Subject: [removed] Digest V2003 #195
From: "OldRadio Mailing Lists" <[removed]@[removed];
Date: 5/12/2003 4:48 PM

To: <[removed]@[removed];

    ------------------------------

                                The Old-Time Radio Digest!
                                  Volume 2003 : Issue 195
                             A Part of the [removed]!
                                     ISSN: 1533-9289

                                     Today's Topics:

      Re: Godfrey on TV                     [ Mark J Cuccia <mcuccia@[removed]; ]
      That time of year                     [ "steven kostelecky" <skostelecky@ho ]
      Network origins (ABC is 50?)          [ Mark J Cuccia <mcuccia@[removed]; ]
      Old Time Radio on DVD and "The Kille  [ Philipmarus@[removed] ]
      Re: Arthur Godfrey                    [ "Andrew Godfrey" <niteowl049@[removed] ]
      cold war radio                        [ "rangus02" <rangus02@[removed]; ]
      white bread                           [ sojax@[removed] (Roger S. Smith) ]
      Re: More ABC-TV                       [ Elizabeth McLeod <lizmcl@[removed] ]
      Disbelief                             [ Harry Bartell <bartell@[removed] ]
      re: Bloopers                          [ John Henley <jhenley@[removed] ]
      Why music in comedy shows?            [ "David Coursey" <david@[removed]; ]
      Rinso . . . Super Suds                [ "Candy Jens" <candyj@[removed]; ]
      May 13th birthdays                    [ Ron Sayles <bogusotr@[removed]; ]
      Anti-smoking PSA                      [ "Jim Knaggs" <jknaggs@[removed]; ]

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    Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 09:14:47 -0400
    From: Mark J Cuccia <mcuccia@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Re: Godfrey on TV

    Larry Jordan wrote:

>     As a baby boomer, I'm old enough to remember Arthur Godfrey on radio,
>     but I do not recall him being on TV. I read somewhere that a portion of
>     his morning CBS radio show was also simulcast on CBS-TV. Is this true?
>     And if so, when did this start and what years did it cover? Thanks.

    This is true, during the 1950's various portions of the CBS Radio weekday
    morning "Arthur Godfrey Time" were indeed telecast over the CBS Television
    Network. Note that I say various *portions*. It wasn't consistant as to
    exactly which 15-minute blocks were simulcast over CBS-TV. In [removed],
    when Julius LaRosa was fired, it was at the *VERY END* of the 90-minute
    radio program, and the CBS-TV simulcast portions had cut-away about a half
    hour earlier. At that time, the 90-min program ran from 10-11:30am Eastern
    over the CBS Radio Network, with CBS-TV running 10-11am or *sometimes*
    cutting away at 10:55am (I assume for a 5-minute CBS-TV newscast?).

    One could always double check old TV Guides or NYTimes TV/Radio listings
    (or any other cities' newspaper TV/Radio sections) on microfilm for
    further details.

    Prior to Summer/Fall 1951, the CBS outcue on both the radio and TV
    networks at the end of a program or program "segment" was "This is CBS,
    the Columbia Broadcasting System", sometimes with a promo inserted such
    as "This is CBS, where 99 million people gather every week, the Columbia
    Broadcasting System", or "This is CBS, where Eve Arden holds class as
    Our Miss Brooks every Sunday night, the Columbia Broadcasting System" or
    the like.

    Beginning in the latter part of 1951, the outcue was changed to:
    "This is the CBS Radio Network" on CBS Radio;
    "This is the CBS Television Network" on CBS-TV (with the new 'eye' logo
    popping up).

    The tapes or transcriptions I've heard of Godfrey's morning program always
    have him closing out with an outcue and local-ID (while Godfrey's theme
    "Seems Like Old Times" plays softly underneath), the outcue being "This is
    CBS, the Columbia Broadcasting System" prior to Summer/Fall 1951. Since
    both CBS Radio and CBS-TV outcued at the end of every program/segment this
    way, it didn't matter if Godfrey was simulcasting that 15-minute segment.

