Subject: [removed] Digest V2004 #397
From: [removed]@[removed]
Date: 12/15/2004 10:19 PM
To: [removed]@[removed]

------------------------------


                            The Old-Time Radio Digest!
                              Volume 2004 : Issue 397
                         A Part of the [removed]!
                             [removed]
                                 ISSN: 1533-9289


                                 Today's Topics:

  11-2004 deaths                        [ Ron Sayles <bogusotr@[removed]; ]
  Re: The Decline and Fall of Fred All  [ "Brian L Bedsworth" <az2pa@[removed]; ]
  Re: OTR novels and movies             [ StevenL751@[removed] ]
  Fred Allen-What's My Line Appearance  [ "tlones" <tlones@[removed]; ]
  Fred Allen                            [ "evantorch" <etorch@[removed]; ]
  Fred Allen                            [ "A. Joseph Ross" <lawyer@attorneyro ]
  #OldRadio IRC Chat this Thursday Nig  [ charlie@[removed] ]
  fred allen                            [ Michael Berger <intercom1@attglobal ]
  Re: Allen's Final Years               [ Elizabeth McLeod <lizmcl@[removed] ]
  OTR related fiction                   [ "Jim Widner" <widnerj@[removed]; ]
  fiction books or movies re OTR        [ "HOWARD BLUE" <khovard@[removed]; ]
  Re: copyrighted radio sounds          [ "Rodney W Bowcock" <[removed]@ ]
  Re: OTR movies                        [ "Rodney W Bowcock" <[removed]@ ]
  Fibber's closet                       [ "joe@[removed]" <sergei01@earthli ]
  Frances Chaney                        [ "Bob Scherago" <rscherago@[removed]; ]
  Just in time for holiday giving       [ Art Chimes <achimes@[removed]; ]
  Fred Allen                            [ "Bob Burchett" <haradio@[removed] ]
  Article on OTR                        [ seandd@[removed] ]
  FOTR 30th                             [ seandd@[removed] ]
  12-16 births/deaths                   [ Ron Sayles <bogusotr@[removed]; ]

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 23:15:54 -0500
From: Ron Sayles <bogusotr@[removed];
To: Olde Tyme Radio List <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  11-2004 deaths

The following Olde Tyme Radio personalities who are on my list have died in
the month of November.

11-07-1916 - Joe Bushkin - NYC - d. 11-3-2004
jazz pianist: "Saturday Night Swing Club"; "Eddie Condon's Jazz Concert"
04-13-1919 - Howard Keel - Gillespie, IL - d. 11-7-2004
actor: "Lux Radio Theatre"
10-29-1921 - Ed Kemmer - Reading, PA - d. 11-9-2004
actor: Buzz Corey "Space Patrol"
09-24-1919 - Dayton Allen - NYC - d. 11-11-2004
actor: Phineas T. Bluster/Flubadub "Howdy Doody"; "Words at War"
06-23-1917 - Norman Rose - Philadelphia, PA - d. 11-12-2004
narrator: "Dimension X"
06-14-1929 - Cy Coleman - NYC - d. 11-18-2004
jazz pianist, composer: "Cy Coleman at the Piano"; "Voices of Vista"
08-03-1925 - Billy James Hargis - Texarkana, TX - d. 11-27-2004
preacher: Broadcast his ministry on more than 500 radio stations.

Ron Sayles
Milwaukee, Wisconsin

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 23:17:47 -0500
From: "Brian L Bedsworth" <az2pa@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  Re: The Decline and Fall of Fred Allen

"A. Joseph Ross" <lawyer@[removed]; suggested:

It occurs to me that nobody ever forced Jack Benny to do a
format other than what he liked to do.  And it strikes me that
this is because Benny's numbers were always high, and Benny
could and did take his show to another network when he was
dissatisfied.

