Subject: [removed] Digest V2006 #311
From: [removed]@[removed]
Date: 11/10/2006 9:24 AM
To: [removed]@[removed]

------------------------------


                            The Old-Time Radio Digest!
                              Volume 2006 : Issue 311
                         A Part of the [removed]!
                             [removed]
                                 ISSN: 1533-9289


                                 Today's Topics:

  Burns and Allen                       [ "Robert Birchard" <bbirchard@earthl ]
  The Meadow Gold Round-Up              [ "Robert Birchard" <bbirchard@earthl ]
  A once-in-a-lifetime opportunity and  [ "Robert Birchard" <bbirchard@earthl ]
  11-10 births/deaths                   [ Ronald Sayles <bogusotr@[removed] ]
  Burns and Allen Concede               [ John Mayer <mayer@[removed]; ]
  Ishkabibble and Poets on OTR          [ John Mayer <mayer@[removed]; ]
  Poets                                 [ "RadioAZ@[removed]" <radioAZ@bas ]
  John Brown                            [ <vzeo0hfk@[removed]; ]
  Otr and the election                  [ "A. Joseph Ross" <joe@attorneyross. ]
  Re: Say Goodnight                     [ Dixonhayes@[removed] ]
  (A Bit OT) Re: Cold War [removed]      [ "Glenn P.," <C128User@[removed]; ]
  re: "Say Goodnight, Gracie" misquote  [ "W. Gary Wetstein" <wgaryw@pacbell. ]
  Re: Say Goodnight                     [ Charlie Summers <charlie@[removed] ]
  Re: John Brown, blacklisted           [ "Michael J. Hayde" <michaelhayde@ea ]

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2006 22:13:52 -0500
From: "Robert Birchard" <bbirchard@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Burns and Allen
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Regarding Gregg Oppenheimer's observation about the senators' names: Burns
and Allen, he's referring, perhaps, to a similarity to Bob Burns and Barbara
Jo Allen?  ;-}

Now available from the University Press of Kentucky
"Cecil B. DeMille's Hollywood" by Robert S. Birchard
[removed]

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Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2006 22:15:01 -0500
From: "Robert Birchard" <bbirchard@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  The Meadow Gold Round-Up
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    Can anyone tell me anything about "The Meadow Gold Round-Up"?  I know
Francis X. Bushman played "Lighting Jim" and it was from ca. 1938, but more
details would be appreciated if anyone has them.

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Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2006 22:14:53 -0500
From: "Robert Birchard" <bbirchard@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  A once-in-a-lifetime opportunity and the
 value of a misspent youth
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    I was at a party a few weeks ago, and chatting with a small group of
folks.  Two of the women in the group knew each other, but not very well, and
one asked the other where she was from.  The second woman said, "I'm from a
little town in upstate New York that no one's ever heard of.  If they've
heard of it at all it's because of the hat company that's there."  And then,
trying to include me in the conversation, she turned to me and said:  "Have
you ever heard of the Susquehanna Hat Company/"  And without missing a beat,
I blurted out:  "Susquehanna Hats!!!  My brother was KILLED wearing a
Susquehanna Hat!!"    She was taken aback for a moment.  She knew the old
routine but hadn't really expected anyone else would.  Then she got it and we
both had a good laugh and everyone else in the group thought we were crazy.
And maybe we were.

Bob

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Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2006 23:13:51 -0500
From: Ronald Sayles <bogusotr@[removed];
To: Olde Tyme Radio Digest Digest <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  11-10 births/deaths
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November 10th births

11-10-1889 - Claude Rains - London, England - d. 5-30-1967
actor: "Shakesperian Circle"; "This Is War!"; "Presenting Claude Rains"
11-10-1891 - Sidney Breckner - Illinois - d. 6-25-1945
sound effects: "The Hermit's Cave"
11-10-1899 - George Storer - Champaign, IL - d. 11-4-1975
Broadcast Executive
11-10-1907 - Jane Froman - St. Louis, MO - d. 4-22-1980
singer: "Florsheim Frolic"; "Bromo Seltzer Hour"; "Gulf Musical
Playhouse"
11-10-1909 - Johnny Marks - Mount Vernon, NY - d. 9-3-1985
songwriter, lyricist: "Great Moments in Music"
11-10-1915 - Bob Shepard - d. 12-19-1993
announcer: "Pot O' Gold"; "Counterspy"; "Break the Bank"; "You Can"t
Take it with You"
11-10-1916 - Billy May - Pittsburgh, PA - d. 1-22-2004
orchestra leader: "Music Depreciation"; "Stan Freberg Show"
11-10-1918 - Jack McCoy - d. 3-18-1991
announcer: "Steve Allen Show"; "Dinah Shore Show"
11-10-1925 - Richard Burton - Pontrhydfen, South Wales - d. 8-5-1984
actor: Readings of poetry, plays and school programmes for the BBC

