Subject: [removed] Digest V2002 #288
From: "OldRadio Mailing Lists" <[removed]@[removed];
Date: 7/26/2002 9:40 AM
To: <[removed]@[removed];

------------------------------


                            The Old-Time Radio Digest!
                              Volume 2002 : Issue 288
                         A Part of the [removed]!
                                 ISSN: 1533-9289


                                 Today's Topics:

  Ovaltine [removed]                   [ gad4@[removed] ]
  Re: Eddie Cantor Trade For Unbroadca  [ Tsunami1000@[removed] ]
  Oh, my stars & garters!               [ wich2@[removed] ]
  two-part Dragnet                      [ "Ryan Osentowski" <rosentowski@neb. ]
  Bob Bailey                            [ Rick Keating <pkeating89@[removed]; ]
  Re: Ned Martin, 1923-2002             [ alo <alo@[removed]; ]
  Re: Me and the Sox                    [ Elizabeth McLeod <lizmcl@[removed] ]
  Re:Fu Manchu                          [ TedOTR@[removed] ]
  OTR on Cassette                       [ Davidinmemphis@[removed] (David) ]
  mp3s and collectors                   [ "Ian Grieve" <austotr@[removed]. ]

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 18:35:31 -0400
From: gad4@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Ovaltine [removed]


As far as I know, they were disposed of sometime around 1990.  Ovaltine
had a complete set of all the scripts, and they were neatly stored in a
series of file cabinets that filled a good part of what otherwise would
have been a conference room.  Nobody told me, but I suspect that when I
was reviewing them to gather data for my book, some of the scripts I was
handling hadn't been touched for decades before.

It's really a shame that items which we know about could be destroyed so
quickly in such a recent time. I'm hoping Steven or someone had the
opportunity to make copies of these scripts.  Were any copies of these
saved? In hindsite, was there anything we could have done differently? Could
copies of these scripts also be in the Library of Congress?

George

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 18:43:44 -0400
From: Tsunami1000@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Re: Eddie Cantor Trade For Unbroadcast Show
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As to the reader who is asking anyone for a copy of Eddie Cantor's unaired
show when President Roosevelt took over the airwaves, ditto for me, I am
seeking a copy, and I have a respectful holding to chose from in trade.   I
am also seeking Eddie Cantor broadcasts from the 30's and late to early 30's
and 40s, anyone?  I trade in cds, both mp3 and WAV.   Thanks, Jim Faulkner

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[ADMINISTRIVIA: There's no reason to trade anything; these copyrighted
recordings are available for sale from the Eddie Cantor Appreciation Society;
see [removed] for information.  --cfs3]

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 19:18:28 -0400
From: wich2@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Oh, my stars & garters!

From: John Francis MacEachern <johnfmac@[removed];

Just this past Christmas Eve,   WBZ in Boston ( a station recently acquired
by CBS) aired a recreation of Dickens' A Christmas Carol starring its on-air
staff. ...  If it were not for the horrible acting, I would  have thought
that I was listening to the CBSRMT. ... Until I listened to that show, I
never realized that I takes a lot more skill to be a radio actor than just
reading a script in front of a microphone.

Well, better late than never, I guess! I know I've spoken on this subject
before, but a Lister recently commanded me to "keep up the good fight", [removed]
I can't speak for the old days (maybe Hal and Harry would like to?); my guess
would be that there were pros & stinkers there- just as today. As for now, I
can only say that "of course!" there's more to it than just reading! Acting
is an art (or, at least, in Brando's description, a craft). My teacher Stella
used to say that "everyone in the world thinks they have too skills- their
real one, and acting." Would you expect just anyone to get out of their seat,
and instantly sing, paint, of write well? Our group of NY perfomers approach
the medium no less seriously than we would on stage, or before a camera.
True, it isn't magic; but it's real work, and anyone to does less sells short
a still-deserving medium.
Best,
Craig Wichman
Quicksilver Radio Theater
([removed] if you'd like to give our CAROL a shot, contact me off-list)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 19:36:44 -0400
From: "Ryan Osentowski" <rosentowski@[removed];
To: "old time radio" <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  two-part Dragnet

