Subject: [removed] Digest V2004 #99
From: <[removed]@[removed]>
Date: 3/18/2004 5:18 PM

To: <[removed]@[removed];

    ------------------------------

                                The Old-Time Radio Digest!
                                  Volume 2004 : Issue 99
                             A Part of the [removed]!
                                 [removed]
                                     ISSN: 1533-9289

                                     Today's Topics:

      Dragnet Copyright                     [ "Austotr" <austotr@[removed]; ]
      RIP - Mercedes McCambridge            [ Sean Dougherty <seandd@[removed] ]
      More On McCambridge                   [ Sean Dougherty <seandd@[removed] ]
      3-18 births/deaths                    [ Ron Sayles <bogusotr@[removed]; ]
      E! Coverage of Mercedes McCambridge   [ Sean Dougherty <seandd@[removed] ]
      Dropping pages: 'Remember WENN'?      [ Herb Harrison <herbop@[removed] ]
      Mercedes McCambridge                  [ "Stewart Wright" <stewwright@worldn ]
      Mercedes McCambridge                  [ Richard Pratz <[removed]@[removed]; ]
      Berle's audience                      [ Dan Hughes <danhughes@[removed]; ]
      McCambridge obit                      [ Richard Pratz <[removed]@[removed]; ]
      howdy and hosts                       [ "Mark Kinsler" <kinsler33@[removed] ]
      Cincinnati Convention                 [ "Bob Burchett" <haradio@[removed] ]
      Old time radio web logs               [ "Jim Widner" <widnerj@[removed]; ]
      Uncle Miltie and the dress            [ "Martin Grams, Jr." <mmargrajr@hotm ]
      Here We Go Again                      [ "Martin Grams, Jr." <mmargrajr@hotm ]
      My two cents for three great actors   [ "Marcus Antonsson" <[removed] ]
      Re: Milton Berle                      [ Dorothy Stone <dualxtwo@[removed]; ]
      Re: dropping script pages to the flo  [ Dorothy Stone <dualxtwo@[removed]; ]
      More script pages                     [ Dorothy Stone <dualxtwo@[removed]; ]

    ------------------------------

    Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 09:20:39 -0500
    From: "Austotr" <austotr@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Dragnet Copyright

    G'Day folks, I just thought I would try one more time for this info.  I am
    wanting the name and address of the copyright holder for the Dragnet radio
    series, or their Agent.  The reason is because of a business selling Dragnet
    mp3 episodes on CD.  The business claims they bought the CDs from the [removed] as
    sellout stock and were assured that the series was no longer covered by
    copyright.

    The business owner will pull the CDs if he can confirm that he is indeed
    breaching copyright and he will return them to the seller, I will leave out
    his description of how and where :)  But he wants to do the right thing and
    I want to confirm that I am correct in my belief that the series is actively
    protected by copyright.

    I was certain that Dragnet was on a list of series that Elizabeth McLeod
    posted here a couple of years ago, giving the known copyright details.  But
    I have searched and searched my surviving back issues and cannot find it.  I
    tried emailing Elizabeth direct but haven't had any success as yet.

    Ian Grieve

    ------------------------------

    Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 09:20:53 -0500
    From: Sean Dougherty <seandd@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  RIP - Mercedes McCambridge

    The Associated Press notes the death of Mercedes McCambridge - mentioning
    her "strong, radio-trained" voice.  Strange they didn't pick up the quote
    from Orson Welles about her being the finest radio actress, or something
    along those lines.

    She was one of the last of radio's superstars and will be missed.

    It's unclear from this initial coverage whether she died on March 17 or
    March 18.

    Sean Dougherty
    SeanDD@[removed]

    [removed]

    ------------------------------

    Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 09:21:07 -0500
    From: Sean Dougherty <seandd@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  More On McCambridge

    This longer version of the AP obituary gets a little bit more into her radio
    work.  She was 85 when she died and apparently often was bitter about what
    she considered a mediocre carreer following her Oscar-winning screen debut.

