------------------------------
The Old-Time Radio Digest!
Volume 01 : Issue 160
A Part of the [removed]!
ISSN: 1533-9289
Today's Topics:
Paula Winslowe [DanHaefele@[removed] ]
Some Ask 'Why"; Others Ask 'Why Not? ["Stephen A Kallis, Jr." <skallisjr@]
And the Trivia Goes [removed] [Dennis W Crow <DCrow3@[removed]]
Re: Scripts at the LOC [Elizabeth McLeod <lizmcl@[removed]]
OTR Notables in NORTH x NORTHWEST ["stephen jansen" <stephenjansen@ema]
Trains in OTR [Jim Widner <jwidner@[removed]; ]
Looking for Command Performance ["Robert Paine" <macandrew@[removed]]
T-Shirts ["A. Joseph Ross" <lawyer@[removed].]
APOLOGY ["Owens Pomeroy" <opomeroy@[removed]; ]
Frank Lovejoy and FBI ["Ryan Osentowski" <rosentowski@neb.]
A Tee-Shirt Afterthought ["Stephen A Kallis, Jr." <skallisjr@]
Re:WOTW/COPYRIGHTS [Michael Biel <mbiel@[removed]; ]
olan, les, edw binns, and memorial d [leonardfass@[removed] (Leonard Fass]
Re: Les Tremaine [Cnorth6311@[removed] ]
Johnny Dollar theme ["nemesis" <nemesis@[removed]; ]
Grand Central Station [William L Murtough <k2mfi@[removed];]
BOB HOPE'S 98TH. BIRTHDAY ["Owens Pomeroy" <opomeroy@[removed]; ]
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 18:34:07 -0400
From: DanHaefele@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Paula Winslowe
Dennis Crow commented:
Paula Winslowe was mentioned by Martin Grams. As important as she was
to
radio and early television, I am surprised that more attention was not paid
to her passing. Weren't there some special circumstances, which resulted in
her death not being known for some time, or is my memory failing me?
No, your memory is accurate. When she died, her family never notified
the press. I was SPERDVAC's newsletter editor at the time and got wind of it
when her newsletter came back marked "deceased." When I attempted to
telephone her, I found her number had already been re-issued. I went to the
security apartment building where she lived and was told she had moved out
several months earlier and also learned the rental (or lease, can't recall
which) contract had been signed by her son. The last time I talked to Paula
I offered to bring her to a SPERVAC meeting when we were going to have three
guests who had frequently worked with her. She declined, saying her health
kept her home a lot. Actor Herb Ellis contacted AFTRA for us, and he was
told that she had died. I checked the records death in Los Angeles County,
under her married and professional names, but came up with nothing so I
suspect her son took her to his home out of state. I also checked with her
friend, actress Helen Kleeb and she, too, was concerned because she had heard
nothing from Paula. I don't mean to sound like I'm bragging when I say the
article I did in SPERDVAC's Radiogram might have been the closest thing to an
obituary published after her passing. It's sad that, given her contibutions
to rado, tv and film, she didn't get her just notice. But I can't fault the
news media because I don't believe anyone contacted them.
Off topic, my sincere thanks to the many individuals who offered Johnny
Dollar shows to replace some poor quality copies in SPERDVAC's library. I've
accepted one offer and truly appreciate the others. You're a great group!
Dan Haefele
DanHaefele@[removed]
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 21:08:01 -0400
From: "Stephen A Kallis, Jr." <skallisjr@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Some Ask 'Why"; Others Ask 'Why Not?'
Speaking of radio scripts, and in particular the script of War Of The
Worlds, available over the Internet, Owend Pomeroy asks,
[I]f those scripts on the list have copyrights, then why are they there
for you, me or anyone else tp print out and recreate? <<
Perhaps this is because reading, printing out, and recreating any play
are separate things. When I was in my early teens, and already was a
Science Fiction fan, one of the paperback anthologies I bought had the
script of the War Of The Worlds radio program included. Although I
didn't pay too much attention to it, I did notice that the script had
some sort of copyright notice on its credit page. Now I don't believe
that anyone at the book publisher thought for a second that anyone was
going to put on a recreation of the program from the book. So why was it
included?
