Subject: [removed] Digest V2002 #320
From: "OldRadio Mailing Lists" <[removed]@[removed];
Date: 8/14/2002 9:01 AM

To: <[removed]@[removed];

    ------------------------------

                                The Old-Time Radio Digest!
                                  Volume 2002 : Issue 320
                             A Part of the [removed]!
                                     ISSN: 1533-9289

                                     Today's Topics:

      australian OTR Question               [ "Jamie Kelly" <[removed]@[removed] ]
      Schedules/ratings                     [ Dancingdays72777@[removed] ]
      Bob Bailey and Laurel and Hardy       [ "Rodney w bowcock jr." <rodney-self ]
      the Magic of Charlie McCarthy         [ "Thomas Mason" <batz34@[removed] ]
      Re: Lessons From History IV           [ Elizabeth McLeod <lizmcl@[removed] ]
      The Ranger and his Ilk                [ wich2@[removed] ]
      OTR Media Icons                       [ "david rogers" <david_rogers@hotmai ]
      THAT Show [removed]                    [ wich2@[removed] ]
      Keep it sweet, Pete                   [ "steven kostelecky" <skostelecky@ho ]
      #OldRadio IRC Chat this Thursday Nig  [ lois@[removed] ]
      Actors and their characters.          [ gad4@[removed] ]
      Riverdale's life partners             [ Ivan G Shreve Jr <iscreve@[removed] ]
      Re: Randy Story.                      [ hal stone <dualxtwo@[removed]; ]
      Artie Shaw                            [ "Tas Richardson" <tasrichardson@spr ]

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 21:10:43 -0400
    From: "Jamie Kelly" <[removed]@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  australian OTR Question

    Further to Ian's comments to Bill's questions in a previous issue of this
    Digest. One man's family was broadcast live on 3XY in Melbourne and was
    based on American scripts. It was broadcast for a number of years from mid
    to late 1930s and was very very popular and everyone who acted in it always
    spoke very fondly of their time spent as part of the serial. It is such a
    shame that no episodes survive of this series.

    I can only follow Ians comments on what a great Read Nancy Lee's book "being
    a chum is fun". I have air-checks of Chaterbox corner and other Nicky and
    Nancy lee material and oh how I wish I could go back 60 years and hear them
    again. Nicky and tuppy hosted the breakfast session on Melbourne station 3AW
    from the early 1930s to the early 1940s, Fred was also the sporting director
    at 3AW for many years and use to call the races as well as hosting many
    other popular sessions. One of Australia's greatest telefision personalities
    Graham Kenedy learnt much of his craft when he got his first big brake in
    radio from Nicky and tributes much of his success to his mentor Nicky.

    Can I say how much I enjoy reading all the issues of the digest and it has
    really opened my eyes to so many of the great personalities and shows that
    came from the US and so much of what we did in Australia was based on what
    was happening in the US added to that most of our drama was adapted from US
    scripts.

    Cheers,

    Jamie Kelly

    Melbourne Australia

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 21:21:21 -0400
    From: Dancingdays72777@[removed]
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Schedules/ratings
    X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative
    X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain

    Hi all! Are there any websites that have sample network radio schedules from
    the '30's through 50's as well as a yearly breakdown of the ratings?

    Thanks,

    Matt

      *** This message was altered by the server, and may not appear ***
      ***                  as the sender intended.                   ***

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 21:49:18 -0400
    From: "Rodney w bowcock jr." <rodney-selfhelpbikeco@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Bob Bailey and Laurel and Hardy

    No use searching your local Blockbuster stores for Jitterbugs or The
    Dancing Masters.  They've never been released to video in the USA (though
    The Dancing Masters is around in the UK).

    I've got both of them if anyone is interested feel free to let me know.

    rodney.

