------------------------------
The Old-Time Radio Digest!
Volume 2004 : Issue 416
A Part of the [removed]!
[removed]
ISSN: 1533-9289
Today's Topics:
A couple musical questions [ David Loftus <dloft59@[removed] ]
retcon [ David Loftus <dloft59@[removed] ]
Elspeth Eric [ Richard Pratz <[removed]@[removed]; ]
"A Christmas Carol" Broadcasts [ "GARY SMULLEN" <tsegs@[removed]; ]
Re: Unheard Characters [ Elizabeth McLeod <lizmcl@[removed] ]
Shadow and Substance [ skallisjr@[removed] ]
re: off-mike characters [ "W. Gary W." <wgaryw@[removed]; ]
Silent figures [ <otrbuff@[removed]; ]
Charles Lane [ "bkidera" <rkidera1@[removed] ]
Unheard characters [ eloyer@[removed] ]
Re: Unheard of [ "Philip Railsback" <philiprailsback ]
Gildy's wife [ "bobb lynes" <iairotr@[removed]; ]
Artie Shaw obit [ "bobb lynes" <iairotr@[removed]; ]
Unheard of [ lynn wagar <philcolynn@[removed]; ]
Eddie Cantors 5 Daughters [ George Aust <austhaus1@[removed] ]
The Wistful Vista Triangle [ davesline@[removed] ]
William L. Shirer [ "Roby McHone" <otr_alaska@[removed] ]
Jerry Orbach correction [ Eric Cooper <ercjncpr@[removed]; ]
Worst radio shows? [ "WILLIS G Saunders" <saunders8@veri ]
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2004 12:03:38 -0500
From: David Loftus <dloft59@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: A couple musical questions
In starting to research "The Bickersons," I tried to find the lyrics to the
theme music, "Please Go 'Way and Let Me Sleep," but so far came up with
nothing. The song apparently was originally published in 1902, by Cecil Mack
and J. Tim Brymn. (If I read the Web sites correctly, lyricist Mack was a
fairly successful black Tin Pan Alley composer, later to become renowned for
many other songs.)
I heard a bit of "Please Go '[removed]" long before I ever encountered the
Bickersons: along with "I'm Gonna Sit Right Down and Write Myself a Letter"
and a few others, my Dad used to sing a few lines to himself regularly. I'm
not sure I ever got to hear the whole song, though.
Could someone also help me with a word in the bridge to the theme of "It Pays
to be Ignorant"? The one that goes:
"Each week I earn six dollars,
My brain is terribly _____;
But when there ain't no income,
Then there ain't no income tax."
Finally, does anyone have background on a song called "Hats Off to the
Stoker"? My grandfather used to sing it, and claimed he heard it off a
recording by an outfit called Two Black Crows, or something like that. My
uncle and brothers and I can usually piece together most of the song the way
my grandfather used to sing it, but I'd like to get all the lyrics, and a
copy of the original recording someday, if possible.
David Loftus
Portland, Oregon
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2004 13:12:11 -0500
From: David Loftus <dloft59@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: retcon
Kermyt Anderson <kermyta@[removed]; explained:
might be interested in the comic book term
"retcon". This is short for "retroactive continuity", and refers to
whenever writers simply choose to write out of existence anything
previously established that they don't like.
Interesting and amusing.
I'm a little surprised that the Wikepedia background doesn't seem to
include any reference to sources that demonstrate this phenomenon
in action, to more sinister ends, in such places as Orwell's _1984_
and Terry Gilliam's "Brazil."
David Loftus
Portland, Oregon
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2004 13:34:34 -0500
From: Richard Pratz <[removed]@[removed];
To: "OTR (Plain Text Only)" <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: Elspeth Eric
Doug Douglass asked if actress/writer Elspeth Eric was still with us.
