Subject: [removed] Digest V2003 #447
From: <[removed]@[removed]>
Date: 12/17/2003 8:36 PM

To: <[removed]@[removed];

    ------------------------------

                                The Old-Time Radio Digest!
                                  Volume 2003 : Issue 447
                             A Part of the [removed]!
                                     ISSN: 1533-9289

                                     Today's Topics:

      Re: Expressions used on OTR           [ Louis Giliberto <kd7hcw@[removed]; ]
      Re: A public service                  [ hal stone <dualxtwo@[removed]; ]
      Today in radio history                [ Joe Mackey <joemackey108@[removed] ]
      Re: Expressions used on OTR - Blackh  [ Joe Mackey <joemackey108@[removed] ]
      DVD too good to be true               [ "david rogers" <david_rogers@hotmai ]
      Re: Nostalgia Ain't What It Used To   [ Elizabeth McLeod <lizmcl@[removed] ]
      RE: Superman and Clayton "Bud" Colly  [ [removed]@[removed] ]
      Superman and Clayton "Bud" Collyer    [ "Michael Delisa" <mdelisa@bormarlaw ]
      Bud Collyer                           [ <otrbuff@[removed]; ]
      Costco question                       [ <nemesis@[removed]; ]
      Jonathan Thomas OTR                   [ "Kathleen Perry" <Bonka@[removed]; ]
      DVDs arrived                          [ Richard Carpenter <newsduck@[removed] ]
      Collyer led 3 lives                   [ "MICHAEL BIEL" <mbiel@[removed]; ]
      Re: 'Twas the Night Before Christmas  [ "MICHAEL BIEL" <mbiel@[removed]; ]
      Re: Superman and Clayton "Bud" Colly  [ Art Chimes <achimes@[removed]; ]
      Blackhawk radio show                  [ JOSEPH THOMS <jftesq@[removed]; ]
      12-18 births/deaths                   [ Ron Sayles <bogusotr@[removed]; ]
      Captain Midnight                      [ "JLF" <infom@[removed]; ]

    ______________________________________________________________________

        ADMINISTRIVIA:

        With all the excitement over the past week, I'm a little behind
        getting the Fundraiser Disc orders out. Orders from last week
        and this one are NOT out yet, but I'm hoping to get them out
        tomorrow, Friday at the latest. Apologies, and thanks.

        More on the excitement of the past week a little later, once I
        get more of the website kinks worked out. (The lists are working
        just peachie, so I can start attending to the web glitches.)  --cfs3

    ______________________________________________________________________

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 09:30:33 -0500
    From: Louis Giliberto <kd7hcw@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Re: Expressions used on OTR

    Ken asked:

>     Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 02:45:18 -0500
>     From: KENPILETIC@[removed]
>     Subject:  Expressions used on OTR - Blackhawk

>     He used the expression "Sacre Bleu !" whenever
>     anything unusual happened. Since this was in the
>     late fortys or early fifties, it couldn't be anything
>     "dirty",  but to this day, nobody has been able to
>     tell me what it means.  I  asked some

    French->speaking friends, and they translated the
    phrase >to "Sacred Blue" in English.

>     This doesn't mean anything to me.  Sacred Blue
>     what?  Does anybody know what the expression means
>     (besides Sacred Blue)?  Does anybody remember
>     Blackhawk?

    Sacre Bleu does translate literally to "Sacred Blue"
    which metaphorically means "By the blue heavens!" or
    to a Catholic Frenchman possibly, "By Mary's Blue
    Veil!" (her veil sometimes symbolically representing
    the heavens).

    I apologize in advance if the true meanings of these
    expressions offend anyone.  I offer them for
    completeness of explanation.

    "By the blue heavens" naturally means "Oh my God!"

    You may hear a Southern Italian (or Sicilian such as
    my father) saying "Marone!"  Which is slang dialect
    for "Maddona!" [removed], "By Mary!"  I heard that a lot as
    a teenager usually when I did something [removed]

    Back in a more genteel time no one would dare say
    these things directly. This type of "oath by metaphor"
    was fairly common.  For example, "Zounds!" actually
    means "By Zeus' Wounds!" which is a metaphor for "By
    Christ's Wounds!"  Also people would say "By Zeus!" or
    "By Jove!" instead of "By God!"  Obviously, Zeus as
    head of the Greek pantheon and Jove (Jupiter) as head
    of the Roman pantheon would represent God (and
    therefore Christ to a Christian).  Then of course
    there was "Ye Gods!" used by my 8th grade English
    teacher which is also a polite way of saying "By all
    the Saints in Heaven!"

