Subject: [removed] Digest V2002 #487
From: "OldRadio Mailing Lists" <[removed]@[removed];
Date: 12/14/2002 7:29 PM

To: <[removed]@[removed];

    ------------------------------

                                The Old-Time Radio Digest!
                                  Volume 2002 : Issue 487
                             A Part of the [removed]!
                                     ISSN: 1533-9289

                                     Today's Topics:

      5-disc Mp3 changer                    [ Richard Carpenter <sinatra@ragingbu ]
      ITTA thoughts?                        [ bloodbleeds@[removed] ]
      Vic and Sade                          [ "bkidera" <rkidera1@[removed] ]
      Frank Behrens                         [ "John Nelson" <seerman@[removed] ]
      Dragnet "the big"                     [ Ronald Staley <mrvintageradio@earth ]
      A Dragnet Xmas                        [ wich2@[removed] ]
      Re: audio from movies                 [ Ga6string@[removed] ]
      Re: Vic & Sade                        [ "Rodney w bowcock jr." <rodney-self ]
      Re: The Decline and Fall of Vic and   [ Elizabeth McLeod <lizmcl@[removed] ]
      divans                                [ "Philip Adams" <padams33@[removed]; ]
      specific info on Morning Edition dra  [ "B. J. Watkins" <kinseyfan@hotmail. ]
      Re: Mp3 playing problem               [ gad4@[removed] ]

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2002 14:51:47 -0500
    From: Richard Carpenter <sinatra@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  5-disc Mp3 changer

      Since I've been very good this year (well, sort of),
    I bought myself a Christmas present: a 5-disc CD and
    MP3 changer, RCA model RP8078, for just under $100 at
    Best Buy. Being a kid of 62, I couldn't wait for
    Christmas and tried it out today while no one else was
    home except the cats, who can keep secrets pretty
    well. I plugged in the changer, attached it to my Aiwa
    stereo, put in five OTR discs, set the controls to
    "Shuffle All Discs" and gave it a try.
      After playing a Gildersleeve show flawlessly, the
    changer moved on to a Gunsmoke disc and played the
    part I listened to perfectly as well. The instructions
    don't recommend shuffling discs when playing MP3s
    because time is consumed while the machine "reads" the
    next disc. But I think that's important only for music
    files, not OTR ones, and in any event Gunsmoke started
    playing just 15 seconds after Gildy. (The instructions
    also say that when on shuffle no file will be repeated
    until all are played. But whether this will happen
    after the machine is turned off, then turned on later,
    I don't yet know.)
      At that point, I put everything back into the box
    until after Christmas. So although this wasn't a
    thorough test -- and with MP3s, thorough tests are
    necessary -- I am encouraged. Just think: If this
    machine fulfills its early promise, I can have an
    evening's entertainment featuring five different OTR
    shows without getting up to change discs. I just may
    have bought myself a splendid Christmas gift!

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2002 15:05:39 -0500
    From: bloodbleeds@[removed]
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  ITTA thoughts?

    To reads of It's That Time Again! The New Stories of Old-Time Radio: I've been getting
    feedback about my new book, but mainly from the writers and mainly on the look of the
    book rather than content (there are exceptions). I'd love to hear from any readers, either
    on list or off, about ITTA: likes, dislikes, what you'd like to see in another volume, etc.
    Only with reader feedback can I improve the series, which I hope will continue.

    Thanks.

    Ben

    It's That Time Again!
    [removed]

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2002 20:54:23 -0500
    From: "bkidera" <rkidera1@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Vic and Sade

    At least one of the cast members of Vic and Sade went on to other things-
    namely Billy Idelson (Rush).  You might remember him as Herman Glimpshire,
    Sally's nerdy boyfriend on the Dick Van Dyke show in the 1960s. I believe he
    has also done some tv work as a producer or director, and is still alive as
    far as I know.  I believe Art Van Harvey (sp?) died not long after the
    show's demise.  He had a heart condition, I believe. Don't know about Sade
    and Uncle Fletcher, maybe others can enlighten you.