Hi all:
I was reading John Dunning's Encyclopedia of Old-time Radio and he mentioned
that there is a two-part episode of Dragnet in which Frank Smith (Ben
Alexander) is shot and almost dies.  He claims that fan response to this
program was overwhelming.  I have searched my entire Dragnet log and can
find no two-part episode in which Frank Smith is shot.  I own all of the
two-part programs and it isn't there.  Could Dunning have made a mistake?
Was this story a Dragnet television episode, but not on radio?  Perhaps it
was a two-parter with a different title for each episode.  If anyone can
give me some pointers here, I'd appreciate it.
Thanks.
RyanO

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 19:51:54 -0400
From: Rick Keating <pkeating89@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Bob Bailey

With regard to the mystery surrounding Bob Bailey's
life post Johnny Dollar, the public doesn't have the
right to know anything. Nor does the media. The only
people who have the right to know about Bob Bailey's
personal life are his family members. It's up to them
to decide if any such story should be told (though
given the general level of ignorance pervading this
country, most people would unfortunately not know who
Bob Bailey was).
  I write for a newspaper, but there are some things
that are absolutely off limits, no matter what an
editor might feel. One of them involves questions
about a subject's personal life, which 99 & 44/100
percent of the time have nothing to do with the
subject of the interview. Another thing that's off
limits is, of course, the interview with people who've
just lost a loved one. That, too, is not legitimate
news-- it's sensationalism. TV news is full of such
crap, which is why I no longer watch TV news. (If
people come to us to tell their story-- epecially in
the latter example-- that's different, but it's
inappropriate to intrude in such a way).
   I enjoy Johnny Dollar, and if Bob Bailey were still
alive and I had an opportunity to see him at a
convention and tell him that, I would. However,
neither I nor anyone else would have a right to know
details of his-- or anyone else's-- personal life.
Being a public figure does not mean every detail of a
person's life is public. If people who knew Bob Bailey
choose not to talk about his personal life, more power
to them. We don't have any right to know those details
any more so than we'd have a right to ask Hal Stone or
Harry Bartell (or any other OTR performer on this
list) to talk about their personal lives, just because
they're "public figures."

Rick

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 20:14:13 -0400
From: alo <alo@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Re: Ned Martin, 1923-2002

I'd just like to thank Elizabeth for her post about Ned Martin. I'm one of
the lucky New Englanders who grew up listening to him (how about you,
Arlene??) and it was special for me not just because of his skill as an
announcer (which I was far too young to gauge) but because it was an
activity I could share with my father. It's always been the most special of
memories for me.

Of course, the word "lucky" when applied to a Sox fan must be used
advisedly. When the weather turns cooler & September rears its ugly head,
the word "lucky" disappears entirely from the vocabulary of Red Sox Nation
(generally replaced with "wait 'til next year").

There is no greater optimism killer than to have been "born" a fan of the
Red Sox.

That being said, this is the year, folks. ;-)

Apologies for the ramble,
Amanda

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 21:12:18 -0400
From: Elizabeth McLeod <lizmcl@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  Re: Me and the Sox

On 7/25/02 6:51 PM OldRadio Mailing Lists wrote:

Is it possible that Elizabeth McLeod, the heretofore widely celebrated
voice on OTR interests and most insightful historian of one of the greatest
magic tricks of the 20th Century that was radio, is it possible she is also a
baseball fan?

Well, I don't know as I buy the first part of all that, but the last
question is true enough. If you're born to a working-class New England
family, in a dying fish-cannery-and-chicken-factory-stinking industrial
town, you are doomed to be a Red Sox fan -- simple as that. You don't
choose it. It's drilled into you like a catechism from earliest childhood
-- girl or boy, fat or skinny, short or tall, athletic or sedentary --
and it stays with you the rest of your life. You can deny it, ignore it,
pretend it doesn't matter, but if you walk into a grocery store and the
game is coming in over the radio behind the counter -- which it will be
-- you *will* listen. (And they're not the "Boston Red Sox" up here. My
grandmother taught me that the proper name is the "G-d D--n Red Sox." As
in "G-d D--n Red Sox blew another one.")

My earliest memory of radio is hearing Ned Martin and Ken Coleman calling
games during the 1967 pennant-winning season ("Hi neighbor, have a
'Gansett! Narragansett Lager Beer!" "Atlantic Keeps Your Car on the
Go-Go-Go, so Keep on the Go with Atlantic!"). I cried when Tony
Conigliaro got hit in the eye, and when Aparicio fell down rounding
third, and when  Johnson lifted Willoughby in the seventh game, and when
Dent hit that stupid pop fly into the net, and when  Buckner stood there
like a lawn ornament while the ball rolled between his legs. And when I
put in a tape of an old Martin-and-Woods broadcast yesterday, and
actually felt like I'd lost a member of the family.

