Subject: [removed] Digest V2003 #59
From: "OldRadio Mailing Lists" <[removed]@[removed];
Date: 2/6/2003 7:41 PM
To: <[removed]@[removed];

------------------------------


                            The Old-Time Radio Digest!
                              Volume 2003 : Issue 59
                         A Part of the [removed]!
                                 ISSN: 1533-9289


                                 Today's Topics:

  Howard Blue at CUNY tomorrow afterno  [ "Irene Heinstein" <IreneTH@[removed] ]
  WXYZ contacts?                        [ bloodbleeds@[removed] ]
  it's in the book                      [ "Robert Angus" <rangus02@[removed]; ]
  Dragnet: old v. new                   [ "Joe Cline" <[removed]@[removed] ]
  YTJD/Dragnet                          [ William Brooks <webiii@[removed]; ]
  Re: Boston accents on OTR             [ Elizabeth McLeod <lizmcl@[removed] ]
  Decline of OTR advertising            [ "Andrew Godfrey" <niteowl049@[removed] ]
  Re: "The Untouchables"                [ Udmacon@[removed] ]
  This Dragnet fuss!                    [ vigor16@[removed] ]
  "Have Gun, Will Travel" feature film  [ Herb Harrison <herbop@[removed] ]
  What's in a (re-used ) name?          [ Derek Tague <derek@[removed]; ]
  westerns and otr                      [ ddunfee@[removed] ]
  WWII Revisited                        [ Ron Sayles <bogusotr@[removed]; ]
  Re: The Shadow's Greatest Radio Adve  [ SanctumOTR@[removed] ]
  Dragnet (1967-70)                     [ "Joel Thoreson" <misterjoel@amerite ]
  Re: Thin Man                          [ "Rodney w bowcock jr." <rodney-self ]

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 19:20:15 -0500
From: "Irene Heinstein" <IreneTH@[removed];
To: "OTR" <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  Howard Blue at CUNY tomorrow afternoon

I just received an e-mail from The Nation magazine about an event tomorrow
afternoon, Feb 6 at the CUNY Graduate Center.  It is called "The Blacklist:
A New Look Fifty Years Later" featuring:

Victor Navasky, Nation Publisher and Editorial Director
Howard Blue, author of Words at War
Madeline Lee Gifford, author of 170 Years of Show Business
Clifford Carpenter, blacklisted actor

Thursday, February 6, 1:00-3:00pm
CUNY Graduate Center
365 Fifth Avenue at 34th Street
$15 (general public), $10 (seniors), Free (students)

Presented by CUNY Graduate Center in conjunction with The Nation
Institute.

Way to go, Howard.  Wish I could be there.   Hopefully they'll record it and
make it available at The Nation website.

~Irene

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 19:21:07 -0500
From: bloodbleeds@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  WXYZ contacts?

Hello. Does anyone here have any contacts to WXYZ or the Dick Osgood family? 

Ben

The Bickersons Scripts book
[removed]

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 20:15:11 -0500
From: "Robert Angus" <rangus02@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  it's in the book
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It was wonderful hearing "It's In the Book" again after all these years.  For
a day and a half, though, I was tortured by the feeling that I should have
recognized the song at the end ("Grandma's Lye Soap") as something from my
childhood.  This afternoon it hit me---the old Chatauqua (and presumably
American music hall) song "Lydia Pinkham's Miracle Remedy."

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 20:15:52 -0500
From: "Joe Cline" <[removed]@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  Dragnet: old v. new

I don't remember the show on radio (a little too young) and barely remember
the first TV series, but from the clips that I've seen of the original
video series, the look of the sixties series was completely different from
the fifties version.

The color shows were lighted VERY flat -- it looks as if the lighting
consisted only of several large "scoop" lighting instruments. The b&w
series, on the other hand, had a noir-ish feel, with deep shadows and
pin-spot highlights on the actors. Obviously, the first series was filmed
with much more care than the second, which looks as if the whole thirty
minutes were filmed in one afternoon.

