------------------------------
The Old-Time Radio Digest!
Volume 2002 : Issue 207
A Part of the [removed]!
ISSN: 1533-9289
Today's Topics:
Lets just all get along [ gad4@[removed] ]
"Military History"magazine -HELP! [ Howard Blue <khovard@[removed]; ]
RE: mp3 Audio [ "Steven C. Thoburn" <scthoburn@comc ]
RE: mp3 Audio [ "Steven C. Thoburn" <scthoburn@comc ]
Re: mp3, My Kavner/Cartwright Blunde [ John Mayer <mayer@[removed]; ]
OTR and the Simpsons [ "Holm, Chris " <[removed]@delphiau ]
Re: voice tracking [ "Robert M. Bratcher Jr." <bratcher@ ]
Theme restaurants [ Derek Tague <derek@[removed]; ]
Big Baby Jesus Christmas Dragnet [ "Elizabeth Minney" <epminney@wcsonl ]
Mr. President [ Dennis W Crow <DCrow3@[removed] ]
OTR Voicetracking [ Michael Biel <mbiel@[removed]; ]
MP3 Giveaway II [ "Richard Carpenter" <sinatra@raging ]
Trading vs. Copying [ Michael Biel <mbiel@[removed]; ]
Re: I want my MP3 ! [ BryanH362@[removed] ]
Clear Channel: Owning "Clear Channel [ "TIM LONES" <tallones@[removed]; ]
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 15:13:47 -0400
From: gad4@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Lets just all get along
You know, I was thinking. Every year I go to the FOTR convention and have
one of the greatest times around. I love meeting the old stars, I love
seeing fellow otr collectors. And the folks i meet there are some of the
sweetest kindest people I ever met at any show.(believe me, i go to a lot of
shows) Jay Tony and the crew have succeeded brillantly in creating a
positive friendly atmosphere that encourages more to get into otr.
How come, for some strange reason, when we go onto the net there's so much
fighting around us? People saying dealers are bad. People are saying trading
and sharing are bad. People saying ebay is bad. mp3 is bad, tapes are bad,
yak, yak, yak:)
I could write a long letter addressing many of the letters here,stating my
opinion of whose right and wrong. And if this tread continues, maybe i
will;) But you know something? I think maybe we're all wrong for not
getting along more. If someone does something legitimately wrong, thats one
thing. If someone is criticizing someone's preference, Im not sure if we're
doing the right way.
I believe right and wrong should be independent of the format one prefers
and it shouldnt even be mentioned in such discussions. Some might like to
download mp3s, some might like to buy mp3 cds, some might like to collect
reels, some might like to collect cassettes, some like to collect
transcription disks, some might like to rent 1st generation disks.
We're in a state of the hobby that there is something out there for
everyones taste. Instead of bickering over preference, lets make room for
everyone. Instead of being concerned with other's collections and saying
theirs is less, lets focus on enjoying ours and each enjoying otr in our own
way. Lets try to rekindle that spirit of love and fellowship that we see at
the conventions here. There's enough for all of us:)
George
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 15:19:08 -0400
From: Howard Blue <khovard@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: "Military History"magazine -HELP!
for a footnote for my book, Words at War, I would appreciate hearing from
anyone who has any copy of Military History, a magazine. -
please e-mail me off line.
Thanks
Howard Blue
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 15:20:32 -0400
From: "Steven C. Thoburn" <scthoburn@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: RE: mp3 Audio
One of the things I have not seen mentioned is the fact that mp3's can be
UNcompressed into wav files, which can then be burned as a standard CD Audio
disk. I have done this successfully for my mom, so she can listen to some
of her favorite shows in her car CD player. I use a program called Remixer,
available from
[removed]
I believe that the quality is improved somewhat, but substantial
hearing-loss on my part leads me to ask if any others out there have tried
it, and do they see an improvement. (If you haven't tried it, why not do so
and let me know!)
I do know the playback rate on one file I checked went from 32 kbps (mp3),
to 352 kbps (wav), and the "static-ish" background noise I heard in the mp3
was reduced.
I Welcome Your Thoughts,
Steve
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 15:20:44 -0400
From: "Steven C. Thoburn" <scthoburn@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: RE: mp3 Audio
I was checking Remixer's web site
[removed]
to make sure I had the URL right (I did), and found another program to
convert Real Audio (ra, rma) files to wav. They can then be ripped to mp3
and played on your portable player.
Handy, Huh?
Steve
(No, I do not work for, nor own stock in, Remixer!)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 15:21:12 -0400
From: John Mayer <mayer@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Re: mp3, My Kavner/Cartwright Blunder
"Ian Grieve" <ian@[removed]; commented:
How does mp3 sharing hurt the hobby and make shows dry up?
Because someone will sell them on e-bay is the usual answer.
