Subject: [removed] Digest V2003 #154
From: "OldRadio Mailing Lists" <[removed]@[removed];
Date: 4/12/2003 2:58 PM

To: <[removed]@[removed];

    ------------------------------

                                The Old-Time Radio Digest!
                                  Volume 2003 : Issue 154
                             A Part of the [removed]!
                                     ISSN: 1533-9289

                                     Today's Topics:

      Age and Place                         [ Harry Bartell <bartell@[removed] ]
      Library of American Broadcasting      [ "Michael Muderick" <[removed] ]
      Hi Brown & The Red Cross: Where are   [ Howard Blue <khovard@[removed]; ]
      news groups                           [ Kurt E Yount <blsmass@[removed]; ]
      Actors suspended in Suspense          [ Carolie Minuscule <daggerofthemind2 ]
      Re: Who's A Buffoon?                  [ gad4@[removed] ]
      Les Tremayne birthday                 [ "Walden Hughes" <hughes1@[removed]; ]
      Re: A&A Log                           [ Elizabeth McLeod <lizmcl@[removed] ]
      Re: A&A and Ethnic Humor              [ Elizabeth McLeod <lizmcl@[removed] ]
      Today in radio history                [ Joe Mackey <joemackey108@[removed] ]
      Found: Alistair Cooke's "Letter from  [ jhcollins@[removed] ]
      Columbia question                     [ "Arthur Emerson" <milart@[removed]; ]
      Amos 'n' Andy                         [ "Arthur Funk" <Art-Funk@[removed]; ]

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 11:08:28 +0000
    From: Harry Bartell <bartell@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Age and Place

    Elizabeth Minney writes:

    Victor  Perrin, according to [removed], was born in 1916 and died in
    1989.  This d'Illyria website lists the following info about him:
    Victor Perrin
    Born : 6 December 1900 in Clinton, Massachusetts, USA
    Died: 30 April 1974 in Rochester, Minnesota, USA of lung cancer.

    This d'Illyria site also added several years to Mr. Bartell's age.

    I  was probably the last person to speak to Vic Perrin (aside from his wife
    Rita) before he went into a coma and died a couple of days later. He always
    thought he was born in Menomonee Falls, Wisconsin although I don't know the
    date.

    I am a world-class authority on the age of Harry Bartell and I have a birth
    certificate which says he was born on November 29, 1913

    Harry Bartell

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 22:34:35 +0000
    From: "Michael Muderick" <[removed]@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Library of American Broadcasting

    The LAB is housed at the University of Maryland.  It was formerly the
    Broadcast Pioneers Library.  I visited it a few years ago, shortly after I
    donated 60 cartons of periodicals to them.  That was one of the largest
    individual donations they had received to that point.  They have since moved
    into a larger facility.  At the time, the collection was mostly print,
    including scripts, with some audio and video recordings.  Visit their
    website at [removed].  I intend to send more to them at
    some time in the future.

    Michael Muderick

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 10:45:59 +0000
    From: Howard Blue <khovard@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Hi Brown & The Red Cross: Where are
      their papers?

     From time to time, I'm identifying the locations of the papers which
    might be of interest to OTR folks:

    Hi Brown, producer of numerous radio soap operas and other shows is still
    kicking around New York.  Some years ago he donated the disks of many of
    his shows to the University of Georgia. As I recall, however, there may
    not have been any papers that were part of the collection. Still, the
    show is alone are of great historical value. When I visited there about
    three or four years ago, the university library did not seem to be set up
    so that visitors or researchers could listen to them.  Hopefully that has
    been remedied by now.

    During World War II, the Red Cross produced a large number of radio
    programs to support the war effort.  	The texts of the scripts of those
    shows are now located
    in the National Archives.

    Howard Blue

    [removed]

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 10:46:20 +0000
    From: Kurt E Yount <blsmass@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  news groups

    May I add my voice to the chorus asking about news groups, where, etc.
    Where, Where Where?  Kurt

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 10:47:42 +0000
    From: Carolie Minuscule <daggerofthemind2000@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Actors suspended in Suspense

     > BUT two of those I looked up had what I think is
     > faulty information in their bios.

    Unfortunately a few of these pages used a template
    with Agnes Moorehead's bio info, which never got
    erased, don't ask me why!

