Subject: [removed] Digest V2003 #133
From: "OldRadio Mailing Lists" <[removed]@[removed];
Date: 3/30/2003 1:08 PM

To: <[removed]@[removed];

    ------------------------------

                                The Old-Time Radio Digest!
                                  Volume 2003 : Issue 133
                             A Part of the [removed]!
                                     ISSN: 1533-9289

                                     Today's Topics:

      re: Story Arcs in Radio               [ Froggievilleus <froggievilleus@yaho ]
      Cincinnati OTR programs               [ otrdigest@[removed] ]
      Re: Serial Storytelling Techniques    [ Elizabeth McLeod <lizmcl@[removed] ]
      Grover's Mill Monument                [ "Harry" <hb1379@[removed]; ]
      Haearing he original OTRs             [ RadioCM25@[removed] ]
      Tom Corbett, Space Cadet              [ "Martin Grams, Jr." <mmargrajr@hotm ]
      Grover's Mill & WOTW                  [ Twizoner@[removed] ]
      Gordon Payton                         [ "Martin Grams, Jr." <mmargrajr@hotm ]
      Otr Named Places                      [ lynn wagar <philcolynn@[removed]; ]
      Johnson Family, Gildersleeve, Shirle  [ "Don Frey" <alanladdsr@[removed] ]
      WARMING UP THE AUDIENCE               [ "Andolina, Joe" <Joe_Andolina@cable ]
      OLDE TYME RADIO NETWORK Schedule for  [ HERITAGE4@[removed] ]
      Story arcs in radio & modern TV       [ Herb Harrison <herbop@[removed] ]
      Re: Daily News Covers the Gotham Rad  [ StevenL751@[removed] ]
      Grover's Mill                         [ Larry Gassman <lgsinger@[removed] ]

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 17:52:32 -0500
    From: Froggievilleus <froggievilleus@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  re: Story Arcs in Radio

    One series that definitely had some story arcs that
    comes to mind is The Great Gildersleeve.  The two arcs
    that come to mind are the abandoned baby story line
    and when Marjorie and Bronco were expecting a baby,
    which ended up being twins, and the story that follows
    the naming of them.

    I hope that this helps aid in the discussion of this
    topic.  :)

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 17:58:46 -0500
    From: otrdigest@[removed]
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Cincinnati OTR programs

    WVXU has lots of OTR. Go to this page and click on
    Saturday or Sunday.

    [removed]

    Andrew Steinberg
    Who Lives within the WVXU listening area

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 20:33:04 -0500
    From: Elizabeth McLeod <lizmcl@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Re: Serial Storytelling Techniques

    On 3/29/03 5:56 PM OldRadio Mailing Lists wrote:

>     Little tidbits were thrown into the story line that built plot, action
>     and dialogue, yet which might not be retrieved for many months, setting
>     the stage for the stirring climax ahead.

    This is a technique pioneered by Correll and Gosden -- who were using
    identical methods as early as 1928 (and even earlier if you count "Sam
    and Henry.") Rather than working in discrete story units, the A&A serial
    storylines were entirely open-ended, moving from plotline to plotline in
    a very gradual progression -- with foundations laid for future plot
    threads many months in advance. These threads would gradually build in
    importance before reaching their climax, and then would recede to make
    way for the next major plotline. In the midst of all this, several other
    plot threads would be developing in paralell to the main sequence, and
    gave the series an uncanny sense of realistic, real-time pacing. Just as
    real life has many "plot threads" running at once, so did the original
    "Amos 'n' Andy."

    There were several "Amos 'n' Andy" plot sequences that played out over a
    very long span of time -- Amos's courtship of Ruby Taylor, for example,
    required more than *seven years* to reach its payoff, and the paralell
    plotline of Andy's on-again, off-again relationship with Madam Queen was
    a major thread in the story from 1929 to 1935. A mention by Amos in the
    spring of 1933 that someday he'd like to run a grocery store was a plot
    seed that wouldn't sprout until the fall of 1935. Madam Queen's
    breach-of-promise suit against Andy in 1931 initiated a series of events
    that would lead to Frederick Montgomery Gwindell's affair with the Madam
    in 1933 -- followed by his suit against Andy for alienation of
    affections, which brought Andy and the Madam together again, and brought
    the storyline full circle after two and a half years.

