Subject: [removed] Digest V01 #212
From: <[removed]@[removed]>
Date: 7/1/2001 9:10 AM
To: <[removed]@[removed];

------------------------------


                      The Old-Time Radio Digest!
                         Volume 01 : Issue 212
                   A Part of the [removed]!
                           ISSN: 1533-9289


                           Today's Topics:

 My errors; the RS contest            [John Mayer <mayer@[removed];        ]
 Radio Memories Indeed                ["Stephen A Kallis, Jr." <skallisjr@]
 In The Middle of a Pickle            ["Stephen A Kallis, Jr." <skallisjr@]
 Department of Obscure Data           ["Stephen A Kallis, Jr." <skallisjr@]
 Timeless and Topical                 ["Stephen A Kallis, Jr." <skallisjr@]
 Elvis and the bolt                   [Richard Carpenter <sinatra@ragingbu]
 If radio still was                   [Richard Carpenter <sinatra@ragingbu]
 Re: Calling All Cars                 [Michael Biel <mbiel@[removed];       ]
 Re: SHERLOCK HOLMES and DWIGHT WEIST [SanctumOTR@[removed]                 ]
 Maurice Rocco/Elvis                  [Bhob Stewart <bhob2@[removed]; ]
 Re: Radio Listings                   [OTRChris@[removed]                   ]
 Archie Episodes                      [[removed]@[removed]        ]
 Dwight Weist                         [hal stone <dualxtwo@[removed];    ]
 General Mills Radio Adventure Theate ["greg przywara" <orsonwelles3@home.]
 Old & New                            [Wich2@[removed]                      ]
 Berle Work                           [PFornatar@[removed]                  ]
 copyright & quoting OTR  shows       [khovard@[removed]                   ]

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 09:40:03 -0400
From: John Mayer <mayer@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  My errors; the RS contest

JimInks@[removed] offered:
...I wanted to point out errors that John Mayer made in
regards to the Captain Marvel-Superman [removed]

"Lois Culver" <lois@[removed]; clarified:
Nope, Mr. [removed] Pow-Wow was a creation of The Harpers in SC.

Bhob Stewart <bhob2@[removed]; added:
Some more Captain Marvel Jr. clarifications to add to Jim
Amash’s corrections of John Mayer’s post:

And what with slandering Mr. Kallis by calling him a lawyer, my
credibility's taking some hits lately. But that's why I usually qualify
my statements with "as I recall." Only occasionally do I trouble to do
research before I respond to a posting; that begins to seem too much
like work, rather than an idle pastime. Hopefully my memory is sound
enough to generally get the basic gist close enough to be of some value.
At any rate, I hereby introduce the new e-mail acronym to represent the
phrase "as I recall," which is, of course, AIR. Even should I forget to
include this disclaimer, it is to be inferred in all my postings, unless
I credit some less fallible source. Remember, please, that to AIR is
human.

But to further clarify Mr. Inks' Captain Marvel info, even though DC
comics (National) brought their infamous lawsuit early after his
appearance in 1940, the Captain and his family managed to hang on for
many years. I wasn't even born until 1945, and I had time to become a
fan. (_Encyclopedia of Comics_ by Maurice Horn says his last appearance
was in 1954.) I recall wondering why I couldn't find Captain Marvel
comics, but had I known the story then, I surely would have boycotted
Superman, as I later urged others to boycott Archie comics when I
learned of the publisher's connection to the Comics Code Authority.
_________________________________________________________

Michael Biel <mbiel@[removed]; offered:
Here are the "Contest Rules" exactly as stated in the RSI catalog:
"The names of the people placing an order from this catalog
on or before 09-15-01 will automatically be entered into a drawing
for all 5 [removed]'t miss out on the chance to win!"...
Read this carefully.  It does not state that you MUST [removed]

Good of Michael to so reliably rise to the defense of the beleaguered
(here, anyhow) Mr. Amari, but the point is that the contest page does
not unambiguously assure the reader that No Purchase is Necessary, as
required by law. In fact, the cautionary note "not to miss out on this
chance to win" suggests the contrary. Sure, this might have been an
oversight, but Carl's been at this game a long time and he surely knows
the rules. I used to work in the field of advertising (I know; who am I
to cast aspersions on lawyers, but I was driven to desperate lengths by
having foolishly squandered my youth earning a BFA degree). There are
certain legal requirements in advertising that one quickly learns by
heart: you automatically rough in the legal boilerplate at the same time
you rough in the cut of the car. "NO PURCHASE REQUIRED TO WIN" comes as
instinctively in contest copy as does an exclamation point.