Joe Cline
Charlotte

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 21:09:04 -0500
From: William Brooks <webiii@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  YTJD/Dragnet

Recently Mike Wheeler asked about the Johnny Dollar theme music. I
once spent an afternoon with Jack Johnstone (producer/writer/director
of Johnny Dollar 1955-l960), and he told me that as best he could
remember the [removed] music was [removed] in house music. It was on a disc
from the "CBS musicians".

Chet Norris asked about the snappy verbage on Johnny Madera & Pat
Novak. This was because they were both written by Richard Breen. It
started in 1946 on Pat Novak, and went to the Spring of 1947 when
Breen and Webb moved from San Francisco to [removed] Pat Novak continued
in San Francisco with Ben Morris in the lead and was written by Gil
Doud. To quote John Dunning "Morris played it straight, and died
trying".
In [removed], Breen and Webb put together Johnny Madero: Pier 23. It ran
from April to Sept. 1947. They had to call it Johnny Madero as Pat
Novak was still running from San Francisco. Johnny Madero was a clone
of the original Pat Novak. In [removed] Webb was back as acid tongued
Pat Novak and the show ran until June 1949. Blame the dialogue on
Breen and blame Webb for his for his expert delivery.

Now for a personal few thoughts about the New Dragnet. I am a retired
law enforcement officer.  I found the New Dragnet to be very
authentic, and graphically up to date. I don't think they tried to
make it  "the son of Dragnet" If it lasts or is cancelled I don't
care. It's just another reasonably good "cop" show. It is obviuos
they jumped on the name Dragnet for instant name identification, and
continued with the names Joe Friday and Frank Smith for the same
reason. I don't like that but that's life.

What I do find objectionable is the use of the Badge #714. This may
seem picky, but Jack Webb earned that Badge. The Badge itself was
retired from service when Webb died Dec. 23, 1982. The [removed]
thought so much of Webb that he was buried with full police honors.
Two buildings at the academy are named for him. There is also an
annual Jack Webb awards dinner in connection with the [removed]
historical society. Webb researched police procedures and rode with
police officers frequently. He almost considered himself an officer.
He honored police officers and they in turn honored him in death by
retiring the Badge. I would like to have seem that honor continued
with the New Dragnet. As I said, it's picky on my part but as an
ex-police officer (not in [removed]) it bothers me.

I've got more to say but I don't want to beat a dead horse.

Bill

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 21:09:10 -0500
From: Elizabeth McLeod <lizmcl@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  Re: Boston accents on OTR

On 2/5/03 6:25 PM OldRadio Mailing Lists wrote:

As for OTR while a NY accent is heard often enough I don't recall any Boston
accents.

Fred Allen comes to mind, as does Jack Haley. Allen and Haley were both
"coast defenders" -- smalltime Boston-area comedians -- in the early
1910s, and never quite shook their native accents, although Haley's
strikes me as much more pronounced than Allen's. This is understandable,
since Allen was lace-curtain-Irish from Dorchester, and Haley was just a
punk from Southie.

But the all-time prize for Boston-type accents in old-time entertainment
goes to Charles Farrell in his earliest talkies. He might be better known
for his role in "My Little Margie" to the OTR crowd, but in the latter
days of silent pictures he was one of the great romantic figures of the
screen. Then talkies came in, and when he opened his mouth and out came
this flat broad-a voice -- and that was the end of that.  Check him out
in "Sunny Side Up" (1929), one of my all-time favorite movies, and try to
keep from laughing uncontrollably at the sound of *that* voice coming out
of *that* body. Adonis crossed with Henry Cabot Lodge.

Of course, none of these can quite match up to the best comic use of a
Boston accent I've ever heard -- the "Sully and Denise" sketches that
show up from time to time on the current version of "Saturday Night
Live." Say what you will about TV being the root of all evil, but there
are some *extremely* talented dialect artists on SNL these days.

Elizabeth

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 21:40:03 -0500
From: "Andrew Godfrey" <niteowl049@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Decline of OTR advertising

  Was listening to a Phil Harris show from 1953. The announcer mentioned
something about the show being one of the few shows that still had a
sponsor.
  Was this about the time when former radio advertisers were switching to
television? Guess this was why OTR died 9 years later due to lack of
advertisers and stars of radio shows switching to television.
Andrew Godfrey

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 22:43:24 -0500
From: Udmacon@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Re: "The Untouchables"
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The Encore Channel ran the 1988 movie "The Untouchables" tonight.

