Subject: [removed] Digest V2003 #416
From: <[removed]@[removed]>
Date: 11/19/2003 12:42 PM

To: <[removed]@[removed];

    ------------------------------

                                The Old-Time Radio Digest!
                                  Volume 2003 : Issue 416
                             A Part of the [removed]!
                                     ISSN: 1533-9289

                                     Today's Topics:

      11-19 births/deaths                   [ Ron Sayles <bogusotr@[removed]; ]
      Columbia Workshop                     [ William Brooks <webiii@[removed]; ]
      OTR Performance                       [ Sean Dougherty <seandd@[removed] ]
      Art Carney via Daws Butler            [ benohmart@[removed] ]
      Art Carney/ Tom Hatten                [ "Leslie Feagan" <lfeagan@actorsfcu. ]
      Norman Corwin                         [ howard blue <khovard@[removed]; ]
      Hello Again!                          [ David Phaneuf <david_phaneuf@yahoo. ]
      Re:Nov. 18th births, Eugene Ormandy   [ RickEditor@[removed] ]
      Re: Norman Corwin                     [ Jim Widner <widnerj@[removed]; ]
      Re: Churchill speeches aka Norman Sh  [ Jim Widner <widnerj@[removed]; ]
      re: Fibber and LaTrivia               [ Gerry Wright <gdwright@[removed] ]
      Re: Hermit's Cave                     [ "Michael Ogden" <michaelo67@hotmail ]
      show on mp3 or tape                   [ vigor16@[removed] ]
      Kinescope Film Recordings             [ "MICHAEL BIEL" <mbiel@[removed]; ]
      #OldRadio IRC Chat this Thursday Nig  [ lois@[removed] ]
      How Old is Grandma?                   [ Sean Dougherty <seandd@[removed] ]
      Re: Bad news on KNX Drama Hour        [ Michael Henry <mlhenry@[removed]; ]
      Perry Mason (the radio version)       [ "Robert M. Bratcher Jr." <bratcher@ ]

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 18:35:40 -0500
    From: Ron Sayles <bogusotr@[removed];
    To: Olde Tyme Radio List <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  11-19 births/deaths

    November 19th births

    11-19-1863 - Billy Sunday - Ames, IA - d. 11-6-1935
    preacher: "Back Home Hour"
    11-19-1889 - Clifton Webb - Indianapolis, IN - d. 10-13-1966
    actor: "Lux Radio Theatre"
    11-19-1901 - Charles Webster - England - d. 2-1965
    actor: Dr. Kimball "Life Can Be Beautiful"; Tom Bryson "Backstage Wife"
    11-19-1905 - Tommy Dorsey - Shenandoah, PA - d. 11-26-1956
    bandleader: "Jack Pearl Program"; "Fame and Fortune"; "Tommy Dorsey Show"
    11-19-1919 - Alan Young - North Shields, Northcumberland, England (R:
    Vancouver, Canada)
    comedian: "Alan Young Show"; "Tony Martin Show"; "Jimmy Durante Show"
    11-19-1919 - George Fenneman - Peking, China - d. 5-29-1997
    announcer: "You Bet Your Life"; "Dragnet"
    11-19-1921 - Roy Campenella - Philadelphia, PA - d. 6-26-1993
    sports news: "Campy"s Corner"
    11-19-1923 - Frank Reynolds - East Chicago, IN - d. 7-20-1983
    newscaster: Chicago radio

    November 19th deaths

    01-06-1903 - Francis L. Sullivan - London, England - d. 11-19-1956
    actor: "[removed] Steel Hour"
    05-30-1902 - Stepin Fetchit - Key West, FL - d. 11-19-1985
    comedian: "Hollywood Hotel"
    07-01-1907 - Bill Stern - Rye, NY - d. 11-19-1971
    sportscaster: "Carnival of Champions"; "Colgate Sports Newsreel"

    Ron Sayles
    Milwaukee, Wisconsin

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 19:19:47 -0500
    From: William Brooks <webiii@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Columbia Workshop

    Help!!!

    I am searching for anyone that might have a copy of an episode from
    Columbia Workshop. The show I'm searching is dated 6/7/42 titled
    either "Little One" or "The Little One". I have found the script for
    this show on line and I'm interested in producing a recreation of it.
    I need the recorded show to study for music, timing, and sound
    effects. Please contact me  at webiii@[removed].

