Subject: [removed] Digest V2003 #33
From: "OldRadio Mailing Lists" <[removed]@[removed];
Date: 1/22/2003 7:12 PM

To: <[removed]@[removed];

    ------------------------------

                                The Old-Time Radio Digest!
                                  Volume 2003 : Issue 33
                             A Part of the [removed]!
                                     ISSN: 1533-9289

                                     Today's Topics:

      #OldRadio IRC Chat this Thursday Nig  [ lois@[removed] ]
      Adam and Eve sketch                   [ gad4@[removed] ]
      'Ozzie & Harriet' on Radio & TV       [ Mark J Cuccia <mcuccia@[removed]; ]
      Re: Gildersleeve Bulletin             [ Elizabeth McLeod <lizmcl@[removed] ]
      Newcomer to OTR needs help            [ John McCourt <jop_mccourt@[removed] ]
      People accents and sounds of the gol  [ Jerry White <phantom_ace_x1@[removed] ]
      Re: Gildy war bulletin                [ Dixonhayes@[removed] ]
      Adam and Eve skit                     [ "Martin Grams, Jr." <mmargrajr@hotm ]
      Re: Great Gildersleeve war bulletin   [ SanctumOTR@[removed] ]
      Richard and Jack                      [ "William Harper" <whhsa@[removed] ]
      re: Bickersons                        [ bloodbleeds@[removed] ]
      Gildersleeve War Bulletin             [ William L Murtough <k2mfi@[removed]; ]
      Theater 10:30, and other Canadian sh  [ passage@[removed] ]
      Re: War Bulletins                     [ hal stone <dualxtwo@[removed]; ]

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 04:52:03 -0500
    From: lois@[removed]
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  #OldRadio IRC Chat this Thursday Night!

    A weekly [removed]

    For the best in OTR Chat, join IRC (Internet Relay Chat), StarLink-IRC
    Network, the channel name is #OldRadio.  We meet Thursdays at 8 PM Eastern
    and go on, and on! The oldest OTR Chat Channel, it has been in existence
    over six years, same time, same channel!

    Our numerous "regulars" include one of the busiest "golden years" actors in
    Hollywood; a sound man from the same era who worked many of the top
    Hollywood shows; a New York actor famed for his roles in "Let's Pretend" and
    "Archie Andrews;" owners of some of the best OTR sites on the Web;
    maintainer of the best-known OTR Digest (we all know who he is)..........

    and Me

    Lois Culver
    KWLK Longview Washington (Mutual) 1941-1944)
    KFI Los Angeles (NBC) 1944 - 1950
    and widow of actor Howard Culver

    (For more info, contact lois@[removed])

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 11:01:09 -0500
    From: gad4@[removed]
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Adam and Eve sketch

    Since there were other "sketches" she did on the Chase and Sandborn show
    prior, its possible that this was just a pot waiting to boil and the
    decision was based on her history in broadcasting and not just an isolated
    incident.

    Wheather the following has an impact on the decision I cant say but in that
    time period, the general public treated the Bible with more respect than
    they do today.  One thing that stood out to me about that sketch was that it
    was making fun of a bible story and portraying something sacred to many in a
    disrespectful way. Also, the timing of the episode of being less than two
    weeks before christmas, didnt make it the ideal "christmas special".  That,
    combined with Mae West's history of suggestive material could have made it
    the straw to break the camels back.  No one uses this as a reason, but its
    possible that this factor made it the ultimate leudness to some causing
    people to focus on her career in broadcasting and make a decision.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 11:02:37 -0500
    From: Mark J Cuccia <mcuccia@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  'Ozzie & Harriet' on Radio & TV

    Derek Tague wrote:

>     Not counting the two-season overlap (simulcasts? re-adapted TV scripts
>     from 1952-54), "Ozzie & Harriet" ran an astounding 22 years!

    During the last two radio seasons / first two TV seasons -- 1952/53 and
    1953/54, the radio version of "Ozzie and Harriet" was still a separate
    radio production/broadcast, a-la- Jack Benny, Dragnet, Gunsmoke, Have Gun
    Will Travel, Suspense, etc. and most other programs which had radio and TV
    'overlap'. It was not a simulcast, because the radio version aired over
    the ABC Radio Network at a different time than the TV version aired over
    the ABC Television Network. But it also was a distinct radio edition --
    I don't think that it was 'reruns' of previous radio broadasts except
    *maybe* it could have been some occasional 're-performed' scripts of radio
    or TV scripts -- and it was *NOT* an audio soundtrack of any TV episode's
    films.