    I agree with you, the show was one of OTRs greatest, but I think it's like
    Bob and Ray - You either get it, or you don't.

    Bob Kidera

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2002 20:54:35 -0500
    From: "John Nelson" <seerman@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Frank Behrens
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        In regards to Frank Behrens, you should contact his widow, who as you
    pointed out is the actress Amzie Strickland.  Now 83, she still lives and
    works in the Los Angeles area.    John

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    Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2002 20:56:36 -0500
    From: Ronald Staley <mrvintageradio@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Dragnet "the big"

    Jack Webb, though a most wonderful and accomplished producer, actor,
    announcer etc. lacked sentimentality in every way.

    Jack liked jazz, so, he was a natural on Pete Kelley's Blues.

    He was Dragnet, but when it came to titling his shows, he could care less
    about titles, preferring to concentrate heavily on plot theme, and of
    course, he was a most ardent stickler on genuine original sounds.  Bud
    Toliffson would be roused from bed to go to Union Station to record the
    original Lark, Starlight, Daylight, or whatever.

    Webb's fight scenes were elaborate, but again he just could not title
    anything. He saved string, and, in the very end destroyed string by the
    yard, breaking discs, some scripts and even some valuable glasswork,
    because he didn't need it.

    The Big thing arose from his secretaries and himself not coming to an
    agreement on titles to episodes.

    The greatest title was "The Big Almost No Show" referring tot he only time
    in history of Dragnet that the partner ever narrated a segment. When Joe
    friday was shot in the head by a thug, it was up to Ben Romero to carry the
    day.

    The "Big September Man," seems not to be an obvious title, until you learn
    near the end of the show that the pseudo-religious fanatic who killed a
    young woman with a piece of pipe, actually committed this and other
    attrocities in September, hence the title.

    More obvious titles stand--The Big call, which goes through the painstaking
    process of chroniclinga criminal's activities through a bug planted in his
    office. Combined with that is the fact that he cannot reach his wife to
    tell her he was arrested--she was talking on the phone.

    The Big Little Jesus, (not the original christmas story) implies its name
    to a t. Jesus was big--religious wise--but the Christ child was little
    enough to sit in a manger scene.

    I must say, Jack was a serious man when it came to "Big Little Jesus,"
    playing his best on this particular story.

    Harry Bartell, "Father Rojas" could not have sounded better.

    The show still brings tears to me eyes when I hear it, and the tv show just
    couldn't hold a candle to the original 1953 broadcast of The Big Little Jesus.

    Jack's scripts mostly survive at UCLA, and I was fortunately to go through
    a number of them when the boxes first arrived.

    The one thing I loved--a bound very thick set of "Pete Kelley's
    Blues--1951" all together in a book thick enough to cause grievous injury
    should one be struck by the tome.

    I must say in closing that Jack did take pride in at least binding those
    shows he thought critical in his career.

    His death at 64 happened too soon.

    Ronald Staley

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2002 20:58:26 -0500
    From: wich2@[removed]
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  A Dragnet Xmas

>     From: wilditralian@[removed]

     Subject:  DRAGNET: BIG LITTLE JESUS<

    Dear Jim, & [removed]

>     Are you aware that there was a Dragnet television program with a similar
>     title that was done twice?

    I'd imagine our regular expert M. Hayde will weigh in here, but I believe the
    only two SEPARATE productions (barring reruns) were the ONE from the 50's,
    and one from the '60 revival.

>     It was entitled "The Big Baby Jesus", and was run as a Christmas show each
>     time.  I don't know if it was the same plotline as the radio broadcast or
>     not.

    As mentioned earlier, it is indeed; of necessity, as the radio show is
    largely cribbed from the tv soundtrack.

>     I discussed this via e-mail with Harry Bartell several years ago, as he
>     played the part of the priest.

