Subject: [removed] Digest V2003 #32
From: "OldRadio Mailing Lists" <[removed]@[removed];
Date: 1/21/2003 11:13 PM

To: <[removed]@[removed];

    ------------------------------

                                The Old-Time Radio Digest!
                                  Volume 2003 : Issue 32
                             A Part of the [removed]!
                                     ISSN: 1533-9289

                                     Today's Topics:

      Adam and Eve                          [ "A. Joseph Ross" <lawyer@attorneyro ]
      Great Gildersleeve war bulletin       [ "Andrew Godfrey" <niteowl049@[removed] ]
      Optical Sound Recording Details       [ "Stephen A Kallis, Jr." <skallisjr@ ]
      1940's Laser Disks?                   [ Bill Harris <radioguy@[removed] ]
      Comedy That's Still Funny in the 21s  [ Herb Harrison <herbop@[removed] ]
      "Ozzie & Harriet's " longevity:       [ Derek Tague <derek@[removed]; ]
      It's Getting Crowded!                 [ "Stephen A Kallis, Jr." <skallisjr@ ]
      Not On Your Stereotype                [ "Stephen A Kallis, Jr." <skallisjr@ ]
      Nostalgia Digest                      [ Edward Loyer <eloyer@[removed]; ]
      Re: Broderick Crawford                [ hal stone <dualxtwo@[removed]; ]
      Re: Age of audience                   [ hal stone <dualxtwo@[removed]; ]
      Re: ad lib Murmers                    [ hal stone <dualxtwo@[removed]; ]
      Re: Clarabell on Howdy Doody Show     [ "MICHAEL BIEL" <mbiel@[removed]; ]
      Re: A Crenna tid-bit                  [ hal stone <dualxtwo@[removed]; ]
      Kate on Gunsmoke                      [ Rob Chatlin <rchatlin@[removed] ]
      Hal Stone's Book                      [ "jsouthard" <jsouthard@[removed]; ]
      Today in radio history                [ Joe Mackey <joemackey108@[removed] ]
      Chuck Schaden                         [ Dennis W Crow <DCrow3@[removed] ]
      Re: Murmuring and Mumbling            [ Joe Mackey <joemackey108@[removed] ]
      XM and Sirius Satellite OTR, a compa  [ "Bob Watson" <crw912@[removed]; ]

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 07:03:52 -0500
    From: "A. Joseph Ross" <lawyer@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Adam and Eve

>     Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 22:11:52 -0500
>     From: Kenneth Clarke <kclarke5@[removed];

>               I've been told the penalties imposed by the censors could be
>     quite stiff.  The one example which jumps immediately to mind is the
>     infamous "Adam and Eve" incident.  ...
>     I've listened to this skit and
>     can't understand what censors found so objectionable about it.

    This skit actually aired, which means it actually passed the censors.  Mae West was quite
    well known from her movies, and it's clear that she was hired with full knowledge that she
    would play the kind of character she always played.  Indeed, the writer of the skit obviously
    wrote it that way.

    The problem wasn't with network censors, it was with some elements of the general public,
    who reacted with outrage at the incident.  I can't quite tell what the problem was myself, but I
    think it had to do with the ending, after eating the apple, when Adam suddenly sees Eve in a
    new way. If you know the Bible story, you know that Adam, now awakened to sexual desire,
    is seeing Eve naked.  This was in an era when, according to a contemporary Gallup poll, a
    significant minority of the population still thought it improper for =men= to appear on public
    beaches in topless bathing suits.

    NBC was called before Congressional committees and had to eat crow in public.  They
    blamed Mae West and wouldn't allow her on radio for many years.  It clearly wasn't her fault --
     she just did what she was hired to do.  But it was easier to make her the scapegoat than to
    take the blame themselves.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 07:07:13 -0500
    From: "Andrew Godfrey" <niteowl049@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Great Gildersleeve war bulletin

      Yesterday I was listening to a Great Gildersleeve show but before the show
    started the network broke in with a war bulletin but didn't broadcast it.
    Instead Hal Peary made small talk with audience talking about how they were
    going to have to talk fast during the show since they had lost time because
    of the bulletin. As much as I enjoyed hearing Hal talking to audience it
    seemed like the war bulletin would be too important to not broadcast it.
    Andrew Godfrey

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 07:04:20 -0500
    From: "Stephen A Kallis, Jr." <skallisjr@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Optical Sound Recording Details

    Mark Kinsler, speaking of optical sound recordings, observed,

>     I distinctly recall reading the description of a pocket-sized version
>     of such a device: the film was mounted on reels and presumably driven at
>     a steady rate, instead of being grabbed one frame at a time as it would
>     in movie work.

