Subject: [removed] Digest V01 #222
From: <[removed]@[removed]>
Date: 7/9/2001 6:14 PM
To: <[removed]@[removed];

------------------------------


                      The Old-Time Radio Digest!
                         Volume 01 : Issue 222
                   A Part of the [removed]!
                           ISSN: 1533-9289


                           Today's Topics:

 Jughead's real name                  [Magilla445@[removed]                 ]
 Grown-ups playing children           [Bill Jaker <bilj@[removed];      ]
 Fibber McGee                         [Jim Widner <jwidner@[removed];       ]
 SPERDVAC Convention                  [Jim Widner <jwidner@[removed];       ]
 Bob & ray on WOR in NY               ["Art Shifrin" <goldens2@[removed]]
 Re: Visiting A Radio Show            [Udmacon@[removed]                    ]
 Nigel Bruce                          [Harry Bartell <bartell@[removed]]
 Re: SPERDVAC convention              [StevenL751@[removed]                 ]
 Program Content                      [Dennis W Crow <DCrow3@[removed]]
 THE SHADOW NOT SUITABLE FOR JUVENILE ["Owens Pomeroy" <opomeroy@[removed]; ]
 studio audience, name origins        [dabac@[removed]                    ]
 Swift's radio jingle                 ["greg przywara" <orsonwelles3@home.]
 Radio version of "Green Pastures"    ["greg przywara" <orsonwelles3@home.]
 Hopalong Cassidy copyright           ["A. Joseph Ross" <lawyer@attorneyro]
 Funniest Show                        ["Stephen A Kallis, Jr." <skallisjr@]
 Fibber's name                        [Eric Cooper <ejcooper2001@[removed];]
 Re: SPERDVAC Convention & Website    [Timothy Clough <tmclough@[removed];]
 Gildersleeve origins                 ["Brian Johnson" <CHYRONOP@worldnet.]
 good collection of radio magazines?  [Michael Henry <mlhenry@[removed];]
 Radio Museum Moves                   [dougdouglass@[removed]             ]
 Re: Novels                           [Ga6string@[removed]                  ]
 funniest episode                     [Jer51473@[removed]                   ]
 Benny-Allen correction               ["Ted Kneebone" <tkneebone1@[removed]]
 SPERDVAC                             [FIRESIDE23@[removed]                 ]
 RE: Irving Berlin On The Radio       [OTRDSIEGEL@[removed]                 ]

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 21:42:22 -0400
From: Magilla445@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Jughead's real name

In a message dated 7/8/01 7:39:11 PM Central Daylight Time,
[removed]@[removed] writes:

Certainly when he was born his mother didnt look down at him and say "I
shall call him Jughead". Maybe the answer to this came up earlier and I
missed it, if not does anyone know?

I believe his "real" name was Forsythe P. Jones (possibly with a "the
third" or "the fourth"), if memory serves.

About 1965, I remember reading an Archie comics story about how Jughead got
his name.  It involved Jughead's Mom coming home from the hospital with the
new baby,
named Forsythe P. Jones.  On a comical note, Jughead's Grandpa (who is a
spitting image of teenaged Jughead, big ears and all) says:  "Forysthe?  He
looks like a 'Jughead' to me!"

Ron Frantz

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 22:01:01 -0400
From: Bill Jaker <bilj@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Grown-ups playing children

Gerry Halpern wrote:

Having been an avid reader of Archie comic books as a kid, I was filled
with
excitement when my parents took me to the radio studio from which the show
was broadcast.  I fully expected to see a live performance of the comic
book
characters in full costume acting out the script.  What a disappointment to
find a bunch of people reading from paper scripts and sitting in front of
[removed] not to mention the fact that the actors were so old
(probably
over 30) and looked nothing like their characters!  Did anyone else out
there have a similar traumatic experience?

Yes, indeed.  At the age of about six my folks took me to a "Baby
Snooks" broadcast and I was startled to see a very grown-up Fanny Brice
playing a little kid.  On the other hand, had it really be a kid like me
I would have been jealous and wondered why I couldn't be on the radio
too.

Also, Charlie North asked about our funniest radio comedy episode.  My
favorite is the surrealistic but somehow credible scene when Fibber
McGee steps in fresh tar and gets stuck in the street.  It's a situation
that could only work on radio, the dialogue and timing is impeccable
and, like much comedy, it's really not funny, which makes it funnier.

--Bill Jaker

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 22:47:13 -0400
From: Jim Widner <jwidner@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Fibber McGee

Kenneth Clarke asks:
He even referred to himself as "Fibber McGee", at least in the tapes
I have of this program. Can anyone provide an explanation which will bring
a close to this question?

