From:	SMTP%"[removed]@[removed]" 19-NOV-1995 01:33[removed]
To:	otr@[removed]
CC:	
Subj:	[removed] Digest V95 #399

 
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	    [removed]   Volume 95 : Issue 399


Articles in this issue of [removed]:

	 Private Property Again
	 Mugs and stuff
	 PEPPER YOUNG REVIVED
	 Private Property Again
	 Charlie McCarthy
	 new member, something about me.
	 Tom Mix, R-P, etc.
	 club libraries

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Nov 1995 10:37:06 -0500
From: Kubelski@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
cc: elmf393@[removed], aa993@[removed]
Subject: Private Property Again
Message-ID: <951118103703_86054395@[removed]>

Chris Tumber, my trading partner from Ottawa who provided me with some great
radio, makes a mistake of rhetorical excess in his post from yesterday.

First of all, in a perfectly free society there would be no need for nuclear
weapons, so arguing about whether or not private property rights are
compatible with arms proliferation is irrelevant.  The time and expense of
owning and maintaining a nuclear weapon far outstrips any value it would
have, so in a perfect capitalist society, it would not have been produced.

The only entity that could possibly have use for weapons like that is
government, or someone fighting one.  A terrorist group that gets its hands
on a nuclear weapon proabably got it from a government.  If the government
would stop taking OUR money through taxes and using it build nuclear weapons,
there wouldn't be any.  And if the government is using my money to pay for a
CIA or nuclear weapons, then yes, I do object to paying any takes.

When collectivists are allowed to "set limits on private property," what they
are really doing is limiting some else's right to their own property.  When
you look at it from that perspective, it doesn's seem as reasonable.

And as long as you are allowed to use exxaggerated examples to attack private
property, here's one from my side to defend it.

Everyone in town gets together and decides the Town Hall needs a 52" tv
screen that anyone can come in and watch ball games on.  They know I own one
so they hold a ballot referendum and decide that I must donate my TV to the
town for the benefit of the greater good.  After all, what good is it doing
in my living room where only one-five people at a time will enjoy it?  Why
not put it in a place where everyone can use it?  Isn't that better for
everyone, and the only person losing something is you.  And you aren't losing
all that much because you can still go to the town hall and watch.

All very democratic and open, and still immoral.

By the way, speed limit laws are bullying. They exist to generate money for
the state, not to protect people from dangerous drivers.  Everyone speeds, so
the cops and government know they can make $X off the people by pulling over
a random selection and demanding money.  It's sort of like bullies in school
picking which kids to beat up for their lunch money, except its sanctioned by
the government, so I suppose Chris supports it.

Yes, landowners have an absolute right to build what they want on their land.
If you don't like your neighbors, move.  If you can't tolerate pornography,
catch the patrons committing an actual crime, like vandalism or theft or
something, and have them arrested for that.  Don't condemn the pornographer
just because you don't appreciate how he makes his living.  It isn't any of
your business.  Next to a high school is a perfect place to sell pornography
by the way.  That's where the highest concentration of people likely to need
it congregate.

I won't get into gun control except to say that any government that wants it
own representatives to have guns and its citizens not to have them isn't
interested in liberty, its interested in tyrranny.  Here's a funny idea, in
the [removed] the police have no legal obligation to protect you from crime (you
can't sue them for not performing their duties if you are robbed, for
example), but government has made it difficult if not impossible for many to
get weapons they need to protect themselves.  The result, urban chaos and
innocent dead people all over the place and no one to hold responsible.

There is no reason consumer advocacy laws have to be laws at all.  If people
really want the services provided by the governments of the [removed] and Canada
to certify product claims and assure food safety, then they could pay a
private company to perform the same function.  Food producers could contract
with a testing lab (which would be legally liable for mistakes in a way the
FDA will never be, by the way) certify their food, and build that cost into
the price.  If a food producer didn't want to pay for the certification, the
consumer would know there is an increased risk of contamination in exchange
for the lower price.  There is no reason to have a law against selling rotten
meat.  No one wants to buy it anyway.  Thats like having a law against
putting your tonge on the stove.

