Subject: [removed] Digest V2006 #289
From: [removed]@[removed]
Date: 10/24/2006 12:14 PM

To: [removed]@[removed]

    ------------------------------

                                The Old-Time Radio Digest!
                                  Volume 2006 : Issue 289
                             A Part of the [removed]!
                                 [removed]
                                     ISSN: 1533-9289

                                     Today's Topics:

      Re: Fred allen                        [ Cnorth6311@[removed] ]
      Orson Welles' WW II radio play        [ <vzeo0hfk@[removed]; ]
      Out of Print                          [ "Martin Grams, Jr." <mmargrajr@hotm ]
      Old-Time Radio's THE RAILROAD HOUR    [ "Martin Grams, Jr." <mmargrajr@hotm ]
      Frad Allen Funny ?                    [ "Frank McGurn" <[removed]@sbcgloba ]
      Fred Allen's [removed]                [ jameshburns@[removed] (Jim Burns) ]
      10-24 births/deaths                   [ Ronald Sayles <bogusotr@[removed] ]
      OTR comedy                            [ "Holm, Chris " <[removed]@[removed] ]
      Writers on Sam Spade Show             [ William Harker <wharker@[removed] ]
      How Do You Like Your Eggs?            [ "Stuart Lubin" <StuartLubin@[removed] ]
      Fred && Amos & Andy                   [ "Bill Scherer" <bspro@[removed]; ]
      Golden Age of Radio and One night St  [ "Scherago" <rscherago@[removed]; ]

    ------------------------------

    Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 23:06:14 -0400
    From: Cnorth6311@[removed]
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Re: Fred allen

    I will say one thing for Ron. Whether he does it intentionally, or not, he
    certainly can stir up the passions in people. I personally love Amos "N"
    Andy,
    particularly the Rinso years. I also respect Ron's aversion to the show. To
    me,  that's what makes the world go round. Is it tomato, or tomahto?

    Charlie

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 09:01:34 -0400
    From: <vzeo0hfk@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Orson Welles' WW II radio play

    Karen Lerner asked about an OTR "episode" that was broadcast during World War
    II about a small town in which a fascist group were holding a meeting and the
    town folk wanted to storm the meeting and run them out of town.

    The episode is a radio play written and directed by Orson Welles for a 1941
    series called The Free Company. The play's title is "His Honor the Mayor." [I
    discuss the series, by the way, in my book, Words At War (Scarecrow Press,
    2002).]

    The notion that freedom of speech should not be available to people with
    unpopular ideas was not uncommon during the war period, and Welles was trying
    to say that the constitution was not a five or six day affair only available
    to people with "the right set of ideas."

    Howard Blue
    [removed]

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 09:03:00 -0400
    From: "Martin Grams, Jr." <mmargrajr@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Out of Print

    Ken Greenwald made a comment about a laserdisc being purchased for a large
    sum of money.  It was a large sum of money, even for a cliffhanger serial.
    At the Williamsburg Film Festival I have seen laserdiscs sell for $[removed] to
    $[removed] depending on the title and whether or not that was used or new.  It's
    a lot like purchasing a VHS video from an internet mail order company for
    $[removed] (taped off TV) when you can buy the DVD release "remastered" for
    $[removed] at Best Buy.  It's buyer beware.

    A friend of mine attended a pulp and paper magazine convention back in July
    and a vendor was selling six or seven small British publications of THE
    SHADOW from the 1930s for a price of $[removed] total.  My friend ended up
    paying the price and later that evening, used the hotel computer to find out
    their value.  There were a few on eBay for $[removed] and $[removed] a piece and when
    he found an on-line market price guide of sorts listing the actual dates and
    titles for the small publications, (I think they were called THRILLER), he
    found that the value was about $[removed] in NG condition and $[removed] in mint
    condition.  He realized he got ripped off because the vendor who sold them
    to him knew what he was selling.  Had they sold for $100, he wouldn't have
    cared too much and shrugged it off but at $[removed] for items that were worth
    no more than one fifth in mint (and these were not mint), he wasn't happy.
    This came from an established vendor who had been in the business for years
    so he knew the value and going price for his separately-priced items.  My
    friend will probably not be attending that convention (which is a shame
    cause he actually spent over $4,000 with vendors in multiple years) or at
    the very least, not with that vendor again.

    The moral is beware of what you pay for at prices that seem valued.  Even
    material objects that are out of print for 70+ years being sold in the
    venues you would expect they would go for top dollar, are not always what
    they seem.

