Subject: [removed] Digest V2009 #221
From: [removed]@[removed]
Date: 11/18/2009 10:18 PM
To: [removed]@[removed]
Reply-to:
[removed]@[removed]

------------------------------


                            The Old-Time Radio Digest!
                              Volume 2009 : Issue 221
                         A Part of the [removed]!
                             [removed]
                                 ISSN: 1533-9289


                                 Today's Topics:

  #OldRadio IRC Chat this Thursday Nig  [ charlie@[removed] ]
  11-17 births/deaths                   [ Ron Sayles <bogusotr@[removed]; ]
  Re; "War Of The Worlds" Version Two.  [ "Glenn P.," <C128User@[removed]; ]
  candy matson                          [ Grams46@[removed] ]
  War of the Wars of the Worlds         [ LBiel <[removed]@[removed]; ]
  11-18 births/deaths                   [ Ron Sayles <bogusotr@[removed]; ]

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 02:12:01 -0500
From: charlie@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  #OldRadio IRC Chat this Thursday Night!

A weekly [removed]

For the best in OTR Chat, join IRC (Internet Relay Chat), StarLink-IRC
Network, the channel name is #OldRadio.  We meet Thursdays at 8 PM Eastern
and go on, and on! The oldest OTR Chat Channel, it has been in existence
over nine years, same time, same channel! Started by Lois Culver, widow
of actor Howard Culver, this is the place to be on Thursday night for
real-time OTR talk!

Our "regulars" include OTR actors, soundmen, collectors, listeners, and
others interested in enjoying OTR from points all over the world. Discussions
range from favorite shows to almost anything else under the sun (sometimes
it's hard for us to stay on-topic)...but even if it isn't always focused,
it's always a good time!

For more info, contact charlie@[removed]. We hope to see you there, this
week and every week!

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 08:27:07 -0500
From: Ron Sayles <bogusotr@[removed];
To: Olde Tyme Radio Digest Digest <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  11-17 births/deaths

November 17th births

11-17-1878 - Grace Abbott - d. 7-19-1939
talks for mothers: "Your Child"
11-17-1897 - Frank Fay - San Francisco, CA - d. 9-25-1961
actor: "Jack Oakie's College"; "Rudy Vallee Show"
11-17-1898 - "Quin" Ryan - d. 10-7-1978
announcer, actor: "Quin Ryan Reports"; "Uncle Quin"; "Uncle Quin's
Scalawags"
11-17-1899 - Toscha Seidel - Odessa, Ukraine - d. 11-15-1962
violin virtuoso: Staff musician for CBS
11-17-1902 - Ricky Craig, Jr. - NYC - d. 11-28-1933
monologist: "Blue Ribbon Malt Jester"
11-17-1905 - Josef Marais - Sir Lowey's Pass, South Africa - d.
4-26-1978
singer: "African Trek/Sundown on the Veld"; "Meredith Willson Show"
11-17-1905 - Mischa Auer - St. Petersburg, Russia - d. 3-5-1967
actor: "Mischa the Magnificent"
11-17-1907 - L. Sprague de Camp - NYC - d. 11-6-2000
science fiction writer: "X-Minus One"; "Future Tense"
11-17-1911 - Jack Lescoulie - Sacramento, CA - d. 7-22-1987
announcer, emcee: "Grouch Club"; "Meet the Champions"
11-17-1916 - Bill Rogers - Thompsonville, MI - 5-28-1993
commentator, announcer: "Bill Rogers and the News"; "Hoot'nanny"
11-17-1916 - Frank Maxwell - The Bronx, NY - d. 8-5-2004
actor: Uthas P. Garvey "Colonel Humphrey Slack"
11-17-1917 - Byron Keith - Illinois - d. 1-19-1996
Started his career in radio in Boise, Idaho in the 1930s
11-17-1917 - Harry Worth - Tankersley, Yorkshire, England - d. 7-20-1989
actor: "New to You"
11-17-1918 - Paul Crabtree - Pulaski, VA - d. 3-9-1979
actor: David Naughton "Claudia and David"
11-17-1922 - Jack Farren - NYC - d. 6-25-1997
announcer: "Under Arrest"
11-17-1925 - Rock Hudson - Winnetka, IL - d. 10-2-1985
actor: "Lux Radio Theatre"
11-17-1931 - Wayne J. Andre - d. 8-26-2003
trombonist: Benny Goodman Orchestra; Woody Herman Orchestra
11-17-1935 - Audrey (Grace) Thomas - Binghamton, NY
writer: "Once Your Submarine Cable is Gone"
11-17-1936 - John Wells - Ashford, Kent, England - d. 1-11-1998
actor, writer: "Alice's Adventures in Wonderland"
11-17-1937 - Peter Cook - Devonshire, England - d. 1-9-1995
satirist, writer, comedian: "Why Bother"