Of course, there's nothing to stop someone from buying a clean show from
a professional dealer and then selling the show on eBay as analog cd's
or any other format. The investment in the original show is small, the
sound quality is better than any mp3 they could have downloaded, and
they will receive favorable ratings from their customers that will
encourage others to buy from them. Mp3 is little different from the
cassette technology that preceded it on that score, save for the far
greater ease of exchange.
* *******************
Thanks to all who chastised me for my carelessness in attributing the
voice of Bart Simpson to Julie Kavner. I should have known better than
to shoot from the hip, especially when going off half-coked - sorry,
that should have been "half-cocked" - in this group. I had hoped I'd be
allowed a little leeway in my research when speaking of the lesser
electronic medium.
As several correspondents pointed out, it is actually Nancy Cartwright
who does his voice. I was wrong about the lad's age, too, as indicated
by the title of Ms. Cartwright's autobiography, _My Life as a
Ten-Year-Old Boy_. To stay on topic, Ms. Cartwright was trained by
well-known voice coach Daws Butler who did some radio in its latter
years, including a couple of shows he did with Stan Freberg. In true
radio fashion she does multiple voices, all of them boys, on the show:
Tod Flanders, Nelson the bully, and Ralph the ungifted son of the police
chief as well as Bart. A far, far funnier and much better written show
than TV Guide's choice for best show of all time _Seinfeld_. (Don't get
that one at all; maybe that's why I don't bother buying even one copy of
TV Guide, let alone all four "collectors' editions" with the four
different covers. [No wonder the starving masses of the world hate us!])
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 16:19:59 -0400
From: "Holm, Chris " <[removed]@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: OTR and the Simpsons
In #206, Rick Keating writes:
One great thing about the Simpsons is that it
offers tips of the hat to various aspects of
popular culture over the decades. I wouldn't
be surprised if somewhere along the way, there
was a tip of the hat to OTR.
I believe there have been several OTR references. The one that comes
immediately to mind is one of the Halloween episodes, where Marge tells a
bored Bart that he should listen to the War of the Worlds rebroadcast on
public radio. Bart is not interested.
-Chris Holm
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 16:37:10 -0400
From: "Robert M. Bratcher Jr." <bratcher@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Re: voice tracking
KRTS (a Houston area classical music station) uses voice tracking for 95%
of the broadcast day except for morning & evening drive time slots. Even
the concert shows are fed into the automation system.
How do I know? One of the announcers told me when I met him in person a
couple months ago. The guy who does Midnight Till Dawn (a 7 hour show) is
asleep while his show is aired. Besides sometimes I hear a "stuck" CD go on
& on until the piece is normally over and then the recorded announcer comes
back on with what we just heard along with whatever else he/she has to say
before a commercial or the next selection is played. I guess the CD's are
in some kind of rack player system.
Interesting topic but not quite [removed]
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 16:47:01 -0400
From: Derek Tague <derek@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: Theme restaurants
Jell-O Again;
I was wondering if somebody out there can answer this query: did there
ever exist somewhere in this country a theme-restaurant or saloon dedicated
to OTR. You know, dishes named after OTR characters, re-creations every
Saturday, 1940s music on the jukebox, etc. I'm not holding my breath waiting
for this ever to happen realising that the corporate types who back
theme-restaurants would probably not think the "demographics" were there (much
like mainstream book publishers who nowadays won't touch OTR). Did anybody
ever try this in the 70s or 80s?
Of course, the perfect name would be "Duffy's Tavern."
Yours in the ether,
Derek
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 18:54:01 -0400
From: "Elizabeth Minney" <epminney@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Big Baby Jesus Christmas Dragnet
Someone on the list wrote of Harry Bartell's portrayal of the priest on
the "Big Baby Jesus" Christmas episode of Dragnet. I suddenly
remembered a video of Christmas shows from the "golden age" of
television given to me a long time ago. I had never watched it.
Wonder of all wonders, it included this very Dragnet program! So I got
to see Mr. Bartell in person for the first time! I recognized him from
a still photo I had seen, and his voice identified him as well
(although it was much muted on television--didn't have quite that
distinctive ring to it).
There was an unexpected bonus in that same show: I recognized Ralph
Moody solely by his voice. I had never seen pictures of Mr. Moody, but
his voice was instantly identifiable--without question. He played the
crotchety proprietor of a store selling religious objects. Herb Vigran
appeared as well, but I don't know his voice as well as those of Mr.
Bartell and Mr. Moody.
It was a treat to see Mr. Bartell acting--he made an elegant priest.
One other comment: is it the black and white filming which does
this, or is it my imagination, but nearly all the actors on that
particular show had exceptionally brilliant eyes. (Perhaps Jack Webb
chose his cast for their arresting ([removed]) [removed])
Elizabeth Minney
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 22:20:13 -0400
From: Dennis W Crow <DCrow3@[removed];
To: OTR Digest <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: Mr. President
One of my favorite Sunday programs when I was growing up was "Mr.
