Subject: [removed] Digest V2003 #249
From: "OldRadio Mailing Lists" <[removed]@[removed];
Date: 6/24/2003 9:15 PM
To: <[removed]@[removed];

------------------------------


                            The Old-Time Radio Digest!
                              Volume 2003 : Issue 249
                         A Part of the [removed]!
                                 ISSN: 1533-9289


                                 Today's Topics:

  shortwave in cars                     [ "[removed]" <[removed]@[removed] ]
  Famous Persons                        [ "George Coppen*" <gacoppen@[removed] ]
  questions about gunsmoke and cbs new  [ Grams46@[removed] ]
  June 25th birthdays                   [ Ron Sayles <bogusotr@[removed]; ]
  Re: disk recording urban legend, per  [ mbiel@[removed] ]
  Re: Research in NYC                   [ mbiel@[removed] ]
  Defending Barnouw                     [ Mike Martini <mmartini@[removed] ]
  Re: Car radios                        [ "Candy Jens" <candyj@[removed]; ]
  Winamp Skin                           [ "Kenneth Studdard" <rtoombs@alltel. ]
  Re: Edgar Stehli                      [ Martin <watchstop@[removed]; ]
  WRVO                                  [ Martin <watchstop@[removed]; ]
  The Sci-Fi Guy info                   [ "Martin Grams, Jr." <mmargrajr@hotm ]
  re: Dr. Grimshaw's Sanatarium         [ "Mark E. Higgins" <paul_frees_fan@a ]
  Thomas Edison's Frankenstein          [ "Martin Grams, Jr." <mmargrajr@hotm ]
  re: Little People and Shrinking Men   [ "Mark E. Higgins" <paul_frees_fan@a ]

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 10:31:29 -0400
From: "[removed]" <[removed]@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  shortwave in cars

In 246, George Tirebiter wondered:

I've often wondered why it isn't possible to get a car
with a factory installed radio that includes at least
some of the shortwave bands, especially sinceit's possible
to get quite inexpensive portable radios with SW bands.
Doesn't it occur to anyone that some of us might want to
listen to SW as we drive? If I was running Detroit I'd make
it an option.

  As an automotive engineer (based a couple hours North of Detroit), let me
answer that it's all about cost and demand.  I'm sure it has occured to the
OEM's that some people might want to listen to SW as they drive.  However,
it's not a question if "some" people want to listen to SW, it's a question of
if "enough people who are willing to pay extra" want to listen to SW.

  It is true that there are a number of inexpensive shortwave radios on the
market, but straight hardware costs is just part of the story.  Adding an
option to a car adds costs in many other ways.  Each of the new parts has to
be engineered, assigned part numbers, prints drawn, samples tested, quoted,
purchased, tracked.  Each of these business/engineering transactions has
measurable costs.  Next, once your supplier starts shipping parts, you have
to schedule delivery, receive the extra material, find a place to store the
extra inventory at the assembly plant, add the part to the guy who picks up
parts in the inventory area and delivers in to the assembly line.  Once at
the assembly line, you need to add another rack or chute to present the part
to the guy whose job it is to install radios.  Space along assembly lines is
usually at a premium.

  While you're doing all of this, you need to market test to determine how
much people are willing to pay for this option, how best to combine it with
other options in option packages (LE,SE,GT, etc).  Figure out what the
anticipated demand will be and then add that to your car production schedule.
When you're making a couple of million cars a year, this can become very
complicated.

  Finally, you have to buy a bunch of extra radios and hold them in a
warehouse somewhere, so when people bring in their cars to the dealer to get
their broken radio fixed, you can ship out replacement parts.

  All of these things add cost to the car, and in an industry that will spend
piles of money to cut a couple of dollars off of the price of a car, adding
options in not a decision to be taken lightly.  The demand for factory
installed SW's probably isn't large enough to make it worth the expense.