    One of the most interesing long-term A&A story arcs involved the kindly
    self-made millionaire Roland Weber, "one of the richest colored men in
    America." His search for Amos -- the son of the man who had saved his
    life in a mining accident decades before -- led to his first on-mike
    appearance in February 1934, sparking a long and convoluted storyline
    that would run into the summer of 1935. Major events would include:
    Weber's marriage to a woman Andy had coveted; Weber's friendly takeover
    of the Fresh Air Garage; Weber's death in a pedestrian accident and his
    bequest to Amos of 500 acres of land in upstate New York for a housing
    development to be known as Weber City, the construction, operation, and
    ultimate sale of that development, the gradual unraveling of the mental
    stability of Weber's widow, her mounting obsession with Amos, her
    accidential suicide -- and Amos's arrest for her "murder."

    Correll and Gosden didn't come up with this complex storytelling
    technique on their own -- they were directly inspired by the continuity
    newspaper comic strips of the 1920s, most specifically Sidney Smith's
    long and convoluted method of story construction on "The Gumps." But they
    *were* the first performers to transfer this technique to broadcasting,
    and it's interesting how closely their methods are followed to this day
    in modern broadcast serials -- the average daytime soap opera builds its
    storylines exactly the way Correll and Gosden did seventy-five years ago.

    Elizabeth

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 20:39:47 -0500
    From: "Harry" <hb1379@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Grover's Mill Monument

    Dennis Crowe wrote:

>     I have never visited the statue but a friend of mine sent pictures. I
>     can't read the inscription. Perhaps if Derek Tague visits the area, as
>     he has indicated he will, he can send me the wording.

    I am afraid I cannot tell you what the inscription is, but all the
    readers can see it at this web site:
    [removed]~wendigo/photo/20010826_grovers_mill/

    Harry Button
    hb1379@[removed]

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 20:56:40 -0500
    From: RadioCM25@[removed]
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Haearing he original OTRs

    Tom Barnett, don't give a 2nd thought about being too young to have heard OTR
    when it was current.  I'm 77, liived in the golden  days of radio, was a
    great fan  of [removed],  with 4 major metworks amd plenty of independents,
    there was no way amy of us heard all of it.  So now we can  enjoy hearing it
    together.
    Chick Meyerson

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 21:24:55 -0500
    From: "Martin Grams, Jr." <mmargrajr@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Tom Corbett, Space Cadet

    Someone posted on the Digest:
    I think you're referring to "Space Patrol."  "Tom Corbett, Space Cadet" was
    another show entirely, and it always gave episode [removed]

    Yes, it did - but I was referring to TOM CORBETT as an example of how people
    have in the past (and still continue) to list duplicate episodes under
    different titles without bothering to listen to the episodes to starighten
    out the mess of offering four copies of the same recording.  I was correct
    in stating TOM CORBETT, SPACE CADET as an example.  Enclosed is a reprint
    from Gordon Payton's catalog, page 205:

    TOM CORBETT, SPACE CADET
    Broadcast from 1/1/52 to 6/26/52, this was probably the least fantastical of
    all the 1950s juvenile space adventure series (although, the most
    technically accurate).  Most stories are your basic "space western" or
    "cops-and-robbers" type story, with no mastermind/mad scientist story lines.
      Like Space Patrol, it also had a sister series on television which started
    a few years before.  Two shows, forming one complete story were aired each
    week.