In my opinion, there were two reasons. One was that the show was a
milestone in Science Fiction, and many younger readers never heard it.
The script would provide them with some perspective when the show and its
effect were mentioned. The second reason is related: it's like having a
Shakespearean play in an English Literature textbook. It's worth
studying. Even for the reader who was not an aficionado of Science
Fiction might want to peruse it for its literary effect.
Now as it happens, it's relatively easy to get a recorded copy of WOTW
these days, but that doesn't exclude looking at the script for study.
Indeed, in some cases, reading the script along with listening to the
recording could be enlightening to a student of radio, of drama, and/or
of popular culture.
Reiterating again that I'm not a lawyer, I suspect that if a class read
an OTR script solely within the class -- without guests -- as a study
project, there wouldn't be any problem about copyright. However, if
performing it for an audience outside the class would almost certainly be
another matter.
Stephen A. Kallis, Jr.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 21:07:59 -0400
From: Dennis W Crow <DCrow3@[removed];
To: OTR Digest <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: And the Trivia Goes [removed]
Thanks to Jim Stokes for inspiring me to send this post. His parenthetical
observations regarding the cast of " North by Northwest" sprung me into
action.
At least two of the minor cast members were married to actors--Josephine
Hutchinson eventually married Staats Cotsworth, star of "Casey, Crime
Photographer," and Philip Ober had been formerly married to Vivian Vance
("Ethel Mertz"). Ober also worked for the American Consuls' office in
Guadalajara.
Philip Coolidge was, indeed, an outstanding character actor, as Jim notes.
His best role, in my view, was in William Castle's bizarre film, "The
Tingler." Coolidge literally stole the movie from Vincent Price.
Dennis Crow
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 21:07:57 -0400
From: Elizabeth McLeod <lizmcl@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: Re: Scripts at the LOC
Owens Pomeroy suggests,
What it really boils down to is this: In order for these scripts to really
have their copyrights hold-up, a copy of each script that was performed
along with a recording of the show, would have to be filed with the Library
of Congress or the Copyright Office. Can you imaqgine just how much space
that would have taken up?
Not that much, actually. Most of the radio scripts acquired thru
copyright deposits are stored by the LOC on microfilm. The entire first
decade of "Amos 'n' Andy, comprising over ten thousand pages, is stored
on nine small reels of 35mm film, and my personal copies fit neatly into
an 8" x 9" x 4" niche on my office bookshelf. While not everything held
by the LOC in the way of scripts is on microfilm, enough is to indicate
that whatever problems might be involved with storing these materials,
they really don't take up much physical space. The real problem is in
microfilming everything that needs to be microfilmed -- there are still
vast amounts of OTR paper in deep storage at Copyright Office warehouses
that have yet to go under the camera. (I was advised last summer that the
entire run of "Sam and Henry" scripts had been unearthed in such a
warehouse, essentially untouched since 1927, and the person who asked me
about them wasn't entirely sure what they were. No telling what else
lurks on those [removed])
Without getting into the whole distinction of
registered-versus-common-law-copyright which has been thrashed about here
in the past, it's also important to point out that there was never any
OTR-era requirement that a recording of a program be submitted along with
the script in order to register copyright. Had this been true, how much
easier all of our work would be.
Elizabeth
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 23:13:02 -0400
From: "stephen jansen" <stephenjansen@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: OTR Notables in NORTH x NORTHWEST
There IS another OTR notable in Hitchcock's film "North By Northwest".
He was also in "Psycho", "Cape Fear", "Vertigo", and "The Wrong Man", among
other Hitchcock films. Obviously the person I'm talking about was a
favorite of Hitch's, or he wouldn't have been in so many of his films. HOW
MANY OF YOU CAN GUESS WHO I MEAN?
