Subject: [removed] Digest V2002 #169
From: "OldRadio Mailing Lists" <[removed]@[removed];
Date: 5/8/2002 9:37 AM

To: <[removed]@[removed];

    ------------------------------

                                The Old-Time Radio Digest!
                                  Volume 2002 : Issue 169
                             A Part of the [removed]!
                                     ISSN: 1533-9289

                                     Today's Topics:

      George and Gracey                     [ "glen schroeder" <gschroeder10@char ]
      Poor Frank Fay                        [ Bob Fells <rfells@[removed]; ]
      this is where to get Gildersleeve bo  [ bloodbleeds@[removed] ]
      Article on the continuing appeal of   [ Rick Keating <pkeating89@[removed]; ]
      bitrates, radio shows, costs for sho  [ "" <cooldown3@[removed]; ]
      Re: Radio Spirits mp3's               [ "Rodney w bowcock jr." <rodney-self ]
      Re: nobody cares about OTR?           [ "Rodney w bowcock jr." <rodney-self ]
      Re: The Comedy of Obnoxiousness       [ "Irene Heinstein" <IreneTH@[removed] ]
      NBC Anniversary                       [ "Philip Adams" <padams33@[removed]; ]
      re: NBC/75 years comments             [ sfx-meow@[removed] (Ray Erlenborn) ]
      OTR Stars on TV                       [ "Mark E. Higgins" <paul_frees_fan@a ]
      Re: NBC's 75th Adversity              [ "Michael Hayde" <mmeajv@[removed]; ]
      Documentaries of Networks             [ Christopher Werner <cwerner@globalc ]
      #OldRadio IRC Chat this Thursday Nig  [ lois@[removed] ]
      Today in radio history                [ Joe Mackey <joemackey108@[removed] ]
      Re: OTR Quality                       [ Fred Berney <berney@[removed]; ]
      Re: Big Jon and Sparkie               [ Fred Berney <berney@[removed]; ]
      Pete Kelly's Blues                    [ "Nancy L. Hudson" <hudson@[removed]; ]
      Costumed casts                        [ Richard Pratz <[removed]@[removed]; ]

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 14:44:25 -0400
    From: "glen schroeder" <gschroeder10@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  George and Gracey

    Hi all.

    Last night, my daugter and I and a group of blind people that I belong to
    went to a small dinner theater called Apple Holler near Kenosha WI where we
    enjoyed a good meal and were treated to a musical comedy called George and
    Gracey A Love Story. It was good and they really must have done their
    homework, because the show had a lot of trivial things about the Burnses and
    they were right. I was glad my ten year old daughter enjoyed it a lot and I
    was afraid she would be [removed] hope this isn't off topic but I don't think
    so considering the content of the musical. Thanks.

    Love this list
    Glen Schroeder
    Madison WI

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 16:18:32 -0400
    From: Bob Fells <rfells@[removed];
    To: Old Time Radio <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Poor Frank Fay

    Unless I missed this in the current thread about Frank Fay, reference
    should be made to George Burns's comments on Mr. Fay in his book, All My
    Best Friends.  According to Mr. Burns, Frank Fay seemed to be his own
    worst enemy, alienating people who wanted to be his friend.  During the
    run of the play Harvey, Mr. Burns recalled that a group got together and
    gave a huge testimonial bash in Madison Square Garden called Friends of
    Frank Fay.  At the climax, Mr. Fay went to the podium and gave a speech
    denouncing many celebrities as Communists, naming Frank Sinatra among
    them. George Burns ended his account by saying that after that night,
    Fay was persona non grata in show business.

    While I can't vouch for the accuracy of George Burns's account, I recall
    seeing an early talkie called The Shows of Shows, produced by Warners in
    1929 with Frank Fay as the master of ceremonies.  Fay seemed likeable
    enough in the beginning of the film but towards the end a sort of
    overbearing haminess set in and I was left with the feeling that a
    little bit of Frank Fay went a long way.

    Bob Fells

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 16:18:41 -0400
    From: bloodbleeds@[removed]
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  this is where to get Gildersleeve book

    [removed]

    or $[removed] to

    Ben Ohmart
    P O Box 750
    Boalsburg, PA 16827

    Thanks.

    [removed] Very soon - the Bickersons Scripts book!