  I believe there are several companies who make aftermarket AM/FM/SW radios
for cars.  I've seen ads for them in SW publications, you should investigate
some of these.  Installing car radios is pretty easy, but if you don't want
to do it yourself, many car stereo places (even Best Buy) will install
hardware you buy other places (there will be an installation charge, as is
only fair).  I don't think aftermarket SW radios are cheap (for many of the
reasons above), but if you want [removed]

-Chris Holm
Industrial/Manufacturing Engineer
Delphi Corporation
(makers of the SkyFi XM radio and many other fine automotive components and
non-automotive products - PLUG! PLUG!)

Sorry for the off-topic message, but I wanted to defend my industry.  We're
not all a bunch of bone-headed idiots, just fanatical about shaving pennies
off of costs anywhere we can.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 11:50:35 -0400
From: "George Coppen*" <gacoppen@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  Famous Persons

Is there anyone  that receives the Digest that collects sound recordings of
famous people? I ask this as I had a request from a fellow I know that is
trying to find a recording of Queen Victoria's voice. Thanks for the help
gacoppen@[removed]    George

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 17:55:28 -0400
From: Grams46@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  questions about gunsmoke and cbs news staff
X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative
X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain

1. i was listening to a 1953 recording of gunsmoke.   the announcer said:
"around dodge city and in the territory on west"
the memory chip in my head remembers - "around dodge city and in the
territory out west"
was that phrase used in the television series gunsmoke ?
or was it used at one time on the radio show gunsmoke?
or is my memory chip damaged?

2. did anyone from the cbs news staff in london  get killed in the german
bombings of that city during world war 2?

thanking you in advance, i am kathy

  *** This message was altered by the server, and may not appear ***
  ***                  as the sender intended.                   ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 17:54:54 -0400
From: Ron Sayles <bogusotr@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  June 25th birthdays

June 25th births

06-25-1891 - Cliff Soubier - d. 9-1984
host: "Sealed Power Side Show"
06-25-1893 - Charlotte Greenwood - South Philadelphia, PA - d. 1-18-1978
comedienne: "Life with Charlotte Greenwood"; "Charlotte Greenwood Show"
06-25-1899 - Arthur Tracy - Kaminetz-Podolski, Russia - d. 10-5-1997
singer: (The Street Singer) "Street Singer"; "Music That Satisfies"
06-25-1903 - Anne Revere - NYC - d. 12-18-1990
actress: "Cavalcade of America"
06-25-1925 - June Lockhart - NYC
actress: "Lux Radio Theatre"; "Suspense"
06-25-1933 - Gary Crosby - California - d. 8-24-1995
singer: "Gary Crosby Show"; "Bing Crosby Show"
06-25-1966 - Bogus Sayles - Milwaukee, WI - d. 6-11-1980
dog: Whippet extraordinaire

June 25th death

11-18-1909 - Johnny Mercer - Savannah, GA - d. 6-25-1976
singer: "Camel Caravan"; "Johnny Mercer"s Music Shop"; "Dinah Shore Show"

Ron Sayles
Milwaukee, Wisconsin
Hometown of [removed] Kaltenborn and Spencer Tracy

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 17:51:52 -0400
From: mbiel@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Re:  disk recording urban legend, perhaps

From: "Mark Kinsler"
What you'd do is to collect a sizeable mass of the thread-like 'chip'
and place it in, say, a wastebasket. . . . the wastebasket's contents
would be ignited with a casually-thrown match.  The object was to
listen for a change in the victim's tone of voice when a pillar of fire
suddenly leaped from the floor at him.

The change in his voice might also be a result of the deadly toxic fumes from
the burning nitrate lacquer.  Arthur Gruber, the son of one of the founders
of Presto, Morris Gruber, told me the story of how his uncle lost his life in
1935 from a fire in the coating room at Presto.  He wasn't burned but had
breathed in the fumes.

Michael Biel  mbiel@[removed]

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 17:52:12 -0400
From: mbiel@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Re: Research in NYC

TAdding to my posting in yesterday's digest, there is one other exhibit in
the Jewish Entertainers exhibit at NYC's Jewish Museum that is quite notable.
They have an original copy of "Red Channels" on display and have reproduced
on a mural the actual listings in the book.  If you have never see "Red
Channels", this will show you how groundless much of the blacklist was.

