Subject: [removed] Digest V2003 #159
From: "OldRadio Mailing Lists" <[removed]@[removed];
Date: 4/16/2003 1:06 PM
To: <[removed]@[removed];

------------------------------


                            The Old-Time Radio Digest!
                              Volume 2003 : Issue 159
                         A Part of the [removed]!
                                 ISSN: 1533-9289


                                 Today's Topics:

  My First OTR Convention               [ Christopher Werner <werner1@globalc ]
  Mp3 Vs Cassettes                      [ Jimmyfuturity@[removed] ]
  MP3, cassettes, hobbies and markets   [ Ga6string@[removed] ]
  Cincy's wrong week                    [ Dan Hughes <danhughes@[removed]; ]
  OTR References                        [ Kenneth Clarke <kclarke5@[removed]; ]
  Victor Perrin                         [ "Martin Grams, Jr." <mmargrajr@hotm ]
  Re: MP3 Size vs. Quality              [ Shenbarger@[removed] ]

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 11:05:04 -0400
From: Christopher Werner <werner1@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  My First OTR Convention

(Sounds like one of those "My first day at school" essays, eh?)

I've been pondering attending an OTR convention for the 2-1/2 years I've
been on this list hearing all the wonderful tales of fun times and lasting
friendships. I'm from Michigan so Seattle and Los Angeles are a little
distant. Newark always comes at a busy time of the year and Cincinnati is
only a short flight (or 5 hour drive) away. As luck would have it, I have
been working in central Illinois for several months, so slipping away to
Cincinnati for a weekend was easier to convince my wife of than usual.

I arrived on Thursday night and met Bob Burchett and Robert Newman (think -
Santa). Robert and the crew had done such a good job of setting things up
that Bob could 'relax' and go out to eat with myself and the couple who run
"Great American Radio" in Genesee Michigan (2 hours from home). Being an
all Bob night, we went to Bob [removed] had a delightful time chatting about
the hobby and getting the scoop on the problems of earlier Cincinnati OTR
conventions. When we returned I remembered it was Thursday night and time
for the OTR chat (I'm usually flying home and miss them). I logged on and
then felt a sense of duty to round up the troops. I dashed downstairs
looking for Hal (who was worn out from the long drive) and Charlie Summers
(who had just arrived). I called Charlie on the house phone - "I'm just
getting set up now", he responded. Charlie and wife were happy to be out
together while their active daughter was home with relatives. He went out
to eat, the chat room was saddened.

I seem to occasionally be lucky in life, like staying loyal to my Apple
Macintosh until Microsoft introduced Windows 95 - then I switched. Lots of
stories of cramped performance and dealer rooms, hot muggy rooms with too
many people in previous years. The Best Western had nice large, well air
conditioned rooms. The rooms we used for the panel discussion and the
reenactments had plenty of chairs and room for more than came. The hotel
restaurant food was fairly good (some comments on salty eggs and thin
'Texas' french toast). The meal provided for the Saturday night dinner was
marvelous (brisket of beef with gravy, nice salad, mixed vegetables and
delicious cheesecake). I heard lots of folks say the coffee was great too.
Rooms were adequate, I missed my mini-fridge and microwave and the bathroom
was a little tight but comfortable just the same (I came to visit and not
sleep anyway). Made me glad I waited until *this year* to come.

I was concerned that many of the dealers would not show up based on who
came Thursday to set up. By Friday noon almost all of the tables were
filled with cassettes, CDs, videotapes, DVDs, posters, books, and other
elements of the OTR hobby and nostalgia. I was happy to finally meet Hal
Stone in person (we chatted often on Lois'  #oldradio irc channel on
Thursday nights from 7-11 EDT) and he is as nice in person as he is on the
ether. I also met my 'neighbor' from Howell, Terry Solomonson from who I
could procure some Phil Harris & Alice Faye CDs. I also met Ted Davenport
and Martin Grams, Jr. both of whom I had purchased things from before. From
Fred Berney and wife I got Lassie TV episodes and from ORCA I purchased
some audio Dr. Who episodes including one that was a "what if the Martians
really arrived before Orson Welles' War of the Worlds?". And so, after only
a few hours in the dealer room, I was broke.