Whether his omission of the assurance that no purchase was necessary was
inadvertent or not, he may not be off the hook. Publishers'
Clearinghouse was recently found guilty of deceptive marketing practices
and ordered to return over $18,000,000 to customers, even though they
DID state that no purchase was required; prosecutors claimed they did
not do a good enough job assuring the recipients of their come-ons that
their ODDS of winning would not be improved by ordering magazine
subscriptions. It was also found that only a very careful reading
revealed that some mailings were not announcements of a prize already
won. (See <[removed];) Other sweepstakes
firms are being prosecuted or have already settled; one was ordered to
pay $50,000,000 about a year ago. Many of these firms were found to
especially single out the elderly, who are not always as alert as they
were in their youth.

Many of the fans of OTR are also elderly people who seek to recapture
fond memories. Are we really expected to deduce that Mr. Amari probably
just left off the disclaimer and go ahead and send in the form with only
our address? Most such forms, in addition to the No Purchase notice,
also have a checkbox of some sort next to a phrase like, "I don't care
to order at this time, but please enter me in the contest anyway."
Something like that would have made the matter more clear, in spite of
the lack of disclaimer.

Sure, RS isn't in the league of those marketing giants recently
prosecuted, and, ordinarily, I would urge everyone to give them the
benefit of the doubt, to cut them a little slack. But this firm is not
known for giving much slack to the old-timers who originally preserved
these audio treasures and helped to get the hobby started and
popularized. I urge everyone who received one of the catalogs with the
confusing contest information - I got one myself, since I used to
purchase quite a bit from RS - to contact your postal inspector or maybe
the Consumer Protection division of the Federal Trade Commission for
advice on what course of action to follow.

Don't hesitate, though, to follow Mr. Biel's advice: give Radio Spirits
a call and tell them you'd like a chance at that nifty Blue Coal ring.
By the time you get your next catalog YOU MAY ALREADY BE A WINNER.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 09:40:14 -0400
From: "Stephen A Kallis, Jr." <skallisjr@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Radio Memories Indeed

Harlan(Hal) Stone, in an aside to me observed,

Well, Stephen, you'll have to admit, there is certainly one OTR dealer
who doesn't need to hire new PR people! :)

Absolutely.  This gives me a chance also to sing the praises of Mr.
Davenport.  He's an example of someone who's truly dedicated to OTR.  His
was a really selfless gesture to Hal Stone.

Stephen A. Kallis, Jr.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 09:40:30 -0400
From: "Stephen A Kallis, Jr." <skallisjr@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  In The Middle of a Pickle

George Kelly asks, anent a Jack Benny allusion,

Didn't this parody the line:  "pickle in the middle and the mustard on
top?"  Can someone tell me who spoke this line and why it was funny?

If memory serves, one of the characters, Mr. Kitzel, used the phrase when
vending got hot dogs or sandwiches.  It was used in a number of shows,
and there was even a short musical ditty developed around the phrase.

I haven't even thought of the phrase for a long time.

Stephen A. Kallis

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 09:41:00 -0400
From: "Stephen A Kallis, Jr." <skallisjr@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Department of Obscure Data

G A Wolfe recounts,

I'm on trip with "Dante" and guess who I ran into on the way? That's
right, "Mr. Afore Mentioned." I always knew that "Mr. Afore Mentioned's"
business ethics were going to get
him sent to Dante's homeland ....

Well, Italy's nice, this time of year. :-)

Just to keep that from being too obscure, Dante Alighieri was an Italian
poet of the late 13th-early 14th Century who authored The Divine Comedy,
a poetic trilogy, "Inferno," "Purgatory," and "Paradise."  I assume Mr.
Wolfe is making an indirect reference to the first book of the three.