Michael Biel

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 17:54:27 -0400
From: Mike Martini <mmartini@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Defending Barnouw

Although admittedly not much of an active participant, I feel compelled to
write and defend the late, great Erik Barnouw and his radio history
trilogy--"A Tower in Babel" (1966), "The Golden Web" (1968) and "The Image
Empire" (1970), which, I feel, remains the benchmark in documenting
broadcasting's origins.  By "benchmark," I mean starting point in much the
same way Gibbon's "History of the Roman Empire" or Churchill's "Second
World War" remain the benchmarks in their respective fields.  Flawed?  In
some ways.  But even though we've definitely learned new things about those
subjects since those books were published many years ago, they remain the
first source consulted in their respective subjects.  To me, Barnouw is the
same.

Erik Barnouw was the first to show us how "the pieces fit together."
Although his texts were written 35-40 years ago, I have yet to see any
scholarly history that embraces the many aspects of this complicated story
and puts them together so eloquently and yet concisely.  Consider an
analogy that Barnouw set forth to document and restore a grand building and
35-years later our task, then, is merely to criticize that one window is
not from the correct period or that he goofed on a reproduction cornice.
He was 95-percent right on the money. Barnouw was one of the first to treat
broadcast history with some scholarship and embrace the big picture, not
just a particular aspect.  Let's face it, many of the researchers of today,
as brilliant as they may be, are charged with the task of "filling in the
gaps" and correcting occasional flaws.  Revisionism is a healthy and
important part of the historic process and if Erik were around today, he'd
welcome the opportunity to "get some of the facts straight!"  But 40-years
years after the fact, the groudwork is still solid.  Besides, Erik would
probably invite you to his Vermont cottage for some hot, homemade soup and
delightful conversation (as I was several years ago.)

As far as Barnouw being "elitist" and one of those damned "East Coast
Academics," I have never met a man more genuinely generous, curious and
thoughful--even in his declining years.  A scholar?  Absolutely.  Columbia
had few who were better. But his career spanned the age of broadcasting
from actor to producer to writer to teacher.  His "Handbook of Radio
Writing" and "Handbook of Radio Production" were for many years the chief
textbook for those getting into the business.  Even when he came out of
retirement to help found the Broadcast and Film division at the Library of
Congress, he layed the groudwork for several innovations and discoveries
'though approaching age 80.  To his end he had a keen wit and a fascination
with what was next.  I was (and remain) in awe.

Was Barnouw "Columbia-centric?"  Possibly.  But he recognized and, more
importantly, was brave enough to write that CBS was the "creative" network
and NBC was the "commercial" network (and I say this in general terms, of
course!)  Barnouw was one of the few who really knew Robson and was good
friends with Corwin, Murrow and others.  IMHO, CBS (even before Paley
"bought" what he needed in '47 and '48) was the more creative network
during that period and so why should Barnouw ignore this?

Finally, I find nothing wrong with histories that have an anecdotal
flavour.  Barnouw did have access to and utilize documented histories--he
didn't pull his information out of thin air.  Keep in mind that many of the
primary source documents to which he had access have been "lost" in the
last 40-or so years.  But he also did his homework interviewing people.
Recollections add the "taste" to the soup.  I've learned far more from the
hundreds of interviews I've done over the years with the men and women in
the business than from any single text.  I'll also pick Maltin's
fun-to-read "Great American Broadcast" over some of those dry, "just the
fact's, mam" books of lists, dates and casts (although they are valuable,
too.)  There are occasional myths that get passed but that is why
historians today have something to do with their time.

