------------------------------
The Old-Time Radio Digest!
Volume 01 : Issue 170
A Part of the [removed]!
ISSN: 1533-9289
Today's Topics:
re: Copyright, Napster and RSI. (whe [jason carr <mouse@[removed]; ]
The edge of the Envelope ["Stephen A Kallis, Jr." <skallisjr@]
an illustration and RS comments ["Rodney w bowcock jr." <rodney-self]
D day ["@" <josephpostove@[removed]; ]
Carl Amari -- defend thself! ["jstokes" <jstokes@[removed]; ]
The New Frontier? ["Stephen A Kallis, Jr." <skallisjr@]
Re:AUDIO FORMATS PROPAGANDA [Michael Biel <mbiel@[removed]; ]
Re: Don Ameche's Younger Brother [Michael Biel <mbiel@[removed]; ]
Lumpy Branigan [Michael Biel <mbiel@[removed]; ]
SUPERMAN RADIO SHOWS MISSING EPISODE ["Edwin Ortiz" <eddieo396@[removed]; ]
Re: Radio Spirits Does It Again! [Michael Biel <mbiel@[removed]; ]
Radio for children -- today? [Henry Howard <hhoward@[removed]]
CHILDREN'S PROGRAMS/COPYRIGHT EXPIRE ["Owens Pomeroy" <opomeroy@[removed]; ]
Mahlon Loomis [Bill Jaker <bilj@[removed]; ]
Famous Iowans [George Aust <austhaus1@[removed]]
Crosley Radio Reproductions ["David H. Buswell" <dbuswell@rivnet]
FLUFFS [Sandy Singer <sinatradj@[removed]; ]
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 19:21:58 -0400
From: jason carr <mouse@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: re: Copyright, Napster and RSI. (whew)
From: StepToons@[removed]
As far as RSI's legal attack on Napster, I applaud them, as I would applaud
any other, for trying to squash copyright infringement.
I applaud them /if/ they tell Napster what they own (and thereby what to
block).
Napster (and napster-like nets) block content by strings and regular
expressions: "cher", "metallica", etc. Without knowing what is owned it is
impossible to selectively block that material. It may be impossible
anyhow, as there is no necessary relationship between the contents and
filename.
If anyone is interested in the details of how it works I can hold forth.
Otherwise I will assume it is not interesting to casual users.
Considering that the
Napster Catalog changes, literally, every second (with users signing on and
off) to state and complete list of "WHICH" titles are being infringed upon is
an unnecessary and impossible task.
You don't need a list of which titles for a specific timeframe, just specific
titles. They will be filtered from that point on. It's quite easy to do at
the
server level once you know specifically what the rights-holder owns.
enough to make their case. As a copyright owner, myself, if I saw even ONE of
my titles unlawfully offered on Napster, that would be all it would take for
me to take action.
I think I'd worry if I didn't find at least /some/ of my work being
[removed]
:-)
Napster is similar to the "Temple of
Thieves." Napster thinks that the temple shouldn't be held responsible for
opening their doors to the thieves and making them a happy home.
Napster can be used for both lawful and unlawful sharing of files.
Some condone
this practice of "trading" material on line stating that "no money is
I condone the trading of public domain information. If an entity can
demonstrate rights to given information, I will no longer trade it. Example:
I
had an esoteric document from 1933 on my website. The document was
widely considered public domain but the organization cheerfully provided
me with credible documentation to the contrary -- I pulled the document
immediately and with an apology for the honest mistake.
To request the removal of information to which one owns documented
rights to is fair, legal, and good. To attempt to bully the public with FUD
(fear, uncertainty, and doubt) to control an entire genre is thuggery.
Pay for
what you own.
And don't pay for what no one owns.
