------------------------------
The Old-Time Radio Digest!
Volume 2006 : Issue 329
A Part of the [removed]!
[removed]
ISSN: 1533-9289
Today's Topics:
The original black Friday [ <otrbuff@[removed]; ]
RE: MP3 Player fitted in Auto's [ "Rick Botti" <rbotti@[removed]; ]
Mono vs. Stereo [ "Sammy Jones" <sjones69@[removed] ]
11-24 births/deaths [ Ronald Sayles <bogusotr@[removed] ]
Mp3 rules of doing a trade [ <rjsmith608@[removed]; ]
iPod? [ Ed Mulligan <fangle@[removed]; ]
Re: Robert Altman [ Jordan Young <jyoung@[removed]; ]
OTR and MP3 [ Tom Greenli <tom_greenli@[removed]; ]
Just a "bit" more on Sound [ Ken Greenwald <radio@[removed]; ]
Re: I Pod and OTR and .wav [ Brent Pellegrini <brentpl@rocketmai ]
Digital Audio [ "Paul Grieves" <paul@[removed]. ]
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2006 19:41:20 -0500
From: <otrbuff@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: The original black Friday
As the anniversary of "the day radio drama died" (November 25, 1960)
approached including most of the last vestiges of dramatic and musical fare
and some other features of the golden age, I listened on Thanksgiving
afternoon to a tape commemorating it. It's not the last day itself, which
has been widely distributed and in circulation for decades, but the more
limited November 24 broadcasts -- the CBS day before the end of it all.
As I followed it once more it seemed appropriate in real time that this was
Thanksgiving. I was particularly filled with gratitude for three fellows
who made the tape possible. Back on the anniversary in 1991, on their Los
Angeles show "Same Time, Same Station," Larry and John Gassman aired a tape
recording of the CBS daytime serials that had been recorded by Chris
Lembesis on that imposing day in 1960, taken from airchecks of KNX
programming. Thank you, Chris, and thank you Larry and John! It's the tape
of the Gassman show featuring Chris's original recording that I possess.
While I feel confident it is now in circulation via multiple sources, they
may be few.
It includes the next-to-last chapters of The Couple Next Door, The Right to
Happiness, CBS News for that hour, Whispering Streets, Ma Perkins, Young
Doctor Malone and The Second Mrs. Burton. The story lines in almost all
have a Thanksgiving Day theme as they aired on Thursday of that momentous
week. All of those shows left the air permanently the following day. That
same night (Nov. 25) The Amos 'n' Andy Music Hall was swept under the rug
along with Bing Crosby and Rosemary Clooney and several other weeknight
features. On Sunday, Nov. 27 Have Gun, Will Travel rode off into the
sunset. Arthur Godfrey, Gunsmoke, Suspense and Yours Truly, Johnny Dollar
were given pardons for a while but the handwriting was indelible. The local
affiliates, which had been threatening to leave the CBS fold for most of the
1950s if increasing network time wasn't cleared for their own sales
departments, finally got their wish. In a real sense it was the original
black Friday.
I'm particularly grateful Chris was listening that day ... and that he
shared with John and Larry.
Jim Cox
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2006 16:13:39 -0500
From: "Rick Botti" <rbotti@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: RE: MP3 Player fitted in Auto's
MP3 Player fitted in Auto's
I tried several FM transmitters for use in my car. I finally found one
call "3 in ! Car Kit model 80" on EBay for around $18.
It plugs into your car's cigarette lighter and comes with a choice of
4 preset frequencies. To me, the bet thing about it that
it will keep your IPod battery charged and the transmission volume is
automatic, no adjusting it every time I plug it in. I use
this one everyday for OTR and music. The only drawback is that there
is no on/off switch, when I don't want to use it I must pull it out.
Other than that I love the little thing.
Rick Botti
[removed]
- ----------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2006 16:14:30 -0500
From: "Sammy Jones" <sjones69@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: Mono vs. Stereo
I am an old hand at recording mono material, and
at transferring recordings from device to device ([removed], from tape to
tape), and my long experience (many years) has taught me that if you
record a mono piece in stereo, there might not SEEM to be any difference,
but there definitely IS one when you carefully compare them side-by-side.
