Subject: [removed] Digest V2007 #148
From: [removed]@[removed]
Date: 5/19/2007 4:18 AM

To: [removed]@[removed]

    ------------------------------

                                The Old-Time Radio Digest!
                                  Volume 2007 : Issue 148
                             A Part of the [removed]!
                                 [removed]
                                     ISSN: 1533-9289

                                     Today's Topics:

      More on DAT (for Mark and others)     [ Ken Greenwald <radio@[removed]; ]
      DAT fragility                         [ "Jerry Haendiges" <jerryhaendiges@c ]
      Need answer as to why this happens    [ [removed]@[removed] ]
      Cinnamon Bear Brigade                 [ jack and cathy french <otrpiano@ver ]
      Mid Atlantic Antique Radio club in t  [ seandd@[removed] ]
      Suspense books                        [ "Charles Salt" <charles_salt@hotmai ]
      Barbara Jo Allen (Vera Vague)         [ Bhob Stewart <bhob2@[removed]; ]
      DATs                                  [ mmartini@[removed] ]
      Hollywood Walk of Fame                [ <verotas@[removed]; ]
      Abraqtions & Digital                  [ Frank McGurn <[removed]@sbcglobal. ]
      5-19 births/deaths                    [ Ronald Sayles <bogusotr@[removed] ]

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 07:31:23 -0400
    From: Ken Greenwald <radio@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  More on DAT (for Mark and others)

    Thanks for your interest, Mark.
    I am not a technical person and do not have at my fingertips the
    various mathematical figures, the percentages, the plus and minus of
    the various problems with DAT.
    But I do know a few things from various recording engineers who have
    had to deal with DAT taping. In order to make comment on DAT, I want
    to comment on TAPE as a total medium.
    Tape has been with us a long time; used commercially in the USA since
    1947. That was open reel tape. The various sizes came in the form of
    2 inch tape all the way down to 1/4 inch tape. Stretching and
    shrinking, misalignment of the heads, tape guides askew, not to
    mention single motor tape recorders being off speed --- all this
    contributed to open reel tape problems. Then, along comes the amazing
    audio cassette. Manipulating the electronic signal on such a small
    sized tape and perfecting a finer oxide and binding material,
    cassettes looked like they were here to stay, even with the warped
    cassette cases, the stretched and shrinking tape itself. People often
    recorded on cassette for preservation of their radio shows.
    Sometimes, when going back to listen to a precious cassette some
    years later, it doesn't run right, the sound is off, it's muffled
    and, in general, the show is ruined. So again, another tape medium
    was shown to be the wrong form for preserving radio shows.  Plus, if
    you play a cassette enough times, it wears itself out because the
    cassette housing is plastic, small and subject to wear much easier
    than an open reel tape which is guided through the tape recorder by
    all steel parts (guides, heads, etc) - and those steel parts last a
    long time before wearing out. More than likely the tape in an open
    reel and in a cassette will wear out first.
    I think you are beginning to see what I am getting at. It's tape
    that's the problem. Not the machines that play them.
    Now, along comes DAT -- Digital Audio Tape. A great medium because,
    unlike analog recording, DAT tapes produce no tape hiss, no matter
    how many times you make copies. Instead,  after a while, you end up
    with tape artifact noise, which deals with the Zeros and Ones and how
    they are recorded. (I won't go into that here - too long to describe)
    Again, the tape is in a little plastic housing, which is subject to
    heat and cold, stretching and shrinking. The tape is pulled from the
    housing and laid across a rotating head. The guides for this
    extremely thin, small tape have to be exactly precise so that the
    spinning heads which read the Zeros and the Ones travel exactly
    across the recorded path. Any stretching or  shrinkage of the tape
    disrupts the tape path and the spinning heads can miss any number of
    recorded Zeros and Ones. You end up with no sound at all. Just a drop
    into silence.
    Tape, the flexible medium that has been with us so long has not
    always stood the test of time. The tapes that seem to last the
    longest are 1/4 inch open reel tapes that have been stored in a
    constant temperature of 55 degrees. I know because I worked for the
    Getty museum restoring audio tapes for them and ALL their tapes, not
    matter what size or length, are stored at exactly 55 degrees, all
    year round in special rooms that are powered by special equipment
    that will continue to work even if the electricity of the city goes out.
    Now, do most of us have such a means of storing tape?I don't think
    so. I certainly don't. Which means that all tapes we own, including
    DAT tapes, are always subject to temperature changes, all year round.
    In time, this takes its toll, especially on the small, thinner tapes
    --- as in cassettes and DAT tapes.

