Subject: [removed] Digest V2004 #9
From: <[removed]@[removed]>
Date: 1/8/2004 8:38 AM
To: <[removed]@[removed];

------------------------------


                            The Old-Time Radio Digest!
                              Volume 2004 : Issue 9
                         A Part of the [removed]!
                                 ISSN: 1533-9289


                                 Today's Topics:

  Marian Jordan                         [ Ron Sayles <bogusotr@[removed]; ]
  Birth places                          [ Ron Sayles <bogusotr@[removed]; ]
  Re: Sherlock Holmes                   [ Steve Salaba <philmfan@[removed] ]
  Re: November 30, 1933                 [ Elizabeth McLeod <lizmcl@[removed] ]
  Abbott & Costello on ABC              [ rodney-selfhelpbikeco@[removed] ]
  RE: Dragnet                           [ "Michael Hayde" <mmeajv@[removed]; ]
  Out of the Past                       [ Ed Kindred <kindred@[removed]; ]
  Shredded Wheat Factory                [ "James Yellen" <clifengr3@[removed] ]
  Speaking of Radio                     [ "RBB" <oldradio@[removed]; ]
  RE: Jose Jimenez (The Astronaut)      [ [removed]@[removed] ]
  RE: Happy New Year To You             [ [removed]@[removed] ]
  Dragnet on DVD                        [ Rick Keating <pkeating89@[removed]; ]
  ASCAP/BMI broadcast                   [ "Brian Johnson" <chyronop@sbcglobal ]
  Re: Nigal Bruce                       [ Fred Berney <berney@[removed]; ]
  Re: Ovaltine Redux                    [ Michael Shoshani <mshoshani@sbcglob ]
  Ovaltine and Initials                 [ "Stephen A Kallis, Jr." <skallisjr@ ]
  Re: TV Dragnet                        [ Dixonhayes@[removed] ]
  Dragnet episodes                      [ "A. Joseph Ross" <lawyer@attorneyro ]
  Copyrights                            [ "A. Joseph Ross" <lawyer@attorneyro ]
  Jose Jimenez answer                   [ "Matthew Bullis" <matthewbullis@run ]

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 15:56:27 -0500
From: Ron Sayles <bogusotr@[removed];
To: Olde Tyme Radio List <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  Marian Jordan

On another subject entirely.

I have read that Marian Jordan was quite the imbiber and this was the reason
she was sick as often as she was. It was also a contributing factor in her
early demise. Fact or fiction?

Ron Sayles
Milwaukee, Wisconsin

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 15:56:15 -0500
From: Ron Sayles <bogusotr@[removed];
To: Olde Tyme Radio List <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  Birth places

Does anyone know the places of birth for the following people?

Sam Perrin, Gloria Gordon, Ethel Shutta, Howard Snyder and Hugh Wedlock, Jr.

Thanking you in advance.

Ron Sayles
Milwaukee, Wisconsin

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 16:28:32 -0500
From: Steve Salaba <philmfan@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Re: Sherlock Holmes

At 3:57 PM -0500 1/7/04, William Harker wrote:

"The Giant Rat of Sumatra" was *not* a short story by Doyle.

True! But the Firesign Theatre comedy troupe *did* do a parody of a Holmes
story on an album called "Hemlock Stones and The Giant Rat of Sumatra"
which had a sort of OTR style. Not to mention their earlier album which
featured a fake OTR show starring detective "Nick Danger, Third Eye",
complete with commercials and interrupted by a an important message from
"the President of the United States" (FDR)

I still know it by heart. Funny how an OTR parody from the seventies is
itself now a bit of Old Time Radio (or at least a record album) nostalgia.

Firesign Theatre (or some members thereof) also did an OTR science fiction
parody (Mark Time - a kind of space detective - complete with teen-age
sidekick) and another Nick Danger album that I've forgotten the title of.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 16:30:42 -0500
From: Elizabeth McLeod <lizmcl@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  Re: November 30, 1933

On 1/7/04 3:56 PM [removed]@[removed] wrote:

The opening to the Kraft Show with Paul Whiteman from 11-30-1933, the emcee
has some cryptic comments "We're beginning tonight's musical, I won't say
feat, in view of what we've all been through today, tonight's ice box raid,
with a new English tune, 'Peter, Peter' ".