    But when Summer/Fall 1951 rolled around, how did he outcue? From the tapes
    I've heard, he always outcued "This is the CBS Radio Network" after EVERY
    15-minute segment, apparantly even if that segment was being simulcast
    over the CBS Television Network! I would assume that someone in master
    control would cut to a video feed of the 1950's era CBS "eye" (with the
    words 'TELEVISION' under 'CBS', and 'NETWORK' under 'TELEVISION', and
    backed by "floating clouds") from a printed slide or cue-card.

    Godfrey did his *own* network outcues, not his announcer Tony Marvin. Of
    course when Godfrey went back to being radio only circa 1960, he let a
    *LOT* of people go, including the studio audience as well as Tony Marvin.
    (Tony Marvin became a newscaster at Mutual, doing some of their hourly
    newscasts in the early 1960s). Godfrey's morning broadcast (now radio
    only) during the 1960s began to be trimmed shorter and shorter, although
    he pre-recorded shows for *ALL SEVEN* days of the week as the 1960s
    continued on. His last programs aired on CBS Radio in April 1972, if I
    have my dates correct.

    Throughout the 1950s, Godfrey also had some prime-time programs, such as
    "Arthur Godfrey's Talent Scouts", and "Arthur Godfrey and His Friends".
    At various times during the 1950s, these programs were either CBS-TV ONLY
    or they were simulcast over both CBS Radio and CBS-TV. They were all
    *LIVE* (except I assume for a west coast kinescope on TV, tape-delay for
    Radio, and maybe sometimes a substitute kinescope if he couldn't show up
    live?), but I don't really know how the outcues were handled if it was a
    simulcast on both CBS Radio and CBS-TV for these prime-time variety
    programs of Godfrey's.

    BTW, most if not all of the commercials on Godfrey's radio/TV programs in
    the 1960s were done *LIVE* by Godfrey, usually demonstrating the product,
    so there was no need to "split" the TV and Radio networks when network
    commercial positions came up. (Don McNeill's Breakfast Club on ABC Radio
    in the 1950's had a few brief periods of time when ABC-TV did a video
    simulcast, but I'd read that there were *DIFFERENT* sponsors for the radio
    vs. TV portions -- I assume McNeill did the radio commercials LIVE fed
    over the ABC Radio Network, while master control ran films of the TV
    commercials over ABC-TV).

    As far as TV goes, if you've ever seen the A&E/Biography on Godfrey, he
    did a few TV specials on CBS-TV in the early 1960s, when he returned to
    broadcasting after his surgery for lung cancer in 1959. These variety
    specials were pre-taped for the most part. Godfrey also either substituted
    for or sometimes co-hosted with Allan Funt on CBS-TV's CANDID CAMERA in
    the early 1960's.

    He was a paid spokesman for Colgate-Palmolive's Axion Enzyme Detergent in
    the late 1960s, doing several voiceover radio commercials and filmed TV
    commercials for the product during that time -- I would assume his picture
    also appeared in billboard and print (magazine/newspaper) ads for Axion
    at the time. I remember him as spokesman for Axion during that time frame!

    And he'd occasionally show up as a guest star on someone's TV program
    during the 1960s and even 1970s. There is an episode of "The Lucy Show" in
    the 1960s, where Godfrey is the guest star *AS HIMSELF*, and Lucy hooks
    him to appear in a local stage-play variety show set on a Southern
    Riverboat scene.

    And in Spring 1978, CBS-TV had their WEEK-LONG "CBS-on-the-Air, a
    Celebration of Fifty Years" in [removed] Godfrey (along with Carol
    Burnet and Mary Tyler Moore, and I think Lucy as well) were some of the
    "primary" hosts for most/all of the seven weeknight broadcasts. One thing
    that I remember vividly, was that the first night of broadcast, a Sunday
    night, had a LOT of CBS Radio stuff from the 1927-early 50's timeframe,
    along with clips of some Sunday night popular CBS-TV shows from previous
    years (such as My Favorite Martian, and Jack Benny's TV show).

    They had a scene in a 1950's style kitchen, with a plastic table-top radio
    and you heard a clip of Godfrey speaking. The camera pans to the living
    room, and there is an old B&W 1950's era "furniture cabinet" Television,
    and you see the video clip of Godfrey! I caught that right away when I saw
    that back in 1978, because even though I was born in 1961 and didn't grow
    up with Godfrey in the 1950s, I already *knew* from my always-in-progress
    research in old radio/TV/movies/etc., that many of Godfrey's 1950's era
    CBS broadcasts were simulcast over both CBS Radio and CBS-TV.