    That is as simple as I can put it. I should mention that, in 1994,
    the archivists of the National Archives and The Library of Congress
    in Washington, had a conference specifically designed to discuss
    nothing but the preservation of material on various mediums. Their
    conclusion was that there were only two mediums that would last a 100
    years:  Aluminum based acetate discs (Electrical Transcriptions) and
    1/4 inch open reel tape recorded monophonically at 15 ips, full
    track, recorded one way and with tails left out. I have since heard
    that the CIA has transferred all pertinent recordings over to 12 inch
    acetate recordings and stored at (you guessed it!) 55 degrees. I
    cannot verify this information.

    So, Mark, without getting technical, I hope I have covered a bit on
    why -- in the long run -- preserving on DAT tape (or any other tape)
    for extremely long periods of time is NOT the way to go.
    As for CDs, it's a toss up. Not enough time has passed to prove they
    will last a hundred years. Although there was a time that TDK sold CD
    blanks with the guarantee their CDs would last 100 years. Their
    statement made no reference on how to store them. Then, they retraced
    their 100 year guarantee.
    Well, I guess nothing is permanent. Not even us. But we can certainly
    try to keep radio shows going as long as possible.

    I'm open to any further info and rebuttals.

    Thanks for lending me your eyes and ears.

    Ken Greenwald

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 07:33:41 -0400
    From: "Jerry Haendiges" <jerryhaendiges@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  DAT fragility

>     I'm surprised that digital audio tape (DAT) would be so precarious.
>     Most of the digital tape formats are quite redundant, incorporating
>     algorithms for error detection and correction as well as arrangements
>     that'll help reconstruct noise bursts and framing errors.  Certainly CD's
>     are quite robust, and I'm surprised that DAT cassettes (if indeed this is
>     the medium Bob Hope's archivists used) aren't similarly formatted.
>     And so I wonder: have DAT cassettes proven unreliable?  I agree that I'm
>     more comfortable with analog

    	Yes!  Ken's statement is dead-on target.  When I first read Ken's
    message and then the above response, I had to chuckle a bit.  If my good
    friend, Carl Amari is reading this, I'm sure he will be chuckling somewhat
    also, although at the time, it certainly wasn't very funny.  As most of you
    know, we supply programs to Radio Spirits.  When Carl owned the company, he
    initially used open reel tapes.  When Digital Audio Tape (DAT) came into
    existence, he switched over completely to that format.  Carl was always
    dedicated to supplying his customers the highest audio quality possible and
    DAT certainly seemed to be an ideal answer to archiving the material.  After
    all it had far more frequency response than one ever needed and best of all,
    being a digital format, there was no perceptible generation loss.

         I was fortunate (or maybe unfortunate) enough to have tried a digital
    format in the late 1980's developed by Sony.  The system used PCM (Pulse
    Code Modulation) recorded onto six tracks of a standard Sony 8mm
    Videocassette.  The recorders I used were Sony's EV-700u. The system didn't
    last very long because it only had a maximum frequency of 15 kHz.  The music
    industry, for which the format was intended, didn't feel this was high
    enough, although it was perfect for radio programs.  As mentioned earlier,
    there was no generation loss and each little cassette held 6 hours of audio
    (12 hours if recorded on monaural tracks.   Well, I recorded about 80,000
    programs to this format before I began to realize there was a problem.
    Every once in a while I would notice a slight "buzz" in the sound.  As the
    tapes got older or were used more often, the buzz got worse and there would
    even be gaps in the sound output.