    Well, a soundtrack in "movie work" always passed by the optical sensor at
    a steady rate.  The sound track is 26 frames ahead of the picture on 16mm
    film, and there's a loop both below and above the film gate to help
    smooth the motion.  The film passed over a stabilizer to a sound drum,
    which had an inertial component to ensure that the film passage would be
    smooth.  One of my production cameras is an Auricon Cine-Voice 200, which
    used this method for sound recording; all optical sound movie projectors
    use this scheme, too.  Prior to magnetic tape, "double system" optical
    sound movies were made using a separate sound-on-film recorder that, like
    the device Mark recalls, was driven at a steady state without any
    intermittent motion.

>     I can only assume that the device I saw was meant to somehow compete
>     with magnetic tape, and perhaps it was superior in audio quality to the
>     small tape recorders of the era.

    Such a device, if driven by a synchronous motor, would be useful in film
    work during the editing process.  It would be impractical as a recorder
    because the recording time would be very short.  100 feet of 16mm film
    running at sound speed (24 frames per second) is roughly 2 minutes and 46
    seconds; hardly practical as a tape recorder substitute.

    Stephen A. Kallis, Jr.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 07:07:51 -0500
    From: Bill Harris <radioguy@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  1940's Laser Disks?

    John Mayer <mayer@[removed]; writes:

>     To: [removed]@[removed]

>     The recent discussion of sending faxes in the early years of the last
>     century reminded me of another seeming anachronism, not strictly OTR
>     but a "record player" that was advertised around the late 40's as
>     playing sound with light rather than needles. I assume this was some
>     variation of the sound track on movie films rather than an actual
>     laser (which I'm pretty sure was invented later, but this group is
>     constantly surprising me with information as to how far back some
>     inventions go). Obviously, this technology never caught on. Does
>     anyone know anything about it?

    This is probably refering to the Philco "Beam of Light" introduced
    in 1941 in some of their models of radio/phonographs. This used a
    small light bulb, whose filament was powered from an ultrasonic
    oscillator to avoid inducing hum, a photo cell, and a small
    mirror. The stylus was attatched to the mirror which modulated the
    light beam upon the photocell whose output fed the audio
    amplifier. This was supposed to reduce noise pickup. The light,
    mirror and photo cell were all mounted in the tone arm. It was
    more of a marketing gimmik as it worked no better than the
    standard magnetic cartridge pickup.
    No lazer disk involved, just the standard 78's platters.

    Bill H.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 07:19:03 -0500
    From: Herb Harrison <herbop@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Comedy That's Still Funny in the 21st Century

    John Mayer <mayer@[removed]; likes "The Bickersons". I've heard a
    couple of the shows, and I liked them a lot; they remind me of
    "discussions" I've had with certain [removed] especially this "quote" I
    manufactured, supposedly from a  supervisor that I continually butted heads
    with:
    <I know you believe you understand what you think I said, but I am not sure
    you realize that what you heard is not what I [removed];
    Anyway, two questions:
    Can anyone give us a short history of the OTR series, and was it tried as a
    TV show?
    Are there any sites online where I can hear more of "The Bickersons" episodes?
    Thanks,

    Herb Harrison

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 14:44:57 -0500
    From: Derek Tague  <derek@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  "Ozzie & Harriet's " longevity:

    Hi Gang:

