Subject: [removed] Digest V2003 #61
From: "OldRadio Mailing Lists" <[removed]@[removed];
Date: 2/8/2003 5:53 PM

To: <[removed]@[removed];

    ------------------------------

                                The Old-Time Radio Digest!
                                  Volume 2003 : Issue 61
                             A Part of the [removed]!
                                     ISSN: 1533-9289

                                     Today's Topics:

      Grapefruit spoons                     [ "Irene Heinstein" <IreneTH@[removed] ]
      The Shadow/Radio shows on sale at Ta  [ Rick Keating <pkeating89@[removed]; ]
      from Grapefruit to Hal to Gildy       [ Shakehip@[removed] ]
      Shiva                                 [ JimBourg@[removed] ]
      Re: A&A's 10,000th Broacast           [ Elizabeth McLeod <lizmcl@[removed] ]
      really beautiful people               [ Maxjo@[removed] ]
      Today in radio history                [ Joe Mackey <joemackey108@[removed] ]
      Re: The Happy Gang                    [ Elmer Standish <elmer_standish@telu ]
      Re: Kudo's from Bryan                 [ hal stone <dualxtwo@[removed]; ]
      MP3 on DVD players and DVD+RWs        [ philipmarus@[removed] ]

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2003 09:25:23 -0500
    From: "Irene Heinstein" <IreneTH@[removed];
    To: "OTR" <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Grapefruit spoons

    Fred Berney wrote, with regard to grapefruit spoons:

>     I can just see this product trying to be sold today. The safety
>     organizations would be jumping all over the manufactures to remove those
>     small teeth.

    Fred, I have and use grapefruit spoons.   You too can buy a grapefruit
    spoon, just like you can buy a grapefruit knife which does the same thing,
    but has sharp "teeth" on both sides.   They just don't spend their
    advertising $$$ on such little things these days.

    ~Irene

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2003 09:24:44 -0500
    From: Rick Keating <pkeating89@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  The Shadow/Radio shows on sale at Target

    In response to my initial query about programs
    included in this collection, Anthony Tollin said:

>     I'd recommended a number of shows for the collection, including the
>     03/13/39 version of "Can the Dead Talk" because of the section where
>     Bill and Agnes are introduced to the radio audience.  RSI's
>     engineers went with the story's 08/27/39 repeat broadcast from the 1938
>     Goodrich summer season which was in better sound quality but didn't include
>     the spot with Johnstone and [removed] However, the show is the complete
>     Goodrich version as broadcast the week of 08/27/39.

    [removed] Now, I'm even more confused. First, I thought
    Goodrich sponsored only one season-- Orson Welles and
    Margot Stevenson in 1938. They had a 1939 season with
    Bill Johnstone, too? Second, if it was a
    Goodrich-sponsored episode, Blue Coal got the credit,
    since the episodes have commercials for Blue Coal. But
    then, I guess that balances out all those Blue
    Coal-era shows that have Goodrich commercials (Unless
    it turns out that those weren't mistakes and Goodrich
    did sponsor some of the Johnstone-era shows).

    And yes, to answer Tollin's other question, I like the
    collection just fine. Some of the episodes
    I already had before (like "The Shadow Challenged"),
    but it was nice to get them in a slightly better sound
    quality.

    Short of buying another collection, how would one get
    the updated booklet?

    As to "The Shadow: Radio's Greatest Man of Mystery" I
    might get that one, too. Again, there are some
    duplicates with what I already own; but on the other
    hand I like "the Man Who Murdered Time."

    But are you saying that "The Black Abbott" and "The
    Ghost Walks Again" are the SAME story, or was the
    basic plot re-worked and/or "tweaked" a bit? If it is
    the same story, how often did "The Shadow"
    re-broadcast an episode, possibly with different
    actors?

    In other news, I stopped at Target today and
    discovered that they were  selling the 20 hour/20
    cassette Radio Spirits collections Old Time Radio's
    Greatest Comedies; OTR's Greatest Shows; Legends of
    Radio The Bob Hope Show; and The Shadow Greatest Radio
    Adventures for $[removed] each.

    They usually sell for $[removed] each (and Radio Spirits,
    of course, sells them in the catalog for $[removed]
    barring a sale).

