Subject: [removed] Digest V2003 #373
From: <[removed]@[removed]>
Date: 10/15/2003 5:49 PM

To: <[removed]@[removed];

    ------------------------------

                                The Old-Time Radio Digest!
                                  Volume 2003 : Issue 373
                             A Part of the [removed]!
                                     ISSN: 1533-9289

                                     Today's Topics:

      10-16 births/deaths                   [ Ron Sayles <bogusotr@[removed]; ]
      No Captain Midnight Premium           [ "Stephen A Kallis, Jr." <skallisjr@ ]
      Another take on Lum and Abner         [ Ehutchison@[removed] ]
      Re: "Farkin'"                         [ Elizabeth McLeod <lizmcl@[removed] ]
      Ciro's                                [ JimBourg@[removed] ]
      Re: Here's Morgan                     [ Dixonhayes@[removed] ]
      It's Ciro's, Jen                      [ "Michael Hayde" <mmeajv@[removed]; ]
      Re: OTR announcers in movie promos    [ Dixonhayes@[removed] ]
      Hits and Errors                       [ Jack & Cathy French <otrpiano@erols ]
      Zero's                                [ Ed Loyer <eloyer@[removed]; ]
      accents                               [ "Mark Kinsler" <kinsler33@[removed] ]
      HOLLYWOOD RESTAURANT SCENE            [ PURKASZ@[removed] ]
      Radios and Antennas                   [ "RBB" <oldradio@[removed]; ]
      re "hamburger sandwich"               [ Froggievilleus <froggievilleus@yaho ]
      comments re Digest 372                [ "B. J. Watkins" <kinseyfan@hotmail. ]
      Henry Morgan                          [ "David Howell" <DHowell@northampton ]
      Re: Zeroes?                           [ Steve Salaba <philmfan@[removed] ]
      Ciro's                                [ Kermyt Anderson <kermyta@[removed]; ]
      seeking Jerry Burling                 [ benohmart@[removed] ]
      Robert Arthur on radio                [ Rick Keating <pkeating89@[removed]; ]

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 09:29:18 -0400
    From: Ron Sayles <bogusotr@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  10-16 births/deaths

    October 16th births

    10-16-1900 - Lloyd Corrigan - San Francisco, CA - d. 11-7-1969
    actor: Judge Hunter "One Man"s Family"
    10-16-1921 - Linda Darnell - Dallas, TX - d. 4-10-1965
    actress: "Hollywood Premiere"; "So You Want to Lead a Band"
    10-16-1925 - Angela Lansbury - London, England
    actress: "NBC University Theatre"

    October 16th deaths

    07-31-1911 - George Liberace - Menasha, WI - d. 10-16-1983
    sideman: Orrin Tucker Band, Anson Weeks Band
    08-30-1907 - Shirley Booth - NYC - d. 10-16-1992
    actress: Miss Duffy "Duffy"s Tavern"; "Hogan"s Daughter"; "Strictly Business"
    10-18-1892 - Leo G. Carroll - Weedon Northants, England - d. 10-16-1972
    actor: Lux Radio Theatre
    12-14-1914 - Dan Dailey - NYC - d. 10-16-1978
    singer, actor: "King"s Men"; "Philip Morse Playhouse"

    Ron Sayles
    Milwaukee, Wisconsin

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 10:28:03 -0400
    From: "Stephen A Kallis, Jr." <skallisjr@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  No Captain Midnight Premium

    Dan Hughes reminisces,

>     I have faint memories of what I think was a Captain Midnight premium I
>     had when I was a kid, and I'd like you to verify that my memory isn't yet
>     totally shot.  This was from the TV show:  a pair of binoculars that
>     strapped to your head with an elastic band, so you could peruse the skies
>     for enemy aircraft without using your hands!  I remember how cool I
>     thought I was, wearing those riduculous binoculars as I swaggered up and
>     down the sidewalk.  Am I dreaming?

    I don't believe that he's dreaming, yet I don't believe it was a Captain
    Midnight TV premium.  The closest match I can make of this is a Space
    Patrol set of Space Binoculars, which performed this function.  It
    appears to have been an in-store premium.  It had a plastic
    shade-and-headband arrangement with the "binoculars" built in.  The photo
    of the one I've seen didn't show the elastic band, but it could have had
    one.

