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To:	otr@[removed]
CC:	
Subj:	[removed] Digest V95 #406

 
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	    [removed]   Volume 95 : Issue 406


Articles in this issue of [removed]:

	
	 E. Bergen; rumors; two cents
	 RE: Questions on CBSRMT
	 ADMINISTRIVIA: More OTR Logs
	 RE:University of Memphis otr collection.
	 Ghost Train
	 Charlie McCarthy/Fat Man

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 20 Nov 1995 17:15:01 -0500
From: alabok@[removed] (Bob Jennings)
To: otr@[removed]
Message-Id: <[removed]@[removed]>

        Re comments made by many on private ownership of radio shows by big
companies et [removed]
        I'm sure many readers of this forum are indeed tired of hearing
about the rights of private property owners, but as a matter of fact this
stuff does relate directly to otr and to us as collectors specifically.
        I pretty much agree with Sean Dougherty and Robert Paine; the
copyright holder/owner can do whatever he wants with his property and if he
choses to grind them into scrap or toss them into the dump, then that is his
right and priviledge.
        The problem is of course that we would rather that this not happen.
The simple fact of the matter is that most of the otr now circulating in
collections like yours and mind which has surfaced over the past fifteen to
twenty years did not come from some little old guy with a bunch of wire
recordings or transcription disks he saved from the thirties and forties.
        What has happened is that aggressive collectors and dealers have
located staches of disks and tapes and have simpily approperiated the things
for their own use.  This has been done usually without the knowledge or
permission of the original show's owners, like it or not.
        The other simple facts are that most of the owners of these old
shows either don't know that they own the old shows, don't know that they
have copies of them somewher, and more important, don't care one way or the
other.
        The number of companies which have helped or are likely to ever help
collectors of this hobby is miniscule at best.  For every Johnson & Johnson
who supports us and respectes their old shows, there are hundreds of Ralston
Purinas who just don't give a damn because it's not their line of work, and
there's no money to made off the deal.
        That leaves it up to those in the hobby who are bold enough to
pounce when opportunity presents itself, and "liberate" copies of these
programs so that they can be enjoyed by the rest of us.  With modern tape
recording equipment you only have to make one copy of th6e material, and the
transcription disks or original tapes or wire, is still left in the
possession of the original owner and they don't even need to know any more
about it.
        The most recent example I can think of is Tom Salome's recent
acquisition of all those Superman tapes.  For years it had been an open
secret that DC Comics had hundreds of hours of transcription disks sitting
in their NYCity offices, which staff members and interns could go thru and
listen to any time they have a few minutes to kill.  It was only Tom, who,
possibily thru the insideous forces of bribery, managed to free up those
shows and make them available to this hobby.  DC and their current parent
company, Warner Corp sat on those shows for decades, even when they were
well aware that there were thousands of fans who wanted to hear the things,
because they (DC/Warner) couldn't see any way to make a L*O*T of money off
the things.  And if they couldn't make a L*O*T of money, then they just
didn't care.
        Well, Tom cared, and he managed, thru whatever methods he chose to
use, to get that stuff out and into this hobby.  After some initial shock,
followed by a lot of whinning and complaining, DC has pretty much gone back
to the stage of not caring either.  That is the case with pretty nearly all
these companies or advertising agencies who produced or owned those radio
shows.  When they are "liberated" they really don't care.
        So kiddies, while I certainly support the right of private ownership
and all that, at the same time I also strongly favor gurellia tactics to
open the closed vaults and get this material out to those of us who do care
about the old shows and who do love the medium.
        The fact still remains that we are a small, tight group of
collectors and that there is probably never going to be any B*I*G money to
be made out of old radio shows.  Without the Big Money inducement
corporations just don't care, and they don't seem to much care when
collectors manage to free up these shows and pass them around either.
        That's my final say on the matter, except to suggest we could use a
few more "liberators" in this hobby right now.

