Subject: [removed] Digest V2003 #18
From: "OldRadio Mailing Lists" <[removed]@[removed];
Date: 1/14/2003 7:05 AM

To: <[removed]@[removed];

    ------------------------------

                                The Old-Time Radio Digest!
                                  Volume 2003 : Issue 18
                             A Part of the [removed]!
                                     ISSN: 1533-9289

                                     Today's Topics:

      ABC and Mutual                        [ Paulurbahn@[removed] ]
      Why I love Old Time Radio             [ "Li'l Reader Books" <lilreader2@yah ]
      RA to WAV                             [ "Sandra Skuse" <sskuse@[removed]; ]
      wcky in cinncinati 1950,s             [ sweetnanajean@[removed] ]
      Jolson                                [ lawrence albert <albertlarry@yahoo. ]
      Howard Blue and Censorship            [ bryanh362@[removed] ]
      Guiding Light; Radio/TV Simulcasts    [ Mark J Cuccia <mcuccia@[removed]; ]
      Lorne Green                           [ "George Coppen*" <gacoppen@[removed] ]
      Real Audio files                      [ "OTR Man" <otr_man@[removed]; ]
      RE "the reasons shows often don't ge  [ "Ian Grieve" <austotr@[removed]. ]
      A Little Island                       [ "Stephen A Kallis, Jr." <skallisjr@ ]
      Whistling in the dark                 [ otrbuff@[removed] ]
      Cincy convention                      [ danhughes@[removed] ]

    ------------------------------

    Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 23:11:11 -0500
    From: Paulurbahn@[removed]
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  ABC and Mutual

    In a message dated 1/12/03 12:49:30 PM Eastern Standard Time,
    [removed]@[removed] writes:

>     "NBC and CBS simply *had* to be doing something right.  Such
>     acknowledgment, and the increase in their number of outlets, was a silver
>     lining in an era when so much seemed to be working against the aural
>     medium.
>     Surely this was welcome news to some fatigued and often maligned national
>     radio executives."
>      Jim Cox

    I hate to disagree with Jim Cox on this one, but I feel he is totally in left
    field here. The reason NBC and CBS held onto their stations was because these
    were the two largest TV networks and most of the radio stations had gone into
    television. I offer anyone on this list from a major city and in the 50s and
    60s to think. If the local TV affilitae was NBC then they usually had an NBC
    radio affilitae (normally colocated in the same building). It had nothing to
    do with radio business.

    In Jim's figures Mutual had over 100 more affilites than the closest other
    network at any time. Mutual held on to many stations because they had no TV
    network. They advertised on the air, "Mutual the service to independet
    staions." meanning no TV so the had the potential for more stations because
    there were more radio than TV stations.

    Finally, ABC pulled ahead of Mutual as the largest radio network in the late
    60s when they introduced 4 networks in one. They fed at least 4 newscasts
    (:00, :15, :30 and :55) every hour the newscasts were formated to fit certain
    radio formats and entertainment news was was reported along with the
    disasters of the day. When they introduced news that matched formats, even
    many of the radio stations owned by TV companies, jumped from their network
    TV affilitates to ABC.

    The Monitor program was a true gem in late 60s radio, but honestly it only
    worked on conservative stations operated by TV affilitaes wanting cheap
    programming for the non commerical weekends. In addition it had to be an MOR
    (Middle of the Road) formatted station, as Country, Rock and Soul (then
    called R&B) radio outlets would not touch Monitor.

    Sorry, NBC picking up 30 affilites in 10 years to finally break the 200
    station mark is not significant when MBS had more than double that even after
    loosing 100 affilitates.

    The truth is in the figures.

    Paul Urbahns

    ------------------------------

    Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 23:11:24 -0500
    From: "Li'l Reader Books" <lilreader2@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Why I love Old Time Radio

    Hello again,  I know my history with OTR is very vague,  but I am coming
    to the point where I love collecting OTR,  I am like the questions being
    asked and answered on the group at this time,  allot of the show are very
    new to me.  Thanks everyone for the in site you have give, it helps me to
    know what is going on,  and what shows were very popular.  Well I have
    come to love collecting so much,  I have created a Master list of all my
    shows I have collected,  and created a web site to let anyone who would
    want to see my collectiuon can,  If you want a copy of any shows, just let
    me know which cd it is on.  Also I have many ways of giving you a
    particular show if you want it,  just e-mail me and let me know how to
    send them.   The web site is [removed] .  I love this and hope
    everyone has a wonderful time collecting just like I do.

