Subject: [removed] Digest V01 #92
From: <[removed]@[removed]>
Date: 3/22/2001 11:50 AM
To: <[removed]@[removed];

------------------------------


                      The Old-Time Radio Digest!
                         Volume 01 : Issue 92
                   A Part of the [removed]!
                           ISSN: 1533-9289


                           Today's Topics:

 Viola Vonn                           ["Bob Burchett" <haradio@[removed]]
 Re: Swordfish!                       [Elizabeth McLeod <lizmcl@[removed]]
 How do we use the Internet to listen ["Bob Watson" <crw912@[removed]; ]
 Jack Benny's Beaver Christmas 12-24- ["Bob Watson" <crw912@[removed]; ]
 Re: Dropping Script Pages            ["Don Fisher" <dfisher@[removed]; ]
 More Batman                          ["Steven Napier" <otrfan@[removed]]
 Superman's takeoff cry               [[removed]@[removed]        ]
 Veola Vonn                           [Dennis W Crow <DCrow3@[removed]]
 Flesh Flezmo                         [danhughes@[removed]                 ]
 Bob and Ray                          [Osborneam@[removed]                  ]
 Gale Storm                           ["Mark Kinsler" <kinsler33@[removed]]
 Re:  Michael Biel's comments         ["Jan Bach" <janbach@[removed];     ]
 Script-dropping tidbit               [Terry Wallace <tdwalla@[removed];  ]
 Remember Kate Smith?                 [wa5pdk@[removed] ([removed] L.)         ]
 script page droppings!               [chet !! <cien@[removed];          ]
 Superman's liftoff                   ["A. Joseph Ross" <lawyer@[removed].]
 Gale Storm                           ["A. Joseph Ross" <lawyer@[removed].]
 Milton Berle                         ["A. Joseph Ross" <lawyer@[removed].]
 Amos and Andy in Pop Culture         ["stephen jansen" <stephenjansen@ema]
 Re: THE OTHER SHOE TO DROP           [Michael Biel <mbiel@[removed];       ]
 RIP WSM's Uncle Dave Macon           [Udmacon@[removed]                    ]
 LOC's SONIC Database                 [Elizabeth McLeod <lizmcl@[removed]]

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 13:46:02 -0500
From: "Bob Burchett" <haradio@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Viola Vonn

Got meet Viola Vonn at the 9th convention in Newark.
Walked in the dealers room and saw a crowd around
someone I didn't know. Then I said when I realized
who ir was I said,"that's him".  She said,"yes that's
him". "Him" was her husband at the time, Frank Nelson.
She saw I had a camera and started to pose for me.
Got some great shots of her. Don't know how old she
was then, but she was still very attractive. Can
we do aattachments on the Digest?
Bob Burchett


[ADMINISTRIVIA: Nope, but we can easily post them on THe Nostalgia Pages'
FOTR Con photo area.  --cfs3]

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 15:23:28 -0500
From: Elizabeth McLeod <lizmcl@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  Re: Swordfish!

Joe Mackey wonders,

  There's a scene in the Marx Brothers film "Monkey Business" where the
password at a speakeasy is "Swordfish".  Possible tie-in with Amos and
Andy?  Inside joke lost on modern audiences?  :)

Perhaps just a coincidence -- or perhaps not: Later in the same film
(which is "Horsefeathers," in fact, not "Monkey Business") Chico and
Harpo disrupt Groucho's classroom lecture with a barrage of shots from
beanshooters -- and as the scene was originally written, the vanquished
Groucho is carried out of the room as he says "Bury me near a radio -- I
don't want to miss 'Amos 'n' Andy.'" That line is cut in all known prints
of the film, and the scene just fades out without any real climax.

Elizabeth

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 15:23:30 -0500
From: "Bob Watson" <crw912@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  How do we use the Internet to listen to OTR??

Being on a tight budget, I don't get to purchase OTR like I would like to.
With regular radio broadcasting very little OTR, the Internet has been a
boon for me.  I love to listen to YesterdayUSA, as well as some of the other
offerings over the internet, such as the Captain Midnight site and the live
365 offerings.  I was wondering if any of us on the mailing lists also
listen more frequently from Internet sources and if so, what are some of our
favorite internet radio stations.  Right now, as I write this, I am
thoroughly enjoying the Jack Benny broadcasts on Live365.  Its the 1951
Cufflinks for Don Christmas Show.
I do recall folks mentioning listening to the Internet for OTR, but I don't
recall a thread where folks actually stated whether or not they have a
favorite Internet station they listen to regularly, or more often than
others.

