
 SEE INFO SECTION AT END OF THIS DIGEST FOR UNSUBSCRIBE AND OTHER INFORMATION. 
	  	         === Last Update 1/17/95  ====





	    [removed]   Volume 96 : Issue 41


Articles in this issue of [removed]:

	 introduction
	 Music Programs
	 "Remember Radio"
	 Benny Christmas Prog
	  Dare we say [removed]!
	 Remember WENN
	 Sparky on TV
	 Thanks and tape squeal
	 Lectures
	 ADMINISTRIVIA: Flames and Copyrights
	 Microwave results
	 Jack Benny Christmas show 1946 
	 1930's Amos & Andy Protests 
	 Youngest Member?
	 book on Have Gun, Will Travel

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 06:27:25 +0500
From: cbholm@[removed] (c holm)
To: otr@[removed]
Subject: introduction
Message-Id: <[removed]@[removed]>

  Up till now I've been ignoring the advice about posting an introduction,
so this isn't my first post.  Being 21, I seem to be part of the younger
group of OTR fans.  I have been a fan for as long as I can remember.  I got
into OTR as a child through the regular sunday night broadcasts of WAMU in
Wash. DC  ([removed], 7pm for anyone in the area)  hosted by John Hickman.
These shows are now hosted by both Hickman and Eddie Walker.  Even now,
while I'm away from DC and attending Virginia Tech, I have my father send me
the broadcasts of Gunsmoke and Lum and Abner, which I can't seem to live
without.  
  Anyway, I think otr has a lot to offer the younger generations who missed
the golden age of radio.  Keep the hobby alive.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 16:46:55 -0600 (CST)
From: Charlie D Matkin <cdm01@[removed]>
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Music Programs
Message-ID: <[removed]@[removed]>

I have a few Voice of Firestone, Telephone Hour & Railroad Hour tapes and 
would like to know what you have. I also have some videos of the Voice of 
Firestone. Were you working in New Orleans radio in the mid-sixties? 
     Charlie Matkin  Phone/Fax: (504) 282-6404

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 21:28:28 -0400 (EDT)
From: wmackey@[removed]
To: "otr@[removed]" <otr@[removed]>
Subject: "Remember Radio"
Message-id: <[removed]@[removed]>

While looking around the public library this afternoon I found a book, 
_not_ the one I was looking for, which is usually the case, that I could 
y'all would enjoy.  "Remember Radio", by Ron Lackman, 1970, $[removed]

Its 128 pages of photographs and about one or two paragraph descriptions 
of the various shows in category: mystery-crime-adventure, soaps, drama, 
comedy and variety.  In addition are ads from the time for different 
shows with times, stations/network, sponsor, etc.  There are also two 
multi-page listing grids, one from the '30s (no date) and one from 1948.  
No month on either one.  :)

It was interesting looking the grid and thinking "If I were listening on 
that day, which show would I listen to?" since several favourites were 
opposite each other.  For example, on Monday at 8 [removed] one would have to 
chose from Cavalcade of America, The Falcon, Sound Off and Inner Sanctum.

Just thought I would pass this along, fwiw.

Joe Mackey
Huntington, WV

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 11:56:01 +0500
From: cbholm@[removed] (c holm)
To: otr@[removed]
Subject: Benny Christmas Prog
Message-Id: <[removed]@[removed]>

Ethan Muse>
 In the '47 christmas shopping episode of the Jack Benny show, they make
reference to the shoe lace routine happening the year before, so perhaps it
is the '46 episode that contains the bit you are looking for.  In any case
I've never heard it, and don't know if a copy still exists.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 02:25:00 GMT
From: [removed]@[removed] (Marty Tabnik)
To: otr@[removed]
Subject:  Dare we say [removed]!
Message-Id: <96013019402632980@[removed]>

BC> From: BCH66@[removed]
BC> Message-ID: <960128171956_408729982@[removed]>

BC> <snip> I have known people for years who had recorded every I
BC> LOVE LUCY , STAR TREK and MISSION IMPOSSIBLE episode and had
BC> in fact made copies for others.  The studios have not come
BC> knocking on their door. It is just a trade between fans and
BC> not a big issue.

1.  I doubt that the studios were even AWARE of those trades.
(Moreover, I doubt that those fans ADVERTISED.)

2.  A "trade between fans" is as much a violation as a sale.


BC> Back in the 50s a lot of radio fans were finding out that many
BC> networks, sponsors and/ or agencies were literally throwing out
BC> their radio "properties". In the trash can mind you.  I would
BC> come to the conclusion right there that they had no intention
BC> of protecting the copyright which they viewed as worthless.