        Over tis past week-end, I've been  hearing stories about how the Fox TV
    network has renewed its cornerstorn series "The Simpsons" for two more
    seasons, which will make it TV's longest-running sitcom after it completes its
    current season, it's 14th, and, thus, surpasses "The Adventures of Ozzie and
    Harriet."
        But, let's look at the numbers:
        According to the book "The Complete Encyclopedia of Television
    Programs, 1947-1979," "O&H" clocked in 435 filmed episodes(!) of which 290
    are syndicated over its 14-year run from 1952  to 1966.  "The Simpsons" are
    going to be  marking their 300th episode next month [It's amazing how it just
    happens to air during "sweeps"  month].
        "The Simpsons" was a mid-season replacement! It's first season of 13
    episodes debuted in early January 1990 after a Christmass  special.
         The operative word, here, is TELEVISION. Nobody in the media seems to be
    taking into account that "O&H" that, acc. to Dunning/"TIY",made its
    RADIO debut on 10/08/1944, the Nelsons' 9th wedding anniversary, and left the
    air in 1954. Not counting the two-season overlap (simulcasts? re-adapted TV
    scripts from 1952-54), "Ozzie & Harriet" ran an astounding 22 years! Of
    course, "Amos 'n' Andy" & "the Jack Benny Program" still outdistance the
    Nelsons when one accounts for the cumalitive OTR/TV runs, but, come on, Mr.
    Groening, et. al., give "Ozzie & Harriet" their  due regardless of how
    "white-bread" its critics have always called it.
        Don't get me wrong. I DO like "The Simpsons." Even a mediocre "Simpsons"
    script is better than the best episode of "Friends" or "Will & Grace."

    Yours in the ether--

    Derek Tague

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 14:45:34 -0500
    From: "Stephen A Kallis, Jr." <skallisjr@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  It's Getting Crowded!

    Al Grant, speaking of crowd noises, asks

>     I heard somewhere that they just said "Rhubarb, rhubarb" but I don't
>     know if that's true.  Do any of you know the answer?

    This has been answered variously.  I participated in a crowd-noise
    experiment in my youth: half of us said "rhubarb"; the other half,
    "Walla-Walla."  Sounded pretty impressive.

    Stephen A, Kallis, Jr.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 14:46:14 -0500
    From: "Stephen A Kallis, Jr." <skallisjr@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Not On Your Stereotype

    John Mayer notes,

>     "Stephen A Kallis, Jr." <skallisjr@[removed]; mentioned anti-Japanese
>     stereotypes in the OTR ear.

    Actually, I was commenting on the fact that During World War II, OTR
    shows gave what a writer called "negative presentations" of Japanese.  My
    point wasn't any stereotypes, but that someone was remarking that wartime
    enemies were being viewed "negatively" during the conflict.

    During war, in some kinds of dramatic shows, it becomes relatively easy
    to develop villains.  One just has to make them connected to, or part of,
    the forces one's country is at war with.  The bad guys can be soldiers,
    spies, or saboteurs.  And indeed, in World War II, they were.  And not
    restricted to Japanese villains, either.  David Harding, Counterspy,
    faced at least as many German menaces than Japanese, for one trivial
    example.  In fact, in some Terry and the Pirates adventures, despite that
    the action was in the Orient, the villains often were German.

    In the Captain Midnight saga, the writers didn't restrict the villainous
    behavior just to the Axis.  Both The Barracuda and Ivan Shark acted
    during the war.  Neither was ideological, but was after money.  In fact,
    though he adopted Oriental ways, The Barracuda was a Caucasian.  No
    stereotyping there.

    Stephen A. Kallis, Jr.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 14:47:11 -0500
    From: Edward Loyer <eloyer@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Nostalgia Digest

    Anybody who has not seen Nostalgia Digest should accept Chuck Schaden's
    kind offer of a complementary copy. It is a great publication and one you
    will look forward to finding in your mail box every two months when you
    subscribe. Ed Loyer

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 14:49:02 -0500
    From: hal stone <dualxtwo@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Re: Broderick Crawford

    There was an interesting posting a few days ago commenting about Highway
    Patrols,Broderick Crawford, and his battle with booze. It's strange that
    mention of his alcohol addiction should come up at this time. I learned a
    great deal about that problem over the holidays in conversation with a very
    close mutual friend, Skip Homeier. As a matter of fact, Broderick Crawford
    was Skip Homeier's Best Man when Skip married Della. Skip was recounting to
    me all the problems that Crawfords' friends had trying to keep him sober
    during the shooting of "Highway Patrol". Aside from that, he was well liked,
    and had a dynamic personality. And was a good friend to those he cared
    about. As a matter of fact, he used his clout and got Skippy his first
    directing jobs at Ziv TV.

    Demon Rum got in the way of many careers. Ironically, it also affected
    Crawfords young co-star in "Born Yesterday". I wonder if they both headed
    for the nearest watering hole following a long hard day in front of the
    cameras.

    Hal(Harlan)Stone
    Jughead

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 14:49:42 -0500
    From: hal stone <dualxtwo@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Re: Age of audience

    Ted M (welsa) asked

>     A question for the eternal Jughead.

    Is that infernal, or eternal? :)

>     Hal, what, in your memory, was the average age range for the studio audience
>     of Archie.