    These bio bloopers should now be fixed.  The bios
    aren't there for most, but incorrect bio info has been
    replaced with TBAs.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 10:48:10 +0000
    From: gad4@[removed]
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Re: Who's A Buffoon?

     >>I know Im probably sticking my foot in my mouth, but to say in the early
     >>episodes they are not "inept buffoons", Im not sure I would agree with that.

     >There was some of this type material in the first two years of the
     >program -- but I don't know as I'd call it "buffoonery." That term to me
     >calls to mind characters who have no inner life, no other function than
     >as bumbling, fumbling clowns.

    Since Elizabeth was kind enough to respond to my letter, I figured Id give
    her the same courtesy.

    I think Elizabeth's and mine opinion on this matter are very close. A lot of
    our differences of opinion are probably due to different focuses and
    meanings of words.

    According to the dictionary the words [removed]

    INEPT: 1. Not suitable for the purpose, unfit,  2. Wrong in a foolish and
    awkward way 3. clumsey or bungling, inefficient.

    BUFFOON: 1. (to jest) A person who is always clowning and trying to be funny.

    In the phrase "Inept buffoonary" my focus seemed to have been on the word
    "inept" rather than the word buffoon.

    In other words, my thoughts were that in the early episodes the characters
    were portrayed less intelligent than the later ones. I think Elizabeth
    agrees with that and that was the message I was trying to get across.

    While its true that Amos and Andy were playing the lines straight (not for
    laughs), I personally believe that their creators were trying to do humor in
    these word sketches. So in essense, the creators could have been "buffoons"
    in the definition sense of the word.

    I agree with her that the characters are not two dimensional but very three
    dimensional. So in that definition of the word buffoon, I agree they are
    not. They are very thought out, complex scripts.

    Elizabeth can probably give me better feedback on this, but my thoughts were
    that its too easy to go to one of the two extremes. The one extreme that
    they were making a racist show that was degrogatory to the blacks to the
    opposite extreme that they were trying to send an underlying social message.

    My thoughts are that the creators didnt really do either of the two. They
    were trying to make quality entertainment with realistic characters- not
    stereotypes.  Gosdon and Carroll were excellent storytellers and excellent
    with their pacing and plot development. They were the masters of the serial.
    They were able to merge comedy, suspense, drama with excellent timing.

    Elizabeth says that the "inept" type humor faded out after a few years. I
    have no reason to doubt her on that fact.  Why that change occured, I dont
    know. My thoughts were that perhaps they felt that joke style wore thin , it
    was a desire to keep the show fresh, or even in time their speaking style
    just evolved. If Elizabeth has some quotes from the creators of the show
    from that period of time on this topic, it would be greatly appreciated.

    Unfortunately most of the serial episodes that exist are from these first
    few years. Also she may correct me if Im wrong, but I thought these early
    years were possibly the time when Amos/Andy was most popular (with the Andy
    trial as an example) I know that the shooting of Andy was big (which was
    later) but my thoughts were the times they would close down the theater etc.
    were in those early years.

    If Elizabeth would prefer to discuss this with me off list, I have no
    problems with that. A few years back I sent her some emails which got no
    response so I figured this is the place she preferred to discuss things.

    Thats all for now.

    Sincerely,
    George

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 10:48:29 +0000
    From: "Walden Hughes" <hughes1@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Les Tremayne birthday

    Hi Everybody,  Les Tremayne was a live guest with Frank Bresee, my show.
    Frank thought it would be a nice idea if any one on this email list would
    like to drop me a private email wishing Les Tremayne on his 90 the birthday
    which is next week, we will make sure Les gets your email.  Les was the star
    on The First Nighter from 1937 to 1943, Betty and Bob, The Thin Man, The
    Falcon, Woman in MY House.  He was one of the co--star of Cazam on TV.  Take
    care,

    Walden Hughes and

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 06:55:54 -0400
    From: Elizabeth McLeod <lizmcl@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Re: A&A Log

    On 4/11/03 11:09 PM OldRadio Mailing Lists wrote:

     >There are many OTR program logs available online, but I have not seen one
     >for Amos n Andy. Is there one online?