I did buy a batch of raffle tickets (ok, 30 for $20 - what a deal) - and
that was a good thing as we'll see later.

Friday afternoon there was a panel discussion about OTR with a Canadian
slant. Carl Banas and Ken B??? (sorry) reminisced about their experiences
as broadcasters and announcers. They shared rare recordings of Mel Torme
speaking to Checkerboard Squares executives, Wayne and Shuster with Jack
Benny, the very first Canadian radio sportscast (hockey game naturally) and
had some audience volunteers become pretend announcers for a Lone Ranger
episode. Terry Solomonson's Boombox saved the day during part of the
presentation (little known to Terry, who was asleep so his sore throat
would heal) when we had technical difficulties.

Stuffed some of the raffle tickets in the box.

Friday evening I was getting hungry. I was told that some of the folks were
going to a local steakhouse for dinner. Sounds good, when do we leave? Oh,
not until *after* the reenactment - about 9:30 PM (insert stomach growl).

Stuffed some of the raffle tickets in the box.

The radio play was quite enjoyable. Rick Keating wrote a nice Johnny Dollar
script that everyone was quite excited about performing. But first the
Boogy Woogy Girls entertained the 'troops' with some Andrew Sisters
standards in Navy outfits. They did a great job putting everyone in a toe
tapping mood. Their accompaniest was not able to come but was 'present' on
CD. As Dan Hughs mentioned in his posting, the Johnny Dollar episode
included his daughter, Karen, along with Derek Tague both of which I knew
by name only. I wish I would have paid enough attention to the announcer to
realize 'who' was rendering the fine script. Sigh. getting too old. I did
enjoy them all, especially the smooth low timber of John Rayburn, the
familiar 'Commissoner Gordon' voice of Bob Hastings and the mellow voice of
Hal (who didn't squeak once all weekend).

Stuffed some of the raffle tickets in the box.

The dinner afterward at the Long Horn steakhouse was interesting for the
conversations and new friendships with Gary Yoggy and two wonderful members
of the MWOTRC (lauren?). Steak was good too, Gary Yoggy was able to have
his cake and eat it too that evening (thankful for doggy bags). There was
lots of laughter all evening for all who gathered.

Friday morning I woke up and checked the in-house TV channel for the
schedule of the days events. 9:00 Reenactment - better hurry down. Schedule
was wrong, wasn't until 1:30 in the afternoon. With time to kill, I helped
set up the display of Raffle items on one of the tables. Wandered the
dealer room, took pictures, chatted a while with Carl Banas and his wife.
Got directions to the Red Squirrel and went there for lunch (my favorite
Cincinnati multi-deck sandwich shop -THE BEST).

Stuffed some of the raffle tickets in the box.

Returned in time for the 1:30 show - The Boogy Woogy Girls were back,
dressed in army uniforms this time. What a great trio of voices. This time
they included the song "Deep in the Heart of Texas" with the characteristic
four-clap rhythm. They primed the audience and then let the CD of the
accompaniment run. Two times through, audience did well. Then their
accompaniest went wild with variations on the theme - and the audience
still did great. There was lots of talent in the room that afternoon.

John Rayburn surprised everyone with Leo Jordan who was interviewed and
responded to questions from the audience. What a treat! It was really
interesting to hear about the early life of the Jordans (even if I had read
part of Ben Omart's book). Now that I've visited Peoria, I'm anxious to
visit the new museum when it opens up.

John Rayburn also entertained us with a Spoonerism from Stoopnagle and Bud
(Sp?). Very Impressive!

Next up was Boston Blackie, one of my personal favorites. I was curious how
Hal Stone was going to play the Irish Policeman. He and the rest of the
gang did a good job finding the furs and catching the criminal. It was
interesting to watch the sound effects men as they enacted a fight scene
and did a lot of stair walking.

Stuffed some of the raffle tickets in the box.