    Sean Dougherty
    SeanDD@[removed]

    [removed]
    [removed]

    ------------------------------

    Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 09:21:19 -0500
    From: Ron Sayles <bogusotr@[removed];
    To: Olde Tyme Radio List <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  3-18 births/deaths

    I just heard on this morning's newscast that Mercedes McCambridge died. If she
    died yesterday, she died on her birthday.

    March 18th births

    03-18-1886 - Edward Everett Horton - Brooklyn, NY - d. 9-30-1970
    actor, host: "Shell Chateau"; "Kraft Music Hall"
    03-18-1893 - George Olsen - Portland, OR - d. 3-18-1971
    bandleader: "Jack Benny Program"; "Royal Gelatin Revue"
    03-18-1905 - Robert Donat - Manchester, England - d. 6-9-1958
    actor, poetry reader: "Justice"; "Monte Carlo"; "Reader of Poetry"; [removed]
    Steel Hour"
    03-18-1911 - Audrey Marsh - NYC
    actress: Esther " Harve and Esther"
    03-18-1911 - Smiley Burnette - Summum, IL - d. 2-16-1967
    host, comedian: "Smiley Burnette Show"; "Hollywood Hotel"
    03-18-1912 - Art Gilmore - Tacoma, WA
    announcer: "Dr. Christian"; "Amos 'n' Andy"
    03-18-1914 - Ben Gage - Chicago, IL - d. 4-28-1978
    actor: Jimmy Gale "Modern Cinderella"
    03-18-1916 - Jody Gilbert - Fort Worth, TX - d. 2-3-1979
    actress: Rosa "Life with Luigi"
    03-18-1926 - Peter Graves -Minneapolis, MN
    actor: "Arthur Hopkins Presents"

    March 18th deaths

    02-09-1892 - Peggy Wood - Brooklyn, NY - d. 3-18-1978
    actress: "NBC Present Eugene O'Neill"; "Great Scenes from Great Plays"; "
    02-14-1904 - Jessica Dragonette - Calcutta, India - d. 3-18-1980
    singer: (Queen of Radio) "Philco Hour Theatre of Memories"
    03-18-1893 - George Olsen - Portland, OR - d. 3-18-1971
    bandleader: "Jack Benny Program"; "Royal Gelatin Revue"
    08-06-1925 - Barbara Bates - Denver, CO - d. 3-18-1969
    writer: "Just Plain Bill"; "Mr. Keen, Tracer of Lost Persons"
    09-04-1895 - Jack Miller - Dorchester, MA - d. 3-18-1985
    conductor: "Kate Smith and Her Swanee Music"; "Aldrich Family"
    11-02-1906 - Peggy Conklin - Dobbs Ferry, NY - d. 3-18-2003
    actress: Kitty Archer "McGarry and His Mouse"; Barbara 'Babs' Riley "Life of
    Riley"
    --
    Ron Sayles
    Milwaukee, Wisconsin

    ------------------------------

    Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 09:21:27 -0500
    From: Sean Dougherty <seandd@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  E! Coverage of Mercedes McCambridge

    This obit mentions Orson Welles' quote about her being "the greatest living
    radio actress."

    [removed],1,13723,[removed]

    Sean Dougherty
    SeanDD@[removed]

    ------------------------------

    Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 09:23:34 -0500
    From: Herb Harrison <herbop@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Dropping pages: 'Remember WENN'?

    Since we're on the subject, does anybody remember when/if/how the cast on
    the TV series "Remember WENN?" handled their script pages?
    It's been quite a while since I saw the program, and I know that there are
    folks here who would argue that it wasn't authentic, but I'[removed]

    Just curious -
    Herb Harrison

    ------------------------------

    Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 09:23:51 -0500
    From: "Stewart Wright" <stewwright@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Mercedes McCambridge

            Today's New York Times is carrying an Associated Press obituary on
    Mercedes McCambridge, who died in the La Jolla area of San Diego on March 2.
    She was 87.

            The obituary is unusual that her radio work is mentioned several
    times.

            If you want to learn more about this fascinating actress, read "The
    Quality of Mercy:  An Autobiography" which was published in 1981.