    Complete program summaries for every serial A&A episode from 1928 thru
    1933 are available at [removed]~[removed]. This
    is part of an ongoing project to document all of the serial episodes thru
    the end of the Pepsodent period, and additional listings will be added as
    time and circumstances permit. Eventually, if the LOC finally gets on the
    stick and microfilms the 1938-43 scripts, I hope to include the Campbells
    Soup episodes as well.

    A log of the A&A sitcom (along with detailed cast listings for both the
    serial and the sitcom, and a listing of known guest appearances by
    Correll and Gosden on other programs) is available at
    [removed]~[removed]. The sitcom log is complete
    thru the 1952-53 seasons, although information is still missing for
    episodes during the last two seasons. (This period featured a very large
    number of repeat broadcasts due to budget cuts by CBS, and it's likely
    that most of the "missing" dates were filled by rebroadcasts of previous
    episodes.)

    Elizabeth

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 10:56:15 +0000
    From: Elizabeth McLeod <lizmcl@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Re: A&A and Ethnic Humor

    On 4/11/03 11:09 PM OldRadio Mailing Lists wrote:

     >As Elizabeth noted, it did speak some to Georgia as the "old
     >country" and getting along in the "new world".  I'll leave it to her to
     >discuss whether the humor was targeted more at the universal human
     >condition, or characteristics that were more centered on the African
     >American (vs. Jewish/Yiddish) experience.

    I don't think there's any question that the most important aspects of
    A&A's appeal were universal rather than ethnic-specific -- this is very
    obvious from even a cursory examination of the scripts, and was always
    frankly acknowledged by Correll and Gosden themselves.

    Correll and Gosden's most characteristic humor during the serial era
    stemmed from very close observation of human nature, and how different
    types of people react to different situations. And most specifically, how
    *their characters,* as carefully-delineated individuals, reacted to
    situations. These reactions were in no way dependent on the racial
    background of the characters as a component of the humor.

    Consider this scene, a conversation between Andy and Lightning over
    Andy's ad in a matrimonial-bureau newsletter.

    ++++

    Andy---All dese lettehs yo' see heah, yo' know whut dey is?

    Light--Nosah.

    Andy---Well, I put a add in de matrimony papeh---dat's a papeh dat yo'
    put a add in fo' a wife, an' all dese answehs is from gals dat wanna git
    married.

    Light--Sho' 'nuf, Mr. Andy?

    Andy---Oh yeh---just look at de answehs heah.

    Light--All dese letters is from gals.

    Andy---An' dey all answehed my add in de matrimony papeh an' dey wanna
    marry me. All of 'em is pretty, all of 'em is thin, good lookin', got
    money.

    Light--Dat sounds pretty good, Mr. Andy.

    Andy---Oh, dis is a great way to git a wife. You didn't git yo's dis way,
    did yo'?

    Light--Nosah, I met mine at a party.

    Andy---Too bad.

    Light--You say all dese gals dat's writin' you is got money an' all dat
    stuff?

    Andy---Got money? Half of 'em is rich, some of 'em is got farms. Whut I
    is been doin' though is sortin' 'em out an' markin' 'em wid a pencil to
    show whetheh dey is good or bad.

    Light--Whut is dat big pile right dere?

    Andy---Dem ain't so hot. Lemme read yo' one letteh heah to give yo' a
    idea whut 'tis.

    Light--Yessah, read me one of 'em.

    Andy---"Dear Misteh---my name is Nellie Nancy Mary Lee Wilson, but my
    boyfriends call me 'Billie Girl.'----I am only four feet seven inches
    tall, very pretty, full of life---will go anywhere---have income of $25 a
    week---

    Light--Dat's good, ain't it?

    Andy---"Still have t-r-u-s-o"----dat's tru-so---"from my last weddin',
    which didn't pan out---whut do you say--question mark----how about
    it---question mark---are you game---question mark----long eyelashes----I
    love you---Billie Girl---Gen'ral Delivery, Little Rock----P. S.

    Light--Whut's dat?

    Andy---P. S. It say, "de 25 I git each week is alimony an' dat stops when
    we git married."

    Light--Dat's from a girl, is it?

    Andy---Oh yeh. Just shows yo' de kind o' lettehs I is gittin' heah.

    Light--All dese letters from girls dat wanna git married---I can't git
    over it.