    Past Tense Productions
    Carrying Old Radio related films, and Hal Roach shorts, for $7 per tape.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 22:07:04 -0400
    From: "Thomas Mason" <batz34@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  the Magic of Charlie McCarthy

    As poor a ventriloquest as Edgar Bergen was, he created magic with his
    characters.  Once when Bergen was doing a tv appearance, as he would
    converse with Charlie, his voice was clear as a bell while Charlie was quite
    muffled.  This caused a lot of confusion in the booth until they realized
    that the boom man was turning the mic and pointing it at Charlie instead of
    Bergen each time that Charlie "spoke."  This really brings home how people
    got caught up with the fantasy and regarded Charlie as being a real person
    instead of a dummy manipulated by a ventriloquest.
    Tom Mason

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 22:42:22 -0400
    From: Elizabeth McLeod <lizmcl@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Re: Lessons From History IV

    On 8/13/02 9:13 PM OldRadio Mailing Lists wrote:

>     So somebody, somewhere, was complaining about black people being part of
>     radio even if the individual programs that Elizabeth mentioned were popular.
>     It wasn't just the executives.

    Fred Allen had a very unpleasant brush with these sorts of protesters in
    1940, after heavyweight boxing champion Joe Louis appeared as a guest on
    his program. In the scripted interview, Louis consistently referred to
    Allen as "Fred," defying the then-prevalent racial protocol requiring a
    black man to always call a white man "Mister." Allen received a ration of
    hate mail from the Deep South, condemning him for "allowing a Negro to
    call him Fred on the radio" -- and there's a piece in "Fred Allen's
    Letters" in which he bitterly tells a friend about this incident,
    denouncing the sort of "idiots" or "morons" who would make such
    complaints.

>     I've always suspected that the reason so many of Anderson's bits involved him
>     calling on the phone for Benny was to placate complainers by physically
>     isolating him from the rest of the cast in the context of the program, even
>     if they would all have been at the same microphones in the studio.

    One scene I've always wondered about occured in the "Amos 'n' Andy Show"
    episode of 4/7/44. The Kingfish and Sapphire have had a serious argument,
    and Sapphire is ready to leave her husband for good, when Reverend
    Johnson (played by Ernie Whitman) happens to show up at their apartment,
    and manages to reconcile them by recalling the day he performed their
    wedding ceremony. This scene is sensitively and tenderly played between
    Freeman Gosden and Ernestine Wade -- even to the point of Wade giving out
    with a whispering, romantic "George" at the end. I suspect this may have
    been the first love scene in broadcasting history to have been played out
    before a live studio audience by a white man and a black woman -- and
    even though the white man was playing the role of a black man, he wasn't
    doing so in any sort of costume or makeup. I've often wondered how a 1944
    studio audience really reacted to that scene -- they were stone silent as
    the scene played out, and broke into loud applause at the end.

    Elizabeth

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 22:44:57 -0400
    From: wich2@[removed]
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  The Ranger and his Ilk

    From: "randy story" <bygeorge@[removed];

>     We need more of that thinking in today's world ... I have hopefully learned
>     to look past the so-called faults of others when it is necessary. The Lone
>     Ranger taught me to.

    Dear "Randy", or "George", & [removed]
    What a moving story. And proof again of the eternal worth of these "people
    who never lived, and so can never die" - from the Bard's characters, down
    through such as Holmes & Watson, to Superman & Batman, et. [removed]
    Thanks for the reminder.
    -Craig Wichman

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 22:47:08 -0400
    From: "david rogers" <david_rogers@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  OTR Media Icons