    Dates and titles for shows before 2/26/52 were pretty screwed up and I
    recently completed an exhaustive examination of this series.  Due to a few
    key earlier episodes are mostly "wrong."  I will stake my reputation on the
    accuracy of the listing below.  The problems that caused this show to have
    been poorly documented early on are these: "all" of the shows broadcast were
    two-part stories; the title of the next episode/story line is given at the
    end of each episode; the title of the episode is "not" given at the
    beginning of the show - the only way to know an episode title is to have the
    previous episode; two completely different episodes/story lines say that
    "Space Station to Danger" is next; quite a few episodes mention vanadium
    smuggling and going to trial for something; "Doomed Cargo" part two was not
    available until recently (this was the key show that straightened out the
    broadcast order.)  I listened to all 12 existing episodes that are disputed
    and wrote down the opening sentence and what show was slated for the next
    airing.  Frankly, after doing so, I can't believe that someone hadn't done
    the same thing years ago and straightened out the mess the dating and
    titling were.

    Superb example: A fellow Digester sent me a list of episodes on his TOM
    CORBETT mp3 shortly after I posted an episode guide about the series on the
    Digest last month.  His mp3 listing featured the following episodes without
    airdates.

    Living Crystals of Titan
    Stealing Crystals
    Guess what?  These two episodes is "Crystal Smugglers" from 1/3/52.

    Shipwrecked
    Freighter Sabotaged
    Search for Captain Parker
    Missing Spaceships
    Guess what?  These four episodes is "Rocket Into Danger" from 1/10/52.

    That means the collector had five copies of "Rocket Into Danger," one dated
    with the accurate title and four undated with alternate (ficticious) titles.
      And that was just the 1/10/52 broadcast!  The collector's mp3 list
    included 83 titles and since only 52 episodes were recorded and broadcast -
    that means he has 31 duplicate recordings on the same disc!  This is what I
    meant by mp3 discs having duplicate recordings under ficticious titles.

    On the plus side a friend of mine, Ed, a member of the Solar Guard Academy,
    gave me a Tom Corbett mp3 at the Williamsburg Film Festival, having seen my
    posting on the Digest listing titles and airdates of the Tom Corbett series.
      When I was on the phone with Gordon, he helped me play the mp3 disc and
    right there over the phone we verified the disc's contents one by one.  Two
    entries had titles and dates that were always on the "lost" episodes list.
    Guess what?  After hearing the closing of the 6/17/52 listing, I can confirm
    that the two episodes that were once considered "lost" now exist!  6/17/52
    and 6/19/52 "Pursuit of Danger" parts one and two are no longer obsolete.
    Gordon has the disc now (I mailed it to him the other day) so he'll finish
    with the disc and verify if any other recordings on the disc were formerly
    "lost".

    For other examples, check out the INNER SANCTUM log on Lou Genco's web-site
    - it features a list of fictitious titles to recordings circulating on mp3
    discs that are really duplicates or recordings that are not even INNER
    SANCTUM broadcasts.  Again I state, hopefully someone will start deleting
    the duplicates.  If I was to go out and buy a TOM CORBETT mp3 disc, I'd
    rather buy one that has 40+ episodes (or God willing all 52 episodes) rather
    than a disc that has 83.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 21:44:31 -0500
    From: Twizoner@[removed]
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Grover's Mill & WOTW
    X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative
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    I had the pleasure of attending the 50th anniversary recreation of the WOTW
    radio play at Princeton University's McCarter Theater back in 1988.  This
    was, I believe, my first OTR recreation which is fitting since the WOTW was
    one of the very first OTR shows I ever heard.  I've seen many since at the
    FOTR conventions.  Howard Koch was in attendance that evening.  I picked up
    the commemorative poster earlier in the day at the Martian festival.  I don't
    recall seeing much news about the 60th anniversary celebration. Has anyone
    read the book "The Invasion From Mars" available at the Mercer County Chamber
    of Commerce website ([removed]) and if so would you
    recommend it?

