Subject: [removed] Digest V2003 #440
From: <[removed]@[removed]>
Date: 12/10/2003 1:36 AM

To: <[removed]@[removed];

    ------------------------------

                                The Old-Time Radio Digest!
                                  Volume 2003 : Issue 440
                             A Part of the [removed]!
                                     ISSN: 1533-9289

                                     Today's Topics:

      Ellen Drew                            [ "RBB" <oldradio@[removed]; ]
      Easter Sunday                         [ otrdude@[removed] ]
      "Famous Christmas "S"'s, for 0 Dolla  [ Wich2@[removed] ]
      OTR Epithets                          [ "Stephen A Kallis, Jr." <skallisjr@ ]
      BBC archives (again)                  [ "Phil Watson" <philwats@[removed] ]
      12-10 births/deaths                   [ Ron Sayles <bogusotr@[removed]; ]
      swearing in OTR?                      [ "[removed]" <[removed]@[removed] ]
      Sedate detectives                     [ Kenneth Clarke <kclarke5@[removed]; ]
      Irish Mail                            [ "David H. Buswell" <dbuswell@rivnet ]
      Radio Happenings sample               [ "B. J. Watkins" <kinseyfan@hotmail. ]
      BBC Archive                           [ "david rogers" <david_rogers@hotmai ]
      Flocking is NOT painting              [ "MICHAEL BIEL" <mbiel@[removed]; ]
      Gunsmoke                              [ "Katja and Tom" <kattom@[removed] ]
      Re: Foul Language                     [ BryanH362@[removed] ]

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 12:45:19 -0500
    From: "RBB" <oldradio@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Ellen Drew

    Ellen Drew has died at age 89 in Palm Desert, CA.  She was discovered
    serving hot fudge sundaes in a Hollywood Boulevard ice cream parlour.  Her
    film credits include "Buck Benny Rides Again" as a straight woman to Jack
    Benny in the comedy film.
    She also appeared on early, dramatic television shows.

    Was she also on the Jack Benny radio shows, does any one know?  Thanks.

    Russ Butler  oldradio@[removed]

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 12:45:47 -0500
    From: otrdude@[removed]
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Easter Sunday
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    I found an eccliastical calendar calculator at
    [removed]~[removed]

    It says:

    Ash Wednesday is 26 February, 1941.
    Laetare Sunday is 23 March, 1941.
    Palm/Passion Sunday is 6 April, 1941.
    Good Friday is 11 April, 1941.
    (Western) Easter Sunday is 13 April, 1941.

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    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 13:28:37 -0500
    From: Wich2@[removed]
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  "Famous Christmas "S"'s, for 0 Dollars!"

    Folks-
    I'm late in reacting here; hustling to prep THE BLUE CARBUNCLE for WBAI
    airing just after Christmas, as well as A CHRISTMAS CAROL for WYRS this
    Friday night(!).
    My intent is not to ignite a flame(-ing yule log) here, but I have to respond
    to a recent unfair jab at fellow OTR lover Carl Amari. I'm not naive, & grasp
    why some folks in this group may not want to consider him a "Santa"; but,
    having played Dickens' "squeezing, grasping, clutching, covetous old sinner"
    several times, I'll reference a quote from a presidential campaign not too
    long [removed]

    "I've known Ebenezer Scrooge; I've worked with Ebenezer Scrooge; and Sir,
    Carl Amari is no Ebenezer Scrooge!"

    Blessed Holidays to you & yours,
    Craig Wichman

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 15:58:51 -0500
    From: "Stephen A Kallis, Jr." <skallisjr@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  OTR Epithets

    Speaking of exclamations, Joe Salerno notes, anent "Leaping lizards!"

>     We all know who said that one - Orphan Annie!

    On the Captain Midnight program, the Secret Squadron leader's phrase was
    "Great Scott!"

    Chuck Ramsay's was "Looping loops!"  This was an aviation oriented
    phrase.

    Joyce Ryan's was, "Gee-manee!"  [This was once quoted by a prominent
    writer as "Gemini!"  It was too drawn out for that.]

    Ichabod Mudd's was "Blazing beacons!"  Chuck occasionally used that one,
    too.  Another of Mudd's was "Leapin' sawfish!"  Well, he was a good
    fisherman.