[removed], jc
work - [removed]
play - [removed]~mouse/
OTR - [removed]
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 19:37:56 -0400
From: "Stephen A Kallis, Jr." <skallisjr@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: The edge of the Envelope
Anent the RSI/MediaBay Copyright business, "Step" notes,
I think it is perfectly fine that RSI not give this information out to
any competitor. RSI apparently spends a great deal of money and time
investigating copyright ownership before offering a title to the public.
If a company or individual wants to sell a recording they should
investigate, on
their own time and money, who owns the copyright to the work in question
before they offer it for sale.
If _that_ were what the contention was all about, then there would be no
problem. If someone was printing a pirate copy of something I had a
copyright for, I'd write through a lawyer a letter saying, "The article,
'The Green Hornet and the Twentieth Century,' is Copyright 2001, and you
are not authorized to print it in your magazine without permission. You
are hereby put on notice to cease publication of this article," or words
to that effect. In the letter, my representative does not have to list
everything I have copyright on; just whatever the person who is
publishing it without permission is printing. However, if I had someone
write, "Your magazine has published material I have rights to, and you
are hereby notified not to do it without permission," and the magazine
editor asks, "Which article are you talking about?" and receives a reply,
"We won't tell you; just stop it," there's a problem.
Ideally, determining rights should be easy, but it isn't. For instance,
apparently some of what is being sold today by "rights holders" may have
been taken from disks, tapes, cylinders, and/or wires, specifically
marked against reproduction. There is a large gray area that apparently
_nobody_ has clear data on. There are also things that seem indisputably
in the Public Domain. Some of this might take years to determine -- and
some may never be determined.
So the smaller dealer is in a quandary. If the majority of his or her
inventory is in Public Domain or something that nobody has determined the
status on, and only a small percentage of the programs are ones RSI
clearly has rights on, it is no more fair to force the dealer to suspend
_all_ business than it would be for the dealer to continue to sell
programs that MediaBay clearly has rights to.
Stephen A. Kallis, Jr.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 19:37:54 -0400
From: "Rodney w bowcock jr." <rodney-selfhelpbikeco@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: an illustration and RS comments
Once upon a time there was an international car theif. More than
anything he loved to steal cars. Eventually, as always happens to those
on the wrong side of the law, the man was caught red handed.
The police put out a call to all of the people in the country who had
cars stolen asking them to come to the estate of the car theif to claim
their vehicles. Only one man showed up. As he walked into the massive
garage filled with hundreds of cars, the policeman asked him to identify
if any of the vehicles were his. The man refused, saying that he should
just be given all of the cars, since he was the only one who came to the
estate.
Naturally, no policeman would be willing to give this man all of the cars
in the garage, simply because he refused to identify which were his.
Thus *should* be the same with Radio Spirits. Legally, they may not have
to identify which shows are theirs, but morally they should. I cannot
help but think that they are blatently trying to create a monopoly, which
we all know is illegal.
When given concrete proof that RS owns a certain show, I will happily buy
from them. Until then, I will purchase from whomever I please with a
clear conscience, and I urge everyone else on this list to do the same.
Rodney
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 20:57:30 -0400
From: "@" <josephpostove@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: D day
I have set up a stream of several hours of great nbc and cbs audio from the
early hours of D day 6/6/44. It is at Live [removed]
Go to
[removed]
This is fascinating audio.
Joe Postove
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 21:26:06 -0400
From: "jstokes" <jstokes@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: Carl Amari -- defend thself!
Whew! I think it is high time that Carl Amari came to this spot on
your computer dial and spoke up! :)
In the meantime, I have more than enough OTR cassettes and open reel
tapes gathering dust.
Cut/Print!
Jim Stokes
NaturaLite Pictures
jstokes@[removed]
[ADMINISTRIVIA: Mr. Amari, or any representative of RadioSpirits or MediaBay,
is welcomed to comment on the discussion; I can assume based on information
I've received that the company is, on at least some level, quite aware of
this discussion and following it closely here in the OTR Digest. That said,
please remember that company representatives are also free _not_ to comment,
should they choose not to do so. In this respect, they are no different than
any other subscriber who is always welcomed, but never forced, to post.