    I am looking for suggestion for media icons with OTR links.  Connected with
    this if you have any Internet links giving information about the icon I
    would greatly appreciate it.
    Next semester I am running a course called "Alternative media icons in the
    English-speaking world".  The course will deal with icons from all medias
    but I would like to include some with radio backgrounds as well.  Let me
    just explain some of the things meant by the title of the course.
    The use of the word "alternative" is used in the sense that they will be
    icons that will have been previously unfamiliar to my Korean students.
    I would also like to emphasise "English-speaking world" so whereas The Goons
    may have been icons in the non-North American English speaking world, their
    use would be limited in America.  Therefore, they must be familiar
    throughout the entire English-speaking world. On this point if anybody has
    any suggestions at all for an Australian icon beyond Crocodile Dundee I
    would like to hear it.
    The use of the phrase "media icon" can be explained this way.  The newspaper
    may say that if George W. Bush thinks that he is The Lone Ranger then Tony
    Blair thinks that he is Tonto.  There is a reputation attached to The Lone
    Ranger that exists beyond the actual show. This reputation immediately comes
    to our mind when we hear the name and so we understand the reference.
    However, many Korean students will not understand the reference, as they are
    unfamiliar with the icon.  Therefore, this course is a bit of an
    introduction to this area so that they can more fully understand references
    in western media.  I hope I have explained that okay.
    The course will run this way. The first section I will lecture on an icon
    that I have chosen and then the students (who will hopefully have previously
    researched this specific icon prior to class) will enter into a discussion
    and Q and A session with me.  The second part of the class the students will
    have to make a presentation on an icon that I have given them and then there
    will be another discussion and Q and A session.  The students that have done
    the report will then have to write a report, which I will then post on the
    web site.  Most of the student's research will by necessity have to be done
    via the Internet.
    Therefore, I am looking for suggestions for icons.  They may be real people
    like Jack Benny or they may be fictional characters like "The Lone Ranger".
    However, it would be nice if there were also some Internet links so that I
    can give my students a bit of a start in their research.  The sites need
    only give information about the shows etc. It will be the student's job to
    draw conclusions about what such figures represent.
    By including some OTR icons, alongside icons from other areas, I hope to
    give the students a bit of an idea of history and a sense that western media
    does not begin and end with what is the most popular thing now.  I also hope
    that they will be able to see that radio once created icons in the same way
    that TV and cinema does now.  However, having said that I want them to deal
    with figures that are still considered icons now and that we will still come
    across mainstream references to them.
    Love as always, David Rogers

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 22:52:22 -0400
    From: wich2@[removed]
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  THAT Show [removed]

    From: PURKASZ@[removed]

>     I seem to recall reading in a Welles Biography that he received a telegram
>     from somebody referring to the fact that the audience was tuned into one
>     'dummy' and then tuned into Welles thus two 'dummies' caused the whole darn
>     ruckus. Does anyone remember the exact words of that telegram and who sent
>     it?

    Michael & [removed]
    I don't think know if this is the telegram you mean, but Franklin Roosevelt
    sent Orson one to the effect of, "Well, since anyone who would fall for your
    gag and panic must be stupid, we can assume that folks with smarts listen to
    Charlie McCarthy!"
    -Craig Wichman

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 23:17:09 -0400
    From: "steven kostelecky" <skostelecky@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Keep it sweet, Pete

    Kudos to Charlie for his comments on civility. And, of course, for having us
    in his home, as it were, the OTR Digest. I have posted several times when I
    felt things were getting out of hand and have received many personal email
    messages thanking me for bringing up the issue of civility amongst each
    other. We are a small family and should not take for granted this great
    forum (and, indeed the Phorums) for us to share and enjoy. I have been to
    other lists, read and posted for awhile and quit because of the tenor of the
    discourse. I encountered Elizabeth McCleod on one and she encouraged me to
    continue just to keep the content on a higher level, but I found the
    swearing and dimwittedness to try my patience and I now keep up with
    Charlie's Digest and Phorums. Again, thanks to Charlie and I would encourage
    everyone to think about supporting the Digest financially if you can, to
    show your enthusiasm and support for our hobby.
    Thanks for listening.
    OTR fans are the best.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 04:52:05 -0400
    From: lois@[removed]
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  #OldRadio IRC Chat this Thursday Night!