    Stephen A. Kallis, Jr.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 16:00:11 -0500
    From: "Phil Watson" <philwats@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  BBC archives (again)

    "MICHAEL BIEL" <mbiel@[removed]; recently wrote

>     I have often said in print that there is no archive in the world which has
>     embarrassed itself more than the BBC when it is discovered what they have
>     not kept. ......

    In the early days of videorecordings the tape reels were very expensive and
    cost more than the programmes they contained, and of course the artists'
    contracts did not include right to rebroadcast clauses, so it was expedient
    to reuse the tape reels.

    On Mon, 14 May 2001 , I wrote for the digest

>     Further to recent posts of mine about the BBC clearing their archives, only
>     this morning there was a feature on BBC's breakfast TV show.

    The BBC is launching a nationwide hunt to unearth lost programme gems such
    as episodes of Dr. Who or Steptoe and Son which have disappeared from
    television archives.

     In an interview the BBC Archive Manager, Paul Bland (phonetic) said "It was
    a different culture in those days, it was thirty years ago, and people saw
    pop culture and comedy in a different light to that we see today. I am told
    that it wouldn't happen today. They were massive tapes they were recorded
    on, there was a lot of pressure on funding for the BBC, they found it very
    difficult to keep them and they didn't value them. They just re-recorded
    over them. The whole ethos was that actors would come in out of the West End
    (theatres), they would work during the afternoon, and we used tape in those
    days just to record it then to shift it to an evening transmission, and then
    next week we would record over the top again. That's why there are so many
    of the Dr. Who and other series missing. I think also it was how people
    valued it, and I think that's what's really changed. Hancock, and other most
    wonderful stuff, they wiped. I think it is worth a lot finding them, in
    terms of cultural heritage, it is worth a lot in the commercial world as
    well. I think we're more motivated by trying to fill these gaps. The missing
    shows could be in people's attics, and people were able to take them home,
    didn't return them, people weren't chased up for them. When people have
    passed on their families have come forward and said "Are these of any value"
    and we found a lot of things overseas, from when the BBC sold things
    overseas, Australia had a lot of Dr. Who, and the Merchant Navy had a lot of
    things to show at sea" (edited from a discussion)

    Of course the same applies to radio. Many acetates were in the hands of
    producers, scriptwriters etc. However acetates and transcription discs were
    never made in the same quantities as in America, where I understand they
    were made in the hundreds. Here in the UK up to the 60s there was one
    broadcaster, and when it was broadcast it may have been kept for repeat, or
    it might not. I think it's tragic to think that a reel of tape was thought
    too expensive to store for the future and it was more expedient to re-use
    it."

    American film stars Ben Lyon & Bebe Daniels had a wonderful BBC comedy
    series "Life With The Lyons" That ran from 1950 to 1961, over 250 episodes.
    The BBC hold around 4 episodes. In  the 1980's Ben Lyon's own tapes of the
    series were given to the BBC but after listening to a few they rejected them
    for future broadcast and were about to destroy them. An OTR club in the UK
    heard of it and persuaded the BBC to donate them, where they have been
    transferred to cassette for rent to members.

    I remember hearing with horror that used Transcription Service LPs returned
    after foreign broadcasts were routinely smashed on Saturday overtime, with
    no attempt being made to check if the original master tapes had been
    retained in the archives. In many cases the only versions of some shows that
    are available are TS versions "liberated" by staff in the 1960s/70s instead
    of being smashed and returned to the BBC in the last few years.

    The most recent Treasure Hunt has had several lost series or shows returned
    by home tapers, including a Kenneth Williams comedy series, and these have
    been broadcast on the digital BBC7 station with extracts on Radio 4.