In MOST of these cases, they were *NOT* the copyright owner.
Moreover, your conclusion is interesting -- totally false,
but interesting. <G>

In any event, you merit an A+ for your creative legal theories.
[I would be very interested in seeing someone attempt to make
your argument(s) in court.]
---
 * SLMR [removed] * That's why it's called COPYright *NOT* SELLright!

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 23:41:39 -0500
From: Kubelski@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Remember WENN
Message-ID: <960130234138_210608166@[removed]>

I noticed the flub on remember WENN regarding criticism of Roosevelt as well.
 He is justly reviled by Libertarians (like me) and we recently rediscovered
the writings of columnist Albert Jay Knock (Nock?), whose work is collected
in "Forgotten Lessons. (Laissez Faire Books)"  This is to say nothing of the
grief Roosevelt's New Deal programs took from [removed] Mencken with this classic:

"The New Deal has two great operating principles.  If you need something, the
government will get it for you.  If you have something, the government will
take it away."

That said, the fact that OTR is showing up in popular entertainment to the
degree that it has recently is a good sign that it is still popular enough
with general audiences to keep truly great works in "print" and remembered.

I was astonished recently to visit a Borders bookstore which had an entire
shelf devoted to OTR.  These weren't dusty old Metacom tapes, either.  There
was a range of comedy, drama, mysteries, Orson Welles and Peter Lorre
collections, and a smattering of great 50s SCI-FI.  I owned nearly all of it,
of course, but the key thing is that Borders has built its expansion on
controlling inventory to a minute level.  If the stuff is in their stores,
that  mean's there's a market and that the stuff is moving.

Sean Dougherty
Kubelski@[removed]

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 01:09:26 -0400 (EDT)
From: JSEXTON@[removed]
To: otr@[removed]
Subject: Sparky on TV
Message-id: <01I0N4482W488WWHIT@[removed]>

   In reference to Jan's inquiry, I well remember that Sparky and the Talking
Piano was indeed a cartoon shown on a major TV network-several years ago.
   The cartoon paralled the audio recording-and the video showed a little boy
much like the one shown on the record cover of the Talking Train.
    I will check some video catalogues to see if it's available. Best,John
(JSexton@[removed])

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 00:44:27 -0600
From: Ken McCulloch <mcculk@[removed]>
To: otr@[removed]
Subject: Thanks and tape squeal
Message-ID: <[removed]@[removed]>

My first time posting but I've been reading for quite a while and enjoy 
everyone's comments, especially discussion of many of my favorites: Our 
Miss Brooks, Amos and Andy, X Minus-1, etc. Thanks to all who take the 
time to post a comment.
I had used water from time to time until I noticed my old Sony R-R was 
beginning to rust :). Now, whenever I have a "squeally" tape I use a dab 
or head lubricant, available at Radio Shack and other outlets. Applied 
to the posts, heads (but not the capstan) :) and so on, I am able to get 
rid of the [removed] Baking works too but this is faster. 
Ken

------------------------------

Date: 31 Jan 96 00:59:56 EST
From: Joel  Senter <[removed]@[removed]>
To: OTR Digest <otr@[removed]>
Subject: Lectures
Message-ID: <[removed]@[removed]>

I've begun to wonder if The Digest is going to have to start charging
subscibers tuition to cover all the lectures we get??  Joel 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 01:49:10 -0600 (CST)
From: Bill P <rrb@[removed]>
To: otr@[removed] (Old Time Radio)
Subject: ADMINISTRIVIA: Flames and Copyrights
Message-Id: <[removed]@[removed]>

Ok, seems that this otherwise well-behaved group of hobbiests get
pretty hot when a few zealots push one of our biggest
[removed] copying.

Lou Genco and I have corresponded in email and I have read much of the
thread myself. I have asked Lou to post what he emailed me on the
subject, which I am sure he will.   In the mean time, let me make a
few statements on this topic, especially how it effects this list,
which I am the maintainer of.

.... ABOUT THE GROUP ...

First, let me remind everybody that this mailing list is for
discussions regarding Old Time Radio programming.  The list is meant
to be an enjoyable, nostalgic place for people to exchange information
and conversation about the shows, the stars and other matters of that
period of radio broadcasting.

We are not here to focus, as much, on how those broadcasts are viewed
in this [removed]  This means that this copyright holy war that is
going on right now (as well as the recent 'Is OTR Racist' thread) is
really not the core reason that we all gather here.  If you didn't
understand that, and somehow thought you had stumbled onto
[removed], please rest-assured that such is not the purpose
for this list.

There are always a few 'absolute crusaders' in every group and we have
them here too.  However, to you who feel you must crusade for your own
personal cause on this group,  may I calmly suggest that you find some
other (or start your own) list focusing on these issues that you seem
to feel so strongly about.  Lou's comments address this matter quite
[removed]

In short, it doesn't matter to me what side you fall on, please keep
the crusading off of OTR-Digest.  Great lists get destroyed by this
kind of pointless bickering that will *never* get settled amicably.

