Subject: [removed] Digest V2003 #242
From: "OldRadio Mailing Lists" <[removed]@[removed];
Date: 6/20/2003 12:36 PM

To: <[removed]@[removed];

    ------------------------------

                                The Old-Time Radio Digest!
                                  Volume 2003 : Issue 242
                             A Part of the [removed]!
                                     ISSN: 1533-9289

                                     Today's Topics:

      Little Men                            [ Wich2@[removed] ]
      Why two transcriptions?               [ Vntager8io@[removed] ]
      OTR Films                             [ "Stephen A Kallis, Jr." <skallisjr@ ]
      Re:Seven Nights a Week                [ Steve Gibbs <stevegibbs@[removed]; ]
      Re: Scarlet Queen Like TV Series      [ Shenbarger@[removed] ]
      OTR ET's                              [ "Read G. Burgan" <rgb@[removed] ]
      Re: Martin Gabel and Arlene Francis   [ "Mary Anne Morel" <morel@planetmail ]
      Chet Atkins birthplace                [ "Donald & Kathleen Dean" <dxk@ezlin ]
      For Penne Yingaling                   [ "Lois Culver" <lois@[removed]; ]
      Re: Edgar Bergen                      [ Roo61@[removed] (Randy Watts) ]
      repackageing                          [ "Walden Hughes" <hughes1@[removed]; ]
      Voyage of the Scarlet Enterprise?     [ "Alain Altounian" <[removed]@[removed] ]
      Monster Bash Inner Sanctum            [ "Martin Grams, Jr." <mmargrajr@hotm ]
      Edgar Bergen                          [ "Martin Grams, Jr." <mmargrajr@hotm ]
      Re: popularity of Bergan              [ rodney-selfhelpbikeco@[removed] ]
      RE: Partial "Suspense" shows          [ Kermyt Anderson <kermyta@[removed]; ]
      XM Radio update                       [ John Francis MacEachern <johnfmac@a ]
      Car radios of old                     [ John Francis MacEachern <johnfmac@a ]
      Who played Ed?                        [ JackBenny@[removed] ]

    ------------------------------

    Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 22:07:27 -0400
    From: Wich2@[removed]
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Little Men

    Folks-
    I came across a question lately, and thought you'd be the go-to guys for the
    answer: I was looking into Richard Matheson's book THE SHRINKING MAN, basis
    of the 50's film THE [removed], and an old memory came bubbling up.
    I recall hearing a half-hour OTR show years ago, that was simpler but
    similar. In fact, I seem to remember some folks conjecturing that Matheson
    was influenced by it. But I can't seem to locate it.
    If memory serves, it wasn't from one of my favorites, SUSPENSE or ESCAPE. It
    may have been from the next tier: LIGHTS OUT, or THE WHISTLER, but my hunch
    is that it was from a C-level show: WITCH'S TALE, WEIRD CIRCLE, etc. Almost
    certainly not QUIET, PLEASE - I usually remember Ernest Chappel.
    Does this ring a bell?
    Hope to hear from you soon.
    All the best,
    Craig Wichman
    [removed] Gordon Payton, are you out there? If he, or one who knows him, is,
    please contact me.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 22:08:47 -0400
    From: Vntager8io@[removed]
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Why two transcriptions?

    Martin Grams, Jr. asks:

    << Now this has always puzzled me - and I am sure there is some logic to it,
    but why were many programs recorded on two separate transcription discs ? >>

    Just as you suggested, 30-minute shows were usually recorded on two discs to
    facilitate a smooth transfer from one side to the other both in recording and
    playback. Since a 16" transcription disc at 33 1/3 rpm holds approx. 15-20
    minutes per side using "standard grooves" (not microgrooves), more than one
    side
    is required for recording a program longer than 15 minutes. Most radio
    stations had at least two record/playback transcription machines. Usually on
    transcription discs of OTR programs, the sound at the end side one cuts off
    abruptly
    and the beginning of side two starts just as abruptly, as if someone threw a
    switch to send the outgoing signal to the transcription cutters instantly from
    one to the other. This would require great skill to piece together again as
    the
    program was rebroadcast. For some transcriptions, however, I've seen discs
    where about a minute or two of the sound at the end of a transcription disc
    side
    duplicates the material at the beginning of the next side, indicating that
    for a while, both discs were recording the same material simultaneously. This
    ensures an even smoother transfer from one disc to the other when playing back
    on-the-air; for a show with a studio audience, it would be easy to get the
    turntables going in sync and crossfade from one disc to the other during
    applause.

