Subject: [removed] Digest V2002 #197
From: "OldRadio Mailing Lists" <[removed]@[removed];
Date: 6/1/2002 4:59 PM

To: <[removed]@[removed];

    ------------------------------

                                The Old-Time Radio Digest!
                                  Volume 2002 : Issue 197
                             A Part of the [removed]!
                                     ISSN: 1533-9289

                                     Today's Topics:

      Re: WLW and the Commission            [ Elizabeth McLeod <lizmcl@[removed] ]
      You Can't Do Business with Hitler     [ Howard Blue <khovard@[removed]; ]
      Old Book Shop, Morristown NJ          [ jlawrence@[removed] ]
      Recipe for an MP3 file                [ Christopher Werner <cwerner@globalc ]
      Honeymooners Q&A/A&Q                  [ Harlan Zinck <buster@[removed]; ]
      The good side of mp3                  [ Tony Baechler <tony@[removed]; ]
      Looking for shows                     [ Tony Baechler <tony@[removed]; ]
      Re: OTR on MP3                        [ Richard Novak <rnovak@[removed]; ]
      G Washington Coffee                   [ Arcane <arcane@[removed]; ]
      Product Brands                        [ "m karp" <mkarp@[removed]; ]

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 23:58:25 -0400
    From: Elizabeth McLeod <lizmcl@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Re: WLW and the Commission

    Ed Ellers wrote:

>     This is the only time I've ever heard that, and frankly I don't believe it.
>     Yes, Crosley did initially run the 500 kW rig under an experimental license
>     (W8XO) from midnight-6 am.  But at least two sources say that the Federal
>     Radio Commission granted special temporary authority on April 17, 1934 (just
>     a few months before the FCC was created) for WLW to operate, *commercially
>     and with its own call,* at 500 kW.

    The WLW superpower story was covered in great detail by Broadcasting
    magazine over the nearly five years that the station ran at 500,000
    watts, and that pubilication offers a definitive account of exactly what
    happened and the legalities behind it. The earliest mention of the 500 kw
    project  appears in the 6/15/32 issue:

    "NEW RADIO GIANT

    "Using 500 kw, the world's most powerful broadcasting station will take
    the air within a year, under authority granted the Crosley Radio Corp.,
    Cincinnati, June 7 by the Radio Commission, to erect such a station for
    experimental operation between the hours of 1 and 6 AM. The station is to
    cost $900,000 and will be used to study service area with high power and
    the effects of such power on fading, static, and other elemental
    interferences. It will operate on WLW's clear channel 700 kc using a mast
    antenna system costing $100,000 according to J. A. Chambers, technical
    supervisor."

    Broadcasting followed the progress of the project over the next year, as
    the transmitter was constructed in Mason, OH. Then, in the 1/15/34 issue,
    a full-page article by WLW technical supervisor J. A. Chambers announced
    the beginning of on-air tests under special FRC authorization using the
    experimental call sign W8XO. Chambers also noted that construction of the
    transmitter had been completed at less than half the anticpated $900,000
    cost. An accompanying photo shows Powel Crosley Jr. with his hand on an
    enormous double-pole knife switch pretending to activate the 500kw
    transmitter. The 2/1/34 issue relates that the FRC is observing the
    experiments closely, and several additional stations are reportedly
    interested in pursuing superpower licenses if the WLW experiments result
    in a decision to authorize 500 kw as a regular operating power. J. A.
    Chambers mentions here that reception reports have been received from as
    far away as New Zealand.

    The 3/1/34 issue notes that --

    "Experimental operation during daylight hours with 500 kw now is being
    maintained by WLW Cincinnati under special temporary authority granted it
    February 24 by the Radio Commission. For the last few weeks the station
    has been on the air during early morning hours with its super power using
    the call W8X0. The experiments have been held highly successful by Joseph
    A. Chambers, WLW technical supervisor.

    "Under the new temporary grant the station will use 500 kw daily until
    March 11 between 6:30 am and 5 pm on its regular wave of 700 kc. It will
    use its regular call, WLW, during these day tests.