The fact that you have to imagine a person coming up with the cure for cancer
then just filing it away as an example of how people have to be compelled to
share what they have with others just points up the fact that there is no
REAL example of such a thing happening.

No one has ever created the cure for a deadly disease and not shared the cure
with his or her fellows.  That's because cures for deadly diseases have value
in society and you can always get something back in trade.

Priavte property is the engine that drives society.  It drives people to
create all art great and small.  Jack Benny would be great.  Tom Mix is
pretty small, but this is a philosophical discussion so we won't get into
that.  Funny how none of the countries that have collectivism as a operating
model invented the great breaktrhoughs of the 20thC.  It was all either North
Americans or foreigners working here under our system.

As for your argument that whoever bought cereal in the 40s now owns the
transcription disks for the Tom Mix programs, let's say I buy that argument.
 Which ceral buyers own them.  Does everyone who attests to buying cereal
during that period have a right to a free disk from RP?  How do you choose
which one?  Did you buy any cereal and therefore can you claim ownership?
 Who is this "we" consumer who owns all of that stuff?  If we all own it, how
do we all get it?  Does this apply to other corporate assets such as their
headquarters or the St. Louis Blues?  I'd buy their cat food for my cat if I
thought I could get some hockey tickets out of it.

It's sad that we've gotten to a point where some people can't even visualize
freedom and ownership as good things.  The right to own property and the
corralary right to protect it from the intrusions of others are the tounding
princples of this country, and probably yours too (again, I apologize for my
lack of knowledge of Canadian constitutional history).

This is already way too long for a digest post, but I imagine most of those
who are tired of the debate skipped it anyway.  

You outlined several "accepted limits" to private property in your post.  I
just wnated to point out that not all of us accept them.

BTW - we should trade some more tapes soon.  We  may not agree on the logical
limits of government, but we both have great taste in entertainment.

Yours,
Sean Dougherty
New Jersey Libertarian Party
kubelski@[removed]

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Nov 1995 12:19:38 -0500
From: JayHick@[removed]
To: otr@[removed]
Subject: Mugs and stuff
Message-ID: <951118121935_110088282@[removed]>

20th anniversary Friends of OTR mugs are still available for $4 plus $4 for
postage and handling (total of $8).  Supplement 3 of my Ultimate History is
available for $[removed] plus $[removed] for P & H (Total of $[removed]).  The entire book
is available for $56 plus $4 for P & H (Total of $60).  Some of the questions
asked on the Internet are answered in the book and also in some of the Logs I
have written over the years.  Information about the Ultimate History book is
also on Lou Genco's WWW Page ([removed]~[removed]).  To get
detailed info about it or Hello Again e-mail me your mailing address.  The
planning meeting for our next convention is a Sunday to be announced in
January or February at the Holiday Inn-North in Newark, NJ.  If you live
close enough and have some ideas and would like  to attend, let me know and I
will let you know when it is.  If you are a subscriber to Hello Again and
haven't e-mailed me your e-mail address so I can list it in HA, please do it.
 Jay Hickerson, Box 4321, Hamden, CT 06514 (203) 248-2887 FAX (203) 281-1322

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Nov 1995 17:12:05 -0500
From: celtic@[removed] (Stuart Joseph)
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: PEPPER YOUNG REVIVED
Message-Id: <[removed]@[removed]>

>Date: Fri, 17 Nov 1995 21:09:11 -0500 (EST)
>From: donmoore@[removed]

>     I remember listening to my grandmother's old Atwater-Kent for
>Pepper Young's Family, 
*****************************************************************
Does anyone remember the revival of Pepper Young's Family in the 60's? I
think it was on CBS. My recollection is that CBS tried to revive the show
and another I can't remember, or am I just suffering from 60's syndrome?
Stuart
(If you can remember the 60's you weren't there! <g>)

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Nov 1995 17:12:03 -0500
From: aa993@[removed] (Christopher L. Tumber)
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Private Property Again
Message-Id: <[removed]@[removed]>

Private Property Again
 
For anyone who cares, I've just written a rather lengthy email reply to 
Sean's last post (420+ lines including quotes and you don't know how much 
self-control it's taking not to post it here!). If you're interested email 
me and I'll be happy to add you to the CC: of the discussion. If not, well,
all you have to deal with is this short paragraph.
 