    Stewart

    ------------------------------

    Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 09:23:56 -0500
    From: Richard Pratz <[removed]@[removed];
    To: "OTR (Plain Text Only)" <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Mercedes McCambridge

    Actress Mercedes McCambridge, active in the three busiest radio broadcast
    centers of the country at their productive peaks, has died. She passed away
    March 2, 2004 in San Diego, California at age 85. Her list of radio credits
    is long. She will be missed.

    Rich

    ------------------------------

    Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 09:54:18 -0500
    From: Dan Hughes <danhughes@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Berle's audience

    Elizabeth says of Milton Berle,

>     ...only 9 percent of American homes had television, and although his
>     program had a whopping 75 percent share of that audience --it was, in
>     total scope, 75 percent of a comparatively *small* audience.

    I think these figures are misleading.  Though only 9 percent of homes had
    TV, there were a LOT of TVless families--mine for example--who were
    invited to homes with TV to view Berle.  There were neighborhood Tuesday
    night parties to watch the Berle show, and I remember going downtown on a
    Tuesday night where dozens of people watched Uncle Miltie through the
    window of [removed] Penney's, where several TV sets were on display.  And this
    was in Minneapolis, which got its NBC affiliate in 1948.

    ---Dan

    ------------------------------

    Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 11:03:29 -0500
    From: Richard Pratz <[removed]@[removed];
    To: "OTR (Plain Text Only)" <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  McCambridge obit

    My earlier post concerning the death of radio actress Mercedes McCambridge
    lists her age as 85 at the time of her death March 2, 2004. Some subsequent
    obituaries, however, list her age at [removed] take your pick. In any case,
    the majority of obits I have seen at least  pay credit to her radio exploits
    with one even quoting Orson Welles once referring to her as "the world's
    finest radio actress."

    Rich

    ------------------------------

    Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 11:07:16 -0500
    From: "Mark Kinsler" <kinsler33@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  howdy and hosts

>     Howdy's television debut on "Puppet Playhouse" was on 27 December 1947,
>     albeit only as a voice hiding in a desk drawer.  Since they didn't have a
>     puppet yet, they pretended for acouple of weeks that Howdy was too shy to
>     come out.

    I didn't know that.  It's great.  I was always impressed with Bob Smith's
    creativity and general resourcefulness.  He seemed always to understand what
    kids would believe and what they wouldn't.  Which is somehow strange,
    because he always seemed to me--even when I was one of those little kids--to
    be someone who never revealed his true character.  I suppose that this is
    the essence of professionalism, but my sister and I always wondered if he
    ever got mad or anything.  Except for Mr Rogers (and I'm not sure about him,
    either) I think this tended to be true for male hosts on most kids' shows.

    Could the impenetrability of children's show hosts be part of the reason
    that the Uncle Don legend is so persistent?

    Did women ever host kids' shows on radio?  I don't ever recall hearing of
    one.

>     The first puppet, generally called "Ugly Howdy," appeared in January 1948
>     and only lasted a couple of months before Frank Paris, the man who made him,
>     walked out in a contract dispute and took the puppet with him.  Howdy,
>     running for President of the Kids, then declared he was having plastic
>     surgery and appeared as a random puppet with a bandaged face for awhile.
>     The puppet that so many of us remember fondly, now residing in the Detroit
>     Institute of Art, debuted in June 1948.

    Again, the creativity.  Darned clever.

    I read, to my great surprise, that the new Howdy was designed by Walt Disney
    Studios.  I didn't know that they accepted outside contracts.

    M Kinsler

    ------------------------------

    Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 12:09:44 -0500
    From: "Bob Burchett" <haradio@[removed];
    To: "[removed]" <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Cincinnati Convention
    X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative
    X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain

    After a few phone calls to the hotel we have the
    room reservations worked out. There are rooms still
    a few available in out block. If you're coming and
    haven't made your reservation I would soon.
    Sorry about the problems a few of you had.
    Bob Burchett

      *** This message was altered by the server, and may not appear ***
      ***                  as the sender intended.                   ***

    ------------------------------

    Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 13:49:29 -0500
    From: "Jim Widner" <widnerj@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Old time radio web logs

    Charlie mentions about his weblog:

>     A bunch of people asked me what a "blog" is. The word "blog" is a
>     corruption of "Web Log," implying a log or diary posted to the World Wide
>     Web, or more accurately a log or diary posted _about_ the Web.