    I have seen some tapes of original 16-mm filmed TV episodes of "Ozzie and
    Harriet", with original commercials, etc. Such 'complete' episodes from
    1952/53 and 1953/54 (the radio/TV 'overlap' years) usually have an
    audio-over announcement by announcer Vern Smith in the closing
    credits/theme song:

    "Remember that a completely DIFFERENT episode of the 'Adventures of Ozzie
    and Harriet' can still be heard on RADIO! Check your local listings for
    time and local ABC radio station".

    Which reminds me -- I recently saw a tape of a filmed/kinescope of an
    originally telecast-live episode of Jack Benny from 1954 or 1955. While
    the closing credits/theme is playing, Don Wilson makes mention that Jack's
    next television program will be in three weeks, and that Ann Sothern's
    "Private Secretary" program will be seen in that time slot for the
    following two weeks.

    "In the meantime, you can still hear Jack Benny's radio program every
    Sunday evening over the CBS Radio Network"

    (And then the CBS-TV 'eye' pops up while a network staff announcer says)

    "Ed Sullivan's 'Toast of the Town' later tonight; This is the CBS
    Telvision Network".

    (During the 'overlap' years, Jack Benny on Radio was still on Sundays
    7-7:30pm Eastern, and whenever he had his 'occasional' TV programs, it was
    on Sundays 7:30-8pm Eastern. Radio had become transcribed by that time,
    and his occasional TV programs were mostly live although there were a few
    that were filmed in advance usually at Desilu. If he had a TV show that
    week, his radio program would usually 'plug' it. And I've seen a
    live-to-kinescope tape of one of his TV 'specials' where he comes out at
    the beginning of the TV show, amazed at how he thought he was SO FUNNY,
    he was just listening to his own radio broadcast just then while in his
    dressing room!)

    BTW, back to "Ozzie & Harriet" and "The Simpsons" ...

    "The Simpsons" shouldn't be compared as such with "Ozzie and Harriet"
    because "Simpsons" is a *CARTOON*! "Ozzie and Harriet" was an actual film
    of real people as actors! (playing characters using their own real life
    names though, mostly based upon their real-life family experiences).

    Not that I'm trying to knock cartoons [removed] I enjoy most of the
    'nostalgic' movie and early TV cartoons, and maybe there's somewhat of a
    fine-line or 'crossover' between sit-coms and cartoons (do you consider
    CPT/SG/HB's "Flintstones" and "Jetsons" to be sitcoms? or TV cartoons?),
    but as much as I am uninterested in contemporary television, if they want
    to compare the longevity of a TV series with the 14 TV seasons of "Ozzie
    and Harriet", they should pick a REAL sit-com, not a cartoon.

    BTW, in addition to its 14 season TV run (1952/53 thru 1965/66) over
    ABC-TV, there was a brief revival of "Ozzie and Harriet" around 1973.
    It was called "Ozzie's Girls", and was how Ozzie and Harriet Nelson rented
    out the boys' room to two female college student boarders, one black and
    one white. Both David and Rick had been married and moved out for several
    [removed]

    There were 24 episodes of "Ozzie's Girls" produced, and it was *TAPED*
    (not filmed), also first-run-syndicated, although at least the pilot
    episode did get an airing over the NBC Television Network around 1972 or
    1973. So, that adds some 24 episodes to the 435 original episodes of the
    1952-66 period, as well as an extra "fifteenth" season if you REALLY want
    to count the numbers! :-)

    Also, prior to the cartoon on Fox-TV, who had ever even *HEARD* of these
    "Simpsons"??? Prior to 1952 (the ABC-TV premiere) or even 1944 (the CBS
    Radio premiere), people *DID* know who Ozzie Nelson and Harriet Hilliard
    (Nelson) were! :-)

    [removed] circa 1950, there was a feature-length Universal-International film
    starring the Nelsons using their own names, "Ozzie and Harriet, Here Come
    the Nelsons". And the two of them togather or seperately had appeared
    (usually as 'themselves') in numerous other Hollywood movies -- Ozzie
    usually as a band or orchestra leader, Harriet usually as a lead female
    singer in that band or orchestra!