Around 3:30 the last door prize was given out (all day Friday and Saturday
dinners were given out to lucky winners).

Stuffed the last of my raffle tickets in the box.

It was time for (Christmas) the raffle drawing. I sat down, this was going
to take a while, it looked like they added a lot more stuff to that table
full of goodies. Some folks said they missed 'George', apparently he kept
winning last year. This time the winnings were spread around rather nicely.
I was happy when another fellow Michigander bought one ticket and won a
nice book. I began winning too. First some CDs then a book or two, and then
that big set of Easy Aces I was eyeing in the Great American Radio display
-WOW. Buy lots of tickets ([removed] support the convention) and get lots of
stuff - what a concept. Several others seemed to have similar luck (Frank
and Gary among others). It's worth the trip just for the fun of seeing what
you can win in the raffle. I think I will bring some of my duplicate sets
of tapes if I return again - just to give someone else the joy of winning.

Everyone disappears to their room as the Dealer Room is converted into a
Dining Room. When I came back down I discovered I was no longer the
overdressed attendee. Friday and Saturday most folks were in T-Shirts and
Jeans. Of course at $[removed] a day what do you expect. Now the dinner is $30 -
suddenly Hal Stone owns a suit and tie- WOW! Others didn't have a tie
either so I was encouraged to just go on in. I got a nice seat where I
could videotape (by then I had over 5 hours of material taped). I expected
the Boogy Woogy girls to be in Air Force uniforms by now, but even they
were in black evening dresses. (Hey Bob - If you charge $45 does everyone
need to add sequins too?)

The Phillip Marlowe reenactment was *outstanding*! I laughed myself silly
(and ruined my taping). The fellow who played the bellhop and the monkey
used a high shrill voice. Bob Hastings played Phillip Marlowe in a very
laid-back manner. The bellhop started to ad lib his lines adding a
"Reeelaaax" Phillip in the middle of the dialog. I thought I'd fall on the
floor laughing. It was so spontaneous and smoothly executed. The banter
between the actors was executed very cleanly and the script had it's own
humorous moments as well. Very well done by all.

Bob Burchett closed the program of the evening with a series of awards for
various ones. Chuck Shadden from Chicago received two for his dedication to
the hobby, Don Ramlow received two for his directing talents. Jeff Yoggy
(who I met the night before) received one for his enthusiasm. And Bob
rammed one into his lip by accident and began bleeding. Seeking to help him
both Terry Solomonson and the blond soprano from the Boogy Woogy girls
offered him a napkin. First he took the napkin from Terry, then he saw the
blond and threw his back, taking hers. Even a bleeding host has to make a
choice. At one point Terry Solomonson (who presented the Parley Baer
awards) began a long introduction to someone who has done so much for the
hobby. Hal Stone began walking toward the stage as if the award was
destined for him. Not this [removed]

It was fun. It was memorable. I'm glad I took the time to videotape it (so
I can bore my wife ;-P  ) I'll come again if I can - and I hope this long
description convinces some of you to go to your first convention too.

Chris Werner
(sorry if I got the names wrong or misspelled)
Charlie is a balding 70 year old!

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 11:31:18 -0400
From: Jimmyfuturity@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Mp3 Vs Cassettes
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I would like to comment about the recent postings of Mp3 vs Cassettes.  I am
inclined to agree with the first gentleman that all too many collectors cram
too many programs in low encodes onto one disk, and as cheap as blank cds
are, this is terribly unnecessary.  I collect and thoroughly enjoy mp3 OTR
radio formats.  It is far easier than bulky reels and cassettes.  However,
although I collect what is available, sometimes I have the opportunity to
convert audio cassettes and standard audio disks into high encode Mp3, such
as the 160kbps.  I believe this is a happy compromise, because in high
encode, the audio quality is awfully good!  It also streamlines my
collection, reducing 20 standard audio disks or cassettes onto one cd yet
retain excellent audio quality.  If this was done at the outset of the Mp3
era, many fine shows would still have that fine audio.  Unfortunately, it
does no good reconverting 32 or (horrible!) 24kbps to 160kbps.  I have to
live with that encode unless I stumble onto a better encode or cassette which
I can personally convert.  Thanks for the opportunity to give my experience
here.  JIM Faulkner

