Subject: [removed] Digest V2003 #164
From: "OldRadio Mailing Lists" <[removed]@[removed];
Date: 4/19/2003 12:26 PM

To: <[removed]@[removed];

    ------------------------------

                                The Old-Time Radio Digest!
                                  Volume 2003 : Issue 164
                             A Part of the [removed]!
                                     ISSN: 1533-9289

                                     Today's Topics:

      Re: Cincinnati Convention             [ Tedshumaker@[removed] ]
      Press Release on-line                 [ "Martin Grams, Jr." <mmargrajr@hotm ]
      Calling All Western Fans              [ lynn wagar <philcolynn@[removed]; ]
      25 Lone Ranger ETs for $25            [ "joe@[removed]" <sergei01@earthli ]
      "sharing" and other topics.           [ gad4@[removed] ]
      Gay (?) Characters on Radio           [ "david rogers" <david_rogers@hotmai ]
      Re: Blackface                         [ GEORGE WAGNER <gwagneroldtimeradio@ ]
      Re: Gay Characters on the Radio       [ GEORGE WAGNER <gwagneroldtimeradio@ ]
      Today in OTR History                  [ Joe Mackey <joemackey108@[removed] ]
      Hummerts                              [ Phil Harris <ozradio1@[removed]; ]
      GI Jive                               [ "Harry R. Keller" <hrkeller@earthli ]
      Re: Free OTR                          [ littlejc2@[removed] ]
      Digitech thanks                       [ "Nemesis@[removed]" <nemesis@[removed] ]
      Filter mikes                          [ hal stone <dualxtwo@[removed]; ]
      Dastardly dis's                       [ hal stone <dualxtwo@[removed]; ]

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 14:09:04 -0400
    From: Tedshumaker@[removed]
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Re: Cincinnati Convention

    Maybe they thought attendence was down because we had so much LARGER ROOMS
    for the dealers and the recreations. Wasn't that GREAT. So was the air
    conditioning.

    Ted

    [ADMINISTRIVIA: A little _too_ good; over by the door where I set up my video
    camers, I was directly underneath a vent. It got pretty chilly under there
    when it was [removed]  ;)   --cfs3]

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 14:10:17 -0400
    From: "Martin Grams, Jr." <mmargrajr@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Press Release on-line

    Pasting a press release dated a couple weeks ago:

    Wake up, America! The biography is almost here!

    INFORMATION PLEASE, the popular radio quiz program that played experts for
    fall guys, was capital, dependable, adult radio fun for more than a decade
    (1938 - 1952). The fast-cracking experts - John Kieran, omniscient sports
    columnist for the New York Times; Franklin Pierce Adams, New York Post
    columnist; Oscar Levant, composer, pianist, gag-stacked Broadwayfarer - were
    acknowledged by listeners as the most knowing of know-it-alls. Master of
    Ceremonies Clifton Fadiman was famous for beating the experts to the pun
    while he picked the questions submitted each week by listeners. Information
    Please spawned a short-lived series of film shorts (1940-1943), a summer-run
    television program (1952), at least two card games, and the long-running
    Information Please Almanac.

    Bearmanor Media is proud to announce an up-and-coming publication scheduled
    for a tentative October 2003 release, documenting the history and antics
    behind the radio program, INFORMATION PLEASE. Assigned to the task - under
    an exclusive contract - is the academically-acclaimed researcher/author
    Martin Grams, Jr.

    Martin Grams, Jr. is the author and co-author of numerous books about
    Old-Time Radio and Old-Time Television, including The Have Gun - Will Travel
    Companion (2000), The History of the Cavalcade of America (1999), The Alfred
    Hitchcock Presents Companion (2001), Radio Drama: American Programs (2000),
    Invitation to Learning (2002), Suspense: Twenty Years of Thrills and Chills
    (1998), The Sound of Detection: Ellery Queen's Adventures in Radio (2002),
    Inner Sanctum Mysteries: Behind the Creaking Door (2003), The CBS Radio
    Mystery Theater: An Episode Guide and Handbook (1999), and more magazine
    articles than could possibly be counted.

