Subject: [removed] Digest V2005 #144
From: [removed]@[removed]
Date: 5/9/2005 6:55 AM

To: [removed]@[removed]

    ------------------------------

                                The Old-Time Radio Digest!
                                  Volume 2005 : Issue 144
                             A Part of the [removed]!
                                 [removed]
                                     ISSN: 1533-9289

                                     Today's Topics:

      Re: Least favorite shows              [ Cnorth6311@[removed] ]
      harlem hospitality club               [ "ed carr" <edcarr@[removed]; ]
      Disliked Programs, ENOUGH ALREADY!!   [ "Paul Thompson" <beachcrows@sbcglob ]
      One Man's Family                      [ <otrbuff@[removed]; ]
      ABC is a Mickey Mouse organization    [ "MICHAEL BIEL" <mbiel@[removed]; ]
      Re: Best and worst old time radio sh  [ "Jan Bach" <janbach@[removed]; ]
      Worst program                         [ davesline@[removed] ]
      Re: Disney and Copyright              [ "David Tower" <dtower@[removed]; ]
      Re: least favorite                    [ Dixonhayes@[removed] ]
      RE: FRED ALLEN at Boston Public Libr  [ "thomas heathwood" <HeritageRadio@m ]
      Best shows I never heard as a [removed]  [ "Ted Kneebone" <tkneebone1@[removed] ]
      BBC7                                  [ "Mike Hobart" <zines50@[removed]; ]
      Re: For what it's worth.              [ Hal Stone <otrjug@[removed]; ]

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sun, 8 May 2005 18:56:57 -0400
    From: Cnorth6311@[removed]
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Re: Least favorite shows

    If I felt the way _ARago17320@[removed]_ (mailto:ARago17320@[removed])  feels
    about OTR shows, I  wouldn't even bother listening. Guess I am not PC enough
    to
    worry about such  things. I just enjoy the shows for what they are, and do not
    read anything into  them. If that were the case, I probably wouldn't watch
    many movies, nor read  many books. What a dull life that would be, huh?

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sun, 8 May 2005 19:36:34 -0400
    From: "ed carr" <edcarr@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  harlem hospitality club

    hi
    is anyone familiar with harlem hospitality club
    with little miss corn chuck, willie bryant, amanda randolf
    ed

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sun, 8 May 2005 20:21:07 -0400
    From: "Paul Thompson" <beachcrows@[removed];
    To: "OTR Digest" <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Disliked Programs, ENOUGH ALREADY!!

    In the last digest Al Ragonnet said it as well as it could be
    expressed when he said in part:

> >     Some of us are old enough to have heard these shows as children.

    Some  have
    been born after OTR died and are coming to OTR as adults or
    teenagers.  This
    means that when listening to the shows it is impossible  (yes, I
    really think
    it is impossible) to judge them by the standards of the  times they
    were
    broadcast.  We hear them with all the modern thought  patterns we now
    deal
    [removed] <<

    As one having been born before many of the shows recently categorized
    as worse, disliked or otherwise came into existence, I can appreciate
    what Al said in his post. Many of today's OTR's fans are hearing these
    programs with modern ears and sensibilities and will hear them much
    differently than those of us that grew up listening to them. When that
    wonderful piece of talking furniture graced our living rooms there
    were programs that some members of the household wouldn't listen to
    while others wouldn't miss an episode. It's a matter of personal
    preference. It's no different today with television or music. Perhaps
    the irritant for some of us in this recent outpouring of disliked show
    listings is that they seem more like an ongoing hit list (as [removed]
    come, add your candidates before the nominations close).
    [removed] one man's junk is another man's treasure, and vice
    versa.

    Paul Thompson

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sun, 8 May 2005 20:22:21 -0400
    From: <otrbuff@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  One Man's Family

    >From Those Were The Days --

>     5/8

>     1959 - The final broadcast of One Man's Family was heard on NBC after
>     being on the air 27 years. The show had completed 3,256 episodes since
>     its beginning in 1932.

    Subsequent investigation in recent years has caused me to become convinced
    that most contemporary scholars, including (if I may be so bold) this
    researcher, have gotten this wrong.  There is compelling evidence to the
    contrary, including some documentarians on this list who specialize in
    studying One Man's Family, that claim NBC wiped away the final vestiges of
    its open-ended (continuing storyline) daytime serials not on May 8, 1959 as
    has been so frequently repeated but two weeks earlier, April 24, 1959.