    Martin

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 09:04:00 -0400
    From: "Martin Grams, Jr." <mmargrajr@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Old-Time Radio's THE RAILROAD HOUR

    There were fliers on the freebee table at FOTR this past weekend that
    described up-and-coming books about Old-Time Radio.  Among them was a flier
    about THE RAILROAD HOUR from Bear Manor Media ([removed]).
    Listed below are some fun facts about the program (hoping this might
    generate worthwhile discussions on the Digest) and satisfy two people who
    asked me at FOTR why it was called "Hour" when the program ran 45 minutes
    and 30 minutes instead of a full hour.

    FUN FACTS ABOUT THE RAILROAD HOUR
    So why is the program called the Railroad "Hour" when it was on the air only
    thirty minutes?  In radio, the term "hour" was indicative of the time of the
    beginning of the broadcast, rather than the number of minutes the program
    was on the air.

    The Railroad Hour did not broadcast any operas, contrary to popular belief,
    and reference guides.  The producers of the series presented operettas and
    musicals, leaving the operas for other programs, namely The Metropolitan
    Opera broadcasts.  So what is the difference between opera and operetta?

    An opera is an art form consisting of a dramatic stage performance set to
    music, and which the dialogue is sung, rather than spoken.  An operetta was
    a musical performance where the conversations are "talked" and the
    expressive moments are set in song.

    The Railroad Hour was broadcast from the studios of the National
    Broadcasting Company in Hollywood, California.  The program was heard
    regularly over 170 stations of the NBC network from 1948-1954.  According to
    an annual report issued by the Association of American Railroads that it was
    estimated that the program was heard by more than four million family
    groups.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 09:09:20 -0400
    From: "Frank McGurn" <[removed]@[removed];
    To: "The Old Time Radio Digest" <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Frad Allen Funny ?

    I would say that the vote is in and Fred Allen was ,and is, funny. I don't
    know Ronald Sayles, he dose a great job on his birth/death lists every day.
    Now I wonder did Mr. Sayles make his statement on Fred Allen, not being
    funny, to stimulate a topic to discuss. If that was his motive he sure woke
    up a lot of OTR Fred Allen lovers.

    My Favorite poem is "Run to the Roundhouse Mother, He Can't Corner You
    There" Falstaff Openshaw. How many OTR readers know what a Roundhouse is?

    [ADMINISTRIVIA: Preferences aren't up for "votes;" while Allen makes me fall
    down in laughter, that doesn't make him [removed] only makes him funny _to
    [removed] Suggesting that something so subjective as a preference can be
    determined by a vote makes no sense. So there's no "right" answer to the
    question of whether Allen is funny - or more accurately, _every_ answer is
    "right."

    The fun part is finding out about other people's thoughts, not trying to come
    up with some arbitrary "is or is not." So if you haven't already, give us
    your two-cents on whether Allen makes you laugh, or yawn.  --cfs3]

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 09:09:53 -0400
    From: jameshburns@[removed] (Jim Burns)
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Fred Allen's [removed]

    I have to disagree with the digester who doesn't enjoy Fred [removed]

    When I first listened to a batch of episodes, about sixteen years ago,
    Allen made me laugh--

    And I was struck by the elegance of the seeming simplicity of his
    program's format.

    All of this is subjective, of course!

    But one should never lose track of the enormous influence Fred Allen had
    on other entertainers. Johnny Carson marked Allen as having almost as
    big an effect on his humor, and style, as Jack Benny.  And when you
    consider all the comics and TV personalities who fell under Carson's
    spell, there's a direct line of influence, from Allen, to today's
    [removed]

    Dick Cavett has also mentioned, many times, how much he loved Fred
    Allen--Noticeable, I believe, if you catch any of the late '60s/early
    '70s ABC-TV Cavett shows now on DVD, or being run on Turner Classic
    [removed]

    And, I say, I say, boy, I  haven't even mentioned Foghorn Leghorn, or
    any of the myriad of merchandising tie-ins, over the last few [removed]

    ;-)

    Jim Burns

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 09:10:01 -0400
    From: Ronald Sayles <bogusotr@[removed];
    To: Olde Tyme Radio Digest Digest <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  10-24 births/deaths