    If you want to see another web log devoted to old time radio to give you
    an idea of what one looks like, you might want to visit Ivan Shreve's
    excellent web log of OTR comments:

    [removed]

    Jim Widner

    ------------------------------

    Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 14:56:36 -0500
    From: "Martin Grams, Jr." <mmargrajr@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Uncle Miltie and the dress

    Someone commented about Milton Berle:

>     He was exactly that, Mr. Television! From 1948-early fifties he was by far,
>     and i do mean by far, THE biggest figure in television. No one rivaled him
>     and it had nothing whatsoever to do with him "dressing in drag" (cant figure
>     that one out), although he DID often dress like a woman as part of certain
>     skits. To my knowlege nothing was made or said of that back then as people
>     seemed to have cleaner minds back then and his actions were just downright
>     funny to millions of viewers.

    Reminds me of the Friar's Roast for Jack Benny around 1955 when Milton Berle
    got on stage (both Berle and Don Rickles were the funniest) and George
    Burns, who was in the audience, commented that Berle was a fag, referring to
    him wearing dresses.  Berle turned to Burns and shouted to the effect, "Hey,
    if I ever switch, boy will you be the first."  After laughter, Berle
    adlibbed, "I'm sorry, you did switch and I wasn't the first."  Clean minds
    went out the door sometime around 1955.
    Martin Grams, Jr.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 14:57:41 -0500
    From: "Martin Grams, Jr." <mmargrajr@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Here We Go Again

    John Collins commented:

>     Thanks to Greg Przywara for telling us that "Here We Go Again" with Bergen
>     and McCarthy and Fibber McGee and Molly was shown on TCM this morning.

    Available on both DVD and VHS in superb picture and sound at
    [removed]
    which caters to OTR on film.
    MG

    ------------------------------

    Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 15:28:31 -0500
    From: "Marcus Antonsson" <[removed]@[removed];
    To: "OTR Digest" <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  My two cents for three great actors

    Hi Gang,
    Today I read in the digest that Mercedes McCambridge had passed away. She's
    the third OTR-great who's left us, within just a few weeks. The others are
    of course, Jan Miner, and Harry Bartell.
    Jan Miner, I really hadn't discovered before, I must have heard her on some
    shows, but without really noticing her. It wasn't until I heard Jerry
    Haendiges' tribute to her on his program "Same time, same station" that I
    realized what a great actress she was. Especially the episode "long
    distance" from "Radio city playhouse" took her straight to my heart, and
    there she'll stay.

    If Jan Miner was new to me, Harry Bartell certainly wasn't. In fact, he was
    one of the first actors I learned to recognize, when I started to collect
    American OTR about ten years ago. One of the first cassettes I bought was
    one with two Rathbone/Bruce's Sherlock Holmes-episodes with Harry as
    anounser, and soon after that, I got an album with mixed OTR-programs, in
    which "Three skeleton key" was included. I don't know how many times I've
    listened to that episode, but it's still a scary listening. After that, I've
    always been a fan of Harry's, and it was always great to hear himī. He could
    play a bad guy, or a good guy, but whatever role he played, he did it fine.

    Mercedes McCambridge I know well from shows like "lights out", and "I love a
    mystery" but her best single broadcast I think is the "Screen director's
    playhouse" version of "Spelbound" where she plays the role that Ingrid
    Bergman played in the movie. In the radio version, McCambridge's leading man
    is Joseph Cotten, and Hitchcock himself is the narator, a brilliant
    production.

    Jan, Harry, and Mercedes are all gone now. I miss them, but I'm very
    greatful that they lived, and for all the wonderful programs they left
    behind.
    May they all rest in peace!