November 17th deaths

01-17-1914 - Irving Brecher - NYC - d. 11-17-2008
writer, producer: "Community Sing"; "The Life of Riley"
01-30-1928 - Ruth Brown - Portsmouth, VA - d. 11-17-2006
singer: "Newport Jazz Festival"
02-01-1894 - James P. Johnson - New Brunswick, NJ - d. 11-17-1955
pianist: "Eddie Condon's Jazz Concerts"; "This is Jazz"
04-14-1916 - Emerson Buckley - NYC - d. 11-17-1989
conductor: "Two Thousand Plus"; "Murder By Experts"
05-17-1896 - Ruth Donnelly - Trenton, NJ - d. 11-17-1982
actor: "Lux Radio Theatre"
06-01-1887 - Clive Brook - London, England - d. 11-17-1974
actor: Sherlock Holmes "Sherlock Holmes"
06-15-1861 - Ernestine Schumann-Heink - Prague, Czechoslovkia - d.
11-17-1936
singer: "Enna Jettick Melodies"; "Hoover Sentinels Serenade"
06-19-1909 - Maurice Zimm - Waterloo, IA - d. 11-17-2005
writer: "The Man Who Sang"
06-19-1912 - Jerry Jerome - Brooklyn, NY - d. 11-17-2001
musician: "Eileen Barton Show"; "Mirth and Madness"
07-14-1919 - Claude Trenier - Mobile, AL - d. 11-17-2003
singer: "Jimmie Lunceford and His Orchestra"
07-24-1916 - Bob Eberly - Mechanicville, NY - d. 11-17-1981
singer: (Jimmy Dorsey Band)
08-19-1903 - Claude Dauphin - Corbeil, France - d. 11-17-1978
actor: "As Easy as [removed]"
09-15-1904 - Sheilah Graham - Leeds, England - d. 11-17-1988
gossip commentator: "Heinz Magazine of the Air"; "Sheilah Graham"
10-05-1903 - Jimmy Ritz - Newark, NJ - d. 11-17-1985
comedian: (The Ritz Brothers) "Hollywood Hotel"
11-22-1895 - Alexander Laszlo - Budapest, Hungary - d. 11-17-1970
orchestra leader: "This Is Your Life"
11-24-1900 - Ireene Wicker - Quincy, IL - d. 11-17-1987
actor: (The Singing Lady) Sylvia Bertram "Road of Life"; Eileen Moran
"Today's Children"
11-26-1913 - Bill Baldwin - Pueblo, CO - d. 11-17-1982
announcer: "Edgar Bergen/Charlie McCarthy Show"; "Mario Lanza Show"
12-18-1888 - Gladys Cooper - Lewisham, England - d. 11-17-1971
actor: "Fleischmann's Yeast Hour"

Ron

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 08:32:09 -0500
From: "Glenn P.," <C128User@[removed];
To: "[The Old-Time Radio Mailing List]" <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  Re; "War Of The Worlds" Version [removed]

I wrote:

 >> ...wait a couple of minutes for the players to cut to "The Meridian
 >> Room in the Park Plaza Hotel
<snip>
 > Yup, that's another one (although it's Ramon Raquello at this point,
 > not Bobby Millette)...