In one scene it was 1930, and Elliot Ness and his wife were listening to Amos
& Andy on their cathedral radio.

This episode had a studio audience!

Damn, Elizabeth; I wish for once they'd get it right!

---BILL KNOWLTON

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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 00:17:36 -0500
From: vigor16@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  This Dragnet fuss!

Hi guys,

I don't know what our fuss is about the Dragnet re-enactment.  I found it
to be very unlike the original, but didn't expect it to be.  We are very
fickle folks, in otr.  One minute, we want people to recall otr, the
next, when a mention is made of it, we get upset about the representation
of it. I am glad when someone holds up the original as the standard that
they use for making new things.  It has been my contention, for years
even before I was an OTR enthusiast, that most television that succeeds
has a radio link.  (not all but most). One of my favorite shows was the
Fugitive.  I was not offended, as some of my fellows, when they made a
movie about it.  I saw it, didn't like it and, like many others, forgot
it.  I was glad that someone thought it was a great enough idea to keep
going.  Radio is like that.  As many of us would agree, there are a lot
of great ideas that came from our blessed meda and I'm glad that non-OTR
folks still remember it 40 years later.  Television cannot create
anything new.  It has pretty much been covered by the time old time radio
was experiencing  cpr in the 1960s.  Who will ever remember the work of
Jack Webb, if we don't bring back reminders of his fine work to our kids.
 My problem with recreations happen when they take something I like and
throw filthy words and nudity in it and nothing more and call it as good
as the oridinal.  Radio is great because you can share it with all people
from children to grandfolks and not hear too many complaints.  Try that
with today's television and you'd have a riot in the family.  Personally,
I like trueness in my remakes.  I'd probably bore kids to death, but I
believe, with the right folks and attitude, a good remake can be done.
Just try and keep in mind the purpose of the production not the income.
I don't like today's music, so my wife and I do what we do like.  We
bought a portastudio and play it and record it and listen to it.  We can
hear words, they mean something and it is fun.  The point is this,  if I
don't like something, I can usually tell within the first ten minutes and
so I turn it off.  If they don't get viewers, customers for their
products, than we know how good it is.  People are pretty good at knowing
what they want and if they don't we can turn it off.  We have cable and
satelite because the major networks said they know what we want and we
said "no thanks".  They can't take me down.  I try to keep my life
positive and that means what I do, what I watch, and what I don't.
Thanks guys.

Deric M.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 14:46:21 -0500
From: Herb Harrison <herbop@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  "Have Gun, Will Travel" feature film

I checked the site that Rob Chatlin <rchatlin@[removed] kindly noted.
Some comments:
         The site refers to HGWT as "the first adult western".Presumably
they mean on TV; it was an "adult western" on radio as well, but so were
"Fort Laramie" and "Gunsmoke".
         The site says Paladin "lived a split life as a well-off society
man and a reluctant hired avenger of evil". I remember Paladin as being
reluctant to take on "hired-gun" jobs that had no moral purpose. As for the
other, I don't remember that he was accepted in San Francisco "society"; he
was certainly cultured, and he was "well-off". (He often found ways to
collect his hefty fee without charging his "broke" clients when the job was
done.
         The site says "The name Paladin came from the soldier who
commanded Charlemagne's troops." My understanding is that a paladin was an
army's "champion" during the wars of the Crusades: The Christian army would
send out a champion fighter to fight individual combats with a champion
fighter from the Saracen army; each side believed that its god would confer
victory on its champion, representing victory over evil.
         Rob seems to assume that Hey Boy needs to be treated with more
respect than in the OTR programs. It seems to me that Paladin respects the
character as an intelligent, perceptive human being - despite his "low"
status as a hotel servant.

We'll see what happens on-screen when/if the movie comes out. It probably
won't be exactly the same as the OTR or TV [removed] it might be even be
better!