    And a terrific job he did, in all "three" versions, I [removed]

>     The first was done in the early 50's and was in black-and-white. The second
>     would have been at least done in the fall of 1956, because one of the police
>     cars was a 1957 Ford.  This one was in color.

    I'm almost sure that the SINGLE '50's version is the color one, though it may
    have been rerun in b&w - and, of course, largely RECEIVED in b&w. I have a
    decent vhs copy, from Shokus Video; alas, neither Stuart Shostak there, nor
    anyone else, seems to know of a surviving color print. A shame, as the
    candle-filled scenes in the historic Roman Catholic church look beautifully
    designed for chroma.
    At any rate, both this (I am not really familiar with the 60's remake), and
    the two radio shows (the other being THE BIG TWENTY-TWO RIFLE) make wonderful
    holiday entertainment - containing a real core of the true meaning of the
    season, that wouldn't necessarily be expected from Tough Guy Webb.
    Merry Christmas,
    Craig Wichman
    (who's done his turn "Bah, Humbug-ing" himself, with-)
    QUICKSILVER RADIO THEATER

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2002 20:58:54 -0500
    From: Ga6string@[removed]
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Re: audio from movies
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    In a message dated 12/12/2002 11:21:38 PM Eastern Standard Time, Stephen A.
    Kallis, Jr. writes:

>     Every so often, someone comments that the sound tracks of many films are a
>     fair substitute for OTR in that a listener can get the story from just
>     listening to dialects and sounds. This may not be the case, though.

    As one of those who mentioned audio from movies, I'd like to add that I
    didn't mean to imply that this was "a fair substitute for OTR." In fact,
    there's no comparison -- a radio program IS complete, as Stephen says, while
    listening only to the audio from a film almost certainly requires that the
    listener have some familiarity with the film to really enjoy it. Still, I DO
    enjoy listening to audio from some of my favorite old movies. For me, this is
    a reflection of how enjoyable and convenient the audio format can be --
    whether via disc or cassette, you can listen to a program or movie almost
    ANYWHERE.

    I do also believe, in comparison to the films that Stephen mentions, that
    many of the "old-time" classic films work pretty well as audio for a couple
    of reasons: First, IMHO, the film industry of the 1930s/40s wasn't far
    removed from the theater, and many of the great films of the era were derived
    from that milieu. Think of many of the great films of that era, and you'll
    realize that they're simply plays -- modified for film, yes, but nonetheless
    dialogue-driven. There simply wasn't the same reliance on special effects in
    those days, or the dependence on action scenes, as you see in many modern
    films. Another point: Plenty of old films include first-person narration,
    which may be considered a dramatic weakness in modern times (maybe even in
    past times, too), but it makes for enjoyable audio because it provides
    clarity and continuity to the listening experience.

    I don't suggest that audio from films (or TV) is comparable to OTR, merely
    that I enjoy it, and will continue to!

    Sincerely,
    Bryan Powell

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    Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2002 20:59:10 -0500
    From: "Rodney w bowcock jr." <rodney-selfhelpbikeco@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Re: Vic & Sade

    I too echo the call for some discussion about Vic & Sade, which is
    arguably my favorite radio comedy program.

    The 30 minute episodes are good, if you've never heard the 15 minute
    shows.  While there are some bright spots and funny things in the 30
    minute episodes, they do pale in comparison to the older episodes.
    Perhaps Rhymer was simply out of his element.  Perhaps the demands of a
    sponsor made the show less free-wheeling.  There's no real way to know.

    I do feel that the Radio Spirits set isn't nearly as good as it could be.
     Too much time is given to the CBS episodes where additional cast members
    were always coming in and out of scenes.  One such character is Orville
    Wheenie (or 'ey'?) who was simply annoying, perhaps because he took so
    much time away from the lovely conversations of Vic, Sade, Rush and Uncle
    Fletcher.