    Mark J. Cuccia
    mcuccia@[removed]
    New Orleans LA

    ------------------------------

    Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 09:15:42 -0400
    From: "steven kostelecky" <skostelecky@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  That time of year

    Actually I'm about a month late, but I have gotten the sheckels together to
    send a check for $[removed] (suggested contribution) to help keep this Digest
    and the Nostalgia Phorums going. As Charlie says, no one has to contribute
    anything to receive the Digest, but this is the third year I have done so
    and I can't think of a better investment. These endeavors have changed my
    life in innumerable ways and have contributed greatly to the furthering of
    the hobby and ongoing research and preservation efforts.
    Thanks Charlie, and to everyone who contributes to the Digest and Phorums.
    Best,
    Steve

    ------------------------------

    Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 09:16:03 -0400
    From: Mark J Cuccia <mcuccia@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Network origins (ABC is 50?)

    If you *REALLY* want to trace back the history of ABC, it would in a way
    be the second network.

    NBC would actually start *BEFORE* 1926, if you count AT&T's WEAF Radio
    Network circa 1922. ABC would come around 1924 or so, if you count
    RCA/GE/Westinghouse's WJZ Radio Network which had to use inferior Western
    Union Telegraph circuits to distribute.

    That "might" be stretching it a bit, but the WEAF network did come before
    the WJZ network, and WEAF eventually became WNBC/WRCA (now WFAN) but was
    NBC-Red for all those years (remaining RCA's NBC after the Blue was sold
    to Noble), and WJZ was the key station of NBC-Blue, which was all sold to
    Noble and became ABC (Radio).

    Sort of "ironic" that WJZ which was originally RCA/GE/Westinghouse's
    station and network, was sold off by RCA in 1942/43 to be spun off to
    become ABC, while RCA/GE/Westinghouse *bought* WEAF/etc. from AT&T, and
    *that* was what was retained as NBC by RCA.

    Also "ironic" that Westinghouse (or what remained of them) merged with or
    bought out CBS in more recent [removed] of course, today, I think of CBS as
    being part of CBS/Viacom/Paramount/Westwood/Infinity/Mutual/NBCRadio/etc.

    Of course, CBS has a fixed "origin" of 1927, and Mutual has (had?) a
    "fixed" origin of 1934 (or is it 1936?).

    But if ABC *REALLY* wanted to go back, it would be to 1924 or so, and
    could "claim" to be the second network, after NBC which could claim 1922
    as its origins as the first network!

    Mark J. Cuccia
    mcuccia@[removed]
    New Orleans LA

    ------------------------------

    Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 10:45:46 -0400
    From: Philipmarus@[removed]
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Old Time Radio on DVD and "The Killers"
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    I read Michael C. Gwynne's post concerning Charles McGraw and that diner that
    was featured in the film Ernest Hemingway's The Killers (1946) with great
    interest. I received a DVD catalog the other day. Upon glancing through it I
    noticed that the DVD release of the 1946 classic includes among its special
    features the Screen Director's Playhouse version of "The Killers". I have not
    "heard" this DVD but would like too very soon.

    Sincerely,

    Mike Kerezman, Jr
    Macomb, Oklahoma

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    Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 10:46:03 -0400
    From: "Andrew Godfrey" <niteowl049@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Re: Arthur Godfrey

      Have always been an Arthur Godfrey fan and have been asked more times than
    I can remember if I was related to Arthur Godfrey. My dad and Arthur both
    lived in New Jersey but no relation.
       However, the Julius LaRosa firing is something I really don't understand.
    What could he have done
    to so infuriate Godfrey to fire him on the air instead of waiting until the
    show was over? Being fired is bad enough but to be humiliated on top of the
    firing by having it broadcast to the nation makes it even more traumatic.
      Andrew Godfrey