Stephen Jansen
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 23:13:25 -0400
From: Jim Widner <jwidner@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Trains in OTR
David Chamberlain asked about trains in OTR. Here are a couple of items
from digests of the past that I found on this subject:
"I would like to obtain some recordings of "Train Time" and/or " The Yellow
Cab Storyteller". I believe they were done in the late forties. "Train
Time" featured a host -?Hal Sawyer? - interviewing everyday people as they
were traveling on famous trains, such as the Golden State Limited. "
"I just finished listening to the Suspense episode "Wreck of the Old '97"
and I got to thinking of the impact of trains on Old Time Radio as a plot
device. I started thinking of all OTR involving trains. Show openings
like Mysterious Travelers and Damon Runyon, as well as story lines.
There's an episode of the Shadow "Giant of Madras", "the Lost Special ",
"Orient Express" on ESCAPE, even in the Mysterious Traveler "Locomotive
Ghost" the train is almost a character. I'm probably missing a lot but
others I could think of
"Bury, Your Dead Arizona" on I LOVE A MYSTERY
"Death Pays the Freight" on INNER SANCTUM"
Jim Widner
jwidner@[removed]
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 29 May 2001 01:19:27 -0400
From: "Robert Paine" <macandrew@[removed];
To: "OTR Digest" <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: Looking for Command Performance
I'm looking for a clip of Yogi Yorgesson (Harry Stewart) on Command
Performance. He appeared around 1944 or 1945 and performed his Swedish
mystic routine. If anyone has the show, I'd like to get a copy to forward to
a guy who is documenting Harry Stewart's career.
Macandrew
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 29 May 2001 01:19:25 -0400
From: "A. Joseph Ross" <lawyer@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: T-Shirts
Date: Sun, 27 May 2001 20:51:53 -0400
From: "Stephen A Kallis, Jr." <skallisjr@[removed];
2) There is a difference between copyright and trademark. As I've been
told, copyright protects intellectual property ([removed], a writer's work),
but it can't protect something in general use such as a phrase like,
"Great scott!"
A lot depends on the show, who owns the rights, and how much trouble they
want to go to over it. I understand that Disney will go after anyone they
find out about who is using the likenesses of their characters. Some
others aren't as worried about small-scale fan use. Some otr shows may be
in the public domain. Others are still under copyright, owned by someone
who may or may not be interested in going after someone making a few T-
shirts. It's probably not a good idea to put the likeness of any living
person on a T-shirt without their permission -- major political figures
excepted, not so much because of legalities, but because they wouldn't
want the bad publicity of trying to stop you.
A phrase in
combination with an image specifically related to a show, Such as "Who
was that masked man?" and a domino mask might infringe a trademark.
Naturally, a show name, such as, "The Adventures of Sam Spade" could be
covered by trademark.
Trade marks are complicated by the fact that they must continue to be used
in some way, or the right is lost. So, unless someone is using Sam Spade
in some way, it may be perfectly safe to use it. But you can't always
know when someone is using a trade mark. The estate of Arthur Conan Doyle
continues to maintain trademark rights in the name "Sherlock Holmes" and
probably a number of other characters and phrases associated with the
character. They still use the trademark, to the extent that they get
payments from people who want to license it. I understand that when "Star
Trek: The Next Generation" used Sherlock Holmes as a holodeck character,
they heard from the Conan Doyle estate. NBC licenses a limited amount of
Howdy Doody merchandise each year, just to maintain the trademark rights.
Hypothetically, one should be able to
name an automobile tire a Coke and apply for a trademark: a tire is not a
soft drink.
As a matter of fact, in the 1950s, I remember hearing ads on the radio for
"New England Coke," which was coal for home heating fuel (in those days,
there were homes heated with coal.). I also remember that there were
Galaxy Cigarettes, which was no relation to Galaxy Science Fiction
Magazine or a Ford Galaxie.