The difference is admittedly hard to pinpoint -- the sound is simply
sharper, clearer, and has subtly more presence to it. I also notice
that in many cases the bass stands out better.
Glenn,
Can you please be more specific? How are you recording mono in stereo?
Recording mono in stereo by definition yields two identical tracks. Perhaps
you meant to refer to full- or half-track mono compared to quarter-track?
Full- and half-track arguably yield higher frequency response than
quarter-track, but mono copied to 2-channel stereo is not stereo; it's
2-channel mono!
Or maybe you're using a quarter-track stereo head to play back half-track
mono. The sound will definitely be different than if you're playing back
with a half- or full-track head: the right channel should go in and out of
phase (this is not necessarily a good thing).
I'm really curious to know what you mean about the sound being sharper and
clearer. A mono source cannot be improved simply by copying it to 2-channel
(unless some tricky equalization/restoration is employed).
Happy Thanksgiving, everybody!
Sammy
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2006 16:14:37 -0500
From: Ronald Sayles <bogusotr@[removed];
To: Olde Tyme Radio Digest Digest <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: 11-24 births/deaths
X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative
X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain
November 24th births
11-24-1888 - Cathleen Nesbitt - Belfast, Northern Ireland - d. 8-2-1982
actor: "Philco Radio Playhouse"
11-24-1888 - Dale Carnegie - Maryville, MO - d. 11-1-1955
author, lecturer: "How to Win Friends and Influence People"
11-24-1891 - Ben Gross - Birmingham, AL - d. 8-13-1979
wrote newspaper column critiquing radio
11-24-1900 - Ireene Wicker - Quincy, IL - d. 11-17-1987
actor: (The Singing Lady) Sylvia Bertram "Road of Life"; Eileen Moran
"Today's Children"
11-24-1903 - Bernard Lenrow - Binghamton, NY - d. 10-9-1963
actor: Geoffrey Barnes "Molle Mystery Theatre"
11-24-1905 - Harry Barris - NYC - d. 12-13-1962
singer (member of The Rhythm Boys) "Paul Whiteman Presents"
11-24-1905 - Vee Lawnhurst - NYC - d. unknown
pianist, singer: "The Van Huesen Program"
11-24-1906 - Don McLaughlin - Webster, IA - d. 5-28-1986
actor: David Harding "Counterspy"; "Jim Brent "Road of Life";
Chaplain Jim "Chaplain Jim"
11-24-1906 - Willard P. Farnum - Mankato, MN - d. 3-29-1994
actor: Harold Teen "Harold Teen"; John Adams "Woman in White"
11-24-1908 - Worth Kramer - d. 7-19-1998
director: "Wings Over Jordan"
11-24-1910 - Pegeen Fitzgerald - Norcatur, KS - d. 1-30-1989
host: "The Fitzgeralds"
11-24-1911 - Kirby Grant - Butte, MO - d. 10-30-1985
singer, actor: "Gatewood to Hollywood"; "Hollywood Barn Dance"
11-24-1912 - Garson Kanin - Rochester, NY - d. 3-13-1999
actor: "Lux Radio Theatre"
11-24-1912 - Teddy Wilson - Austin, TX - d. 7-31-1986
jazz pianist: "Benny Goodman and His Orchestra"; "Saturday Night
Swing Club"
11-24-1913 - Geraldine Fitzgerald - Dublin, Ireland - d. 7-17-2005
actor: "Arthur Hopkins Presents"; "Ford Theatre"; "Cavalcade of America"
11-24-1918 - Lee Bonnell (Terry Belmont) - Royal Center, IN - d.
