Subject: [removed] Digest V2003 #251
From: "OldRadio Mailing Lists" <[removed]@[removed];
Date: 6/26/2003 9:03 AM
To: <[removed]@[removed];

------------------------------


                            The Old-Time Radio Digest!
                              Volume 2003 : Issue 251
                         A Part of the [removed]!
                                 ISSN: 1533-9289


                                 Today's Topics:

  Barnouw Columbia-centric?             [ chris chandler <chrischandler84@yah ]
  Re: Edgar Stehli                      [ SanctumOTR@[removed] ]
  Disk Transcriptions--How They Came T  [ Faulknerian189@[removed] ]
  Barnouw (gasp!)                       [ Mike Martini <mmartini@[removed] ]
  RE: Short wave radios in automobiles  [ "Jack Feldman" <qualitas@millenicom ]
  June 26th birthdays                   [ Ron Sayles <bogusotr@[removed]; ]
  Reporter killed in bombing over Berl  [ Jim Widner <jwidner@[removed]; ]
  Re: Gunsmoke                          [ "Bob Watson" <crw934@[removed]; ]
  Erik Barnouw                          [ Howard Blue <khovard@[removed]; ]
  re: Edison's Frankenstein             [ "Mark E. Higgins" <paul_frees_fan@a ]
  museum of radio and television        [ "Mark Kinsler" <kinsler33@[removed] ]

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 12:08:30 -0400
From: chris chandler <chrischandler84@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Barnouw Columbia-centric?

Mike Martini defends Mr. [removed]

Was Barnouw "Columbia-centric?"  Possibly.

I can't speak to much of the rest of this dispute,
since I haven't touched the Barnouw tomes since I was
in college 15 years ago.  However, I feel honor-bound
to rise to Elizabeth's defense on this one point in
Mike's rebuttal:

But he recognized and, more importantly, was brave
enough to write that CBS was the "creative"
network and NBC was the "commercial" network

This is so untrue, and it was as demonstrably untrue
35 years ago as it is today.  Perhaps [removed]

Barnouw was one of the few who really knew Robson and
was  good friends with Corwin, Murrow and others.

...goes a ways to explaining how Barnouw's perception
ended up the way it did, and therefore how much of
radio 'history' has been portrayed in the years
afterward.  Mike used the phrases "East Coast
academics" and "eltists" half in jest, but Elizabeth
is absolutely right:  the number of people who ever
even HEARD one of Norman Corwin's extravaganzas is
tee-ninsy in mass audience terms, and the number of
people who thought those programs were the
greatest-thing-since-sliced bread is even smaller.

And while those people may well be smarter, more
discerning and critically adept than the great
unwashed who preferred Charlie McCarthy instead, the
fact that these elitists (with a small 'e', i don't
mean the word as an insult)have held sway with their
version of broadcast history for the last decades have
done a palpable disservice to to the 'real' story--a
story that's richer, more complex, and far more
two-sided than is usually portrayed.

Just a very few of the best-known examples.  Mention
"Columbia Workshop" and I'll mention the NBC
Shakespeare productions, or Toscanini.  Mention "The
Eagle's Brood", and I'd mention "The Quick and the
Dead".  Toss out "On A Note Of Triumph", and I'd ask
if you've ever heard the program called "Milestones on
the Road to Peace"; NBC's contribution to V-E Day
posterity was an equally stirring, equally
well-produced, and indeed somewhat less pretensious
affair than the Corwin spectacular.  The programs take
different approaches to their subject, but in terms of
skill, talent, and network commitment, there's little
difference in the two.  Yet which has gotten more ink
over the years, and why?

Then of course there's the huge disparity between
press and historical treatments of the two networks'
news operations, a well known pet peeve of mine.  :)
CBS neither invented nor dominated broadcast
journalism in the 1938-45 period, and some of the
well-work truisms ("The World News Roundup has run
continously for 65 years!") are outright falsehoods.