    "It is likely the Commission later will allow the station to test with
    500 kw during regular evening hours, to ascertain what advantages accrue
    from the use of energy ten times the maximum now permitted in the United
    States."

    The 4/1/34 issue relates -

    "Final tests preparatory to requesting authority to use superpower of 500
    kw. during regular operating hours are now being conducted by WLW
    Cincinnati with permission of the Radio Commission, granted March 20, to
    operate experimentally with this peak power full time until April 3."

    The 5/1/34 issue notes that the FRC has extended the temporary
    authorization until August 1st, and describes plans for the gala
    dedication ceremonies planned for 5/2. These ceremonies are described in
    the issue of 5/15/34, with FRC Vice Chairman Thad Brown seated next to
    Powel Crosley's brother Lewis at the head table, and President Roosevelt
    himself pressing the ceremonial gold telegraph key to symbolically sign
    on the superpower transmitter. Messages of congratulation were received
    from Guglielmo Marconi and Albert Einstein, among other global
    dignitaries.

>     >From then on, Broadcasting continued to follow the story, taking note of

    the renewals of the "temporary authorization," and of the requirement in
    December 1934 that the station be required to reconfigure itself for a
    directional nighttime pattern to reduce interference to CFRB in Toronto,
    at 690 kc. The station was required to reduce power to 50kw at local
    sunset until this adjustment was completed in March of 1935. Extensions
    continued to be granted by the FCC until February 1939, when after a long
    period of discussion, debate, and analysis, the Commission ordered that
    the station discontinue superpower operation on March 1st. The 3/1/39
    issue of Broadcasting reports:

    "The battle against WLW has had many political implications, the Senate
    at its last session having resolved against power of greater than 50,000
    watts. Moreover, regional and local stations alike have protested against
    such power on economic grounds, alleging that more superpower stations
    might result in the deterioration of non-superpower stations to purely
    local status, thus freezing out their national business."

    So, it can be seen that the entire WLW 500 kw experiment was indeed
    conducted under close supervision of the FRC/FCC. Interestingly, WLW
    maintained the 500 kw transmitter in operating condition well into the
    1960s, and made repeated efforts to convince the FCC to again authorize
    its use -- but to no avail.

    Elizabeth

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 23:57:43 -0400
    From: Howard Blue <khovard@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  You Can't Do Business with Hitler

    the entire script for a show in the [removed] government produced series, "You
    Can't Do Business with Hitler" can be viewed at my new web site. click on
    the red banner, "Propaganda"

    See [removed]

    Howard Blue

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 23:56:45 -0400
    From: jlawrence@[removed]
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Old Book Shop, Morristown NJ

    To Lee Munsick -- former Morristonian and all other members of this fine
    list,

    I am a long time NJ resident and I pass through Morristown everyday.  If I
    can help anyone in this area, please feel free to call on me.  I appreciate
    all the help I have received and I would be happy to return the service.

    Jim

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 23:59:28 -0400
    From: Christopher Werner <cwerner@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Recipe for an MP3 file

    This is *not* the voice of experience, only someone who read the manual.

    Today I was in the local Costco to buy a DVD/VCR combo player to replace
    our aging VCR and play the many DVDs that will not properly play on my
    computer DVD drive. I also bought some of my wife's favorite programs on
    DVD for her birthday as a cheap excuse to get one. Anyway, I insisted on
    comparing the manuals of the two brands that were in the store to determine
    why one was $80 more than the other, and came across the following advice
    for producing *Playable* MP3 CDs:

    - -------------------------------------------------------

    Sampling Frequency [removed] kHz

    Bit Rate 32-320 kbps

    CD-R format ISO9660

    The CD must contain a file system (as created by Easy-CD Creator and *not*
    like that created by the Direct-CD program)

    MP3 file must exist in the first track

    CD-RW disks are not recommended, use CD-R only

    File name should be 8 letters or less and end in .mp3

    No special characters ][!@#$%^&*()_+='";:/?{}|~`

    Total number of files per CD - 256

    Use 74 minute CD-R not 80 minute disks
    - -------------------------------------------------------------------

    This information comes from the Go-Video DVR4200 unit made by SonicBlue who
    also produces the Rio line of players so based on what others on this list
    have said about Rio, I have confidence they know what they are talking
    about. This information has nothing to do with the quality of the resulting
    recordings, only the sense of "If I do it this way, it will work."