    "Jinkies" made popular by Velma in Scooby Doo has no
    meaning that I know of.  But Scooby Doo was named
    after Frank Sinatra's practice to "scat" or sing
    "scoobie doobie doo" in Strangers In The Night.  Kinda
    funny.  BTW, Scooby is based on a Great Dane and is
    one of my son's favorite cartoons.

    Another interesting word/phrase is "hocus pocus".  If
    you look in a modern politically correct dictionary,
    it says something like "a fake Latin phrase used by
    jugglers."

    That's not completely true.  It was actually used by
    Protestants to mock the words a Latin Rite Roman
    Catholic priest says during the Mass when Catholics
    believe the bread and wine become the Body and Blood
    of Christ:  "Hoc est enim Corpus Meum" ("This
    therefore is My Body").  Protestants of course do not
    believe that transubstantiation occurs and poked fun
    at it.  "Hocus pocus" became the standard "magic
    words" out of this in modern parlance (thus used by
    jugglers who often did magic) and no longer has a
    derrogatory meaning in common usage.  So, you
    magicians can go nuts without offending anyone.

    Abracadabra is also referred to Latin in modern
    dictionaries, but actually come from Middle-Ages
    wizards who were working grimoires based on the
    Kaballah.  It comes from the name of a Gnostic deity
    -- Abraxas.  It was kind of a Middle-Ages Latin
    bastardization of Abraxas for use in amulets and
    stuff.

    There are other phrases and oaths that come from
    theological derivations such as "Holy Smokes!", etc.

    I've never heard Blackhawk (new to OTR) and I'm 34 so
    I wasn't around when most of these terms were in
    common usage (though I use "Holy Smokes!" myself), but
    sometimes High School Latin and a Jesuit education
    comes in handy :-)

    Hope this helps out and is at least found interesting
    if not actually correct.

    -Lou

    =====
    "That is not dead which can eternal lie,
    And with strange aeons even death may die."
    -- Abdul Alhazred ("The Necronomicon") via H. P. Lovecraft

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 10:16:09 -0500
    From: hal stone <dualxtwo@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Re: A public service

    Hi all, and our very best wishes to you for a Merry Christmas, a happy
    Hanukah, and a healthy, Happy New Year.

    That said, (sincerely, I might add), I just wish to bring some enlightenment
    to those in need.

    I just received a private E-mail (from a person who shall remain nameless),
    which said?

>     Where to Get  "Aw! Relax, Archie! Re-Laxx!.

>     Web site?  Mail?

>     Or used $100 bills in a brown envelope left in a hollow tree on the
>     last Monday before the first full moon?

    Apparently, I haven't mentioned the ordering info often enough, or, the
    "wise guy" (er! Discerning individual with extraordinary literary taste) is
    a brand spanking new "newbie" to the Digest.

    I have held off "pushing" book sales, not wishing to sound like some other
    people I know. (And I don't mean my buddies Martin Grams, Jim Cox and Chuck
    Schaden). :)

    But just in case anyone out there gives a rats patootie, here's the link to
    the web site that contains the ordering info for my book.

    [removed]

    All the best

    Hal & Dorothy Stone
    "Jughead" and Mrs. Jughead

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 10:16:18 -0500
    From: Joe Mackey <joemackey108@[removed];
    To: otrd <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Today in radio history

     From Those Were The Days --

    1936 - Ventriloquist Edgar Bergen kidded around with his pal, Charlie
    McCarthy (who was a bit wooden, we [removed]), for the first time on
    radio. The two debuted on The Rudy Vallee Show on NBC. Soon, Bergen
    became one of radio's hottest properties, and was called Vallee's
    greatest talent discovery.

    Joe

    --
    Visit my homepage:  [removed]~[removed]

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 10:16:54 -0500
    From: Joe Mackey <joemackey108@[removed];
    To: otrd <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Re: Expressions used on OTR - Blackhawk

      Ken Piletic asked --

>     He used the expression "Sacre Bleu !" whenever anything unusual
>     happened.

       It's a version of the French expression "sacred Dieu" (Holy God) much
    as English speakers would say "Good God".  Translated it would be "Holy
    Blue" similar to saying "Good Golly".
       Joe

    --
    Visit my homepage:  [removed]~[removed]

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 10:17:22 -0500
    From: "david rogers" <david_rogers@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  DVD too good to be true

    Fred Berney wrote:

>     But, to get back to what Martin said, unless these are commercially
>     replicated and authored DVDs, they can't have that much quality if they are
>     putting 5 or 6 hours of video on a single sided DVD.