RSI can't copyright that _idea_.
In fact, no idea can be copyrighted. Copyright only covers a particular
expression of an idea.
A. Joseph Ross, [removed] [removed]
15 Court Square lawyer@[removed]
Boston, MA 02108-2503 [removed]~lawyer/
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 29 May 2001 10:22:20 -0400
From: "Owens Pomeroy" <opomeroy@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: APOLOGY
I would like to apologize to Michael and anyone else who was misled by my
last posting. I was only speaking as a layman and the expierence I have had
with scripts performing them for almost 30 years in our OTR Club without any
"feedback". Sorry, Michael if I opened a can of worms.
It must be like the radio shows circulating in libraries: You don't know
which ones to keep and which ones to scrap, because somebody may lay claim
to them. What can we do? I am not about to answer that one, considering.
Owens Pomeroy
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 29 May 2001 10:22:22 -0400
From: "Ryan Osentowski" <rosentowski@[removed];
To: "old time radio" <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: Frank Lovejoy and FBI
Hi all,
Someone recently mentioned, "The FBI in Peace and War." I have two episodes
of this program and I like it. I much prefer it to, "This is Your FBI,"
which seems pretty bloated and pretentious. I'd like to get more programs
of, "FBI in Peace and War." Does anyone know a good source?
Also, I know that Frank Lovejoy was a movie actor as well as radio. Could
someone please Email me privately and tell me some of his film work? I
would be curious to know what Lovejoy looked like. I am a blind person so
I've never seen his picture.
Thanks in advance.
RyanO
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 29 May 2001 10:22:11 -0400
From: "Stephen A Kallis, Jr." <skallisjr@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: A Tee-Shirt Afterthought
As someone who lived through the OTR of the 1940s and early 1950s, I'm
bemused that iconically, OTR is almost invariably the image of a
cathedral radio. To me, a more familiar symbol would be a table radio
with a plastic or bakelite case.
Not to suggest that the cathedral-radio image be replaced completely, but
for many of us, a couple of alternate images would be nice, especially on
a tee shirt with an appropriate slogan emanating from it. Perhaps the
ultimate slogan would be, "Tune in tomorrow: same time, same station."
Stephen A. Kallis, Jr.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 29 May 2001 10:22:07 -0400
From: Michael Biel <mbiel@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Re:WOTW/COPYRIGHTS
Both Charlie (and Bill Pfeiffer before him) have repeatedly said that it
is futile for this digest to get bogged down in the copyright issue. I
agree. I am responding only because Charlie said I could try to get
this out of the way because I was named. But remember that none of us
in this discussion are lawyers or legal experts. But I have seen a lot
of these problems that have developed over the years, have attended many
professional conferences where this topic was addressed by the top legal
minds in this field, and have had personal discussions on these specific
questions with friends at LC. (But remember, I ain't a lawyer--and I
don't even play one on TV.) :-)
From: "Owens Pomeroy" <opomeroy@[removed];
In the last posting, Michaell Biehel, said that the Permission
to perform WOTW was a one-time shot. Be that as it may, let's
not nit-pick, Mike.
I wasn't nit-picking. This was a clear case of a gross
misinterpretation of somebody's words which led to a flat-out faulty
statement of advice, saying: "I hope this helps any one who wanted to
produce this show." It didn't. The advice was wrong. The
interpretation of the simple information on the web site was
demonstratively faulty. And this was not a case of a mistaken
memory--the original statement from the web site was right there to be
referred to as the digest posting was written. It should also be
mentioned that this posting in Digest 154 was an apparent follow-up to
David L. Easter's 151 objection to an earlier posting in 150 which had
read: "To Fred Owens: Do not worry about performing WOTW for your school
group. Our OTR Club has been doing it for many years as our Haloween
Theme Meeting. ... We also just performed a Fred Allen Show last
Saturday Night. Owens Pomeroy" So that is twice that this dangerously
inaccurate information had been stated.