So to summarize my rambling rumbling grumbling, if you can find a copy of
Barnouw's trilogy, buy it and treasure it.  Also, locate a copy of his
autobiography he published just before his death called "Media Marathon."
His book "Documentary" is a must for the student of film and his final work
"Media Lost and Found" is a fun read, too.  Perhaps someday I'd like to
tell the story of how Barnouw was involved (well, kind of) in the creation
of "Ma Perkins" at WLW in Cincinnati.
M. Martini

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 17:54:35 -0400
From: "Candy Jens" <candyj@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  Re: Car radios

Car radios in the 50s were (and probably still are!) better ar pulling in
distant stations than household ones.  I built a power supply for an old
tube-type auto radio and used it in my kitchen for quite a while.  Ugly as
could be, but great sound!

I also had, in 1958 a '52 Mercedes convertible that had a 7-band, tube radio
with 4 speakers - talk about being ahead of the curve!  Alas, I sold the car
. . .

A little off the subject, but can anyone recommend a good home radio/tuner,
with decent distance reception?  So far the GE SuperRadio seems best, but
would love a tuner that works beyond 5 miles from a supertation!

Candy Jens

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 17:51:58 -0400
From: "Kenneth Studdard" <rtoombs@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  Winamp Skin

There is a nice Old Time Radio skin on Winamp:

[removed]

Kenneth Studdard

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 20:52:48 -0400
From: Martin <watchstop@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Re: Edgar Stehli

His name was mentioned in a recent message, but the unusual surname
was misspelled.  He had a great deal of distinction as an actor,
beginning with the quality and nature of his voice, and I believe he
appeared in movies, too.

--Martin Fass

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 20:56:33 -0400
From: Martin <watchstop@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  WRVO

Kurt E. Yount asked if WRVO was on line.  As of about two years ago,
it was.  However, trying to listen via a Macintosh, I found that the
audio stream would constantly stop, after thirty seconds or so, and
for several minutes or sometimes ten or fifteen.  I wrote to them at
that time to ask about solving that problem, but never received an
answer.  And I've never gotten around to trying again, because I was
so disappointed that I could access the programs.  They do some great
ones.

Now I see that Howard Bonner has already commented on this and speaks
of the need to "hold the server" in order to capture the programs.
But how does one do THAT?  I imagine it has to be a matter of luck,
or is there a special technique?

--Martin Fass

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 21:47:52 -0400
From: "Martin Grams, Jr." <mmargrajr@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  The Sci-Fi Guy info

A few people e-mailed since that recent posting, asking for Gordon Payton's
updated address and phone number.

Gordon Payton, aka The Sci-Fi Guy
118 E. Palmer Ave.
Collingswood, NJ 08108
1-856-858-4401

Anyone who has been apparently trying to contact him please remember he's
not on the internet anymore.  You cannot e-mail him.  If you write, do not
use the old Cuthbert Blvd. address.  Yes, he still collects EVERYTHING
science-fiction in the audio format, and yes he still has a thick catalog
for a price of something like $10 or $15.  No, he does not have his web-site
on-line anymore.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 21:48:06 -0400
From: "Mark E. Higgins" <paul_frees_fan@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  re: Dr. Grimshaw's Sanatarium

Good point, Chris.  The only thing I can figure is that it was for use
against the enemy, similar to Dr. Noah (Woody Allen) in Casino Royale,
who's virus "made all women beautiful, and destroyed all men over 5'8""
Mark Higgins
Horicon, WI

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 21:50:01 -0400
From: "Martin Grams, Jr." <mmargrajr@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Thomas Edison's Frankenstein

I know this isn't old-time radio but I figure there are many people on this
digest who would find this of interest.

Thomas Edison's FRANKENSTEIN was released in theaters March 18, 1910.  The
film's premiere was short-lived, because newspapers reported the film as
weird and sacrilegious.  Some theater owners refused to show the "un-godly"
film.  Many of Edison's 35 mm theatrical prints were discarded, and several
years later a fire destroyed almost all of Edison's 35 mm film negatives.
In 1918, Edison closed his film studio.