Would this be a reference to a prohibition raid?

Probably not, since no significant Prohibition enforcement efforts were
being made at this time -- the Eighteenth Amendment was officially
repealed on December 5th, but it was obvious to all involved that
Prohibition, for all intents and purposes, was already defunct.

It's more likely a reference to the fact that November 30, 1933 was
Thanksgiving Day -- hence the mention of Raiding The Ice Box, then as now
a popular Thanksgiving evening custom.

Elizabeth

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 16:30:56 -0500
From: rodney-selfhelpbikeco@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Abbott & Costello on ABC

I've been listening to the latest Radio Spirits set of Abbott & Costello
shows, and I was wondering about the circumstances behind the show moving
from NBC to ABC.  There seems to be a real drop in quality in the ABC
[removed] adlibbing, less audience reaction etc.  Was the comedy team's
popularity at such a low so quickly?

rodney.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 17:43:17 -0500
From: "Michael Hayde" <mmeajv@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  RE: Dragnet

A. Joseph Ross wrote:

I believe the only TV Dragnets in circulation are from the late 60s
revival, since those are in color.  <snip> I don't believe any of the 1950s
TV Dragnets are in circulation currently, unfortunately.

Actually, right now the situation is quite the opposite.  Unless you have a
Canadian satellite service, you can't see the 1967-70 DRAGNET in the US - it
left TV Land's schedule a month before my book came out (thanks, guys) and
hasn't been scheduled anywhere since.  It's not out on DVD, either, and
nothing definite has been announced.

But, there are several small companies releasing the b&w DRAGNETs.  Although
(as with the color version) Universal Studios owns the 35mm elements, they
did permit copyright to lapse on 171 of the original 276 episodes.
Consequently, any distributor with access to old 16mm TV prints can release
these - and several have.  Check out [removed] for
a comprehensive list of available episodes, DVD reviews and so forth.
(Disclaimer: it's not my website, but I have contributed to that particular
page.)

And now, back to "The Adventures of Shredded Wheat" (no relation to Buck, I
assume)!

Michael

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 18:35:23 -0500
From: Ed Kindred <kindred@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Out of the Past
X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative
X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain

I do recommend to Rick getting hold of Dave Holland's wonderful book. It
will answer almost all of your questions regarding The Lone Ranger.

I thought this was a great idea. Did anybody else research this. Not a rare
title as it was number 7 of 4203
on Amazon. Out of print but available from $[removed]$[removed] This is
admittedly a tad steep for this ol dude.
I also checked Montgomery County Public Library catalog and found only
three copies on gay, lesbian
history and since I had already read Genesis 19 that subject was already
covered. If you have shallow
pockets this book may be a difficult find.
Ed Kindred

  *** This message was altered by the server, and may not appear ***
  ***                  as the sender intended.                   ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 18:56:13 -0500
From: "James Yellen" <clifengr3@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Shredded Wheat Factory

This was posted recently about shredded wheat and why Niagara Falls was
depicted on the box:

Production of Shredded Wheat began in Niagara Falls, New York, in 1901. The
bakery soon became a major tourist attraction in it's own right and would
remain so for decades.

As a kid, I wondered too why there was a picture of Niagara Falls on the box
and it didn't all come together for me until just a few years ago when I saw
the movie NIAGARA shown on television.

This is a terrific film noire filmed on location around the Canadian side of
the Falls and stars Marilyn Monroe. The Falls are as much a part of the
movie as the actors. The set-up for the plot is that Jean Peters and  Dennis
O'Dea (I think) are a couple that come to Niagara Falls because the man is a
Shredded Wheat company employee who has come to company headquarters to
collect a prize for inventing Shredded Wheat stuffing for turkey. The
shredded wheat plant is pointed out in an early scene. Here's the OTR
connection. The Shredded Wheat executive who mets him is marvelously played
by DON WILSON. Further, Wilson's wife is played by LURENE TUTTLE.

I recommend this movie highly, not only for seeing the shredded wheat
factory, and the great performances of the two radio stars, but also for the
terrific story as the couple meets Marilyn Monroe and her cockoled husband,
Joseph Cotton. Marilyn is planning to murder her [removed] there's a
twist!