Bob

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 15:23:34 -0500
From: "Bob Watson" <crw912@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  Jack Benny's Beaver Christmas 12-24-50

While listening to Jack Benny buying cufflinks for Don, I remembered that
there was a lost Christmas episode from 1950.  Has this episode ever been
found???  Just wondering.

Bob

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 15:27:27 -0500
From: "Don Fisher" <dfisher@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  Re: Dropping Script Pages

    Back in the late 50's when I worked on a couple of network soap opera's
in New York, it was the policy of the actors to put the  pages when finished
at the end of the script. I do not remember anyone ever dropping pages on the
floor.   Don Fisher

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 16:27:37 -0500
From: "Steven Napier" <otrfan@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  More Batman

Thanks to everybody for the information about Batman on the radio. If you
sent me mail since last friday, I didn't get it since [removed] went
down. I'm subscribed again with this address.

Some people mentioned the Batman Mystery Club. I found the file and listenbed
to it. Was this a pilot for a series that didn't sell, or is this the only
one that survies?
Steven Napier
e-mail: otrfan@[removed]

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 17:24:17 -0500
From: [removed]@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Superman's takeoff cry

I asked this question about 15 months [removed] yells both cries throughout
the series

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 17:39:34 -0500
From: Dennis W Crow <DCrow3@[removed];
To: OTR Digest <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  Veola Vonn

Veola Vonn (Dunning spells her first  name with an "e"; I've seen it in
other references with an "i")   appeared at two old-time radio conventions
I attended -- SPERDVAC and REPS.  She was mentioned yesterday by Conrad
Binyon, and previously by Michael Biel and Owens Pomeroy.  During the very
beginnings of SPERDVAC, Vonn's husband, Frank Nelson, appeared once as a
guest speaker in a downtown Hollywood restaurant.  He talked about the
"Bickerson" routines that he  and Veola  performed  during the seventies.

Veola Vonn was previously  married to Baby Snooks' "Daddy," Hanley
Stafford.

Her name is sometimes confused with Vicki Vola, who appeared in several
radio shows, including "Mr. District Attorney" during the Jay Jostyn
period.

Arguably, Veola Vonn's most remembered role is that of Princess Nadji in
"Chandu the Magician." She was a lovely, exuberant lady, who contributed
greatly to OTR.  She was a delight at conventions

Dennis Crow

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 17:39:37 -0500
From: danhughes@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Flesh Flezmo

Hi Gordon,

WPLR is a commercial station; here they are:  [removed]

You might be able to email someone there who knows about the series.

Generally, NPR stations are at the bottom of the FM dial, in the
noncommercial part of the band ([removed] to [removed] MHz).

Scifi guy?  I used to read a lot of SF in the 60's; Bradbury and Asimov
and all the guys who wrote for Twilight Zone.  Suppose you know that
Bradbury hails from Waukegan, just like Jack Benny.  I've been there and
I can't figure out what they have there that produces such talent.

---Dan, [removed]~dan

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 17:39:39 -0500
From: Osborneam@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Bob and Ray

Can anyone steer me to where I can find a Bob and Ray log?
Arlene Osborne

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 18:49:18 -0500
From: "Mark Kinsler" <kinsler33@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Gale Storm

I read somewhere that Gale Storm won her show-business career and her stage
name in some sort of a nationwide contest.  True?

M Kinsler

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 21:32:34 -0500
From: "Jan Bach" <janbach@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  Re:  Michael Biel's comments

Hello again -

I found Michael Biel's comments -- and the information he got from other
attributed sources --  very enlightening vis-a-vis the "did they or didn't
they" question of actors' stocking feet and scripts dropped on the floor in
the early days of radio drama. I can vouch for the softness of mimeograph
paper; it was almost spongy because it had to soak up the wet-ink impression
immediately to avoid smudging before the next sheet came through the drum
and landed on the previous sheet. If anyone in the midwest wants to see some
of these old scripts, the Wisconsin Historical Society on the campus of the
U. of Wisconsin in Madison has a lot of them; I've been up there several
times to look at Paul Rhymer's scripts for Vic and Sade. They are very soft
and limp, and some look like they came off a hectagraph (?) because of the
purple ink (I don't think the so-called "Ditto" machines were available back
then), and some were obvious carbon copies from the machine that typed the
final scripts, maybe Rhymer himself. I don't remember seeing any that looked
like mimeograph copies, but then there are a lot of things I don't remember
these days!

Jan Bach

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 21:57:58 -0500
From: Terry Wallace <tdwalla@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Script-dropping tidbit

  In his memoir on Gracie, George Burns says she was a
script page-dropper.
  Cheers,
  Terry Wallace

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 23:13:55 -0500
From: wa5pdk@[removed] ([removed] L.)
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Remember Kate Smith?