    Transcriptions could be recorded in two ways: outside-in or inside-out
    (simply put, does to groove start at the disc edge and spiral towards the
    center of
    the disc, or does it start at the center of the disc and spiral out?). Since
    sound quality is generally worse towards the center of the disc, many
    engineers
    would alternate between outside-in and inside-out cutting on disc sides to
    avoid a noticeable change in quality ([removed], if side one were recorded
    outside-in, side two would be inside-out so that when the change was made
    from side one
    to side two, the audio quality of the end of side one would match that of the
    start of side two).

    At the same time, hour-long shows like Lux Radio Theatre are often only on
    two discs, but the sides are paired like this: 1&3 and 2&4, the idea being
    that
    after the initial change from disc one to disc two, the engineer has fifteen
    minutes to flip the first disc over and reset the cutting head. Then after
    side
    two is cut on the second disc, he changes to side three on the back of the
    first disc while flipping the second disc to record side four. Make any sense?
    (It's easier to show something like this rather than tell about [removed])

    Hope this helps!
    Bryan Wright

    ------------------------------

    Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 22:22:07 -0400
    From: "Stephen A Kallis, Jr." <skallisjr@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  OTR Films

    Walt Baker, speaking of contemporary films, notes,

>     SOMEone said that the modern audiences enjoyed the recent movies of The
>     Phantom and The Shadow.  If that were so, why were they complete flops.
>     Both were seen for about two weeks and then faded into obscurity.  I
>     think - that was because the distributors did not back them with enough
>     marketing and (in the case of The Shadow) the quality was lousy.

    In the case of The Shadow, I suspect part of the problem was that the
    introduction of the film was adapted from a comic-book origin addition to
    the basic Shadow story, and it formed the basis for the film.  The film
    attempted the difficult task of trying to merge ("synthesize," in the
    Hegelian sense) the pulp and OTR aspects of The Shadow.  My recently
    departed mother saw the show with me in a theater and swore that the
    decor and feel of the era was exactly right, and she lived through the
    period depicted.  (She especially liked the Cobalt Club.)  Admittedly,
    she was a member of a small percentage of the population, but she enjoyed
    it thoroughly.

    One of the difficulties of introducing a whole new generation to a
    character in a medium other than the original to a new generation is that
    they're not grounded in the original mythos.  Recently, we've had a
    thread about which OTR shows, if "done RIGHT" could transition to current
    TV.  I had a lively exchange off-line with an OTR enthusiast as to why
    Captain Midnight couldn't make the transition to an hour TV show.  What
    after a bit emerged in my perception was that some shows could not
    maintain the original mythos in the new medium.

    "Simplifying" or revising the original character in many cases leaves the
    viewer with at best a stick-figure of the original, and usually an
    entirely different character sharing only the name of the original.

    Stephen A. Kallis, Jr.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 22:22:45 -0400
    From: Steve Gibbs <stevegibbs@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Re:Seven Nights a Week

       From: Penne
       Subject:  Seven Nights a Week

>     I never heard of "MBS".  It was apparently right up there with the other
>     three, as it listed well-known shows of the time. Just wondering what
>     the"M" stood for.

    MBS was the Mutual Broadcasting System, wasn't it?  A
    big player, indeed!

    ------------------------------

    Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 22:38:42 -0400
    From: Shenbarger@[removed]
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Re: Scarlet Queen Like TV Series
    X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative
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    In a message dated 6/19/2003 7:43:37 PM Central Daylight Time, Doug Leary
    writes:

>     I would love to see a quality presentation of Voyage of the Scarlet Queen,
>     although possibly this series was already transplanted to television in the
>     form of the original Star Trek series.

>     Consider: the ship arrives in a different port every show. The captain and
>     first mate go ashore, immediately run into trouble, get in a fight or two,
>     solve the problem, get back on the ship and leave. Troubled, exotic women
>     who throw themselves at the captain usually end up dead or incarcerated. And
>     each show begins and ends with the captain's log entry.