    More than likely, the same age that purchased the comic book. Archie Comic
    Publications demographics show that age to be between 7 and 14. Of course,
    we had a few younger than that show up in the audience, and naturally, a few
    older than 14. (The infamous "Mrs. Miller" was an audience regular, and she
    was in her late 60's.) :)

>     it would seem that your audiences should have by-and-large been junior high
>     age kids.  I'm just wondering if that's what they were.

    I seem to recall the vast majority were on the cusp of Jr. High. During the
    many years the show was on the air, the kids in the audience seemed to be
    getting younger and younger. (Not true however). I was getting older and
    older and they still fit the demographics. Darn! I had to begin finding
    teenage dates outside the fan base. :)

    Hal(Hasrlan)Stone
    Jughead

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 14:50:17 -0500
    From: hal stone <dualxtwo@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Re: ad lib Murmers

     Al Girard asked

>     What were some of the things that actors would say when there was a crowd
>     scene

    That would vary with the situation, and frequently, with the writer and/or
    director.

>     Ring-leader -  "Okay, boys, we've got him"
>     Crowd - "Murmer, mumble, etc."
>     Ring-leader - " I say we hang him!"
>     Crowd: - "Murmer, murmer"

    If the "murmers" were of no importance, and way in the background, (Lower
    range of audio) all sorts of things could be substituted for real words.
    "Walla-walla" was used often. But many a pro actor would think of Ad-libs to
    fit the situation, like "Yeah! hang em!" [removed]"Hangings too good for him",
    "String him up", "Somebody get a rope".

    But lines like that could just as easily be suggested in the script, or
    assigned to specific actors by the director.

>     I heard somewhere that they just said "Rhubarb, rhubarb" but I don't know
>     if that's true.

    "Rhubarb" doesn't ring a bell with me. But it certainly sounds plausible.

    Now, I have a question for you. I knew an an AFTRA union rep in New York
    named Allan Girard. Any relation?

    Hal(Harlan)Stone
    Jughead

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 14:50:45 -0500
    From: "MICHAEL BIEL" <mbiel@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Re:  Clarabell on Howdy Doody Show

    From: "A. Joseph Ross"

>     Clarabell was portrayed by Bob Keeshan, from the character's creation
>     sometime in 1948 until late 1952. ...  Bob Nicholson took over the role of
>     Clarabell "temporarily." Two years later ... Lew Anderson, who was a member
>     of the band in Bob Smith's radio show, was tapped to take over the part.

    Hey, let's get this back on-topic.  Who played Clarabell for the Saturday
    morning Howdy Doody RADIO program?  :-)

    Michael Biel  mbiel@[removed]

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 14:51:53 -0500
    From: hal stone <dualxtwo@[removed];
    To: OldRadio Mailing Lists <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Re: A Crenna tid-bit

    I was saddened to hear of Richard Crenna's passing. Although never having
    had the pleasure of working with him professionally, I welcomed the
    opportunity to spend time with him socially on one occassion, and
    experienced first hand his gracious personality, not to mention his wit.

    Dick Crenna, and a former LAPD detective, became friends when the detective
    was assigned as the "Consultant" on the film that Crenna [removed]"The
    Hillside Strangler. (The detective was the one who cracked that case.) They
    became golfing buddies.

    Fast forward years later. The Detective, long since retired, got involved
    with some local charitable organization here in Arizona. One of the fund
    raising possibilities under discussion was a "celebrity" Golf tournament.
    The Detective (ret) said he knew someone in LA (Crenna) that he could call
    to see if something like that would be feasible.

    To make a long story short, Dick Crenna said "no problem" and lined up a
    bunch of his Show Biz golfing cronies (golf nuts) for the tournament, and
    the gala dinner following. It was a rousing success. Arte Johnson (of
    Laugh-In fame), Tom Poston, (of Steve Allen and Bob Newhart fame), Frankie
    Avalon, Peter Marshall and many others showed up, insuring the success of
    the event.

    Tom Poston (who I knew back in the early days of live TV at NBC), took great
    delight in teasing Dick Crenna about "stealing" my Jughead "voice" to use as
    Walter Denton. I second all the praise being directed at Richard Crenna's
    formidable talent. (To me, his role in "The Sand Pebbles" showed the
    incredible depth of that talent, not to mention his "range"). From Comedy to
    High Drama, the man was a consummate pro, and a genuinely "nice guy".