Ouch!!! My bad -- I misspoke! (Because I have Asperger's, believe it or not
I actually CARE about such things! <<Wince!>>.)

"Larry Groebe" <LGroebe@[removed]; then wrote:

 > What we seem to have, instead, is a RE-EDIT of the one-and-only
 > [removed]
<snip>
 > The question now is who? and why?
<snip>
 > Is this an attempt to create a copyrightable version? Seems silly, but I
 > don't have a better [removed]

Sorry, but THAT theory, I don't buy at ALL. In the first place, it would
be entirely too much trouble, and I don't believe it would create a
"copyrightable" version anyway.

In the second place, I do not buy the contention that it is impossible to
duplicate some of the voicings; practice CAN make perfect -- or, chance might
reasonably give one particular actor a knack for pulling off one particular
sound perfectly multiple times; so something like "the farmer shouting in
the background of the Wilmuth farm near the 12:30 mark" just isn't a reliable
criteria for judging such a thing. Indeed, IF anyone WANTED to duplicate the
Ramon Raquello "Meridian" stumble, it could be practiced to perfection pretty
easily. In other words, such things, while helpful, simply cannot be trusted
as definitive.

In the third place, I'm detecting some real differences of voicing, not just
of timing due to editing, although I agree that it's close in many places. But
Orson's speech in the beginning (for example) isn't delivered with QUITE the
same intonation. It's not just the timing.

But I'll go this far, Larry: If you will edit Orson's introductory speech,
beginning with "We know [removed]" and ending with "...listening in on radios"
in the Alternate Version to conform to the cadence of the Original, I'll
listen to it and tell you whether you are in fact correct in your surmise,
and if so I'll concede the validity of your case, if not the case itself.

In doing this, I trust you'll quickly see MY point about it being "too much
trouble" to "edit" a new "pseudo-version"!   :/

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 08:32:20 -0500
From: Grams46@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  candy matson

it was 60 years ago, during the november 10 1949  broadcast when candy
matson shot someone with a gun.   she stated that  it was her first time and
that the gun had been given to her by her friend, ray  mallard the week before
on her birthday.

peace from kathy
support our  troops; end the war in iraq
john 3:16

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 08:32:39 -0500
From: LBiel <[removed]@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  War of the Wars of the Worlds

Frank McGurn comments on the multi-generational copies of OTR such as War of
the Worlds and states that he has a complete perfect copy, and I (Michael
Biel) suppose it is sourced from an LP and is probably close to that LP, not
multi-generational.  The LPs are common enough that I doubt dealers ever had
to resort to multi-generational dubbing in this case.

I've discussed this before and demonstrated it at FOTR in '08.  The tape I
have is at the most 2nd generation off of the original 16-inch discs, and
contains something that no other version anybody has ever disclosed has -- 30
seconds of surface noise between the announcement leading into the station
break and the resumption announcement.  It is from the same discs as the
Manheim Fox production used on the LPs issued by Evolution, Longines, etc.,
but the station break time was cut out of the master used for the LPs which
sourced everybodys tapes but mine.  Except for the earlier abbreviated issue
on Audio Rarities in the 1950s, all issues have probably been dubs of those
Evolution/Longines LPs.  I received my tape a year BEFORE the first Evolution
LP issue.  Does ANYBODY have a tape similar to mine?????

As Martin Grams posted in Digest 210, he, Neil Ellis, Ken Stockinger, my
daughter Leah, and myself were the first to listen to Version 2 during the
drive on the way to Grovers Mill, NJ on Oct 30.  All of us were able to
immediately spot the differences, one after another after another.  At least
Ken, Neil, and myself did not need to play this version in sync with the
other to notice them.  Neil and I have been editing audio for decades -- I
started editing in 1959, so I've been doing it for 50 years -- and we both
were able to explain to the other three and to our broadcast audience that
evening on YesterdayUSA exactly how the changes had been made.  Slivers were
cut out between sentences, most bloopers were trimmed out, musical inserts
were moved around relative to their introductions, and extra measure of music
was repeated near the end of the first dance number, and there are examples
of speed change and pitch shifting to restore pitch to the speeded or slowed
words or music.  I think that this last technique is what has confused most
people.  But the fact that so much can be played in sync shows that it MUST
be the same recording.  And even more to the point, there is NOTHING NEW
anywhere in the recording.  No words or sounds that were not in the original
recording are heard here.