    Hopefully this info will help clear up the many questions of 'what to do'
    that frequent the list. Obviously if you make them this way and you *still*
    have a problem with your player please speak up and let us know what
    doesn't work.

    BTW the $80 difference was apparently the cost of the second laser for
    DVD-R double sided playback. But the manual for that unit (a Panasonic)
    specifically said *not* to use DVD-R or DVD-RW media. Sure puzzled me, so I
    went with the Go machine.

    No endorsement, just bringing the info to the masses. I'm more interested
    in producing my own DVD movies than jamming 256 OTR shows on a CD anyway.

    Have fun.

    Chris

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 23:58:03 -0400
    From: Harlan Zinck <buster@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Honeymooners Q&A/A&Q

    After the postings earlier this week regarding the possibility that "The
    Honeymooners" was once a radio show as well as a television show, I was
    able to get in contact with the person who has the 16" lacquer disks I once
    recall being sold via eBay - and also obtain label scans of them. (Folks
    interested in seeing these can contact me off-list and I'll send them along.)

    The labels indicate the disks were recorded by the Audio-Video Recording
    Company, Inc., 730 Fifth Avenue, New York, NY. One disk has "The
    Honeymooners Part One 5/16/54" typed on it and another has "Gleason Show
    Part One 12/8/54." The first episode runs 35 minutes or so, the other
    episode is 30 minutes.

    The owner of the disks, who wishes to remain anonymous, describes their
    content:

    "There are two shows, [with labels] dated May 16, 1954 and December 8,
    1954. One of them is evidently off of one of the live Gleason hours,
    meaning edited from the audio feed. You hear the sketch being introduced by
    Jack Lescoulie & the show opening with the show girls making the opening
    announcements. The other show is clearly from one of the TV scripts, but
    perhaps performed for radio or taken and edited from the live feed. One
    show is "Letter to the Boss," when Ralph writes an insulting letter to the
    President of the Gotham Bus Company. The other has Ralph suspicious that
    Alice has a lover because he's found some of Ed's old love letters to
    Trixie, stashed amongst recipes borrowed by Alice. The sound is very broad
    bandwidth ("Hi-Fi") with very, very, little noise. [As to the original
    broadcasts of the shows,] I believe it was carried on the entire CBS
    network, minus whatever affiliates might've chosen not to carry the show.

    "I'm presently negotiating with the Gleason estate to be able to issue
    these commercially. Hopefully, they'll thus be available at very moderate
    (typical retail CD cost) cost to everyone who might want to hear them,
    sooner than later."

    So, we now know that the disks actually exist. But, as always with
    discoveries like this, the answers only lead to more questions:

    * Was this a regular radio series? I've checked the NY Times for the dates
    listed and find no mention of them, but perhaps the dates reflect their
    recording date or issue date, rather than that of the broadcast. (This is
    inconsistant with almost every other 16" disk I've ever come across, but
    anything is possible.) It's also possible they simply didn't air on radio
    in New York. We do know that the dates on the disks differ from the
    original television broadcast date of at least one of the shows - "Letter
    to the Boss," which the DVD release states was broadcast live on November
    14, 1953.

    * Was this indeed a radio series at all? Having heard them, the owner
    believes it was, with the audio likely taken from the television
    broadcasts. It is known, however, that the audio portions of TV shows were
    sometimes recorded for purposes other than rebroadcast in other media.
    Personally, I trust the judgement of the owner but, having never heard the
    content of the disks myself, I cannot give an opinion one way or the other.
    There is an indication that one of the shows *was* edited for rebroadcast -
    or was it performed again for radio?