I seem to recall that Kate Smith was America's favorite "songbird" at
one time. Certainly not a glamorous type, she sang songs that all of us
appreciated during the war years.  Here is one that I enjoyed listening
to on the web.  "We'll Meet
Again"....[removed]

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 00:17:27 -0500
From: chet !! <cien@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  script page droppings!

in re to dropped script pages can we move on [removed]  no one will be
able to top yesterdays discussion
thank you, chet norris

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 01:06:14 -0500
From: "A. Joseph Ross" <lawyer@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Superman's liftoff

Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 20:08:20 -0500
From: "Stephen A Kallis, Jr." <skallisjr@[removed];

As he took to the air,
Superman cried out, "Up, up, and away!" Sonovvagun! My memory was
clearer than I'd been led to believe!

Indeed so.  And sometimes, as he started to descend for landing, he would
say, "Down.  Down."  Oviously, this was one of the more clumsy ways in
which radio dialog told the listener what could not be seen.  Superman
never said that on TV, the movies, or in the comics.


 A. Joseph Ross, [removed]                        [removed]
 15 Court Square                     lawyer@[removed]
 Boston, MA 02108-2503      [removed]~lawyer/

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 01:06:16 -0500
From: "A. Joseph Ross" <lawyer@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Gale Storm

Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 20:08:18 -0500
From: Clifengr3@[removed]

I missed any previous posts on Gale Storm recordings, but if you're looking
for them you can find a few on Napster. When I searched, I came up with 3
recordings by her. they were I Hear You KNocking, Dark Moon, and Memories are
Made of This.

I remember the first two.  It seems to me that a couple of others also
recorded "Dark Moon" around the same time.

This used to happen from time to time with pop songs in the 1950s.  I
think there were two or three versions of "The Banana Boat Song," and both
Tab Hunter and Sonny James (I think) recorded "Young Love."  I think
someone else did "Blue Suede Shoes" around the same time as Elvis did,
too. I wonder why this was so common in the 1950s, but the practice had
largely died out by the 1960s.


 A. Joseph Ross, [removed]                        [removed]
 15 Court Square                     lawyer@[removed]
 Boston, MA 02108-2503      [removed]~lawyer/

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 01:06:18 -0500
From: "A. Joseph Ross" <lawyer@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Milton Berle

Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 14:54:18 -0500
From: William L Murtough <k2mfi@[removed];

I regularly went there on my way home Sunday nights ... I always
enjoyed that assignment as they had  a TV set in the recording room and
I could watch Milton Berle.

What?  But Milton Berle was on TV on Tuesday nights!  The Texaco Star
Theater began in 1948 and continued until 1953, when it was replaced by
the Buick-Berle Show.  Berle's last season on Tuesday night was the 1955-
56 season, finally under the title "The Milton Berle Show," but on only
every third week.

 A. Joseph Ross, [removed]                        [removed]
 15 Court Square                     lawyer@[removed]
 Boston, MA 02108-2503      [removed]~lawyer/

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 07:40:45 -0500
From: "stephen jansen" <stephenjansen@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  Amos and Andy in Pop Culture

>From Elizabeth McLeod in a previous post:
"Today, there's yet another real-life Mystic Knights of the Sea -- a
strange, Devo-like independent-cross-genre-parody-rock band based in San
Francisco (yes, I confess it -- I do listen to things other than OTR).
This group appears on stage in a variety of cast-off lodge regalia,
including robes and fezzes -- and uses as their rallying slogan a
variation on the words of George Stevens himself: "we are all brothers
and sisters in that great fraternity, the Mystic Knights of the Sea!"  I
suspect that Correll and Gosden would have been amazed to see that their
creation remains deeply entrenched in pop culture after more than 75
years -- even in such bizarre variations as this."

     I was just wondering if Elizabeth or anyone else is at all familiar
with Frank Zappa's album "Thing-Fish".  Frank Zappa drew from a myriad of
influences, so many at times, that like James Joyce's works, it can become
nearly impossible to fathom all of the levels that the art operates on.
Zappa often voiced his hatred of present-day radio programming with his
phrase "KILL UGLY RADIO" - when asked what was lacking, what he missed most
on radio, he answered "audio drama" (I paraphrase, but that's the gist of
it).  I expect that the mix of outrageous rock, multileveled artistic
strata, political incorrectness, and OTR (Amos and Andy) references on the
1984 album "Thing-Fish" make it a nearly inaccessable work of art.
     There are characters such as: the Thing-Fish, Sister Ob'dewlla "X",
several "Mammy" characters, the Evil Prince (who sings like an over-the-top
Al [removed] many things to mention that I believe are part of the A&A
legend.
     CAUTION!  Do NOT go out and buy this album looking for Amos and Andy
skits - the references are mostly thematic and interspersed with many
offensive in-jokes.  Much of what transpires on the album is truly ABNORMAL,
and should not be listened to without an open mind and a very broad sense of
humor.
     The album itself is rather off-topic, but where else could I possibly
find out about this misunderstood Amos and Andy/Frankenstein's monster of
music?
     Anyone out there familiar with this album?  Have some leads for me?
Comments?  Thanks!