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 16:19:00 -0400
    From: Rick Keating <pkeating89@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Article on the continuing appeal of OTR

    Some of you who attended the Cincinnati convention
    already know this, but  for those who don't, I
    recently published an article on the continuing appeal
    of old-time radio. It ran in Zoom Magazine, the
    inflight magazine of Vanguard Airlines (vol. 5 #1).
    Check it out if you get a chance. I think you'll like
    it.

    Rick

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 18:10:39 -0400
    From: "" <cooldown3@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  bitrates, radio shows, costs for shows and
     how people enjoy things.

    There has been a lot of discussion about the quality of the radio programs
    we are blessed to be able to enjoy through the various firms which have
    collected and arranged to sell to us.  Without their work would there be the
    variety we enjoy today? Perhaps not.

    But I can still remember the sound from the old plastic set my parents had.
    Our radio was an inexpeniensive one I am sure. The smallish set had a
    speaker which could be covered by the palms of my small hands. I can
    remember it sounding a bit tinny sometimes, and how the show would fade in
    and out as the heaviside layer shifted at night.

    Lightning manifested itself if it was active anywhere nearby. In south texas
    in the summer evenings of the mid 40's, there was sheets of lightning which
    lit the night for us. A cool rain would settle the dust, blowing droplets
    through the screen. It gave that fresh smell to everything. For me it added
    to the excitement. I cannot honestly say that the sound quality of the shows
    available is a real issue for me.

    I also remember the scent of the tubes glowing in the dark. it added a
    feeling of tension, anticipation of that which was not yet known but would
    soon be revealed.

    Funny How different people place values on different areas of these
    wonderful shows.
    Patrick

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 18:54:32 -0400
    From: "Rodney w bowcock jr." <rodney-selfhelpbikeco@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Re: Radio Spirits mp3's

> >     I don't see how RSI (or anyone else) could charge $[removed] or $[removed]
> >     for a 30-hour, 60-show collection and still be able to pay licensing

    fees to

> >     Norman Corwin and the other rights holders. --Anthony Tollin***

    That may be the case, but when you're dealing with 1/30 of the cost of
    the raw materials, you'd think they'd be able to pass on more than a
    $5-$15 savings.  Of course, I'd never order it anyway, so my opinion is
    pretty invalid.

    rodney.

    Past Tense Productions
    Carrying Old Radio related films, and Hal Roach shorts, for $7 per tape.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 18:54:50 -0400
    From: "Rodney w bowcock jr." <rodney-selfhelpbikeco@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Re: nobody cares about OTR?

> >     To them and the public
> >     OTR is a dinosaur whose fossils are nice to look at
> >     (hear) once in awhile but don't make a big deal of it.
> >     They just don't care.

    While this may be true to a certain extent, I refuse to believe it's a
    matter of today's generation not caring about OTR, rather, I think the
    blame falls on the parents of today's young people who never told them
    about it.  I talk to young people all the time who enjoy OTR and are
    looking for more of it.  I've even had interesting discussions with other
    young people in *bars* about OTR.  It's happened quite a few times.  I
    guess this is why I can't help but feel a little stab when I hear list
    members talk about how today's youth have no taste and don't care about
    anything that's older than they are.  It's simply not true.

    rodney.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 19:47:23 -0400
    From: "Irene Heinstein" <IreneTH@[removed];
    To: "OTR" <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Re: The Comedy of Obnoxiousness

    Elizabeth mentioned Frank Fay.   He was Barbara Stanwyck's first husband and
    as her career took off his faded.   She invested a lot of money in a
    Broadway Revue in which he starred.   It flopped and so did their marriage.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 20:49:12 -0400
    From: "Philip Adams" <padams33@[removed];
    To: "otr digest" <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  NBC Anniversary