Benny didn't leave NBC because of any dissatisfaction with his business or
creative arrangements there; he left because the lawyer the network sent to
negotiate a new arrangement with him upon the expiration of Benny's
personal-services arrangement with the network was a man who, as a
prosecutor a decade earlier, had tried to put Benny (and pal George Burns)
in =prison=.

He =did= leave General Foods after the 1943-44 season because of creative
differences (listenership dropped substantially upon Dennis Day's departure
that spring, but company execs supposedly blamed the show's dip out of the
top spot in the Hoopers on the large number of shows played on military
bases around the country and the accompanying change in tone from a
general-audience program to one more serviceman-focused; Benny obviously
differed and put his agents to work finding a sponsor who would not
interfere in any way with the program proper).

I don't know Fred Allen's numbers, but I'm under the impression that they
were never as
high as Benny's.  He could always, at any point, have sought other ad
agencies or other
networks who would let him do what he wanted,

He did that upon his year-long medical hiatus in 1945. However -- and
naturally -- potential advertisers wanted Allen to return in the format that
had been so successful for him, and his public profile was never as high as
it was in the two half-hour Texaco seasons in the "Benny" format (which
wasn't really anything like Jack's show, having more of a rote Bob Hope
"Pepsodent" format than the far more freewheeling Benny show).

Now, if he really did not want to write and perform the "Allen's
Alley"-and-a-sketch-with-a-guest format, the very =last= thing he should
have done was come up with the Senator Claghorn character; with such a
wildly popular creation, there was no way for Allen to get out of the format
he supposedly despised so.

What's more, Allen had the chance to move on before the Stop The Music
debacle wiped him out in the late 40s, when he could have signed with any
other network at the time of the great network jumps. As much as he
supposedly despised NBC and its legions of meddling VPs, he chose to sign a
long-term personal-services deal with that network rather than try something
fresh somewhere new.

(Of course, as it turned out, Fred =did= get the chance to try something new
at NBC several years later -- after a year of semi-retirement -- when
Goodman Ace tapped him to write for and perform as a rotating star in the
network's last-gasp extravaganza, The Big Show.)

or he could have quit radio altogether.  But if his numbers were as
good as Benny's, he could have done whatever format he wanted.

Jack once mused that he could never get very deeply into Fred's mind, that
he never understood how a man could be that successful and that miserable at
the same time. However, I think we all know people who are never satisfied
without a high level of misery and/or drama in their lives, without
something or someone against which to rail. Fred may well just have been one
of those people who isn't happy unless he isn't happy.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 23:51:02 -0500
From: StevenL751@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Re: OTR novels and movies

In a message dated 12/14/2004 11:18:26 [removed] Eastern Standard Time,
[removed]@[removed] writes:

Are there any good fiction books or movies that those of you on the  list
would recommend where OTR plays a significant role?

In  Books:

"The Tallulah Bankhead Murder Case" by George Baxt, in which Tallulah gets
involved with a murder while trying to get through the second season of THE
BIG
 SHOW.

"Two O'Clock Eastern Wartime" by John Dunning

In Movies:

"Radio Days" (1987) directed by Woody Allen.

"Radioland Murders" (1994) - story by George Lucas.  A very funny  farce that
takes place at a radio station in 1939.   George Burns  plays a small part in
his final film role.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 03:31:27 -0500
From: "tlones" <tlones@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  Fred Allen-What's My Line Appearances On GSN

According to my figuring (which can be corrected) Fred Allen's Regular
appearances On What's My Line  began September 26, 1954. (His first Panel
appearance was about a month before).Game Show Network will be Showing
October 4, 1953 (Mystery Guest:Gene Autry) Late Tuesday-Early Wednesday
morning. (Dec. 15, 2004)  .If they show all of the shows in order (barring
any last minute [removed] GSN will do a tribute of a recently
passed celebrity and will skip a What's My Line episode)..Fred's regular
appearances should start around February 1st, 2005.