    Regards from Sweden

    Marcus Antonsson

    ------------------------------

    Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 17:37:36 -0500
    From: Dorothy Stone <dualxtwo@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Re: Milton Berle

    My friend and resident guru Elizabeth just posted some data about Milton
    Berle. I never thought I'd have to challenge (nicely) something she said.

>     A few thoughts to add on the current discussion of Milton Berle's TV
>     [removed]

>     While he was indeed a dominant figure in television during the 1948-51
>     era, it's important to keep in mind that the actual number of people who
>     *saw* him during this period was very small: as of 1950, the peak of
>     Berle's popularity, only 9 percent of American homes had television, and
>     although his program had a whopping 75 percent share of that audience --
>     it was, in total scope, 75 percent of a comparatively *small* audience.

    Numbers don't always reflect the actual situation. What I'm about to impart
    is factual, cuz I lived it. :)

    Although, as Elizabeth's facts may be correct that only 9 percent of
    American homes had TV, probably 50% of America watched Berle by imposing on
    those who did have a TV set.  Friends, relatives, probably even folks that
    one was not ordinarily on speaking terms with, were all of a sudden very
    popular if they owned a small black and white TV set. I distinctly remember
    my family going up the block a few houses to my Aunt's house, and there
    might be as many as 10/15 people who dropped in just to watch Berle.

    I betcha that was happening all over the country once word got out about his
    zany antics. Consequently, it motivated people to buy their own TV set so
    they wouldn't have to jockey for position to get close to the small screen.
    :)

    It's been said that Berle did more to sell TV sets that anyone else, and I
    don't doubt it for a second. He was definitely "watched" and "seen" by many
    many more than a small percentage of Americans. Okay, Elizabeth?

    Hal(Harlan)Stone
    Jughead

    ------------------------------

    Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 17:38:42 -0500
    From: Dorothy Stone <dualxtwo@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Re: dropping script pages to the floor

    Ah! Here we go again with the dreaded "dropping script pages to the floor"
    issue.

    HK, recently responded to my statement that;

> >     In my 15 year career appearing as a performer on many network radio
> >     programs, I NEVER, NEVER saw anyone drop pages to the floor during a
> >     broadcast.

    HK, then says.

>     Far be it from me to dispute what Hal experienced, but if you will look
>     at our esteemed listmaster's fund raising disc 001, you will see Jack
>     Benny putting used pages under the stack, but Mary puts them on a table
>     or drops them to the floor!

>     Now returning to lurk mode but staying tuned!

    This is not a cop out, HK, but I was referring to "Professional" radio
    performers. See, Benny did it [removed]:)

    Mary was not a professional radio performer, and hated doing the show due to
    extreme nervousness. Or that was what I had heard. (Right Laura?)

    Maybe she was too nervous to hold them steady in her hand. he probably
    needed the table to stready her quivering legs. So there! :)

    Then, in the same Digest issue, Stephen Davies opined,

>     Maybe people dropped their scripts during the second show when they
>     wouldn't need them again.  If they dropped them during the first show,
>     someone would have to re-collage the pages.

    You betcha, Stephan. BUT!!!!! I say again, (Sheesh!) They simply were not
    dropped to the floor. In all my years in the business I never saw it happen.
    First show, repeat broadcasts, whenever. But since I sure didn't work on
    every radio show, (not by a long shot) it's possible that some idiot thought
    that was the proper way to do it.

>     Didn't people ever clip their scripts to cardboard, page by page, to
>     avoid the rustle?

    The technique we used to "turn" pages was designed to eliminate any paper
    rustling sound. Turning pages is a misnomer. We simply slid the top one
    behind the stack. Besides, one would get a hernia holding up an armfull of
    cardboard backed script pages.

    Can I go now?

    Hal(Harlan)Stone
    Jughead

    ------------------------------

    Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 17:42:26 -0500
    From: Dorothy Stone <dualxtwo@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  More script pages

    Regarding dropping script pages, Laura chimes in with

>     I had to laugh at this post, not because it's a silly question, but

    because I

>     remember the extremely long and drawn-out exchange that it cause the

    last

>     time I saw it come around on this list.