If you read Doris Kearns Goodwin's book on her childhood as a Brooklyn
Dodger fan, it's exactly the same thing -- only old Dodger fans can even
begin to understand what it's like for us up here. It's not a game. It's
religion -- built on the basic teaching that you better make the most of
what little triumphs you can find, because life will *always* disappoint
you in the end.

Elizabeth

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 21:23:03 -0400
From: TedOTR@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Re:Fu Manchu
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Well, I was going to stay out of this but my name has been mentioned so many
times, I thought I'd better give my opinion.  When I was told about the FU
MANCHU discs I called the man that had them.  I had to pay $1,000 for the 11
hours of material.  I knew how things worked in the OTR world.  If you don't
get your investment back on the front end, you won't get it back at all.
After you send out the first few sets they are traded very quickly.  This is
not new - it happened this way long before MP3's were ever heard of.  I put
up the front money and arranged a Round Robin for the material.  I DID NOT
send out any sets until I had collected the money I had put out.  Then I
released them to the people on the Round Robin.  I am so glad that I did
because I have only sold 2 sets since that happened.  If I had not done it
this way, I would have been out that $1,000 that I paid for the discs.  I did
hear that the material was on the newsgroups for downloading in less than a
week after I had sent the material out.  I don't know if this is true as I
only heard it from someone I know.  I would not have known as I have never
downloaded any show from the net.  After all, why would I want a compressed
show when I have the uncompressed version in my collection?  I HAVE NEVER
seen a show in MP3 form that I didn't have in my collection.  Since 90% of my
collection is in 3rd generation or better I have no interest in MP3's at all,
since most of them are compressed from high generation dubs.  I am also over
50 and have health problems.  There is just not enough years left for me to
switch to another format.  Here is my slant on the MP3 situation.  Your OTR
collection is a very private thing.  Let's face it, the only person you have
to please with your collection is yourself.  No one else matters because it
is your collection. It is each individual's preference on how they want to
collect.  I don't have the right to say what format you should collect in and
you don't have the right to tell me what format I should have.  Personally, I
wouldn't have an MP3 if it was given to me.  That is my right.  It is your
right to collect in any format that you want.  I know what Steve Kelez is
saying and why he is saying it.  When a dealer makes a master tape he is
putting time and effort into it.  There is my own personal touch on every
tape I do.  When you are a dealer you are investing time and money in the
hopes of making a few dollars.  We have spent years acquiring the material,
upgrading sound quality, and replacing equipment so the customers can have
the best sound possible at a fair price.  Then that is taken and posted as
MP3's.  It makes you wonder whether or not you want to keep releasing the
material.  I am sitting on new material right now that I am not releasing
just for that reason.  Sound unfair to you?  I don't think that it's any more
unfair than taking someone's work and effort and passing it off as your own,
as some of these people are doing.  This has been much longer of a post than
I intended, but I would like to say one more thing.  We should back off of
the personal attacks.  All MP3 collectors are not thieves just as all other
collectors are not saints.  We need to find a way to work together as
friends.  The best friends I have made in my lifetime are the ones I have
made in collecting OTR.  They are the greatest group of people I have ever
known.  Let's show each other the respect that we all deserve.  Let's voice
our opinions without personal attacks.  Personal attacks are uncalled for
under any circumstances.

Ted Davenport
Radio Memories

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Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 01:24:15 -0400
From: Davidinmemphis@[removed] (David)
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  OTR on Cassette

I have been accumulating OTR on cassettes for about two years.  I am not
a serious collector but approach OTR from a nostalgic viewpoint choosing
only to archive those shows which I remember enjoying as a youngster
growing up in the 40's and 50's.  I would like to ask the posters to
this group,  am I one of a dying breed being left behind by todays
technology?  I do not have a computer at home and I have to be content
with downloading from sites while at work  and transferring to cassettes
as time permits.  I do this primarily in order to listen to the shows in
the car.

Do many collectors still utilize cassettes?  Should I break down and
invest in the advanced tools to keep from being left behind?
I would appreciate some feedback.  Thanks.