    That is of course if quality is what you are looking for.  Of course with
    some things and with some situations the quality may not be the main
    concern.

    Love as always, David Rogers

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 11:06:18 -0500
    From: Elizabeth McLeod <lizmcl@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Re: Nostalgia Ain't What It Used To Be

    On 12/17/03 9:33 AM [removed]@[removed] wrote

>     For those of you who long to go
>     back to the days when everything was clean and nice, remember that
>     everything in the real world wasn't so clean and nice as it was portrayed
>     in mainstream OTR.

    Personally, as someone who's spent her entire adult life studying not
    just OTR, but the OTR Era itself, I can say with some confidence that
    it's a fascinating place to visit -- but as a woman, as an American, as a
    sentient human being, I certainly wouldn't have wanted to live there.

    I grew up listening to my grandparents' stories of life during the
    Depression -- they used to watch "The Waltons" and sneer at the idealized
    picture of rural poverty that that series presented. And having spent a
    lot of time digging into the realities of that particular period, I can
    point out that --

    As of 1939, less than half -- 43 per cent -- of American families fit the
    "traditional" pattern: working father, homemaker mother, and children.
    (1940 US Census)

    Approximately 17 to 18 per cent of new marriages ended in divorce during
    the 1930s. It was however far more difficult to *get* a divorce in 1939
    than it is today due to the nature of the divorce laws then on the books.
    Desertion was common as an alternative to legal divorce. (1941 World
    Almanac)

    Dad went to work -- but only if Dad was lucky enough to have a job. The
    national unemployment rate in 1939 stood at approximately 17 per cent,
    meaning about ten million people were jobless. Although there had been
    recovery since the 25 per cent unemployment rates of 1932-33, the
    Depression was still far from over, and the comfortable middle-class way
    of life one might associate with the fifties was unattainable for the
    average American family at the dawn of the forties. (1941 World Almanac)

    A middle-class income in 1939 would figure out to about $2000-$2500 per
    year, while the average family of four was getting by on approximately
    $1700. According to a January 1940 government study, nearly half of all
    American children were growing up in poverty, and one-third of all
    American families earned less than $780 per year. (1941 World Almanac)

    The childbirth death rate stood at 51 out of every 1000 births. (1941
    World Almanac)

    The nationwide murder rate in 1939 was [removed] murders per 100,000 people:
    approximately what it is today. (National Center for Health Statistics)

    [removed] per cent of Americans over the age of 25 had completed high school.
    (1940 US Census)

    4 per cent of Americans over the age of 25 had completed college. (1940
    US Census)

    [removed] per cent of American adults were illiterate. (1940 US Census)

    And yes, to get back to the original subject of this thread,  people
    swore. A lot. My grandfather was a time capsule of Depression-era slang,
    a substantial percentage of which was scatalogical, blasphemous, or
    obscene. Or all three. And hearing him carry on as he tried to start the
    lawn mower taught me some clever turns of phrase that would probably
    blister the ears of even the toughest old Army guys out there reading
    this. On the other hand, I never once heard him say "Golly," "Gee Whiz,"
    "Gosh All Fishhooks," or "Dad-rat It."

    Now, there's a lot that's unpleasant about the world we currently live in
    -- but it accomplishes nothing to use an idealized, mythologized past as
    an escape from the realities of the present, even though it's human
    nature to *want* that idealized past. As Benjamin Franklin once wrote,
    "The 'Golden Age' is never the Present Age."

    Elizabeth

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 11:06:48 -0500
    From: [removed]@[removed]
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  RE: Superman and Clayton "Bud" Collyer
    X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative
    X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain

    A 'few' years ago, on the Johnny Carson show, Bud Collyer, of game show
    fame, and a bunch of associates (I don't recall if any of them were from the
    original series) did a recreation of a Superman radio show from the forties.
    I was enthralled! It was the same voice I had remembered from so long ago. I
    know that many of the Carson Tonight shows are available on VHS; I suppose
    it's too much to hope for that show to be on one of them. Does anyone out
    there know???

    [removed] Druian

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    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 11:37:50 -0500
    From: "Michael Delisa" <mdelisa@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Superman and Clayton "Bud" Collyer
    X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative
    X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain

    Yes, they are one and the same.  His son, Michael Collyer, is a
    well-respected entertainment lawyer.