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 07:40:48 -0500
From: Michael Biel <mbiel@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Re: THE OTHER SHOE TO DROP

From: Owens Pomeroy <george_arlis@[removed];
Thank you so much Jim Cox for being an actual "eye
witness" to script dropping. "You Were There!"

Of course this is discussing the Grand Ole Opry rather which was
composed of singers, musicians, and performers who were mainly live
stage performers who would be relatively uncomfortable using scripts--or
would have to get rid of the scripts so they could play their
instruments right after reading their introductory lines.  As was
described, in the Ryman there was a high level of ambient sound with all
the people moving around, holding conversations, and audience members
rushing up the aisles to take pictures at the foot of the stage.  It was
not very necessary to keep their scripts quiet!

I forgot (and surprised you did not mention her) Ora Nichols, who was
head of CBS SFX in tyhe 30's and provided the realistic sounds for WOTW.

Actually you didn't forget to mention her!  Although you didn't use her
name you had mentioned her so I had no need to--and I couldn't remember
her name at that time either!

And if you go back and watch the Night That Panicked America,
you will see at least 3 of the actors in stocking feet.

Who?  Tell me which actors they are (what they looked like or which
parts they played) and I will tell you the point in the film where you
can clearly tell that they are wearing shoes.  I have accounted for
shoes on every one of the actors with the obvious exception of Art
Hannes who we discussed as being the only one who is seen taking his
shoes off (unlike your earlier posting which claimed that the film shows
all the actors removing their shoes upon entering the studio--a scene
that doesn't exist.)  I looked very closely at everyone whenever their
feet were visible, which was mainly when they were seated at the
tables.  For a while it seemed possible that the Carl Philips character
might not have shoes on because his feet were not very shiny.  But there
are two shots where he is sitting with his legs crossed and you see the
tan sole of a shoe.  While there are many shots where you see Art
Hannes's shoes on the floor under his table next to his feet, whenever
you look at the floor under the other tables there are no shoes to be
seen.

Also take a look at the platform Welles is standing on.  It is
cluttered with script sheets.

Absolutely not.  First of all, Welles was using a music stand, so there
was no need to drop pages.  There are several close-up shots of his
script on the stand showing him marking the script and sliding the
sheets to the side.  But yet there is one neat pile of paper in the
front right corner of the platform that is seen early in the broadcast.
It's the rehearsal script Welles had under his arm when he arrived in
the studio.  Here's how it got there.  When he walks into the studio, he
places his hat and cane on the piano while he is talking to
The-Secretary-Of-The-Interior-Who-Wants-To-Be-Roosevelt.  After
comparing scripts with the musical director he then takes his cape off
with a flourish onto the piano and he steps onto the platform.  Under
his arm is the rehearsal script but the final script he is to use is
already on the music stand.  He glances at it and bends down to place
the older script onto the platform.  The program is beginning and he
carefully takes his coat off.   The platform is not "cluttered" with
script sheets.  There is just one neatly placed script at the front
right corner of the platform.  This bears absolutely no relationship
with dropping script pages one by one as they are finished.

And one scene, you see Kasey Kaseem, dropping a sheet of script,
but you have to look close and hit your pause button to catch
it in mid air.

I looked very closely and used the pause and slow motion buttons and
have found absolutely no instance where Casey Kasem drops a sheet of
script.  But I see where you might be mistaken.  When he is doing the
opening weather report he lowers a used script page in his left hand.
This section is shot from inside the control room, but it is obvious
that the script page is still in his hand with just a tip of it visible
above the level of the bottom of the window when the camera cuts to the
next shot.  That he has not dropped the page becomes further apparent
when we see him in a shot from inside the studio where he still has that
page in his left hand.  After his part is over Kasem is seen entering
the next shot on the right of the screen, and he is completing the
action of placing that page in the back of his script in his other
hand.  Nowhere else in the film is there any instance where it would be
even conceivable that he drops a script page.