    	I told Carl about this problem and that I felt this would always be
    a problem with any digital format recorded on magnetic tape.  In 1997, when
    we began recording to audio CD, I recommended that he switch over to CD from
    DAT.  He decided to stick with the DAT format as his entire collection was
    now on that format.  I told him that was fine, but just remember I will
    always have my analog masters :-)  Well, to make an already long story a
    little shorter, it wasn't long before his engineers began seeing the same
    problems I had experienced some ten years earlier and began asking for
    replacements for programs I had supplied them earlier on DAT.  I always had
    great respect and admiration for Carl's engineers.  Between us, we
    eventually convinced Carl to go with the CD format.

    	Now, there are two things going on here.  First of all, any digital
    format is subject to corruption even under the best of conditions.  But in
    the case of being recorded to tape, you have the added problem of tape wear,
    deterioration and stretching.  When this happens with analog recordings, the
    most that will occur will be minor dropouts and a change in the speed of the
    program, again minor and easily correctible.  But not in the case of
    Digital, which isn't real sound at all, but rather nothing but a series of
    Ones and Zeros, which is later translated into the original sound.  So,
    whereas a slight stretch in the tape (and ALL tape will stretch) will have
    only a slight, usually imperceptible audio flaw, digitally recorded tape
    will have major flaws ranging from what's called "digital buzz," which is
    very annoying, to complete loss of audio.  None of this is fixable.

    	I think any audio engineer that has used much DAT for any length of
    time will tell you he's had the same experience.

    	The redundant error detection and correction circuitries used in DAT
    recorders (and they certainly are extensive) are there out of necessity to
    allow recording to the tape and overcoming the inevitable manufacturing
    defects of the tapes.  They have nothing to do with the playback of a later
    damaged tape.

    	So, whereas DAT is an excellent mastering format, in my opinion, it
    should NEVER be used as an archival format.  Actually, with the low cost of
    very large hard drives today, there really is no reason anymore to use DAT.
    The last couple of 500 gig drives I purchased were under $[removed]  As with
    any digital format, redundancy is very important.  I always archive
    redundant to two different drives.

    	I do want to make it clear that I am not saying that I feel analog
    is better than digital, quite the opposite.  But it is highly important to
    have redundancy, the more the better.

    	If you'd like me to expand on this, please let me know.

         Jerry Haendiges

         Jerry@[removed]  562-696-4387
         The Vintage Radio Place   [removed]
         Largest source of Old Time Radio Logs, Articles and programs on the Net

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 09:24:27 -0400
    From: [removed]@[removed]
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Need answer as to why this happens
    X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative
    X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain

    I periodically acquire mp3 files of  OTR or professional conference
    recordings.  Sometimes they play in my mp3 cd player, other times they
    only play in my computer.

    The cd's that only play in my computer all have the ".mp3" suffix but
    there are other non-mp3 files on the  cd.  I thought that was what was
    throwing my cd-mp3 player off.

    If I burn only the mp3 files to a  cd and then insert it into a cd-mp3
    player, it still doesn't work.

    I had a brainstorm- - for what's it's worth, re-convert the mp3 files to
    mp3 format and then burn the file.  When I do this I receive an error
    message which simply states that "all of the metadata was not transferred"
    (whatever that means).  But who cares- - it now plays when I put it into
    the cd-mp3 player.

    What's happening here?

      *** This message was altered by the server, and may not appear ***
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    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 09:24:50 -0400
    From: jack and cathy french <otrpiano@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Cinnamon Bear Brigade

    On Friday, May 18, 2007, at 07:42 AM, Don Jensen wrote:

>     Even with help from Dennis and a devoted Portland woman, Carolyn, the
>     efforts to keep the Cinnamon Bear Brigade were too much for me.  And
>     so, after 1991, the Brigade disbanded.