    To the average fan of Old-Time Radio, Mr. Grams is no stranger and his many
    of his books come to mind at the sound of his name. Mr. Grams has already
    gained access to the private collections of Dan Golenpaul, the creator of
    the INFORMATION PLEASE series, including other definitive sources that will
    provide superb historical documentation.

    Bearmanor Media is responsible for the popular It's That Time Again, The
    Great Gildersleeve biography, and the Bickersons Script Book. To pre-order
    your copy of the INFORMATION PLEASE book and other Bearmanor Media
    publications, as well as learn about the new up-coming releases, check out
    [removed].

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 14:10:31 -0400
    From: lynn wagar <philcolynn@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Calling All Western Fans

    Working in a library I get to see the new books we
    buy. One caught my eye.  If you enjoy Westerns/Cowboy
    singers, check out this book.

    Singing In The Saddle-The History Of The Singing
    Cowboys.  By Douglas Gree.

    Lot and lots of otr info and references!!

    Just thought you might like to know??

    Lynn Wagar

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 14:10:54 -0400
    From: "joe@[removed]" <sergei01@[removed];
    To: "OTR List" <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  25 Lone Ranger ETs for $25

    My gosh, Ed, I'm so green with envy, I can't even see straight.

    Joe Salerno
    [removed]

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 14:11:00 -0400
    From: gad4@[removed]
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  "sharing" and other topics.

    Well, this has been a very busy week for the digest. We start off with the
    old "2 MP3 or not 2 MP3" conversation. I think we really handled that topic
    better than in the past. However that wasn't enough for poor Charlie.  He
    now has the "privilege" of moderating the "2 share or not 2 share" and "2
    hoard and not 2 hoard". I'm sure he needs us to send him an aspirin bottle
    and I appreciate him putting up with us. :)

    I originally wrote a long letter to get a lot of pet peeves out. I waited
    before mailing, and I'm kind of glad I did. I have many good friends on both
    sides of these conversations and in no way do I want to offend anyone.

    There are people on both sides that have really good intentions. Some who
    believe selling is good to get more out. There are some who are against
    selling because they want to save others money. There are also people on
    both sides who have their opinion for selfish reasons. I don't want to list
    them here, but they're basically concerned about either some one getting
    shows for nothing, or someone making money off of shows. I believe most of
    us, deep down, love this hobby and really want to help it.

    I have an opinion probably in the middle on these topics. I have been a
    collectible dealer since 1979 (not otr). Because of that, many people see me
    as pro-dealer. But I have also been a collector of collectibles since the
    early 70s. The reason I got into collectibles is because I like it. I enjoy
    watching old TV and movies and listening to old radio shows. I love the
    memorabilia attached also. And from a financial point of view, I think there
    is a LOT of other ways to make more money than can be made in this hobby if
    the same effort is put in.

    I'm listening to what Ted says. I'm hearing Laura's concerns. And I
    understand Ed also.  I hear where Ed Carr comes from when he says his
    collection is his and no one has a right to tell him to share it. I can't
    argue with Ed. His collection is his. When people tell me my collection was
    given to me, with the greatest respect, I have to disagree also. I primarily
    collect mp3s, but I have spent several years looking for shows, looking
    through lists, trading, downloading, and copying cds and, yes, even encoding
    my shows and sharing them. My time too has a value and I think that needs to
    be respected. I believe ALL of us put time into our collection to make it
    what it is.

    On the other side of the coin, I do have to give credit where credit is due.
    I would probably have squat if it weren't for the nice people out there.
    People who have taken the time to allow others to copy their shows or trade
    with me. These people have allowed me to build a collection off of their
    work. They have traded with me. They have lent me cds. They have posted
    shows in newsgroups.  They have supported trading groups. And I even
    appreciate dealers who have put stuff up for sale. And this comes not just
    from the mp3 world but also from the tape world.  If it weren't for the
    people out there (dealers and collectors included) who have got the shows
    out in circulation, very few of us would have much.