Herb Harrison

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 14:48:14 -0500
From: Derek Tague <derek@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  What's in a (re-used ) name?

Hi Gang:

   Somebody just mentioned "Nick Carter." This reminds me that when I was at
the 2002 FOTR/NJ convention late Sunday morning baby-sitting Anthony Tollin's
merchandise while he was rounding up a rental car at EWR, I found myself
reading the [removed] Daily News. When Tony returned, I told him "I cut out an
article about Nick Carter for you." [removed] was on to my ruse "You mean the
singer, don't you?" Apparently there's a teenage performer with one of those
boy bands ['N'Sync? Backstreet Boys?] born with this name.
   Imagine all those teenaged girls with crushes on this latter-day Nick
entering his name into a search engine only to have to sough through countless
references to some old "Master Detective," who had the name first.
   In turn, this reminds me when I was 11 & the newest rage in publishing were
over-sized books collecting up comic-strips from the '30s & ''40s. I guess
this was touched off by Jules Feiffer's "The Great Comic Book Heroes" in the
mid-1960s. Well, anyway, [removed], the local library had big books containing
the best of "Dick Tracy," "Buck Rogers," "Little Orphan Annie," "Krazy Kat,"
"Superman," & "Batman."
   After having devoured the tome "Superman: From the 1930s to the 1970s," I
was eager for more, looked up "Superman" in the card catalogue, & found a
title called "Man and Superman' by some guy named George Bernard Shaw. When I
asked the librarian for this book, she assured me it wasn't about the Man from
Krypton.
   When I was 20, I took a trip to "the old country" & wrote a postcard to my
best friend telling him I took a picture of the likeness of Jane Seymour at
London's Madame Tussaud's Wax Museum. I got home, developed the pictures, &
totally surpised him when he saw it was a photo of a wax dummy of Jane
Seymour, Henry VII's wife #4, & not Jane Seymour, the actress on whom he had a
crush.
   But then again, Fannie Flagg (nee Patricia Neal), Stewart Granger (ne
James Stewart), and David Bowie (b. David Jones) all had to find new
professional names simply because somebody else was already using them.
Harrison Ford's earliest films credit him as Harrison J. Ford  because there
was a silent film actor named "Harrison Ford" still "on the rolls" well into
the mid 1960s.

   Before I get too far off the subject, this Derek Tague, still in the ether,
signing off.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 14:48:28 -0500
From: ddunfee@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  westerns and otr

Hello,

>From time to time threads speak of sources, including books, about certain
kinds of otr themes; ie. comedy, etc.  Are there such things for westerns?

Thanks

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 15:15:08 -0500
From: Ron Sayles <bogusotr@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  WWII Revisited

About a week or so ago I posed the question, was [removed] good for anything. I
said not much, but I proposed the theory that it extended the life of Olde
Tyme Radio by a few years and it was good for that.

I got a couple of virulent responses saying that of course it was good for
something, it stopped Hitler and Japanese aggression. In particular I  got an
off-line response that asked had I ever taken any courses in American History,
in other words, how dumb could I be.

Lighten up! This is an Olde Tyme Radio list and the question was asked in that
context.

Ron Sayles
Milwaukee, Wisconsin
Make your day, listen to an Olde Tyme Radio Program

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 15:30:50 -0500
From: SanctumOTR@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Re: The Shadow's Greatest Radio Adventures

In a message dated 2/5/03 5:22:03 PM, Rick Keating writes:

In listening to the tapes in my Shadow Greatest Radio
Adventures collection, I've come across two curious
things. First, the accompanying booklet says Bill
Johnstone and Agnes Moorehead are introduced at the
conclusion of the episode "Can the Dead Talk."
However, there's no such introduction on my copy.