    It's always fascinating to read how OTR'ers view the "outside" world (all
    those who have no concept of what Radio used to be). Like so many here I
    also watched the recent NBC 75th Anniversary Special and also wished they
    had featured more on the early days of NBC Radio.
    However I live in the 'real world' so it didn't surprise me in the least
    that so little was actually touched on. Let's face it - as Jerry Seinfeld
    said early on this was just an opportunity for the television community to
    pat themselves on the back and tell themselves (and everyone else watching)
    how great they are. Since no stars of the golden days of radio are still
    alive to do any crowing it is no wonder they get forgotten.
    Had they aired a chronological history starting with the earliest days I
    imagine the "suits" at the network could just imagine millions of tv remotes
    clicking away as the show was just beginning when the first grainy black and
    white photographs begin appearing.
    As much as we love these old shows the majority of Americans probably have
    likely never even heard of Fibber Magee and Molly and as far as bringing up
    Amos and [removed], I suspect Mr. Bill Cosby wouldn't have even appeared
    on the show had they talked about them.
    That's just the facts (to paraphrase Joe Friday) as they exist. The only
    opinions that matter in TV are those of the young demographic (18-34, or
    there abouts) and each day I slip further and further away from that crowd.
    If we expect to ever see a real documentary on the history of NBC (or any of
    the networks) the last place we will see it will be on commercial
    television. Try PBS. Maybe someone like Ken Burns will get the notion to do
    a multi-parter on Old Radio. But short of that I wouldn't hold my breath.
    That having been said for all its short-comings (and there were [removed]
    won't bother repeating what others have already stated so well) it was fun
    seeing so many old TV stars again in one place. Thank God there wasn't any
    disasterous occurrence. It might have meant the end of "Must See TV".

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 20:50:09 -0400
    From: sfx-meow@[removed] (Ray Erlenborn)
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  re: NBC/75 years comments

    Hi gang! I was at CBS/TV City during '50 to '77 and I was anxious to see
    glimpses of NBC's Stars during that era.
    Is it just SOUR GRAPES on my part that while watching the NBCatastrophe
    I kept comparing the artists with CBS's Danny Kaye, Dinah Shore,
    Smother's Brothers, Spike Jones, George Goebel, Alan Young, Judy
    Garland, Gene Kelly, Red Skelton, Carol Burnett, Sonny and Cher,  plus
    many more. And let's not forget, "All in the Family" and the many other
    pretty funny situation comedies, all, who seemed to have had writers and
    production staffs that I felt came up with shows that even
    gave NBC's "Golden Girls" some pretty good competition.
    I guess I am a little predjudiced, but "Holy Cow", I wish the Forties,
    with Radio and Fifties, with Television,  would come back!...Ray

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 21:51:31 -0400
    From: "Mark E. Higgins" <paul_frees_fan@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  OTR Stars on TV

    Just a quickie - I don't think that anyone's mentioned yet that Bill
    Idelson, Rush on Vic and Sade, played the part of Sally Roger's
    boyfriend, Herman Glimpshire, as well as being the loudspeaker voice for
    a time on "Mash"

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 00:42:27 -0400
    From: "Michael Hayde" <mmeajv@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Re: NBC's 75th Adversity

    Elizabeth, once again you have gifted us with a write-up as entertaining as
    it was informative.  Thank you.

    Like you, I was not surprised at the shirking of radio, despite the good
    intentions of researchers.  The show was, after all, a typical Lorne
    Michaels production: sporadic moments of brilliance overwhelmed by excessive
    tastelessness.  Leave it to Michaels to choose, from a wealth of truly
    hilarious Martin and Lewis moments, two sad and  uninteresting clips from
    1954.

    What *really* disappoints me is the 75th Anniversary "timeline" at [removed]
    Again, very little that isn't television.  Apparently they've decided that
    1949 was a nothing year (no "milestones" attached to it), instead of the
    year in which "Dragnet" - the network's most successful series of the 1950's
    first half - debuted.  Meanwhile, the debuts of "Laugh-In," "Sanford and
    Son," and "The Facts of Life" are accounted for.

    Speaking of "Dragnet"...

>     A few things that did really bother me: The bit of derisive laughter from
>     the audience during the "Dragnet" clip was unnecessary.

    Yes, and this was an audience of so-called "professionals."  I think most of
    them grew up with "Dragnet" starring Dan Aykroyd and must have thought the
    original was also a comedy.  On the other hand, they could have picked a
    much better [removed] the 50th anniversary special used a scene between Jack
    Webb and Lee Marvin that was much more interesting.

>     Given the events of six months ago, the surrounding of 30 Rock with an
>     exploding barrage of fireworks at the end of the program seemed just a bit
>     tasteless --

    I felt VERY uneasy watching that, especially since these fireworks seemed to
    be bursting along the sides of the [removed] not above it.