    -lilreader

    ------------------------------

    Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 23:29:55 -0500
    From: "Sandra Skuse" <sskuse@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  RA to WAV

    On 8 January Paul Urbahns (Paulurbahn@[removed]) asked if there is a way to
    convert Real Audio files to ordinary WAV files.

    Go to [removed] and paste the following text (inverted commas
    included) into the search box :  "ra to wav"

    This will give you about 500 results. Top of the list on my search on this
    today was the RA to Wav Recorder, which is at at
    [removed]. I've not used it myself. I believe
    though it's suitable for Win 95/98/ME.

    I'm aware there are a lot of conflicting views as to which is the *best*
    converter, but I don't have enough experience of RealAudio to venture an
    opinion myself.

    Sandra

    Sandra Skuse - Maintaining the homepage of English OTR comedian Jimmy Clitheroe
    website: [removed]

    ------------------------------

    Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 23:46:34 -0500
    From: sweetnanajean@[removed]
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  wcky in cinncinati 1950,s
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    ok guys there used to be a music show on WCKY at night in the 1950,s with
    wayne somethimg that sold harmonica,s and red top baby chicks  what was that
    show?I would lay in my room in rural ga and tune my halacrafters radio to the
    am band and go to sleep listening. if anyone rembers please post or send to me
    at sweetnanajean@[removed] thanks your old buddy the ALABAMA FLASH

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    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 08:20:33 -0500
    From: lawrence albert <albertlarry@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Jolson

      The late play/screen/radio writer Edmund Morris
    passed on a Jolson story to me shortly before he died.
    Ed said that sometime in the 30's he was in New York
    and decided to take in a performance of a friend and
    fellow playwrites play being done in yiddish. He
    didn't say which one. Anyway, Ed managed to get a good
    seat, and as he settled back two men moved into the
    seats directly in front of him. One of the men was Al
    Jolson. Ed said he was torn between being a gentleman,
    and letting Jolie enjoy the play, and being the fan
    and telling the great one just how much he enjoyed his
    work. He was the gentleman.
      Ed knew that in the first act of the piece there was
    a line that went something like "Who do you think I
    am, Al Jolson?" As the time for that particular line
    drew near, Ed said he watched to see if Jolie would
    get a laugh out of it. Instead no sooner was the line
    said, then Jolson turn to his companion and, according
    to Ed, in all seriousnes asked "How do you think they
    knew I was here."

                     Larry Albert

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 08:22:07 -0500
    From: bryanh362@[removed]
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Howard Blue and Censorship

    Howard writes in regard to Arthur Laurents:

>     he attended a Radio
>     Writers Guild meeting where he argued in favor of of a law that was being
>     considered in Congress to make it easier for soldiers to vote. At that time,
>     because so many young soldiers were supporters of the New Deal, Southern
>     Democrat and Republican politicians had opposed the bill.

    First off its kind of a  leap in discussion to go from censorship issues
    regarding off color humor and into
    the blacklist again but aside from that I have a question.
    Not that I doubt you (because really I have no idea ) but I must know .Where
    did you get your information regarding the intent of the congressmen? You say
    they opposed the bill you speak of . However, you also give a reason as to
    why they opposed it . Is that strictly conjecture on your part or do you have
    a source?

>     As a
>     consequence of Laurents' outspokenness, a right-wing member of the Guild
>     reported Laurents as a Communist, and the amount of censorship Laurents had
>     to deal with was increased.

    How do we know this? I mean who was that member ? , How do we know who it was
    that reported Laurents? How do we know he was right wing?  How do we know
    Laurents  was reported at all?   And specifically  what kind of censorship
    are we talking about exactly ?

>     For this and similar reasons, Laurents was listed in RED CHANNELS which
>     implied that he was a Communist.

    Did Red Channels actually indicate the reasons individuals were listed in its
    pages? If not how would one know why they were listed in the publication ?