    Thanks,

    Bill
    Seattle, Washington

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 19:59:24 -0500
    From: Sean Dougherty <seandd@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  OTR Performance

    For fans in in the Port Charlotte [removed]

    Radio reminiscence
    Peace River Productions has scheduled "Those Were the Days," a nostalgic
    look at the good-old days of radio featuring Jack Benny, the Lone Ranger and
    Burns and Allen. The performances at the Cultural Center of Charlotte
    County, 2280 Aaron St., Port Charlotte are set for Thursday, Friday and
    Saturday at 8 [removed] with a 2:30 [removed] matinee performance on Saturday. Tickets
    are $10 in advance and $12 at the door. Call 625-4175 for information.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 20:00:02 -0500
    From: benohmart@[removed]
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Art Carney via Daws Butler

    Yes, Yogi Bear was indeed based on Art Carney. However, it wasn't a straight
    impersonation. Nothing that Daws Butler voiced was Only impersonations, but definite
    corruptions in a different direction. For instance, Daws would demonstrate the clear
    difference between his mimicking Bert Lahr, and how he did Snagglepuss. They were
    different characters, though certainly similar. The man was The Master. You can find
    out more about him at [removed] or read my book on him, which
    comes out for Christmas 2004.

    Ben

    The Walter Tetley biography
    [removed]

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 20:00:50 -0500
    From: "Leslie Feagan" <lfeagan@[removed];
    To: "old time radio digest" <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Art Carney/ Tom Hatten

    Two TV related items.
    If Tom Hatten didn't host the Popeye show , I never would have gotten the
    chance, as his understudy in the national tour of ANNIE, to go on as FDR when
    he took off to LA to tape some episodes.
        I believe Mel Blanc based his rendition of Barney Rubble on Art Carney's
    Norton, since the FLINTSTONES was a pre-historic take on the HONEYMOONERS.

    Sincerely,
    Leslie Feagan

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 23:47:34 -0500
    From: howard blue <khovard@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Norman Corwin

    "On a Note of Triumph: Norman Corwin and the Golden Years of Radio" by R.
    LeRoy Bannerman lists Corwin's shows.

    Howard Blue

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 23:48:37 -0500
    From: David Phaneuf <david_phaneuf@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Hello Again!

    Hi [removed] I've been away from the OTR Digest for a
    long time. We've moved, been through some
    transitions, and have been busier than I've ever
    been. Thanks to Steve Kallis, Jr, for keeping in
    touch!

    I picked up at a used book store an interesting book
    by Jim Harmon entitled "The Great Radio Heroes",
    Doubleday Books, 1967. The name Jim Harmon sounds
    quite familiar to me. Is he a contributor to this
    digest? Does anyone know anything about him? By the
    way, Jim, in case you're reading [removed] GREAT BOOK! I
    love it!

    And while I'm here, I've lost touch with another
    Digest regular, Cliff [removed],if you're here,
    drop me an email. I'd like to hear from you.

    Blessings folks!
    Dave Phaneuf

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 23:49:51 -0500
    From: RickEditor@[removed]
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Re:Nov. 18th births, Eugene Ormandy
    X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative
    X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain

    In a message dated 11/17/2003 10:18:05 PM Eastern Standard Time,
    [removed]@[removed] writes:
    November 18th births

>     11-18-1899 - Eugene Ormandy - Budapest, Hungary - d. 3-12-1985
>     conductor: "Roxy"s Gang"; "Phildelphia Orchestra"

    Or, as I would write:

    11-18-1899 - Eugene Ormandy - Budapest, Hungary - d. 3-12-1985
    pianist, "Ben Selvin and His Orchestra," "Roxy's Gang," "Philadelphia
    Orchestra."

    heh heh

    rick selvin
    philadelphia

      *** This message was altered by the server, and may not appear ***
      ***                  as the sender intended.                   ***

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 23:50:07 -0500
    From: Jim Widner <widnerj@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Re: Norman Corwin

    At 06:33 PM 11/18/2003, Martin Grams wrote:

>     Sure is.  There was a book all about Norman Corwin and his radio work that
>     also included a log of the majority (90%) of his radio work with some detail
>     including cast and dates and titles.

    The book is called "Norman Corwin and Radio: The Golden Years" by R. Leroy
    Bannerman published by the University of Alabama Press 1986.