According to "Heavenly Days" by Charles Stumpf and Tom Price the ad agency
man in charge of the new show with Jim and Marion Jordan, Jack Louis, he
felt a new character name was needed for the show instead of the Luke Gray
character from Smackout. He felt based upon the exaggerations of Jordan's
Smackout role, the name should imply what a liar he is when he tells a
story. The book quotes Jordan: "At the next meeting Don Quinn came in with
a slip of paper. I'll never forget this, it was about an inch high and
eight inches wide. He had it all decorated up like a commercial artist
would do. On it it said: 'FIBBER MCGEE.' He put the paper down on the desk
and that was it!"

So it appears the name came from Don Quinn the show's writer.



Jim Widner
jwidner@[removed]

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 22:47:02 -0400
From: Jim Widner <jwidner@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  SPERDVAC Convention

Mike Campbell asks:
I am trying to get information on this year's SPERDVAC convention. My attempt
to contact their web site shows "not found". Any help would be appreciated.

There will be no SPERDVAC Convention this year. They were not able to find
someone willing to chair this year's convention. So the board canceled
plans for one this year.

Their web site is [removed]


Jim Widner
jwidner@[removed]

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 23:38:18 -0400
From: "Art Shifrin" <goldens2@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  Bob & ray on WOR in NY

I still chuckle when I think of some of the stuff they [removed] made it a
point to tape the afternoon show just to catch their stuff.  One of the
funniest was a guy selling a light bulb filament replacement kit. And of
course, there was Mary Backstage, Noble Wife.

Wonderful stuff!
Shiffy

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 23:38:16 -0400
From: Udmacon@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Re: Visiting A Radio Show

As a kid in the 40s the first radio show I was ever taken to was "Let's
Pretend." And, like other posters, I was disappointed that the show had no
costumes or scenery; just people of varied ages standing before microphones.

The rear of the stage though had a curtain containing a cutout of an antique
ship. And the performers did their best to gesture and move to get us more
involved.

And the warmup, with Uncle Bill Adams, really got us going despite the early
letdown when we went on the air (But "live!" What fun it was to know that our
cheers and applause were being heard everywhere at that very moment!)

As I grew up in a suburb of NYC, going "into town" and trying to get into
radio shows was what we kids occasionally did during vacations and on
weekends. We'd get tickets and then ask some adult to act as a "chaperone" to
get us in since we were under sixteen.

I remember that one show, "Borden's County Fair," had scenery; a rural
backdrop.

Arthur Godfrey's studio was very Art Deco, and Godfrey sat at a desk
perpendicular to the audience, facing his cast all seated in rows of chairs
facing HIM. As I remember, Godfrey more or less concentrated on the mike
before him rather than looking to his right at the studio audience.

Of course scenery was always important to radio barn dances; the WLS National
Barn Dance had a beautiful set of a barn interior as did the WWVA Jamboree.
The Renfro Valley Barn Dance in Kentucky literally came from a rustic wooden
barn built for the show, and the Grand Ole Opry's sponsors each had their own
colorful flats during their fifteen or 30 minute segments (Prince Albert,
Martha White Flour, Royal Crown Cola, Stephens Work Clothes, Purina, Walrite
Wallpaper, Jefferson Island Salt, Coca Cola, etc., etc.)

I'm glad I was born in 1938 and being a New York City kid devoted to radio
that wasn't called "oldtime" back then!


Bill Knowlton, "BLUEGRASS RAMBLE," WCNY-FM: Syracuse, Utica, Watertown NY
(since Jan. 1973). Sundays, 9 pm est: [removed]

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 23:38:14 -0400
From: Harry Bartell <bartell@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Nigel Bruce

Arago17320 inquires about Nigel Bruce.

He was called "Willie" by those who knew him, and while I worked with
him for 39 weeks, I never really got to know him well. Our contacts were
almost exclusively in the studio and he was a great deal more reserved
personally than the Dr. Watson who opened the shows. Basil Rathbone was
much more outgoing. Together, they did a lot of clowning during
rehearsals but were strictly professional once we got on the air.

Harry Bartell

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 23:51:00 -0400
From: StevenL751@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Re: SPERDVAC convention

In a message dated 07/08/2001 8:39:12 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[removed]@[removed] writes:


I am trying to get information on this year's SPERDVAC convention. My
attempt
to contact their web site shows "not found". Any help would be appreciated.