    I think Don meant to say "the Cinnamon Bear Brigade went into
    hibernation."

    Jack French
    Editor: RADIO RECALL
    <[removed]>

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 09:25:32 -0400
    From: seandd@[removed]
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Mid Atlantic Antique Radio club in the news
    X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative
    X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain

    This article is on a museum of old radios and televisions in Maryland.

    [removed]

    Also, the Historical Society in Aurora, apparently somewhere near Denver, is planning an evening tribute to [removed] here:

    [removed]~[removed]

    Sean Dougherty
    SeanDD@[removed]

      *** This message was altered by the server, and may not appear ***
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    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 10:26:59 -0400
    From: "Charles Salt" <charles_salt@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Suspense books

>     Someone posted a query about the two SUSPENSE books.

    Thanks Martin, for taking time to reply to my Suspense question. I can see
    now that I will have to get all three books as they all sound good!

    Regards,
    Charles

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 10:27:31 -0400
    From: Bhob Stewart <bhob2@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Barbara Jo Allen (Vera Vague)

    With so many posts re Bob Hope, maybe I can get an answer to
    something I've wondered about for years. Barbara Jo Allen's Vera
    Vague was a hugely successful and popular character of the 1940s.
    This is especially evident in the film of her performing with Hope at
    some military base and getting a great reaction from the audience.

    Yet when Hope moved to television, she was dropped. To say that she
    had grown tiresome or that Hope wanted the focus on his female guest
    stars is an easy (and vague) answer re her absence. Given the
    continual popularity of Barbara Jo Allen's character, why didn't Hope
    feature her on his television shows? (Her own 1952-53 TV shows
    apparently didn't score big.) Is there a solid answer for this or
    does it remain a mystery?

    Bhob @ [removed]

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 13:32:38 -0400
    From: mmartini@[removed]
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  DATs

    Hi all,

    Let me briefly second and third any commentary about the short-lived and
    fragile DAT format and offer a little advice.  We, too, were snookered into
    exclusively using DATS for archival purposes during the 1990's.  By 2000 we
    realized that about 10-percent would no longer play.  Since then, we've been
    transfering like crazy, hoping to get as much as possible before the
    percentage increases.  Luckily our policy is and always has been to retain
    the original source media as technology is always changing.

    Now the advice:  if you're in "transfer mode," like we have been, we've
    discovered that the longer the DAT, the more likely the failure.   120's are
    notorious for failure while 60's aren't quite so bad.  (90's in the middle).
    So prioritize by length, if you can.

    -Mike

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 13:32:53 -0400
    From: <verotas@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Hollywood Walk of Fame

    I'm hoping someone reading this is a somewhat accomplished photographer in
    the Hollywood-Los Angeles area, who can help me.

    I am seeking photos of the "Walk of Fame" sidewalk stars for Arthur Godfrey.
    I am told that one of them is at 6233 Hollywood Blvd.  I think the Walk of
    Fame office at the H'wood C of C can provide addresses for the others.  There
    are three for Arthur Godfrey, one each for Radio, TV and Recordings.

    Anyone who can help, please contact me direct at:
    verotas@[removed]

    Also always looking for candid snapshots of Mr. Godfrey.
    Thank you so much - Bestus from Lee Munsick      That Godfrey Guy

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 20:27:56 -0400
    From: Frank McGurn <[removed]@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Abraqtions & Digital

    First of all a;lot of those who contribute to the Digest use aerations
    the only one I'm sure of is OTR I'm not good at guessing.

    Second topic is digital and complaimts about quality of recording of OTR
    shshows. I don't use disks of any kind, not because I can, but why
    change. I use my tape for my [removed] someone want a copy of  a show
    I send a cassette.