    I was fortunate to find my copy via ABEBooks ([removed])

    Corwin's name still maintains a relative high price on this out of print
    book - somewhere in the range of what a normal bestseller in hardback of
    today costs.

    Jim Widner
    [removed]

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 23:50:53 -0500
    From: Jim Widner <widnerj@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Re: Churchill speeches aka Norman Shelley

    At 06:33 PM 11/18/2003, Bob Fells wrote:

>     but the voice
>     double spoke without Mr. Churchill's speech impediment that sounded too
>     perfect.

    One of the comments from the original Observer article that I didn't
    mention in that previous post was this comment by Shelley on trying to
    capture the speech impediment:

    "Shelley told reporters in the Seventies that Churchill had even
    complimented him on getting his teeth right. 'My father said he had taken
    his own false teeth out for the part,' remembered Anthony [Shelley], who is
    a conductor. He said that at the height of the war the British Council had
    asked his father to impersonate Churchill for broadcasts in America. "

    Jim Widner
    [removed]

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 23:52:53 -0500
    From: Gerry Wright <gdwright@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  re: Fibber and LaTrivia

    Paula spoke thus:

>     Once upon a time I owned a tape of a Fibber McGee and
>     Molly show in which LaTriv and McGee get into a discussion of buying a
>     ticket for an upper berth because it was cheaper.  It ends with one of
>     those classic sputtering summaries by LaTrivia in which he stops
>     suddenly, and [removed] "[removed]"

>     Can anyone identify the episode for me?

    Today I was listing to March 1949 radio shows in my mp3 collection
    (iTunes on a Mac has changed my listening habits) and along came the
    March 22, 1949 Fibber McGee & Molly show (Title: The New Dress) which
    has Fibber acting as a dress model for the dress Molly is making,
    eventually Mayor LaTrivia makes his appearance, and LaTrivia starts
    telling how his wife saved money by buying an upper berth because it was
    lower ... (This rountine could have easily been written for Abbott and
    Costello).

    Gerry Wright
    ZoneZebra Productions
    San Francisco

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 01:31:07 -0500
    From: "Michael Ogden" <michaelo67@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Re: Hermit's Cave

    Mike Kerezman asked how many HERMIT'S CAVE episodes survive. Well, actually,
    he answered his own question, since I believe he listed every single
    circulating show. Not a particularly high rate of survival for a series that
    lasted 12 years, from 1935 to 1947. I'm referring here to the original
    WJR-Detroit series. Most of the existing shows are WJR broadcasts or World
    Broadcasting transcriptions taken from the WJR lines. Three shows--"The Lost
    Black Crow Mine," "The Man with White Hair," and "Mr. Randall's
    Discovery"--are from the KMPC-Beverly Hills version, which ran from 1940 to
    1944. The 15-minute "Dark House," I believe from internal evidence, is not
    an authentic HERMIT'S CAVE, but a fan re-creation possibly from the Sixties.
    (The same fan also did his own version of Arch Oboler's "Chicken Heart.").
    And "The Devil's Scrapbook" is not a HERMIT episode, but rather an entirely
    separate series that nevertheless has a HERMIT connection in that the
    producer and star of the show, Charles Penman, was part of the WJR group
    that created THE HERMIT'S CAVE in the first place

    I have been working for many years on a HERMIT'S CAVE log, with great
    success in determining dates of broadcast but only moderate success in
    finding episode titles and story descriptions. It's still very much a work
    in progress, but I hope to publish it in a couple of years as part of a book
    that I'm working on.

    Oh, I almost forgot. WJR claims they don't have anything relating to the
    HERMIT, but back in the Seventies when they did a special saluting their own
    history, they used a HERMIT clip from a Christmas show that is definitely
    not among the shows in circulation. [removed] The Hermit may "know of them
    all," but he sure as heck ain't sharing!

    Mike Ogden

    by service area.)

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 01:38:16 -0500
    From: vigor16@[removed]
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  show on mp3 or tape

    Hi everybody,

    October is my 16th birthday in OTR collecting. I'd like to find a show I
    had a badly recorded copy of years ago.  Do anybody have any info about
    it.  I figure a bad copy came from somewhere, could be another bad copy,
    but then I will know.  It is a show, I believe was called, "The day they
    gave babies away".  The tape I have lists it as a Christmas show of the
    CBS radio workshop, but no logs, I've found to date show that title.  The
    other side "All is bright" was listed.  Could I have the right program, I
    am wondering, hmm hmm? Any info about that show which was about  a family
    where the parents die and the oldest boy and his brothers are delivered
    to various homes for Christmas.  It is told in the retelling format after
    many years, I believe.  The copy I have gets real hard to hear about
    halfway through the recording.