    October 24th births

    10-24-1879 - Benjamin Albert "[removed]" Rolfe - Brasher Falls, NY - d.
    4-23-1956
    conductor: "Lucky Strike Dance Orchestra"; "Believe It or Not"
    10-24-1891 - Nila Mack - Arkansas City, KS - d. 1-20-1953
    director: "Helen and Mary"; "Let's Pretend"
    10-24-1894 - Ted "Kid" Lewis - London, England - d. 8-25-1971
    bandleader: "Live Band Remotes"
    10-24-1903 - Melvin Purvis - Timmonsville, SC - d. 2-29-1960
    fbi agent: Lent his name to "Post Cereal's Junior G-Man Corps"
    10-24-1904 - Moss Hart - The Bronx, NY - d. 12-20-1961
    panelist: "Who Said That?"
    10-24-1904 - Radie Harris - NYC - d. 2-22-2001
    gossip columnist: CBS Radio Network
    10-24-1911 - Sonny Terry - Greensboro, NC - d. 3-11-1986
    blues singer, harmonica player: "Hootenanny"; "Roomful of Music"
    10-24-1916 - Ray Singer - NYC - d. 11-16-1992
    writer: "Phil Harris/Alice Faye Show"; "Rudy Vallee Show"; "Charlotte
    Greenwood Show"
    10-24-1925 - Teri Keane - NYC
    actor: Hope Evans "Big Sister"; Terry Burton "Second Mrs. Burton"
    10-24-1930 - J. P. "Big Bopper" Richardson - Sabine Pass, TX - d.
    2-3-1959
    Early Rock and Roll disc jockey
    10-24-1936 - David Nelson - NYC
    actor: "Adventures of Ozzie and Harriet"

    October 24h deaths

    01-31-1919 - Jackie Robinson - Cairo, GA - d. 10-24-1972
    sportscaster: (Baseball Hall of Fame) "Jackie Robinson Show"
    02-27-1888 - Lotte Lehmann - Perleberg, Prussia, Germany - d. 10-24-1976
    soprano: "Command Performance"; "Concert Hall"; "Here's to Veterans"
    03-28-1888 - Jim Harkins - d. 10-24-1970
    emcee: "Song Writing Machine Series"
    04-03-1921 - Leonard Sues - El Paso, TX - d. 10-24-1971
    music: "The Eddie Cantor Show"
    04-30-1870 - Franz Lehar - Romorn, Austria-Hungary - d. 10-24-1948
    operetta composer: "Railroad Hour"; "Showtime"
    08-06-1933 - Beverly Wills - California - d. 10-24-1963
    actor: (Daughter of Joan Davis) Fluffy Adams "Junior Miss"
    08-19-1921 - Gene Roddenberry - El Paso, TX - d. 10-24-1991
    writer: "Have Gun, Will Travel"
    09-07-1927 - Don Messick - Buffalo, NY - d. 10-24-1997
    actor: "Let George Do It"; "Horizons West"; "NBC University Theatre"
    10-28-1897 - Edith Head - San Bernardino, CA - d. 10-24-1981
    costume designer: Intermission Guest "Lux Radio Theatre"
    11-02-1899 - Walter Woolf King - San Francisco, CA - d. 10-24-1984
    emcee, host, actor: :Beatrice Lillie Show"; "Flying Red Horse Tavern"
    xx-xx-1865 - Hal Brown - d. 10-24-1942
    harmonica: "Just Plain Bill"

    Ron Sayles
    Milwaukee, Wisconsin

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 09:10:59 -0400
    From: "Holm, Chris " <[removed]@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  OTR comedy

    It seems to me, based mainly on casual observation, that it is much
    easier for members on this list to agree on what makes good drama than
    what makes good comedy.

    The elements of good drama (and here I'm including genre shows like
    detective, western, and scifi) seem to be more universal: characters
    with depth, taut story telling, natural dialog.  Even if you don't like
    a specific genre like westerns, there's little disagreement that shows
    like Gunsmoke and Fort Laramie were very good shows.  Drama seems to be
    very universal.  All around the world, a good story is a good story
    regardless of language, culture, or translation.

    Comedy, on the other hand, seems to hit us in a very different way.  It
    seems to be much more dependent on culture, heritage, and personal
    nature.  If we don't find a comedy show funny, it is much harder for us
    to gauge if it is good anyway.  I personally love shows like Vic and
    Sade, Fibber McGee and Molly, and especially Lum and Abner.  In these
    shows, the plot is typically secondary and is just a frame work for a
    few characters to riff on the meaning of words, conflicts,
    misunderstanding, and distractions.  For me, this is great comedy.