Since then, film archivists from World-Wide Archives, the Library of
Congress and even the American Film Institute believed cinema's first
Frankenstein film was believed to be lost forever.  On May 5, 1980, a film
collector named Alois F. Dettlaff came across a trade paper listing the
American Film Institute's list fof top ten most important "Lost Silent
Films" and Edison's Frankenstein was on that list.  Dettlaff was shocked and
amazed because in the 1950s, he purchased the one-reel movie, an actual 35
mm print of the "lost" print.  To date, his is the only recognized print
known to exist.

Sadly, over the years Dettlaff had offered to sell the film but reportedly
his fee was more than anyone could pay for the fourteen-minute movie.  He
did on VERY rare occassion, play the movie at a movie convention so people
could witness and enjoy the film for it's worth.  Only two short, 20-second
scenes were ever released for documentaries (they paid thousands to Dettlaff
just to feature those two scenes).

In 1986, the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Science honored Dettlaff as
an archivist, film collector and preserver of rare films.  Ironically, they
let him hold a honorary Oscar and even had a photo op with him, but he never
got to keep the Oscar.  What is sad is he never truly preserved the film
correctly.  The film got sliced in a few spots, and the opening seconds of
the title screen got chewed up and he never repaired it.

Finally, just a month ago, Dettlaff (now in his eighties) decided to have
the film released.  He spent a few thousand dollars to have it restored and
released on DVD format.  Sorry, no VHS format.  He is now selling the entire
14-minute movie on DVD (along with a copy of the silent film NOSFERATU from
1922).  For anyone seriously interested in acquiring a copy of the film to
watch (it is breath-taking and fascinating, especially the reverse
take-apart creation scene when the monster is created), the DVD is available
for $[removed] plus $[removed] postage.

Yeah, I know, it costs $[removed] to send a DVD 2-day priority so you are paying
more for postage than you are supposed to, and the cost of the DVD is
expensive for a 14-minute movie (if you've never seen NOSFERATU, the first
screen version of DRACULA than you are getting your money worth).  But it's
either this or nothing.  I purchased my copy three weeks ago and am pleased
and have watched the film twice since.  I have friends coming over Friday
night for movie night and we have the 14-minute FRANKENSTEIN film on our
list of "must-see" this Friday.

Dettlaff's address for anyone wanting to buy the DVD is:
[removed] Ventures
N6735 Hillside Drive
Watertown, WI 53094
Check or money order can be made payable to: [removed] Ventures.
Please allow 4-6 weeks for delivery.
Fax is 920-699-4663

I am not sure if he's selling the DVD in stores, I believe it's just through
him only.  If you ask for a copy of the Souvenir Program, you'll get it with
the DVD.  No sponsorship involved, just passing along an FYI for those on
the digest.  I figure some people may have an interest in purchasing a copy
for themselves.  My only hope is that someday the film will get restored
properly with the opening credits (those few seconds due exist at the Edison
Museum/Archives).
Martin

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 22:29:47 -0400
From: "Mark E. Higgins" <paul_frees_fan@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  re: Little People and Shrinking Men

    I took Martin Gram's advice and listened again to "Return to Dust"
with Dick Beals (one of the great voices of all time).  Although I agree
that plotwise it probably more closely resembles Matheson's screenplay
(mist and all), the only problem is timing.  "Return to Dust" aired
2/1/59, while "The Incredible Shrinking Man" was released in 1957.  If
there is a connection, George Bamber (author of Return to Dust) borrowed
from Matheson.
Mark Higgins
Horicon, WI

--------------------------------
End of [removed] Digest V2003 Issue #249
*********************************************

Copyright [removed] Communications, York, PA; All Rights Reserved,
  including republication in any form.

If you enjoy this list, please consider financially supporting it:
   [removed]

For Help: [removed]@[removed]

To Unsubscribe: [removed]@[removed]

To Subscribe: [removed]@[removed]
  or see [removed]

For Help with the Archive Server, send the command ARCHIVE HELP
  in the SUBJECT of a message to [removed]@[removed]

To contact the listmaster, mail to listmaster@[removed]

To Send Mail to the list, simply send to [removed]@[removed]