5-12-1986
actor: (Husband of Gale Storm) "Gateway to Hollywood"
11-24-1927 - Eileen Barton - Brooklyn, NY - d. 6-27-2006
singer: "Frank Sinatra Show"; "Eileen Barton Show"; "MGM Musical
Comedy Theatre"
November 24th deaths
01-17-1914 - Howard Marion-Crawford - England - d. 11-24-1969
actor: Sherlock Holmes "BBC Home Theatre"
02-16-1909 - Jeffrey Lynn - Auburn, MA - d. 11-24-1995
actor: "Lux Radio Theatre"; "Hallmark Playhouse:' "MGM Theatre of the
Air"
02-26-1916 - Dick Dunham - NYC - d. 11-24-1989
announcer: "Strange Romance of Evelyn Winters"
03-10-1909 - Bob Taplinger - d. 11-24-1975
head of publicity CBS: Credited with idea of Gracie Allen"s lost brother
04-06-1921 - Arnold Marquis - Dortmund, Germany - d. 11-24-1990
producer, writer: "Pacific Story"; "Unlimited Horizons"
04-23-1921 - Warren Spahn - Buffalo, NY - d. 11-24-2003
hall of fame pitcher: "Tops in Sports"
05-06-1908 - Parkyakarkus (Harry Einstein) - Boston, MA - d. 11-24-1958
comedian: "Eddie Cantor Show"; "Al Jolson Show"; "Meet Me at Parkys"
06-02-1879 - Florence Edney - London, England - d. 11-24-1950
actor: Aunt Maizie "Amanda of Honeymoon Hill"
06-08-1907 - Craig McDonnell - Buffalo, NY - d. 11-24-1956
actor: Dinty Moore "Bringing Up Father"; Jolly Rogers "Valiant Lady"
07-11-1888 - Dr. Lyman Bryson - Valentine, NE - d. 11-24-1959
moderator: "American School of the Air"; "Invitation to Learning";
"People's Platform"
08-02-1902 - Guy Repp - d. 11-24-1986
actor: Dr. Abernathy "County Seat"; Benito Mussoline "Our Secret Weapon"
09-26-1895 - George Raft - NYC - d. 11-24-1980
actor: Rocky Jordan "Rocky Jordan"
12-23-1893 - Anne O'Neal - St. Louis, MO - d. 11-24-1971
actor: Cynthia Veryberry "Grapevine Rancho"
12-24-1895 - Ruth Chatterton - NYC - d. 11-24-1961
actor: "Lux Radio Theatre"
xx-xx-xxxx - Fred Jeske - d. 11-24-1957
actor: Uncle Remus "Uncle Remus"
Ron Sayles
*** This message was altered by the server, and may not appear ***
*** as the sender intended. ***
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2006 16:17:06 -0500
From: <rjsmith608@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Mp3 rules of doing a trade
I was wondering what the new rules are for trading OTR on Mp3 and how should
I set up the ID3 tags? Any help would be greatly apprecated.
Richard j Smith
La Crosse, Wisconsin
[ADMINISTRIVIA: I've always been fascinated about the idea of "trading" MP3s;
since there's no real cost involved, why woulod aonyone "trade" them? I mean,
if I have a show someone wants, they are welcomed to have a copy. I know
there are boatloads of people on this list who have done the same for me when
I was looking for something, so does it make any sense at all to trade MP3s?
--cfs3]
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2006 16:23:34 -0500
From: Ed Mulligan <fangle@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: iPod?
But I was wondering if anyone has experience using an iPod or similar MP3
player for listening to OTR. Specifically, I was wondering how much memory I
would need to be able to listen for a reasonable length of time without
having to frequently download new stuff. Does anyone know how much OTR one
can expect to store on a player that has, say, 2G of memory?
I just don't see the iPod hype. Seems overpriced to me.
I use an older Archos Jukebox recorder 15GB player. The secret is using
the freeware OS for it, not the stuff Archos installed.
[removed]
Free, better features, better sound, better volume control steps, etc.
Easy to do as well. I see the Archos having a few advantages: They are
still cheap on eBay. They use four AA NiMh rechargeable batteries, so no
high $$$ spares needed. They use standard notebook hard drives, so feel
free to upgrade to some huge amount if you want. It has both digital and
analog outputs.
I also use one of the tiny USB memory stick MP3 players. Search eBay for
"USB MP3 FM 1GB" and wait for one to sell cheap. I got mine for $25
shipped with an FM transmitter. They run off a single AAA battery. Many
different makers and case styles, but most are about the same thing under
the hood. See [removed] Toys-R-Us has one on sale for
$[removed] if anyone plans on hitting Black Friday sales. (No, I have no
connection to the company, just saw the ad in the paper.)
In both cases I get more than enough listening time without reloading. The
big factor is the bitrate of your files. The Archose is heavier and a
little more fragile with the HD inside. It gets used for listening around
the house and in the car. The little 1GB player works for times I need
something small and tough.