I'll spare everybody another recounting of more
details, unless somebody's interested; suffice it to
say Bill Paley's post-Anchluss public relations blitz
paid dividends literally for decades afterward, far
beyond what he could have imagined at the time--and
it's demonstrably true that, by late in the war,
*something* (possibly that the more highbrow CBS
on-air presentation was preferred by snooty critics)
was winning CBS's news coverage glowing press reviews
NBC often couldn't match, even on occasions when the
NBC efforts were clearly better.  Much in the way
Aaron Brown gets eons of press today, even though
nobody watches his program.

IMHO, CBS (even before Paley "bought" what he needed
in '47 and '48) was the more creative network
during that period and so why should Barnouw ignore
this?

IMHO, this is just silly.  It's not CBS-bashing to
point out the 'real' story of the era is somewhat
broader.  It doesn't denigrate CBS's achievements to
point up some of the other networks'.   And the idea
that CBS in the pre-Benny era was a combination of
NPR, the BBC, and the Royal Shakespeare Company, even
while NBC greedily filled every corner of its schedule
with lowest-common-denominator garbage, is
nonsensical.  The network was well on its way to a
more competitive position even before the network
landed many of the former NBC stars.  Mel Blanc and
"Academy Award" didn't do it for them, but "My Friend
Irma" opened the floodgates, both in theory and in
practice.  And anybody who believes the network
wouldn't have tossed Corwin or the 'Workshop' aside
earlier, if the commercial conditions had been right,
is simply naive.

chris

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 12:12:04 -0400
From: SanctumOTR@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Re: Edgar Stehli

In a message dated 6/25/03 12:48:49 AM, [removed]@[removed]
writes:

His name was mentioned in a recent message, but the unusual surname
was misspelled.  He had a great deal of distinction as an actor,
beginning with the quality and nature of his voice, and I believe he
appeared in movies, too.

***Edgar Stehli also costarred as Dr. Einstein opposite Boris Karloff in the
original Broadway cast of ARSENIC AND OLD LACE, and reprised his stage role
with Boris in the BEST PLAYS radio adaptation. --Anthony Tollin***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 13:04:14 -0400
From: Faulknerian189@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Disk Transcriptions--How They Came To Be
 Discovered
X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative
X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain

I have been reading with great interest the many postings about original disk
transcriptions from the days of old time radio.  I am always fascinated by
the many recording methods of those days.  However, I think it would be of
exceeding interest to many old time radio enthusiasts if we could solicit more
input from those whose knowledge is greater than mine on just how radio shows
were
discovered, and the inexplicable ways they were transferred to tape and then
shared.  For example, anyone out there know stories of how some important
shows were relocated after hiding away in basements, old radio studios, etc?
How
were these transcribed to tape and/or how the disks were cleaned.

Is it true that in the very early days of OTR, i. e., the 1930s, the speeds
of the transcriptions disks were 78 rpm, later to be reduced to 33 1/3?

How is that so many shows were discovered here and there, while many other
gems are sadly long lost or not found?  Is it true that the stations were
supposed to have destroyed or returned to the producer those old radio shows,
and
what happened to the people who violated that requirement?

I hope those in the know will be willing to share their many valuable
experiences and knowledge with a novice.  Thanks, Jim Faulkner

  *** This message was altered by the server, and may not appear ***
  ***                  as the sender intended.                   ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 15:10:29 -0400
From: Mike Martini <mmartini@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Barnouw (gasp!)

I want to thank both Elizabeth and Dr. Biel for their response to my
response to the original comments (follow that?) regarding Mr. Barnouw.  I
have such high regard and admiration for both (Elizabeth's "Top 100 radio
events of the 20th Century" sits proudly on my bulletin board and NO-ONE
knows more about early recordings than Dr. Biel) and I'm sure Barnouw
himself would be tickled by such lively debate (in fact he would've been 95
one month from today) were he around today.