    Hal(Harlan)Stone
    Jughead

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 14:51:59 -0500
    From: Rob Chatlin <rchatlin@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Kate on Gunsmoke

    I've been listening to some episodes from 1952 that feature a character
    named Kate instead of Kitty.
    One of the shows was a done before, same script, but with Kitty instead.

    Can anyone fill me in on who she was, and why/when she was on?

    thanks

    rob

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 15:43:46 -0500
    From: "jsouthard" <jsouthard@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Hal Stone's Book

    I recently ordered Harlan (Hal) Stone's book. He not only sent the book but
    an autographed picture and an autographed inscription.  I enjoyed the book
    very much.
    I especially liked Hal's describing the many personalities he worked with
    over the years. Thanks Hal.
    John A. Southard

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 17:28:04 -0500
    From: Joe Mackey <joemackey108@[removed];
    To: otr-net <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Today in radio history

>     >From Those Were The Days --

    1/21

    1927 - The first opera to be broadcast over a national radio network was
    presented in Chicago, IL. Listeners heard selections from Faust.

    1946 - The Fat Man debuted on ABC. J. Scott Smart, who played the portly
    detective, weighed in at 270 pounds in real life.

    Birthday's:

    1897 - J. (Joseph) Carrol Naish, Life with Luigi among others; died Jan
    19, 1973.

    1/22

    1956 - Raymond Burr starred as Captain Lee Quince in the Fort Laramie
    debut on CBS. The program was said to be in "the Gunsmoke tradition."

    Birthday:

    1909 - Ann Sothern (Harriette Lake), Masie, died Mar 15, 2001.

      Joe

    --
    Visit my home page:
    [removed]~[removed]

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 17:35:06 -0500
    From: Dennis W Crow <DCrow3@[removed];
    To: OTR Digest <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Chuck Schaden

    What a delightful surprise to see Chuck Schaden actually surface on this
    list.  He has made important contributions to our hobby ---- not the least
    of which is his THE CINNAMON BEAR BOOK [Hall Closet Publications, 1987].

    He wrote the only authoritative reference work  on this classic children's
    serial.  His information on CB is outstanding and I hope the book is still
    in print.  Were it not for Chuck and for Terry Black (an Illinois collector
    of old time radio), none of us would have known where to start in becoming
    knowledgeable fans of the show.

    I know Chuck Schaden is well known for his store, his radio program,  and
    his advancement of radio history. But he touches me personally with his
    Cinnamon Bear expertise.  I hope he lurks on the list no longer. We can
    learn much from him.

    Dennis Crow

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 18:01:39 -0500
    From: Joe Mackey <joemackey108@[removed];
    To: otr-net <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Re: Murmuring and Mumbling

       Al Girard posed --

>     Crowd: - "Murmer, murmer"

>     I heard somewhere that they just said "Rhubarb, rhubarb" but I don't know
>     if that's true.

      This reminds me of many times on the Goon Show, that great BBC comedy
    program of the '50s, where a crowd scene is called for, the actors,
    slightly off mic, would mill around saying distinctly, "rhubarb,
    rhubarb, [removed]" which is plainly heard.  :)
      Joe

    --
    Visit my home page:
    [removed]~[removed]

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 20:32:00 -0500
    From: "Bob Watson" <crw912@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  XM and Sirius Satellite OTR, a comparison

    This is probably a moot point for some, but I was in Best Buy yesterday and
    while there decided to look at the Delphi Boombox attachment for the SkyFi
    system.  Before I could locate one, I was struck by a "brainstorm".  Since
    Best Buy had the XM system alongside a Sirius system, I compared the two
    services to see what the differences were, if any.  I found that there were
    two different programs being broadcast over the two different systems.
    Boston Blackie on XM and the Shadow on Sirius.  What struck me the most was
    that the Sirius show seemed to be nothing more than a rebroadcast of Radio
    Spirits WHEN RADIO WAS show.  For those still wondering about the
    differences in the two systems OTR channels, XM's OTR channel, while using
    part of Stan Freburg's intro at the top of the two hour block, seems to have
    more independent programming.  I am glad I got the XM system.  Not only is
    it cheaper, but it is also geared for home use, not just cars as Sirius
    seems to be.
    And, no, I don't work for, or own any part of XM.  <LOL>

    Bob

    --------------------------------
    End of [removed] Digest V2003 Issue #32
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