    FWIW, most "binoculars" are optically "opera glasses"; that is, two
    low-power Galilean telescopes attached together.  The Captain Midnight
    1947 Spy Scope radio premium was another Galilean.

    Stephen A. Kallis, Jr.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 10:28:19 -0400
    From: Ehutchison@[removed]
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Another take on Lum and Abner
    X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative
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    Irene recently asked about an expression from a 1938 Lum and Abner broadcast.
     I believe the term being used was "sparking."  Abner was advising Lum not to
    "start sparking" at some new woman, meaning he was not to start getting
    "romantical notions."

    I grew up in upstate NY and can recall visits to MS during the 50's when
    people here yet spoke in very colorful terms.  My elderly great aunts would
    say
    things like, "Oh, Lord a mercy, come here honey child and give me some
    sugar."
    The expressions and idioms even that late made it somewhat difficult for
    people from different parts of the country to understand each other.
    Nevertheless,
    the colorful language added great local flavor to various regions of the
    country and certainly made travel more of an adventure. Thanks, I suppose, to
    the
    fact that we all listen to Dan Rather and his ilk,  Americans have come to
    speak more alike.  The advent of a national media and its concomitant decline
    in
    regional speech variations is further proof that not all that we call
    [removed]

    Edward Hutchison
    Madison, MS

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    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 10:28:48 -0400
    From: Elizabeth McLeod <lizmcl@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Re: "Farkin'"

    On 10/15/03 9:45 AM [removed]@[removed] wrote:

>     Another expression used in Lum'n Abner is what sounds like 'farking'.
>     Does anyone know what that means?    Today, it seems to be used as a
>     substitute for that other 'f' word, but in that same transatlantic episode
>     Abner asks Lum about the woman he met on the ship and Lum says he's "farkin
>     (?) her on the side" which leads to Abner's 'hop the broomstick' comment.

    I think Lum is probably saying "sparkin'," with it sounding like
    something else because of poor audio. To "spark" is a common bit of rural
    dialect referring to the practice of pitching woo.

    "Lum and Abner" is a wonderful ground for exploring dialect -- and I've
    found it quite interesting to compare the language used in the program
    with the language used in "Amos 'n' Andy." Sociolinguists have documented
    a great deal of cross-pollination between "Black English" and "Southern
    English," with a lot of the characteristics we think of as
    characteristically Southern (the perfective "done", for example, or
    copula reduction -- "We goin'" instead of "We're goin'") actually having
    genuine African roots. An absolutely fascinating scholarly article
    examing the ties between these dialects is found in Chapter 5 of J. L.
    Dillards's 1972 book "Black English: Its History and Usage In The United
    States."

    Elizabeth

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 10:44:19 -0400
    From: JimBourg@[removed]
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Ciro's
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      I keep hearing about this Los Angeles restaurant while listening to
    Jack Benny, Burns and Allen, etc.  It seems to be rather famous (or
    infamous), but I can't find a website that mentions the place, no matter how
    I spell the name (Zero's, 00s, etc.) - is/was it real?  Can anyone point me
    to further information?
    Ciro's

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    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 10:47:13 -0400
    From: Dixonhayes@[removed]
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Re: Here's Morgan

>     Henry Morgan (comedian) seems to have had a difficult time in later life.
>     He appeared as a spokesman for an organization of divorced men who had been
>     treated unfairly in court.  Somewhat later, his picture was featured in a
>     small advertisement in Popular Science magazine for National Radio
>     Institute's appliance repair program.

    On the other hand, he did continue to make TV appearances into the '70s, on
    shows like the Wally Bruner/Larry Blyden version of "What's My Line?" and the
    70s version of "Match Game."  He also frequently appeared on talk shows like
    "The Tomorrow Show" and I think even "Late Night With David Letterman."  (I
    always thought Letterman's on-camera attitude made him the modern-day
    Morgan.)  And don't forget those three 1979 "Sears Radio Theatre" sketch
    comedies on CBS Radio, obviously not the edgiest thing you'll ever hear but
    entertaining nonetheless.

    Still, it's a shame Morgan never got his full due.  I always thought he was
    radio's most underrated comedian ever.