I promise not to hash over this anymore after this.  I think we all agree
that that the trilogy has flaws but was overall well done--especially
considering when it was written.  Nothing has come down the pike since that
compares--at least in it's all-encompassing terms (although I'm excited
about the new Encylcopedia everyone is talking about!)  Barnouw was
reluctantly pushed into many of his projects.  Little, Brown begged him to
do the "Handbooks of Radio" back in the 40's because he was a willing and
handy (teaching at Columbia at the time) soul.  Barnouw, himself, would
agree that he never would have written the history trilogy in the 60's if
Oxford [removed] didn't practically beg him to do it.  Seems a similar book they
were publishing at the time on British radio comvinced the publisher that
someone was needed on this shore to do the same for American radio.  Keep
in mind that Barnouw was not, initially anyway, a historian.  He was an
academic who just happened to live through the history of broadcasting and
happened to know many people in the business.  He was much more proud of
his work in contemporary topics--documentaries, foreign film, as
editor-in-chief of the International Encyclopedia of Communications, etc.
But he reluctantly agree and the rest is, to use the pun, history.  As I
said, late in his life Daniel Boorstin practically begged him to help found
the broadcast and film division at the LOC.  So I don't hink he approached
history the same way a born-and-raised historian would.  At least that's my
perception.

Back to the trilogy--I do apreciate Elizabeth and Dr. Biel's
comments--especially about a perceived lack of detail about the 20's and
30's.  I defer to them as that period is right smack dab in their area of
expertise.  We'll have to disagree about the neverending NBC/CBS debate.
For my tastes and with only a few exceptions (and, please know that this is
my opinion and not a slam on anyone) but interesting and creative drama
began with Columbia Workshop.  I never was a big Oboler guy.  Sorry.

I don't know how I originally got this "bur in my britches" (I think it was
the original "Barnouw was very much a cultural snob" comment) about Mr. B.
Hmmm. At least in my exerience, I found him to be funny, sweet, candid and
curious--even at age 92--about what was "next" in broadcasting.  Plus he
had a darn good voice.  That said, I love the lively debate and fascinating
people who contribute to this list and I promise to shut up now and return
to my desk and be a good boy.

[removed] thanks for the recent thread about New York broadcast sites.  I'll be
in the "big city" briefly later this week for the "Festival" and now have a
few ideas of how to kill a couple of hours.

You are all Great!  Keep up the fascinating discussions!
Mike Martini

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 15:16:50 -0400
From: "Jack Feldman" <qualitas@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  RE: Short wave radios in automobiles

European car radios often have short wave bands on them. I have a mono
Becker Europa (the name was used over for a number of models) which had AM,
FM, LW, and the 49M short wave band that was installed on my 72 MG.

Becker now makes a Becker Mexico (again, a model name re used several
times), that covers a number of short wave bands, has outputs for four
speakers and a cassette player. Strange that it has no clock. I believe it
sells for $500. By being patient I got a refurbished one. It was just
installed in the MG so I can't really review it accurately, but it seems to
have a weak front end and a poor AGC (automatic gain controle used to smooth
out fading). I probably shouldn't make the above statement until I spend
more time traveling, but it does seem to have trouble bringing in WWV (10
and 15 Mghz are the only ones it tunes) clearly some time.

Jack

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 17:12:24 -0400
From: Ron Sayles <bogusotr@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  June 26th birthdays

June 26th births

06-26-1894 - William Wirges - Buffalo, NY - d. 9-28-1971
conductor: "Club Valspar"; "Arabesque"; "Gold Dust Twins"
06-26-1900 - Richard Crooks - Trenton, NJ - d. 10-1-1972
singer: "Voice of Firestone"
06-26-1904 - Peter Lorre - Rozsahegy, Hungary - d. 3-23-1964
actor: "Creeps By Night"; "Inner Sanctum Mysteries"; "Mystery in the Air"
06-26-1922 - Eleanor Parker - Cedarville, OH
actress: "Screen Guild Theatre"