Jim Yellen

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 18:56:59 -0500
From: "RBB" <oldradio@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  Speaking of Radio

<<Lynn Wagar asked about OTR related books to [removed];>

This gives me a chance to send my kudos to Chuck Schaden for his remarkable
new book
"Speaking Of Radio." I've been curling up with it every night, enjoying
reading chapter-by-chapter of some fascinating, informative and light
conversations with the OTR legends and others involved with radio.

The introduction is by the late-Les Tremayne
and the pages are filled with recollections of 46 personalities and their
photos who were all interviewed by Chuck.

A friend sent a copy to me for Christmas, a nice surprise to receive for my
holiday reading.  I highly (I say, highly!) recommend it.

(All usual disclaimers apply from a satisfied receiver of a marvelous new
book!!)  Thanks, Chuck.

=Russ Butler  oldradio@[removed]

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 22:12:32 -0500
From: [removed]@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  RE: Jose Jimenez (The Astronaut)
X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative
X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain

Jose Jimenez was the creation of comic, Bill Dana (who described himself as
a Jungarian Hew), when he was doing shtick on the stage. His act also
appeared as bits on TV variety shows, and I think he eventually had a thirty
minute sitcom that lasted a year or two, where he again played that
character. Perhaps it was a one note joke, because it wasn't long before
both Jimenez and Dana faded into oblivion.

  *** This message was altered by the server, and may not appear ***
  ***                  as the sender intended.                   ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 22:12:57 -0500
From: [removed]@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  RE: Happy New Year To You
X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative
X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain

(And since the Park Plaza Hotel was the location from which Raymond
Requello was broadcasting a CBS dance band remote on the evening of Oct.
30, 1938, the hotel probably does have a license. :-)  )

That was RAMON Raquello, not Raymond.

As ever,
Raymond Druian

  *** This message was altered by the server, and may not appear ***
  ***                  as the sender intended.                   ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2004 01:03:33 -0500
From: Rick Keating <pkeating89@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Dragnet on DVD

A. Joseph Ross wrote: "I believe the only TV Dragnets
in circulation are from the late 60s revival, since
those are in color.  These are the ones which feature
Harry Morgan as Officer Bill Gannon. I don't believe
any of the 1950s TV Dragnets are in circulation
currently, unfortunately."

Actually, there are older Dragnet episodes on DVD.
Last year at Borders I bought a DVD of four 1953
episodes starring Jack Webb and Ben Alexander. The DVD
is put out by Alpha Video and has a web address of
[removed].

On another note, in a recent digest someone wondered
how closely the TV version compared with the radio
verision. In 1953, it was very similar in terms of
style. As on radio, Friday narrates what's happening.
In one episode we see Friday and Smith interviewing
various individuals while Friday's narration provides
the only actual words we hear. I imagine this was done
either because they were going from a verbatim radio
script and/or they just wanted to move the story along
since they only had a half hour to work with and/or
they were still learning how to best make use of a
visual medium.

But anyway, there are at least four 1950s Dragnet
episodes on DVD.

Rick

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2004 01:04:43 -0500
From: "Brian Johnson" <chyronop@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  ASCAP/BMI broadcast

Michael Biel wrote about Gov. Dukakis being serenaded with "Happy Birthday":

If there was broadcast coverage of this part of the celebration, then it
also is
highly likely that all of the broadcasters likewise have ASCAP [removed]

That may have been true in 1972 but times have changed dramatically.

Today, broadcasters or cable stations only need a license if they originate
the music, for example, if they were broadcasting an entertainment program
or initiating the use of the music. Most all-news and sports networks (radio
and TV) prefer to avoid licensing costs so they have original music composed
for them and copyright it themselves or they buy music production packages
at an annual renewal rate.

For example, when I produce my college sports telecasts, I don't need to
worry if the Ohio State pep band is playing "Hang On, Sloopy." This is
treated as "incidental" or background music unrelated to my telecast. This
is the reason why during sports competitions like ice skating or gymnastics
where music is blared out over the PA the broadcasters don't take a direct
feed of the music and allow their announcers to drone on forever over it.

With the advent of Internet streaming and other forms of transmission, BMI
and ASCAP will be taking an industry wide fee through 2006 from radio
stations (about $176M each in 2004) and each individual stations portion of
that fee will be determined by a formula. Before it was a percentage of a
station's net revenues with a minimum and maximum rate attached.