    Dixon

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 10:47:07 -0400
    From: "Michael Hayde" <mmeajv@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  It's Ciro's, Jen

    My buddy, Jennifer Pope wrote:

>          I keep hearing about this Los Angeles restaurant while listening to
>     Jack Benny, Burns and Allen, etc.   I can't find a website that mentions
>     the place, no matter how I spell the name (Zero's, 00s, etc.) - is/was it
>     real?

    It sure was - it's Ciro's, which was a nightclub on Sunset Boulevard.  When
    I lived in LA in the 1980's, Ciro's was long gone, but the building remained
    as The Comedy Store.  I presume that's still true.  There's a moment in a
    Martin & Lewis show from August 1949 - Sheldon Leonard is trying to convince
    the boys that they should buy their own nightclub because, "You guys are
    bringing in a lotta dough to that Cy-ro's [removed]"  This
    mis-pronounciation gets a huge laugh from the (Hollywood) studio audience,
    but must've gone over the heads of everybody else in America.

    Michael "Your ride to FOTR" Hayde

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 10:53:14 -0400
    From: Dixonhayes@[removed]
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Re: OTR announcers in movie promos

     The voice talent we used included

>     Fred Foy, Jackson Beck, Norman Rose, Dan Ingram, and one of our company's
>     execs, Don LaFontaine.  Off the top of my head I know that Fred and Don can
>     be heard on the spots for "You Only Live Twice."

    Some of the original trailers I've seen on DVD (and back when they aired
    them, AMC) appeared to feature the obvious voices of Ken Carpenter and Art
    Gilmore on many films from the 1950s.  Gilmore, especially, appears to pop up
    a lot narrating sci-fi movie previews.

    Dixon

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 10:54:30 -0400
    From: Jack & Cathy French <otrpiano@[removed];
    To: OTRBB <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Hits and Errors

    Thanks to Paul Thompson and Lisa Kohn for their updates on Sondra Gair,
    radio's first "Jane Sherlock." Last week I  finished my section on that
    series for my upcoming book, "Private Eyelashes; Radio's Lady
    Detectives" which will be out on Valentine's Day, 2004.  In answer to
    Lisa's inquiry about Gair's interest in journalism, it dates back to
    her college days. Gair, a native of Cicero, IL,  graduated from
    Northwestern University with a major in dramatic arts and a minor in
    journalism.  Forty years later, she told an interviewer that her intent
    was to pursue the first field she found work in, and that was Chicago
    radio. Of course, she  was delighted to combine her two choices of
    careers at WBEZ later in her life.

    Kudos to Martin Grams, Jr., and particularly Stewart Wright, for
    explaining the difficult and painful process of compiling OTR facts,
    and that the dedicated resolve to find the truth constitutes the
    driving force in the research and writing of not only Martin and
    Stewart, but also John Dunning, Jim Cox, etc.

    Many years ago, when Dunning was researching "On The Air", he phoned me
    out of the blue. I was delighted and flattered since, although I knew
    of him, I had no idea he had ever heard of me. He asked me to discuss
    my recent research on two series, Bobby Benson and Candy  Matson. He
    was gracious, thorough, fair-minded, and scrupulously determined to get
    factual data. He used much of what I provided him with, and later
    thanked me in the book's acknowledgments.

    Stewart is also "right on the button"  in highlighting two serious
    problems in OTR research. One is the imperfect memories of the OTR cast
    and crew members, and the second is the error that gets in print that
    is virtually impossible to erase from our  collective knowledge.

    Example 1)  Sondra Gair in the 70s, recalled being on Jack Armstrong as
    well as Sky King. While she was on the former, she was certainly not on
    Sky King. That Chicago series began in October 1946 after she went to
    the West Coast, and when she returned to the Windy City nine years
    later, it was no longer on the air.

    Example 2)  Years ago, relying on the painstaking research of Gordon E.
    Kelley, a renown Sherlockian, I copied his dates of the second run of
    "Meet Miss Sherlock", 9/28/47 to 10/26/47. Alas, a year later, when
    transmitting the dates to Jay Hickerson for his "Ultimate Guide", I
    missed a typo which changed the Sept date to 1946. Jim Cox, using these
    dates from Jay's book, inadvertently repeated the error in his "Radio
    Crime Fighters."

