Subject: [removed] Digest V01 #61
From: <[removed]@[removed]>
Date: 2/23/2001 7:52 AM
To: <[removed]@[removed];

------------------------------


                      The Old-Time Radio Digest!
                         Volume 01 : Issue 61
                   A Part of the [removed]!
                           ISSN: 1533-9289


                           Today's Topics:

 ADMINISTRIVIA: [removed]              [Charlie Summers <charlie@[removed]]
 Bob & Ray                            [Sheryl Smith <sheryllsmith@earthlin]
 Re: [removed] tube site        [LDunham509@[removed]                 ]
 Old Radio Records                    [Arthur Smith <agsmith_stl@[removed]]
 Remember Wenn                        ["Art Shifrin" <goldens2@[removed]]
 Re: interview records                ["Jerry Salley" <jlsalley@[removed];  ]
 Radio Restoration -- a Wrinkle or Tw ["Stephen A Kallis, Jr." <skallisjr@]
 Calling all Cars                     ["Ryan Hall" <thepezman@[removed];]
 Tubes                                [Bill Harris <billhar@[removed];    ]
 Radio Spirits                        [StevenL751@[removed]                 ]
 DANGEROUS RADIOS!                    ["Owens Pomeroy" <opomeroy@[removed]; ]
 Cincinnati Convention                [Lennell Herbert-Marshall <HerMars@e]
 Re: Remember WENN                    [LDunham509@[removed]                 ]

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 22:28:44 -0500
From: Charlie Summers <charlie@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  ADMINISTRIVIA: [removed]

Folks;

   Yes, I know, I am _really_ [removed]'ve been promising a note here for a
while, and a message on the OldRadio Mailing List (our sister list) with
results of the survey taken there, but there never seem to be enough hours in
a day. So here are a few short [removed]

   First off, the OTR Digest has been granted an ISSN (International Standard
Serial Number; like an ISBN only for serialized publications), proudly listed
at the top of the page. I have it on pretty good authority that we are one of
the longest-running email publications to receive [removed], the first
issue of the OTR Digest was released in September, 1994. Gad, my hair was
mostly black way back [removed]  ;)

   Next, for those of you who have been gently reminding me that I need to
get off my patoots and get The Kinescope [removed] news, no more
excuses! Although the list "formally" opens on Monday, and postings to the
list before then will be held until then, subscriptions ARE now being
[removed] the risk of bringing the server to its very knees with the
onslaught.  ;)

   To subscribe to the intercative list, send the word SUBSCRIBE in the
SUBJECT of an email message to kine-l-request@[removed] - or if this link
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   To suibscribe to the digested version of the list, send the word SUBSCRIBE
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   Either way, you should receive your confirmation message from the server
directly. You should also receive a short note about the list - as always, if
there's anything you don't understand, or have any questions, please drop me
a note directly either at this address or at listmaster@[removed], and I'll
answer you as quickly as possible.

   I'd also like to take a moment to thank those folks who have contributed
to the server lease and bandwidth fees - it is greatly appreciated! We gladly
accept checks and we also have a PayPal account (see
[removed] for information), but we do _not_
have a Yahoo!PayDirect account, and won't be getting one. Let me briefly
explain why.

   Signing up for _anything_ at Yahoo! requires giving their computers an
incredible amount of personal information. Recently, eGroups (used to be
OneList) was taken over by Yahoo!, and I was offered the opportunity to
"convert" my accounts. When I tried, though, I had to create a Yahoo! ID,
which required my browser to accept cookies from Yahoo! (allowing them to
track _everything_ I do on the _entire_ family of Yahoo! websites and tie it
_directly_ to me!), and fill in a demographic form asking me for _way_ too
much personal information (whether I'm male or female is bad enought; what I
do for a living is none of their darned business) so the cookie could attach
the invasive information they collect to a [removed] at least a marketing
target. Since I completely _refuse_ to supply such personal information, and
_refuse_ to allow my browser to accept persistant cookies, and there was no
option _not_ to supply it or accept it, I couldn't even convert my
[removed] so haven't.