    While I don't know what became of Art Van Harvey (Vic) or Bernadine Flynn
    (Sade), Clarence Hartzell played a character very similar to Uncle
    Fletcher on later episodes of Lum & Abner (around 1947 on?), and Bill
    Idleson (Rush) went on to be a popular writer, director and actor.  I've
    heard several 1950's episodes of Suspense that he wrote, and a few years
    ago, he guest starred on an episode of Will & Grace.  Fortunatly, Mr.
    Idleson is still with us, and I'd love to sit down and listen to him talk
    about what it was like to work on such an amazing show.

    Rodney Bowcock
    Past Tense Productions
    "Classic movies and TV for $7"

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2002 21:01:41 -0500
    From: Elizabeth McLeod <lizmcl@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Re: The Decline and Fall of Vic and Sade

    On 12/14/02 2:53 PM OldRadio Mailing Lists wrote:

>     I feel odd writing such a melancholy note about such a funny program but
>     I wonder if anyone out there can explain the odd demise of "Vic and Sade."
>     Why wasn't such a successful show given a better chance to reestablish
>     itself
>     in a new format?

    I think there's probably a lot of truth to the story that Paul Rhymer was
    simply burned out after fourteen years of writing the program alone. But
    I also think that "Vic and Sade" simply didn't fit into the notion of
    what was both funny and salable in the postwar era.

    If you look at the way radio humor evolved over its lifetime, there were
    several stages. The first great creator/writers were performers who
    *didn't* have any meaningful background in  vaudeville or any other more
    established area of show business -- Correll and Gosden, Lauck and Goff,
    Goodman Ace, Bradford Browne, Raymond Knight, Stoopnagle and Budd, Don
    Quinn and the Jordans, and others of this sort. Because these performers
    were for the most part not vaudevillians (and, notably, those who were
    were not *successful* vaudevillians) they felt no debt to vaudeville
    styles -- these performers wrote in a very intimate, non-bombastic
    manner, focusing their humor around characterization and situation -- and
    occasionaly satire --  rather than a constant barrage of jokes, gags, and
    funny lines. Although Paul Rhymer did not begin "Vic and Sade" until
    1932, he was far more a part of this first generation in his approach
    than the era which developed after 1932.

    1932 was the year that the big-name vaudevillians and Broaway comedians
    changed the direction of radio comedy -- moving away from the quiet
    approach of the "first generation" of writers and more toward the
    joke-and-gag oriented humor of the stage. These comics brought staffs of
    writers with them who had established themselves in stage comedy, not in
    radio writing -- and the approach was entirely different. Although a few
    stage-trained performers, like Jack Benny, made an effort to adapt to
    radio's more intimate approach, most of these comics did not: indeed,
    they forced radio to adapt to them -- this meant loud, obnoxious live
    studio audiences, increasingly flamboyant program formats, and all the
    trimmings of a "big time show." This was the antithesis in every way of
    the intimate pre-1932 radio tradition that produced Paul Rhymer.

    The "old school" and the "new school" coexisted for quite a while, but
    the big money sponsors preferred the "belly laugh" type of comedian to
    the "quiet chuckle" types of shows -- and gradually the audiences came to
    agree. By the 1940s, the general rule in radio comedy was the louder and
    brasher the better. "Vic and Sade" lasted as long as it did, I think,
    because it spent most of its run in a daytime format, away from the
    competition of the big-time comedians. Rather than be forced to be
    something it could never be, it could simply poke along at its own pace
    in its quiet little corner of the daytime schedule -- even as the 15
    minute creator-owned nighttime comedy serials gradually died off. But
    finally, even the daytime became rigid and compartmentalized: comedy
    programs were for nighttime, and daytime programs were weepy dramas,
    because "that's what women want to hear."