On the other hand, there is one instance where "the late Carl Philips"
is forced to drop a page.  It is when he is doing the scene as 2X2L and
is holding an empty coffee mug over his mouth with his right hand as he
reads his lines.  He comes to the bottom of the page.  He can't put the
cup down.  There is only one short sentence before his next line.  He
pushes the top page with his thumb but two pages move.  He takes the top
page with his right hand which is also holding the cup and lowers the
page below the bottom of the screen and hurries to get the cup back to
his mouth to do his line.  It was too awkward to place the script page
behind the others with the same hand that is holding the cup because it
might have caused him to drop the page he needs now because it is only
just barely being held by his thumb.  He finds himself in the dilemma of
needing a third hand to turn his script page--he's got to do SOMETHING.
It's a neat piece of stage business.  He had been so orderly in handling
his script before--this little play with what to do with his hands adds
to the visual tension of the film's scene at a point where the action is
starting to increase--if he dropped the cup or dropped that second
script page it would have broken the increasing pace of the broadcast.
In no other place in the film does he even come close to wanting to drop
a page.  Many times he is shown sliding it behind the other pages.

As I have mentioned before, a film made many years after the OTR era
largely by people who were not a part of it is not the most
authoritative source.  But if you are going to cite it, do so
correctly.  Don't imagine things that aren't there especially when it is
so easy to actually double check it to confirm your claims.  Just
because there was a consultant who was there does not mean that every
little bit of the film is 100% accurate.  After all, people's memories
memories memories can sometimes be wrong.

All this aside, let's face it.  There were some who did and some who didn't.

We have heard directly from three very experienced OTR actors and they
additionally have relayed statements from several others that in all of
their collective experiences--which might add up to more than 50 years
of parallel time--there might be one or three examples they can recall
out of the thousands of programs and performers they've experienced.  On
the other hand, we've had only a couple of opposite examples mentioned,
one from a 1975 re-creation and another from a program using
unsophisticated musicians.  And when the evidence is accurately
examined, we see just one pair of examples from a 1975 film where a page
is dropped once for effect, and has a shoe situation that might be
re-creating the affectations of a particular individual.  And we have
your memories which seem to be constantly changing.  We can count these
cases on our fingers--and counter these with maybe tens of thousands of
cases where it didn't happen.  Can anyone cite any film or photo taken
at the time of the OTR era showing this to be a general practice?  The
instances that have been cited are notable mainly because they are so
very, very rare, like a total solar eclipse.

It was up to we individuals as to what method was best for us.

In the professional world of network radio, no, it wasn't.  Read thru
again what Hal Stone said about how he and other newbies would be shown
the proper way to handle a script by other actors.  I think in a
situation like this, if some actor started to drop his pages there would
be some strange stares from the other actors.  And the first time
someone slipped on one of the pages would probably be the last time that
script-dropping actor would be hired.

Michael Biel  mbiel@[removed]

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 09:03:43 -0500
From: Udmacon@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  RIP WSM's Uncle Dave Macon

Forty nine years ago today--March 22, 1952, Uncle Dave Macon entered
Fiddlers' Green. His last performance on the WSM Grand Ole Opry--where he was
its first superstar--was three weeks earlier.

They still talk about his funeral in Murfreesboro, TN. Every road to the town
was clogged with cars and police had to escort the cars of Minnie Pearl and
Roy Acuff through the traffic jam to the services.

Pretty good sendoff for a so-called "has-been!!"

BILL KNOWLTON: "BLUEGRASS RAMBLE," WCNY-FM: Syracuse, Utica, Watertown NY
(since 1973) Sundays, 9 pm est: [removed]

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 12:45:19 -0500
From: Elizabeth McLeod <lizmcl@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  LOC's SONIC Database

Here's something serious OTR researchers will want to check out -- the
new Sound Online and Inventory Catalog from the Library of Congress's
Recorded Sound Reference Center. It's a searchable database giving
on-line researchers access to a huge amount of information on what's
availble in the LOC's radio collection. The most significant aspect of
this database is that it includes a significant percentage of the NBC
Collection held by the Library -- documenting over 68,000 programs aired
between 1931 and 1978. This is by no means the whole collection -- but
it's enough to give you a good idea of the resources available at the
Library (as well as a leg up on getting the information you need to
obtain copies of particular programs for research use.)

The main access page can be found at
[removed]:80/cgi-bin/starfinder/139112[removed]

I've been very impressed with performance the SONIC interface, and kudos
are definitely in order for Sam, Wynn, Bryan, and the rest of the LOC
staff.

Elizabeth

--------------------------------
End of [removed] Digest V01 Issue #92
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