    I have no idea how long this reduced price will be in
    effect.

    Once upon a time Radio Spirits sold collections that
    offered 30 hours on 20 cassettes for $[removed] Now they
    offer 20 hours on 20 cassettes for $[removed] What's
    wrong with this picture?

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2003 09:26:48 -0500
    From: Shakehip@[removed]
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  from Grapefruit to Hal to Gildy
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    This is a 3 for the price of 1 [removed]

    Fred : THOSE GRAPEFRUIT [removed] I never realized that they had vanished
    from our [removed] what a keen sense of observation you have ! ! !    Then
    again, now-a-days I just eat them like oranges.   The problem is that with
    those spoons, you'd usually get more juice than bulk (unless I never knew how
    to use them.)    (Off topic, my favorite "kiche" device :  the Norwegian
    Cheese Slicer - - I don't know if we have them in the US - - it looks more
    like a carrot scraper and you just scrape it along the top of the cheese, and
    it gives you a perfect slice - - no cutting machine or knives needed.)

    Hal : Thanks for your [removed] I will take it to heart.   Practising on it
    already !  (Been promoting my CD, just catching up with my CD, sorry for the
    belated note of appreciation.)

    Incidentally, on my upcoming CD, I did a subtle tribute to OTR, we did
    SPIDERMAN (of course not an OTR) but I decided to start and end it with some
    sound effects (a brief clip is up at my site) - - (This is extremely rare
    now-a-days since most Jazz musicians are utterly devoid of humor.)   You hear
    the sound of a machine gun, a car juicing up the gast and a siren, then when
    it ends you hear the police car again, sound of breaks, and a car crash.
    (There's actually a brief clip on the opening page of my website - -
    [removed]) - - Incidentally if I ever do another CD I'm toying of
    including the theme to The Great Gildersleeve.

    By the way, as a total side topic, as it is well known, the Great
    Gildersleeve was able to convey every known emotion through that laugh of his
    (my favorite was the "foiled again" one he'd often do at the end of the show
    or when all heck was about to break loose) - - and of course he had so many
    catch phases [removed] for fun, has anyone ever thought of compiling them on a
    website like a brief course in Gilderspeak ? - - I think it would be
    hillarious - - or even a collection of OTR catch phrases (!)

    Ed

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    Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2003 09:25:38 -0500
    From: JimBourg@[removed]
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Shiva
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    In Digest 50 Anthony Tollin refers to a Shadow adventure, "The Curse of
    Shiva". I have an Avenger show named the "Eyes of Shiva". With the Avenger
    being what appears to be an obvious knock-off of the Shadow did shows
    knock-off each others scripts also?

    Jim Bourg

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    Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2003 09:30:43 -0500
    From: Elizabeth McLeod <lizmcl@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Re: A&A's 10,000th Broacast

    On 2/7/03 11:03 PM OldRadio Mailing Lists wrote:

>     The actual episode they used for that scene was, in fact, the 10,000th "Amos
>     'n' Andy" broadcast from November 1952 (22 years after the scene takes
>     place), in which they restaged the duo's origins.

    Except that nothing in that episode is an accurate representation of what
    actually happened in the original broadcasts. A few major discrepancies:

    *Amos and Andy left Georgia in March 1928 not May 1927 (as suggested by
    the Lindbergh newspaper headline read by Andy in the "10,000th Broadcast."

    *Amos and Andy did not go directly to New York from Georgia. They first
    went to Chicago -- which was, in fact, a far more important destination
    point for actual African-Americans in the Great Migration than New York.
    They lived in Chicago for eighteen months, and it was in Chicago that
    most of the program's important early story milestones occured: it was
    there that they met the Taylor family, it was there that they met the
    Kingfish, it was there that they formed the Fresh Air Taxicab Company.
    The partners did not move to New York until the start of the network
    series in August 1929 (a move insisted upon by the network because NBC
    felt that New York listeners would not be interested in a series set in
    Chicago.)

    *Andy did not meet the Kingfish on the street, and the Kingfish was not a
    pickpocket. The partners were introduced to the Kingfish by their
    landlord, Fred Washington, in order to encourage them to join the lodge.