    A weekly [removed]

    For the best in OTR Chat, join IRC (Internet Relay Chat), StarLink-IRC
    Network, the channel name is #OldRadio.  We meet Thursdays at 8 PM Eastern
    and go on, and on! The oldest OTR Chat Channel, it has been in existence
    over five years, same time, same channel!

    Our numerous "regulars" include one of the busiest "golden years" actors in
    Hollywood; a sound man from the same era who worked many of the top
    Hollywood shows; a New York actor famed for his roles in "Let's Pretend" and
    "Archie Andrews;" owners of some of the best OTR sites on the Web;
    maintainer of the best-known OTR Digest (we all know who he is)..........

    and Me

    Lois Culver
    KWLK Longview Washington (Mutual) 1941-1944)
    KFI Los Angeles (NBC) 1944 - 1950
    and widow of actor Howard Culver

    (For more info, contact lois@[removed])

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 10:44:42 -0400
    From: gad4@[removed]
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Actors and their characters.

    With all the comments that have been said on the various subjects, its
    really hard to know what to say and to say it in a way that would not come
    across uncaring.   Having just read Randy's letter in Issue 319 though kinda
    put a lump in my throat. I have to say though that Randy probably said it best.

    In this digest, there have been storys both good and bad about certain
    actors. I guess one thing that strikes home is that actors are people.
    People do have faults and inperfections. Some more serious than others.
    What we have come to appreciate and love are the characters they have
    played. These characters are their craation and not them.  These characters
    have an impact on us. They're greater than life. And more important than
    that, they have given us something to look forward to or look up to.

    When you look at kids today, the idea is "reality" programming. Im not
    saying certain issues dont need to be addressed, but Im saying that most
    heroes today are not the perfect characters we knew but rather characters
    made to emphasise the common faults in America. I feel sorry for the kids
    today because their entertainment is not larger than life and it's showing
    them the wrong things to emulate. When I was a kid, I guess you could say I
    watched shows including Superman who stood for "truth justice and the
    american way." Like the Ranger and the rest, they stood for all the good
    thats possible. It gave me more to emulate.  And that helped encourage
    proper values and standards that my parents taught me at home and church. On
    the other hand, today kids have characters that dont go above them. Who the
    writers try to give the kid's faults to thereby giving them less to look up
    to. And that's a shame. Even shows like Jack Benny showed how to be funny
    without relying on dirty jokes.

    In this digest, there were several tales about several actors.  Some perhaps
    are true, some we know definately aren't.

    The Beemer one I think we all know to be untrue. Several issues ago, someone
    related some misinformation as misinformation. I agree the right thing to do
    have done was to intelligently reinforce that it was untrue and go on. Tony
    wrote an excellent letter stating that. But at this point, are we really
    doing any good in keeping it going on? On one level, its reinforcing the
    thought in all our minds. In another, its hurting a person whom I don't
    believe meant it the way most people are interpreting it. Third, its hurting
    the memory of the actor by reinforcing those points (even though we're
    saying they're untrue) and Finally, its hurting the memory of the character
    of the Lone Ranger who would never justify a lynch mob against anyone. When
    someone has to resort to insults, it unfortunately leaves the message,
    "maybe there is something they're trying to hide."  Im hoping we can let it
    rest as Im sure the Ranger would have liked.

    But besides for that blantantly false story, actors in general are just
    that. They're not the charactors they portray but real [removed] just like
    the ones you and I work with perhaps. Each will have certain faults. Some
    will be better/worse than the other. This is just a gut, but I got a feeling
    that the hollywood enviroment probably is guilty of bringing more faults out
    of people than maybe people who worked elsewhere.

    Regarding learning about the actors. I know that I have faults just like
    anyone else. If someone truly cared about me and wanted to know what I was
    like (both good and bad), I would feel honored. If they were trying to find
    the worst thing I ever did and build a picture me based on that, that would
    be a different story. But if somoene wanted to know, how I work, how I eat,
    how I talk to my friends and family, why I felt/acted the way I did, I would
    be honored.  It would be one way of keeping my memory alive (not the part I
    might have played.)  I might be wrong, but I really don't believe a lot of
    these actors really didnt like themselves for who they really were.