    Andy---Well, I got a few in dis pile right heah--dese is from people dat
    wanna sell me diff'ent things---dis fellow heah sells weddin'
    rings----dis fellow heah  in dis letteh, if I send him 10 cents, he'll
    send me a book, de art of makin' love---just think' o dat, it don't cost
    but a dime. Heah's a letteh from a---de man says "send 50 cents fo' a
    bottle of our hair dye"---den I got two-three heah from people, "how to
    keep from gittin' bald-headed." Heah's a funny letteh dat I just got dis
    mornin'. "Dear Friend number 972---"

    Light--Is dis one from a gal?

    Andy---No, dis is from a fellow heah--listen to it--he says "Dis ain't no
    letteh from no dame---see---I wanna sell you a hoss---if you is got
    enough money to git married on, you is got enough money to buy a
    hoss----if you ain't got enough money fo' both, take my advice an' buy my
    hoss----I got married once---I had $300---in two months I was busted,
    see---so we quit---I saves up my money an' buys a hoss--a--- I starts in
    de hoss bizness----I answehs adds in de matrimony papeh an' sells men
    hosses---take my advice pal--don't git married, buy a hoss---a hoss is a
    man's best friend---I kin sell you a hoss fo' $95----if you don't like
    hosses, do you wanna buy a used car or a good dog---a dog is a man's best
    friend----so long pal---let's heah from you----E. T. Harrison. P. [removed]
    hoss is a betteh buy dan de dog or de car, an' a hoss is a man's best
    friend."

    Light--You goin' buy de hoss?

    Andy---I'd like to buy dat hoss but I ain't got de money right now.

    Light--Whut would yo' do wid him Mr. Andy?

    Andy---I'd keep him in de back yard.

    Light--Well, whut would yo' use him fo'?

    Andy---Yeh, dat's right, ain't it? Yeh, come to think about it I don't
    need no hoss. I betteh git me some heavy underwear befo' I git a hoss.

    Light--Yessah, dat's de best thing.

    -- Episode 1416, 10/4/32.

    +++

    Now, dialect aside, there's nothing particularly "ethnic" about that
    scene. Nor is there anything overtly *funny* in that scene, either - the
    humor doesn't stem from any sort of setup-punchline approach to humor.
    Instead, the level of humor you get out of that scene depends entirely on
    how well you actually *know* Andy and Lightning as indviduals, and the
    specific dynamic which governs their own relationship. As I commented on
    this scene in my website,

    "The scene illustrates the subtle personality traits with which Correll
    and Gosden endowed their characters -- Lightning's perceptiveness in
    immediately sizing up the foolishness of the proposition stands in sharp
    contrast with Andy's usual image of him as a dull-witted lackey, but
    Lightning's desire to avoid confrontations at all costs prevents him from
    directly pointing out that Andy has no need for a horse. In a similar
    situation, the more assertive Amos would have confronted Andy directly --
    even though such a direct attack would have wounded Andy's fragile pride
    and would most likely have caused him to go ahead and buy the horse
    simply to prove Amos wrong. In presenting this brief comic scene Correll
    and Gosden succeed both in provoking chuckles and in demonstrating that
    they thoroughly understand the psychological motivations of their
    characters."

    This approach was basically the *only* safe, acceptable way to present
    "ethnic" characters in a humorous setting during the OTR era while
    remaining accessible to the mass audience. It's much the same approach
    taken by Gertrude Berg in "The Goldbergs" -- aside from dialect and
    occasional references to Jewish holidays there was essentially nothing in
    "The Goldbergs" that couldn't have been done using characters of any
    other ethnic or racial background.

    Genuine "Ethnic Humor," by contrast, is invariably an
    insider-versus-outsider sort of comedy, an "us-versus-them" approach to
    humor. This was very true of the comedy of the Yiddish theatre, the
    comedy of the African-American TOBA vaudevillians, and it's still true
    today of the "black folks do this, white folks do that" approach to humor
    taken by so many of the African-American standups you might see on BET.
    (And in this sense, I'd even say that "women's humor" is a form of ethnic
    comedy, as much as any sort of comedy based on racial or ethnic-group
    differences.)