    On the other hand, I despise sitcom type shows like My Friend Irma,
    Henry Aldrich, Father Knows Best, etc.  The sitcom formula of the main
    character forgetting to do something/screwing something up and then
    spending the whole show trying to conceal it/get away with it is just so
    soul-crushingly unfunny, it makes me want to hit myself in the face with
    a brick.  But some people must find this formula funny, since TV and
    radio have been using it for 70-odd years.

    Now some sitcom-ish shows like Life of Riley and Great Gildersleeve
    redeem themselves in my eyes by having such great characters.  There's
    very little that Digger O'Dell or Peavey can't make up for, but these
    shows are the exception, not the rule.

    Therefore, it is very hard for me to accurately judge sitcom shows.
    They're not funny to me, and regardless of how good they are on any
    objective measure, they just sound stale and flat.

    And I think this is why we're discussing Fred Allen know.  To some
    people, he's just not funny.  Others find him great.  And because comedy
    seems to affect us in very different ways than drama, and seems to be
    less universal than drama, it is much harder for us to agree on
    something being "good" or "bad" radio.

    Just a thought,
    -chris holm

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 09:17:25 -0400
    From: William Harker <wharker@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Writers on Sam Spade Show

    First, let me give a public thank you to all of you who communicated
    with me off-list concerning my previous questions regarding William
    Spier and other matters concerning the Sam Spade radio show.

    As in many things in life, there is good news and bad news to
    report.  First, I have found the entire trial court record at the
    National Archives in Laguna Niguel, California.  I have to inspect
    the record in its entirety but evidently Warner Brothers submitted
    approximately 200 whole Sam Spade scripts as evidence in support of
    their allegation of copyright infringement.  I know some on the list
    are script collectors; I know some scripts are harder to find than
    others depending on several factors.  What I do not know is whether
    the Sam Spade scripts at Laguna Niguel are entire scripts or merely
    selected portions demonstrating alleged copyright violation.  Since
    what I am doing has nothing really to do with the scripts themselves,
    I doubt if I will be examining them that closely.

    Second, as several of you noted to me off-list, the William Spier
    papers are held at the Wisconsin Historical Society in
    Madison.  Unfortunately, I am not getting much of a response from
    those folks so I have taken up another individual's suggestion and
    communicated with someone in Madison who might be able to help
    me.  This reminds me of another recent Dashiell Hammett "problem" I
    had.  Hammett wrote a review of James Joyce's Finnegans Wake for the
    dummy issue of PM (the leftist New York daily started by Ralph
    Ingersoll).  The dummy issue was never made public, so the review is
    kind of tough to find.  The 42nd Street Branch of the New York Public
    Library refused to be of assistance to either me or my interlibrary
    loan librarian.  I, finally, tracked down the author of a book about
    PM, initially finding his [removed] dissertation advisor, and he was able
    to supply me a copy.

    Third, I still don't have a clue as to who owned Regis Radio Corp.  I
    know Regis was the production company using CBS' facilities and
    obviously the CBS airwaves, but I have not found a single name
    connected to the company.  As Spier was the producer, I'm hoping
    something in his papers will shed light on this.

    Fourth, I have learned that Alfred A. Knopf kindly left his
    collection of papers (its quite large) with the Ransom Center at the
    University of Texas at Austin.  Knopf was the other plaintiff besides
    Warner Brothers.  This is convenient as there is both a Dashiell
    Hammett Collection (via Lillian Hellman) and Erle Stanley Gardner
    Collection there.  I see a major trip to Austin in my future.

    Fifth, I now ask another question of the list:  does anyone have any
    information regarding the three writers of the show who were also
    defendants.  William Robert Tallman, Giles B. Doud, Joe
    Eisinger.  Specifically, if they left papers to a university or
    society, or the whereabouts of any desendants, or perhaps someone on
    the list knows of any remarks these gentlemen made about the
    case.  Right now, the only comment I've found is a "throwaway" remark
    Hammett made upon arriving in Los Angeles for the trial, "the action
    is just one of those technical things."

    Again, many thanks.  Gosh, I love this list.

    Bill Harker

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 10:19:05 -0400
    From: "Stuart Lubin" <StuartLubin@[removed];
    To: "Old Time Radio Digest" <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  How Do You Like Your Eggs?

    Entering the fray about whether Fred Allen was funny or not, no one can
    prove it either way, although the lines of reasoning are interesting.  As
    long as writers explain why they feel one way or the other, that's what
    makes life interesting.

