Subject: [removed] Digest V2012 #31
From: [removed]@[removed]
Date: 2/15/2012 10:18 PM
To: [removed]@[removed]
Reply-to:
[removed]@[removed]

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                            The Old-Time Radio Digest!
                              Volume 2012 : Issue 31
                         A Part of the [removed]!
                             [removed]
                                 ISSN: 1533-9289


                                 Today's Topics:

  #OldRadio IRC Chat this Thursday Nig  [ charlie@[removed] ]
  Memories of Hal (Harlan) Stone, 1931  [ "Ian Grieve" <austotr@[removed] ]
  re: Racism and otr                    [ rand@[removed] ]
  The Shadow                            [ "Ian Grieve" <austotr@[removed] ]
  Re: Harlan Stone                      [ "Bob Scherago" <scherago@[removed] ]

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2012 02:12:01 -0500
From: charlie@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  #OldRadio IRC Chat this Thursday Night!

A weekly [removed]

For the best in OTR Chat, join IRC (Internet Relay Chat), StarLink-IRC
Network, the channel name is #OldRadio.  We meet Thursdays at 8 PM Eastern
and go on, and on! The oldest OTR Chat Channel, it has been in existence
over nine years, same time, same channel! Started by Lois Culver, widow
of actor Howard Culver, this is the place to be on Thursday night for
real-time OTR talk!

Our "regulars" include OTR actors, soundmen, collectors, listeners, and
others interested in enjoying OTR from points all over the world. Discussions
range from favorite shows to almost anything else under the sun (sometimes
it's hard for us to stay on-topic)...but even if it isn't always focused,
it's always a good time!

For more info, contact charlie@[removed]. We hope to see you there, this
week and every week!

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2012 13:26:01 -0500
From: "Ian Grieve" <austotr@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  Memories of Hal (Harlan) Stone, 1931-2007

In issue 30 Derek Tague took the time to remind us of Hal Stone.  One of my
biggest regrets in OTR is that I didn't visit FOTR when Hal was there.  I
intended to, but kept putting it off.  I loved sparing with him and Dereks
kind words about Hal brought it all back.  "Awesome Aussie", he wrote that
inside his book for me and it meant a [removed] me.  What an education I was
given between Hal and others throwing in terms like "pearl diving in a
diner" to descibe doing the dishes, I learnt a lot.  5 Years, didn't think
it was that long.  I wish I had met you in person Hal.

Ian Grieve

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2012 13:26:07 -0500
From: rand@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  re: Racism and otr

I'll throw in my two cents about racism in otr.

As others have mentioned, otr is a reflection of its time, just like any
other popular culture artifact.  Watch and old movie from the 30s or 40s,
and you find just as much casual racism, sexism and stereotyping - Blacks
as porters, "exotic" Asians, Irish cops, women stuck in particular roles,
etc.

Do I feel guilty watching old movies or listening to old radio shows?
Absolutely not.

As a historian of the era, I can accept the material for what it is and
look at other aspects of the characters, the story, or the craftsmanship
that went into creating it.  It's not unlike looking at books like
"Huckleberry Finn" in the context of their times and recognizing the
artistry of Mark Twain as an author.

I do have difficulty sitting through some otr or movies of the period that
are so relentless in racism or stereotypes in their subject matter.  As a
collector of more "odd" radio transcriptions, I've run into plenty of
shows that were probably outdated in their views on minorities when they
were originally broadcast and practically unbearable today.  (You can
explore them at my blog, [removed] .)

One is "Southland Echoes", a strange show recorded for syndication in 1947
and distributed in the south and some rural markets.  It's a strange mix -
southern gospel quartet songs, music by a group of yodeling sisters, and a
Blackface comedy team that sounds like a throwback to the 1920s.  I
listened to it once to dub and restore it to digital, but couldn't stomach
any more than that - it says a great deal about the different attitudes
towards Blacks in the South as late as 1947.  (And says something about
the stir created just a few years later when Elvis and other singers
combined "race" music with country to create early rock n' roll or we saw
the emergence of the early civil rights movement in the south.)

Another was quite painful to restore - the only surviving episode of
"Plantation Echoes", a circa 1930 Transco syndicated series, featuring a
Black cast performing a play taking place on an "Old South" plantation,
singing spirituals and creating a stereotyped picture of slave life that
would make "Gone with the Wind" look like "Guess Who's Coming to Dinner?"
That disc was accidentally shattered when it was sent to me in the mail -
I had to spend many hours transferring it to digital and piecing it back
together.