November 10th deaths

02-08-1868 - Evangeline Adams - d. 11-10-1932
astrologist: "Horoscope Talks"
03-04-1916 - William Alland - Delmare, DE - d. 11-10-1997
actor: "Mercury Theatre"; "Doorway to Life"; "Frontier Gentleman"
03-26-1918 - William Hardcastle - Newcastle, England - d. 11-10-1975
newscaster: "The World At One"
03-28-1910 - Jimmy Dodd - Cincinnati, OH - d. 11-10-1964
singer, songwriter: "Lifebuoy Show"; "Command Performance"; "CBS
Radio Workshop"
03-29-1924 - Jackie Vernon - NYC - d. 11-10-1987
comedian: "Bill Stern Show"
04-10-1921 - Chuck Connors - Brooklyn, NY - d. 11-10-1992
actor: "Family Theatre"
06-11-1914 - Gerald Mohr - NYC - d. 11-10-1968
actor: Philip Marlowe "Advs. of Philip Marlowe"; Jacque Monet "Our
Miss Brooks"

Ron Sayles
Milwaukee, Wisconsin
[removed]

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Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2006 23:48:40 -0500
From: John Mayer <mayer@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Burns and Allen Concede

I was surprised to see, in one of my news E-zines, the headline
"Burns and Allen Concede, Democrats Control Senate." My aging mind
had a moment of confusion as I hadn't heard anything about Gracie's
making another foray into politics; I presumed she was once again
running on the Surprise Party ticket. (Gracie had been asked, on the
Star Texaco Program, with which party she was affiliated. She
responded indignantly, "I may take a drink now and then, but I never
get affiliated.") Of course, Gracie had set her sights on the
presidency and would be unlikely to settle for any lesser office, so
we may hear from the Surprise Party again in 2008. Gracie's bid will
suffer from her being deceased, but there have certainly been plenty
of deceased voters in past elections, so maybe it's time for a
deceased candidate to represent them.

The lead-in text of the news item (from [removed]) that prompted
this letter follows.
"Burns and Allen Concede, Democrats Control Senate - Senator Conrad
Burns conceded the Montana US Senate race to Democrat Jon Tester and
Republican senator George Allen of Virginia also conceded defeat
Thursday afternoon to Democratic challenger Jim Webb, giving
Democrats control of the Senate." More about Gracie's presidential
campaign can be found at
[removed].
There's also a link there to Gracie's own instructions on winning the
presidency.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2006 23:49:16 -0500
From: John Mayer <mayer@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Ishkabibble and Poets on OTR

Well, I should have known I'd not be the first one on the digest to
note the return of Burns and Allen to politics:
"Republican leadership aides privately acknowledge that their Senate
majority was gone, but they declined to say it on the record in
deference to Burns and Allen." - Gregg Oppenheimer

I, for one, think Washington could profit from Gracie's honesty and
decency. Her command of facts and nuance, however, is already
represented there.

Kenneth Clarke responded to a query about poets on OTR with "The only
poet I can think of offhand was a character from the Allen's Alley
portion of "The Fred Allen Show" named Falstaff Openshaw,
sort of a pseudo Shakespearean type.  Another character which springs
to mind was from "Kay Kyser's Kollege of Musical Knowledge" named
Ishkabibble. Although he was more of a moronic rhymester than a
poet." I never heard the Kay Kyser show - maybe that was, incredibly,
actually before my time. But I DO recognize the name Ishkabibble. I
had originally thought it was the name of one of the Three Little
Fishies, but a replying of the 1939 song dispelled that
misimpression; apparently it is the personnel on the recording that
are being introduced, not the fish: Sully, Jenny, Ishkabibble and
Oopy-Doopy-Doop Babbit. Apparently a Harry Babbit actually DID
contribute to the performance. The song was a hit once again during
my youth in the  40's or early 50's (They just don't write 'em like
that any more; can anyone imagine the glowering bands of today doing
any kind of a humorous "novelty" song? More's the pity.) Apparently
this song hit the top of the charts in '39, a very big year for
American entertainment, especially in the movies. Anyone know if this
song was introduced on the Kollege of Musical Knowledge show, or
anything else about its personnel or history? During its revival the
it was reported locally that it had been written by a couple of
teenage girls in my hometown of Knoxville; apparently that was
totally without foundation.