The question remains -- WHY?  Why did someone TAMPER with the recording?  I
don't think it was to make a new copyrightable version -- if they tried to
claim ownership the Howard Koch estate would be on their tail so quick it
would make their head spin.  No, I think it was simply to MESS WITH OUR
MINDS.  There is someone out there who is getting his jollies from every one
of these postings and of all of the time and questions this has taken.  This
is the same ilk as computer virus writers, Loch Ness Monster photo scammers,
the creator of the Cardiff Giant, the guy who used to start arguments on this
digest until Charlie banned (and re-banned) him, and the creeps who spread
political lies.  Maybe this guy did it to see if he could really get away
with it.  He couldn't because he was so inept and sloppy.  The guy is an
amateur.

Martin Grams has pointed out -- and wants it emphasized -- that it is likely
that some people have had only this altered version in their collection.
Thus it would be this tampered version that they think is the real and proper
version.  So check the two versions out on Charlie's blog.  But also check
what recordings you have.  If you do not hear the stutter by the announcer at
"Merid -- Meridian Room" that would be your first clue that you have the
altered version.  If you do, describe the recording itself (cassette, CD,
MP3, download, LP, etc.) and tell us where and when you got it.

Or admit that you did it!!

Michael Biel  mbiel@[removed]  (posting thru Leah's subscription)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 08:32:46 -0500
From: Ron Sayles <bogusotr@[removed];
To: Olde Tyme Radio Digest Digest <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  11-18 births/deaths

November 18th births

11-18-1836 - William S. Gilbert - London, England - d. 5-29-1911
composer: (Gilbert and Sullivan) "The Railroad Hour"
11-18-1860 - Jan Ignace Paderewski - Kurilovka. Poland - d. 6-21-1941
concert pianist, statesman: "Paderewski's Eightieth Birthday Tribute"
11-18-1885 - James Brennan - Boston, MA - d. 8-24-1956
composer, pianist: "The Sachs Program"
11-18-1888 - Frances Marion - San Francisco, CA - d. 5-12-1973
screen writer: "Lux Radio Theatre"
11-18-1891 - Sigmund Anker - Bern, Switzerland - d. 4-23-1958
violinist: KFRC San Francisco, California
11-18-1899 - Eugene Ormandy - Budapest, Hungary - d. 3-12-1985
conductor: "Roxy's Gang"; "Phildelphia Orchestra"
11-18-1900 - Don Quinn - Grand Rapids, MI - d. 12-30-1967
writer: "Fibber McGee and Molly"; "Halls of Ivy"
11-18-1901 - Dr. George Gallup - Jefferson, IA - d. 7-26-1984
statistician: "Living 1948"
11-18-1907 - Gwen Meredith - Orange, Australia - d. 10-3-2006
writer: "Blue Hills"; "The Lawsons"
11-18-1908 - Imogene Coca - Philadelphia, PA - d. 6-2-2001
comedian: "Big Show"
11-18-1909 - Johnny Mercer - Savannah, GA - d. 6-25-1976
singer: "Camel Caravan"; "Johnny Mercer's Music Shop"; "Dinah Shore
Show"
11-18-1912 - Arthur Peterson - Mandan, ND - d. 10-31-1996
actor: Reverend John Rutledge "The Guiding Light"; "World's Great
Novels"
11-18-1919 - Georgia Carroll - Bloomington Grove, TX
singer: (Wife of Kay Kyser) "Kay Kyser's Kollege of Musical Knowledge"
11-18-1923 - Alan Shepard - Derry, NH - d. 7-21-1998
astronaut: "NASA Audio News"; "Space Story"
11-18-1924 - Les Lye - Toronto, Canada - d. 7-21-2009
emcee: CFRA Ottawa; CKEY Toronto
11-18-1926 - Dorothy Collins - Windsor, Ontario, Canada - d. 7-21-1994
singer: "Your Hit Parade"
11-18-1928 - Mickey Mouse - Hollywood, CA
cartoon character: "Mickey Mouse Theatre of the Air"
11-18-1936 - Don Cherry - Oklahoma City, OK - d. 10-19-1995
jazz trumpeter: "Manhattan Melodies"
11-18-1939 - Brenda Vaccaro - Brooklyn, NY
actor: "We Hold These Truths"
11-18-1945 - Glenn Walken - Queens, NY
actor: (Brother of Christopher) Michael Bauer "The Guiding Light"