    I started using cassettes in 1971, when you had to look for a store that
    sold then. There weren't to many. My source of OTR was the radio. In the
    70's I was  reaching for the radio signal, but as more station carried
    OTR they ere closer to me and my quality improve.
    So I have been retyping my earlier shows. I have spent one cent for an
    OTR show. I have gotten them off the radio or buy trading.
    My quality is as good as the FM stations quality, or what I copy of the
    computer. I have over [removed] shows that I selective copied. I don't want
    Soaps or kids shows, although I have a few for historical reference.
    I buy good quality tape, 62 minutes, for about 14 cents and a few cents
    for a plastic box.

    The quality of my recordings is good as it was in 1971,after 36 years.

    Frank McGurn

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 23:06:06 -0400
    From: Ronald Sayles <bogusotr@[removed];
    To: Olde Tyme Radio Digest Digest <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  5-19 births/deaths

    May 19th births

    05-19-1870 - Wright Kramer - Somerville, MA - d. 11-14-1941
    actor: Walter Jamison "Showboat"
    05-19-1894 - Henry Busse - Magdeburg, Germany - d. 4-23-1953
    orchestra leader: "Fitch Bandwagon"; "Spotlight Bands"
    05-19-1895 - Harry Saxe - Montreal, Canada - d. unknown
    actor: Daddy Warbucks "Little Orphan Annie"; Dr. Burr "Mryt and Marge
    05-19-1906 - Bruce Bennett - Tacoma, WA - d. 2-24-2007
    actor: "Proudly We Hail"
    05-19-1910 - Wayne Nelson - d. 2-xx-1984
    announcer: "The Camel Caravan"; "The Ted Lewis Show"
    05-19-1913 - Warren Asher - d. 1-xx-1984
    disk jockey: WFOR  Hattiesburg, Mississippi
    05-19-1919 - George Auld - Toronto, Canada - d. 1-8-1990
    bandleader: "Saturday Night Swing Session"

    May 19th deaths

    02-02-1915 - Frank Telford - d. 5-19-1987
    producer: "This Is Our Enemy"
    02-09-1891 - Ronald Colman - Richmond, Surrey, England - d. 5-19-1958
    actor: William Todhunter Hall "Halls of Ivy"; "Jack Benny Program"
    02-12-1867 - Joe E. Howard - NYC - d. 5-19-1961
    singer, composer: "Gay Nineties Revue"
    03-14-1913 - Jay Barney - Chicago, IL - d. 5-19-1985
    actor: Bugsy O'Toole "The Romance of Helen Trent"
    03-25-1913 - Prescott Robinson - Montreal, Canada - d. 5-19-1999
    newscaster: "Eight O'Clock Morning News on Mutual"
    03-31-1915 - Henry Morgan - NYC - d. 5-19-1994
    comedian: "Here's Morgan"; "Henry Morgan Show"
    05-07-1895 - Thomas Darcy, Jr. - Vancouver, WA - d. 5-19-1968
    conducted the United States Army Band on CBS during the 1938 season
    06-14-1907 - Nappy Lamare - New Orleans, LA - d. 5-19-1988
    jazz guitarist: "The Bob Crosby Show"
    06-17-1921 - Earl Hammond - NYC - d. 5-19-2002
    actor: "Coounterspy"; "Martin Kane, Private Eye"
    07-29-1869 - Booth Tarkington - Indianapolis, IN - d. 5-19-1946
    writer: "Maude and Cousin Bill"
    08-19-1902 - Ogden Nash - Rye, NY - d. 5-19-1971
    poet: "Three Ring Time"; "Kaleidoscope"
    11-16-1916 - Daws Butler - Toledo, OH - d. 5-19-1988
    actor: "Sears Radio Theatre"; "Stan Freberg Show"; "That's Rich"
    11-21-1904 - Coleman Hawkins - St. Josephs, MO - d. 5-19-1969
    tenor sax: (Father of the tenor sax) "Saturday Night Swing Club"
    12-12-1913 - Winston Burdette - Buffalo, NY - d. 5-19-1993
    newscaster: (protege of Edward R. Murrow) "CBS World News Round Up"

    Ron Sayles

    --------------------------------
    End of [removed] Digest V2007 Issue #148
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