President." Every week I received a new history lesson and a tantalizing
mystery. Who was Edward Arnold portraying this week? The show's research
unearthed new stories of our elected leaders, and was the subject of our
conversation around the dinner table whenever we all had listened to it.
SPERDVAC's archive lists several programs. The ones I have recently
listened to have held up well.
I am wondering how many folks remember this show? And did its six year run
feature ALL of the Presidents?
Dennis Crow
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 22:23:05 -0400
From: Michael Biel <mbiel@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: OTR Voicetracking
Just like Roger Lorette commented, "Voice Tracking" is a new term to me
also. I had never heard of it until a couple of months ago when one of
my audio production students asked for my comments. When he described
what he meant, I told him that there was nothing new about it--it was a
technique that was done even back in the 1960s for tape automation. One
guy could record all the announcements for an entire 24 hours of
programming in about a half hour. What was different--so I thought--was
just that it is now being done on computer.
Well, just last week I spotted an article in the Feb 27, 2002 Lexington
Herald Leader that was in a pile of papers I was tossing out.
Apparently it was this story, written by Wall Street Journal writer Anna
Wilde Mathews, that my student had seen--but I had not. It explained a
NEW wrinkle to the old automation scheme. Group owners are now using
this technique to share announcements among a few of their stations but
maintain local angles. Every so often the announcer will do a break
with set of variations for each of the stations he is being heard on.
Just enough to trick the listener into thinking that the DJ in their
city. It is THIS aspect of the technique that warrents the use of the
relatively new term "voicetracking".
These shows are not always done in advance--sometimes the announcer is
doing the show live in one city but also sending down occasional
split-announcements to the other cities. A sidebar article by our local
paper's writers, Heather Svokos and Karla Dooley, informed me that one
of my former students, longtime WKQQ Lexington personality Tony Tilford,
was actually now based in Dayton, Ohio, but still is also being heard on
his old Lexington station via voicetracking. 20 years ago I had drummed
"LOCALISM!!!" into his head, and I suppose he is doing split-tracks to
make his show locally oriented for both Dayton and Lexington--and maybe
also a few other cities. (I'd give him a call and ask him--if I could
figure out where the hell to find him!)
But since these programs ARE sometimes done live, there WOULD be someone
somewhere that might be able to react to an important breaking news
story--a worry brought up by Dan Hughes. But most of these music-only
stations have not done any news for many years, so unless it is
something like the WTC attack they would not interrupt the music
anyway. (On 9/11 many of these group-owned stations simulcast the same
news on all of their stations, feeding them from the news oriented
station in their mix of formats.)
But then I pondered as to why I had never heard the term "voicetracking"
when I suddenly realized that all they had done was make a verb out of
the old term "Voice Track". This goes back way into the OTR era.
Several of the syndicated music library services in the 1930s and 40s
would distribute voice track discs that would have a series of unrelated
comments by one of their name band leaders that the DJ could drop in to
make it seem "almost live". Back in the 1960s we used to make fun of a
voice track disc of bandleader Blue Baron that was from an old
Lang-Worth transcription. (These are different from the interview discs
that would have recorded celebrity answers to a printed list of
questions. Those were also great fun to fool around with!)
But what about the original concept of an announcer pre-recording his
voice tracks for a program? Who first thought that up? Might I suggest
a candidate? Dave Garroway. At the Northwestern archive of NBC Chicago
recordings we had a number of discs for his "11:60 Club" that contained
only the announcements. This was a 60 minute DJ show he did at 11 PM on
WMAQ in the late 1940s, and occasionally if he had a schedule conflict
he would record his voice tracks and leave that disc with the
appropriate pile of records with the engineer. This allowed the music
to be heard directly off the original 78s, and he could do the show in
about 15 minutes at a convenient time. He just had to be very careful
about timing his announcements so the program would run the proper
length. I think that there were occasional notes or a cue sheet in with
some of the discs because I seem to remember some warning comments if
there might be a problem with a record or if one of the announcements
had to be skipped because of a flub.
I have absolutely no evidence that Dave Garroway invented this
procedure, but can anyone come up with an earlier candidate?
Michael Biel mbiel@[removed]
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 22:20:28 -0400
From: "Richard Carpenter" <sinatra@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: MP3 Giveaway II
The Great Gunsmoke Giveaway continues. To the first person who e-mails
me, I'll send an MP3 CD-ROM containing about 70 "Gunsmoke" shows, from
August of 1953 to December of 1954. Ready ... set ... e-mail!