***Radio Spirits' first SHADOW CD/cassette collection was prepared during the
transition period when the Illinois office was being shut down and all
operations were being transferred to the New Jersey offices.  I'd recommended
a number of shows for the collection, including the 03/13/39 version of "Can
the Dead Talk" because of the section where Bill and Agnes are introduced to
the radio audience.  RSI's engineers went with the story's 08/27/39 repeat
broadcast from the 1938 Goodrich summer season which was in better sound
quality but didn't include the spot with Johnstone and Moorehead.
Regrettably, I didn't catch the switch until after the collection was
released.  However, the show is the complete Goodrich version as broadcast
the week of 08/27/39. ***

Second, the booklet says the episode "The Ghost Walks
Again" is about an assasinated mob boss rescusitated
by science. However, the actual episode (which has the
same title) is about the Puritan founder of a New
England town allegedly killing those who are ignoring
a law he passed centuries ago about who can use a
local meeting house.

***That one was solely my fault as author of the historical booklet.  A
number of shows were dropped (for sound quality issues) which had originally
been planned for inclusion, and apparently I neglected to change the synopsis
after correcting the title and credits. (That was one of the two shows where
I had already complete acting credits from original sources, and didn't have
to rely on voice identification ... which would have resulted in the
different plot being immediately noticed ... and I was rushing to complete
four books simultaneously.)  Hopefully, we'll be able to correct the synopsis
when the booklet is reprinted.

Other than that, how did you like THE SHADOW'S GREATEST RADIO ADVENTURES?  I
tried to recommend key episodes (including the first appearances of Orson
Welles, Agnes Moorehead, Margot Stevenson, Bill Johnstone and Bret Morrison
in the leading roles, plus historically important stories like the episode
where former-Shadow Frank Readick portrays an evil Shadow doppelganger, some
previously unreleased shows and the full 1947 version of "Spider Boy" (which
had only been available in the butchered 1960s Michelson versions with canned
music replacing Elsie Thompson's organ bridges).

BTW, RSI's second SHADOW collection was just released last month.  THE
SHADOW: RADIO'S GREATEST MAN OF MYSTERY features four Welles shows (including
"The Temple Bells of Neban" w/ Jeanette Nolan) and programs starring
Johnstone, John Archer and Morrison.  The 20-show set also includes "The
Black Abbot" (later reworked as the aforementioned "The Ghost Walks Again"),
"Prelude to Terror " (which was adapted into the 1940 movie serial starring
Victor Jory), "The Man Who Murdered Time" (a really offbeat time-travel
science fiction story), "Dead Men Talk" (Marjorie Anderson's first outing as
Margot), the never-before-commercially released "The Curse of Shiva" and the
classic "Death in a Minor Key" w/ Richard Widmark;  PLUS  episodes costarring
Mercedes McCambridge, Richard "Sherlock Holmes" Gordon and early Shadows
Frank Readick and Jimmy LaCurto.  And how about Mason Adams' only outing as
Shrevie?

I've tried to assemble an entertaining, diverse assortment of adventure,
science fiction, horror, human interest and detective stories.  Please let me
know if you think I succeeded, and how you like the two new RSI SHADOW
collections.

--Anthony Tollin

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 16:57:17 -0500
From: "Joel Thoreson" <misterjoel@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  Dragnet (1967-70)

In Chicagoland, our secondary PBS TV station (WYCC, Channel 20) has started
airing the 1950s Dragnet series once or twice a week. The source appears to
be film versions rather than video transfers, as the "End Act 1" etc., cues
appear, and they appear to be showing them in no discernible order. They
also continue to air the Red Skelton Show, but the Dinah Shore Show is no
longer on their schedule.

Joel

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 21:35:38 -0500
From: "Rodney w bowcock jr." <rodney-selfhelpbikeco@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Re: Thin Man

The person ask
me to find out why there doesn't,t seems to be very many Thin Man shows
in
the hobby.  He wrote that Highman Brown did not respond to his question.
Does any one know if any of the transcription are in private hands , or
stored away at an archive.  Take care,

There are only 5 episodes of The Thin Man that are circulating.
Considering the length of the run, the popularity of the show, and the
time period with which it ran, I'd bet my money that there are more
existing episodes that haven't been released to the general public yet.

Of course, if anyone does have those, they're not going to speak up until
they're ready to release them.  New shows are being found all of the
time, so there's a good chance that more will show up.

Rodney Bowcock
Past Tense Productions
"Classic movies and TV for $7"

--------------------------------
End of [removed] Digest V2003 Issue #59
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