June 26th deaths

05-20-1899 - Stan Lomax - Pittsburgh, PA - d. 6-26-1987
sportscaster: "Evening Journal Sports"
06-04-1891 - Erno Rapee - Budapest, Hungary - d. 6-26-1945
conductor: "Roxy"s Gang"; "General Motors Concert"
08-18-1900 - Walter O"Keefe - Hartford, CT - d. 6-26-1983
comedian, emcee: "Camel Caravan"; "Town Hall Tonight"; "Double or Nothing"
11-19-1921 - Roy Campenella - d. 6-26-1993
sports news: "Campy"s Corner"

Ron Sayles
Milwaukee, Wisconsin
Hometown of [removed] Kaltenborn and Spencer Tracy

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 18:33:30 -0400
From: Jim Widner <jwidner@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Reporter killed in bombing over Berlin

It was asked:

2. did anyone from the cbs news staff in london get killed in the german
bombings of that city during world war 2?

Don't recall a CBS reporter, but there was a print reporter named Robert
Post, who I believe was a correspondent with The New York Times, who was
killed when the Liberator he was on was shot down in a bombing raid over
Berlin.

Walter Cronkite formerly of CBS writes about this in his book "A Reporter's
Life" because there were two groups of reporters who went on the run -
Cronkite was on one and a volunteer was needed for the Liberator, so Bob
Post volunteered.

Jim Widner
jwidner@[removed]

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 18:51:38 -0400
From: "Bob Watson" <crw934@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  Re:  Gunsmoke

Kathy wrote:

1. i was listening to a 1953 recording of gunsmoke.   the announcer said:
"around dodge city and in the territory on west"
the memory chip in my head remembers - "around dodge city and in the
territory out west"
was that phrase used in the television series gunsmoke ?
or was it used at one time on the radio show gunsmoke?
or is my memory chip damaged

Kathy, don't feel bad if you feel like your memory chip has been damaged.
I, too, seem to remember the opening as saying "out west."  But my first
exposure to the radio version of Gunsmoke was listening very late on a
Sunday night to WBAP in Dallas/Ft. Worth, TX.  AM signals being what they
are, there was a lot of fading in and out, some nights worse than others.
As I have always lived in the Central Georgia area, reception was never
perfect.

Since every tape recording I have has the introduction as "on west", I have
rationalized that poor AM reception, plus the lateness of the hour that I
was exposed to the broadcasts, caused me to fill in what my ears could not
plainly hear.  Thus, "On West", through a poorly tuned radio, became "out
West."

I very much prefer this explaination over the idea that "MY" memory chip is
becoming damaged.  <LOL>

Still, I hope someone out there has an "out west" confirmation for both of
us, since it would vindicate both our memories.

Bob

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 18:50:56 -0400
From: Howard Blue <khovard@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Erik Barnouw

Some reactions to recent  comments about Erik Barnouw  and his history of
broadcasting:

	First, if Barnouw is accused of  using primary sources "not often
enough,"  I won't directly dispute that allegation--since I don't know
what "not often enough" means.  But I did use some of the original
sources that Barnouw used--interviews that he himself conducted. I must
comment that he was an important and frequent creator/collector of
invaluable information in the form of the those interviews.  They are
housed in the Columbia University  Oral History Office.

	Secondly, my friend Mike Biel commented a) that he often takes what
Barnouw says with a "bucket of grains of salt" and b) he often finds
that Barnouw misinterprets the info in the  original source or, as
Elizabeth indicates, twists it towards his own
 theories and views. I would be very interested if Mike and Elizabeth
would elaborate on these two points.

Finally, Elizabeth, (whom I also admire) wrote that

Barnouw seems to imply that true creativity in broadcasting began with
Robson and Corwin and their contemporaries -- and this simply isn't true.
You need only compare the comparatively superficial treatment given Arch
Oboler in "The Golden Web" to the lavish and detailed examination of
Norman Corwin to see Barnouw's Columbiacentrism in action.

	My response is that Barnouw is in good company ([removed] with the several
important radio critics) when, as he told me during an interview a few
years before his death,  he perceived Oboler "as being a rather gimmicky
writer" whose work would not stand the test of time. Even Oboler's work
on the series for which he is best-known, LIGHTS OUT, was based on the
work of the real pioneer, Wyllis (sp?) Cooper. In addition (as I document
in WORDS AT WAR), in his time, on two prominent occasions Oboler was even
accused of plagiarism. One of the accusers was his former assistant.