Carry on!

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Nov 1995 17:54:32 -0500
From: ir002126@[removed]
To: otr@[removed]
Subject: Charlie McCarthy
Message-Id: <[removed]@[removed]>

Today I was watching the movie "YOU CAN'T CHEAT AN HONEST MAN" which
featured [removed] Fields and Edgar Bergan & Charlie McCarthy.  I began to
wonder how Bergan did the Charlie McCarthy radio shows.  In the movie
he always had his right hand in Charlie's back manipulating the dummy.
 Sometimes he had his left hand under Charlie's legs while his right
hand worked Charlie's features.

My question is-- did Bergan use the dummy as part of his radio show. 
I have seen pictures and movies of radio broadcasts and the actors
always hold scripts and turn pages.  Obviously Bergan could not work
the dummy and manipulate the script during the broadcast.  Does anyone
know for sure how he did the broadcasts??

Please answer via this Digest as I can not receive email on this
system.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Nov 1995 18:34:52 -0600 (CST)
From: hollywd@[removed] (Gary W. Yantis)
To: otr@[removed]
Subject: new member, something about me.
Message-Id: <[removed]@[removed]>

Hello everyone,
I started tosend a message a minute ago and the time expired and I wasn't
sure if the message got sent. I use to watch a local show in San Antonio
called "So You want to Be a Cop!" A dj would tag along with a police officer
and report on the bar brawls on Saturday nights. Everyone enjoyed the show
and it probably had the highest ratings in [removed] I also listened to "Fibber
Magee and Molly", "Amos and Andy", "Lone Ranger", "Buster Brown", "The
Shadow", "The Green Hornet". And many others.

We also had the first tv in the block and everyone came over to watch the
test pattens.

I am publishing a newspaper called Direct to Hollywood that provides
information on Texas Film Industry. It goes to all the production companies
in California and around the country encouraging more filming in Texas. I
also have acommercial page on the internet "Direct to Hollywood Online" that
is updated weekly. The paer comes out every two months. I have 240+ links
around the world with most in entertainment industry. My url is
[removed]  Stop by for a visit.

Thanks

Gary  
gwy

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Nov 95 16:05:40 EST
From: charlie@[removed] (Charles Sloden)
To: otr@[removed]
Subject: Tom Mix, R-P, etc.
Message-ID: <6R6ReD1w165w@[removed]>

Bruce and Marty's discussion, exchange, whatever and the additional 
comments of others have provided some really entertaining and informative 
reading.  Apparently, otr enthusiasts are pretty passionate and vocal 
about their opinions.  Not quite as sedate as I thought this digest would 
be.  Thanks, guys.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Nov 95 21:19:06 EST
From: platecap@[removed] (Bob B)
To: otr@[removed]
Subject: club libraries
Message-Id: <[removed]@[removed]>

This is just a few quick comments about supposed 'elite' libraries.
If the Gassmans tell you no such thing exists in SPERDVAC, believe it.

Some clubs, however, may have collections of transcriptions or source
masters which have not yet been entirely transferred to tape and/or
dubbed to library copies.

NARA of course, has the famous SCANFAX collection.
SPERDVAC has had many disks and recordings donated to it by actors or
producers -- sometimes with the restriction that members who borrow
tapes agree not to trade or sell copies in order to fulfill the person
who donated the shows' request.  This is by no means, an elite library
since any member can access [removed] I think this is their ARCHIVE
library which contains only tapes copied direct from original
transcriptions (which implies the quality will be more consistant).

But getting back to the transcription collection, since all clubs are
VOLUNTEER organizations, it sometimes takes years for certain shows a
club has to be added to the lending library.

Disk dubbing is a VERY tedious and time consuming [removed] and for that
matter, making cassette masters is no picnic either when there is a lot
of them, since the tapes need to be copied in real time for best
results.

-Just my comments-  -Bob

Bob Burnham; BRC Productions; [removed] Box 2645; Livonia, MI 48151
voice (313) 277-3798;  fax (313) 277-3095; internet platecap@[removed]

------------------------------

    


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---- 
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