    As for Ozzie and Harriet on [removed] I have heard several of the later
    1940's episodes, when they were sponsored by International Silver, and on
    CBS Radio or sometimes on NBC Radio. But I have never had a chance to hear
    the ABC Radio episodes (1949-54), when there were various sponsors here
    and there, one of the more regular ones being Heinz-57 Varieties.
    I wonder if the TV show were promoted/plugged on their radio program,
    towards the end of their 1951/52 radio season and then throughout their
    last two radio seasons (1952/53 and 1953/54)?

    Mark J. Cuccia
    mcuccia@[removed]
    New Orleans LA

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 11:03:31 -0500
    From: Elizabeth McLeod <lizmcl@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Re: Gildersleeve Bulletin

    On 1/22/03 1:13 AM OldRadio Mailing Lists wrote:

>     Yesterday I was listening to a Great Gildersleeve show but before the show
>     started the network broke in with a war bulletin but didn't broadcast it.
>     Instead Hal Peary made small talk with audience talking about how they were
>     going to have to talk fast during the show since they had lost time because
>     of the bulletin. As much as I enjoyed hearing Hal talking to audience it
>     seemed like the war bulletin would be too important to not broadcast it.

    The bulletin *was* broadcast -- it was a brief talk by Navy Secretary
    James Forrestal from Guam, discussing the progress of the battle for Iwo
    Jima -- and a recording of the talk survives in the NBC Collection at the
    Library of Congress. This talk is immediately followed by the opening for
    "Gildersleeve," which continues for a few seconds and then fades out.

    What apparently happened with the surviving complete recording of the
    Gildersleeve episode is that the NBC-Hollywood engineer in charge of
    making the recording switched his input from the network line after the
    bulletin was announced, and instead plugged into the studio program
    monitor line. This resulted in the recording preserving what was going on
    in the studio -- Peary and Tetley gagging it up for the audience -- but
    this material was not actually broadcast. Meanwhile, the bulletin itself
    was recorded and preserved off the network line by NBC-New York. I
    couldn't tell you *why* the Hollywood engineer went to such trouble, but
    that's apparently what happened.

    Elizabeth

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 11:04:20 -0500
    From: John McCourt <jop_mccourt@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Newcomer to OTR needs help

     I am completely new to OTR having discovered it only
    in the past week so I have nothing to trade as yet.

    I am hoping that someone out there will be willing to
    sell me material on CD. If so please contact me at
    jop_mccourt@[removed]

    My tastes are very limited however so this is my wants
    list:-

    Country music progs (American, Australian, New Zealand
    artists.

    English speaking Folk and Traditional Music.

    Cajun Music

    Western Music.

    Also searching for BBC series:-
    Story of Texas narrated by Tex Ritter;
    Charles Chiltons's The Blue and the Grey;
    Educating Archie;
    Ray's a Laugh;
    Elsie and Doris;
    A life of Bliss;
    Smokey Mountain Jamboree;
    Big Bill Campbell Show;
    20 Questions featuring Gilbert Harding;
    Skiffle Club.

    If you can not sell I would appreciate anyone pointing
    me to where I might get what I am looking for.

    Regards,
    Jop.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 11:04:57 -0500
    From: Jerry White <phantom_ace_x1@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  People accents and sounds of the golden age
     of radio

    I've always wondered why its not possible to truly
    reenact the "sound and feel" of OTR. Listening to
    reenactments one can easily tell its a reenactment.
    Its not a quality issue but more the accent and tone
    of the people. In a [removed] talked and sounded
    differently back in the [removed]:) A somewhat folksy
    sound with some to a more cultured tone in others.

    I've always wondered why this is.

    It seems people started talking differently,or a more
    "modern" or "up to date" sound sometime in the 1960's
    and have remained so ever since. Where as the
    30's,40's and 50's people had that "accent" in their
    voice which is missing today. I hope I'm making sense
    [removed]:)

    Any thoughts on why this is?

    Jerry White

    =====
    phantom_ace_x1 For my current streamload offerings [removed]
    [removed]

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 11:05:25 -0500
    From: Dixonhayes@[removed]
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Re: Gildy war bulletin

>     As much as I enjoyed hearing Hal talking to audience it
>     seemed like the war bulletin would be too important to not broadcast it.