Ed
[ADMINISTRIVIA: Visit The Computer Geeks and check out the current list of
MP3 players they carry; no worrying about auction ripoffs (they're a real
store), and they have great deals on imports and closeouts. (Just received an
order from them [removed] for the new Playstation2 we picked up used.)
And if you want to support the Digest, you can use our affiliate link to
visit them and we'll get a few cents' commission should you order:
[removed]
--cfs3]
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2006 16:23:44 -0500
From: Jordan Young <jyoung@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Re: Robert Altman
Per my post last summer, Robert Altman wrote one script for "A Man
Called X" and a few other radio scripts before moving into television.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2006 16:24:47 -0500
From: Tom Greenli <tom_greenli@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: OTR and MP3
I find it interesting that the MP3 format comes under
assault about once every six months or so. I'm a bit
of an audiophile and my friends frown upon the notion
of compressed audio. However, when done right MP3's
can sound every bit as good as the source material. I
have participated in hundreds of hours of blind
testing before I came to this conclusion. I'd
challenge anyone in my area "Albuquerque, NM" to one
of these blind tests. The source material is key. If
you have an eighth generation tape you might as well
not worry too much because as some other posters have
mentioned "garbage in > garbage out". I buy a lot of
my OTR from FGRA because of their high level of
quality. In fact my family just got finished listening
to the first day of "The Cinnamon Bear" tonight. The
sound quality is outstanding. I'd bet my next paycheck
that if I encoded these episodes properly NOBODY would
be able to tell the difference between the original
and the MP3. The trick is getting the source to a WAV
file on your hard drive and then encoding the WAV
using a method known as VBR (V)ariable (B)it (R)ate.
VBR uses more "bits" when complex portions of the
audio call for them and less "bits" during the quieter
passages. Using the more common CBR (C)onstant (B)it
(R)ate's such as 32kbs, 48kbs, 54kbs, 64kbs, 96kbs etc
waste bits when they are not needed and starves the
codec when they are needed resulting in a poor
sounding audio file. I could get in to more detail
about this but I'd rather point you to this link;
[removed] If you have any questions
please feel free to contact me via e-mail.
Love it or hate it the MP3 format used properly is a
great way to share OTR for many years to come. Don't
base your opinion on the poorly encoded sound files
that pollute the internet.
Tom
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2006 16:25:15 -0500
From: Ken Greenwald <radio@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Just a "bit" more on Sound
Wayne Johnson states:
Here I MUST disagree. I am an old hand at recording mono material, and
at transferring recordings from device to device ([removed], from tape to
tape), and my long experience (many years) has taught me that if you
record a mono piece in stereo, there might not SEEM to be any
difference,
but there definitely IS one when you carefully compare them side-by-
side.
Wayne, you mention your transferring is from tape to tape. There is
an interesting phenomenon that I have noticed when doing just that.
Let's say I have two open reel machines and the show I want to
transfer to one machine has been recorded half track. But the
playback machine is only a quarter track machine. So, I have to feed
the left channel into the second recorder to make the copy. What I
have noticed is that the sound from the quarter track playback
machine appears to be clearer and sharper. How can this be. I am
playing a 1/2 track recording with a tape head this is only seeing
1/2 of that half track recording. Well, the answer lies in the
electronics of the recorders. It may just be that your dubs from one
machine to another are in different configurations. Maybe your
playback machine is a cassette machine instead of an open reel
machine. The electronics (the preamp, etc.) can be different on each
machine, giving the sense that the new tape dub is actually cleaner
and brighter. This has happened to me a number of times. So, Wayne,
you are right, there is a difference. But that difference is not
necessarily what a recoding engineer would call accurate transferring
of a radio show. In the long run, different people hear what they
interpret as better or poorer sound. As example, you may read the
specs on several different speakers and discover that one of them has
the highest specs. That's the speaker you want. So you listen to it
and, somehow, it doesn't sound right to you. So you buy a different
speaker, even with the specs showing it is not as good in comparison.
Well, when people ask me which speakers to purchase, I always say:
"Whichever speakers sound the best to your ears."
Thank you Elisabeth for your very accurate description of electrical
transcriptions and on what equipment they are heard.