    Thanks for hobbying with me

    Deric

    Nice to hear from you!
    God and I care
    Deric J. McCoy  "
    314-352-0890

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 01:57:26 -0500
    From: "MICHAEL BIEL" <mbiel@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Kinescope Film Recordings

    The discussion during the past few days about Kinescope Film Recording has
    included some accurate and some misleading descriptions of the process.
    One thing that always confuses the issue is the misunderstanding that the
    stations just slapped together a film camera and a TV monitor.  While it
    could be done that crudely (and Jack Paar did have such a crude set-up at
    his home) most stations and networks used professionally manufactured
    equipment that was finely designed specifically for this purpose only.  As
    was mentioned, the camera had a special shutter designed for synchronizing
    with the TV frame rate, and the TV picture tube was a specially designed
    high-definition Kinescope tube of about a 5-inch size for low distortion
    and high resolution.  Special film stock was available which was formulated
    for maximum sensitivity at the exact screen color of that specific
    Kinescope tube.

    Using this equipment and film stock, a properly made Kinescope Film
    Recording could provide excellent results.  But part of the reason for the
    comments some people make about the poor quality of Kinescopes is that you
    are viewing the Kinescopes on television, not actually seeing the film
    itself being projected on a screen.  Seeing the Kine on TV is doubling the
    generational quality loss.  While it is possible to do good video transfers
    of Kines--digest member Fred Berney has been doing as good transfers of
    Kines onto DVD as I have ever seen, and I recommend his work highly--even
    Fred will tell you that there is nothing like seeing the original Kine film
    being well projected live onto a screen.

    I occasionally project to my broadcast history classes the original Kine I
    have of a complete "Martin Kane, Private Eye" program from December 1951
    where several of the scenes were lit only with hand-held flashlights.
    There are also some details, such as fake headlines glued onto The New York
    Times, that can be seen clearly on the Kine.  I once loaned the film to NBC
    in exchange for a professional transfer of it onto broadcast quality
    3/4-inch U-matic tape (so I could stop projecting the film) but all the
    details I point out to my classes were lost on the tape transfer.  Maybe
    Fred can do a better job.

    Another program I show to my classes is a 1975 CBS-TV  program about early
    live television called "The Golden Age of TV".  It opens with Charles
    Kurault in the CBS VideoTape machine room explaining that you are just
    seeing the taped Kurault because he was home watching the show just like
    you are.  But then explaining that most TV in the 50s was in black and
    white, they turn off the color on his picture.  Then he explains that
    VideoTape was actually the enemy of early TV preservation because it was
    erasable, and he walks over to a Kinescope Film Recorder.  So there you can
    see a professionally purpose-made machine.  And after he explained what the
    machine did, the picture and the sound switches over from the tape to a
    Kine of the rest of the scene.  It is a wonderfully succinct presentation
    of the differences between live/tape and Kine.  He then wanders down an
    aisle of the CBS-TV film vault.  Drool !!!!!!!!!  And then for the next
    hour and a half he shows and analyzes some great stuff that even you
    anti-TV OTR buffs would love.

    Kinescope Film Recordings could be done in color as well as black & white.
    Johnny Carson used to show a few film clips on his anniversary programs
    that were color Kines.  I have a couple of color Kines myself, and as I
    type this I am keeping my fingers crossed hoping that the film stock was
    not the damnable EastmanColor, and that these films have not faded to
    magenta.  I haven't checked them in years.  One is of a Leonard Bernstein
    Young People's Concert, and I remember that if you looked closely at the
    screen you could see the dot structure of the color Kinescope tube.  I've
    also seen some black & white Kines of color shows that also show that dot
    structure, which means that they had originally filmed the Kine in color,
    but that this was, unfortunately, a black & white print struck off the
    color negative.  In the late 1960s an improved system of filming called
    Electronic Beam Recording was developed that could deliver razor-sharp
    films that would rival the picture quality of the original live or
    videotape picture.  The quality was stunning.