Tim Lones

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 03:31:51 -0500
From: "evantorch" <etorch@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  Fred Allen

The demise of Fred Allen's show was the end of radio humor which could stand
on it's own merit on the written page. Like all true idealists, he simply
coul not endure the middling intellects and hackneyed business types who
populated the network executive corps.
Ultimately, he could not compromise, and the need for rapid-paced less
substantive humor ascended the throne in radio.
Evan Torch
Atlanta
etorch@[removed]

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 03:32:06 -0500
From: "A. Joseph Ross" <lawyer@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Fred Allen

From: Dixonhayes@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]

I guess that answers my question about why CBS didn't exactly snap
Fred Allen up in '49 when NBC let him go.  I think a move would've
reinvigorated him, especially if he had creative control to come and
go as he pleased.

Unfortunately, it's a bit of a catch-22 sort of thing.  He might have been
reinvigorated if he had
creative control, but it was because his numbers weren't good that he didn't
have creative
control.  It's a shame, but that's the way the business worked then and still
works.  If you're
a big enough star, you get to have things your own way.  But you get to be a
big star by
getting the ratings.  And sometimes by fighting a few fights before you get
to be a big star, in
order to preserve the integrity of your show.

I'm reminded of the story of how NBC was afraid of the character of Mr. Spock
and tried to
get Gene Roddenberry to take him out.  Or at least get rid of the pointed
ears.  They even
had some early publicity pictures that had the ears airbrushed out.
Roddenberry wouldn't
take Spock out, but did keep him in the background in early episodes, until
his popularity
caused NBC execs to change their tune.

Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 08:43:09 -0500
From: Elizabeth McLeod <lizmcl@[removed];

He'd had similar conflicts with meddling vaudeville-circuit officials
and Broadway producers during his stage career, but he had a far
greater degree of autonomy on the stage than he'd ever have in radio.

Then there was the story of when Groucho Marx, in a hurry to go on stage,
didn't have time
to glue on his false mustache, so he grabbed some grease paint.  After the
show, the
theater manager said that he was paying the Marx Brothers the same as other
theaters had
paid, and he demanded the same mustache.  Groucho said all he was entitled to
was the
same laughs. One version of the story has Groucho saying, "You want the other
mustache,
you can have it," and throwing it at him.

But that, too, was possible because the Marx Brothers were, by that time, big
enough to fill
theaters.

He threatened constantly to quit radio -- but like all performers, he
needed an outlet for his creative talent.

He never considered night clubs?

--
A. Joseph Ross, [removed]                           [removed]
 15 Court Square, Suite 210                 lawyer@[removed]
Boston, MA 02108-2503           	         [removed]

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 03:32:27 -0500
From: charlie@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  #OldRadio IRC Chat this Thursday Night!

A weekly [removed]

For the best in OTR Chat, join IRC (Internet Relay Chat), StarLink-IRC
Network, the channel name is #OldRadio.  We meet Thursdays at 8 PM Eastern
and go on, and on! The oldest OTR Chat Channel, it has been in existence
over six years, same time, same channel! Started by Lois Culver, widow
of actor Howard Culver, this is the place to be on Thursday night for
real-time OTR talk!

Our "regulars" include OTR actors, soundmen, collectors, listeners, and
others interested in enjoying OTR from points all over the world. Discussions
range from favorite shows to almost anything else under the sun (sometimes
it's hard for us to stay on-topic)...but even if it isn't always focused,
it's always a good time!

For more info, contact charlie@[removed]. We hope to see you there, this
week and every week!

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 08:16:44 -0500
From: Michael Berger <intercom1@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  fred allen

In spite of suffering the insufferable -- those agency
meddlers -- Fred Allen, if I recall correctly, made
quite a pot of money from the late 30s to the end of
his radio show.  His artistic brilliance wasn't
allowed full expression, but his financial rewards, at
least, were substantial.