Sadly, the woman with the unique name, died in 1993 at age 87. She was born
in 1906 in Chicago and was one of radio's busiest actresses throughout the
1940s and 1950s, known for her portrayal of gangsters' girlfriends,
adventuresses, femme fatales, love-blind victims, other women, best friends,
villainesses and cantankerous wives. Few radio actresses utilized vocal
sound effects more expertly than Eric. In her many performances, she gasped,
groaned, sighed and purred to make listeners identify with the character's
reactions. In the 60s she turned to scriptwriting for TV soaps, but between
1974 and 1982 she wrote 82 episodes (and appeared in 7 as an actress) of the
"CBS Radio Mystery Theater." Her list of radio credits as an actress is
lengthy. Some of the better-known programs on which she appeared include
Gangbusters, Inner Sanctum Mysteries, The FBI In Peace and War, Studio One,
The Falcon, Grand Central Station and many more.
Rich
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2004 13:34:55 -0500
From: "GARY SMULLEN" <tsegs@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: "A Christmas Carol" Broadcasts
I'm a little late with this post, but I went back to check an audio
interview with Mercedes McCambridge from the mid-1970's in which she
recalls playing Tiny Tim opposite Lionel AND John Barrymore on a Rudy Vallee
Sealtest Hour on Christmas Eve, 1941. She also recalled giving birth to her
son within four hours of the completion of the broadcast. If this still
exists, it would be a classic version, since it would probably be the last
collaberation of the Barrymore brothers. Anyone ever hear of it? HAPPY NEW
YEAR TO YOU ALL!
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2004 14:03:01 -0500
From: Elizabeth McLeod <lizmcl@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: Re: Unheard Characters
On 12/31/04 12:18 PM [removed]@[removed] wrote:
* Derek already mentioned Vic and Sade. I'm sure Ethel and Albert, the
Easy Aces, and The Couple Next Door--or any serialized show with a
small cast--could count similar cases of oft-mentioned characters who
were never cast.
Correll and Gosden essentially invented this technique in the "Amos 'n'
Andy" serial, using it as a way to get around the fact that they couldn't
do credible female voices. At first most of their unheard characters were
women, and within the first few years of the serial they'd introduced a
number of unheard characters who would remain important figures in the
program for years, including --
Lillian Taylor, Ruby's aunt, who would eventually be revealed as Ruby's
biological mother who couldn't afford to raise her.
Mrs. Carnation James, Madam Queen's ambitious grandmother
Flossie White, the Kingfish's 19-year-old stenographer who scandalously
eloped in 1929 with 67-year-old lodge trustee Pop Johnson.
Sadie Blake, a young beautician who pined with unrequited love for Andy
Dixie Davis -- a flame of Andy's, who fell in love with and married
Lightning in 1932.
Charles Francis Van DeTweezer -- a wealthy Harlem stockbroker and society
leader, who had
little patience with parvenus like Andy, the Kingfish, and Henry Van
Porter.
Mr. and Mrs. George Thomas Washington -- Harlem society leaders and
associates of C. F. Van DeTweezer, but somewhat more approachable.
Senorita Butterfly -- the owner of a Harlem dancing school and former
theatrical partner of Andy's, who married the wealthy Roland Weber in
1934. Upon Weber's death in a car accident later that year, she inherited
his estate -- and developed an unhealthy attraction to Weber's foster son
Amos. After Amos told her, once and for all, to leave him alone she
accidentally killed herself with an overdose of arsenic, and Amos was
arrested and charged with murdering her -- but he eventually discovered
the evidence necessary to clear himself and escape the electric chair.
There were literally hundreds of unheard characters over the fifteen-year
run of the serial. Originally Ruby Taylor and Madam Queen were unheard
characters as well, but the Madam was briefly voiced (by Freeman Gosden)
in 1931 and 1932, and Elinor Harriot joined the regular cast as Ruby in
1935.
Elizabeth
"The Original Amos 'n' Andy" -- Coming in Spring 2005 from McFarland & Co.
[removed]
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2004 14:33:18 -0500
From: skallisjr@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Shadow and Substance
Clif Martin, speaking of an OTR character, notes,
The Sci fi channel ran The Shadow movie Thursday night. Unspeakably
awful. I don't know if it was intentionally campy or it just turned out
that way. Sure was better on radio.