    My apologies to [removed]

    Jack French
    Editor: RADIO RECALL

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 10:54:38 -0400
    From: Ed Loyer <eloyer@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Zero's

    I think Jack is referring to Ciro's the famous nightclub on Sunset Blvd. in
    Hollywood. It was the gathering place for the "stars" in the 30's, 40's,
    and 50's. Ed Loyer

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 11:26:12 -0400
    From: "Mark Kinsler" <kinsler33@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  accents

>     As for Ohio. In 1956 when I started college in central Ohio there were a
>     couple of expressions I found amusing.    They called brown paper bags
>     'sacks' and asked 'Do you want off at the next corner' instead of 'Do you
>     want to get off'

>     -Irene

    Hasn't changed.  Yesterday the librarian asked us if we wanted a sack for
    our books.

    As for OTR and dialects, I suppose I was thinking of sitcoms and announcers
    as much as anything.  Radio people are, of course, voice actors, which means
    that the best can change their speech to sound like they're from utterly
    anywhere.

    The majority of my radio listening is programs like "When Radio Was," whose
    programs don't seem to go back earlier than about 1944 and are mostly from
    the '50's.  (I suppose this is because of the sound quality and social
    content of earlier shows.)

    Ms McLeod commented that the 'correct English' movement didn't hit radio
    until the '40's.  Thus the majority of OTR I have heard has little regional
    speech, including the most popular shows: Dragnet, Fibber McGee, Jack Benny,
    Henry Aldrich, Tales of the Texas Rangers (no accents???), One Man's Family
    and earlier soaps, X-1 and them, and the various Westerns (except for
    character actors.)  Even Matt Dillon must have come from Toledo or
    somewhere.  Chester, however, was from rural Missouri, at least in the TV
    version.

    Seems like the practice carried directly into television.  Except for
    suppressed New York and moderate New England accents, I can't think of any
    regionality showing up in relatively serious roles prior to "The Real
    McCoys."

    M Kinsler

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 12:12:11 -0400
    From: PURKASZ@[removed]
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  HOLLYWOOD RESTAURANT SCENE
    X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative
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            Jennifer writes of hearing the Benny program make reference to a
    restaurant she thinks sounds like Zeros.
         In fact it is/was the Sunset Blvd. eatery known as Ciro's
         I used to drive by it many times in the late 60s.  Then it turned into
    The Roxy I think.
         The Mogambo on Sunset, another famed hangout of the Hollywood set became
    the Comedy Store.
         Alas, it seems that by the time I got to Hollywood in 1969 many of the
    famed spots had become something else or were no longer there.
         The Brown Derby on Vine Street was still there but the original on
    Wilshire was closed though the huge Derby stood tattered and forlorn for many
    years.
         Musso & Franks is alive and well and as of last January still featured
    waiters that remembered me and an excellent NY steak from the wood burning
    fire
    by the counter.
         Hope this helps Jennifer and perhaps she will write me off line and let
    me in on her research regarding Ciro's.
                         <A
    HREF="[removed],+Michael+C.">Michael C. Gwynne</A>

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    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 16:28:46 -0400
    From: "RBB" <oldradio@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Radios and Antennas

    <<Regarding the recent posts on shortwave radios, AM reception and
    antennas>>>

    I received my C. Crane Company catalog today listing a good selection of
    multi-band, world band radios and reasonable prices for several Sangean
    AM/FM/SW models.

    There is a section on getting started listening to shortwave; some books on
    world band radio; a list of SW frequencies by country.  A variety of
    antennas for AM, FM, TV, SW (and a portable SW antenna I've not seen
    before.) are included and details on using all their products.
    [removed]

    (I have no association with or interest in the C. Crane company.)

    Russ Butler  oldradio@[removed]

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 16:28:58 -0400
    From: Froggievilleus <froggievilleus@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  re "hamburger sandwich"

    The movie that Dixon referred to that was MSTied was
    "I Accuse My Parents", which is available on VHS or
    DVD for the MST3K version.  I am not sure if the
    original version is available.

    I am a huge MSTie fan and know that particular episode
    very well.  It was the earliest film they did and the
    story revolves around a young high school guy named
    Jimmy (who looks in his early 30s) who ends up getting
    into trouble because his parents didn't pay enough
    attention to him.  If you get a chance to see the
    MST3K version, I say go for it.  It is hilarious.

    Oh, and I just looked it up.  The movie was originally
    released in 1944.