    Mike Kerrigan

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    ------------------------------

    Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 21:45:43 -0500
    From: "Martin Grams, Jr." <mmargrajr@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Gordon Payton

    Gordon Payton recently moved to a new house so the info I posted is up to
    date.  A lot of people have been e-mailing and calling me the past month
    about Gordon (Osborne, Judge, Dimples) - so I'll make a short story sweet
    for all who have contacted me - Gordon's web-site is down now.  A sci-fi
    writer (ahem* Ellison *ahem) threatened Gordon because Gordon listed titles
    and airdates of shows they wrote, so Gordon had to take the whole site down
    to keep them away.  Gordon has no access to e-mails anymore and doesn't want
    to deal with the internet.  If you need to contact him, his info is
    reprinted below.  Gordon's opinion is that everytime he gets a new show
    (like his recent prize, the German version of Lord of the Rings) and starts
    mailing a copy or two to collectors, and it appears on the web for free
    downloads within a couple days and he feels his sales are hurting as result.
      Whether going off the web for a while to help reimburse the money he tied
    up in his collection will help or not, is his cup of tea.  I can say that I
    have personally seen Gordon pay a man $100 in cash (no joke) for a thirty
    minute recording of an obscure sci-fi show from the 1960s so it's only right
    that he do what he can to make his money back.
    Gordon Payton at his new address: 118 E. Palmer Ave., Collingswood, NJ
    08108.  Gordon's new phone number is 1-856-858-4401.
    The Sci-Fi Guy said it was okay to let people know this since he's no longer
    on the web - so his faithful friends can drop him a line and let them know
    what's up.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 10:14:01 -0500
    From: lynn wagar <philcolynn@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Otr Named Places

    Here in Minnesota we have 10,000 plus [removed]
    Two are named Lake Burns after George Burns and
    Lake Allen after Gracie Allen.  Interesting tid bit?

    Lynn Wagar

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 10:23:28 -0500
    From: "Don Frey" <alanladdsr@[removed];
    To: "otr message" <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Johnson Family, Gildersleeve, Shirley Temple
     and Hitler

    With the informative Amos and Andy discussion, I mention Jimmy Scribner and
    the Johnson Family (less popular and more blatently racist IMHO) and wonder
    if anyone knows anything about the series history, Scribner, and any
    anecdotes, opinions, etc.

    Planting laughers in the radio audiences: I am a Gildersleeve buff and
    listen often as
    my "cocktail after a hard day." During a season late in the forties, there
    is one guy who clearly stands out with an annoying laugh, to me, which
    always comes just as the general
    laughter is dying down. He is in show after show.

    Ron, can you check this out: I understand Shirley Temple and Adolph Hitler
    have the same birthday. Urban legend perhaps? I use it to point out the
    quackery of astrology
    but maybe I am the fool.

    Finally, GO KANSAS JAYHAWKS! Don't panic Charlie,. that IS an obscure local
    radio show here in Lawrence, Kansas about bird [removed]

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 10:13:43 -0500
    From: "Andolina, Joe" <Joe_Andolina@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  WARMING UP THE AUDIENCE

    I was listening to a Abbott & Costello show the other day, and right before
    the usual audience laughs that the show seemed to always open up with, I
    heard a voice which sounded like Bud Abbott say; "Don't forget, hearty
    laughs." Then the audience broke out with up-roarious laughter as the
    opening theme music started. Before I ever heard something like that, I was
    always under the impression that the audience was laughing at some behind
    the scenes antics from Abbott & Costello right b4 the show started.

    Joe

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 10:23:35 -0500
    From: HERITAGE4@[removed]
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  OLDE TYME RADIO NETWORK Schedule for week
     beginning  03/30/03

    Here's what's on this week - 24/7 at  the OTRN website:
    [removed]

    SAME TIME, SAME STATION with Jerry Haendiges
    1. YOUNG LOVE  - 7/18/49  "Engagement Ceremony"  with Jimmy
    Lydon, Janet Waldo, John Houston, and Jerry Hausner.
    2. THE MELODY HOUR - 6/10/46 Starring Buddy Clark and Percy
    Faith & his Orch.   Guest: Joe Reichman.
    3. THE ADVENTURES of CHARLIE LUNG   - 5/29/48  - "The Midnight Rendezvous"  -
    All parts portrayed by Charlie Lung - "The Man of 100 Voices"
    4. MR. & MRS. NORTH -  "House of Hate"   stars: Richard Denning
    and Barbara Britton.