   To allow them to tie that invasive information they require directly to my
credit cards and bank accounts is absolutely [removed] will NOT supply
one company with all that information about me, without having some federal
privacy protection ion place (remember, the companies now say, "Trust us,"
but there are NO laws in place to protect you from them using this
information in any way they choose!).

   So let's talk a minute about the personal information _we_ collect and how
we use it. We maintain your email address, since it's impossible to send the
OTR Digest to you without it. Sometimes, I will use that email address to
send you personal email, usually on the rare occasions when I actually know
the answer to a question. And we're pretty confident you love Old-Time Radio,
since you're subscribed to this list.

   Yep, that's it. That's all the personal information about you we collect
on our servers. We don't ask if your male or female, how much money you make,
or whether you're a butcher, baker, or candlestick maker. We need an email
address, and you need a love for OTR - that is the sum total of the
requirements. And I promise you that will _continue_ to be all we ask.

   Could we make money by asking for your life history? You bet we could;
there are companies who would pay big for that information. But then, I don't
think I could look at myself in the mirror in the morning, either. So not
only will I not be generating a Yahoo!PayDirect account, but I certainly
wouldn't ask YOU to give them all that information just to contribute to the
operation of the mailing list. I hope those of you who asked about
Yahoo!PayDirect will understand.

   More in a couple of [removed] don't forget to join The Kinescope!

         Charlie

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 09:41:51 -0500
From: Sheryl Smith <sheryllsmith@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Bob & Ray

I've started a database project to try to catalogue all the complete
shows of
Bob & Ray that I can find.  I've spoken to Larry Josephson, their NPR
producer and the owner of their official site, and he's mostly
interested in skits for his (wonderful!) collections--he has a database
of the skits he's used, but nobody seems to have found out how many
complete shows are left.  I'd like to do that, if only because I'd like
to be sure that everything that's still around, stays around.  To judge
from my conversation with Larry J. (and with a few other OTR people),
there may be a conservancy problem with this material.  Larry J. said he
has things that he hasn't had time or $ to catalogue, and this may be
true of others as well.  And I'm also getting the idea that not all OTR
collectors are safeguarding what may be unique materials with off-site
digital backups.

So, as I said, I've started a database project to try to catalogue what
I can
locate:  I've gotten tapes from several sources, and CD-ROMs as well
(more
coming), and am also recording the contents of the shows and am trying
to
resolve issues where the dates attached to the shows are inconsistent or
obviously wrong.  I'm particularly enamored of the WHDH shows, and have
listened to enough of them already so that I'm beginning to get a sense
of what was going on there, so may even be able to help place
uncatalogued stuff from there at some point.  I am at least beginning to
find some that are circulating with duplicate or bogus dates, and in
some cases can

Eventually I'd like to make what I find out available to the OTR
community--and the database I designed for it has also grown into
something that could help OTR dealers and archivists track their
material, so that will be around as well.  OTR is clearly a cultural
heritage, so would like to contribute a little bit to the efforts of you
hobbyists and dealers to preserve and distribute it.

I also am having so much fun listening to Bob & Ray! and would like to
make sure this pleasure remains open to others.  I heard them first in
the 80s when they were on NPR, and was taken with them then.  But I
never heard any of their earlier work till recently, and never realized
there was *so much* original material!--in the 80s they were focusing
more on a core repertoire of favorites, but the quality of what got left
behind is staggering--and the dazzling improv from WHDH was a
revelation. These guys are still in present time if anyone is--and
though many people of my (baby-boomer) generation and have heard them,
few seem to have heard them lately. And there's a younger generation out
there who haven't heard them at all--and need to.  The media voices they
mocked are still the same, only they're taking themselves more seriously
than ever.  It's weird, but no one recently seems to have seen through
them as well as Bob & Ray did forty-odd years ago.

Sorry for droodling on like this, but despite my inexperience, I'm doing
my best to look for complete shows by date.  At present I'm not even
completely sure of what there is to be found, and am certainly not far
enough along to be really clear about what I'm missing. Some people on
this list already know about this project, because I've talked to them
by email, and most have been extremely nice to me--particularly those
who are fans of Bob & Ray, and there are thankfully many.  Whether you
are or you aren't, if there's anything you can do for me, or any
suggestions you have about others I might talk to, I'd appreciate it
greatly.