Well, The Shadow movie [and I presume you mean the recent Alec Baldwin
film] tried to synthesize the radio show, the "Maxwell Grant" pulp
fiction, and a comic-book origin. I have it both on VHS and DVD. I grew
up listening to it on the radio. The synthesis of pulp and radio fiction
was pretty good, IMHO, though the origin story was unfortunate.
My mother, who lived to 95, said of the depictions of the era, that it
was perfect. She lived in New York City at the time. We saw it in a
theater, and she was discussing it for a couple of hours later.
And she occasionally listened to the radio show, too.
Stephen A. Kallis, Jr.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2004 14:33:57 -0500
From: "W. Gary W." <wgaryw@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: re: off-mike characters
Kermyt wrote:
Here's a few unheard characters I'd like to propose:
* Grace Allen's mother. Mentioned a lot, but never
seen.
never *seen* is true-- gracie's mother never appeared
on the burns and allen tv show. but i know of at
least one instance where gracie's mother appears in
the radio show, played by verna felton, in
back-to-back episodes: 5/13 and 5/20/48
* Derek already mentioned Vic and Sade. I'm sure
Ethel and Albert, the
Easy Aces, and The Couple Next Door--or any
serialized show with a
small cast--could count similar cases of oft-
mentioned characters who were never cast.
bear in mind i've only heard the commonly circulating
275-or-so "easy aces" programs, but i don't think the
off-mike character was a device goodman ace used. i
can't think of a single example, unless you count
trivialities like jane's sister, whose letters jane
sometimes read on the show. but jane's sister doesn't
really fit the category we're discussing here, as she
wasn't "oft-mentioned", nor was she fleshed out into
anything resembling a character with personality
traits or a history.
Brian L Bedsworth wrote:
I'm going out on a limb to hazard:
--Ida "Mrs. Eddie" Cantor.
I'd have to spend too much time trying to track the
episode(s) down, but I believe Ida was portrayed on-
mike on at least one of the many Burns & Allen
shows dedicated to Cantor's eternal efforts to marry
off one or more of his daughters (usually to Bill
Goodwin). Whether this was an actress playing the
part of Ida or the actual "Sweet As Apple Cider"
lady herself, [removed]
ida isn't in the 10/3/46 show "Marrying Off Cantor's
Daughters" (actually, the plot is to marry one of
cantor's daughters to *meredith willson*, of all
people, not bill goodwin), but she is in the 4/21/49
show about cantor working too hard. i also do not
know if this was actually ida cantor, or an actress
portraying her.
however, i'm sure that it is actually ida cantor who
appears briefly on an episode of "the big show" (i
can't track the date down at the moment). she shows
up to get some advice and encouragement from tallulah
following some sort of major blooper she apparently
made when appearing on a TV show with eddie.
i'm curious, though, if she ever appeared on the eddie
cantor show?
--w. gary w.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2004 15:24:31 -0500
From: <otrbuff@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: Silent figures
Are any of these names familiar?
Ceph Jones
Lem Perkins
Uncle Nabob
Lucy Satterfield
Hezzie
Hoke Weatherby
Widder Perkins
Preacher Batson
Orvy Smithson
Lillie May Fossett
Grandpappy Bustram
Hodge Batts
Miss Lizzie Tinkum
Luke Hodge
Orson Tugwell
Lucifer Hucklehead
Jim Weatherby
Jake Satterfield
Poke Sartin
All were mythical friends of Minnie Pearl -- and of all who were privileged
to tune in the Grand Ole Opry on weekends from the early 1940s to the 1990s.
These characters emanated from Grinder's Switch, Tenn. and were the subjects
of Minnie's (Mrs. Henry Cannon's) rollicking tales of rural life.
Several decades ago I drove over to Grinder's Switch to see what was there.
By then it was little more than a former railway stop and a post office,
situated a few miles west of Nashville near Centerville. In my imagination
it looked as if all those fictitious figures could have come to life there.