--cfs3]
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 22:40:13 -0400
From: "Stephen A Kallis, Jr." <skallisjr@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: The New Frontier?
Mike Ray notes, anent RSI/MediaBay, etc.,
Though I've never met or talked with Carl Amari, I've gotten the
impression that Carl really does care about Old Time Radio. I believe
that some of you have been unfair and are frankly jelious of this man.
After all, this boy wonder was the one with the initiative to understand
how the Copyright game is played. <<
I'm not a dealer. Why should I be jealous of Mr. Armani? QAnd why
characterize him as a "boy wonder"? He's either started as or become a
rather hard-fisted businessman. This is not a criticism; merely an
observation.
He played by the rules and did his best to obtain as many programs as
possible. Lets face it. Carl's love for OTR is a burning passion. That's
why he is at the top of the [removed];<
I think that "playing by the rules" is what some of us are questioning.
As several have pointed out, the Cease & Desist letters sent out in Mr.
Amari's behalf seem to be stretching "the rules." As I've noted
repeatedly, I've no problem with Mr. Amari's right to protect what's
_legally_ RSI/MediaBay property. Where things become questionable, in an
ethical if not a legal sense, is where the Cease & Desist orders seem to
be framed so as to require cessation of _all_ business by a competitor to
comply.
If a love for something being a burning passion was all it takes to be at
the top of the heap of one's industry, many of us would be driving
Tuckers.
When I think about what Carl has accomplished and what Radio Spirits
have given to the Old Time Radio community, I believe that Carl belongs
in the Radio Hall of [removed];<
Well, that's why there are horse races: people have different opinions.
Stephen A. Kallis, Jr.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 22:40:11 -0400
From: Michael Biel <mbiel@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Re:AUDIO FORMATS PROPAGANDA
From: "stephen jansen" <stephenjansen@[removed];
I think back to the pre-cd-burning days about [removed] had just
bought an LP by some BritishNewWaveBand called BowWowWow (come on!
I was a teenager then!)
Yes, and the main attraction of the group was that the 15 year-old girl
in the group with the Mohawk haircut, Annabella Lwin, was topless or
nude in some of the pictures--I have most of their records and CDs (and
I wasn't a teenager then!)
and there, printed on the paper record sleeve was a picture of
a cassette tape with 2 bones in an "X" underneath. Below this odd
skull-and-crossbones was the phrase: "HOME TAPING IS KILLING MUSIC".
If this logo is there in this form it would be very ironic because this
group's first hit was a PRO-home-taping song "C30-C60-C90-Go!" If you
check your album again you will probably find that the entire logo also
has a red X over it because this was a logo that this group did not
believe in. (BUT--if you wanted the sexy pictures you hadda buy the
records! Sneaky.) But there were plenty of other albums from that year
that did have this logo on it and in those cases the record companies
meant it.
What a blatant, bald-faced lie! My poor ignorant teenaged brain
didn't realize it then, but I sure do now. The '80's had some
record profits for all the big record labels. They just wanted
us to buy THEIR cassettes for $8 rather than buy a blank tape
for $2 and record the album from a friend.
I've been writing about this for more than 20 years. There have been
ways of making home recordings off of radio or of borrowed records since
the 1930s that could conceivably create copies of equal quality to the
original. Indeed, the surface noise of a newly recorded lacquer disc of
the 30s and 40s was lower than would be found on a purchased shellac 78
disc. Tape recording of the 50s and 60s had lower background noise than
many vinyl records. But it wasn't until the cassette made it EASY to
make home recordings that the record industry started to take notice.
When EVERY ordinary kid had recorders, then it was a potential threat to
their business.