    If I may take your time, Id like to ask everyone to look back to when they
    started. When they first fell in love with otr.  I would like to think that
    all of us met different kinds of people. We met people who were selfish, who
    wanted to brag about all that they had but wouldn't let us have anything. We
    met dealers who might have sold material. But I hope most of met fellow
    collectors, who supported one another. Who helped each other get more shows
    and be friends.

    Tapes are expensive. I'm sure we could never ask people to give us the
    physical medium that the shows were on. The same thing I don't think anyone
    wants from anyone. The same thing is true of cds. No one can ask anyone to
    give physical cds to anyone.  On the other side of the coin, I hope we met
    people who were willing to trade with us, or lend us shows. Examples are the
    fine people who have started collectors clubs. When I look back at my
    collecting, the people who have been good to me I appreciate the most.
    Those are the people I'd like to be like.

    Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying I want to be leaching source #1. Nor do I
    think anyone should be treated that way. But on the other side of the coin,
    I believe helping someone who will really appreciate my help and be a friend
    in return is worth more than any otr show that I could get. Even if the
    person is a dealer who will be making money and I'm able to help him survive.

    This reminds me of a little story that was told me. There used to be a comic
    book show promoter that went to a collectible show handing out flyers. The
    collectible show promoter graciously allowed the man to promote his comic
    show at the show. The next month, the collectible show promoter went to the
    comic book show to hand out his flyers. The comic promoter said, "no". "But
    you handed out your flyers at my show?" he replied. The comic promoter said,
    "That was your decision".  I wasn't there to verify the story, but in the
    story, how do we think the comic promoter treated the other guy? Yet
    hopefully none of us are unintentionally like that.  How many groups and
    collectors, who are taking a stand against dealers, are in reality sharing
    copies made off of tapes that they took from dealers? How many collectors
    with the couple of shows that they're hoarding have added numerous shows to
    their collection by the open sharing of others or the open selling of
    dealers. How many dealers with the handful of shows they're hoarding are
    selling tapes in their catalog released to them by other collectors, dealers
    and groups. How many are taking mp3s that others have encoded yet refusing
    to give back a little bit in a tiny way.

    One thing I've learned is that no matter how much I've given, its impossible
    to compare to the amount of shows that I've gotten from others. Even if it's
    a trade. When you think about it, look at your collections. How many of them
    actually came from your original transcription disks? Most of them are there
    because someone else found the disks, someone else made the tapes, and (if
    you're an mp3 person) someone else encoded it.

    Without criticizing other's decisions, I want to just say that I want to be
    like the nice guys. I'm very thankful to those who have shared with me
    unconditionally. While there are still shows that I may want, there is VERY
    little that I feel the need to run through hoops for. Through the kindness
    of many I have more than enough to enjoy for the rest of my life, and no
    show has control over me where I have to promise numerous conditions to get
    it. Eventually, everything will get out, but regardless, some will be the
    heroes and some will be the villains. And to me the honor of helping others
    is more important than any show that I could add to my collection.

    I'm thinking back to the late 80s when I first attended the FOTR convention.
    People would go up to me then and say, "how nice a young person is
    interested in us" (that's when I was young (grin)).  Well, thanks to the
    Internet, we've gotten a lot of young people into this. In the early 70s,
    otr was only about 10 years old. Now, many of the people who are old enough
    to remember it are retirement age.  What we decide actually keeps the shows
    alive and vibrant to future generations. As even I'm feeling old, I hope
    pass the torch successfully to the next generation. Hopefully OTR does not
    die out with us.  Not just the shows in a hostile relationship, but
    including the love and caring that we put into it.  Hopefully, we set the
    example so that the OTR hobby enjoys peace and unity in the future. Not a
    "separate but equal" attitude but one where we all can support one another.