    Is it good to learn about the people who played them? I guess that's up to
    the individual and if they can still appreciate their work knowing what
    they're really like.  Lee related a story where he learned about Bob Hope
    and by learning about Bob the person, soured him on his acting. For me, as a
    child before I had a chance to see ARthur's tv show, I listened to a
    recording of Arthur (as a person) which was not the character Arthur from TV
    that many have known to love.  I have since seen his show, and I have found
    his style very personal. Ive only seen two though and if I saw more I'm sure
    i'd like it. ([removed];)

    However, it would be unfair to not acknowledge one actor who has lived the
    "perfect" life (as far as I know) and that is Raymond Edward Johnson. Seeing
    him at the fotr suffering from MS one could still sense the christlike love
    flowing from him. It shows that a real person can also be a role model that
    we can look up to. And Im sure there are many more like that. Maybe in our
    neighborhoods, maybe in our town, maybe in our churches, and perhaps some in
    the entertainment world.  But even if an actor did have certain flaws, we
    can still admire the "perfectness" of the character which he portrayed and
    the memory of that character and his inspiration still lives on in us. Even
    though he may not be the person who played it.

    In closing, I wanted to thank Charlie for doing an excellent job in this
    digest. He really does try hard to get us working as a team and communicate
    in a caring way. Some may not appreciate what "work" and headache we put him
    through. He does this for free, for us. And its something we shouldn't take
    for granted.

    Well, enough rambling.

    Sincerely,
    George

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 10:48:52 -0400
    From: Ivan G Shreve Jr <iscreve@[removed];
    To: Old Time Radio Mailing List <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Riverdale's life partners

    Hal (Harlan) Stone wondered out loud:

> >     I'm just waiting (with dread) for someone to "out" another dynamic duo.

    "Archie and Jughead". :)<<

    Somebody has beaten you to it.  In the 1997 movie, "Chasing Amy,"
    writer-director Kevin Smith features a gay black cartoonist explaining to
    one of the movie's protagonists--protesting all the while--that Archie and
    Jughead were "a little light in the loafers."  Of course, he's referring to
    the comic book version.

    Ivan
    --
    "I know I'm [removed] as long as I make 'em laugh they're not gonna lock me
    up." -- Red Skelton

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 10:49:04 -0400
    From: hal stone <dualxtwo@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Re: Randy Story.

    Folks, I have a suggestion to make. Pay particular attention to the posting
    from Randy Story (issue 319) : SUBJECT "the Long Ranger".

    I suggest you Re-read it carefully. The Lone Ranger speaks to all us "kids"
    again. Pay attention.

    It was beautifully written, Randy.

    Regards

    Hal(Harlan)Stone
    Jughead

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 10:49:43 -0400
    From: "Tas Richardson" <tasrichardson@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Artie Shaw

    I have been listening to a 13 part series on the life of Artie Shaw.  It is
    being aired on the CBC-FM network, on the 'After Hours' program, from 11:05
    till midnight, each weeknight, and is about half over.  It was made four
    years ago when Shaw was 88 (sounding much younger), and living in Spain.
    There is lots of great music, and anecdotes.  On the show last night, he was
    talking about doing a series of two programs in 1938-39, with the humorist,
    Robert Benchley.  One was called 'Melody and Madness', and the other was
    'The Old Gold  Program'.  His involvement ended when he refused to endorse
    Old Gold cigarettes on the air.  I looked them up in Dunning's book, and
    could find no reference to either program.  Perhaps that is rectified in the
    newer edition.  I was wondering if Elizabeth, or anyone, would have more
    information on these programs, and if they are still available anywhere.
    Thanks.

    Tas (in rat-free Alberta)

    --------------------------------
    End of [removed] Digest V2002 Issue #320
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