    * Could these be recordings made from the audio of the television broadcast
    for use by the AFRTS for the creation of an AFRTS-only radio series?

    * Given the content of the disks, we can probably assume that there were
    more than two episodes in this possible radio version since the dates are
    widely separated. Do others exist? Did others ever exist?

    I guess we'll have to wait for that upcoming commercial release to find out
    the answers to these questions, after which we'll probably have even more
    questions to ask.

    Geez, where's Mr. Keen when you need him?

    Harlan

    Harlan Zinck
    First Generation Radio Archives
    [removed]

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2002 18:30:02 -0400
    From: Tony Baechler <tony@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  The good side of mp3

    Hello all.  I admit that my attitude is probably not popular and I would be
    surprised if anyone agreed, but I think that mp3 is not all bad and at
    least two dealers indirectly owe me a thank you because I tried mp3 first.

    I first started listening to shows in the late 1980's, long before the
    Internet.  They were on a local radio station courtesy of "When Radio
    Was."  Because of the ads and show quality, I bought from Radio Spirits and
    got many show collections throughout most of the 1990's.  In 1998, I moved
    and could no longer afford to buy shows at all.  That is when I really
    discovered shows in mp3 and made a weekly tradition of getting what I could
    from the web.  In September 1999, I got cable and started sucking
    everything I could from the newsgroups.  This lsted until about February
    2001.  I have downloaded since but not nearly as often.

    Why did I stop?  Two reasons.  One is because I joined the First Generation
    Radio archives.  What caused me to join?  The fact that I could hear the
    09-16-43 Suspense show in mp3 taken from their CD.  I agree that it was too
    bad that someone posted it, but they did gain a member as a
    result.  Apparently that membership is now in dispute and I have had a
    great deal of hassle since, but I did some volunteer work for them also.

    Also, a series of about 8 shows were posted called, "Calling All Cars."  I
    listened to one and a half (I just never finished the other half) and
    decided that I wanted the full series on cassette.  As far as I know, most
    of the 298 shows in circulation still have not been posted in mp3.  I have
    bought lots and lots from Jerry Haendiges since and I recommend him
    highly.  He is also sitting on a lot of shows which he is reluctant to
    release because he knows they will show up in the newsgroups, including
    Fred Allen.  As an aside, I was stunned at the much, much better cassette
    quality compared to the mp3 shows I sampled.  You really do lose lots of
    sound by the high compression used.

    So, what was the point of my rambling?  Two things.  One is that mp3 can be
    a good thing and because of being able to hear samples I have purchased
    from dealers who I would have otherwise avoided.  The other, for me, is
    convenience.  It is easier for me to listen to a show now on mp3 rather
    than buy it and wait for it to get here.  I have shows which I ordered in
    April that have not arrived yet because the dealer was behind.  Nothing
    against that dealer, (I recommend him) but even though the sound is much
    worse I can hear mp3 now.  My dad, for example, likes OTR but would never
    pay for it.  I can share some of what I have downloaded with him and
    hopefully get him to finance a large-scale purchase one of these days.

    For those who are still reading and curious, I have shared very little of
    my mp3 collection.  One reason is limited disk space, another is drive
    crashes (it is amazing how quickly thousands of shows are lost this way but
    not on tape or CD) and another is because I do respect the time and costs
    involved in making shows available.  I have done some restoration and I
    agree with the $400 figure per show.  I have not bought any original ETs
    but I have audio production software and have priced noise reduction
    software.  It is very expensive, especially considering the constant gimme
    gimme attitude so common in the newsgroups.  Now when I finish listening to
    a show in mp3 I delete it with the exception of Christmas shows because I
    listen to some of those every year.  One final note.  Unless things have
    vastly changed since I quit sucking everything I could, I would guess that
    no more than 20,000 shows are available in mp3.  Do you realize that that
    is only half of what large collectors have?  Someone I know has 80,000
    shows.  Not counting the total crap floating around ([removed] .rm or RA files
    which have been converted, monitor buz/hum, low bitrates, rumble from using
    the microphone jack, etc.) I would guess that only about 1/10 of everything
    circulating is really available for free download.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2002 18:30:31 -0400
    From: Tony Baechler <tony@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Looking for shows

    Hello.  As a general inquiry and follow-up to my last post, I am looking to
    purchase two series of shows.  I will not accept mp3 CDs but I want the
    full, legal copies.  These are post-OTR so please respond privately.  Thanks.