    While the longrunning Pepper Young's Family died on January 2, 1959 and most
    of NBC's other durable serials expired in 1955 or 1956 (or were transferred
    to CBS in that era), yet another Carlton E. Morse creation, The Woman in My
    House, was allowed to persist also through April 24, 1959.  At that juncture
    new episodes of daytime serials that had lasted nearly three decades over
    NBC appear to have ceased.  CBS, meanwhile, continued airing a handful of
    soap operas to November 25, 1960, often dubbed "the day radio drama died."
    I have attempted to set this record straight in a forthcoming volume.

    Jim Cox

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sun, 8 May 2005 20:25:02 -0400
    From: "MICHAEL BIEL" <mbiel@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  ABC is a Mickey Mouse organization

    Thanks to Doug Leary for his comments about my Library of
    Congress/Copyright post.  It is appropriately ironic that he uses Walt
    Disney as an example of someone who profited from the Public Domain,
    because inadvertently Disney became the focus of the Eldred case which
    tried to fight the Sonny Bono Copyright Extension Act.  The idiots in the
    mainstream corporate press made it appear that if Eldred won the case then
    Disney would LOSE Mickey Mouse.  That asinine falsehood, which became the
    headline of every news story about the case, sidetracked everybody enough
    that the one hour that the Supreme Court grants was partially wasted.  All
    that would have happened is that one-by-one after 2003, the individual
    FILMS would go into the public domain.  The CHARACTER and image of Mickey
    Mouse, being a TRADEMARK, would remain Disney's property.  I don't know who
    brought up the fake Disney story first, but certainly nobody at ABC could
    be blamed.

    If you believe that, I have this bridge near my daughter's apartment in
    Brooklyn . . . . . . . .

    Michael Biel  mbiel@[removed]

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sun, 8 May 2005 21:07:56 -0400
    From: "Jan Bach" <janbach@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Re: Best and worst old time radio shows

    Hello again --

    I have to jump into the fray here and add to the ongoing discussion re the
    best vs. the worst shows of OTR.
    I agree with Kermyt Anderson's point that Bob and Ray must be inferior to
    Vic and Sade if the number of "guys talking" is any measurement of a radio
    show as Ron Sayles suggests. Of course, Ron is measuring OTR by story and
    sound effects, but they aren't the only measure. Bob Hope had one of the
    most popular programs on the air in his heyday, and the programs bore me to
    tears today . . . this was funny? Of course, all of  Bob's topical humor
    became as old as yesterday's newspaper and in about the same amount of time.
    So very little of it is funny today, whereas Jack Benny's situations (and, I
    might add, those of Vic and Sade and Easy Aces) are timeless in their
    faithfulness to the human condition, which never really changes. That is the
    continuing power of Shakespeare as well, despite his often (to us) obscure
    language.
    Among the worst OTR shows I can mention is, I believe, Mr. Keene, Tracer of
    Lost Persons. He was introduced as one of the most famous characters of
    fiction, in one of radio's most exciting dramas. Famous? Perry Mason,
    Sherlock Holmes, and Ellery Queen were famous. One of radio's most exciting
    dramas? Listen to two or three of these in a row (easy to do now with the
    number of mp3 disks available) and you quickly realize the formula which
    remained the same week after week -- a character is killed off in the first
    five minutes (No! Don't kill me with that gun you're holding! Oh! You just
    killed me) after which Mr. Keene, who long ago apparently abandoned his
    "missing persons" function, is called in and quickly solves the case despite
    the misunderstandings of his embarrassing stooge -- sorry, his partner --
    Mike Clancy. That was really "over the top" radio acting! Phooey!