    I am sure that in 1950s America the fact that Laurents was a homosexual
    didn't help his cause much either.

    Thanks for any info.

>     Howard Blue
>     [removed]
>     ". . . .  masterly,  . . .  . . . Blue stands with Barnouw and Dunning,
>     and that is high rank indeed."
>                         Norman Corwin

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 08:22:44 -0500
    From: Mark J Cuccia <mcuccia@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Guiding Light; Radio/TV Simulcasts

    I don't know if these questions have already been asked/answered here
    before or [removed]

    In January 1937, Irna Philips' "The Guiding Light" premiered on
    NBC Radio (I think the RED network) out of (WMAQ) Chicago.

    It's first sponsor was Proctor & Gamble's "White Naptha Soap", a laundry
    soap. I've never heard of it, and I doubt that P&G still make it.

    Many radio programs (and well into the TV years, many TV Soap Operas) were
    actually *owned and produced* by the sponsor, rather than by the network.
    In the TV years, most TV programs are owned/produced by a motion-picture
    company's TV subsidiary (MCA/Universal, Paramount, Warner Brothers, MGM,
    etc), sometimes an 'independent' producer (Desilu, 4-Star, Filmways, etc)
    or "the network itself" thru its production subsidiary, or a combination
    of the above. But many TV soaps of the 1950s thru 70s were actually
    *owned/produced* by Proctor & Gamble, Colgate Palmolive, American Home
    Products, etc. I know that "The Guiding Light" on TV has always been owned
    and produced by P&G, even though CBS-TV supplied studio, camera, taping,
    etc. facilities. I would assume that P&G owned the series since day-one
    on radio in 1937, especially since the primary product (White Naptha
    laundry soap) was one of P&G's.

    However, I recently discovered, that during the "War Years" (1941-46),
    "The Guiding Light" on NBC (Red) was sponsored by General Mills Cereals.
    I heard a clip from an episode from 1945, and the product on the
    commercial was Gen. Mills' Cheerios! Also, "Guiding Light" at that time
    was part of an hour of four 15-min soaps known collectively as "The
    General Mills Hour". I forget the names of the other two 15-min soaps
    following, but the fourth and final quarter-hour of that "General Mills
    Hour" on NBC (Red) was called "The Betty Crocker Program". Of course, the
    'Betty Crocker' trademark is owned by General Mills for their cake mixes
    and such.

    Was "The Betty Crocker Program" a serialized 'soap'? Or was it some kind
    of cooking instruction program?

    When "The Guiding Light" moved to CBS Radio in 1947, it was now sponsored
    by Duz soap (Laundry? Dish? I think that P&G used the name 'Duz' for both
    types of soap). And 'Duz' was from Proctor & Gamble.

    Did Irna Philips and/or NBC or P&G temporarily sell/transfer rights of
    ownership from P&G (White Naptha Soap) over to General Mills (for
    Cheerios) during the "war years", and then [removed] sell/transfer the
    rights back to P&G in 1947?

    Did P&G 'lease out' ownership or production to [removed] (With P&G still
    actually 'owning' the series all along?)

    Also, "The Guiding Light" began on the CBS Television Network in 1952, as
    15-min's. (It didn't expand to 30-min's until [removed]! It went to a full
    hour in the mid-1970s and still is on today). However, the radio version
    continued to be in production or airing until sometime in 1956, on the
    CBS Radio Network.

    So, from 1952-56, during the 'overlap' years, I do understand that the
    story was the *same* for both radio and TV. [removed] was the radio version
    simply a live audio simulcast of the live TV program (a-la 1950s Arthur
    Godfrey?) Was the radio version a tape or transcription of the audio of
    the live TV version, just fed over the CBS Radio Network later that same
    afternoon (similar to Art Linkletter's Housepart in the 1960s -- where the
    CBS Radio edition was an audio soundtrack of the CBS-TV edition, although
    I don't know if it was the same episode each day for Linkletter in the
    1960s). Or was the CBS Radio edition of "The Guiding Light" from 1952-56
    a separate *performance* live on CBS Radio (at a different time than the
    live CBS-TV performance/feed)? Or maybe by the 1950's, the actors
    pre-transcribed or pre-taped audio editions some days in advance? But with
    the same stories of what they were performing live on CBS-TV, to be fed
    down the CBS Radio Network on the same days that their live edition was to
    be performed?