    It's rarely possible -- or even advisable -- to do genuine ethnic humor
    for a mass audience, because the very nature of the material limits its
    appeal. When attempted, it's a *very risky proposition*, and it almost
    always causes reactions of outrage and offense from at least some members
    of the ethnic group in question: the outcry over the Ice Cube film
    "Barbershop" last summer is the best recent example of this. Mr. Cube and
    his cast broke one of the cardinal rules of ethnic humor in this film:
    anything goes, as long as you keep it "in the family." But exposing that
    *same humor* to a mixed, mass audience is bound to be seen by some
    members of the ethnic group involved as "airing dirty laundry" in public
    -- as witness the outrage shown over certain lines in the film by
    prominent African-American activists.

    This sort of risk was just as present in the OTR era as it is today, as
    witness the outrage heaped upon Boston Irishman Fred Allen for his
    presentation of Ajax Cassidy in the late 1940s. Allen grew up in a
    background where there really *were* Ajax Cassidys, in fact one could
    suggest that the character was a rather vicious caricature of his own
    father. But organized Irish-American groups in the 1940s had no desire to
    see such dirty laundry aired before the general public, and protested
    loud and long.

    Correll and Gosden, from very early in their careers, understood that
    they *couldn't* and *shouldn't* attempt to do seriously "ethnic" humor,
    and I think their decision to stress the universal is the single biggest
    reason for their longevity in radio.

    Elizabeth

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 10:56:27 +0000
    From: Joe Mackey <joemackey108@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Today in radio history

       From Those Were The Days --

    1932 - The thrill-comedy, Joe Palooka, which would also be a popular comic
    strip, made its debut on CBS.
       Joe

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 10:56:53 +0000
    From: jhcollins@[removed]
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Found: Alistair Cooke's "Letter from
      America"

    Alistair Cooke recently celebrated his 57th anniversary as originator and
    continuous host of the weekly fifteen minute radio program "Letter from
    America". Yes, this wonderful program is still on the air, although not
    easy to find. After a little digging, I found it on the BBC 4 "radio on
    demand" page. Just click on
    [removed]#, wait a few
    seconds, and it will start. -John Collins

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 16:37:49 +0000
    From: "Arthur Emerson" <milart@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Columbia question
    X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative
    X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain

    By now every red-blooded boy and girl listening to this digest has reminded
    your inquirer that the program themed by "Columbia, the Gem of the Ocean" was
    "Don Winslow of the Navy" out of Chicago on the Blue network about 1937.

       *** This message was altered by the server, and may not appear ***
       ***                  as the sender intended.                   ***

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 16:38:38 +0000
    From: "Arthur Funk" <Art-Funk@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Amos 'n' Andy

    While I'm not a social scientist nor a student of race relations, I can
    speak as one who grew up in the segregated south (Miami, Florida) in the
    1940s and 1950s.  My recollection of what my parents taught me is that I
    neither of them (dad was from Pennsylvania and mom from Florida) ever said
    anything that I would term disparaging about black folks.  In fact, my
    brother and I were taught always to be respectful to all persons regardless
    of race and we were taught NOT to use the "N" word EVER.  However, we did
    live in a segregated society and accepted the norms dictated by law and
    custom.  I had very little contact with African-Americans until I graduated
    high school and joined the Air Force which was thoroughly integrated.

    As a small child and teenager I listened every week with my family to Amos
    'n' Andy.  The characters sounded to my ear like black folks that I saw in
    daily life.  After all, in those days the only blacks who interacted with
    whites were generally laborers and the like.  There were no jobs available
    to blacks in administrative or professional positions at firms that dealt
    with the white population. Listening then to Amos 'n' Andy became my very
    first exposure to a society where African-Americans were store owners,
    lawyers, judges, doctors, teachers, barbers, insurance agents, even cab
    drivers.  This was not a part of my own experience and it was a broadening
    insight to learn that there were places where blacks were able to hold these
    kinds of positions.

    I began to realize that there were places that were very different than the
    segregated society in which I had been raised.  It was the beginning of my
    conviction that de-segregation was a moral imperative and I became a
    dedicated integrationist.  I think hearing the roles of black professionals
    and para-professionals on Amos 'n' Andy was the "aha moment" that led to my
    realization that segregation was a morally bankrupt institution.  I think
    Mr. Gosden and Mr. Correll probably introduced many other people in the
    segregated parts of America to the knowledge that there was an
    African-Amercan middle class in our country.

    Best regards to all,
    Art Funk

    --------------------------------
    End of [removed] Digest V2003 Issue #154
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