Stephen A. Kallis, Jr.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 09:41:35 -0400
From: "Stephen A Kallis, Jr." <skallisjr@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Timeless and Topical

Philip Chavin, speaking on the "Benny Versus Allen" thread, observes,

The overall opinion here (and in OTR history books, for example) seems
to be: Timeless humor is much more worthwhile than Topical humor.

Well, "worthwhile" is a tricky word.  IMHO, "timeless" humor has merits
in that anyone at any place can share in the humor without having to
prepare himself or herself.  That's why comedies as far back as
Aristophenes can still be enjoyed.

Topical humor can be as funny at the time, but over the years what makes
it humorous gets lost.  For a student of history or pop culture, the
topical humor could elicit a laugh, a chuckle, or simply an appreciation
of how certain then-current situations were being viewed by humorists of
the era.  But a full appreciation of what was being said requires a lot
of preparation, whereas none of that is necessary for "timeless" humor.

Stephen A. Kallis, Jr.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 11:07:17 -0400
From: Richard Carpenter <sinatra@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Elvis and the bolt

Rob Chatlin writes:

I'm not sure of the origin of Elvis'lightning bolt, with it was always
accompannied by the letters TCB. Together, it was Elvis' "philosophy"
for things: Taking Care of Business "in a flash". If this is related
to the comics at all, I'm not sure.'

Elvis one said something like, "When I was a boy, I was the hero of every
comic book." His particular favorite was Captain Marvel, and indeed the TCB
(Taking Care of Business) lightning bolt is meant to be the bolt that
accompanied Captain Marvel when he said the magic word SHAZAM1

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 11:07:36 -0400
From: Richard Carpenter <sinatra@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  If radio still was

   I think the speculation about whether radio comedies, dramas, etc., would
be popular today if they continued to be produced, was answered by Jack Benny
after television had firmly taken hold. He told an interviewer that you could
put on the world's greatest radio show and no one would listen.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 11:45:01 -0400
From: Michael Biel <mbiel@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Re: Calling All Cars

Elizabeth discussed the 1934 syndication of recordings of the live KNX
program "Calling All Cars" and cites an item in the 3/1/34 bi-weekly
Broadcasting magazine as proof that the recordings of the program only
began during the latter two weeks of February 1934.  Unless William N.
Robson's 11/1/34 article about the series confirms that dating
specifically, I wouldn't be so quick to jump to the conclusion that the
newspiece in Broadcasting magazine was as timely as you feel it to be.
Unless actual starting dates are given (I don't have a microfilm reader
here to check the two articles myself right now), many of these filler
items were submitted and/or printed on a when-we-get-around-to-it
basis.  Thus the contract might have actually started before the time
period of this edition of the then-bi-weekly magazine.  And it might
have been in the planning stage for some time, so there might have been
a stockpiling of earlier recordings.  But everybody should take note of
her explanation of the perils of finding exact dates for syndicated
broadcasts.  This is a classic example of why it helps to have notations
of ALL the information from the original discs.

Michael Biel  mbiel@[removed]

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 12:15:29 -0400
From: SanctumOTR@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Re: SHERLOCK HOLMES and DWIGHT WEIST

In a message dated 6/30/01 8:51:03 AM, greg przywara writes:

The whole anthology detective series genre in this
country goes back to at least 1930, when Edith Meiser first sold the concept
of a Sherlock Holmes radio show to NBC.

***Except that SHERLOCK HOLMES was not a detective ANTHOLOGY show; it
featured a set of continuing characters.  And it didn't debut until October
20, 1930.  It had been preceded by CBS' TRUE DETECTIVE MYSTERIES (premiering
May 16, 1929) and Street & Smith's DETECTIVE STORY PROGRAM (premiering July
30, 1930 and hosted by James LaCurto and Frank Readick as The Shadow), both
of which were anthology programs.

Actually, the first detective to appear regularly on network radio was almost
certainly Sax Rohmer's Nayland Smith, the detective nemesis of Dr. Fu Manchu,
who was featured in twelve-part serials on NBC-Blue's THE COLLIER HOUR
beginning in 1929.***

And Jim Cox writes:

[Dwight] Weist did voice-overs for commercials as well as Pathe newsreels
shown in
motion-picture theaters.  He appeared in two movies, Radio Days (1986)
and The Name of the Rose (1989).  He died at Block Island, New York, on
July 16, 1991.