Michael Berger

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 08:17:38 -0500
From: Elizabeth McLeod <lizmcl@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  Re: Allen's Final Years

On 12/14/04 11:23 PM [removed]@[removed] wrote:

I guess that answers my question about why CBS didn't exactly snap Fred Allen
up in '49 when NBC let him go.  I think a move would've reinvigorated him,
especially if he had creative control to come and go as he pleased.

It was largely a question of health -- NBC didn't let Allen go, Allen was
forced to retire because he was physically incapable of continuing with a
weekly series. During the 1948-49 season, his blood pressure elevated to
dangerously high levels, and he was advised by his doctor to quit radio
cold -- with the suggestion that if he didn't, he'd be dead within a
year. However, mindful of the fact that he had obligations to his cast,
he refused to do so until the end of the season.

During the summer of 1949, Allen suffered a stroke -- and any return to
fulltime radio was positively ruled out. However, he remained under
contract to NBC, and was used by the network as a contributor to "The Big
Show", as well as on sporadic television programs, until he was no longer
able even to continue with these projects. He finally dropped out of
regular broadcasting in 1953, to begin writing "Treadmill to Oblivion,"
and later "Much Ado About Me," which he wouldn't live to finish. His
doctor gave him permission to return to work for "What's My Line" only
after receiving assurance that Allen would be required only to show up,
with no committment for any sort of stressful preparatory work. But even
this proved to be too much, and Allen dropped dead on a New York street
corner in March of 1956 at the age of 62.

Elizabeth

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 08:17:49 -0500
From: "Jim Widner" <widnerj@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  OTR related fiction

"Are there any good fiction books or movies that those of you on the
list would recommend where OTR plays a significant role?"

Best example, I think, is John Dunning's "Two O'Clock Eastern War Time."

If you aren't familiar with it, I wrote a review for it when it first
came out. You can find it at [removed]

Jim Widner

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 08:19:40 -0500
From: "HOWARD BLUE" <khovard@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  fiction books or movies re OTR

Jay Sweet asked about plays, novels, films  [removed] which OTR plays a
significant role.

For starters, there are John Dunning's mystery "Two O'Clock Eastern Wartime"
and Philip Roth's novel, "I Married a Comunist." And for anyone wanting a
highly rated non-fiction OTR book, there is yours truly's WORDS AT WAR
(Scarecrow Press) --see [removed]

Howard Blue

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 11:46:26 -0500
From: "Rodney W Bowcock" <[removed]@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Re: copyrighted radio sounds

Incidentally,Gerald Nachman ("Raised on Radio")
told me that Fibber's closet was one of the two radio sound effects
actually patented. The other was the Inner Sanctum's creaking door.

I wouldn't put that in your documentary just yet.  I believe that the two
sounds were the creaking door, and the NBC chimes.

To be safe, I'd double-check any information that you get from Nachman's
book, as it has an abnormal amout of errors.

Rodney Bowcock

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 11:46:47 -0500
From: "Rodney W Bowcock" <[removed]@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Re: OTR movies

I recommend the Abbott and Costello film "Who Done It".  Not only does it
take place in a radio studio, but it's one of their funniest films, and you
get to see one of the few film appearances of Walter Tetley.

Rodney Bowcock

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 11:47:04 -0500
From: "joe@[removed]" <sergei01@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  Fibber's closet

The recent History Channel b'cast on "radio" had a scene in which the sound
man knocks over things, making the noise for Fibber's cabinet. It was
followed by a close up of Jim delivering his famous line. I speculate that
it was staged for the camera, but that doesn't mean it wasn't authentic.
There was no reference to where that scene came from.

Joe Salerno

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 14:22:42 -0500
From: "Bob Scherago" <rscherago@[removed];
To: "Old Time Radio" <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  Frances Chaney

On Tue, 14 Dec 2004 Richard Pratz <[removed]@[removed];
wrote of the death of Radio actress Frances Chaney.

You might be interested to know that she appeared on
WTIC's "The Golden Age of Radio" in October, 1975
with Dick Bertel and Ed Corcoran.