    Elizabeth S.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 16:30:24 -0400
    From: "B. J. Watkins" <kinseyfan@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  comments re Digest 372

    In the latest issue #372 I found several items which tug at me for a
    comment. (Any comments from Craig, who grew up just down the road a piece?)

    Irene Heinstein wrote:

>     As for Ohio. In 1956 when I started college in central Ohio there were a
>     couple of expressions I found amusing.    They called brown paper bags
>     'sacks' and asked 'Do you want off at the next corner' instead of 'Do you
>     want to get off'

    As for "brown paper bags" They were sacks when I lived in Ohio and are still
    sacks here in California. Is that really different elsewhere?

    And wanting "off" without "getting" off is just fine with me. How do you
    feel about "Let me off here."?

    I'd be surprised if "sacks" and "off" didn't appear quite often in radio
    dramas during the golden age (to put us back on topic).

    Then Jennifer Pope asked:

>     I keep hearing about this Los Angeles restaurant while listening to
>     Jack Benny, Burns and Allen, etc.  It seems to be rather famous (or
>     infamous), but I can't find a website that mentions the place, no matter
>     how I spell the name (Zero's, 00s, etc.) - is/was it real?

    It was Ciro's, on the Sunset Strip if I recall correctly.

    Al Girard pointed out:

>     You could care less?  How much less could you care?  Not trying to be
>     picky, but the correct term is couldn't care less.

    True, but "could care less" is used so often that soon it will be
    interchangeable like "Flammable" and "Inflammable", meaning the same thing.

    Just curious, how many of you grew up saying "futher" instead of "further"?
    I wonder if anyone ever said that in a radio drama?

    Barbara

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 16:30:33 -0400
    From: "David Howell" <DHowell@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Henry Morgan

    Henry Morgan was a panelist on the TV show "I've Got A Secret" from 1952
    to 1976 (according to one website), so he was at least working steadily
    in later life, even if he could not use his acerbic wit as he could on
    his radio show.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 16:31:12 -0400
    From: Steve Salaba <philmfan@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Re: Zeroes?

    At 9:45 AM -0400 10/15/03, Jennifer Pope asks:

>     but I can't find a website that mentions the place, no matter how
>     I spell the name (Zero's, 00s, etc.) - is/was it real?  Can anyone point me
>     to further information?

    I think the spelling is "Ciro's". I'm sure the rest of the gang here has
    more info.
    --
    Steve Salaba

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 16:56:26 -0400
    From: Kermyt Anderson <kermyta@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Ciro's

    In response to Jennifer Pope's inquiry: The restuarant
    was called Ciro's. The building still exists--it's the
    Comedy Store now--and is allegedly haunted. Check out
    [removed]

    Kermyt

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 16:58:57 -0400
    From: benohmart@[removed]
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  seeking Jerry Burling

    My friend, Paul Rapp, son of writer Phil Rapp, needs to get in touch with Jerry Burling of
    Sperdvac quickly, about some audio work he did for him. If someone here could get me
    Jerry's phone # privately, I'll pass it on to Paul. Thanks much.

    Ben Ohmart

    The Information Please book
    [removed]

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 17:50:00 -0400
    From: Rick Keating <pkeating89@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Robert Arthur on radio

    Does anyone know if Robert Arthur, co-creator of the
    Mysterious Traveller and writer for it and other
    shows, has ever been heard on the air on any radio
    program? I am the host of the Jones Salvage Yard
    message board,
    [removed]  a site
    dedicated to Arthur's excellent mystery series, Alfred
    Hitchcock and the Three Investigators, and some of us
    have wondered, given Arthur's work in radio, if he was
    ever heard on the air. A fellow poster to the Salvage
    Yard recently heard an episode of "Murder by Experts"
    in which Arthur's partner, David Kogan, accepted an
    award on behalf of himself, Arthur, and others who've
    worked on the program. So, that got us wondering
    again.

    It then occurred to me that someone here might know
    whether Robert Arthur was ever heard on a radio show,
    and if so, which one.

    Speaking of The Three Investigators, Arthur's story
    The Mystery of the Screaming Clock (he wrote nine
    stories in the series, which he also created, before
    his death in 1969) has some OTR-related thread running
    through the plot.

    Rick

    --------------------------------
    End of [removed] Digest V2003 Issue #373
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