The RIAA and IFPI base their exaggerated loss figures on the theory that
every homemade copy is a lost sale. They do not take into account that
many kids would join together to buy a legit original just because they
could split up the copies they made. Even THAT copy wouldn't have been
purchased if this wasn't possible. The book publishing industry takes
into account the assured sales from libraries, and does not consider
that every borrowed library copy is a lost sale--even though this IS
true. They know that if the book was not available in the library it
would not assure that each borrower would buy a copy.
BUT, in defense of the record companies, a record or a cassette or a CD
is more than just the physical item. There ARE real costs involved in
creating the master, promoting the album and artist, and paying
royalties that you are not responsible for but they are. It IS cheating
to make copies for friends. But you could also have recorded it off of
the radio--which IS legal.
Remember, back in the 1920s and 1930s some record companies and
performers tried to keep radio stations from being allowed to play
records! They felt that radio plays were lost sales--until they found
out that radio plays ENCOURAGED sales.
I'm pretty sure that now there is a copyright fee built into the
cost of every single blank cassette we buy.
Absolutely false. Totally false. Could not be further from the truth.
You are deluding yourself by thinking this. It is true in some European
countries, but it is NOT TRUE here in the [removed]
Probably the same for video/DAT/Minidisc/and (definately)"Music"
cd blanks.
It is true ONLY for "Music" CD-Rs. That is why they cost more than
"data" CD-Rs. But most collectors are using computers, so they can use
data CDs and bypass the royalties. My complaint with the royalties is
that they are going to the most popular songs that are already getting
the highest royalties. OTR programs are not in this category, nor are
the other things I would be recording! But there are no royalties on
blank videotape, DATs, or mini-discs in the [removed]
Never mind the fact that some of us record OUR OWN music/audio
works/family video and must still pay the built-in cost of those
"lost revenues" to the record companies.
That's been my complaint for 20 years since the concept was first
suggested.
Now mp3 is a whole new can'o'worms.
Which I will not be getting into here. Whew!
Michael Biel mbiel@[removed]
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 22:40:08 -0400
From: Michael Biel <mbiel@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Re: Don Ameche's Younger Brother
From: "David H. Buswell" <dbuswell@[removed];
Jim Ameche, Don's younger brother . . . had quite a career in OTR
including the original Jack Armstrong. His voice was almost an
exact duplicate of Don's.
I met Don Ameche once, but didn't remember to ask him his thoughts on
what it would have been like if his brother Jim--who had already passed
away by that time--could have played his brother in that great movie
"Trading Places" instead of Ralph Belamy. Wouldn't that have been
wonderful to have had those two real brothers in that movie playing
brothers? Does anybody know of any program where both brothers appeared
together?
Michael Biel mbiel@[removed]
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 22:58:20 -0400
From: Michael Biel <mbiel@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Lumpy Branigan
Lumpy (Mr. Greenjeans). . .Branigan had played trombone with Fred Waring.
Bill Murtough
Actually he played bass and tuba. He did a lot of solo work on Waring's
radio program as Uncle Lumpy telling the stories of Little Orly, and
also recorded many of them for Decca. I never watched Captain Kangaroo,
but I've been told that Branigan never told any of the Orly stories on
that show. Therefore, many people are surprised (as I was) to find out
that Mr. Greenjeans and Uncle Lumpy were the same person.
Michael Biel mbiel@[removed]
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 00:51:23 -0400
From: "Edwin Ortiz" <eddieo396@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: SUPERMAN RADIO SHOWS MISSING EPISODE
hi otr fans im hoping you can help me with some info on a missing superman
radio show. episode no 82 which was the conclusion of the lost continent of
atlantis serial is missing does anyone know wherei can find out the script
to the story so i can at least know how the serial concluded. the date is
12-22-42 . please let kme know and thanks again
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 00:51:26 -0400
From: Michael Biel <mbiel@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Re: Radio Spirits Does It Again!
My friend, Dave Phaneuf wrote:
And for those shows that Carl Amari owns the copyrights to -- well,
the name says it: he has the right -- and only he has the right --
to copy, or give permission to copy or perform.