    Is it possible they *did* broadcast it, but it just wasn't recorded as part
    of the show?  Perhaps this wasn't an aircheck but was recorded in the studio
    where Peary, etc were doing the show, and the bulletin originated from
    another location.  Or perhaps whoever was recording the show (the sponsor,
    perhaps) chose not to record the war bulletin.  Perhaps Peary telling the
    audience they have to talk faster because of the war bulletin was something
    that did *not* go over the air?  Of course I would have to hear all of this
    before I could take a better guess, which episode was it?

    Dixon

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 11:06:26 -0500
    From: "Martin Grams, Jr." <mmargrajr@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Adam and Eve skit

    A. Joseph Ross and Ken Clarke asked:

>               I've been told the penalties imposed by the censors could be
>     quite stiff.  The one example which jumps immediately to mind is the
>     infamous "Adam and Eve" incident.  ...
>     I've listened to this skit and
>     can't understand what censors found so objectionable about it.

    It wasn't what was said, in as much how it was said.  A couple years ago
    SPERDVAC's RADIOGRAM had an informative article about the subject,
    uncovering many trivial facts.

    Arch Oboler, who was scripting episodes for THE RUDY VALLEE SHOW and later
    gain fame for LIGHTS OUT! was the author of the "Adam and Eve" skit.  Oboler
    recalled how he had to go to court to testify because the Leagues of Decency
    had sent in so many letters demanding an explanation.  Oboler also recalled
    a second court case in which a woman down south apparently wrote a skit
    based on "Adam and Eve" and she tried to sue the network for plagerism.  Now
    usually the networks back off when someone in the general public comes out
    of the woodwork and attempts to cash in on the success of a popular program
    but in this case, NBC backed it in court.

    Edgar Bergen recalled Mae West playing the skit straight during rehearsals,
    but during the actual broadcast, she ad-libbed a few lines and played them
    with Mae West emotion such as when the snake is trying to squeeze through
    the fence and says he's stuck and West replies as if she's having an
    orgasim, "There! There!  Now you're through."  And then she adds "Now get it
    for me - I feel like doin' a big apple."

    When you listen to the skit, you can hear character of the snake actually
    hesitating, and repeating a line twice cause she ad-libbed.

    I will try to dig out that SPERDVAC article and get it posted on Terry
    Salomonson's web-site by the end of the week so the details about the "Adam
    and Eve" skit, including quotes and recollections from Edgar Bergen, Dorothy
    Lamour and Arch Oboler can be read.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 11:07:01 -0500
    From: SanctumOTR@[removed]
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Re: Great Gildersleeve war bulletin

    In a message dated 1/22/03 12:14:08 AM, Andrew Godfrey writes:

>     DYesterday I was listening to a Great Gildersleeve show but before the show
>     started the network broke in with a war bulletin but didn't broadcast it.
>     Instead Hal Peary made small talk with audience talking about how they were
>     going to have to talk fast during the show since they had lost time because
>     of the bulletin. As much as I enjoyed hearing Hal talking to audience it
>     seemed like the war bulletin would be too important to not broadcast it.
>     Andrew Godfrey

    ***I'm sure the network did indeed broadcast the war bulletin over the
    airwaves, just not to the studio audience.  Most probably, Hal Peary was
    continuing the pre-show audience warmup so that the audience would be in the
    mood to laugh when the show did begin ... which they might not be had they
    heard the war news.  The show was probably transcribed from the studio or
    through a direct line from the studio, rather than an aircheck.  BTW, which
    episode was it? --Anthony Tollin***

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 12:06:02 -0500
    From: "William Harper" <whhsa@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Richard and Jack

    Dear OTR Lovers;
    Peace to each of you in 2003.
    I heard that Richard Simmons ~ Sargent Preston of the Yukon Mounties ~ died.
      Is there any truth to this?  Was Simmons Sargent Preston on radio and TV?

    To Jack French.  Please email me I have misplaced your email address!

    Manituwah,
    Bill

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 12:09:50 -0500
    From: bloodbleeds@[removed]
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  re: Bickersons

    Someone asked where they can find the Bickersons recordings. [removed] is the
    place to go. Or do one better and go to [removed] to get The
    Bickersons Scripts, which includes rare stuff that isn't on tape or cd anywhere.