If you like to read legal-ese, the application forms are on the web!

Brj

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2004 01:05:15 -0500
From: Fred Berney <berney@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Re:  Nigal Bruce

At 06:43 PM 1/6/04 -0500, you wrote:

The title of the movie (unless I'm very much mistaken)
was "Suspicion".

Exactly. I just watched the movie a few night ago.

Fred
[removed]

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2004 01:06:28 -0500
From: Michael Shoshani <mshoshani@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Re: Ovaltine Redux

We've secretly replaced [removed]@[removed]'s message
with Folger's Crystals.  Let's see if anyone notices:
Stephen A Kallis, Jr. wrote:

Dick Olday observes,

the announcer was telling the listeners that Ovaltine was unsweetened,
so he said that if you had tried it & did not like it, you should add at
Least 1 teaspoon of sugar to your drink since sugar is so cheap during
the depression.

I acquired an old 6-ounce Ovaltine tin, pre-WW II.  On the front of its
label, it says, in boldface, "Add your own sugar."  Then, in standard
type, it adds, "Ovaltine is a scientific food concentrate and is
unsweetened."  I guess sugar started creeping in during the Radio Orphan
Annie period.


Nope.  It was there from the [removed] just had to know where to
look :)

I live in Chicago, which is about 30-45 minutes drive from Villa Park.
The Ovaltine Factory in Villa Park is being converted into lofts, but
is still standing; across the street, at the Villa Park Historical
Society museum, one can get quite an education about Ovaltine and its
history.

Capsule version:  Ovaltine was introduced to the USA in its original
formulation of malt. milk, eggs, and cocoa  (and as the ads
proclaimed, "nothing else!"), with the label proclaiming it to be a
scientific food with no sugar added.  In fact, I have a pseudo-medical
booklet that The Wander Company published in 1932 warning that adding
sugar to Ovaltine was bad, because cane sugar was expensive and had
negative nutritional value!  Direct quote from the booklet: "The
growing organism cannot properly thrive and grow on cane sugar for the
simple reason that cane sugar is entirely devoid of essential growth
factors.  These are the reasons why Ovaltine contains no sugar and why
the user is instructed to add his own sugar to taste if he desires to
sweeten the beverage."

That being said, almost from the beginning Ovaltine WAS available in a
version that contained sugar added to the essential four ingredients.
This was marketed as "Chocolate Flavored Ovaltine", and by the very
late 1930s or early 1940s, this was being advertised as "Sweet
Chocolate Ovaltine".

The original unsweetened version, with formula changes over the years,
appears to have been sold until the late 1950s.  I have a 1960s jar of
"plain" Ovaltine (which is what the original version was eventually
called) but by then it contained corn syrup.

Michael Shoshani
Chicago IL

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2004 01:07:33 -0500
From: "Stephen A Kallis, Jr." <skallisjr@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Ovaltine and Initials

A. Joseph Ross, commenting upon my statement that the abbreviation of the
Secret Squadron had changed from "S S" on radio to "S Q" on TV, noted,

Indeed.  By then, "SS" had acquired another meaning.

True enough, but possibly a little more on the business might prove
interesting.

In 1934, Ovaltine was sponsoring Little Orphan Annie on the radio.  That
year, listeners could join the Radio Orphan Annie Secret Society.  By
sending in an inner seal from an Ovaltine tin, one would receive a nifty
pin with Annie's face and shoulders on it, plus a handbook to the ROA
Secret Society.

Somebody involved in the show apparently had a layman's interest in
cryptography.  In the handbook was a very simple cipher, easily
memorized, with each letter represented by a number twice the value of
its position in the alphabet ([removed], A=2, B=4, C=6, ... , Y=50, Z=52, and
&=54).  The following year, the Radio Orphan Annie Secret Society
membership pin was a *decoder* pin.  On it were impressions of two
crossed door keys, and "Radio Orphan Annie's S. S." emblazoned across the
face of the pin.  Every ROA pin after that abbreviated "Secret Society"
as "[removed]"

When Ovaltine dropped Little Orphan Annie and picked up Captain Midnight,
the company continued its cryptographic bent.  Rather than a private
club, the new show had a paramilitary organization that listeners could
"join," the Secret Squadron, abbreviated "S. S."  The Squadron members
all got the equivalent of serial numbers: designators beginning with
"SS."  Captain Midnight's designator on radio was "SS-1"; agent Kelly,
the contact to Major Steele, was "SS-11," and so forth.  On the
Code-O-Graphs, "Secret Squadron" was spelled out on the 1941, 1942, 1945,
and 1946 units, but 1947-1949 models had the organization abbreviated to
"S S."   Just like the ROA units. (I even saw the front element of a 1948
Code-O-Graph on auction on eBay designated a "Captain Midnight SOS
Decoder.")