Thanks for listening anyway.

Sheryl Smith

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 09:41:54 -0500
From: LDunham509@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Re: [removed] tube site

A neighbor of mine has an extensive supply of OEM, NOS, etc. tubes. His
 website address is [removed]

You might wish to contact your neighbor to get the rest of the web address.
[removed] is an Internet provider here in Central Illinois, and hosts
web sites, but to reach a particular web site hosted there requires a more
specific address.

Larry Dunham

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 10:41:25 -0500
From: Arthur Smith <agsmith_stl@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Old Radio Records

Concerning "Interview Records", I believe it was
Johnny Carson who told the story that when he was on
radio in Nebraska, they were often sent these bogus
interview records to localize the celebrity. He said
in at least one instance, he made up questions that
would have litle to do with the "real" questions.
Humor resulted, the rest is history.
Actually they still do that today with video. I
watched an interview done by a local St. Louis
entertainment reviewer one night and saw the same
interview done by a Florida entertainment reviewer the
next night (in Florida of course) They must send the
tape and backdrop (to match the celebrity) from place
to place or it is probably a part of a media kit.

Just my 2 cents.

Art

Oh, by the way, I am 52 yrs old and am not a tv snob,
in fact I have a passion for many forms of
entertainment mainly older stuff. Does anyone know of
any groups similar to this (I know that there is no
way any could be as educational as this one) that
discuss old tv, movies (mainly serials and lower
budget films) etc. I would appreciate any help, even
though I am asking for info of "the other medium"

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 11:00:49 -0500
From: "Art Shifrin" <goldens2@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  Remember Wenn

Hi Gang,

It didn't purport to be a documentary.  I suspect that any realistic
portrayal of a typical brodcast day of US pre-TV radio broadcasting would be
quite boring.  It was an entertaining diversion for the most part.
What's more entertaining: a typical high quality PBS nature special on
animal life in equatorial islands, or King Kong?

Best,
Shiffy
check out my website: [removed]

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 11:00:46 -0500
From: "Jerry Salley" <jlsalley@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  Re: interview records

 RE:
I got one extremely interesting 45 RPM disk (and why 45? beats me).
It was apparently some sort of interview for local music stations.  It
started with a Hawaiian personality saying "Hello," followed by a
significant length of silence.
<SNIP>
The only thing I can think of was that a local disk jockey had a
script, so that it would seem to the listeners that the person on the record
was being interviewed in the DJ's studio.  Never ran into the like again.
Stephen A. Kallis, Jr.
-----------------------------
I've still got a 45 of Lorne Green doing a one-sided interview complete with
the script we were sent so we could "interview" him.  It's in a picture
sleeve even!  The time frame dictated that it would be a 45, as is probably
the case in your record.  Radio stations could play other formats (we had
reel-to-reel and turntables that played 33-45-78 along with tape carts
similar to what became 8 track) but almost all music was on a 45.  This
wasn't OTR related - maybe sort of borderline - because we got it in the
early 60's when it was a double-promotion for his tv series "Bonanza" and
his hit record "Ringo."  This sort of thing wasn't really rare, but it
wasn't common either.  The station I was at was the no-longer existing WKDL
"Sweet 16" (1600am) in Clarksdale, Mississippi.  We were a daytime station
(dawn to dusk) and block programing at the time:  3 hours of rock followed
by 3 hours of middle of the road followed by news (national, local, farm)
and the closest we came to what would today be OTR [removed] (pause for
effect)  Paul [removed]
Good [removed]
Jerry Salley
And, oh, by the way, we never played the interview.  After all, in my
misspent youth I was much more interested in Elvis and Little Richard.  Oh,
the shame of it.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 11:22:00 -0500
From: "Stephen A Kallis, Jr." <skallisjr@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Radio Restoration -- a Wrinkle or Two ...