    And *IF* the program was an actual (live) SIMULCAST, a-la-Godfrey in the
    1950's, how did it 'outcue'? Godfrey was simulcast on CBS Radio *AND* TV
    LIVE for most of the 1950's on his morning "Arthur Godfrey Time" as well
    as some of his evening prime-time programs. For the most part, his morning
    program had an extra 'radio-only' half-hour after an hour of radio+TV
    simulcasts. But I seem to think that he himself 'outcued' each
    quarter-hour segment (even on the four simulcast segments) as:

    "This is the CBS Radio Network"

    (usually humorously pronounced in the 'Godfrey style' as:
    Dis is da C-B-S Way-dee-oh Net-woyk)

    But the 'eye' would pop-up on TV, with the lettering 'CBS Telvision
    Network'....

    In 1951, CBS stopped saying "This is CBS, the Columbia Broadcasting
    System" as its outcue on radio and/or TV and started outcuing as 'Radio'
    on the radio network, and as 'Television' on the Television Network
    (and 1951 was also the year that the 'eye' became the new logo for the
    TV side of CBS).

    But how would networks outcue on (live) simulcasts during the 1950's?

    Mark J. Cuccia
    mcuccia@[removed]

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 08:22:52 -0500
    From: "George Coppen*" <gacoppen@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Lorne Green
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    Did anyone see and happen to tape Lorne Green being interviewed on a show
    called Directors, the show was on TV Friday night at 7pm Central time zone on
    the Arts & Entertainment channel. If so would you please drop me a line as I
    would love to get a copy of it. I stumbled into it while flipping channels and
    managed to tape about 20 minutes of the interview but would like to get the
    whole thing.
    While talking about him, would anyone happen to have any news broadcasts or
    shows that he starred in.
    George    gacoppen@[removed]

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    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 08:23:25 -0500
    From: "OTR Man" <otr_man@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Real Audio files

    To convert RA (Real Audio) files to a more user-friendly format, such as wav
    or mp3, there are various options for Win 95/98/ME users.

    You can do the conversion using Winamp. Put a suitable Winamp input plugin
    (either [removed] or [removed]) into Winamp's Plugins sub-directory, and
    in "Preferences" select the output plugin [removed] (which needs
    [removed] to be present in C:Program FilesWinamp). Then play the RA
    file using Winamp. The RA file will be (silently) recorded to your hard
    disk, as an mp3 file.

    Alternatively, you can use Total Recorder. This program captures the output
    from your PC's sound card. You play the RA file using any program (eg Real
    Player or Winamp) and record the sound as a wav file, by starting up Total
    Recorder and hitting its 'record' button. Total Recorder can, subsequently,
    convert the completed wav file to mp3 format (again, it needs [removed] to
    achieve this).

    There is also the less well-known program "RA to WAV Converter", which can
    take an RA file and convert it to wav.

    However, there are no compression benefits in converting an RA file to mp3.
    Both are highly compressed formats, and the file size will be about the same
    for an mp3 file at 33/22 as for a typical RA file streamed at 33Kbps.

    A common complaint is that RA files sound like ****, but so will mp3 files
    if you over-compress them. You can get good quality RA, provided it isn't
    compressed down to 8kbps or 11kbps, when it will sound (of course) quite
    dreadful. MP3 will sound equally bad at that over-compressed level. In both
    cases, too much of the sound has been thrown away.

    The streaming BBC7 web station at
    [removed]*/ev7/live24/bbc7/[removed] is an
    indication of how good streaming RA can sound, even at 33Kbps on a 55K modem
    connection.

    Streaming RA can be recorded by the StreamBox VCR program, version [removed] Beta
    [removed] by FlyingRaichu (setting its Connections option to "33K Modem" will
    cause the stream to be recorded at a very reasonable standard MP3 quality of
    33Kbps) for later playback, to overcome the "stuttering" effect which is the
    main drawback of internet streaming.

    but RA and MP3 both share an advantage over WAV, in the ability to reduce
    unmanageably large, 300MB+, WAV files to 7MB (at standard 33/22
    compression), without destroying the sound quality.