    Phil

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 16:00:19 -0500
    From: Ron Sayles <bogusotr@[removed];
    To: Olde Tyme Radio List <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  12-10 births/deaths

    December 10th births

    12-10-1889 - Ray Collins - Sacramento, CA - d. 7-11-1965
    actor: Doc Will Hackett, "County Seat"; member of The Mercury Theatre
    12-10-1903 - Una Merkel - Covington, KY - d. 1-2-1986
    actress: Adeline Fairchild "Great Gildersleeve"; "Johnny Presents"; "Texaxo
    Star Theatre"
    12-10-1911 - Chet Huntley - Cardwell, CO - d. 3-20-1974
    newscaster, producer: "They Burned the Books"
    12-10-1913 - Morton Gould - Richmond Hill, NY - d. 2-21-1996
    conductor: "Music for Today"; "Original Amateur Hour"; "Cresta Blanca Carnival"
    12-10-1914 - Dorothy Lamour - New Orleans, LA - d. 9-21-1996
    singer, actress: "Chase & Sanborn Hour"; "Front and Center"; "Sealtest
    Variety Show"
    12-10-1914 - Jean Dickenson - Montreal, Canada
    singer: (Nightingale of the Airwaves) "American Album of Familiar Music";
    "Hollywood Hotel"
    12-10-1920 - Dennis Morgan - Prentice, WI - d. 9-7-1994
    actor, singer: "Lux Radio Theatre"; "[removed] Steel Hour"; "Screen Guild Theatre"
    12-10-1960 - Kenneth Branagh - Belfast, North Ireland
    actor: Renaissance Theatre Company in association with BBC Radio Drama

    December 10th deaths

    05-05-1899 - Freeman F. Gosden - Richmond, VA - d. 12-10-1982
    comedian: "Sam 'n" Henry"; Amos Jones "Amos 'n" Andy"
    05-08-1895 - Bishop Fulton J. Sheen - El Paso, IL - d. 12-10-1979
    preacher: "Catholic Hour"
    08-02-1892 - John Kieran - The Bronx, NY, New  - d. 12-10-1980
    panelist: "Information Please"
    08-02-1912 - Ann Dvorak - NYC - d. 12-10-1979 - d. 12-10-1979
    actress: "Movietone Radio Theatre"
    08-26-1907 - Jack Berch - Sigel, IL - d. 12-10-1992
    singer: "Kitchen Pirate"; "Sweetheart Serenade"; "Jack Berch Show"
    12-11-1922 - Marie Windsor - Marysvale, UT - d. 12-10-2000
    actress: Irma Peterson "My Friend Irma"

    Ron Sayles
    Milwaukee, Wisconsin

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 16:01:16 -0500
    From: "[removed]" <[removed]@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  swearing in OTR?

    In #439, Mike Mackey wrote:

>     The lack of foul language is one of the characteristics of
>     OTR that I believe has helped to keep it [removed];SNIP>...
>     Thankfully we do have otr to not only educate us and enrich
>     us, but to entertain us as well.

    By quoting his message, it is not my attempt to single out Mike Mackey, or to
    pick on him personally.  I selected his as typical of a class of messages
    that have been posted recently, where OTR is praised because of it's lack of
    'bad' language.  I've been thinking quite a bit about this subject lately.

    First, let me say that I don't have any problem with appropriate swearing.
    In some situations it can be gratuitous, or even [removed] in other cases, NOT
    swearing sounds silly.  Take, for example, the typical 'old-style' war movie
    (you know the type, where the sweet-hearted blonde white kid always gets
    killed to symbolize the horror and senselessness of war), where all the
    soldier use these absolutely tortured and forced euphemisms in the place of
    swearing.  I've never been in a war personally, but a trench full of soldiers
    locked in hand-to-hand combat spouting lines like "curse you" and "you dirty
    rats" just sounds (and looks) a little silly.  Or consider the person who
    types something like "bulls***", as if those three asterisks somehow make it
    better.  If you choose not to swear, that's fine and I respect that.  If you
    choose to swear, that's fine and I respect that too.  But to do something
    silly like replacing a few letters with asterisks deserves no respect.
    Everyone knows what you're pretending not to type, you don't gain any
    acceptability or politeness by not actually typing the entire word.  Take a
    stand and pick one side or the other, but don't try to do both by swearing
    with *'s.

    Anyway, that being said, I'm not sure I accept the argument that OTR is
    morally superior because it lacks 'bad' words.  Since when did whether or not
    a program uses a bad word be the sole criteria on which a show's quality,
    worth, or morality is judged.  It's seem a pretty poor standard to me.
    There's some shows in OTR that are horribly racist, xenophobic, and
    misogynistic (even if not intentionally).  In many cases, there was one
    standard of what your color should be, what religion you are, what country
    you're from, how your family is made up, and what your politics should be.
    If you didn't conform to that particular standard you are at best ignored, at
    worst ridiculed, blamed for all of the country's evils and condemned to
    eternal damnation.  Yet, for some reason I'm supposed to accept these
    particular shows as morally superior because they don't have an occasional
    damn or hell?  I don't buy it.