In all probability many of the copyright permissions RSI has obtained
are not the copyrights themselves. RSI most likely has contracted just
the limited right to sell retail sound recordings of the programs. And
even this right might be non-exclusive--meaning that others could also
make a similar deal with the owners. But the rights to the scripts,
characters, title, logos, etc. might still be reserved by the original
owner. Thus just because RSI is selling WOTW on cassettes and CDs
doesn't mean that he has bought the entire copyright from the Koch
estate. The Koch estate probably still controls all other uses of the
program and the script. This could be true of many of the other
programs RSI claims to have the rights to. They might only have the
limited right of selling copies.
If NAPSTER is illegally performing copyrighted material, then they
are at fault, not Mr. Amari.
Napster doesn't perform material, copyright or not. The original lies
on someone's computer. The copy is made on someone else's computer.
Performance rights have never entered into the Napster situation, thus
the complete absence of ASCAP, BMI, and SESAC in the entire issue.
NAPSTER should be responsible enough to check out copyrights and get
permission.
It has been Napster's contention that they were never more than a
cataloging and delivery facilitating service. They act much like a
dating service and the post office. Would you consider asking the
authors of record catalogs and discogrphies to pay a royalty to the
creators of the records merely listed in their books??????? Of course
not. Would you consider asking the Post Office to pay a royalty to the
creators of the products that they deliver to your mailbox???????? Of
course not. And that had been the theory under which they had been
operating. It is only after the adverse court decisions that there has
been a redefining of their service. Since this has not yet reached the
Supreme Court, it might be premature for all of these changes to be made
to the service. The Supreme Court might eventually find in Napster's
favor!
Granted, Mr. Amari could be a little more helpful to everyone
involved and inform everyone what copyrights he holds. ... But
whether or not I like or agree with what RSI is doing in buying
up copyrights and prosecuting infringers of their copyrights --
it is irrelevant. The fact is Mr. Amari is within his rights --
rights that anyone of us would defend for ourselves as well,
were it us being infringed upon. Dave Phaneuf
>From what I have heard, RSI has yet to prosecute any infringers. Thus
the status of any of their copyrights has yet to be challenged. No
doubt he does have some legitimate copyrights, but they probably are
still only a small fraction of the total OTR spectrum. Defending that
small fraction by seemingly allowing the belief that it is the whole OTR
universe is unfair at best, and potentially deceptive at worst.
Michael Biel mbiel@[removed]
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 00:51:30 -0400
From: Henry Howard <hhoward@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Radio for children -- today?
Rabbit Ears produced a very elaborate series some years back
of audio books where each story was told by a famous actor
with very extensive music.
Rabbit Ears was manufactured by Windham Hill.
The Fisherman and His Wife was 1934 10714 2.
Not drama, but good entertainment for the younger set.
Audiotheatre Monterey soundworks experience,
[removed] produces a large catalog of titles.
I heard one or two when they first came out and they sounded
like video people doing audio. ([removed] audio for video)
I have not heard any of their more recent works.
The Colonial Radio Theatre produces works that are
historically accurate, and still entertaining.
[removed]
If you are near a good size library you may find material there.
Henry Howard - moderator of the Radiodrama e-mail group
770 923 7955 [removed]
hhoward@[removed] Movies in your Mind
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 00:53:04 -0400
From: "Owens Pomeroy" <opomeroy@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: CHILDREN'S PROGRAMS/COPYRIGHT EXPIRED
There is an organization that produces and distributes programs called
"Unshackled", and one department is programs for Children. Although these
are of a religious nature, they are well done with Child actors and former
and current radio personalities in the Chicago area. They are heard over
station WRBS in the Baltimore area.
Their web site is [removed]
- ------------------------------------------------------------------
Correct me if I am in error, but I read somwhere that the (c) is only good
for 20 years, and must be renewed, or it otherwisw becomes "public domain."