    *The partners did not buy the Fresh Air Taxicab from the Kingfish. They
    bought it for $75 from a Chicago used-car dealer named Jarvis.

    *Amos did not meet Ruby Taylor at church. They were introduced by
    Sylvester, the 19-year-old youth who lived across the street from the
    partners, and who was a friend of the Taylor family. Amos and Ruby did
    not fall in love immediately, although Ruby was clearly interested in
    Amos. Amos was engaged at the time to Mamie Henderson, his childhood
    sweetheart back in Georgia, and his friendship with Ruby ws purely
    platonic until Mamie betrayed him by marrying a traveling man from New
    York about three months after Amos left Georgia. Ruby consoled him during
    his period of grief, and it was then that the couple fell in love.

    *The account of the Breach of Promise case involving Andy and Madam Queen
    is entirely fabricated in the 10,000th episode. Andy was represented in
    the case by a professional, highly effective lawyer named Collins, not by
    Calhoun, who didn't even exist in the series until 1949. None of the
    testimony presented in the episode is taken from the actual 1931 scripts,
    and the outcome of the trial is completely altered: In reality, Amos's
    detective work revealed that the Madam was in fact still married to her
    second husband, who had abandoned her several years before, and had
    married and divorced a third time before becoming engaged to Andy. With
    no legal dissolution to her second marriage, the Madam had no legal
    grounds for an engagement to Andy -- and thus no legal grounds for a
    breach-of-promise case. The Madam's second husband was alive -- and was
    brought to the courtroom by Amos in person as proof of what he'd learned.
    This second husband, Raymond Queen, *was* ultimately lost at sea, but
    this didn't happen until November 1932, while the Madam was in Reno
    pursuing divorce proceedings. It was briefly suggested that the Madam
    would be charged with bigamy as a result of the revelations in the 1931
    trial, but Correll and Gosden quickly abandoned this storyline when it
    generated protests about being inappropriate subject matter for a program
    with a large family audience.

    The complete scripts for the "Breach of Promise" storyline -- 64
    consecutive episodes from 1930-31 -- are available on my website, at
    [removed]~[removed]

    Correll and Gosden were clearly embarrased and upset about the adverse
    reaction to the bigamy storyline -- and it was never again mentioned in
    the series. As a result, the "10,000th Broadcast" version of the story
    has become a persistent OTR myth -- even to the point of being picked up
    and repeated by otherwise reputable historians. Arthur Wertheim, in
    "Radio Comedy," erroneously cites the events in the 1952 broadcast as
    having actually been aired in the original 1931 storyline -- even though
    he had access to the original scripts and could have done the research to
    get it right. Joseph Boskin in "Sambo: The Rise and Demise of an American
    Jester," makes an even graver error: he describes the scene in which Andy
    meets the Kingfish trying to steal his watch, as aired in 1952, and
    *falsifies its source* in his footnotes, claiming the scene actually
    comes from a 1928 script which, in reality, has nothing to do with the
    scene cited. This is the sort of bogus scholarship that makes my own work
    that much more difficult, and it's unfortunately all too common in
    academic writings on A&A.

    One more interesting note about the "10,000th Broadcast." Seven years
    after it aired, the script was recycled for "The Amos 'n' Andy Music
    Hall," serialized out over a week of episodes in August 1959, to
    celebrate Correll and Gosden's 30th year of network broadcasting.

    Elizabeth

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2003 10:40:00 -0500
    From: Maxjo@[removed]
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  really beautiful people
    X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative
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    i find that all the really beautiful people were born in 1935.
    max salathiel
    del city,oklahoma

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    Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2003 10:47:16 -0500
    From: Joe Mackey <joemackey108@[removed];
    To: otr-net <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Today in radio history

>     >From Those Were The Days --

    1924 - John Joseph Carty of the Bell Telephone System spoke in Chicago,
    IL. His speech was carried across the nation on the first coast-to-coast
    radio hookup. An estimated 50-million people heard the speech.

      Joe

    --
    Visit my home page:
    [removed]~[removed]

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2003 13:03:27 -0500
    From: Elmer Standish <elmer_standish@[removed];
    To: Old Time Radio Digest <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Re: The Happy Gang

    With reference to you query about "The Happy Gang", i did a quick
    search using [removed] and used the
    "Pages from Canada" option. It yielded 164 hits and in them you
    should find the information you need.