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    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 12:10:55 -0500
    From: <otrbuff@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Bud Collyer

    David Martin inquired if the voice playing Superman on radio was the same
    guy who hosted TV's To Tell the Truth years later.  Very much so.  In fact,
    Clayton (Bud) Collyer was a perennial resident on roughly four dozen
    broadcast series, to wit:

    ANNOUNCER:
    The Benny Goodman Show
    Big Sister
    The Cavalcade of America
    The Guiding Light
    The Goldbergs
    House in the Country
    Mary Small
    The Philip Morris Playhouse
    The Raleigh Room
    Road of Life
    The Sheaffer Review
    Silver Theater
    Stage Door Canteen
    The Story of Mary Marlin
    Truth or Consequences
    Quiz of Two Cities

    HOST:
    By Popular Demand
    Listening Post

    ACTOR:
    Abie's Irish Rose
    The Adventures of Superman
    Chick Carter, Boy Detective
    Chips Davis, Commando
    High Places
    Hillbilly Heart Throbs
    Joyce Jordan, M. D.
    Just Plain Bill
    Kate Hopkins, Angel of Mercy
    Kitty Foyle
    Life Can Be Beautiful
    The Man I Married
    Pretty Kitty Kelly
    Terry and the Pirates
    Young Widder Brown

    MASTER OF CEREMONIES/QUIZMASTER:
    Beat the Clock
    Break the Bank
    Bride and Groom
    On Your Mark
    Three for the Money
    Times a-Wastin'
    Winner Take All

    TV EMCEE:
    Beat the Clock
    Break the Bank
    Feather Your Nest
    Masquerade Party
    Number Please
    This Is the Missus
    To Tell the Truth

    TV VOICE-OVER:
    Superman

    --from The Great Radio Audience Participation Shows (MacFarland, 2001)

    Jim Cox

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 12:11:05 -0500
    From: <nemesis@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Costco question

    A while back someone posted that OTR boxes were available at Costco.  I
    can't find them at our local store (Bakersfield, CA) or on the website.
    What am I missing in the search? (Reply off-list, if you'd like)
    Linda T.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 12:28:53 -0500
    From: "Kathleen Perry" <Bonka@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Jonathan Thomas OTR
    X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative
    X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain

    I too enjoyed the Cinnamon Bear serial but never heard it as a kid in the
    50'[removed] it got old hat by then. Thanks Kermyta! for the Heads Up on the
    OTR Jonathan Thomas and His Christmas on the Moon.  I am always looking for
    shows such as these for the grandkids.

    Talking about the DVD compression, sound quality etc brings up a question
    which may be for another type of "list",  so forgive me, but this is the only
    one I have just recently subscribed to and the topic has probably been beaten
    into the ground here before so would you please just answer me [removed]
    not if you think it will help others.

    What is the most efficient way to copy MP3 OTR shows to CD's when you have a
    serial such as the Cinnamon Bear.  It took 4 disks using Windows Media/Roxio
    to copy the serial.  Was it just my unfamiliarity with the software or could I
    have gotten all 25 episodes on one CD? I know you folks are "pros" at this by
    now so ....suggestions please I have many more to do. I have noticed that
    those who sell CD's of the radio shows can put alot of episodes on [removed]
    is it done?

    Thanks in advance!!
    Kathleen Perry
    bonka@[removed]

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    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 12:38:30 -0500
    From: Richard Carpenter <newsduck@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  DVDs arrived

    For those who have asked or commented, my $[removed] "50
    Classic Movies" DVD set arrived the other day. They
    are double-sided DVDs, and not DVD-Rs, usually with
    two movies on each side. I briefly previewed about 10
    films, and found the quality ranged from quite good
    (the silent "Paleface" with Buster Keaton to fair (an
    East Side Kids saga) to, in just one instance
    ("Medicine Man" with Jack Benny), not good. However,
    at this price I wasn't expecting meticulous
    restorations and think that even "Medicine Man" will
    be watchable, at least once.

    Of course, my standards may not be that high, seeing
    that my introduction to some of these titles came in
    the early 1950s on a tiny black-and-white TV, enlarged
    by a magnifying glass, and (briefly) colorized by a
    transparent, tricolor, stick-on screen. My  radio, on
    the other hand, came in loud and clear (although there
    was that AM static ...).

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 12:53:13 -0500
    From: "MICHAEL BIEL" <mbiel@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Collyer led 3 lives

    David <dbmartin5@[removed]; asked if Clayton "Bud" Collyer was radio's
    Superman and the host of the TV game show "To Tell The Truth."  Yes he was
    the original host on that program, and earlier he was the host of TV's Beat
    the Clock.  Both of these have had extensive runs recently on Game Show
    Network.  He also was the voice of Superman in the 1940s theatrical
    cartoons, and these are quite readily available on DVD.  However there is
    no relationship between him and Clayton "Bud" Goulding, who in reality was
    Ray Goulding of Bob and Ray.  He was the genial announcer of "Ladies Grab
    Your Seats"  on the RCA Victor Living Stereo LP "Bob and Ray On A Platter."