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 22:23:26 -0400
From: Michael Biel <mbiel@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Trading vs. Copying
From: "Jackie" <jaxntom@[removed];
There isn't anything illegal in trading otr. People trade comic books,
cars, tools, etc. That's no different than trading otr and no one will
go to jail for trading anything. Just my 2 cents [removed] Tom
Sorry, Tom, but there IS a difference. When you are trading the comic
books, cars, and tools, you are trading the ORIGINAL OBJECT. Most of
the time when OTR is "traded", you make a NEW COPY and keep your
original copy. It is the COPYING that is illegal if the item is under
copyright. If you made a facsimile copy of the comic book, kept one and
sold or gave away the other, that WOULD be illegal if the book was still
under copyright. You have put an additional copy into circulation, and
only the copyright holder has the right to do that.
Michael Biel mbiel@[removed]
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 23:47:32 -0400
From: BryanH362@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Re: I want my MP3 !
X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative
X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain
06-05-2002
I wanted to be the one who would come out and say it ----I like MP3 !
There are many who decry the lousy quality of MP3 . These folks remind me of
the radio networks in the 30' s who were proclaiming so loudly " the sound
quality of transcriptions is inferior to live programming" when in fact the
'canned shows' ,as transcriptions were often referred to, often had
superior sound quality to what was coming off the network line. This was
particularly true if the station was a rural one at the end of the network
line. On the same note MP3 is just not as bad as some make it out to be .
Oh sure I have heard some really bad MP3 .On the same token I have heard some
pretty bad reel to reel and cassette recorded OTR as well.
Since I have some OTR shows on MP3 that sound fabulous I realize that
getting quality sound from MP3 is not impossible. It's just that too
many people take little care in what they are dumping on to MP3 discs. I
have experienced the same lack of care when hearing what others have quickly
and carelessly recorded enmasse on to reel to reel and also on to cassettes
as well. MP3 is no different its just that with MP3 it is vastly too easy
for some to widely disburse multiple programs without any care as to the
quality . But just as there is a lot of lack of quality out there in MP3 land
there is also some pretty decent stuff as well. Most of it may not be the
remastered sound but lets face it not all of us can afford to be purists. I
love Jack Benny , Suspense , Fibber McGee and Molly , Escape , Phil Harris
and Alice Faye and many more AND I love to listen to the shows regularly.
To listen to regularly you need to have a standing collection . Boy, under
the old methods of collecting this would cost thousands and thousands of
dollars ( who could afford that ) not to mention the storage space to have
all these shows. MP3 is simply convenient and saves dollars. Even If the
quality is not quite as good it's still a fair swap in many people's minds.
Another real plus with MP3 is its portabillity. I don't know how many times
I would leave town and want to take some OTR shows with me. Usually I would
take a few tapes and hope that the few shows I chose would be the shows I
would be in the mood to listen to when the time came. With MP3 I can easily
choose from hundreds of shows by just taking a few discs. It's great.
And don't think for one moment that long time radio fans are not into MP3 or
that MP3 people do not contribute to the hobby . I belong to a few radio
clubs (REPS, SPERDVAC , NARA ) and also belong to the IJBFC , the Radio
Memories tape library and this Digest . I have also purchased from many of
the dealers . In fact I purchased the entire Escape series on cassette from a
dealer . That was a few dollars you can be sure. Quite often in the circle
of friends I have from among the local OTR club I still keep hearing people
talking about MP3 and they seem to be pleased with it for the most part and
not at all in agreement with what is often ranted about on this board. These
folks who appreciate MP3 as I do tend to stay with a few reliable MP3
dealers . And I can assure you that many of these people who have MP3 are
quite involved in the OTR hobby, the clubs and OTR preservation .
To suggest those who collect MP3 are just internet freeloaders with no long
term love for the hobby is simply untrue. it's time for a reality check.
-Bryan
*** This message was altered by the server, and may not appear ***
*** as the sender intended. ***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 09:15:08 -0400
From: "TIM LONES" <tallones@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: Clear Channel: Owning "Clear Channel" statioms
Lee:,
Clear Channel Owns Many of the so called "Clear Channel" AM radio
stations, including:
WTAM 1100 Cleveland
WLW 700 Cincinnati
WOAI 1200 San Antonio
I'm sure there are many others. Their plan seems to be getting as many
Major AM stations as possible in as many cities. s they can(Just in Ohio
they own WSPD 1370 Toledo, WKBN 570 Youngstown, and WTVN 610 [removed]
Major "Heritage" AM stations.) All have news talk on them and essentially
sound the [removed] the FM side just to get as may signals and formats as
possible and "Cluster" them in populated areas which is where
"voicetracking" comes in. Makes for very homogenized, boring sounding radio.
I am glad for the internet, where at least there can be something
interesting to listen to if one takes the time to [removed] OTR, for
[removed]
Tim Lones
Canton, Ohio
--------------------------------
End of [removed] Digest V2002 Issue #207
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