    ABC's "Adventures in Paradise" (1959-62) was similar to "The Adventures of
    the Scarlet Queen". The schooner Tiki in the series was actually the
    "California", built by the uncle of a friend of mine. The California was used
    for several
    years in San Diego as a harbor cruising cocktail lounge until it burned.

    >From one of the books in my library - " ... The schooner, Tiki, ranged across
    the area from Hong Kong to Pitcairn Island with all sorts of adventurers,
    schemers, and island beauties [removed] in the cast were young
    Tahitians
    and other lovely young women who seemed to abound in this series."

    The original story was written by James A. Mitchner, but he had little or
    nothing to do with the TV screen plays.

    Don Shenbarger

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    ------------------------------

    Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 23:17:07 -0400
    From: "Read G. Burgan" <rgb@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  OTR ET's

    Martin Grams Jr. asks about the procedure of recording programs on 16 inch
    electrical transcriptions.  There were some differences in how the
    recordings were made.  Generally, two recording lathes were used if the
    program was longer than 15 minutes (prior to the introduction of microgroove
    ET's in the 1950's).  The recording lathes were usually connected to a
    common source with a switch determining which lathe was receiving the
    signal.  As the first lathe neared the end of its recording capacity, the
    second lathe was started with the cutting stylus lowered on the disc.  At an
    appropriate point in the program, the engineer would flip the switch so that
    the second lathe was now receiving the signal.  It is not uncommon to find a
    silent groove for as long as 30 seconds at the beginning of a second ET as
    the engineer waited for an appropriate time to make the switch.  Hour long
    programs were generally recorded with sides one and three on one ET and
    sides two and four on the other.

    Because the equalization was adjusted as the cutting stylus approached the
    center of the disc, some would record the first disc outside-in, and the
    second one inside-out so that the sound would match when playing the ET's
    back.  The opposite was also true, [removed]: the first disc could be recorded
    inside-out, and the second one outside-in.  I have at least one set of ET's
    with the first disc recorded outside-in and the second disc recorded
    inside-out.

    A few programs -- the Old Fashioned Revival Hour among them -- eventually
    went to a system where the final 1 minute of each disc was duplicated at the
    beginning of the next disc.  That way the playback engineer could choose
    where he wanted to make the change over from one disc to the next.  Part of
    the reason for that is programs like the OFRH often were in the middle of a
    musical number at the switchover point.  I have some earlier discs where a
    disc ends in the middle of a musical syllable.  It would have been pretty
    hard to mate the two discs precisely under those conditions.

    Read Burgan

    ------------------------------

    Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 23:26:40 -0400
    From: "Mary Anne Morel" <morel@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Re: Martin Gabel and Arlene Francis

    Greetings to all,

    I've come out of lurk mode to ask if the radio and stage actor Martin Gabel,
    mentioned in Ron Sayles' much-appreciated daily birth/death column, was the
    one married to Arlene Francis. Did they do any radio work together in the
    '30s and '40s? I remember Arlene principally from the TV game show, What's My
    Line? but have read that she did a lot of radio work in game shows, soap
    operas and dramatic programs. I always liked Arlene Francis--she seemed a
    warm, elegant and approachable person--and wonder if she appeared in any of
    the radio series often discussed on OTR, as a guest or principal player.

    Sign me "Just Curious",

    Mary Anne Morel

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 09:17:06 -0400
    From: "Donald & Kathleen Dean" <dxk@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Chet Atkins birthplace

    In Digest #241 Ron Sayles listed Chet Atkins birthplace as such:

>     06-20-1924 - Chet Atkins - Luttrell, TX - d. 6-30-2001
>     guitarist: "Boone County Neighbors"; "Grand Ole Opry"

    Chet was born in Luttrell, TN (Tennessee) not Luttrell, TX (Texas)
    In fact, I could not find a Luttrell in Texas.

    Don Dean

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 09:17:39 -0400
    From: "Lois Culver" <lois@[removed];
    To: "OTR Digest" <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  For Penne Yingaling

    MBS was the other network -- Mutual Broadcasting System
    And no, there were none of those offensive talk shows on at that time.