	One last thought--if Barnouw  is accused up being too Columbiacentric
(CBScentric) it's not for having had no experience at NBC where he was a
chief script editor.

Howard Blue
[removed]

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 21:52:57 -0400
From: "Mark E. Higgins" <paul_frees_fan@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  re: Edison's Frankenstein

     Many thanks to Martin Grams for his piece on Edison's
Frankenstein.  I have known Al Dettlaff for many years, and am glad to
hear that he has finally released Edison's classic.  Al is a sweet old
eccentric, and it is unfortunate that over the years, he has never had
the resources to develop some of the properties which he owns.  I saw
Edison's Frankenstein several years ago with my dad, in a special
Halloween showing at a Milwaukee theatre.  Al was there to introduce the
film, in a tri-cornered hat.  That night, it was also also paired with
Caligari, and was really an experience.  I have a souvenir program and
button from that night.
     Al also holds what I believe is the only existing copy of Douglas
Fairbanks Sr.'s portrayal as Robin Hood.  Clips from it were shown in
the promotional documentary on Robin Hood that was shown in connection
with the release of Kevin Costner's "Robin Hood, Prince of Thieves" on
network TV.  Al was credited for the clip.
     I hope that anyone who is interested in this piece of history will
take advantage of the opportunity.  It's about time that Al gets some
real recognition for his treasures.  I was shocked by the Oscar story
that Martin told.  Al deserves better than that, and I hope that he is
successful in the sale of his film.  I'm definitely picking up a copy.

Mark Higgins
Horicon, WI

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 01:18:54 -0400
From: "Mark Kinsler" <kinsler33@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  museum of radio and television

Well, it certainly sounds like the Museum of Radio and Television in NYC has
a long way to go before they have useful archives.  Sounds like the system
was set up on a low budget by a squabbling team of semi-professionals.

But this is the way museums are going, I'm afraid.  The group of people who
were fascinated by the fact that they could watch "The Sopranos" is
indicative of the problem.  Museums have been largely undercut by TV
documentaries.  Your average person has, or thinks he has, an overload of
information, or at least of facts.  He's seen too many zebras get eaten, too
many Civil War battles, too many scraps of the Dead Sea Scrolls.  He goes
into the museum because it's on the itinerary, but he doesn't want to work
to appreciate the stuff, and he looks for the familiar.

Museums, for their part, have decided that it's the Age of the Entrepreneur:
gotta make bucks, gotta run a tight ship, raise the prices at the snack bar
and the T-shirts, get 'em in and get 'em out.  Scholarship is fine if it
brings in grant money, but only big grant money.  Get a business CEO, pay
him a lot, and have him whip the old institution into proper corporate
shape.  Get rid of those deadwood "experts" on the staff.  Go, go, go.  Give
the customer what he wants.

Back when museums were funded through large, stable endowments, the
curatorial staff could work in a relatively low-budget but comparatively
stress-free environment, giving the patron what he should have rather than
what he wanted.  Thus you could get an education at a museum, learning
things that you _didn't_ know before as opposed to having your own tastes
and experiences celebrated.

But as it stands, the attitudes of increasingly detached, poorly-educated
customers and empire-building museum administrators are symbiotic, feeding
off of each other.  What we're starting to see is dumbed-down institutions
and patrons who visit once but never again.  A second visit to a modern
museum isn't much better than a TV re-run.  I doubt that the Museum of Radio
and Television is much different.

M Kinsler

whose alma mater, Ohio State, is trying desperately to gin up quickly-waning
interest in an expensive new museum they built.  It is devoted entirely to
Jack Nicklaus, the golfer.

512 E Mulberry St. Lancaster, Ohio USA 43130 740-687-6368
[removed]~mkinsler1

--------------------------------
End of [removed] Digest V2003 Issue #251
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