You can go to the Golden Age website at
[removed]
and hear two programs, changing every week
or so. The current programs are from July, 1970 -
Peg Lynch, creator and star of "Ethel and Albert"  and
Margaret Hamilton, Aunt Effie on "Ethel and Albert" and
the Wicked Witch of the West in "The Wizard of Oz"
and August, 1970 - Jan Miner, Network Radio Soap
Actress and  heroine of "Hilltop House."

I'll be uploading two new shows in the next day
or so - from September, 1970 - John Gibson,
Network Radio actor, and October, 1970 - Rudy
Vallee.

Bob Scherago

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 14:23:02 -0500
From: Art Chimes <achimes@[removed];
To: otr <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  Just in time for holiday giving

Broadcast equipment supplier BSW has several varieties of "on air" and
"recording" lights now on sale. These are new, not antiques (though some
are 1930s-style), and they are not cheap, but one of them might just be
the right gift for the OTR collector who has everything else.

[removed]

Art

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 14:45:18 -0500
From: "Bob Burchett" <haradio@[removed];
To: "[removed]" <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  Fred Allen
X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative
X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain

In January 1946 Fred Allen was paid $20,000 a week
to come back on radio. Nice treadmill.

  *** This message was altered by the server, and may not appear ***
  ***                  as the sender intended.                   ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 15:47:00 -0500
From: seandd@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Article on OTR

Here's another nice article on radio vs. the golden age by the editor of the
Columbian up in Washington State.

Sean Dougherty
SeanDD@[removed]

[removed]

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 15:47:17 -0500
From: seandd@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  FOTR 30th

Thanks to all who have responded to my plea for support of a commemorative
program for the 30th Annual Friends of Old Time Radio Convention (October
20-23, 2005).

I've got offers for features on both of our major amateur performing groups,
a history of the convention by a person who has been to every single one,
offers of photographs and an essay on the impact on the hobby of OTR
conventions and their future by a major major OTR scholar.

Not bad for a week+.

Any other offers?

Shamelessly yours,

Sean Dougherty
SeanDD@[removed]
201-739-2541

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 15:47:24 -0500
From: Ron Sayles <bogusotr@[removed];
To: Olde Tyme Radio List <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  12-16 births/deaths

December 16th births

12-16-1890 - Jane Morgan - North Platte, NE - d. 1-1-1972
actress: Mary Lane "Aunt Mary"; Mrs. Margaret Davis "Our Miss Brooks"
12-16-1892 - Cameron Prud'homme - Auburn, CA - d. 11-27-1967
actor: Governor Bradley "Little Herman"; David Harum "David Harum"
12-16-1895 - Andy Razaf - Washington, D. C. - d. 2-3-1973
lyricist: "Music for Millions"
12-16-1898 - Lud Gluskin - NYC - d. 10-13-1989
conductor: "Hollywood Showcase"; "Amos 'n' Andy"; "Advs. of Sam Spade"
12-16-1899 - Sir Noel Coward - Teddington, Middlesex, England - d. 3-26-1973
actor, playwright: "Stagestruck"
12-16-1946 - Robert Urich - Toronto, OH - d. 4-16-2002
salesman: WGN Chicago, Illinois

December 16th deaths

01-25-1874 - Somerset Maughan - Paris, France - d. 12-16-1965
writer: " Somerset Maughan Theatre"
02-08-1917 - Robert Dryden - d. 12-16-2003
actor: Doctor West "We Love and Learn"; Sergeant Maggio "Call the Police"
07-29-1906 - Thelma Todd - Lawrence, MA - d. 12-16-1935
comedienne: Series with Zasu Pitts
08-02-1886 - Cesare Sodero - Naples, Italy - d. 12-16-1947
conductor: Series of condensed operas on WEAF New York
--
Ron Sayles
Milwaukee, Wisconsin

--------------------------------
End of [removed] Digest V2004 Issue #397
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