    Michael Biel  mbiel@[removed]

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 13:26:19 -0500
    From: "MICHAEL BIEL" <mbiel@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Re: 'Twas the Night Before Christmas

    I've received a report back from Peter T. Kiefer of the Fred Waring archive
    Fred Waring's America at Penn State.  You might as well call off the search
    for a more complete recording of the Ken Darby arrangement of "'Twas the
    Night Before Christmas"  He reports:  "I know the actual poem had more
    text, however Ken Darby, who wrote the music decided to not use all the
    text. We have a copy of his original manuscript. So the Waring version is
    as complete as Ken Darby wrote it and runs @ 6:50."

    So, not only does the sheet music of the arrangement omit some of the poem,
    the original handwritten manuscript also does. (Should it be renamed "'Twas
    Most of the Night Before Christmas"?) :-)   Of course, someone could decide
    to augment that arrangement with some inclusions and make a new recording,
    but apparently nobody has yet seen a need to do so.

    Michael Biel  mbiel@[removed]

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 22:30:55 -0500
    From: Art Chimes <achimes@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Re: Superman and Clayton "Bud" Collyer

    To answer David's question, Bud Collyer (1908-1969, born as Clayton
    Johnson Heermance, Jr.) was indeed *both* radio's Man of Steel and the
    mild-mannered host of To Tell The Truth and several other quiz shows.

    According to [removed], he reprised his Superman role in the animated
    New Adventures of Superman (1966-69), playing opposite Joan Alexander,
    who was Lois Lane on radio also.

    Bud Collyer was educated as a lawyer, but he left the law after a couple
    of years. He was heard on numerous other radio programs, including
    Abie's Irish Rose, Renfrew of the Mounted, The March of Time and The
    Cavalcade of America.

    Regards
    Art

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 22:31:02 -0500
    From: JOSEPH THOMS <jftesq@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Blackhawk radio show

    Was there a "Blackhawk" radio show?  I know there was
    a movie serial.  If there was one, any information
    would be greatly appreciated as "Blackhawk" was one of
    my favorite comics.

    Happy holidays,
    Joe Thoms

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 22:31:12 -0500
    From: Ron Sayles <bogusotr@[removed];
    To: Olde Tyme Radio List <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  12-18 births/deaths

    December 18th births

    12-18-1864 - S. Parkes Cadman - Wellington, Shropshire, England - d. 7-12-1936
    preacher: "National Radio Pulpit"
    12-18-1885 - J. Anthony Smythe - San Francisco, CA - d. 3-20-1966
    actor: "Carefree Carnival"; Henry Barbour "One Man"s Family"
    12-18-1890 - Edwin H. Armstrong - NYC - d. 1-31-1954
    inventor: FM radio
    12-18-1910 - Abe Burrows - Brooklyn, NY - d. 5-17-1985
    writer: "Abe Burrows Show"; "Danny Kaye Show"; "Duffy"s Tavern"
    12-18-1913 - Lynn Bari - Roanoke,  VA - d. 11-20-1989
    actress: "Dan Carson"
    12-18-1916 - Betty Grable - St. Louis, MO - d. 7-2-1973
    actress: "Hollywood Showcase"; "Screen Guild Theatre"; "So You Want to Lead a
    Band"
    12-18-1917 - Ossie Davis - Cogdell, GA
    actor: "Cavalcade of America"

    December 18th deaths

    01-14-1915 - Mark Goodson - Sacremento, CA - d. 12-18-1992
    producer, director: "Portia Faces Life"; "Stop the Music"
    06-14-1919 - Sam Wanamaker - Chicago, IL - d. 12-18-1993
    actor: Ellis Smith "Guiding Light"; "Lone Journey"
    06-25-1903 - Anne Revere - NYC - d. 12-18-1990
    actress: "Cavalcade of America"
    10-07-1926 - Diana Lynn - Los Angeles, CA - d. 12-18-1971
    actress: "Theatre Guild on the Air"

    Ron Sayles
    Milwaukee, Wisconsin

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 22:31:21 -0500
    From: "JLF" <infom@[removed];
    To: "[removed]" <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Captain Midnight

    I am looking for some mp3's of Captain Midnight from the 1946 thru 1949 era.

    JLF

    --------------------------------
    End of [removed] Digest V2003 Issue #447
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