Stephen A. Kallis, Jr.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2004 01:08:56 -0500
From: Dixonhayes@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Re: TV Dragnet
X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative
X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain

I believe the only TV Dragnets in circulation are from the late 60s
revival, since those are in color.  These are the ones which feature
Harry Morgan as Officer Bill Gannon. I don't believe any of the 1950s
TV Dragnets are in circulation currently, unfortunately.

The 1960s Dragnet is the only one in regular syndication, or at least it was
for a number of years.  But it is *not* the only one in circulation, which is

different.  Many episodes of the 1950s TV version have been available on
video, and I have one on VHS.  I have also heard unconfirmed reports of the
1950s
"Dragnet" popping up on the odd PBS affiliate here and there.

Dixon

  *** This message was altered by the server, and may not appear ***
  ***                  as the sender intended.                   ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2004 01:09:14 -0500
From: "A. Joseph Ross" <lawyer@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Dragnet episodes

On 7 Jan 2004 at 15:56, I 	wrote:

I believe the only TV Dragnets in circulation are from the late 60s
revival, since those are in color.  These are the ones which feature Harry
Morgan as Officer Bill Gannon. I don't believe any of the 1950s TV
Dragnets are in circulation currently, unfortunately.
 
The trouble with nostalgia is that one forgets about newer things.  I was thinking of "in 
circulation" in terms of broadcast syndication.  I forgot completely about home videos and 
DVDs.  Several of you have pointed out to me that a number of older TV dragnets are in 
circulation in the home market.

-- A. Joseph Ross, [removed] [removed] 15 Court Square, Suite 210 lawyer@[removed] Boston, MA 02108-2503 [removed] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2004 10:36:53 -0500 From: "A. Joseph Ross" <lawyer@[removed]; To: [removed]@[removed] Subject: Copyrights
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 13:12:20 -0500
From: "MICHAEL BIEL" <mbiel@[removed];

(And since the Park Plaza Hotel was the location from which Raymond
Requello was broadcasting a CBS dance band remote on the evening of
Oct. 30, 1938, the hotel probably does have a license. :-)  ) 

That does not follow.  I don't know of any Park Plaza Hotel in Boston in 1938, though I 
suppose there might have been one.  The present Park Plaza has only been the Park Plaza 
since sometime in the 1970s or 80s.  Previously, it was the Statler Hilton and was probably 
originally the Statler. 

-- A. Joseph Ross, [removed] [removed] 15 Court Square, Suite 210 lawyer@[removed] Boston, MA 02108-2503 [removed] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2004 10:37:13 -0500 From: "Matthew Bullis" <matthewbullis@[removed]; To: <[removed]@[removed]; Subject: Jose Jimenez answer Hello, unfortunately not a complete answer to the question, but the 45 is a different routine than the one on the "In Orbit" album, where the routine on the album is longer, but certainly different. I still can't figure out the diffence between the lp's "In Orbit" and "The Astronaut," as I don't have both, just the "In Orbit" record and another of his called "The Submarine Officer." Hope that helps some. Thanks a lot. Matthew -------------------------------- End of [removed] Digest V2004 Issue #9 ******************************************* Copyright [removed] Communications, York, PA; All Rights Reserved, including republication in any form. If you enjoy this list, please consider financially supporting it: [removed] For Help: [removed]@[removed] To Unsubscribe: [removed]@[removed] To Subscribe: [removed]@[removed] or see [removed] For Help with the Archive Server, send the command ARCHIVE HELP in the SUBJECT of a message to [removed]@[removed] To contact the listmaster, mail to listmaster@[removed] To Send Mail to the list, simply send to [removed]@[removed]