Owens Pomeroy
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 00:53:02 -0400
From: Bill Jaker <bilj@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Mahlon Loomis
Elizabeth stated:
In fact, neither Tesla nor Stubblefield
were the first to experiment with transmitting electrical signals without
wires -- a West Virginia dentist/eccentric by the name of Mahlon Loomis
secured a patent in 1872 for a "conductive" wireless system, and claimed
to have transmitted a telegraph signal between two kites eighteen miles
apart. But this was another system that had nothing to do with actual
Hertzian radio waves, and there is in fact no positive proof that it ever
actually worked.
Mahlon Loomis was originally from upstate New York (where I now
live) and spent his final years in West Virginia (where I used to
live). His experiments with an “improvement in telegraphing” involved
using atmospheric electricity to charge a galvanometer and then
observing the movement of the leaves of a galvanometer some distance
away. This was, of course, a conductive system. However, without
realizing it, Loomis had designed a “resonant circuit”, one of the
building blocks of modern electronics.
Another posting in our OTR Digest asserted that Loomis had stations
overseas and transmitted voice signals. He did no such thing, but he
did envision a concept of worldwide broadcast communications that would
“convert the heathen” (he could have been the first religious
broadcaster).
Loomis was bitter about the lack of funding and recognition for his
invention and moved to Terra Alta, [removed], where his brother owned
property. He set up his experiments again and reportedly had stations
operating between the local pharmacy and the railroad station to signal
when the train was arriving – the first practical use of wireless
(albeit inductive) telegraphy.
A few years ago a pair of Comsat engineers at the satellite station
in Etam, [removed] replicated Loomis’s experiments. Mahlon Loomis is still
not in the category with Marconi (who studied his patents), Fessenden,
deForest and others, but the Guinness Book of Records does credit him
with sending the first signals through the air. His only other
recognition seems to be a historical marker alongside the Terra Alta
cemetery where he’s buried.
--Bill Jaker
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 09:53:10 -0400
From: George Aust <austhaus1@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Famous Iowans
Mark Lambert mentioned Don Ameche as a famous Iowan with OTR ties.
Another is Glenn Miller who was born in Clarinda Iowa in 1904. Miller
made hundreds of broadcasts over NBC Red, NBC Blue, CBS, and the Mutual
networks.
The Glenn Miller Birthplace Society is hosting the 26th annual Glenn
Miller Festival begining June 6th in Clarinda. My wife and I will again
be attending this event with big bands from all over the world coming to
pay tribute to the most popular band leader of all time.
George Aust
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 09:53:08 -0400
From: "David H. Buswell" <dbuswell@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: Crosley Radio Reproductions
Among the plethora of catalogues I receive monthly, I recently obtained one
from "Treasures From A Bygone Era" which included two items that might be of
interest to OTR fans:
1. Vintage art deco (1930s) floor model (3 feet tall) Crosley radio replica
($[removed])
2. Vintage Crosley Cathedral (1930s) table model radio replica ($[removed]).
>From the accompanying photos in the catalogue, both appear to be quite
excellent reproductions. Both have modern electronics, of course.
If anyone wants to take a look, go to [removed] and in the
"search" blank on the home page, type in "Crosley radio." To order a
catalog, call 1-888-443-7227
Dave Buswell
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 10:07:48 -0400
From: Sandy Singer <sinatradj@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: FLUFFS
Mine also falls in the "*uck" category. It was 1951--I was an
announcer/DJ for WEEK radio in Peoria, Illinois. Every day on the 1:30
break, between network shows, the same spot for the Central Illinois
Light & Power Company ran for many, many months: "No washday muss, fuss
or work with the ABC O-Matic washer from the Central [removed]"
Well, one day, for reasons unknown, I substituted "*uck" for the word
fuss.
I knew my short broadcast career was over, but now, 50 years later I'm
still trying to get it right.
Sandy Singer
A DATE WITH SINATRA
[removed]
--------------------------------
End of [removed] Digest V01 Issue #170
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