    Lois Culver
    KWLK Radio (Mutual) Longview, WA 1941-44
    KFI Radio (NBC) Los Angeles CA 1945-47, 50-53
    Widow of Howard Culver, actor

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 09:19:08 -0400
    From: Roo61@[removed] (Randy Watts)
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Re: Edgar Bergen

>     Jerry was a much better ventriloquist, since
>     Bergen's lips always moved.

    Edgar Bergen's talent as a ventriloquist has gotten a bad rap because
    his lip movements were sometimes quite noticeable.  There was actually a
    practical reason why Bergen adopted that habit.  There are certain vocal
    sounds that ventriloquists cannot make without moving their lips.  They
    get around this by substituting similar sounds that can be made without
    lip movement.  Watching a ventriloquist perform, audiences are
    distracted by the visual aspects of the act and don't hear these
    substitutions.  Bergen was unable to do this on radio, where the
    audience couldn't be led away from any vocal sleight-of-hand that was
    going on by watching his interaction with the dummy.  He had to allow
    his technique to get sloppy so that he could speak all of Charlie and
    Mortimer's words correctly.  Listeners would been very aware that
    Charlie was saying "vasevall" rather than "baseball."  Watch any of
    Bergen's 1930s Vitaphone one-reelers (they turn up on Turner Classic
    Movies from time-to-time) and you can see in those that he was in fact
    an excellent ventriloquist.  Presumably, by the time he began appearing
    on television, the sloppier technique he had adopted for radio had
    become too much of a habit to break.

    Randy

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 09:19:26 -0400
    From: "Walden Hughes" <hughes1@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  repackageing

    Hi Everybody,

    I been listening to the Cambel Playhouse this week, and recalled that in mid
    to late 1980s that cambel Soup responder their old shows, and had Helen
    Hayes do new commercial for the show.  Does any one else recall if any other
    repackaging an old show with the same sponsor acored beside Cambel?  Does
    any one recall who was person  who came up with that good idea back in the
    1980s.  Take care,

    Walden Hughes

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 09:21:55 -0400
    From: "Alain Altounian" <[removed]@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Voyage of the Scarlet Enterprise?

    Interesting similarities were brought up between "Voyage of the Scarlet
    Queen" and "Star Trek".

    I thought of at least two more ;

    1. In both, the introductory captain's voiceover is done over the backdrop
    of their ship in motion and accelerating to top speed.

    2. The lead's in both series often refer to their "ship" as the woman they
    like most and will always be faithful to(!)

    The one and only quote i know from Star Trek's creator Gene Roddenberry, is
    his semi-well-known comment that he sold Star Trek  to the TV network by
    pitching it as "Wagon Train to the stars"

    Alain.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 09:54:56 -0400
    From: "Martin Grams, Jr." <mmargrajr@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Monster Bash Inner Sanctum

    For anyone near the Pittsburgh, PA area, check out the web-site
    [removed]
    and check out the Monster Bash convention information.
    The Monster Bash is a horror convention for those who like old time movies
    and nostalgic horror.
    Satellite Media will be there with their radio shows and DVDs, I'll be there
    signing books, and on Saturday night, a little before midnight, they are
    playing on the big screen one of the best INNER SANCTUM movies from the
    1940s, WEIRD WOMAN with Lon Chaney, Jr.
    Anyone who lives within driving distance of Pittsburgh, stop by and check it
    out.  It's lots of fun.
    Martin

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 09:54:53 -0400
    From: "Martin Grams, Jr." <mmargrajr@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Edgar Bergen

    Herb Harrison asked:

>     [removed] what made Bergen & McCarthy, etc. so popular on radio, and in movies,
>     and on TV?
>     By the way, did Bergen have a TV show of his own?

    Bergen was filmed for his own TV show.  Two TV pilots for his program was
    filmed but neither was any good and failed to gain a sponsor so they never
    went any further than the two pilots.  I have them on VHS and watched them
    myself, while the Thanksgiving episode isn't bad, the other one was not
    impressive.

    Bergen was the host of a television quiz show called DO YOU TRUST YOUR WIFE?
    and his puppets were the panelists but it only lasted a few months.
    Eventually the producer had to change the title near the end of the series
    because of Christian groups complaining about the title of the show.