    ------------------------------

    Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 11:25:07 -0400
    From: "rangus02" <rangus02@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  cold war radio
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    Paul Feavel's account of the "black" radio stations which were operated during
    World War II by both the Germans and the British reminded me of a Cold War
    radio situation which prevailed in the Czech Republic well into the 1990s.
        Like most other governments during and after WW II, the Czech government
    monitored the shortwave broadcasts of the [removed], Britain and other countries
    around the world---stations which in most cases they tried to jam to keep
    their own citizens from hearing.  This work was carried on by Orbis, the media
    monopoly which controlled newspapers, radio, television, magazine and book
    publishing and just about every other form of mass communications for the 40
    years of communist control.  The Orbis building on Stalinova housed not only
    the editorial offices for various magazines and books, but a mysterious suite
    on the second floor which was empty and apparently vacant all day.  The rest
    of the building emptied at 4:30 every afternoon when the normal work force
    went home.  At midnight, however, a completely different workforce, mainly
    women, streamed into the building, climbed the stairs to the second floor and
    sat down at workstations which included shortwave radios and recording
    devices, along with steno pads.  It was the job of these women to listen to
    the various international newscasts including those not in Czech, and
    transcribe what they heard.  Then, around 4 AM, a supervisor collected the
    various transcripts and passed them to an editorial desk where editors decided
    which items were important or of interest to government officials, and
    produced a daily worksheet containing Czech translations of these items,
    intended for distribution only to key personnel at the various government
    ministries and bureaus. The workers left the building by 6:30 AM and by the
    time the day staff arrived an hour later, there was no evidence of them ever
    having been there.
        When the Russians moved out after 1989, so did most of Orbis' profitable
    divisions, including radio, television, the more popular magazines and
    better-selling books.  But the women continued to report at midnight each
    night until the end of 1997, at which time toe government finally cut off the
    funding for the company.  As government employees, they couldn't be fired,
    even though their entire nightly output was going directly from the typewriter
    into the wastebasket.  Orbis managing director Jiri Zoufal, well able to read
    the handwriting on the wall, tried hard to find a profitable way of using
    their labor (one idea was to use the staff to translate genuine government
    data on factory and farm production and sell it to the CIA and MI5, later to
    media outside the Czech Republic at whatever they could get for it).  Even
    though no customers showed up, the women kept coming to work right up to
    December 31, 1997, when the lights were turned out for the last time.

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    Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 11:30:30 -0400
    From: sojax@[removed] (Roger S. Smith)
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  white bread

    Awhile back someone mentioned that white bread was tasteless.  Hal Stone
    worked for WNEW in Saginaw, Michigan and seeing he was there for a few
    years I bet that he would disagree about white bread being tasteless,
    that is  if he had any Spatz's bread while he was there.  Roger

    ------------------------------

    Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 12:24:42 -0400
    From: Elizabeth McLeod <lizmcl@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Re: More ABC-TV

    On 5/12/03 9:20 AM OldRadio Mailing Lists wrote:

>     ABC didn't
>     have many full-time affiliates, but it got its programs out on a lot of
>     stations.  It had The Lone Ranger in 1949, and that got out quite well.
>     And at the end of 1950, Tom Corbett, Space Cadet switched from CBS to ABC
>     because ABC was able to give the program a wider distribution.   Space
>     Patrol was an important show before the Paramount merger, as was Super
>     Circus, which began in the late 40s.

    Point taken -- buy in a lot of cases these were examples of extension
    spotting by sponsors rather than anything to do with the network. Film
    prints of all of these programs were widely distributed to non-ABC
    stations by sponsors specifically because ABC itself was so limited in
    its reach. With no ABC affiliates available in most markets, this was the
    only way these programs could get national distribution.

    ABC-TV's ability to service stations on a live basis was severely limited
    prior to the UPT merger because its resources were so limited: in fact,
    the network was shoved off in a corner of the RCA Building as a tenant
    for more than a decade after it was split from NBC, because it couldn't
    afford proper facilities of its own. It wasn't until after the UPT merger
    that sufficient funds were available to expand ABC-TV into a genuinely
    national operation.

    Interestingly ABC began its television operations on a very limited basis
    during the latter months of the war: as early as 1945 there were "Blue
    Network/ABC Television Programs," including a TV version of the popular
    daytime audience participation show "Ladies Be Seated." But ABC itself
    had no television facilities *at all* at this point -- and it had to
    sub-contract all its video production to DuMont. ABC-TV was forced to air
    its programs over the DuMont New York station WABD-TV until it finally
    got its first television license (for WJZ-TV) in August 1948.