    I love OTR very much, but I don't overlook it's faults and I don't reject
    everything modern because it's different than OTR.

    [removed] are exhausting.
    -chris holm

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 16:01:26 -0500
    From: Kenneth Clarke <kclarke5@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Sedate detectives

              It really depends on what you mean by 'sedate'.
    IMHO, I'd list Nero Wolfe, Mr. Moto, Ellery Queen,
    Mr. Keen, and Charlie Chan.  In some ways, Hercule
    Poirot and Dan Holiday ("Box 13") could be considered
    sedate.

              There are also some crime detecting couples
    who some might consider for this category.  In particular,
    "Mr. and Mrs. North" as well as Nick and Nora Charles
    ("The Thin Man").

              Are you referring to the amount  of activity  each
    one of them put into their individual cases?  Are you
    referring to the more cerebral detectives rather than the
    more hands on type?  Each one of these detectives and
    detective couples did a certain amount of sleuthing, but
    Nero Wolfe delegated most of the leg work to his sidekick
    Archie Goodwin.  (If that isn't sedate, I'd like to know what
    is.)

    Kenneth Clarke

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 16:24:18 -0500
    From: "David H. Buswell" <dbuswell@[removed];
    To: "OTR" <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Irish Mail
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    Following my recent reading about the word "velocipede" and begging
    Charlie's indulgence, I have an allied question that is driving me nuts but
    somehow I think can be answered by OTR Digest habituC)s.  When I was boy in
    the 1930s my parents gave me for Christmas what was called an "Irish Mail."
    It was in the form of a child's fire engine and was moved by pulling a
    handle back and forth in much the same manner as those rail workers' cars.
    Here's my question: there is another, more formal, name for this mobile toy
    ([removed], much like "velocipede," ) but, for the life of me, I can't remember
    it.  Can anyone help?

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    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 17:56:43 -0500
    From: "B. J. Watkins" <kinseyfan@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Radio Happenings sample

    For those of you in the Los Angeles area, here are two items of interest:

    1.  Saul Levine, General Manager/owner of KSUR 1240 AM, has reached an
    exclusive relationship with the syndicator that produced the radio dramas
    for KNX. In addition to the "Twilight Zone" shows, the station will also air
    Stan Freberg's "Radio That Was" and a nightly original drama from the
    Imagination Radio Theatre. Beginning Monday, the three-hour drama block will
    air from 8 [removed] to 11 [removed]

    2.  On December 10 Art Laboe will host an Evening @ the Barn at the
    Hollywood Heritage Museum in the Lasky-Demille Barn located across from the
    Hollywood Bowl. You are invited to this event that benefits Hollywood
    Heritage Inc. There is an $8 fee for non-members. Art Laboe's panel of
    Friends will include the following radio broadcasting pioneers and
    entertainers: Don Barrett (Los Angeles Radio People), Frank Bresee (The
    Golden Days of Radio), Cleve Duncan (The Penguins), Johnny Hayes (formerly
    with KRLA and KRTH), Val Poliuto (The Jaguars), Trini Lopez (recording
    artist/actor) and Charlie Tuna (KBIG), Johnny Grant (Honorary Mayor of
    Hollywood), Casey Kasem (American Top 20) and many others. Art Laboe and His
    Friends will take questions from the audience and discuss their amazing
    journey through LA radio, concerts, rock & roll, records and their ties to
    tv and movies. An autograph session will follow the discussion.

    If you'd like to receive my "Radio Happenings" newsletter by email, just ask
    to be put on the mailing list.