    I cannot prove to you why sunny side up is better than scrambled, but that's
    why restaurants have menus.  (I know, "sunny side up" vs. "scrambled" is not
    on the menu.)  Charlie, please forgive this diversion.

    Stuart

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 11:11:55 -0400
    From: "Bill Scherer" <bspro@[removed];
    To: ""old-time radio digest">" <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Fred && Amos & Andy

    Well I have always loved Fred and Amos and Andy.  I started collecting when I
    was a teen in the early 70's. My first shows were The Benny show, Amos and
    Andy and of course Fred's Alley era shows. I always thought they were funny.
    I always got the joke for some reason even though I didn't get *all* the
    topical
    stuff.  There was always enough to make me ask questions, think, and laugh.
    I never understood the bad press that Amos and Andy got either.
    Just my nickel's worth.
    Bill

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 13:10:04 -0400
    From: "Scherago" <rscherago@[removed];
    To: "Old Time Radio" <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Golden Age of Radio and One night Stand with
     the Big Bands

    The latest "Golden Age of Radio" programs with Dick Bertel
    and Ed Corcoran, and "A One Night Stand with the Big Bands"
    with Arnold Dean can be heard at [removed].

    Each week we feature three complete shows in MP3 format
    for your listening pleasure or for downloading; two "Golden
    Age of Radios" and one "One Night Stand." We present new
    shows every week or so. The current three programs will be
    available on line at least until the morning of  10/31/2006.

    Program 5 - August, 1970 -Jan Miner

    >From the 1940's to the 1980's, Ms. Miner was never far from
    productions on and off Broadway or on out-of-town stages,
    from New Haven and Stratford, Conn., to St. Louis. She was
    on many radio programs, including the popular "Boston Blackie"
    series as Richard Kollmar's leading lady in the late 1940's, and
    was a well-known soap opera star as the heroine of "Hilltop
    House." But later in her career she starred in a real television
    soap opera in Palmolive Liquid commercials.

    Program 6 - September, 1970 - John Gibson

    John Gibson was a network radio actor who portrayed
    Ethelbert on radio adaptation of the pulp fiction series
    "Flashgun Casey, Crime Photographer." Originally,
    Flashgun wasn't a cameraman. But during the first decade
    of his serialization, author George Harmon Coxe toned
    down the character's roughness and reinvented him as a
    hunch-following photographer with a knack for capturing
    crime scenes.

    On this installment of  "The Golden Age of Radio" we'll
    hear Mr. Gibson performing in excerpts from "The
    Magnificent Montague," "Nick Carter," "Milton Berle,"
    and "The Columbia Workshop."

    "A One Night Stand with the Big Bands" With Arnold Dean

    Program 5 - Stan Kenton - August, 1971

    Stan Kenton was an American jazz pianist, vocalist, and
    bandleader known for his innovations in jazz music. He
    was born in Wichita, Kansas, but raised in California. He
    learned piano as a child and toured with various bands in
    his teens. In 1941 he formed his own band and reached the
    height of his popularity by 1953. Many of his band
    arrangements (he used anywhere from 19 to 23 musicians
    at a time) were written by Kenton himself, as well as other
    composers.

    In the 1970's WTIC decided that there was a market in
    the evening for long-form shows that could be packaged
    and sold to sponsors. Two of those shows were "The
    Golden Age of Radio" and "A One Night Stand with the
    Big Bands."

    Dick Bertel had interviewed radio collector-historian
    Ed Corcoran several times on his radio and TV shows,
    and thought a regular monthly show featuring interviews
    with actors, writers, producers, engineers and musicians
    from radio's early days might be interesting. "The Golden
    Age of Radio" was first broadcast in April, 1970; Ed was
    Dick's co-host. It lasted seven years. "The Golden Age
    of Radio" can also be heard Saturday nights on Walden
    Hughes's program on Radio Yesteryear.

    Arnold Dean began his love affair with the big band
    era in his pre-teen years and his decision to study
    the clarinet was inspired by the style of Artie Shaw.
    When he joined WTIC in 1965 he hosted a daily program
    of big band music. In 1971, encouraged by the success
    of his daily program and "The Golden Age of Radio"
    series, he began monthly shows featuring interviews
    with the band leaders, sidemen, agents, jazz reporters,
    etc. who made major contributions to one of the great
    eras of music history.

    Bob Scherago
    Webmaster

    --------------------------------
    End of [removed] Digest V2006 Issue #289
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