This is fair warning. 

Remember this.  Please don't give in to the urge to get involved in
flame-counter-flame.  Just drop it and say nothing.  It is hard, and
in some stubborn cases it is almost impossible, but it does work.

.....About the [removed]



However, we hobbiests must take our heads out of the sands of time and
realize something that will forever change our lives.  The crusaders
are correct, for the most part, in basis if not in proportion.

In a nut shell, folks, one of the by-products of living in the
information age is that information is now not only the 'product' of
choice but also information is currency.  This means that while we
were in the industrial age, information was freer.  We wanted people
to access information and we also realized that information 'should'
be shared and spread around.  Radio stations had a lot of news and we
believed in the public domain.  Sure there were copyrights, but they
had expire dates and you had to actually apply for and pay for them in
order for them to be enforcible.  There were also limits on what could
be copyrighted.

As we move deeper into the information-age, it is information that is
being bought and sold.  Access to that information is key to it being
profitable.   New value is being found in that which had laid dormant
for decades and in many cases left for dead.  So those who saw gold in
what used to be a landfill of outdated stuff, have to put the squeeze
on what was once an accepted practice.  They have to create a new
climate of copyright.   

Here is the bottom line, folks, as far as I can see.  It doesnt matter
anymore that you have been collecting for years, it doesnt matter if
mom and pop are making a few bucks.  It doesn't;t matter if collectors
(and their, now, illegal copies) were the only source for some of this
stuff.   Someone (or several someone's) saw an untapped market and
bought the right to stop you from trading and copying some programs.  

It isn't right, it isn't fair, and it is a crying shame that we now
live in a climate where the word 'public domain' might not even be in a
dictionary in 10 years.   However, this *is* most definitely the
direction the entire world is going at break-neck speed.  

If it can be perceived to have any sort of value, it will be owned by
someone and there will always be someone there to keep it from becoming public domain and/or to charge a license fee.  With the
advent of digital radio and TV transmissions, you are likely to find
greater restrictions on what you are allowed to listen to and/or to
[removed] even off the air.

You can take the above to the bank, folks.  IMHO, access to
information is going to be very restricted by such things as
copyright, even to the point where simple speech is considered
copyrighted.  The result is going to be a narrowing of the information
available to the general public and the ability to legally restrict
speech by making it a crime to reproduce or re-transmit *anything* of
value that you see or hear.  Copyright law may well be the entry point
for suppression of large bodies of information.  As M Tabnik noted, the
owner even has the right to withhold the information from any
distribution.   Not that big of a loss if we are talking about an OTR
show, but what if it expands to encompass more critical information
like history and news.  Just today I heard that Radio France
International has pulled its world service show off of the World Radio
Network (the network that broadcasts many nation's world-service
broadcasts via satellite to North America) over the contractual rights
to carry.

My point is this, folks.  Enjoy it while you [removed]  You are probably
below the radar of most 'copyright-infringement' [removed] For now,
at least.   But please realize that the letter of the law is more with
the crusaders than it is in favor of the hobbiests, and if you don't
get nailed, it is more likely that it is either not worth their effort
to catch you or might be bad PR for the company, rather than because
they don't have the right.  

.... BACK TO LIST ISSUES ....

I won't stop you from posting requests for tapes.  That is your
business, and you take the chance that Marty or some other true
believer will email you a flame.

[removed]   I am not going to stand by and watch this issue destroy
this list's atmosphere or drive away readers.  Therefore, I am going
to agree with Lou Genco, (assuming I am not violating his
[removed])  and ask that this argument end *here*.  The only
information on copyrights that is still welcome on this group is
verifiable, referenced, up-to-date legal fact.  I have seen *z e r o*
content of this variety.  We don't need any more posturing, crusading,
flaming and long argument.  Those who wish to continue this sort of
thread should start a new listserver to do so.  Those who insist on
starting it (or fanning the flames) here will be warned, then removed.

Lou Genco has links to copyright pages on his server.  Use them to
satisfy your need-to-know.  Lets return to the purpose of this
[removed]  Old Time Radio enjoyment.