November 18th deaths

03-13-1913 - Harold J. Stone - NYC - d. 11-18-2005
actor: Sergeant Waters "21st Precinct"
03-30-1902 - Ted Heath - Wandsworth, London, England - d. 11-18-1969
bandleader: "Ted Heath and His Orchestra"
05-01-1888 - [removed] Armstrong - Waverley, Australia - d. 11-18-1973
writer: "Drought"
05-29-1924 - Bob Corley - Macon, GA - d. 11-18-1971
actor: Beulah "Beulah"
06-07-1907 - Tom Slater - Parkersburg, WV - d. 11-18-1961
announcer: "Kitty Keen"; "Jack Berch Program"; "For Men Only"
06-14-1929 - Cy Coleman - NYC - d. 11-18-2004
jazz pianist, composer: "Cy Coleman at the Piano"; "Voices of Vista"
06-18-1893 - Gladys Gooding - Macon, MO - d. 11-18-1963
organist, singer: organist at Madison Square Garden
07-06-1910 - Dorothy Kirsten - Montclair, NJ - d. 11-18-1992
singer: "Keepsakes"; "Kraft Music Hall"; "Light Up Time"
07-11-1894 - Walter Wanger - San Francisco, CA - d. 11-18-1968
film producer: "Information, Please"; "Hollywood Fights Back"; "Lux
Radio Theatre"
07-14-1880 - Donald Meek - Glasgow, Scotland - d. 11-18-1946
actor: "Lux Radio Theatre"
08-29-1916 - Max Bice - d. 11-18-2002
newscaster: KMO Seattle, Washington
09-06-1888 - Joseph P. Kennedy - East Boston, MA - d. 11-18-1969
ambassador to Great Britain: "Ambassador Joseph Kennedy"
09-18-1948 - Ken Brett - Brooklyn, NY - d. 11-18-2003
part of the Los Angeles Dodgers broadcast team
09-21-1916 - Zinovy Gerdt - Sebezh, Russia - d. 11-18-1996
actor: Read poetry and prose on radio
10-07-1888 - Henry Wallace - Adair County, IA - d. 11-18-1965
vice president: "Free World Theatre"
10-15-1900 - Fritz Feld - Berlin, Germany - d. 11-18-1993
actor: "NBC Uinversity Theatre"; "Nightbeat"; "Advs. of the Saint"
10-30-1891 - Bill Brandt - d. 11-18-1963
sports commentator: "Inside of Sports"
11-29-1894 - H. Leslie Atlass - d. 11-18-1960
Chicago radio pioneer, CBS executive
12-12-1909 - Louis G. Cowan - Chicago, IL - d. 11-18-1976
producer: "The Quiz Kids"; "Murder at Midnight"
12-12-1913 - Hal Dickinson - Buffalo, NY - d. 11-18-1970
organized Modernaires: "Paul Whiteman and His Orchestra"
xx-xx-1919 - Walter McGraw - d. 11-18-1978
director: "Believe It or Not"; "The Chase"

Ron

--------------------------------
End of [removed] Digest V2009 Issue #221
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