    THE HERITAGE RADIO THEATRE with Tom Heathwood
    1. FIBBER McGEE & MOLLY     NBC  1/7/47  - Criminals invade
    Wistful Vista.   Jim and Marian Jordan.
    2. THE SHADOW    MBS   1/9/39  "The League of Terror"  starring
    Orson Welles and Agnes Moorehead.
    3. THE COLGATE SPORTS NEWSREEL with BILL STERN    NBC
    #477 - 12/17/48.    Guest: Marie McDonald

    Hope you enjoy!      Tom & Jerry

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 10:23:50 -0500
    From: Herb Harrison <herbop@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Story arcs in radio & modern TV

    It's just my guess, but I think the broadcast networks are using multi-part
    shows to hold their audience from week to week, to stem the loss of viewers
    to cable shows.
    Note that Rick Keating's six examples include five broadcast shows.
    As for [removed] If it happened, were story arcs used at the end of the OTR
    age to hold onto radio "listeners" who were transitioning to TV as "viewers"?

    Herb Harrison

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 10:24:11 -0500
    From: StevenL751@[removed]
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Re: Daily News Covers the Gotham Radio
     Players!
    X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative
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    In a message dated 3/29/2003 5:59:25 PM Eastern Standard Time,
    [removed]@[removed] writes:

>     I suppose it's accurate to call Light's Out Arch Oboler's series, but I'm
>     fairly certain Steve told me he didn't write the episode that is being
>     performed tomorrow night, by the way.

    That is correct, Oboler did not write tonight's episode, which is "The Legion
    of The Dead", from 11/9/38.  It was written by Ken Robinson.  I've not been
    able to find out very much about Mr. Robinson, just that he also scripted the
    soap "Dan Harding's Wife" in the late 1930's, so if anyone on the digest
    knows anything more about him, please speak up.

    As far as calling LIGHTS OUT Arch Oboler's series, Oboler did write and
    produce the show for two periods in it's history, but the series was actually
    created and originally scripted by Wyllis Cooper, who then went on to create
    QUIET, PLEASE.

    Here's the chronology:

    1/34-4/35 - local Chicago show, created and written by Wyllis Cooper
    4/35-5/36 - nationally broadcast from Chicago, writer/producer Wyllis Cooper
    5/36-7/38 - from Chicago, writer/producer Arch Oboler
    7/38-8/39 - from Chicago, producer Gordon G. Hughes, various writers
    1939-1941 - (off the air)
    10/42-9/43 - Writer/Producer Arch Oboler, from Hollywood and NY
    Summers 1945, 1946, 1947 - New productions of previously produced scripts by
        Cooper and others
    1949-1952 - TV version airs on NBC
    1970-1973 - Rebroadcasts of 1942-1943 shows under title "Devil and Mr. O"

    Steve Lewis
    director, Gotham Radio Players

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    ------------------------------

    Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 13:53:40 -0500
    From: Larry Gassman <lgsinger@[removed];
    To: OTR Digest <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Grover's Mill

    Hi,
    I am sure that many others visited during the convention of 1988.  I
    remember Jerry and Barbara Williams and John and I decided long before went
    to Newark, that we would visit.  We met several of the officials who
    planned the 50th anniversary and took lots of pictures and did many
    interviews which later were heard on several of the radio shows we were
    doing at the time.
    Having been to our nations capital, to Vietnam, Berlin Germany, Iam always
    excited to be where history has been made.  My feelings were the same that
    day in October of 1988 when we went to Grover's Mill.

    --------------------------------
    End of [removed] Digest V2003 Issue #133
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