David

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 11:30:02 -0400
From: "Ian Grieve" <austotr@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  mp3s and collectors

In issue 287 Jim Widner made same great points and thankfully left out mp3
bias.

I think you mis-understand the issue and the nature of Steve's
response.

Possibly Jim, and Steven and I are discussing it off list hopefully to its
conclusion.

The cost of placing into circulation newly discovered programs
such as the Fu Manchu need to somehow be offset

I understand that and I do not in any way disagree.  The persons going to
the trouble to buy the originals, encode them and make them available,
deserve to be able to recover their costs plus.  My only disagreement is
that mp3 'freeloaders' are to blame for all the things they are being blamed
for.

Once they were restored the agreed upon format was standard
uncompressed audio CDs. If there had been enough interest in also
providing mp3 versions, perhaps there might have been a conversion into
that format. The standard uncompressed audio met the standards of all
who bought in.

I don't think mp3 is a good medium for selling otr and recovering costs.
mp3 is a 'listening' medium and should be 'free' and a 'stepping stone' to
'real' mediums for collecting.  The trick isn't for Dealers to make
everything available in mp3 and cheap in order to survive in the changing
market, the trick is to make the shows more attractive to buyers and make
the buyers want to pay more.  I guess it is the difference between the
hobbiest dealer and the professional dealer how to react to changing
markets.  Pointing the finger at mp3 collectors who want to listen to and
collect shows for free and blaming them for dwindling sales or for driving
dealers and clubs out of business just doesn't make sense.  These people
were never clients in the first place.  Why don't the dealers and clubs look
at the increasing numbers joining the hobby and wonder "what can I do to get
them to buy from me?"  Here's a hint, stop calling them freeloaders and
blaming them for wanting to collect in  mp3.

There is no reason why a dealer cannot sell a CD with a professional cover,
booklette with information on the show, a good looking interface for those
who want to pop it into the computer as well as listen in their standard
audio players.  Find out what the people want and offer it, they will pay
for what they want if you convince them.

All the attitude of blaming mp3 and saying it is poor quality will cause, is
make the mp3 people improve their encoding methods so that mp3 is equal to
anything a dealer can provide on audio Cd and that will really kill the
market.

The issue that Steve made of George's comment and subsequently yours in
an earlier post implied if they ever come up "for free" you'd want to
get in on them. Steve asked the question, which went unanswered: "Why
not simply buy them from Radio Memories?"  Then if you want to convert
them to mp3, that would be your choice.  This way RM continues to
recoup any cost incurred.

True, but I don't want to buy them.  Not because I want them on CD for free,
but because I personnally would prefer to buy the originals not copies.  I
would accept them in mp3 to listen to, but they do not fit my criterior to
spend money on.  For the same reasons they do not fit my criteria to convert
from audio to mp3.  I am a bit confused here as originally when someone did
buy them and convert them to mp3, there was a posting here blaming mp3
rather than the person who broke trust, please don't suggest I do the same
:)  If Ted sold me something and asked me not to convert it to mp3 I would
have to honour his request if I then bought it.

If someone converted them and offered to sell them to you, would you
buy them?  Especially, if they were first generation from the discs?
Some might, but many would rather wait until they can get that same
quality for free - and the Internet makes it all so easy to do so.

Personally No.  I am buying Australian OTR and do not have enough money for
that, let along buying [removed] OTR.  But would I collect them in mp3 and listen
to them, yes.  Would I share them with others for free? Yes, would I sell
them in ANY format? No.

The last time I think I was midunderstood. I am not opposed to mp3
(though personally I will not collect on it - just use it to listen).
My concern is for the diminished incentive for someone to find and make
available such discoveries as the Fu Manchu if they know their time and
effort and ability to sell to recoup their cost will be impaired.

I understand you are not opposed to mp3, nor I to Dealers and audio CDs.  I
am opposed to mp3 collectors being branded 'freeloaders' and statements that
they are not contributing to the hobby.  I too am concerned at losing
dealers, or others locking up their collections in case the fiendish mp3ers
are about.  I think the only way to overcome this is for ground  rules to be
placed on distributions and that they be honoured.  Also for more discussion
and less namecalling :)

At the end of the day Jim, you and I do not differ at all that I can see.
Now we need to get everybody else to agree :)

Ian Grieve

--------------------------------
End of [removed] Digest V2002 Issue #288
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