    One of the unfortunate failings of the Museum of Television and Radio is
    that they do not preserve films and Kines of TV programs in the original
    film format, but that they transfer all of them to video.  This has
    horrorfied all true film historians, because although there have been great
    strides made recently in video projection and transfers, the archival
    originals of films must be preserved in the original film format.  The MT&R
    has been a laughing stock of the entire film archival community because of
    their ignorant refusal to preserve archival originals in their original
    format.  It is asanine to go to one of their public screenings where they
    video-project programs which were either originally shot on film or were
    preserved as a Kine.  They do not own any film projection equipment.  But
    there is an amazing difference between the projection of a film vs. the
    projection of that film from a video transfer.  That they have wasted
    hundreds of millions of dollars on real estate, but won't spend a few
    hundred dollars making preservation film prints of film originals, is
    shamefully disgusting.  That it doesn't bother them is criminal.

    I  enjoyed Vincente Tobias's comment of seeing a televised Kine of Perry
    Como singing Christmas carols after New Years.  NBC used to call their
    network of TV affiliates that showed delayed Kines the Teletranscription
    Network.  I have a soundtrack of a Kukla, Fran, and Ollie program from the
    early 50s where they explained to their live viewers why they were doing a
    Christmas program in September.  It was so that the stations waaaaayyy down
    the chain of Teletranscription Network stations would be able to have an
    actual Christmas program sometime around Christmas!!

    To bring this back to what started the discussion, Bill Murtough's
    description of the DuMont Electroncam system used for the Honeymooners
    classic 39 was quite correct.  The show was directly filmed, and TV cameras
    coupled to the film cameras allowed the director to switch from camera to
    camera while the show was being filmed.  The switching decisions started
    and stopped the films, and numbers flashed on the films indicated the
    director's decisions.  When the films were developed it would then be very
    easy and quick to edit the films together from the three or four different
    cameras by following the numbers flashed on the films.  DuMont invented
    this system to try to keep their failing network afloat by sending their
    programs to affiliates on film instead of continuing to pay the expensive
    co-axial cable rates.  It didn't work to save the network, but it did
    provide us with very high quality images on those 39 programs.

    Michael Biel  mbiel@[removed]

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 03:36:00 -0500
    From: lois@[removed]
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  #OldRadio IRC Chat this Thursday Night!

    A weekly [removed]

    For the best in OTR Chat, join IRC (Internet Relay Chat), StarLink-IRC
    Network, the channel name is #OldRadio.  We meet Thursdays at 8 PM Eastern
    and go on, and on! The oldest OTR Chat Channel, it has been in existence
    over six years, same time, same channel!

    Our numerous "regulars" include one of the busiest "golden years" actors in
    Hollywood; a sound man from the same era who worked many of the top
    Hollywood shows; a New York actor famed for his roles in "Let's Pretend" and
    "Archie Andrews;" owners of some of the best OTR sites on the Web;
    maintainer of the best-known OTR Digest (we all know who he is)..........

    and Me

    Lois Culver
    KWLK Longview Washington (Mutual) 1941-1944)
    KFI Los Angeles (NBC) 1944 - 1950
    and widow of actor Howard Culver

    (For more info, contact lois@[removed])

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 14:32:30 -0500
    From: Sean Dougherty <seandd@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  How Old is Grandma?

    This sort of amusing article from the Times & Democrat mentions Jack Benny
    as well as a  bunch of other cultural changes that have happened since the
    Golden Age of Radio.

    [removed]

    Sean Dougherty
    SeanDD@[removed]

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 14:32:43 -0500
    From: Michael Henry <mlhenry@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Re: Bad news on KNX Drama Hour

    I wish KNX had eliminated the Drama Hour when I was at UC Riverside in
    the late 80's and early 90's. That way,  I would have spent  my Saturday
    nights partying and getting drunk along with my fellow college students
    instead of staying home to listen to Jack Benny and Burns & Allen ;-)

    -Mike Henry
    Library of American Broadcasting

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 14:33:00 -0500
    From: "Robert M. Bratcher Jr." <bratcher@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Perry Mason (the radio version)

    A few questions while I'm downloading a whole bunch of Mason's off a newsgroup.
    Does anybody know how many storylines (cases) there are?
    What episode numbers start & end each storyline?
    Are any complete or do they have missing chapters?
    In other words is it possible to listen to all (or most) of each case from
    beginning to end?

    --------------------------------
    End of [removed] Digest V2003 Issue #416
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