    Turning "Vic and Sade" into a nighttime, half-hour program was something
    that could never work in the long term. It was an interesting idea for a
    summer replacement program -- which is what the half-hour V&S was -- but
    it could never have lasted in the radio environment of the postwar era,
    when humorless little grey men sat in agency offices analyzing
    laughs-per-minute and calculating cost-per-ratings-point. Rhymer had
    never had to answer to these sorts of people during his prime years, but
    they were the people calling the shots in late 1940s network radio --
    there's a reason why most postwar radio comedy has a sense of deja vu
    about it: the same jokes over and over again about the same overworked
    subjects, all cranked out by an army of guys named Snag or Zeno. The
    process of creating radio comedy had become so mechanized, and so
    influenced by agency bean-counters, that a free-thinker like Rhymer
    couldn't have survived.

    Elizabeth

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2002 21:01:56 -0500
    From: "Philip Adams" <padams33@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  divans
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    While I'm not sure how this thread got started I can tell you that the word
    divan comes to us from Russia. It is the Russian word for couch (although I
    was not aware that they did not have backs or arms). So, obviously like so
    many other words in the English languages immigrants simply brought it over
    with them and it stuck.

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    Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2002 21:02:33 -0500
    From: "B. J. Watkins" <kinseyfan@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  specific info on Morning Edition drama

    Below is more specific information on when to hear the new radio drama on
    NPR's Morning Edition. The "40 minutes into the first hour" will apply to
    whichever NPR station you listen to.

    Barbara

    LA THEATRE WORKS ON NPR'S MORNING EDITION!

    LA THEATRE WORKS is featured the week of Monday December 16th on NPR's
    Morning Edition!  Every morning you can hear a specifically created
    miniseries:  "I'd Rather Eat Pants" written by Peter Ackerman and starring
    Ed Asner, Anne Meara, Ed Begley Jr., Jonathan Banks, Emily Bergl, Dan
    Castellaneta, Derek Cecil, Clea Lewis, Kendall Schmidt, Susan Stamberg and
    Bob Edwards.

    Listen to this series everyday next week (Monday through Friday) on NPR's
    Morning Edition at 40 min. into the first hour.  Tune in at either 6:40am or
    8:40am on KPCC [removed] in Los Angeles to listen!  The play is written in five
    acts and each daily segment is eight minutes
    long.

    Tune In and AND PLEASE LET NPR KNOW HOW MUCH YOU LOVED IT!  We would
    love your support!  You can email NPR at morning@[removed]

    To learn more about it go to [removed] and click on "I'd Rather Eat Pants"

    We would love to hear your thoughts on the show as well. Send us your
    feedback also at latw@[removed].

    Thank You and Enjoy!
    Susan Albert Loewenberg & STAFF.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2002 21:05:06 -0500
    From: gad4@[removed]
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Re: Mp3 playing problem

> >     I bought 2 MP3 CD's at the October FOTR convention and 1 from REPS. I am
> >     having a problem playing them on my GPX boombox CD MP3 player. A 30 minute
> >     program plays for about 15 minutes and then goes to the next track. Can
> >     anyone tell me why this happens and how I can correct it.

>     George, this is probably caused by the MP3 disc being encoded at a rate
>     that your player will not handle. If you have the software, try re-sampling
>     the MP3 to a rate of 128[removed] That should work.

    My thoughts on this is a little different than Fred's.

    Since it played 15 minutes of the show before skipping to the next track,
    that implies to me that the player can play that bitrate. I remember I used
    to have a phillips expanium mp3 player. While it was great for songs, long
    mp3s (such as otr) had experienced this problem. If it's a similar
    situation, I dont think a higher bitrate would solve anything.

    The first thing I would do is try putting the cd in the computer and see if
    the files are ok and not damaged.  Assuming that the disks are fine, what I
    would do is buy a different unit. I know the rio volt is great but has no
    built in speakers. Perhaps someone in the digest can recommend  a boombox
    that they've had great success with.

    My personal thoughts is that machines are cheap.  As a collector, you're
    probably going to be getting lots more mp3 cds. Spending the time
    resamplling doesnt appear to be a practical option but rather having a
    player that will work well for you and last you a while.

    Maybe Im wrong, but thats just my two cents. :)

    Sincerely,
    George

    --------------------------------
    End of [removed] Digest V2002 Issue #487
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