    Elizabeth

    ------------------------------

    Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 12:23:32 -0400
    From: Harry Bartell <bartell@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Disbelief

    Ron Sayles poses an interesting question:

>     This question is for those of you who have actually worked in Olde Tyme
>     Radio. When listening to old radio programs, if indeed you do, do you
>     visualize a horse and rider going off into the sunset, or do you just
>     see a sound effects man pounding a couple of coconut shells in a box.
>     Because you have been there and have seen all of the behind the scenes
>     goings on, is it difficult to suspend disbelief?

    While I can speak for only one OTR relic, I would venture to say that the
    radio actor would listen to a radio show from many years ago in the same
    manner he would view a [removed] it were done well he would not be conscious
    of the mechanics. What would probably cause attention to shift would be
    things like  overly loud or poorly done sound, purple prose and   acty
    performances. If the old programs were  hampered by poor sound recording
    that would be the first and most disturbing challenge to a suspension of
    disbelief because it immediately calls attention to the mechanics.

    Harry Bartell

    ------------------------------

    Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 13:56:26 -0400
    From: John Henley <jhenley@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  re:  Bloopers

    Andrew Steinberg said,

>     I was wondering if people could post some of their favorite OTR bloopers.
>     I mean real bloopers that people have heard in shows, not the ones recreated
>     years later on records by Kermit Schaefer

    Sure, here's my favorite, which I've posted here before but
    not in quite a while:
    At the very end of a Jimmy Durante Show Christmas episode
    guest-starring Margaret O'Brien - don't have the exact date here,
    but I believe it was in 1947 - announcer Howard Petrie, absolutely
    down to the wire and with the audience applauding behind him,
    breathlessly blurts out:  "Margaret O'Brien appeared through the
    courtesy of Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer producers of the new movie
    'Cass Timberlane' starring **Spencie Tracer** and Lana Turner!!"
    John Henley

    ------------------------------

    Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 14:27:13 -0400
    From: "David Coursey" <david@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Why music in comedy shows?
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    Hello:

    What was the thinking in including so much music in what today would be
    straight-forward situation comedy shows? An example was a Fibber McGee &
    Molly where the segment ends and Harlow Wilcox introduced Billy Mills and
    the orchestra, who played a song. Or Fred Allen introducing Al Goodman. Or
    Dennis Day, who was at least integrated into the program.

    When did this trend stop for new programs that came on the air?

    Just something I've been wondering about.

    --
    David E. Coursey, Executive Editor
    ZDNet AnchorDesk ([removed] <[removed]; )

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    Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 15:15:55 -0400
    From: "Candy Jens" <candyj@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Rinso . . . Super Suds

>     Wasn't the Super Suds, Super [removed] commercial for RINSO ?

>     Jerry B.

    No, Rinso's went:
    Rinso white - Rinso bright -
    Happy little washday song!

    Candy Jens

    ------------------------------

    Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 15:16:37 -0400
    From: Ron Sayles <bogusotr@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  May 13th birthdays

    If you were born on the 13th of May, you share your birthday with:

    05-13-1902 - David Broekman - Leiden, The Netherlands- d. 4-1-1958
    conductor: "Mobil Magazine"; "Texaco Star Theatre"
    05-13-1909 - Ken Darby - Hebron, NE - d. 1-24-1992
    singer, choral conductor: (The King’s Men) "Fibber McGee and Molly"

    Ron Sayles
    Milwaukee, Wisconsin
    Hometown of [removed] Kaltenborn

    ------------------------------

    Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 15:17:07 -0400
    From: "Jim Knaggs" <jknaggs@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Anti-smoking PSA
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    First, I'd like to apologize for this somewhat off-topic question, but this
    has been bugging me for years & thought that one of my fellow OTRers might
    have an answer.

    In the 1970s, I seem to recall an anti-smoking television commercial/PSA
    that featured someone dropping a pack of cigarettes and having them swept up
    by a gentleman with a broom.  This is an odd remembrance from my childhood
    that has dogged me for a  decades now.  I can only remember this scene.
    Does anyone remember this PSA?  If so, were there any noteworthy actors in
    it?  Sorry again about the slightly off topic nature -- any insight would be
    appreciated.

    Jim Knaggs
    WCLV [removed] FM Cleveland's Classical Music
    WRMR 1420 AM Cleveland's Classic Pops

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