>     Sid Caesar is still brilliant, with that fast patter-dialect
>     thing he did toward the end.

    Hear, hear!  Anybody else notice that this bit was funnier than ALL the
    clips from '90's sitcoms run earlier in the evening?

    Michael

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 00:43:06 -0400
    From: Christopher Werner <cwerner@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Documentaries of Networks

    After reading the expected digruntled comments of various impressions of
    the NBC 75th Anniversary program and the scant inclusion of OTR, I can't
    help but think of the sage comment "... You can't please all the people all
    the time."

    It is totally absurd to try to summarize history of any reasonable period
    in a few hours and still tell close to the 'whole' story. Even formal
    venues for documentaries like PBS's "An American Experience" or cable's
    History Channel spend hours on just one aspect of a subject. One should
    never let their expectations for such brief shows get too high. It's
    entertainment.

    What I think everyone hopes for is a BBC or Ken Burns documentary on OTR
    Comedy and then one on OTR Drama Anthologies, OTR Crime and Detective
    shows, OTR Childrens programs, OTR Westerns, OTR Science Fiction and
    Horror, OTR Quiz and General interest, OTR Soap Operas, OTR News, OTR
    Popular Music Programs, OTR Classical Concerts, and finally the history of
    the Broadcast equipment.

    Each series would be a five parter. Let's see 5x12 = 60 hours of
    programming. In the end we will still hear "but they forgot to mention
    [insert your favorite program here], what were they thinking?".

    Yes, yes, you're right, they should have a separate mini-series on Amos and
    Andy, OTR premiums, programs by Orson Wells/Elliot Lewis/Carlton E.
    Morse/Arch Obler/[insert your favorite writer/producer/director here] and
    Gunsmoke/Fibber/Jack Benny/LumNAbner/Yours Truly Johnny Dollar/Burns and
    Allen/OneMansFamily/[insert your favorite long-running series here].

    Perhaps then everyone will be happy and feel like their taste in
    programming has finally been fulfilled.

    Better get busy, I hear their starting to write the history of the Internet
    already.

    Chris

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 04:52:00 -0400
    From: lois@[removed]
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  #OldRadio IRC Chat this Thursday Night!

    A weekly [removed]

    For the best in OTR Chat, join IRC (Internet Relay Chat), StarLink-IRC
    Network, the channel name is #OldRadio.  We meet Thursdays at 8 PM Eastern
    and go on, and on! The oldest OTR Chat Channel, it has been in existence
    over five years, same time, same channel!

    Our numerous "regulars" include one of the busiest "golden years" actors in
    Hollywood; a sound man from the same era who worked many of the top
    Hollywood shows; a New York actor famed for his roles in "Let's Pretend" and
    "Archie Andrews;" owners of some of the best OTR sites on the Web;
    maintainer of the best-known OTR Digest (we all know who he is)..........

    and Me

    Lois Culver
    KWLK Longview Washington (Mutual) 1941-1944)
    KFI Los Angeles (NBC) 1944 - 1950
    and widow of actor Howard Culver

    (For more info, contact lois@[removed])

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 09:56:26 -0400
    From: Joe Mackey <joemackey108@[removed];
    To: otr-net <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Today in radio history

      From Those Were The Days --

    1959 - The final broadcast of One Man's Family was heard on NBC radio
    after being on the air 27 years. The show had completed 3,256 episodes
    since its beginning in 1932.

      Joe

    --
    Visit my home page:
    [removed]~[removed]

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 09:56:41 -0400
    From: Fred Berney <berney@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Re: OTR Quality

    At 08:17 PM 5/6/02 -0400, you wrote:

>     Am I making any sense here?  Or am I the only one who really cares?  The only
>     hope I have is that the person(s) who developed RealAudio will be forced to
>     listen to .ra files for eternity after they pass on.  Nuff [removed]

    You are not the only one who cares about quality. These have been my
    feelings for years. Digital sound should allow us to keep the quality of
    sound from degrading, but if misused, we could end up with much less
    quality than ever before.