Everyone has been talking about the frequency range and the clarity
of radio shows on different media, [removed]: mp3, CDs, open reel tape,
cassettes, etc.
But no one has mentioned "headroom" --- a major factor in the clarity
and full range of a show.
To fill a room with good clean sound, it takes only about 1 to 3
watts of power. And you might be blasting the sound with even that
much. Now, are you going to purchase an amp that is only 10 watts a
channel? I mean, if you're only listening to 1 watt or so, what do
you need more power for? You need more power for head room, that area
where you have enough power to handle the signal. If you have a loud
gunshot on a radio show, that 10 watt amp won't be able to handle it,
and you end up with distortion. Oh, you could play the show at a low
volume and that would be all right, but you might miss parts of the
show if you walk around or stick your head into the closet to get
something.
When you have a high powered amp, you are giving the radio show
"breathing room" so that everything that is clean and clear will
remain clean and clear.
The same applies to recording mp3s at the LEAST LEVEL of compression.
That way you are getting your shows as close to the original and
giving them room to breath in case of loud passages. You won't get
the digital artifacts creeping in. I may be opening a can of worms
here because analog sound and digital sound are different in certain
ways, but it all leads to the same thing. Greater listening pleasure
if you get the clearest sound. You can hear all the little "things"
in a broadcast that constantly add to the feel and aura of a show, be
it comedy, mystery, variety or what have you .......
Ken Greenwald
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2006 16:25:46 -0500
From: Brent Pellegrini <brentpl@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Re: I Pod and OTR and .wav
Someone said why not put everything in .wav and be done with it. Well a .wav file
is huge compared to an mp3. For example a song in mp3 that is 3,801 KB converts to 27,924 KB in
.wav format.
Regarding an IPOD and OTR I wouldn't even mess with 2 gigabytes. I've got a Zen Jukebox.
I bought a 60 gigabyte laptop hard drive and put it in and I've more stuff on there than I can
ever
listen too. All the Suspense shows, all the Johnny Dollar,all the Gunsmokes, all the Jack Benny
and about 20 other series and maybe 50 books on tape, Lord Buckley, all the BBC Lord Peter
Wimsey, Firesign Theater, Joe Frank, BBC shows, and gigabytes of music. It's incredible. I'm
leaving for 5 months in Mexico soon so I'm set for any downtime. I'm also bringing maybe 50 old
movies I downloaded off [removed] Feature films in the public domain.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2006 16:26:14 -0500
From: "Paul Grieves" <paul@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: Digital Audio
As many have pointed out, one of the fundamental points of recording audio
is the dynamic range of the end product. This is true whether we're talking
about tape, audio cd's, mp3's or wav's. Obviously the broader the range,
the more scope there is to capture the full experience of actually being at
the source of the sound, listening live.
But there is slightly more to the story than simply the sound. When cd's
first came out, they were touted as the best audio representations you could
get. Their high quality became a key point in the explosion of their use.
Many audio enthusiasts disputed this and passionately defended the old
fashioned tape and vinyl recordings. Generally this was dismissed as
clinging to the past.
As time has gone by, it has now been recognised that you don't simply "hear"
sound. There are high and low frequencies that you "feel". Anyone who has
ever been to a live performance of anything will recognise the effect of
sometimes "feeling" inside the audio. A stirring passage of music, a rumble
of an explosion, [removed] Various frequencies and combinations of
frequencies will actually vibrate your body and give you a richer experience
than simply hearing them through your ears.
In order to fit sound onto audio cd's, manufacturers need to have a set
range of frequencies. That way they can set a fixed capacity on each disk.
However in order to achieve this, the basic approach is to snip anything
outside of these boundaries.
Sony a few years back, finally recognised this and released a new generation
of "super" cd's which extended the dynamic range of the recordings.
Unfortunately it was too little, too late. The market has embraced audio
cd's to the point that new variants don't stand a chance. In fact look what
has happened to DVD audio - nothing ! The disks came and went.
So one of the basic reasons why an original vinyl or tape can sound "fuller"
and "richer" might not be as simple as the sound that is heard, but also the
sound that is felt !
--------------------------------
End of [removed] Digest V2006 Issue #329
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