    Jan Bach

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sun, 8 May 2005 21:30:46 -0400
    From: davesline@[removed]
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Worst program
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    The subject of which is the worst program in radio is a totally subjective
    one. What I love, you may hate, and with good reason. It all depends on your
    personal interests, personality and background. When I was a kid, I would
    come home from school and Mom would have The Eddie Arnold Show on, boy I
    hated that show, likewise I disliked The Grand Ole Opry. But I really like
    them both now and whenever possible I try to add one to my collection. I was
    a real fan of The Rail Road Hour back then, now I find it sort of corny.
    Times- they- do- change and so do people. Best wishes, Dave Palmer

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    Date: Sun, 8 May 2005 21:56:04 -0400
    From: "David Tower" <dtower@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Re: Disney and Copyright

    In response to Doug Leary's post on Disney and copyright law:

> >     "What struck me is that if the same copyright terms had applied to
> >     literature when Walt Disney was a young man, the Disney empire as we know
> >     it would not exist today. Mickey Mouse notwithstanding, the foundation of
> >     Walt's fortune was public domain material from the likes of Mark Twain,
> >     Hans Christian Anderson and the Brothers Grimm, all of which would have
> >     been under copyright in the [removed] Disney has the money to
> >     negotiate rights to just about anything they want, but that wealth exists
> >     because Walt had the freedom to build upon the legacy of the

    past -- a freedom Americans no longer have."<<

    Of Disney's first features, only Snow White seems to have been in the public
    domain. Bambi (1942) and Dumbo (1941) were clearly under copyright, and
    likely Pinnochio (1940) as well. Collodi dying in 1890.

    Walt in the thirties was not interested in competing head-to-head against
    the majors. You do not produce an animated Treasure Island when MGM in its
    prime casts Wallace Beery, Jackie Cooper, Lionel Barrymore, Lewis Stone and
    Nigel Bruce for the live-action feature. Looked at closely, I think the
    argument that Disney's success was based on exploiting public domain sources
    simply falls apart.

    Those who object to the studio's stand on copyright might want to consider
    this: There are no "lost" Disney titles.

    Because the backlist remains commercially viable, there is the incentive to
    protect it. The Bambi DVD includes extraordinary things drawn from the
    Disney archives, such as the original multiplane background paintings on
    glass. Transcripts of story sessions, sheet music, concept art. How many
    times have you wished that anything of the sort had survived from your OTR
    favorites?

    David Tower

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sun, 8 May 2005 23:12:40 -0400
    From: Dixonhayes@[removed]
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Re: least favorite
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    In a message dated 5/8/05 5:18:28 PM Central Daylight Time,
    [removed]@[removed] writes:

>     By the way, I've really been digging Rocky Fortune,
>     but it doesnt seem to be a very popular show in OTR
>     circles.

    I have always recognized it to be fairly lame and ridiculous but for some
    reason I still find it entertaining.  I once found a whole batch of episodes
    for
    download and couldn't stop listening, even after the insanely preposterous
    episode about the spaceship.  It was really a hoot.