I am sure that the (non-profit) organizations that want to
perform this script, will have sense enough to contact their
"Legal Eagles," to find out what has to be done.
This was not even hinted at in either of the two postings.
These organizations, such as Garry Yoggy's are not that naieve
as to think they could do something illegal.
Some of them ARE that naive. Perhaps even one which admittedly has
repeatedly performed WOTW on many Halloweens and recently performed a
Fred Allen program.
And finally, if those scripts on the list have copyrights, then
why are they there for you, me or anyone else tp print out and
recreate? Maybe even dealers have copied them and sold them,
either on the internet or at OTR Conventions.
The fact that the scripts are there on the internet is pretty much the
same as the fact that the recordings of OTR programs have been copied
and recopied and traded and sold for many years by many people. Just
because it is done doesn't mean that it is legal. There is a lot that
is illegally posted on the net and sold at conventions. Right now the
government seems to be most concerned with kiddie-porn, hence the recent
bust of Americans and Russians allegedly in this business. But that is
a different type of law--it is not related to copyright, and the
government itself can take action to stop the practice. But where
copyright is concerned the Government is NOT a protector of copyrights,
only the register of the copyrights. The individual copyright owners
have to be the ones to set the prosecution in motion, not the
government. In the sound recording and movie fields the Recording
Industry Association of America (RIAA) and the International Association
of Phonograms and Videograms (IFPI) have acted as collective agents for
copyright holders and have initiated actions against counterfeiters,
pirates, and bootleggers of commercial recordings. I have seen some of
these raids at flea markets and record conventions. (In one case here
in Kentucky, the dealer who ran the record convention was enjoined from
running conventions in that court's jurisdiction for five years.) It
COULD happen at OTR conventions--IF the copyright holders know about the
violations and IF they care to go to the expense of initiating suits.
There IS one party in the OTR field that just might be willing to do
so. That it hasn't happened yet doesn't mean that it won't. And if the
copyright holders of some scripts find out about the postings, these
postings also might be enjoined.
What it really boils down to is this: In order for these scripts
to really have their copyrights hold-up, a copy of each script
that was performed along with a recording of the show, would have
to be filed with the Library of Congress or the Copyright Office.
Can you imaqgine just how much space that would have taken up?
Owens Pomeroy
Yes I can imagine it--I've seen it. The Library of Congress is three
HUGE buildings in the city plus at least one very large storage area in
the suburban [removed] area. And they are converting the Culpepper,
Virginia, cold-war era shelter (that would have housed the WW III
government) into the storage facilities for the million or so sound
recordings they already have. But there are several things you must
remember. Because sound recordings themselves were not copyrightable
before 1972, only the scripts would have been necessary for copyright
registration of a radio drama, not the recordings. Secondly, just
because there was a requirement for depositing the printed copies of the
work, that does not mean that LC was required to KEEP the materials. It
ISN'T required to keep everything! Once they have seen the material and
it is registered, that is good enough. (Many years ago I was told that
LC mourns the fact that a decision had been made not to retain the
copyright deposit copies of comic books from the Golden Age--but that
fact didn't invalidate their copyrights.) LC can also decide to
microfilm items instead of maintaining them in their original paper
form. In the overall scheme of things, compared to all the materials LC
holds, the cubic feet of storage area that would be required for one
copy of every OTR-era script in even the original paper form is not all
that huge. There are also the issues of underlying copyrights and
trademarks of characters, etc. which would not require deposits, and
also the common-law copyrights of unpublished materials--and that is
where pre-1972 sound recordings come in. Those from the OTR era will
not be in the public domain until 2056.
Copyright is a complicated issue, and it is dangerous to make and
distribute statements on it--especially when they are based on incorrect
assumptions and misinterpretations of statements. In my original
posting I was not really making my own statement on copyright, I was
pointing out a misinterpretation which led to potentially misleading
advice on copyright. It was not nit-picking--it was a central theme of
the statement--and I was warning the readers to check out the original
web site's original statement so they could see what had really been
said. Thankfully the original URL had been provided--that was a plus.