        ----Bob Jennings

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 20 Nov 1995 15:15:08 -0600
From: John Henley <jhenley@[removed]>
To: otr@[removed]
Subject: E. Bergen; rumors; two cents
Message-Id: <[removed]@[removed]>

I was checking out the programming on Turner Classic Movies yesterday
morning - some of the very best stuff on there is used as filler and not
listed in the schedule.  Pretty early, about 7:30, on came an ancient
Vitaphone short subject starring Edgar Bergen with Charlie McCarthy.  From
the looks of things, I'd have to say this short dated from between 1930 and
34.  Bergen was _very_ young and rather dapper, and Charlie was in his
original persona of an articulate street kid in an oversize sweater.  Now,
the jokes in this short weren't very good to be sure, but it was
fascinating not only because Edgar (& Charlie!) were so young, but because
Bergen's delivery style was pretty well formed as we know it today - that
sort of "la-de-da" approach of Charlie's.  Bergen's physical movements were
also pretty smooth, and I got to thinking that even though (as he himself
was first to admit) he may have been a lip-mover, he had a couple of means
of hiding that fact.  One was by keeping both Charlie and _himself_ in
constant motion - Bergen's head twists and turns around almost as much as
Charlie's.  The second way was thru his own genius at characterization -
that his lips move doesn't matter because that kid sitting on his lap is
ALIVE and is a distinct personality.  
It's because of the latter that I think Bergen was the greatest
ventriloquist ever.  All the jokes about how unlikely it was for a
ventriloquist to be on the radio are pretty silly, IMO - because in
listening to that program, it's so easy to believe you're hearing dialogue
between two individuals.
Anyway, I really enjoyed seeing Edgar at that point in his career, and
wanted to share it.  
*******
A couple of posts on here recently have passed on information with the
proviso in so many words that "Rumor has [removed]"  The information is then
presented and discussed as if it were fact.  It ought to go without saying
that rumors are wrong way more often than they're right, and I see no point
in getting oneself all worked up about something that may be completely
false.  
*******
Lots of two-cents coming into the communal piggy-bank of opinion here.  So
here's my deposit:  I've been distressed by the lowering of the tone in
this newslist lately.  I don't agree that flames are a natural part of
e-mail communication.  Bad manners are bad manners, and anonymity or
distance don't release any of us from civility.
If you have a diatribe (or, to be kinder, "essay") to post, and it goes on
and on and on, at the very least don't expect everyone to read every word
of it.
(Notwithstanding the length of my first paragraph [removed] he [removed])
Thanks,
John Henley
jhenley@[removed]
ph  (512) 495-4112
fax (512) 495-4296

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 20 Nov 1995 19:41:00 -0500 (EST)
From: Randy Minnehan <rminneha@[removed]>
To: otr@[removed]
Subject: RE: Questions on CBSRMT
Message-ID: <[removed]@acme>

Hello [removed]

   To answer Bob Underwood's questions regarding the CBS RADIO MYSTERY
[removed] the shows are not available commerically due to Himan Brown
himself not wishing to do so.  His feelings are that the writers and
actors and everyone else assocaited with it were paid only for use on the
CBSRMT, and if they are resold by venders, royalities could not be
collected. He has plans (so he told me) to bring back the show somehow
someway, although this has been his dream since the show ended at the end
of 1982.  Himan Brown is alive and well living in NYC, but writing him
will not change his mind on this matter, as many others will tell you, he
is very outspoken about protecting the CBSRMT.

   A log of the CBSRMT is currently unavailable, however, I have two
complete lists of the shows and dates and writers, and I am working on
making a log available along with other material from the show
(interviews, promo stuff, etc.). This log book *should* be ready by this
next Spring by the Cincy otr convention.

   Even though the CBSRMT shows are not available commerically, the
complete run is in the hands of otr collectors (3000+ shows) and can be
had by means of trading for them.  I have over 100 shows, and I'm looking
for other collectors to trade CBSRMTs [removed] if interested, please
contact me directly.

   There are other shows in the same vain as the CBSRMT at are "modern"
otr, namely my favorite, NIGHTFALL.  I personally feel the NIGHTFALL
stories are better than the CBSRMT, but that's my opinion.  NIGHTFALL was
produced and broadcast by the CBC, although several were also aired by NPR
in the States.  The shows are only 30 minutes long, but very scary.  I
have 36 in *beautiful* stereo, and many more in mono.  I'd especially be
interested in hearing from any of you out there with more of the stereo
broadcasts.  Another show, again produced by the CBC, is VANISHING POINT.
They too are good, but not as good as NIGHTFALL. And again, they are
better in [removed] I have 24 in [removed] anyone out there have more than
this?

   Thanks goes to Kevin for posting here on the net the log of NIGHTFALL
that I got directly from the CBC.  Anyone have a log on VANISHING POINT?
If not, I may have to write the CBC again.

--------------------------------------------------
|Randy Minnehan - rminneha@[removed]|
--------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 20 Nov 1995 19:10:27 -0600
From: Lou Genco <lgenco@[removed]>
To: otr@[removed]
Subject: ADMINISTRIVIA: More OTR Logs
Message-Id: <[removed]@[removed]>

Shhhh ... don't tell anybody yet, but I have stored all of Frank Passage's
great OTR logs at my -new- WWW site.  Brave and intrepid explorers there
will also find logs by Dale Beers and other folks.