    Dixon

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    Date: Sun, 8 May 2005 23:14:22 -0400
    From: "thomas heathwood" <HeritageRadio@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  RE: FRED ALLEN at Boston Public Library
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    Re: The Question about FRED ALLEN SHOWS at The Boston Public Library:
    I (and others) have been working on the problem of the NBC programs held
    "hostage" at the Boston Public Library for many years.  When newsman.  Robert
    Taylor (THE BOSTON GLOBE)  wrote his book
    on Fred several years ago, he came on our local version (AM Radio Boston) of
    Heritage Radio Theatre
    and discussed the book and the holdings at the Boston Public Library.  This
    led to my initial campaign
    to get the famed library to let Fred out of bondage.  His programs which were
    supplied (as Alan Chapman mentioned) by Allen's wife,  Portland Hoffa, were,
    however,  they were a set of dubs
    made by NBC for Portland. The tapes at the Library are NOT NBC "Masters" - in
    fact,  these were not great copies at all.  Portland also supplied most (if
    not all) of Fred's personal papers which were a great acquisition.  They
    decided everything would be placed in the rare
    book section and only be seen/heard under supervision.  Portland also supplied
    $10,000 for the library to make copies of the programs to cassette from the
    NBC reels.  This project was begun - but only a small number of shows were
    professionally transferred.  The Library then decided that they were spending
    too much money having this done professionally,  so they hooked up a reel
    machine to a cassette recorder and began making their "own" cassettes.  Alas,
    this project didn't go far either,  and only a couple of dozen tapes were made
    in the "home-made" fashion. The Library contemplated having copies of some of
    the cassettes that had been made, sold through the gift shop. This plan was
    never executed either.
    This took us back to "step one"  with the tapes all in the restricted stacks,
    without members being able to borrow even the "copies of copies".
    Now, as mentioned, the only access the ALLEN programs is to listen to the
    cassette dubs IN the Library withoiut any possibility of "borrowing" or
    copying any of the material for home use.
    Over the several years there has been no change in policy, despite the
    publicity from Taylor's book and his comments in THE BOSTON GLOBE, as well as
    many, many requests/demands/suggestions from interested members of the Library
    and the general public.  Fred, sadly, still remains inder wraps at Boston
    Public Library,  despite periodic rumors that the policy was going to change.
    Fred, of course, was employed as a young man, as a "stack boy" at BPL and did
    some of his first public "entertainment" at a BPL annual Christmas Party,
    where fellow-workers encouraged him to pursue a career in show-business - but
    not in his original role of a juggler, but as a funny-man on stage.
    How sad, I have always thought, Fred would see his "fate" at the Library -
    being relegated to a musty
    restricted area of one of the World's great libraries.  Many of the rest of us
    feel the same way.
    Luckily - many other sources have since surfaced that give us a wide selection
    of FRED ALLEN radio
    and TV programs. One can only suppose that someday,  the BPL will be more
    responsive to its
    memebers and people worldwide who would love to know and have access to
    everything that was
    given to the Library for that purpose.
    Tom Heathwood / Heritage Radio Theatre / Heritage Radio Classics
    HeritageRadio@[removed]<mailto:HeritageRadio@[removed];
    [removed]<[removed];

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    Date: Mon, 9 May 2005 08:00:27 -0400
    From: "Ted Kneebone" <tkneebone1@[removed];
    To: "Old Time Radio Digest" <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Best shows I never heard as a [removed]

    How about a new category:  the best shows I never heard as a kid?  As a
    collector and trader of old time radio, I was happy to [removed]

        "Quiet, please."

    What a delightful mix of horror, science fiction, comedy, and even religion!
    The acting by Ernest Chappell and the writing of Wyllis Cooper were superb.

    And I never heard this show as a kid.  Thank God for the gift of growing old
    and electrical transcriptions (even the scratchy ones)!  And for people who
    saved them.

    Ted Kneebone.  OTR website:  [removed]
    1528 S. Grant St. - Aberdeen, SD 57401 - 605-226-3344

    ------------------------------

    Date: Mon, 9 May 2005 08:01:06 -0400
    From: "Mike Hobart" <zines50@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  BBC7

    Latest ratings in British radio show an increase in listeners for the
    digital station BBC7 which devotes a lot of its day to Old Time Radio.  From
    391,000 BBC 7 listeners in the last quarter of 2004, They have leapt by 41%
    to 556,000 listeners from January - March 2005.

    Mary Kalemkerian (Head of Programmes BBC7) attended the European
    Broadcasting Union Conference, where she delivered a presentation on how an
    archive network can attract new listeners to speech radio.

    The delegates were all from public service radio throughout Europe, and many
    ideas were shared and discussed. A common theme was, unsurprisingly, that
    "content, content, content" is the key to the success of any radio station.

    Amen to that!

    [removed]

    ------------------------------

    Date: Mon, 9 May 2005 08:55:15 -0400
    From: Hal Stone <otrjug@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Re: For what it's worth.

    Some time ago, I posted another of my brief mentions about how to obtain a
    copy of my book, "Aw!, Relax Archie. Relaxx!!!.

    My "Down Under" Buddy, Ian Grieve, the Awesome Aussie, followed that up with
    a funny (to me at least) response, kidding me about mentioning my book
    (again) and in his ramblings, he printed my book ordering web address (link)
    about 4 or 5 times more.

    Unfortunately, I was heavily involved (still) in my home remodeling
    projects, and didn't have the chance to zing Ian in return. Besides, I was
    looking for the Aussie to English dictionary he sent me, so I could respond
    in a language he would understand, but it's buried under packing boxes.

    At any rate, since I didn't react and have a come-back for Ian, he must have
    thought I was miffed at his publicly teasing me here in the hallowed pages
    of the Digest. Hence, last week, he recently sent me this private message
    off list.