    Does anyone have to give anyone anything? No. But Id like to simply say
    "thank you" to those who have shared unconditionally and let them know
    they're appreciated.  There's a lot of good people in this hobby and I'm
    honored to know them.   And I hope all people on all sides respect one
    another and help one another and try to see where the other is coming from
    so they can treat each other, as they would like to be treated and bring the
    best out of each [removed]

    Thanks for allowing me to talk.

    Sincerely,
    George

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 14:11:23 -0400
    From: "david rogers" <david_rogers@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Gay (?) Characters on Radio

    I made a joke about this before but nobody picked up on it. The Julian and
    Sandy characters (played by Kenneth Willams and Hugh Padock) from "Round the
    Horne" were more than a little questionable with regards to their sexuality.
    I do not know where gay ends and effeminate begins. However, you may also
    want to consider a character played by Kenneth Williams in Hancock's Half
    Hour. Also on the effeminate side but I do not think is neccesarily gay is
    the "Bluebottle" character from The Goons. This last one is very debatable
    and I will stand corrected on how other people view the character. Whatever
    Bluebottle's he was a great comic character.
    In all of the above examples the characters are comic characters, played for
    laughs. In fact Julian and Sandy are two of my favourite radio characters
    who still make me laugh out loud after listening to them for many years.

    Love as always, David Rogers

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 14:12:17 -0400
    From: GEORGE WAGNER <gwagneroldtimeradio@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Re: Blackface

         Elizabeth mentioned that corked-up minstrel
    shows were performed in American high schools as
    late as 1976, although they must have been an
    extreme rarity by that time.

         The very first burnt-cork roles I ever saw
    live on stage were in a Spring, 1956, production
    of YOU CAN'T TAKE IT WITH YOU as performed by my
    lily-white high school's dramatics club. It's
    really the only way to enact this classic comedy
    with an all-white cast (without seriously
    re-writing the play), but even then there were a
    few muted voices of protest within the community.
    (The make-up was quite convincing and even
    respectful.)

         Burnt-cork was quite common during the first
    four or five years of network television. Here in
    Cincinnati, it was common on local television as
    well - with many of those local productions being
    fed out along the Dumont and early ABC wires.

         I remember a routine that John Arthur (he of
    radio's NO SCHOOL TODAY) did on an early WKRC-TV
    slot. He'd darken one side of his face only, then
    use two cameras in order to carry on a
    White-Black comedy dialogue with himself (in
    profile, obviously).

         It was about 1953 (I was 11 or 12) when the
    kibosh came down on all of this. It all stopped
    cold and suddenly, and after that I never saw TV
    blackface again, other than in old movies and
    historical reprises.

         Sincerely,

         George Wagner
         GWAGNEROLDTIMERADIO@[removed]

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 14:12:45 -0400
    From: GEORGE WAGNER <gwagneroldtimeradio@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Re: Gay Characters on the Radio

         I think that many of us may have a tendency
    to confuse "gay" speech-pattterns with
    traditional or even stereotyped "Thespian," the
    stage-actors' patois which has evolved down the
    centuries.

         The classic example of the latter is
    Vitamine Flinthart of Dick Tracy fame.
    Flinthart's speech is an exaggeration, but not by
    all that much.

         The first time I ever heard the "natural"
    voice of that great actor Barton Yarborough, in
    candid recordings made in 1939, it struck me as
    "subdued Flinthart," or rather the type of
    actor's voice that Chester Gould parodied into
    Flintheart.

         Sincerely,

         George Wagner
         GWAGNEROLDTIMERADIO@[removed]

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 14:13:07 -0400
    From: Joe Mackey <joemackey108@[removed];
    To: otr-net <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Today in OTR History

       From Those Were The Days --

      1924 - The Chicago Barn Dance began airing on WLS.