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Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 11:58:20 -0400
From: Ga6string@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  MP3, cassettes, hobbies and markets
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Hi all,

Dan Hughes writes: "So, the audiophiles feel that MP3s are destroying the
hobby. As more and people settle for poor quality, those who spend hours and
hours perfecting just one half-hour show will no longer be able to afford to
do the work required to clean up the programs. There will no longer be an
appreciation (nor a market) for high-quality programs."

I've always had trouble with this argument, partly because "audiophiles" or
their equivalent have existed alongside low-tech types in other entertainment
genres and media since the dawn of technology. Why would the existence of
old-time radio MP3s eliminate the value of really good-sounding programs? It
may diminish the marketplace, but I think the appreciation for quality will
always exist, whether the product is a car, a piece of furniture, or a bottle
of wine.

In any case, if this OTR stuff truly is a HOBBY, versus a business, why does
a collector need to have a marketplace, a financial outlet or reward, in
order to invest time and money in the hobby that he or she loves? It's
fortunate that so many of these programs exist outside of copyright law, but
that doesn't mean that anyone is particularly entitled to build a viable
business on them. It wasn't that long ago that Carl Amari of Radio Spirits
was regularly vilified in this digest for being focused on money, to the
detriment of the hobby. (Yes, I know all the context and tactics that
contributed to those opinions -- let's not go there again.) Most hobbies, in
fact, do NOT result in financial reward. They are in fact a big hungry money
pit, causing wives to shake their heads at their husbands, or vice versa, for
filling the house with the trappings of whatever the hobbyists' obsession may
be, whether it's a bizarre assortment of ceramic frogs from all over the
world or that work-in-progress '39 Ford restoration in the garage. You do it
'cause you LOVE IT, because it does something good for your soul. Ask my wife
why I have every original Chuck Berry 45, or all 140+ Dave Brubeck
albums/CDs, or every single M*A*S*H episode on videotape (now collecting on
DVD, of course).

I've also invested a LOT of money in the OTR shows that I own. I purchased
many of them on audio cassette or CD from private collectors. (I should add
that I've acquired quite a few MP3 CDs. I use them to audition various
programs, particularly those I'm least familiar with. Then I buy the programs
I like best in a better sounding format. Audio cassette is still my favorite
format, but if MP3 was my favorite, I'd feel entitled to make that choice.)
I'm very grateful for the efforts of these private collectors/sellers, and
I've paid a fair price for their wares, but there is no guarantee of their
success or longevity as a business concern, just because they're sincere or
even passionate about what they do. That is the nature of a free market
economy. As a business concern, they have to demonstrate the unique ongoing
value of their product in the marketplace in order to succeed.

Don't get me wrong: I hope they DO succeed, because their passion is
indisputably good for the hobby in general. My point is that there will
always be a place for quality, although it may not seem that way in the short
term.

As for me, I don't expect to sell this collection in my lifetime, and if I
did (or if someone sells them after I'm gone), I wouldn't expect a
substantial financial return. I do get a tremendous amount of enjoyment from
them now, however, and that is its own reward, and an entirely apposite
outcome.

Sincerely,
Bryan Powell

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Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 12:13:14 -0400
From: Dan Hughes <danhughes@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Cincy's wrong week

George Wagner mentions that lack of attendance at Cincy last week was in
large part due to holding it a week earlier than usual.  BUT--had it been
held at its regular time--this coming weekend--it would have run over
Easter.  Bet attendance would have been even MORE dismal!  I haven't
checked a calendar, but I hope that since we're back on regular schedule
again starting next year, Easter isn't on the third weekend of April
again anytime [removed]

---Dan

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 14:12:25 -0400
From: Kenneth Clarke <kclarke5@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  OTR References

          Over the past few days, I've noticed a couple of OTR
references made on TV programs.  On M*A*S*H recently,
everyone was trying to lower Col. Potter's blood pressure.
Some of them did so by bringing him breakfast in bed.
His reply to these efforts was, "I'm starting to feel like a
"Don McNeill Breakfast Club"er.