William Pfeiffer
List Owner/Administrator:  Old Time Radio Digest
wdp@[removed]  Web: [removed]~rrb/

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 03:38:55 -0500 (EST)
From: MAX SCHMID <mschmid@[removed]>
To: airwaves <[removed]@[removed]>
Subject: Microwave results
Message-ID: <[removed]@[removed]>

	On a whim, and in a hurry, I took a squealing copy of SUSPENSE 
"The Dark Tower" with Orson Welles, and put it in my microwave for two 
minutes.  This is a carousel model with only one level setting.
	The results were interesting to look at, however quite unsalvageable.
The outer inch or so of the tape on the reel blossomed out on the edges like
a rosebud, and the reel severely warped.  When it cooled off a bit the inner 
portion of the tape seemed less fused together than the outside, and 
possibly still good if I cut off the first half-hour or so.
	Guess I'll try a slow oven next time.  And I'm usuallly pretty 
good in the kitchen! 8->. 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 03:54:24 -0500 (EST)
From: MAX SCHMID <mschmid@[removed]>
To: airwaves <[removed]@[removed]>
Subject: Jack Benny Christmas show 1946 
Message-ID: <[removed]@[removed]>

	I just went through an old copy of Jay Hickerson's Jack Benny log.
I think he also has a much more extensive one that I have at home that 
lists which shows are available.  Most of them are, after sometime in the 
early '30s, as I recall.
	Perhaps Jay will check his records and tie up the loose ends of 
the Shoelaces question once and for all (hint).
	Dec. 08, 1946  - "Jack Buys Don Shoelaces"

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 04:06:26 -0500 (EST)
From: MAX SCHMID <mschmid@[removed]>
To: airwaves <[removed]@[removed]>
Subject: 1930's Amos & Andy Protests 
Message-ID: <[removed]@[removed]>

	Once again I must plead the "at-home" defense for incomplete data.
[removed] my bookshelf is a scholarly magazine JOURNAL OF AMERICAN CULTURE
I think it's called, from a university press about ten years ago.  The 
entire issue is devoted to OTR, and contains several fascinating articles
on every aspect of radio broadcasting, from soaps to detectives, 
including a lengthy examination of the cultural aspects of Vic and Sade.
	Another article is researched from the Black press in the South 
and covers a large and organized protest of Amos and Andy that, as I recall,
came mostly from Church leadership.  I don't know how well this was 
covered by the mainstream media, if at all, but it wouldn't surprise me if
the issue was largely ignored, owing to the immense popularity of the show.
	If there is interest in the subject, I will dig out the magazine and
provide details.

	- Max
	

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 07:33:32 -0400 (EDT)
From: wmackey@[removed]
To: "otr@[removed]" <otr@[removed]>
Subject: Youngest Member?
Message-id: <[removed]@[removed]>

Cliff, I would imagine you are the youngest in the group, in body but not 
spirit.  :)

Being 46 I imagine I fall somewhere in the middle.  

But it is good to seeing younger people interested in otr and getting to 
the hobby.  Hobby?  Its not a hobby, it's life!  :)

Joe Mackey
Huntington, WV

------------------------------

Date: 31 Jan 96 09:18:00 -0500
From: amo@[removed] (Arlene M Osborne +1 +1 508 960 6273)
To: otr@[removed]
Subject: book on Have Gun, Will Travel
Message-Id: <[removed]@[removed]>

Having recently purchased "Gunsmoke" by Suzanne and Gabor
Barabas, I was wondering if there is or was ever a similar
book on Have Gun, Will Travel.

Does anyone know?

Arlene Osborne amo@[removed]

------------------------------

    


    ****  END OF ARTICLE SECTION - INFORMATION BOILERPLATE FOLLOWS ****

1) Contacting the list administrator.
2) Unsubscribing from this list
3) Receive a DIGEST READING TIPS file
4) AIRWAVES web page
5) Funding Notice 
6) Redistribution of [removed]

1)  The [removed] maintainer can be reached at wdp@[removed]

2) To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list, send email to
[removed]@[removed] and place the word UNSUBSCRIBE
alone on the Subject: line of your request.  The body of
request mail is ignored by the server.  If you are unable to
unsubscribe using this method, and you are SURE you are doing
everything right, then (and only then) contact the administrator
(wdp@[removed]) for assistance.  Please send along the headers of
any problem mail for diagnostics.  

	* PLEASE Never send unsub messages to the list! *

3) For help in dealing with digests, asend for a file called *The Fine Art Of Reading and
Replying To Email Digests*  It contains tips on scanning digests and
making replies easier.  Send email to digest-tips@[removed] and use
the subject line of *Digest Tips*.  

4) Visit the AIRWAVES MEDIA WEB PAGE.  [removed]~rrb/

5) [removed] does not get any funds from your internet provider.
If this service is of value to you, please support it in whatever measure
you feel able, to help defray costs.  Suggested amount is [removed] per year,
but any help is appreciated.  Our mailing address is PO Box 8746
Springfield Mo 65801. Make any checks out to William Pfeiffer. 
Note: No payment is required to receive [removed]

6) If you are redistributing [removed] in any form, you must
contact the list owner for permission.  Generally permission is given,
free of charge, for non-commercial electronic distribution.
Commercial distribution rights are available under very reasonable
terms.  The listowner's address is  wdp@[removed]



---- 
End of [removed] Digest V96 Issue #41