Another OTR poet I'll mention was Mr. Shortfellow (IMS) who was a
frequent guest on Smilin' Ed's Gang. His pompous, stuffy delivery was
quickly brought to stammering spoonerisms by the resident
ego-deflating gremlin, Froggy.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 00:07:45 -0500
From: "RadioAZ@[removed]" <radioAZ@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  Poets

One person Ik now of who had a poetry show on radio was Ted Malone.  The
show, at least for a while, was called "Between the Bookends."  I don't know
if he himself was apoet, but he read poetry and researched listeners queries
for special poems, etc.

I have a coupleof anthologies he published and would love to hear one of his
shows sometime.

Ted (not Malone)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 08:19:36 -0500
From: <vzeo0hfk@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  John Brown

Mike Martini made mention of the pamphlet "Red Channels" in his recent
posting about John Brown. Many subscribers to the digest may not be aware the
it was a publication produced by a group of self-appointed vigilantes which
listed the names of a variety of people on radio and in the entertainment
industry whom the vigilantes considered "unpatriotic" and "disloyal." Leonard
Bernstein, William Robson and other great Americans were smeared in the
process.

The criteria for inclusion frequently consisted of such things as membership
in civil rights organizations pressing for justice for black Americans, etc.

Howard Blue

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 08:20:01 -0500
From: "A. Joseph Ross" <joe@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Otr and the election

Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2006 20:44:44 -0500
From: "RadioAZ@[removed]" <radioAZ@[removed];

Following Tuesday's elections there were several states for which I
was interested in checking results.  So I went to websites of various
newspapers in those states.

I had an interesting thought during the campaign, as I followed
Senate races around the country.  There was a radio personality
called "Senator Ford," who was not a senator, either in Congress or
in any state legislature.

And it occurred to me that, had the race gone differently Harold
Ford, the Democratic candidate in Tennessee would have been "Senator
Ford" for real.

--
A. Joseph Ross, [removed]                           [removed]
 15 Court Square, Suite 210                 Fax [removed]
Boston, MA 02108-2503           	         [removed]

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 08:24:06 -0500
From: Dixonhayes@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Re: Say Goodnight
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In a message dated 11/9/06 7:24:23 PM Central Standard Time,
[removed]@[removed] writes:

at the end of each program George Burns
would say 'Say Goodnight Gracie'  and she would simply reply 'Goodnight'.
I'd be willing to bet that this is among the most misquoted OTR references
out there.


Once during Rich Little's short-lived 1970s variety show he did a segment on
OTR featuring William Conrad and a few others, and the "Say goodnight
Gracie"/"Goodnight Gracie" gag came up. (This was not far from the time of
the NBC
50th Anniversary Special.) It makes me wonder if the gag itself was quoted
from a
parody like this one and then taken as gospel by others too young to remember
the show.

Dixon

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Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 08:26:44 -0500
From: "Glenn P.," <C128User@[removed];
To: Old-Time Radio Mailing List <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  (A Bit OT) Re: Cold War [removed]

On Thu., 09-Nov-2006, at 12:46:41pm EST (-0500 GMT),
"Mr Mark Kinsler" <Kinsler33@[removed]; posted to
[The Old Time Radio Mailing List] under the subject
of "Cold War Stuff":

 > [removed] is an irreverent web site clearly run by people who
 > weren't alive in the 1950's, or at least not alive enough to be
 > aware that there was a real threat of nuclear war. However, it
 > has a fine trove of audio public service announcements from
 > those [removed]

Including this one, which, while not from radio, ought to provoke a
fond (?) and happy (?) memory in just about everyone here:

           "[removed] deedle [removed]
            Deedle [removed] deedle [removed]
            There was a Turtle by the name of Bert.
            And Bert the Turtle was very alert;
            When danger threatened him he never got hurt --
            He knew just what to do!
            He'd Duck And Cover -- Duck And Cover!
            He did what we all must learn to do,
            [removed] and [removed] and [removed] and you --
            Duck -- And Cover!"

--Just another warm, wonderful nostalgic hit of the 1950's and 60's,
  courtesy of the the [removed] "Manhattan Project".