SPERDVAC will not be having a convention this year.  The Gassman brothers,
who in the past have been the driving force behind the convention, were too
busy to do the organization work this year and nobody else was able to take
on the responsibility.  As far as I know it's currently unknown whether their
convention will return in the future or not.

Steve Lewis

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 23:50:59 -0400
From: Dennis W Crow <DCrow3@[removed];
To: OTR Digest <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  Program Content

J. Fred MacDonald in his book, DON'T TOUCH THAT DIAL [Nelson-Hall, 1979],
discusses the famous Benny-Allen feud.  MacDonald notes  that while Fred
Allen and Jack Benny both had different sponsors, they were represented,
during the time of the feud, by the same advertising agency. The agency
could assure that the feud didn't get out of hand and remain profitable for
all parties.

Which brings me to a question.  Who exercised greater control over program
content: the advertiser or its agency?  Did big companies place trust in
others to best represent their interests and determine what would sell, or
did the corporations who controlled the purse-strings really call the
shots. Or was it a combination of both forces at work?

Dennis Crow

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 00:07:06 -0400
From: "Owens Pomeroy" <opomeroy@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  THE SHADOW NOT SUITABLE FOR JUVENILE AUDIENCES

I was reading an old issue of Radio Mirror the other day and came across an
article that really threw me>  It said that the Catholic Legion Of Decency
has condemned the radio program and its sponsors Blue Coal, for broadcasting
a program "of unmoral character. The young lady, Marfgo Lane, is referred to
as 'his constant companion', without the mention of marriage.  Such a show
should not be listened to by by young audiences under the age of consent."
(whatever that is supposed to mean).

As silly as that statement sounds today, back then it was serious business
to monitor the radio programs and rate them accordingly.  I wonder if anyone
of our posters (media or otherwise, ever ran across a situation such as this
during radio's hey-day?

Owens Pomeroy

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 00:53:16 -0400
From: dabac@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  studio audience, name origins

I could understand where some impressionable children might`ve been
somewhat disillusioned  attending an old radio performance. I would`nt
be suprised if many uninformed adults may have had misconceptions also
in those days. I myself really did`nt learn about these things until I
began studying up on otr. Elsewhere, concerning the poster who asked if
maybe some of us may have gone too far with the origins of characters
names and such - and suggested that maybe we should forget about this
type of thing -  while I am sure you could take this subject, like
anything else to extremes, I have to wonder what he meant by "too far"?
I find this type of thing interesting and from a otr fans point of veiw,
don`t see how this differs from other inquiries about aspects of the
shows. Limiting the parameters of the discussion to the degree
suggested, would make for a lot less content, and IMO, a much more
boring digest. Though I understand this may have been an expression of a
personal preference, I felt I should clarify this.  Dan

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 00:53:41 -0400
From: "greg przywara" <orsonwelles3@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  Swift's radio jingle

Been enjoying Hal Stone's witty and insightful postings ever since he
started putting them up. Would like to know if he and the rest of the cast
had to sing along to the Swift's Premium's Franks Jingle ("Tender beef,
juicy pork, known from the west coast to New [removed]) or if this was the job
of the tykes in the peanut gallery. And as long as we are on the subject of
music, I am dying to know who was the organist on the program. Was it the
same individual who did the fantastic keyboard work for "Boston Blackie" or
Rosa Rio who played for "Guiding Light"?

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 01:42:23 -0400
From: "greg przywara" <orsonwelles3@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  Radio version of "Green Pastures"

This is a question for the Theater Guild on the Air experts out there:
I recently heard the TGOTA version of Marc Connely's "The Green Pastures"
and would like to know if the radio play was done by an all-black cast like
the stage and screen versions. It's kind of odd that some of the players
sound like the Amos and Andy style white dialecticians and yet the Hal
Johnson Choir, one of the most prestigious African-American gospel groups of
its day, is singing excerpts from spirituals here.
Furthermore, I've always thought of TGOTA to be one of the more PC old shows
because they took great care to edit out a lot of the racist language that
permeated a lot of twenties and thirties stage plays when they broadcast the
radio versions. A good example would be "They Knew what they Wanted" which
was aired 5/19/46. The original stage play is just boiling over with
anti-Italian slurs and the radio version just replaces the slurs with the
neutral "Italian".

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 01:42:25 -0400
From: "A. Joseph Ross" <lawyer@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Hopalong Cassidy copyright

Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2001 11:05:29 -0400
From: "David L. Easter" <david-easter@[removed];

This is_not_the William Boyd Hopalong Cassidy, but it is a fun watch. More
to the point Amazing Movies must know something about the Hopalong Cassidy
trademark.