They were probably based on locals Minnie had known.
Minnie was born there and graduated from the fashionable girls' finishing
school, Ward-Belmont College, in Nashville in the 1930s. She was interested
in dramatics then. When I was a PR man for Belmont University in those same
buildings years later, she would drive her powder blue Cadillac over to
address the student body during convocation one day each school year. I met
her on one occasion and I found her to be as affable, unassuming and
hilarious in private as she was onstage when she wore her trademark
price-tag yellow hat.
Sarah and Henry Cannon lived next door to the governor's mansion in
Nashville and were close friends with all of the governors, so the reporters
told us (no matter who was currently in power). When the tour buses came
down their street I always suspected that more necks craned toward Minnie's
pretty sizable estate than to the mansion next door which was certainly no
slouch either.
Jim Cox
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2004 15:25:54 -0500
From: "bkidera" <rkidera1@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: Charles Lane
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According to both the Internet Movie Data Base and [removed],
Charles Lane is, indeed, still alive. He will be 100 years old on January
26, 2005. His film career began in 1931 and his most recent credit was from
1995, when he had a role in the movie "The Computer Wore Tennis Shoes"
(funny, I missed that one.) Curiously, the imdb also has a note that some
sources list his brithyear as 1899, which would make him 106 next month.
Bob Kidera
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Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2004 16:45:51 -0500
From: eloyer@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Unheard characters
While I can't remember this specifically to radio there has always been
something very sweet in Jimmy Durante's closing line: "Goodnight Mrs. Calabash,
where every you are."
With a very Happy New Year to all, Ed Loyer
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2004 18:33:13 -0500
From: "Philip Railsback" <philiprailsback@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Re: Unheard of
Here's a few unheard characters I'd like to propose:
* Eddie Cantor's five daughters (?)
I'm pretty sure I've never heard them. But there are so many years of
Cantor's shows that I haven't heard. I've only seen about 80 shows that are
available. I'd love to hear the the earlier shows.
* Grace Allen's mother. Mentioned a lot, but never seen.
On 5/20/48 she appears in "Gracie's Mother Visits". Talks with an Irish
accent.
- Philip
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2004 20:27:09 -0500
From: "bobb lynes" <iairotr@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Gildy's wife
Hi,
In discussing what happened to Gildersleeve's wife (in Wistful Vista),I
believe both Joe Mackey and Jim Harmon have stumbled onto a new entry for
Ben Ohmart's "It's That Time Again" series with OTR folks in new stories!
One the funniest things you've ever written, James.
I'm almost certain that, by this time, Jim has indeed "fleshed out" his
outline and typed it up for the next edition. Need some cover art, Jim?
Bobb
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2004 20:38:52 -0500
From: "bobb lynes" <iairotr@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Artie Shaw obit
Hi,
I first learned of Artie Shaw's death on the 4 o'clock KABC-TV news on
Thursday. The anchor actually pronounced the song as "BEGIN THE BEE-GINE"!
Youth IS wasted on the young.
Bobb
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2004 20:39:32 -0500
From: lynn wagar <philcolynn@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Unheard of
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I have been enjoying the listings on "Unheard of" radio characters. I would
love to hear about some characters from some other shows! Come on everybody
join in!!! Here's one I remember
Duffy on Duffy's Tavern-always on the other end of the phone, but did he ever
have a speaking
part??
Lynn Wagar
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Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2004 20:40:14 -0500
From: George Aust <austhaus1@[removed];
To: OTR Digest <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: Eddie Cantors 5 Daughters
Kermyt Anderson posted:
Here's a few unheard characters I'd like to propose:
* Eddie Cantor's five daughters (?)
I don't know the answer to that but I know that they appeared on television
on at least one occasion. I believe that was on "This Is Your Life" with
Ralph Edwards. There was also a magazine(TuneIn?) layout in Dec. 45 that
featured Eddie with Ida and all five daughters at home.