    Bergen was guest on numerous television series (especially programs produced
    by his good friend Dick Powell) so Bergen can occassionally be seen in
    reruns of Burke's Law and Star Playhouse - which Powell produced.  He was a
    guest on THE WALTONS, VOYAGE TO THE BOTTOM OF THE SEA and other programs.

    If you want a neat radio guest appearance Bergen did, he was in a broadcast
    of RICHARD DIAMOND, PRIVATE DETECTIVE where both Edgar and his wife (sans
    Charlie) appeared in a radio broadcast.  It exists in circulation, I heard
    the broadcast and was shocked to hear them playing a straight lead instead
    of comedy, but don't recall the title at the moment.

    Both Lou Genco and Terry Salomonson will be featuring a lengthy broadcast
    log of all 730+ CHARLIE McCARTHY radio broadcasts on their site shortly.
    The episode guide/broadcast log should be up on the web in a couple weeks -
    I'll drop a line on the Digest to let people know when it's up.  The log
    also lists Bergen's other radio appearances, TV appearances, movies and so
    on.  Very lengthy.

    Martin Grams, Jr.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 09:54:50 -0400
    From: rodney-selfhelpbikeco@[removed]
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Re: popularity of Bergan

    In my opinion, what made Edgar Bergan so great wasn't his talents at throwing
    his voice (which I admit he wasn't the best at) but his ability to develop
    characters.  Charlie McCarthy was a wonderful character, and listening to the
    show at it's peak really proves it.

    I never cared for Effie Klink, but we're all entitled to a miss now and
    [removed]

    rodney.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 12:21:40 -0400
    From: Kermyt Anderson <kermyta@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  RE: Partial "Suspense" shows

    Richard Carpenter helpfully listed several Suspense
    episodes that exist only in imcomplete form. One of
    these, 1951-04-26 The 13th Sound (not 1952 at Richard
    states), is a rebroadcast, and you can hear the full
    version (starring Agnes Moorehead) from 02/13/47. The
    others don't appear to have been recycled within the
    series. However, the first two on the list (1943-02-09
    Hangman Won't Wait, 1943-02-23 Will You Walk Into My
    Parlor) were both written by John Dickson Carr, who
    had a habit of reusing his scripts elsewhere. Perhaps
    they were broadcast on a different show, and those
    versions survive?

    Kermyt

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 12:50:49 -0400
    From: John Francis MacEachern <johnfmac@[removed];
    To: OTR Digest <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  XM Radio update

    Well, it was bound to happen, yesterday I heard my first
    repeat show on XM; it was an episode of Imagination
    Theater.  Considering that I got XM in November and they
    only have two stations devoted to our kind of shows, that's
    not too bad.  It sure beats this past season of TV shows.
    They also had an all day tribute to Bob Hope on his
    birthday.

    Of course, I don't live in my car 24/7 so there probably has
    been plenty of other repeats, but this was my first.  I hope
    the this summer is not a repeat of last winter's schedule;
    we'll see.   I have to admit that since I've had XM, I
    almost always listen to OTR, I can count on one hand the
    number of times I've listen to a rock station since
    November.

    John Mac

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 13:01:26 -0400
    From: John Francis MacEachern <johnfmac@[removed];
    To: OTR Digest <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Car radios of old

    Hi.

    I've got a question for the folks of the Digest who are old
    enough to have heard the original broadcasts.  Were car
    radios common?  I know some cars had radios in the 30's and
    40's, did most or were they only in luxury cars?  If you had
    one in your car and arrived at your destination before the
    program was over how did you handle it, did you stay in the
    car and listen or shut it of and go about your business?
    Did you plan trips or errands around the times when the
    shows would be broadcast?

    With my XM radio, since the shows are not on CD or tape, I
    find myself sitting in parking lots, way to often for my
    convenience, waiting to hear the conclusion of the show.
    Was it the same back then?

    Thanks.

    John Mac

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 14:35:21 -0400
    From: JackBenny@[removed]
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Who played Ed?
    X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative
    X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain

    Arlene Osbourne asked?

>     Which brings to mind my question, who played Ed?

    That was Joe Kearns.

    --Laura Leff
    President, IJBFC
    [removed]

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