Michael Biel mbiel@[removed]
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 29 May 2001 11:24:21 -0400
From: leonardfass@[removed] (Leonard Fass)
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: olan, les, edw binns, and memorial day
olan and les were both (but not at the same time) the leads in "first
nighter" as were don and or jim [removed] binns appeared in "the
lark" with julie harris (and boris karloff?) in a little theater not off
times sq but in central city,colorado; the theater was so little (true)
that when he bit into an onion the aroma drifted around the theater. and
a world war II memorial is needed in [removed] but not where it will ruin the
mall, please write your senator and anyone else [removed] and the
connection:::: when we remember the soldiers we remember the radio
programs also.
[removed]
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 29 May 2001 11:24:18 -0400
From: Cnorth6311@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Re: Les Tremaine
I'm sure all of you already know about this site, but in case there are some
who don't, if you ever have a question about whether some one played in a
certain movie or not, log onto [removed] and just type in the name of the
person you are looking for, and bingo, there it is. This site has saved my
bacon several times. While your there checking out Les Tremaine look at his
movie and [removed] credits. Very impressive.
Charlie
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 29 May 2001 13:50:26 -0400
From: "nemesis" <nemesis@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: Johnny Dollar theme
I know that Richard Aurandt wrote the Johnny Dollar theme, but that doesn't
help. The music is so familiar that it's driving me crazy trying to
remember where I've heard it before. It almost sounds like a classical
piece. Can anyone put a name or source to the theme?
Linda T.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 29 May 2001 14:08:03 -0400
From: William L Murtough <k2mfi@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Grand Central Station
Mention was made about Grand Central Station, a daytime Saturday program
on CBS. At one point in time I was the engineer on that show originating
at my home away from home, CBS Playhouse #2 just off Times Square. Ira
Ashley was the director. Martin Horrell was the producer.
There was an inconsistancy in the opening. It used the sound of a steam
locomotive pulling the train into Grand Central Station. The New York
Central trains exchanged the steam locomotives for electrics at Harmon,
along the Hudson River. I am not sure where the New Haven line made the
change, possibly New Haven. Even though this inconsistancy was pointed
out to the producers, they would not change the opening.
Forseeing some criticism, New York bound New Haven trains operated into
Grand Central. Their through trains ( Boston to Washington) used
Pennsylvania station.
Grand Central Station was one of many shows that I really enjoyed doing.
Ken Roberts was the commercial announcer. I sure miss seeing him at OTR
conventions.
I would like to take this opportunity to pay homage to the wonderful
stage crew I had at that theater (being that it was a legitamate theater
they were bound by an [removed] contract): Amos Bond, George O'Malley,
Joe Rocks, and Bill Young. They were gems. One day I arrived for the
initial broadcast of a Frankie Laine show with Freddy Martin's orchestra.
The sponsor was U. S. Savings Bonds. The stage was already set up. Amos
realized that I was unhappy with arrangement and explained that the
agency rep, who as usual had a "snoot full", had ordered it . The crew
then tore it down and did it my way. ( I always preferred to have the
piano and bass fiddle to my left, facing the stage, so that I could mike
them together. In a dance band they are both considered rhythm
instruments, except when the piano has a solo, otherwise the pianist
plays "boop de boop" ). I will proably hear from some musicians, but as
Walter would say, "that's the way it was".
"So long untiil tomorrow"
Bill Murtough
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 29 May 2001 14:42:31 -0400
From: "Owens Pomeroy" <opomeroy@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: BOB HOPE'S 98TH. BIRTHDAY
Today is Bob Hope's 98th. Birthday. Let us all send him an email
Birthday card and tell himm "Thanks For The Memories" His email address is:
<hopejan@[removed]
=====>Owens Pomeroy
--------------------------------
End of [removed] Digest V01 Issue #160
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