Mark Kinsler, speaking of old radios and their restoration,

The restoration of an old radio is a rather tricky business and always
expensive.  That's because most of the insides must be replaced because
of age: every capacitor, every high-value resistor, and as many of the
coils as can be managed must be removed and replaced by new components
which look
reasonably authentic.

Ah ... this brings up a problem I hadn't thought of: what's the level of
authenticity on a "restoration"?  For instance, in almost any old
tube-style radio I've seen the insides of, there's a sheet-metal chassis
with sockets for tubes, tuning capacitor assembly, and sometimes some
electrolytic capacitors visible.  Now of this chassis is removed from the
cabinet or case, on the other side are resistors, capacitors, and any
other components needed to make the radio function (transformers,
rectifiers, etc.).  So suppose I find such an old radio, and decide to
replace the resistors, capacitors, and other nontube components.  If I
use modern components that are easier to come by and possibly have a
longer lifespan, when the chassis is reinstalled, the radio will work as
well as with older components, and the more modern stuff is not visible.
Is this not sufficient to count?

I could get an old radio working again, but I just repaired--I didn't
restore, and something else was likely to fail again fairly soon.  When I
realized this, I stopped repairing tube equipment of any type.

Okay, now I'm a nostalgist, but try to be realistic.  If I have an old
tube radio and get it operational with current, reliable, components, I
could again regain the cheery glow of the radios of yesteryear -- but is
it "restored"?  If I could take it back in time and show it to an average
consumer of the time, he or she wouldn't be able to detect the difference
in terms of appearance (after all, the new components are out of sight)
or performance.  (Note: "average consumer" clearly eliminates electronic
engineers, technicians, repairmen, or radio amateurs.)

Is the radio "restored" sufficiently for an average OTR enthusiast?  Or
does "restore" go all the way to nothing but stuff from the era?

An allied question concerns "fixing" old radios.  Suppose someone finds
the remnants of an old radio, and fills it with modern stuff, so that
although he or she receives radio, nothing back of the front of the case
or cabinet has a bit of glass in it.  Possibly, the "fixer" adds a
cassette and/or CD drive that can't be seen from the front.  The front
looks like the old radio, and basically operates like the old radio
functionally (not counting the hidden drive[s].)  What would you call the
resulting thing?  A replica, even though some of it's original parts?  A
simulacrum?  Any ideas?

Stephen A. Kallis, Jr.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 17:23:21 -0500
From: "Ryan Hall" <thepezman@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  Calling all Cars

I just listened to an episode of Calling all Cars for the first time, and
was impressed. I would love to acquire some more of these. If anyone has
some of these episodes in MP3 and interested in trading, please let me know.
[removed]

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 17:47:52 -0500
From: Bill Harris <billhar@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Tubes

Mark Kinsler commented:

Those of us who actually had to work with them don't miss tubes one
bit.

Well, not all of us. I still enjoy bringing an old vintage tube set back
to life and had much rather work with tube equipment
than modern solid state stuff. I had enough of that when I used to
service large mainframe computer systems. I continue
to be amazed by modern technology and what it can do and enjoy using it,
such as the computer I am typing this on, but
as far as working on modern technology, I prefer to leave that up to
others, I'll take the tube stuff any [removed]

they required a minimum of a 200 watt power supply,

Not hardly, the average tube type table set will draw less that 100
watts, more like 50-75 watts. A large console set
might draw a 100+ watts.

The restoration of an old radio is a rather tricky business and always
expensive.  That's because most of the insides
must be replaced because of age: every capacitor, every high-value
resistor, and as many of the coils as can be
managed must be removed and replaced by new components which look
reasonably authentic

All capacitors should be replaced and as you say any resistors that are
out of specs (I find I have to replace very few resistors)
As far as coils there is no need to replace any coils unless they have
opened up or been damaged. You will be hard pressed to
find new replacement coils for vintage radios except those you can
scavenge from another set. I could count on one hand and
have fingers left over the times I had to find a replacement coil in the
many sets I have restored.

and something else was likely to fail again fairly soon.  When I
realized this, I stopped repairing tube equipment of
any type.