    Ben

    It's That Time Again!
    The New Stories of Old-Time Radio [removed]

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 12:11:29 -0500
    From: William L Murtough <k2mfi@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Gildersleeve War Bulletin

    Andrew Godfrey commented on the broadcast of a war bulletin during the
    Great Gildersleeve show. The bulletin would have come from a different
    scource. Probably the New York newsroom (Gildersleeve would have been a
    Hollywood origination most likely). Apparently the feed to the recording
    company was bridged across the studio output line. This would have been
    normal in that the dress rehearsal would have  probably also been
    recorded. The recording facility (most likely Radio Recorders) would have
    started actually recording at the scheduled time for the start of the
    program itself. They would not be aware of the delayed start. All in a
    days routine!

    BILL MURTOUGH

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 14:10:34 -0500
    From: passage@[removed]
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Theater 10:30, and other Canadian shows

    Hi All,

    While looking for information on some Inspector Maigret radio
    shows created by the CBC, I found they made 40 30-minute shows
    that aired from 1970 through 1971 and 7 1-hour shows that aired
    from 1975 to 1977.  The 30-minute shows may all have been 5-part
    series.  Some, maybe all aired on the CBC's Theater 10:30.  But
    that's about all the information I could find.  Does anyone
    know of this series?  For that matter, how come there's so little
    information about Canadian dramatic radio?

    Frank

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 20:49:05 -0500
    From: hal stone <dualxtwo@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Re: War Bulletins

    Andrew Godfrey commented about an interruption of "The Great Gildersleeve"
    for a war bulletin.

>     Yesterday I was listening to a Great Gildersleeve show but before the show
>     started the network broke in with a war bulletin but didn't broadcast it.
>     Instead Hal Peary made small talk with audience talking about how they were
>     going to have to talk fast during the show since they had lost time because
>     of the bulletin. As much as I enjoyed hearing Hal talking to audience it
>     seemed like the war bulletin would be too important to not broadcast it.

    Actually, Andrew, it undoubtedly was broadcast, but was not recorded on the
    program transcription.

    I recall events like this happened all the time during the war years.

    I can't speak for west Coast operations, but in NY, a complex broadcast
    engineering "center" was on a separate floor than the studios. It was called
    Master Control. It was a complex setup of cables coming in from all the
    individual studio control rooms all over the building, and "plugged" into
    what we call "Patch Panels". Even though the studio engineer in each studio
    (during a performance) monitored the levels and sound originating out of
    "his" respective studio, another engineer sat at a panel in Master Control
    making sure the signal actually being broadcast met quality and sound level
    standards.

    He had controls (knobs) at his fingertips, and could shut off the audio
    "feed" from one studio, and open the audio "feed" from another location. He
    had absolute control. For instance, he could cut a program off if was
    running long, because the next scheduled show was due to start. Broadcast
    operations ran by the clock, with precise timing.

    Adjacent to "Master Control" was a glass enclosed "Announce Booth" visible
    to the Master Control supervisor and engineer. It a War Bulletin needed to
    be aired, someone from the News Department would rush it up to Master
    Control, give a copy to the staff announcer on duty and one to the engineer.

    I get the impression that in this instance, The Gildersleeve show audio feed
    had a seperate "patch" directly into a recording device, and a separate
    patch for the on-the-air direct feed. It was just a question of which knob
    the master Control engineer had "open".

    New Bulletins in between programs (station breaks) were easy to accommodate.

    The Master Control engineering supervisor probably phoned down to the studio
    engineer, and the conversation went something like this,

    Master Eng.  Hey Charlie, need to cut away for a bulletin.

    Studio Eng.  Right! (He then informs the [removed] probably asked "How
                 long"?

    Master Eng.  Looks like 30 seconds.

    Studio Eng.  Ok.

    Then, Master Control would cut away from the show, open the mike in the
    announce booth, and cue the announcer to read the bulletin. In the meantime,
    the Director would get word to the cast that the show was being interrupted,
    (or in this case delayed) and Hal Peary was able to alert the studio
    audience, and they were able to make up the time. (Or use optional dialogue
    cuts).

    But I recall that back in New York, The few times I was performing and the
    show was interrupted for a bulletin, they just interrupted the program at
    will, and we were not aware that it happened. We just kept talking, and the
    listener never knew what had transpired in the story during the time it took
    to read the bulletin. They just heard the announcer say, after reading [removed]
    "We now return you to our regular Programming".

    Hal(Harlan)Stone
    Jughead

    --------------------------------
    End of [removed] Digest V2003 Issue #33
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