    Since you can now enhance Winamp with the DFX plugin, which can improve the
    perceived audio quality of both MP3's and RA files, there is no real need to
    convert RA files to MP3. They certainly won't sound better as a result, and
    the file size won't be any smaller.

    Better to spend your money on the DFX plugin than on conversion software,
    IMHO.

    Ed

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 08:24:35 -0500
    From: "Ian Grieve" <austotr@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  RE "the reasons shows often don't get
     released"

    In issue 17 David Rogers asked:

>     1 - Do people only produce and release things for a financial reason?

    Not always David, but it does seem to be prevelent these days to try and
    make money out of a relationship instead of celebrating that person's
    achievements and "spreading the word".  One of the reasons I enjoyed Hal's
    Book is that he resisted the temptation to just write about himself.  He
    introduced people to us that may never have had a chance to be introduced to
    us before.

    If I had a famous relative I would take pride in others knowing about them,
    I couldn't see myself putting a price on that.  Its different if the Sons,
    Daughters, Nieces, Nephews, 2nd Cousins 10 times removed, actually did
    something themselves like be 'hands on' in the restoration process or sat
    down and wrote a book in celebration, but to make it purely a commercial
    process loses something.

>     2 - Do organizations like the BBC continue to produce things and release
>     them on tape and CD at such a great loss?

    lol yeah right!!

>     3 - When people buy OTR items, how many times are the profits going to
>     dealers and how many times do they go to the artists?

    Yes interesting question.  Carl Amari was widely hated, but it would appear
    that he may at least have been returning something to some of the artists.
    Maybe other Dealers were as well and have chosen to keep mum about it.  But
    I would like to know more about that aspect.  Hal once indicated no
    residuals came his way even from Radio $ sales.  Maybe once some legitimate
    residual system was set up, the hobby may be able to jump up a notch and
    move out of the shade.

>     I don't want to cause a fight, certainly not over money.  However, I find it
>     rather sad when people keep saying that things aren't done because of the
>     money. I realise that this will probably recieve a negative response, but
>     this is a hobby for me because I enjoy listening to old radio shows.

    No reason for it to cause a fight, I think the questions were interesting.
    But you need to listen to more OTR because England has gone back to losing
    in the Cricket.

    Ian Grieve
    (the comments about Hal's Book were entirely unsolicited and unpaid (the
    cheapskate))

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 08:25:07 -0500
    From: "Stephen A Kallis, Jr." <skallisjr@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  A Little Island

    Chris Holm, speaking of censorship, notes,

>     Now, I know that the censors didn't like to use words for some body
>     parts.  Would belly have been one?

    Yes.  And one example of how silly that seemed was pointed out on the
    Jack Benny show.  At a time when the stage musical South Pacific was at
    its height, Benny pointed out that because of the censors (I don't recall
    his exact word for them) one of the songs from the musical would have to
    be called "Stomach Hai."  [For the younger crowd, the original song was
    "Bali Hai."]

    Stephen A. Kallis, Jr.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 08:25:27 -0500
    From: otrbuff@[removed]
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Whistling in the dark

    Barbara Watkins wonders just how many whistlers there were for The
    Whistler.  My research turned up two names, Owen James and Dorothy
    Roberts.  There could have been more.  The whistling melody was
    considered quite difficult to master.  Musical artist Wilbur Hatch was
    convinced that 19 out of 20 individuals could never perform it correctly.
     A total of 37 notes comprised the full repertoire--13 at the start, 11
    as a tale began, 13 at the end.  Now see if that mournful whistling sound
    runs through your mind the rest of today.

    Jim Cox

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 08:25:54 -0500
    From: danhughes@[removed]
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Cincy convention

    Questions about the Cincinnati convention?

    My web site has the information available so far about this year's
    convention, and reports and photos from the last several conventions:

    [removed]~dan

    You'll see several links to the various reports right there on my home
    page.  Enjoy!

    ---Dan Hughes

    --------------------------------
    End of [removed] Digest V2003 Issue #18
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