Then there's "Uncle Remus", featuring white performer Jimmie Scribner
performing all the roles in the famous stories in a syndicated series in
the 1940s.  The series is historically important, coming out about the
same time as the Disney film and you're amazed at Scribner's talent, but
the racism and stereotyping is tough to swallow.

I'll note that these discs are no longer in my collection - I donated them
to the Special Collections Library at Duke, along with several other
transcriptions that have a great deal of historical value.  While I might
get out one of my AFRS or lacer transcriptions of "Suspense" or many other
shows and play the original once in a while and enjoy it, these are shows
I'll probably never listen to again.  I don't "enjoy" them as much as I
found them interesting as artifacts of their time that need to be
preserved.

I'll leave you with a couple of more thoughts on the matter that are very
personal.

As a Gay man and a filmmaker that has made documentary features on Gay
subjects, I'm always interested in the occasional, off-hand references to
homosexuality and gay stereotypes in otr and films that are occasionally
found in early 30s radio shows and pre-Code movies - one of Fred Allen's
"Linit Bath Club" shows or the original early 30s Warner Brothers
production of "The Maltese Falcon" are examples.

I can stomach this casual stereotyping of that era more than I can the
relentless stereotyping of Gays and Lesbians I see in current LGBT films,
Sirius/XM's gay radio channel, or sitcoms on network television like "Will
and Grace".

I'm a Gay man that would rather watch a good action movie than listen to
the excruciating lisping announcers and dance music on Sirius/XM's Out-Q
or sit through the campy comedies and perfect Ambercrombie and Fitch
models featured in some idyllic urban Gay existence in an LGBT film fest.
I find it all just as embarrassing as 1930s Blackface.

So, if you look around you at popular culture, you'll see cultural and
racial stereotypes still out there today.  But, is it any better that
minorities themselves are perpetuating their own stereotypes?  Isn't any
book, radio show, record or film just a reflection of the time in which it
was created?

rand

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2012 13:26:36 -0500
From: "Ian Grieve" <austotr@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  The Shadow

There has been a lot of talk about accuracy in regard to The Shadow.  But
nobody has mentioned the biggest mistake of all in Martin's book of The
Shadow.  I mean to say, whats a few issues of Love Story and who said what
and who actually did it, in comparison to mistakes the size of continents.
Page 762, paragraph 4, line 3.  South America instead of South Australia.
How could a mistake like that slip through?  Probably because I didn't
notice it.  My apologies and I am sure it will be replaced by an even bigger
mistake next time :)

I have The Shadow Scrapbook and I have Martin's book.  Martin's book is too
big and I haven't read it all yet.  I have read the Scrapbook and enjoyed it
and didn't notice any errors.  I have read Appendix D in Martin's book and
spotted the glaring error.  However, Martin's book did have that little bit
about The Shadow in Australia which has reduced a lot of email I used to get
asking me about that little known show.  Little known in Australia anyway,
but certainly the first show I was always asked about in correspondence from
the [removed]  I am thankful that someone, starting with Roy Bright, wanted the
Australian story told factually.  Apart from that huge mistake of course :)

I have never written a book.  I am part way through working on a couple, but
I couldn't imagine the effort that goes into compiling a book like Martin
Grams, The Shadow and keeping all the facts straight and in the right order
etc.  That is a massive book with a massive amount of information and if
there are [removed] and I am sure there is more than the one I know [removed]
well, we will just have to look forward to another edition, in bigger print
as I will need it by then.

Anthony Tollin, I enjoyed your Shadow Scrapbook, I am no expert on The
Shadow and you have just educated me and a lot of other folks on what
questions still need answers.  I bet a lot more people are going to be
looking for the answers now and that is only going to be a good thing.  Its
good to know what it is that we don't know.  When it comes to writing a book
on research, there are going to be a lot of different styles and some folk
will differ on accuracy and what the criterior is for including information
unconfirmed by documentation.  It doesn't make one way right or wrong and I
agree that people's recollections are important, accurate or not, they
become a part of the story, but they might not fit every style of book or
style of author.

Ian Grieve

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2012 13:29:19 -0500
From: "Bob Scherago" <scherago@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  Re: Harlan Stone

From: Derek Tague <thatderek@[removed];
Next week marks the fifth anniversary of the passing of the man I call the
"Patron Saint of the Old Time Radio Digest." Hal Stone died unexpectedly
from post-surgical complications on February 21, 2007.

It's incredible to believe that Jughead died nearly five years ago. I used
to enjoy his posts to this list, and really enjoyed reading his book, but
more than that, I enjoyed the personal communication from him when I ordered
his book. He was a gentleman, and I know he's missed by all the listers here
who remember him.

--------------------------------
End of [removed] Digest V2012 Issue #31
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