This is a perfect example of the difference between a copyright and a
trademark.  The original Hopalong Cassidy films and radio shows may still
be under copyright, but the trademark may be available.  Which means that
the original shows can't be distributed or copied from without permission
of the rights owner, but the name can be used.

Another example:  As many of us know, the TV version of Captain Midnight
was later re-released under the name "Jet Jackson."  There is now a
character on the Disney Channel named "Jett Jackson."  I don't think the
character bears any resemblance to the old Captain Midnight/Jet Jackson.
The shows, if one can find them, are probably still under copyright, but
the name can be used again.


 A. Joseph Ross, [removed]                           [removed]
 15 Court Square, Suite 210          lawyer@[removed]
 Boston, MA 02108-2503           [removed]

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 08:12:30 -0400
From: "Stephen A Kallis, Jr." <skallisjr@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Funniest Show

I doubt that there is any one show that really can be isolated as "the
funniest."  Oddly, one of the funniest episodes I've heard was the second
half of a Phil Harris-Alice Faye show.  The first half was only okay, but
about halfway through, Julius Abbruzzio approached Phil and Remley with a
problem: he was in love, and wanted their help.  They decided to hide in
the bushes and when Julius strolled by with the girl he adored, they'd
sing romantic songs.  Julius couldn't talk the girl to walk with him, but
she asked him to walk her dog.  And as he walked, he spoke to the dog,
who Phil and Frankie couldn't see ....

I've often pointed out that the Phil Harris-Alice Faye show is one of the
timeless ones.  This episode is an excellent example of why.

Stephen A. Kallis, Jr.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 11:39:09 -0400
From: Eric Cooper <ejcooper2001@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Fibber's name

Yeah, Think this is going too far (this "what's their real name?" game).Comedy
writers came up with funny names for their own reasoons , let's just leave it
at
that. There was a Fibber episode in which he tried to change his name to
Ronald,
but in came to nought
(<whisper> By the way, I don't want to "traumatize" members of this list any
further <grin>, but Jack Benny's real name was Benjamin Kulbelsky and Geroge
Burns' real moniker was Nathan [removed] remember you didn't hear it from
me!!<another grin>)

Seriously I believe THE WORLD ALMANAC and possibly other sources have lists of
stage and real names, old and new.

Eric Cooper

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 11:39:11 -0400
From: Timothy Clough <tmclough@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Re: SPERDVAC Convention & Website

On Sun, 8 Jul 2001 at 18:22:05 -0400, FIRESIDE23@[removed] wrote:

I am trying to get information on this year's SPERDVAC convention. My attempt
to contact their web site shows "not found". Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Mike Campbell


First off, SPERDVAC has a new website, one which still needs a lot of work
to be done. Its URL is [removed] .

Secondly, re: their convention, their isn't going to be one this year.
Apparently no one came forward to chair it. The full story (well, as
full as it gets) is on page 4 of the June issue of Radiogram.

Timothy Clough

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 11:40:37 -0400
From: "Brian Johnson" <CHYRONOP@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  Gildersleeve origins

This from "The Gildersleeve Geneology Forum":

"According to Willard Harvey Gildersleeve in his book "GILDERSLEEVE
PIONEERS" , Gildersleeve/Gyldensleve is an old English Name going back as
early as the Hundred Rolls of 1273. They may have gotten the name from
"Sleeves braided with gold" Family tradition (mine) says that they were cup
bearers to the King of England.
(signed) Richard P. M. Gildersleeve"

Who knows where Don Quinn got it? The phone book? A famous Gildersleeve of
the day?

Brj

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 11:40:47 -0400
From: Michael Henry <mlhenry@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  good collection of radio magazines?

The Library of American Broadcasting at the University of
Maryland in College Park, MD has an extensive collection of
radio magazines, including RADIO GUIDE, RADIO MIRROR, RADIO
STARS, RADIO DOINGS, RADIO DAILY, RADIO NEWS, RADIO
BROADCAST, BROADCASTING, SPONSOR, and many others. You can
find a complete listing of our holdings of periodicals and
other material on our website:

[removed]

Our collection is non-circulating, but you are welcome to
visit the LAB Monday-Friday, 9-5. If you are unable to
visit, we can do limited research and photocopying for you.
Since most of these magazines are not indexed, any specific
information would be very helpful. Please see the website
for specific fees and policies.

Good luck with your research.