    1. Star Wars from NPR.  Only audio CD is accepted.  There were three
    series, one for each movie.  I would also like audio dramas for episodes
    1-2 of the movies if they are out yet.  I know of a dealer who has them but
    I want to purchase from the proper owners, rightsholders, etc. at a
    reasonable price.  By the way, I have them in mp3 but I want legal copies.

    2. CBS Radio Mystery Theater.  Again, no mp3.  Tape is acceptable.  I know
    some people have them but again I want to buy from who is licensed to sell
    them at a reasonable price.

    Again, thanks and sorry for being off topic.  Please write privately.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2002 18:31:16 -0400
    From: Richard Novak <rnovak@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Re: OTR on MP3

    On Friday 31 May 2002 09:17,  Neal Ellis <bstenor@[removed];wrote:

>     I can't understand why someone in this day and age would want otr on
>     MP3.  CDR's are cheap enough (usually about .15 per disc on sale) and
>     they can give you full cd quality.  Wow that's about .07 per half hour
>     show.

    While I agree on priciple about the quality, I will simply state the reason I
    keep my collection in 32/22 mp3 format.
    I have well over 20,000 OTR shows on CD. At approximately 100 shows to a CD
    that translates to about 200 CDs. If I had been saving them in audio format,
    about 2 programs to a CD, then I would need 10,000 CDs.

    Now even if the CDs were free, the real problem is where do I store 10,000
    CDs??
    I already have about 14,000 books (softcover and hard cover) to deal with.
    Let's not even get into Pulps, Comic Books, Classical records, ten inch reel
    to reels, cassettes, two dogs and whatever else I might have forgotten.

    Let's see, 25 CDs take up a space approximately 10 x 5 x5 inches. Or 250
    cubic inches. 10,000/25 = 400. 400 x 250 = 100,000 cubic inches.

    That's almost 60 cubic feet of CDs. (It doesn't sound so bad if we just call
    it 2 cubic yards.)

    Anyway, that's why I favor mp3 formats.

    [removed]
    AKA [removed]

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2002 18:31:47 -0400
    From: Arcane <arcane@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  G Washington Coffee

    Michael Ogden stated:

>     Even though only one SHERLOCK HOLMES episode
>     circulates from the era of their sponsorship

    There must be a few more of these creeping out of the woodwork.  I have 2
    stories that feature G Washington coffee.  "The Final Problem" from may 10,
    1933, and "The Hebraic Breastplate". with Luis Hector palying Holmes on
    [removed],1934.

    Hopefully we will gain access to more of these fine stories in the [removed]

    Len M

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2002 18:34:07 -0400
    From: "m karp" <mkarp@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Product Brands
    X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative
    X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain

    It's funny the intimate  connections that we develop with certain brands. I
    speak of products that I remember from OTR ads as a child , and my children
    think that I am from another planet as most of the brands either do not exist
    anymore,or are not very well known. Alas some of the products still exist,but
    are not the quality products they used to be. Maxwell House is an example of
    this genre. I remember most though a few products that I just had to have as a
    kid becasue of ads, and when I tried them I couldn't believe that they were so
    awful,even though the ads made them sound so appealing. Kellogs Pep and
    Oveltine are examples. I also have a large bottle of Wildroot Crerem Oil that
    I bought,even though I do not use hair tonic. I saw the stuff, and started
    singing the Wilroot Song, and just bought the stuff for nostalgic reasons
    mike karp

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    End of [removed] Digest V2002 Issue #197
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