***Actually, Dwight Weist did not actually "appear" in THE NAME OF THE ROSE.
He provided the very-important voiceover narration, remembering the story as
an older version of Christian Slater's teenaged acolyte character. --ANTHONY
TOLLIN***

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 13:50:18 -0400
From: Bhob Stewart <bhob2@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Maurice Rocco/Elvis

Rob Chatlin writes:

I'm not sure of the origin of Elvis' lightning bolt, with it was
always accompannied by the letters TCB. Together, it was Elvis'
"philosophy" for things: Taking Care of Business "in a flash". If this
is related to the comics at all, I'm not sure. rob

Why "if"? Your comment diminishes what I wrote in #209:

Presley was a huge fan of CAPTAIN MARVEL JR. comics during the 1940s
and even kept his comic book collection carefully arranged in a newstand
spinner rack. Take a look at a photo of Presley’s airplane, and you’ll
see the comic book character’s lightning flash insignia painted on the
tail assembly. Presley also gave friends and associates gold bracelets
with this lightning flash. Some of the poses he used in his stage act
were variations on poses from Mac Raboy panels, and his Vegas costumes
incorporated white/gold and other design elements of costumes worn by
the Marvel Family.

Are you saying you don't believe me? Or are you saying you want another
source? Okay. Here's one: the acclaimed biography ELVIS AND GLADYS by
Elaine Dundy (1985).

Description of the first Elvis radio performance at Tupelo courthouse
(plus info on exhaustive ELVIS AND GLADYS research):
[removed]

Question: I see the boogie-woogie pianist Maurice Rocco was in the 1945
DUFFY'S TAVERN movie. Was he ever on the DUFFY'S TAVERN radio show? Does
anyone know of any existing radio shows with Rocco?

Bhob @ PRE-FUSE @ [removed]

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 13:50:52 -0400
From: OTRChris@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Re: Radio Listings

it is a myth that all West Coast repeats were live and that you
can conclusively trust newspaper radio listings.

I certainly agree with this statement .  Anyone has noticed that newpaper
listings are often incorrect.  Particularly if the program moved to a new
time slot a certain week then at times the listings are slow at  reflecting
this change.
In regard  to Suspense  this  program aired in the same Tuesday night slot
for quite some time. Multiple  west coast cities listings in the newspapers
indicated a  6:30PM  time slot.  I am pretty much sure that SUSPENSE  aired
in this time slot
as I do not think that the listings for mutiple big cities over a years time
would incorrectly list the time this program aired.
One time I  noticed in a newspaper listing that it noted that JACK BENNY
would be rebroadcast  ( Not a seperate live show  but  a playback of the
earlier live show )  every Sunday Night at 9:30  on KFI  Los Angeles.  Now I
didn't know if KFI had received  special  permission from  NBC  to air the
rebroadcast at 9:30 or if  NBC was playing the rebroadcast to all west coast
stations.
It turned out to be the latter as indicated by  many NBC memos  and also
based on the schedules of  the NBC stations on the west coast.
Now in regard to SUSPENSE and Sorry  Wrong Number :
  When I had first heard  of the seperate west coast show  I had to listen to
it because it went against my assertion that there was only one broadcast.
As far as I was concerned it was the exact same program ( I won't go into
details
as we have rehashed this all before.)

However,  if you take all the evidence in it's entirety  I believe that there
is substantially more evidence that there was not  a west coast re-broadcast
of this program. To be more blunt there has not been any evidence presented
to support that there WERE two  broadcasts of SORRY WRONG NUMBER  that night.

Newspaper listings do not support that contention and neither does a good
listen to the supposedly seperate west coast show.
If you beleive there were two broadcasts that night I would still have to ask
--why?



-Chris

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 13:51:20 -0400
From: [removed]@[removed]
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  Archie Episodes

Hi Hal,

Thanks for taking the time to mail on this.  I was referring to the
non-circulating episodes.  I have been very fortunate in being able to
obtain copies of the shows in circulation from a variety of trades with some
very generous people.  I'd love to hear these extra shows, but as I live in
the UK - I doubt I could take advantage of the LOC route - and also doubt I
could afford it, I'm afraid !