    Barbara

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 18:11:34 -0500
    From: "david rogers" <david_rogers@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  BBC Archive

    It was very interesting to hear Michael Biel's comments on the BBC archive.
    Maybe he or anybody else "in the know" could answer a question that has been
    bugging me for a while - well actually there are a couple of questions:

    1 - Why does there seem to be a reluctance to release "short run" releases
    of limited interest shows? Either TV or radio?  In this digital age, surely
    it would not be that difficult.  For example, I recently got my hands on a
    VCD copy of an old BBC science fiction show called "The Nowhere Man."  I
    went to the net and found that there is a quite a cult following for the
    show as well as petitions for its release on DVD.  However, the BBC seems
    reluctant to release it.  Why?  Just to anticipate an arguement.  The idea
    that it takes as much time to prepare a show for a duplication of 100 copies
    and 10, 000 copies does not seem acceptable, when there is such a large
    archive and so much of it is untouched.  If people want stuff and are
    willing to pay for it and it is lying there earning no money while it sits
    on the [removed] you see what I mean?

    2 - This brings me to a second point about many universities etc that hold
    archive material and there is limited access to stuff.  Radio (and TV) is
    broadcast material.  I can understand limited access so that stuff does not
    get damaged, however, to protect people from hearing it and (God forbid)
    copying it, seems to deny what such material is - broadcast material.  They
    were not created as things that were to be untouched, they are things which
    are to be seen and/or heard.
    I feel that one of the greatest things that the BBC has done recently is
    radio 7 and the rebroadcasting of some of its old shows - particularly
    through the Internet.  I don't know much about these things but it seems
    that setting up an Internet radio is not tough - I know people that do it
    from there house.  Is it too much to ask that some universities or other
    such institutes rebroadcast items that they hpld through Internet radio.  I
    know that many universities already have an Internet college radio.  If they
    can play pop music, why not other things.  I know that the interest will be
    smaller, maybe a few fans and scholars - but that is what such institutes
    cater to.

    I can already feel Michael Biel reaching for his reply button and saying
    "While it may seem common sense, the sad reality is [removed]"

    Love as always, David Rogers

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 19:04:39 -0500
    From: "MICHAEL BIEL" <mbiel@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Flocking is NOT painting

    Chris is very confused with Ted's reference to flocking a Christmas tree
    because painting and flocking are two entirely different things.  We all
    know what painting is, that is just coating an item with a colored liquid
    paint which dries and gives it a color.  But flocking is when you brush or
    spray an item with glue and then you dust it with fibres or powder or
    cotton or some substance you want to cover it with to give it a color AND a
    fluffy, fuzzy, or sparkling surface.  The fuzzy coating that we find on
    turntables from the 1930s into the 50s were done this way.  In looking up
    the definition on the web I find many sites with flocking fiber, powder
    flocking, flocking textile, cellulose powder, glitter, mica, pearlscent
    flakes, poly plastic, and other such substances with which to flock many
    items including Christmas trees.

    Michael Biel   mbiel@[removed]

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 19:13:51 -0500
    From: "Katja and Tom" <kattom@[removed];
    To: "OTR Digest" <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Gunsmoke

    Someone posted the other day about the recurring "Hi, John" line in Gunsmoke
    and whether it was the same John as in the 1952 Christmas episode.

    The "History of Gunsmoke" show mentions [removed] so often a producer
    would say "Hi, Matt!" in the middle of an episode. Matt would respond "Hi,
    John" and move on.

    While it may be the same voice/actor as the John character in the Christmas
    episode, I don't think it was the same character. It was sort of an inside
    joke.

    Perhaps the esteemed Mr. Bartell will weigh in on this.

    Tom Z.
    from the "Oldest Summer Resort in America"

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 23:54:53 -0500
    From: BryanH362@[removed]
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Re: Foul Language
    X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative
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    Well  unlike Elizabeth's  my family DID NOT  talk like that .  My grandfather
    would never have let anyone into his home with that  kind of language . He
    viewed such language as crass and ill mannered.   People like my grandfather
    were quite numerous in those days
    and that probably had some effect on why  OTR was what it was and is what it
    is.
    I recall being corrected by an elderly neighbor when I would even say  "oh my
    god "  . It was the lord's name in vain you see.  I used to think that these
    folks were  being  nit  picky but in the end I prefer it  to what I hear from
    lips today . So given a choice I''d have  given up a few swear  words to avoid
    what we have today . (if that's all it took ) .
    Yes, like some others,  I like OTR the way it is. .

    Bryan

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    End of [removed] Digest V2003 Issue #440
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