Remember, do NOT set your bookmarks or hotlists there yet. Its address will
change in the not too distant future.  Keep your bookmark at my "old" site
for a while, and let me know if anything needs fixing at the new site. 

Lou
------------------------------------------------------------------------
WWW page on "Old Time Radio":         [removed]~[removed]
------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 20 Nov 1995 20:14:18 -0500 (EST)
From: Randy Minnehan <rminneha@[removed]>
To: otr@[removed]
Subject: RE:University of Memphis otr collection.
Message-ID: <[removed]@acme>

Hello again [removed]

   I placed an order for 20 shows (ten tapes), and I too had majour
problems, such as shows being recorded too low, slow speeds, wrong shows
and/or blank sides.  I contacted Dr. Bensman there, and he is very
concerned about making the system work correctly.  It's a great service if
the bugs can be worked out, and I'm sure they will.  Don't give up on them!

--------------------------------------------------
|Randy Minnehan - rminneha@[removed]|
--------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: 20 Nov 1995 23:42:08 GMT
From: [removed]@[removed] (Ron B. Hare)
To: otr@[removed]
Subject: Ghost Train
Message-Id: <[removed]@[removed]>

M. Rutkaus asked about a disappearing train OTR episode:

Sounds somewhat similar to STRANGE "The Ghost Train" about people picking up
the ghost of a girl every Christmas near a long-abandoned rail line. It lacks
the people sitting on the hill, but there was a hill involved. The hero hears
a steam whistle before picking up the ghost (and the dialog makes the point
that this is the Diesel era). I don't have a date for this episode, but it
sounds "early 50s".
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Transmitted via LiveWire, a Virtual Valley service. Modem: [removed]
(FirstClass, VT-100)  Voice: [removed]; E-mail: online@[removed]

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 20 Nov 1995 19:59:21 -0500
From: ir002126@[removed]
To: otr@[removed]
Subject: Charlie McCarthy/Fat Man
Message-Id: <[removed]@[removed]>

Thanks to those of you who responded to my question regarding Edgar
Bergan using dummies (even though he did not call them dummies) on his
radio shows.

I don't know if anyone here is interested in the old show THE FAT MAN,
but thought I would share this information.  In the late fifties I was
working in a building in Los Angeles which my employer shared with
other businesses.  One day when returning from lunch I noticed a
person on my floor stacking large records up in our hall.  I asked him
what this was about and he said his employer, an advertising agency,
was throwing out these recordings of old radio [removed] He explained
that it was his understanding that the shows were recorded off the air
for documentation and legal reasons.  He did not know which shows were
on these records.  I asked if it was OK if I had the janitor move them
into my office rather than the trash-- of course he did not object.

The janitor put the records in my office and on the weekend we moved
them to my car and I took them home.  The records were 16 inches
across and would not fit on my record player.  I talked to a friend
who had a friend who could copy the records to reel tape.  I had a
Webcor tape recorder, so this sounded like a good deal.

Months later I picked up my reels of recorded tape (which I had
purchased) and paid a small amount for the guy taking the shows from
records and putting on tape.  I offered him these records (since I
could not play them) and he told me part of the bargain was that I had
to get the records out of his studio.

Now I had (I believe) 117 records and a whole box of tapes.  Over the
course of several months I listened to the tapes and the all turned
out to be THE FAT MAN.  The label on each record has the mame of a
recording service, and someone has taped a small piece of paper which
has a date and title (in quotes) to this label.  All the titles start
with the word "Murder" such as "Murder on the Rails", "Murder on
Account",  "Murder and the Doll Baby", etc.  All the dates are from
1947, 1948, 1949 & 1950.

Long ago I got rid of the tapes and tape recorder.  In the mid 1980s I
wrote to the Library of Congress and asked if they wanted the records.
 I offered to give the records to them free, I would pack and ship
them the records if they would pay the shipping costs.  I got an
un-responsive form letter telling me how much they appreciated my
interested in the Library of Congress and that they did not purchase
unsolicited materials.  This was not responsive so I mailed the letter
to my Congressional representative-- and she never responded!!  They
wonder why some of us don't vote!

My wife and I are retiring to Florida in January and we are not taking
these records.

------------------------------

    


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---- 
End of [removed] Digest V95 Issue #406
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