    Fred
    For the best in Old Time Radio Shows [removed]

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 09:57:10 -0400
    From: Fred Berney <berney@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Re: Big Jon and Sparkie

    At the Cincinnati convention, a gentlemen came to my table and was telling
    me that he knew the writer of the No School Today show. That this man lived
    in Cincinnati. I had asked him if he would bring him to the convention the
    next day, so I could talk to him, but that never happened.

    As fate would have it, I never got the name of the gentlemen who came to my
    table nor the name of the writer.

    If either of them subscribes to this list and is reading this, please get
    in touch with me. I am preparing a talk for this Friday at our OTR Club
    meeting in the Washington, DC area (MWOTRC) and would like to include some
    of this information into it. Thanks.

    Fred
    [removed]

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 10:20:26 -0400
    From: "Nancy L. Hudson" <hudson@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Pete Kelly's Blues

    OK, it took me a while, but I'm now all caught up on reading my
    back-EMAILS on OTR Digest, after having been to OTR Cincy and having a
    great time, (as did everyone else, it seems.)

    Pete Kelly's Blues is one of my all-time favorite shows, which blended
    so many features in a radio program that seemed to have never been
    attempted before-two complete band numbers per show (by Jack Webb's
    hand-picked jazz band), his stiff-as-cardboard characterization of
    bandleader/cornetist Pete Kelly, the creation/production bite of Richard
    Breen (from "Pat Novak" and "Johnny Modero" days) with scripts by Jo
    Eisenger and James Moser.  The show, done after Webb had already been on
    the air with "Dragnet" for two years, was performed with some of the
    West Coast's best--Bill Conrad, Peggy Webber, Stacy Harris, Jack
    Kruschen, announcer George Fenneman, etc. AND the music of Pete Kelly's
    Big Seven, which, while perhaps sounding more like West Coast Dixieland,
    which it was, fitted the scene like a kid glove. While plots were a bit
    thin, the show was dripping with the atmosphere of a 1927 speakeasy in
    Kansas City, the mis-adventures of its bandleader (Webb) and the jams he
    could get himself into and out of. You could almost smell the stale
    smoke and cheap booze coming out of your [removed]

    The problem is that this atmospheric show is in rarified air.  It
    debuted July 4, 1951 and ran for only 13 weeks as a summer replacement
    for "The Halls of Ivy."  But I can only find 6 of the 13 episodes "in
    circulation," as they say. I asked a SPERDVAC fellow member, Barbara
    Watkins, if she would ask Herm Saunders if he knew where the rest of the
    shows may be hiding (Mr. Saunders was a recent guest at a club meeting,
    and for years sitteth at the right hand of Mr. Webb at Mark VII
    Productions producing "Adam 12" and "F Troop," among other TV shows, and
    was very involved  in Pete Kelly on radio, movies, and in the music) but
    alas, Mr. Saunders has no idea where they could be.

    So, I turn to this erstwhile group of broadcast radio aficionados to see
    if anyone can assist with information as to the whereabouts of any more
    "Pete Kelly's Blues" radio programs, if they survived, and specifically,
    what show is "Jake the Altar Boy"--the audition or perhaps the July 4
    show?  I have been fortunate to collect 6 or 7 LP's/CD's of Pete Kelly's
    Big Seven (including the soundtracks from the 1955 movie and 1959 TV
    show) with approximately the same gang of musicians, so I have plenty of
    music to satisfy me, but a new radio show or two would be great to hear.
    And any info would be most welcome.

    Russell Hudson

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 10:26:49 -0400
    From: Richard Pratz <[removed]@[removed];
    To: "OTR (Plain Text Only)" <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Costumed casts

    I believe the subject of costumed casts has been touched upon several times
    but not (at least to my recollection) in any detail. Thomas DeLong mentions
    in his 1996 "Radio Stars" book ([removed]) that the "Gay Nineties Revue"
    (1940-44) was "one of the very few shows with a costumed cast." Aside from
    Fran Allison dressing up as Aunt Fanny for "Don McNeill's Breakfast Club"
    and our friend Hal Stone donning his Jughead beanie, were there other
    programs in which the entire cast would get into character by wearing
    costumes to cater to studio audiences?  And maybe those on this Digest who
    acted in front of mikes can tell us whether the addition of costumes
    actually helped remaining in character. Inotherwords, did "dress" play a
    role in OTR?

    Rich

    --------------------------------
    End of [removed] Digest V2002 Issue #169
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