    One of my memories is of a segment called the "Joke Pot" introduced
    by a jingle (?) which, if memory is correct, went like this:
    "Ready or not, this is the spot, here comes Hughie with the Joke Pot.
    Old or new, come on Hugh, let's see what's cooking in the Joke Pot"

    If any of you are interested in Canadian OTR, the use of [removed]
    might provide more precise information than [removed]

    Regards to all OTR Digest Subscribers ===> ELMER

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2003 16:08:40 -0500
    From: hal stone <dualxtwo@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Re: Kudo's from Bryan

    Bryan posted:

>     One thing I like about the 21st century is all the resources collectors have
>     today to enjoy this hobby . (SNIP) It's great to read all these books written
>     about OTR . I just finished reading Hal Stone's  book  . It was great !  No
>     surprises there ...right?

    Thank you kindly Bryan. A am indeed gratified with the positive responses
    and nice comments about the book from all my fellow "Digesters".

>     Makes you want to find a whole bunch of Archie shows and listen and  listen
>     and  [removed]

    Ooops! Let's not go overboard with enthusiasm. (Besides, I don't get any
    royalties). :)

    You have to keep something in mind. (And it's tied in with the current
    thread about re-makes of formerly popular OTR shows). Our tastes change over
    time, (with maturity, hopefully)... and without question, are influenced to
    a tremendous extent by the "artistic" and/or creative evolution of
    entertainment in all forms of mass media. We won't debate for good or bad.
    But it's a whole new world from those old days.

    When I listen to some of the Archie shows (tapes that fans have sent me), I
    am struck by the similarity between the episodes. Sure, the subject matter
    (plot) might be different, but the formula is the same. Archie gets in and
    out of trouble, (abetted by Jughead), messes around with Veronica to Betty's
    dismay, drives Mr. Andrews to distraction, etc. etc.

    There shows are written for a young (7 to 15) year old audience. They can't
    possible hold any appeal for mature adults with any degree of sophisticated
    tastes. So I don't recommend that anyone, who is not a kid at heart, go
    "find a bunch of shows" to listen to. A few will suffice, to give you the
    flavor of the series, in case you never heard the show before. As to the
    hard core Archie fans that grew up listening to the [removed] Ah!..That's a
    different story. It undoubtedly brings back fond memories of their youth.
    But it is not adult humor by any means, and can't compete with Benny, Allen,
    Fibber, et al.

>     Question for Hal :   Which network had the most popular Saturday line-up ?
>     Was it NBC or CBS  or another network ? I am looking at a few schedules
>     between 1948 and 1950  and I see on NBC Frank Merriwell , Archie Andrews,
>     Meet the Meeks and Smilin Ed MCConnell.   CBS had  Mary Lee Taylor, Let's
>     Pretend and for a time 'Junior  Miss' and even a Saturday edition of
>     'ESCAPE! '

    Whooee! That's a question best answered by the experts among us. I just
    showed up for each Saturday broadcast. I didn't keep score! :)

    All I know is that there was intense competition between the two major
    networks (NBC/CBS), when it came to any time slot, and that definitely
    included the Saturday daytime lineup. (Remember, kids were out of school
    then, so programming was aimed at capturing that market). And the two
    females who headed up Children's Programming at each network were fiercely
    competitive. (I would imagine that, to some extent, their jobs depended upon
    it, or at the very least, affected "salary review" time). It practically
    bordered on paranoia. Madge Tucker for NBC, Nyla Mack for CBS. (I worked,
    off and on, for both of them).

    But once I started playing "Jughead" on NBC's Archie show, I was in the
    "enemy" camp as far as Nyla was concerned. But there would have been a
    scheduling conflict anyway, so no problem. I think "Let's Pretend" was on at
    11:00. "Archie" was in the 10:30 [removed] we were not head to head
    competition. NBC touted the fact that we were the top rated Saturday daytime
    program. I'm sure CBS laid the same claim for "Let's Pretend". There is no
    question in my mind that each was top in their respective time slots.
    How that popularity translated to holding an audience for the entire Sat
    line up could best be answered by other researchers.