Paul Grieves just posted the following.

How on earth do we get our hands on them ?  Or are they locked away in a
vault somewhere, never to be release ????

Paul, are you asking about the 127 episodes that Elizabeth
mentioned were in
the Library of Congress? Or just the one's currently in circulation?


------------------------------

Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 17:38:23 -0400
From: hal stone <dualxtwo@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  Dwight Weist

Subject:  Dwight Weist

Hi Jim; You mentioned in your recent posting about Dwight Weist that he
appeared in the 1989 Movie, "The Name of the Rose". Was that the one
starring Sean Connery as the Monk Detective? If so, do you have info as to
what part Dwight played in that fascinating film?

Hal(Harlan)Stone

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 17:38:18 -0400
From: "greg przywara" <orsonwelles3@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  General Mills Radio Adventure Theater

Just discovered a neat Heiman Brown series on OTR Vault: General Mills Radio
Adventure Theater. This '70s program does a bang-up job of doing 40-minute
adaptations of classic novels like Captains Courageous and Sea Wolf that
were either overlooked during the Golden Age of radio or regrettably watered
down into oversimplified half-hour presentations. It's supposedly for kids,
but with Heiman Brown at the helm you get that dark and moody CBS RMT feel
that makes the program enjoyable for adults as well. For example, I just got
done listening to GMRAT's version of "Oliver Twist". Except for a weak
exposition, this is a pretty solid retelling of the Dickens classic compared
to the HORRENDOUS Favorite Story version which to my knowledge is the only
surviving OTR rendition of Twist.
Am downloading the GMRAT versions of Captains Courageous,Sea Wolf,and
Kidnapped as I type.
Does anyone know if any CBS RMT regulars or OTR folks ever appeared on
GMRAT?
Greg Przywara

[removed] YUSA members: Vote for variety. Vote for the shows YOU like to hear.
Vote Greg Przywara for Tape #3 DJ July 8th.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 17:38:12 -0400
From: Wich2@[removed]
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  Old & New

(RE: Brian Johnson, re: George Wagner):

Well, if NTR could exist side-by side with television it would probably be
just as raunchy as today's TV.

As a 6 year practitioner of "N" TR, I can only say that it doesn't have to be
so. I'm always surprised to find that most folks don't know there's actually
a LOT more current work out there than they think (see LodesTone, or your
local college [removed]): and the problem isn't usually raunch; just an
overall (acting, writing, production) mediocre quality- which stems from a
lack of respect for a timeless medium.

So is that why people collect old movies on VHS and DVD even though they're
still making new "talkies?"

Good is good, whether Murnau's SUNRISE or Night Shyamalan's THE SIXTH SENSE.
There's some solid new radio/audio drama out there, and Lord knows there was
plenty of insultingly bad pap in the Golden Age. It always depends on the
intent & talent of the people involved, and has next to nothing to do with
the year they're working, or the years they possess.

-Craig Wichman, QUICKSILVER RADIO THEATER

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 18:07:10 -0400
From: PFornatar@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Berle Work

I'd like to join Mr. Kukan in saying how much I enjoyed Milton's radio
program. Unfortunately, I can't get many nowadays, but remember as a kid,
enjoying his rapier wit and skill. It would be alittle later when I saw him
do six live shows---each different---each memorable. He was after all, the
highest night club entainer of the times. Soon his TV show was THE show, but
I'll never forget the schitck with Arnold Stang and of course Martha.
    Paul Fornatar

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 23:11:10 -0400
From: khovard@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  copyright & quoting OTR  shows

I would appreciate if some folks with experience with these matter would
reply to these questions. If you reply, would you kindly state what your
experience has been? Thanks

1. Are state government documents (and letters from state and other
non-federal government officials) in the public domain just as federal
government documents etc. are?

2. Are radio and television shows considered ìpublishedî if they have
been aired? I need to quote a few lines from some shows. Can I do so
without getting permission from a copyright holder?

Thank you.

					Howard

--------------------------------
End of [removed] Digest V01 Issue #212
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