       Joe

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 14:13:15 -0400
    From: Phil Harris <ozradio1@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Hummerts

    Does anyone know if a biography has been written about
    Anne and Frank Hummert? I have not been able to find
    any work devoted specifically to these radio giants.
    If one does not exist, is someone planning on writing
    one?
    Thanks for any leads,
    Ryan
    Ozradio

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 14:13:22 -0400
    From: "Harry R. Keller" <hrkeller@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  GI Jive

    I recently bought an MP3 disc containing episodes of GI Jive.

    Anyone have any info on "GI Jill?" Who she was, what became of her? She has
    a really terrific voice and had a great way of talking to the troops.

    BTW a friend of mine who worked for AFRS in Korea in the early 50s was in
    my office the other day and I popped the disc in the computer and he named
    that show in about three bars of the theme song.

    Bob Keller
    Waukesha, Wisc.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 14:13:35 -0400
    From: littlejc2@[removed]
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Re: Free OTR

    Regarding Mark Stratton's posting of 17 Apr 2003:

    In the vernacular: "You Go, Mark."

    Chester Littlejohn

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 14:13:41 -0400
    From: "Nemesis@[removed]" <nemesis@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Digitech thanks

    To all of you who have sent me MP3 player information, thanks!

    I think I've found the root problem.  It's spelled MediaBay.  I subscribed
    to their MP3 download program last year and stopped when I'd gotten the
    shows I wanted.

    Each download came with a license.  The files played fine on my computer til
    now.  Now I get a "you need a license" message.  When I try, I'm denied.  I
    PAID for those files and can't use them.  Have contacted MediaBay and will
    wait til next week for their answer before getting really mad.
    Linda T.
    Preparation = Survival
    Learn how at [removed]

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 14:14:10 -0400
    From: hal stone <dualxtwo@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Filter mikes

    Joe Salerno asked;

>     how was the Shadow's voice acoustically
>     isolated from other mics (assuming multi-micing, which has not been shown in
>     photos generally) so that it would not bleed into other channels and leak
>     over the air un-filtered? Was he behind a gobo or in a booth or did he walk
>     into an adjacent room?

    Hi Joe. I've been out of town for 11 days, and just catching up on past OTR
    digests, so I'm not sure if your question was answered.

    Undoubtedly, various filter microphone technique were used in the very early
    days. I read someplace that in those early years, CBS used a narrow hallway
    adjacent to the studio to isolate the sound.

    But my earliest recollections at NBC (from 1940 on) was that we always used
    filter booths that were wheeled into studios whenever needed. They ranged in
    size from one that was not much larger than a phone booth, to the larger
    model that could comfortable hold 4 people. They were totally soundproof,
    with a thick pane window so the performer could see the director in the
    control room.

    We never used an adjacent mic. The only time I've seen that done has been at
    OTR recreations, since booths are not readily available. As a matter of
    fact, at the recent Cincy Convention, the audio control panel was not
    capable of creating the filter effect, so the performers talked into plastic
    cups held in front of their mouths and achieved a muffled "tinny" filter
    sound that way.

    regards

    Hal(Harlan)Stone
    Jughead

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 14:14:36 -0400
    From: hal stone <dualxtwo@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Dastardly dis's

    Laura leff couldn't leave well enough alone. She [removed]

>     Rick Keating wrote:

>     (Don't deny it, Jughead. I know you're the one responsible
>     for this morning's blizzard. I don't know how, but I know it was you.))

>     I know how you feel, Rick.  When I jetted back from FOTR and went to my car,
>     I found a substantial bird calling card on the roof.  I knew it had to have
>     been due to Hal Stone's method acting.

>     (Apolgies to those not at FOTR who won't get the reference.)

    Ok Laura. That did it. I was about to give you the autographed picture from
    Jack, showing me sitting on his lap, but your out of luck now.
    Quoth the Raven nevermore!

    Totally innocent Hal(Harlan)Stone
    "Johnny Dollar" 2003 :)

    --------------------------------
    End of [removed] Digest V2003 Issue #164
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