    Here are a few excerpts.

>     G'Day Hal,

>     I saw your post today in the Digest and it reminded me to email you.

>     I hope you didn't take offence at my post about your plugs for your book.
>     It was in jest and wasn't meant to offend.  I enjoy your posts and I love it
>     when you sneak in a plug :)  I can't for the life of me understand why you
>     have copies left, it was a great read and I enjoy your writing style.  I
>     have hundreds of OTR related books and one day I hope to write a couple, but
>     yours has pride of place on one of my bookshelves because you included so
>     many other people instead of concentrating on yourself, I can refer back to
>     it often looking for a picture or a little info on a person. (SNIP)

    Now I call that high praise indeed. For those of you who don't know about
    Ian, he is considered to be the Grand Poo Bah of Australian OTR. To prove
    that [removed] goes on to say.

>     I still read the Digest but most of my spare time is spent documenting
>     Australian OTR, we have a lot of years of documenting to do to catch up with
>     what the [removed] collectors and researchers have done.  So far we have databased
>     over 4,000 Australian Series/Serials and the list will probably go over
>     5,000.  Then it will be a matter of adding the fine details.

    I have always believed in the old [removed]"A pleased customer is your best
    advertisement". When my book pleases a reader who is considered to be a
    paragon of OTR knowledge, I feel I have arrived as an author. :)
    But then again, he is an Aussie, and they definitely march to a different
    drummer. (Or is it marching to the strains of a didgeridoo?)

    But what I think will tickle Ian (Hey Ian, the word "tickle" is "American"
    for pleasing) is that following Ian's post, when he mentiond my book site at
    least 4 times, I received 4 book orders the following week.

    And honestly folks, there really are only a few copies left, and frankly, I
    want to close this chapter in my life, and get rid of them. I don't need the
    money. I just need the space. :)

    Bottom line, I notice that New subscribers are always being added to the
    Digest list. So for their benefit solely, I should mention that my book
    about my life in OTR was written at the urging of many Digest members, and
    was written expressly for Digest members. So, if you young un's out there
    wanna know what it was like to work as a radio performer in those good old
    days, and get a feel for OTR celebrities and characters I met along the way,
    you might want to check out this site and see if the book has any appeal to
    you. And, I happily inscribe and autograph each copy.

    [removed]

    Hey Ian, I didn't disappoint you. I snuck in another plug. And it probably
    will be the last. (Do I hear applause in the background?)

    Incidentally, I should also mention how excited I am to be a guest again at
    the upcoming REPS Convention in Seattle. (June 24th-25th @ the Seattle
    Convention Center)

    Ordinarily, I'd say I was "Pleased" to be invited. At my age, it takes a lot
    to "Excite" me. :) But in this case, I'm really hyped up. I'll be directing
    (And Co-starring in, I might add) what will probably be the last performance
    of an "Archie Andrews" recreation that will be performed by three of the
    four surviving original cast members. Bob Hastings (Archie), Rosemary Rice
    (Betty) and yours truly (Jughead). Unfortunately Jane Webb (Veronica) can't
    make it, but she will be there in spirit. They are flying Rosemary all the
    way out from NY for this special event. It's a fun script, and we will have
    some super talent in all the other roles.

    This presentation goes hand in hand with the release of about 10+ newly
    discovered recordings from the early days of the Archie Show, that are in
    the process of being digitally re-mastered from NBC air check discs. (Or
    else they were originally used for DB broadcasts to the West Coast). These
    new CD's will be available at the Convention, and Bob, Rosemary and I will
    be autographing them.

    Hastings and I have also been asked to do our "Bob any Ray" routines, and
    the Convention producers have put together a host of other entertaining
    shows.

    So, if anyone from the West Coast area (or anyplace else for that matter)
    wants to attend this always fun OTR Convention, I suggest you contact a
    super nice guy named Mike Sprague for Convention details, costs, etc.
    You can reach him at

    <HRRMIKES@[removed];

    OK? Look forward to seeing you there. And be sure to come up and introduce
    yourself as a fellow "Digester".

    Hal(Harlan)Stone
    Jughead

    --------------------------------
    End of [removed] Digest V2005 Issue #144
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