>     How many years was the Archie show live versus pre-recorded  I wonder ?
>     I do recall Hal stating  that very early on they had to do another live show
>     forthe west coast . How long did this last ( I forget ) ? Out west Archie was
>     airing at  11AM Pacific Time.

    The Initial broadcasts were always "live". But if you're referring to the
    delayed broadcast for the West coast, I can only rely on an increasingly
    faulty memory. Maybe we did the West Coast feed "live" for the first year or
    two of the shows 9 year existence. Then, magnetic tape (as opposed to
    transcriptions) made recording for Delayed Broadcast practical.

    Incidentally, if anyone is interested, Arthur Anderson wrote a very
    definitive book about "Let's Pretend" (Published by McFarland). I believe
    it's out of print, but I know that Arthur still has some copies available
    that he sells at OTR conventions. Maybe you could find it on E-bay. Arthur
    and I traded copies of each others book. :)

    I cover the competitiveness between the Networks fairly extensively in my
    book. But as far as we kid performers were concerned, we didn't get caught
    up in it. It didn't matter who hired us. The color of the money was the
    same. And for the most part, we were all friends, although we often competed
    for the same parts.

    By the way, as most of you know from my earlier postings, I made the
    transition from actor to TV director. I retired from that activity (happily)
    in 1980. But I'm still interested in the state of the art, and am always
    amazed at the production values that are available today.

    This really doesn't relate to OTR, and is slightly off topic. But I must
    say, after being in the business for almost 50 years, I am always thrilled
    when I see some rare spectacular form of entertainment. Yesterday, my wife
    and I went to see the film musical "Chicago". We had a lump in our
    collective throats throughout, (and tears of joy), at the incredible
    creativity, lighting, camera work, editing, performances, and of course,
    direction. The production values blew our minds. Go see it.

    We saw the stage production on Broadway a few years back, and thoroughly
    enjoyed the music and staging. The film is 10 times better. If it doesn't
    walk away with a ton of Academy Awards, there is something wrong.

    Hal(Harlan)Stone
    Jughead (& Author) :)   [removed]

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2003 19:49:16 -0500
    From: philipmarus@[removed]
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  MP3 on DVD players and DVD+RWs

     This may have been covered in digest before but I wanted to report with what
    success I have had.

    Some months ago my RIO VOLT was stolen out of my car. In seeking to find a
    replacement, I went with a APEX-1201 DVD player which is available at most
    Wal Marts for around $55. I have good success with this unit - I've only
    found one or two old time radio shows in mp3 that it would not play. These
    were shows that were encoded in stereo instead of mono 32/22. Upon
    re-sampling them I subsequently got them to play. I had previously owned a
    Philips Home Theater system which does play mp3s but has trouble with old
    time radio shows since it "skips" no doubt because it requires a sample
    frequency of 32 instead 22 that most OTR shows are encoded at.
    Since I already had the philips system I run the APEX through my AUX of my
    PHilips receiver and then turn TV off after selecting the shows I want to
    listen to when I go to bed. The unfortunate thing is the Philips can FF
    through mp3 but APEX can't. However, since I would have re-sample all my
    shows to at least 32 from 22 I can live without it.

     What I have found really interesting to do plaing mp3 off a DVD+RW disc. I
    added a SONY DVD+RW burner thanks to a afer christmas clearance sale about a
    month ago for around $249. I can dump aproximately 700 mp3 shows onto DVD+RW
    and then play them back in the APEX without trouble. Since RWs can be burned
    and re-written to again and again I find this a handy way to make "play
    discs". I Just burned a DVD+RW with a complete set of three of my favorite
    shows on one DVD+RW disc. I can erase it and make another "play disk" of my
    favorites. I realize this is not for everyone, but I have found it enjoyable.
    I use the philips receiver as my audio since I already had it, and is my way
    turning the "tv off" to prevent excessive wear on my tv. I'm sure their other
    ways. The APEX DVD player does have screen saver built into it, but I only
    never noticed it working when the unit is playing, only when it is idle with
    menu on screen.

    Mike Kerezman

    --------------------------------
    End of [removed] Digest V2003 Issue #61
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