Many of these old sets played for years without any trouble, and once
repaired will do the same again. I have sets that
I have been playing on a daily basis for years without any failures.
Just a note about tubes and their reliability. Most
assume that if an old radio isn't playing it probably 'needs a tube'. I
seldom find that  a bad tube the reason a vintage
set does not play. I have sets with tubes manufactured over 60 years ago
and still work fine.
Tubes are very reliable, but I will admit, solid state technology is
even more reliable.

I mention this because there is a certain amount of hobby activity in
the old radio business, and there are some shady
operators engaged in it.  The appropriate newsgroup is
[removed]+phono. Some good and some
not-so-good people have participated therein

I participate in this group on a regular basis and in defense of the
members the group, as as a whole the active posters to that group are
good bunch of vintage
radio collectors and nothing shady about them. They are just interested
in pursuing their hobby and sharing information of restoring these
vintage
pieces of radio history. You may find some shady operators who are
dealers, and not collectors, there are always exceptions in every case.

Bill Harris

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 18:17:07 -0500
From: StevenL751@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Radio Spirits

For those of you interested in the latest news of Radio Spirits and their
rights battles, take a look at this recent article from the [removed] Times:

[removed]

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 00:12:46 -0500
From: "Owens Pomeroy" <opomeroy@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  DANGEROUS RADIOS!

        I wonder how many of us have a memory long enough to recall that in
the very early years of radio, those house without electricity had battery
operated ones.  I remember my Granddad lived on a farm in Virginia and had
"outdoor pluming" hence, no electricity.

        He purchased a breadboard 3-dial radio that was powered by - are you
ready for this? WET BATTERIES! As far as I can remember the batteries were
three vats with, I believe sulfuric  acid in them, in which copper plates
were placed to conduct the electricity. He had to build a "box" over the
vats to keep us kids from knocking against them and seriously burning us. I
can remember the "white stuff" (corrosion) on the copper plates that had to
be replaced about once a month.

       He had this set for about 5 years until the dry battery sets came out
with the hugh dry cells, that powered the radio. He bought a much smaller
set that was powered by these dry cells, with an option that could be
converted to electricity, which was finally installed in Granddad's home.
Thinking back on these really vintage radios that were powered by these wet
batteries, it is a wonder that we grandkids did not suffer a severe accident
with the acid in those vats!  I am sure, still that a lot of wet battery
owners did suffer acid burns when the copper plates had to be changed and
the sulfuric acid replaced.

                                -  30  -

Owens Pomeroy

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 00:12:44 -0500
From: Lennell Herbert-Marshall <HerMars@[removed];
To: Old Time Radio Digest <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  Cincinnati Convention

For those of you who are going to the Cincinnati Convention, the $75 per
room rate is for Thursday through Saturday nights only.  However, if you
are one of those like myself who come in on Wednesday, they have another
special rate of $79 that can be combined with the $75 convention rate.

I'm looking forward to another great convention and to seeing those of
you that I only see once a year.

Lennell H-M

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 09:26:52 -0500
From: LDunham509@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Re: Remember WENN

Michael Biel had this to say about "Remember WENN"
 As the series wore on it became evident that the writers had little
 knowledge of what really went on in radio

 Bill Harris wrote--
 Agree completely, I only watched a few episodes and this show was
 probably the farthest thing from an accurate portrayal of a radio
 station of that era. I found the plots to be over acted and silly at
 best.

I'm not certain ''Remember WENN'' -was- intended to convey an accurate
impression of a radio station, any more than TV's ''WKRP In Cincinnati'' was,
in its era.  The station merely provided a backdrop for the Rupert ''Piņa
Colada'' Holmes scripts.  Personally, I think the quirky characters were
delightful; the overacting was intentional, to create caricatures of the
characters; and the period setting merely gave the show a more offbeat look.
Yes, it was campy at times--I liked it that way--but it could also be very
tender.  I've seen the Christmas episode with Betty Buckley several times,
and have never failed to be touched.

Larry Dunham

--------------------------------
End of [removed] Digest V01 Issue #61
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