    I've long thought that their is no such thing as a silly [removed] a
    plethora of silly answers and opinions. Laura [removed]

>     The answer is:  yes and no.

    (SNIP)

>     When Jack and Mary are performing side by side, you can see a page turn
>     where Jack puts his page behind the stack, and Mary drops hers on the floor.
>     Personal preference, I guess.

    Personal preference???? Lack of professional training and experience is more
    like it. It would have been frowned on if she was anyone other than Jack's
    wife. One did not, in my experience, have "preferences" regarding mike
    etiquette and proper handling of scripts.

>     But I have noticed that in a few of Jack's scripts as they exist today, there
>     might be a page or two (or more) from someone else's script;  you can tell
>     this by whose name is circled next to their lines.  Don't know if that's from
>     aninnocent mix-up, gathering pages from the floor, or some damage that came to
>     Jack's script, causing him to borrow a page from someone else's for the file
>     copy.

    That's the logical answer. People didn't go around picking up pages from the
    floor to collate them into a whole script.

>     Whenever we've done our recreations, we always put the pages at the back.
>     Having five or more people dropping script pages on the floor makes too much
>     of a mess and risk of slippage.

    See!!!! I told youse guys!!!! Even Laura agrees with me.

    Then I discover the issue is not dead yet. Steve posts

>     As a sometime Jughead myself at the Cincinnati Con, far be it from me to
>     dispute Hal

    Good, don't dispute me.

>     but I first heard of the "script dropping" from Willard Waterman
>     when my wife and I dined with him at the third Cincinnati Con.

     Hmmmm!! Now, get this part. I love it.

>     At least it is my recollection that it was Mr. Waterman who said it. It may
>     well have been one of the other supposedly  knowledgable fans in attendance
>     that evening.

    Now you see how misinformation gets spread around.

>     I do know that I attempted it during one re-creation later on and it made more
>     noise from me just moving around on the pages in front of the mike.

    Now do you doubting Thomas's believe me.

>     I have since found it much easier just to be careful turning pages and most of
>     the tapes I've made of the re-creations show that few people have a big
>     problem with that.

    Unless they are all thumbs. But there is a misconception here. We don't
    "turn" pages.  We slip them aside and "place" them behind the rest of the
    pages when that page of dialogue is finished.

    Then, my good buddy Larry Albert reinforced what I've been saying all
    along.

>     The more things change the more they stay the same. As soon as an actor
>     gets his or her script for Imagination Theatre, they will high lite their
>     part and as soon as we go up for a Mic rehearsal the staples come out. And
>     I'm sure the technique used for turning the pages hasn't changed all that
>     much either.

    <snip>

>     P. S. With today's "hot" Mics the sound of a piece of paper falling on the
>     floor would be incredibly audible.

    Even back in the days of 2 sided Directional mics, Larry. The one advantage
    of the two sided directional mike, is that we'd hold our script hand off to
    the side of the mic, and as we slipped pages one behind the other, there
    was no paper sound.

    Then "Mark Kinsler" posted.

>     I willingly yield to Mr Stone's years of radio exprience,

    God Bless an intelligent man! :)

>     but I think I know where the popular idea of dropping script pages on the
>     floor originated.

>     During one season in the late 1980's, The Prairie Home Companion was
>     telecast as well as broadcast on radio.

    That had to be the idiot film director's fault. He probably though it
    offered good visual interest.  Or, some idiot Producer probably told him
    that's the way they used to do it in the old days.

    99 9/10s of the performers in the business did not drop pages on the floor.
    If someone say they know for a fact it happened, so be it. But it was dumb
    and unprofessional.

    I'm heading for the Cincy Convention soon. If anyone wants to debate me on
    the subject, choose your weapons. I prefer a .350 magnum.

    Hal(Harlan)Stone
    Jughead
    --------------------------------
    End of [removed] Digest V2004 Issue #99
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