My wife and I had dinner a couple of months ago with Janet Gari, Eddie's
daughter, and her son Brian Gari. I didn't think of asking if they had
appeared on radio, but I will if I see her again.
George Aust
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2005 00:38:12 -0500
From: davesline@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: The Wistful Vista Triangle
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Happy New Year to All
As much as I hate to disagree with an expert like Elizabeth, I have to tell
you that there is no such thing as a "Wistful Vista Triangle" The answer to
the missing persons is in truth, much simpler. I will list them in the order
I heard them,
1. Gildy's wife had not been happy with her big over grown teddy bear of a
husband so she ran away with a Sanitation Engineer.
2. Alice Married a young minister after the war and raised a family of 6 boys
and 7 daughters. They settled in the Mid west (Where Alice still lives, She's
a widow now) She is now the Grandmother of 32.
3 Boomer turned out to be a spy for Spain and was deported after the war.
4 Lena Ran off and got married and moved to Davenport, Iowa, Where she opened
a Hat Shop.
There is a logical explanation for everything if your just willing to make
one up!
Best wishes in the New Year, Dave Palmer
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------------------------------
Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2005 00:38:52 -0500
From: "Roby McHone" <otr_alaska@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: William L. Shirer
In Ron Sayers' birth and death column for Dec. 28, he lists:
02-23-1904 - William L. Shirer - Chicago, IL - d. 12-28-1993
news analyst: "CBS European News"; "[removed] Shirer: News and Comments"
I have just finished several of William Shirer's books and am reading
another one now. He led an amazing life, he knew so many important people
from Gandhi to Hemmingway and he was a pioneer in broadcasting European news
to the US (mostly from Berlin) during the mid to late 30s.
Does anyone have any of his news broadcasts on tape? If any are available I
would be willing to pay or trade for copies.
I highly recommend his writing to anyone interested in world history in the
20s to the early 40s, he was witness to some pretty important events.
Happy New Year to all!
Roby McHone
Fairbanks, Alaska
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2005 00:39:07 -0500
From: Eric Cooper <ercjncpr@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Jerry Orbach correction
I humbly stand corrected as in my haste I did not note that Jerry Orbach
IS listed in the body and the index of Martin Grams CBSRMT book (well,
it was late last night etc etc, excuses excuses!!) .What is more
embarrasing is that I regularly listened at that time, so I know I heard
the broadcast in 1975. Big Time Mea Culpa to all!!
Eric Cooper
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2005 00:39:57 -0500
From: "WILLIS G Saunders" <saunders8@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: Worst radio shows?
Hi Folks,
Are we talking about the same things when we discuss old-time rradio shows?
I've heard the names of many radio series, but what about individual shows
within one or more series? The two series which, for me, had the lead in
presenting abomitable scripts over several consecutive weeks were "The
Affairs of Ann Scotland" and (excuse me, but my memory's getting like The
Old Gray Mare--it "ain't what it used to be.") either "Allen Drake,
Insurance Investigator" or "The Adventures of Allen Drake, Insurance
Investigator."
I was only ten years old when the Drake show was on for the summer, but by
the time it went off the air, even I was glad to see it go. It started with
a bang and died with a hiss. Toward the end of the series, Drake's partner
was always figuring out the solution, going to the fellon's house without
telling anyone where or why he was going, getting knocked out, and being
stuffed in a private vault. Drake would finally piece the solution
together, tell his secretary where he was going and why, tell her to call
the cops, and arrive just in time to save his partner's life. It was a good
one-shot plot, but the writers worked it to death, especially since the
partner never seemed to learn from his mistakes.
Poor Ann Scotland seemed to have the same problem but in a different way.
The private eyeful started out with some good scripts, but toward the end of
the sseries, all the murderers had the same job--they were cops. No wonder
the LAPD had to have a real over-all housecleaning in the late '40's.
Thanks for putting up with me, and you can delete as much of this as you
like.
Buck Saunders
--------------------------------
End of [removed] Digest V2004 Issue #416
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