          On "Without A Trace", one of the members of the search
team is named Samantha Spade.  When she told one of the
suspects what her name was, the suspect replied "You mean
like 'Sam Spade'?"

Kenneth Clarke

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 14:13:04 -0400
From: "Martin Grams, Jr." <mmargrajr@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Victor Perrin

Ryan Osentowski commented about Vic Perrin's voice on STAR TREK.

Perrin also lent his voice out a number of times for other programs (besides
the obvious "Control Voice" of THE OUTER LIMITS).  Perrin's voice can be
heard in car commercials during the 1950s and was one of two narrators
(can't recall if he was the first or second) for television's SGT. PRESTON
OF THE YUKON.

A lot of radio actors did television either by voice or stage - last week I
watched about half a dozen episodes of television's SPACE PATROL and watched
Larry Dobkin play a recurring role of a villionous android creator hell-bent
on universe conquest.  Dobkin played numerous roles on radio but even until
months before his recent death, Dobkin was still making appearances on
television.

One other radio actor I have seen quite a number of times on television is
Harry Bartell, who is on this Digest.  I've caught Mr. Bartell on a couple
HAVE GUN WILL TRAVEL episodes and even an obscure horror anthology entitled
THE VEIL in which Mr. Bartell acted with Boris Karloff.  FILMFAX magazine
featured an interview with Harry Bartell with lots of photos in one or two
of their issues about a year ago.  Anyone interested, backissues are
available from [removed].

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 14:13:11 -0400
From: Shenbarger@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Re: MP3 Size vs. Quality
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In a message dated 4/15/2003 6:32:46 PM Central Daylight Time,
[removed]@[removed] writes:

Seems to me there could be a compromise, because you CAN get excellent
quality with MP3.  The downside is that the file size is increased if you
go for high quality, so you can fit fewer programs on a CD.  This is an
excellent tradeoff.  Music MP3s run how long?--about 5 or 10 hours per
CD?  If OTR shows were handled likewise, you could get 10 to 20 shows on
a CD, which still beats the heck out of 2 shows per cassette.


There is no reason to convert OTR at the rate kids use for music MP3
recordings.

Much of my standard library is converted from cassette to MP3 using 96 kbps
and joint stereo. This is approximately equal to highest quality FM
broadcasting. Such quality is warranted only for original modern stereo
material such as BBC radio programs. Using this format, I get about 16 hours
of content on a CD.

For standard mono OTR content usually discussed in this mail list, stereo is
not necessary. Just on that note alone, the bit rate can be reduced without
reducing the overall audio quality of the recording. 64 kbps in mono mode
will provide the same FM quality sound and that is probably as good as one
will ever get with a direct from ET with best cleanup effort. Using this
mode, I get about 24 hours of programming on a CD and what I get is every bit
as good as the original cassette.

I recommend for all MP3 converting that a sample rate of 44,100 be used if
for no other reason than you may someday wish to put your MP3 recording on a
conventional audio CD. 44,100 is the sample rate used on audio CDs
everywhere. Converting from something usually makes a mess out of it. Also,
if you use less, you limit the frequency range to a dull sound.

Those times are for 650 MB CDs. Most today permit 700 MB and can hold a
little more programming.

Among the many OTR MP3 discs I have purchased, I have received only one set
of OTR done at 44,100/64 kbps mono and the quality is good, but not great.
There is no substitute for having the best source material available. But
even this good but not great set is probably superior to any 10th generation
reel to reel recording.

Buying OTR in MP3 format is a roll of the dice, but great fun in any case.
Rolling your own from your collection is a great way to archive the
recordings and eliminates wear and tear on tape and tape recorders. I have
piles of both around here and have found some of my ruined tapes to be
unavailable anywhere today.

Don Shenbarger

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End of [removed] Digest V2003 Issue #159
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