-Michael Henry
Library of American Broadcasting
mlhenry@[removed]
(301) 314-0397

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 11:46:23 -0400
From: dougdouglass@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Radio Museum Moves

The National Broadcasters Hall of Fame is returning to New Jersey.  The
museum, honoring those who made contributions in radio, was founded on
April 17, 1977 in Freehold, New Jersey and moved to Los Angeles in the
early '90s.  Officials at the
InfoAge Science Center at Camp Evans in Wall Township hope to have the
exhibits back in New Jersey by October.
The museum includes 48,000 broadcasts as well as artifacts and
memorabilia from radio's golden age. It will be operated by Hall of Fame
founder, Arthur Schreiber and curator, Fred Shay, who lobbied with the
New Jersey Broadcasters Association find a new home.

---Doug

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 11:44:56 -0400
From: Ga6string@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Re: Novels

Hi everyone!

Stephen Kallis commented on the set of OTR "novels" I'd purchased:
... Which brings up an interesting thought.  If we include Bold Venture as
an OTR "novel," I wonder how many "novels" were written for OTR. Probably
many tens of [removed]

Indeed. Actually, I think the Bold Venture episode was nothing more than
filler for the B side of the Maltese Falcon episode. But why not actually
find another great OTR broadcast of a program that had originally appeared as
a novel? There probably *are* thousands of those to choose from.

Another disappointing thing about this set: The illustrations on the box
include an image that clearly appears to be Henry Fonda, but Fonda does not
appear on the unidentified 60-minute "Grapes of Wrath" episode (which is
pretty good, I must admit) that is included. I was disappointed, though, that
Fonda did not appear in this broadcast. Fonda had a great voice for radio,
don't you think (consider "My Darling Clementine," Lux, 4/28/47)?

To follow up on my original post, I've identified the two Lux performances:
"The Scarlet Pimpernel" 12/12/38
"Rebecca" 11/6/50

Thanks also to Susan Flewelling for info on the "Maltese Falcon" episode
(Academy Award, 7/3/46). There was also a performance of the "Maltese Falcon"
on the Lady Esther Screen Guild Theatre (9/20/43) with the original stars and
a 60-minute Lux version (2/8/43) with a different cast, including Edward G.
Robinson as Spade. Of these, I like to Lady Esther version best, for its
pace, continuity and for the actors' performances.

I'm still trying to identify the program and date of the "Grapes of Wrath"
broadcast. Any "leads" are appreciated!

Thanks,
Bryan Powell

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 11:44:54 -0400
From: Jer51473@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  funniest episode

 First of all Phil Harris and Alice Faye is the funniest show of all, Imo,
followed closely by JB, M&M, and A&A, again IMO. An A&A episode comes to my
mind when i think of the funniest episode. I dont remember the date, but the
title goes as either  "The Debate" or "The Great Debate" and it involves a
debate between Shorty and one of the lawyers, probably Gabby. If you get a
chance listen to this and burst a gut, at least I do every time I hear it. I
probably have equal favorites of Harris and Benny, but this one A&A always
comes to mind.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 12:55:22 -0400
From: "Ted Kneebone" <tkneebone1@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  Benny-Allen correction

Someone has written a fairly accurate account of the beginning of the
Benny-Allen feud, but I must make a correction and add something.  The music
was played by Steward Canin on Allen's program and was "The Bee" by
Schubert, not the RK "Flight of the bumblebee."  If my memory is correct, I
think the boy was about 10 years old at his first performance, and Allen had
him back on his show again when he was about 13.  Unfortunately, the
recording I have has not only the commercials cut, but most of the music.
There remains just the first few bars of the Schubert work.  I do not have
the boy's first appearance, but would like to find it.

Ted Kneebone / 1528 S. Grant St. / Aberdeen, SD 57401 / 605-226-3344
tkneebone1@[removed] | OTR:  [removed]
[removed]  |

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 14:51:42 -0400
From: FIRESIDE23@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  SPERDVAC

Thanks to all who replied to my query on the SPERDVAC convention. Naturally I
am disappointed as I had a conflict and could not attend the Seattle
convention this year.
I am far behind in reading my digests or perhaps I would have known the
answer.
I am new at this convention thing. Are there any conventions in the western
[removed] for the rest of the year or for that matter any others anywhere in the
States.
Thank you again,
Mike Campbell

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 20:04:34 -0400
From: OTRDSIEGEL@[removed]
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  RE: Irving Berlin On The Radio

  Koch International Classics has just released a CD entitled IRVING SINGS
BERLIN.
   The CD features a number of excerpts of Irving Berlin as heard on the
radio as early as early as 1934. There are a number of different radio
appearnces of the great American composer on this CD.
    Dave Siegel

--------------------------------
End of [removed] Digest V01 Issue #222
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