--Audio File:
  < [removed]~C128[removed] >

NOTE: Since this is a product of the US Government (which cannot
copyright anything), it is in the Public Domain.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 08:38:19 -0500
From: "W. Gary Wetstein" <wgaryw@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  re: "Say Goodnight, Gracie" misquote

kenneth clarke wrote:
I've heard this repeated more times than I care to remember.
I have some recordings of "The Burns and Allen Show" sponsored
by Hines (sp?) Honey and Almond Cream and at the end of each
program George Burns would say 'Say Goodnight Gracie'  and she
would simply reply 'Goodnight'.
I'd be willing to bet that this is among the most misquoted OTR
references out there.

tell me about it!!! this is a major peeve of mine.  it's akin to the
misquoted "play it again, sam" from "casablanca", but i think this
one's even worse since it wasn't a single line from a single movie, but
rather a standard show-ending exchange spanning burns and allen's
entire career.

the misquote, not spelled out explicitly by kenneth's message above,
is:
GEORGE: say goodnight, gracie.
GRACIE: goodnight, gracie.

aside from the fact that this isn't very funny, george himself said
repeatedly over the years that they *never* used this joke, and with
characteristic humility, he added that the reason was simply that he
"hadn't thought of it".

in fact, george rarely said the exact phrase "say goodnight, gracie".
he usually said "gracie, say goodnight", or simply "say goodnight".
for many years of the radio show, he didn't use any variations on the
"say goodnight, gracie" line at all.  there would simply be a closing
joke and usually george would say "goodnight, folks".  applause.  theme
music.  show over.

why the excessive nitpicking?  because this is just about the *only*
thing people remember about burns and allen these days, and it's wrong!
 because there have been no less than three books titled "say
goodnight, gracie" (one of which isn't even focussed on burns and
allen), as well as the relatively recent one-man show about george's
life.

the worst case of the misquote i caught a few weeks ago on the game
show network, which reruns "who wants to be a millionaire?" every
night.  as anyone who watches the show knows, the $32,000 question is
the biggie, and on this particular episode, the question was:

Q: In the popular Burns and Allen routine, this was Gracie's answer to
George's "Say, Goodnight, Gracie".
A: Goodnight, Gracie
B: Goodnight, everyone
C: Goodnight, America
D: Goodnight, folks.

the answer they wanted-- which fortunately is what the contestant
answered-- is the oft-misquoted choice A.  what a lawsuit they could
have had on their hands if he'd answered "wrong".  i was quite
irrationally upset over this for several hours. . .

even aside from the misquote, this exchange could hardly be properly
called a "popular routine", but rather was the apochryphal closing of
their broadcasts.  anyone who knows anything about comedy knows that a
ROUTINE is an extended riff on a comic idea, like "who's on first" or
the jack benny "si-sy" routine.  saying goodnight is hardly a
*routine*.  calling it a routine actually undermines the very point of
the exchange, which was to end on a sincere note of direct
communication with the audience, not to go off with some socko big
laugh (as if "goodnight, gracie" would be a socko laugh in any event).

this whole thing has bothered me for years, especially when i used to
believe that george NEVER said "say goodnight, gracie".  but i have
since noticed at least one early live TV program where he phrases it
this way.  but trust me, after having reviewed many, many, many shows
looking specifically for this line, he didn't say it often,  not by a
long shot.  and of course, gracie never answered "goodnight, gracie."

regards,
wgw

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 08:38:26 -0500
From: Charlie Summers <charlie@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Re: Say Goodnight

At 2:54 AM -0500 11/10/06, Dixonhayes@[removed] is rumored to have typed:

It makes me wonder if the gag itself was quoted from a
parody like this one and then taken as gospel by others too young to
remember
the show.

   My assumption has always been it came from a mental corruption of Burns
and Allen with Rowan and Martin. The latter duo ended each episode of
"Laugh-In" with the exchange, "Say goodnight, [removed]" "Goodnight, [removed]"
Highly popularized, and close enough that people's memory blurs the two
together.

   (I read somewhere that George commented he would have used the joke, but
he never thought of it. Can't remember the citation, though, so take it with
a grain of salt or two.)

         Charlie

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 11:18:40 -0500
From: "Michael J. Hayde" <michaelhayde@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Re: John Brown, blacklisted

I sent the following off-list to Martin Grams Jr., and he asked me to post it
to the Digest.  I have no desire to put Charlie, or myself, through more pain
due to a highly-charged topic, so I'll leave it to him to decide whether it
warrants inclusion:

Martin:

You wrote:

It was suspected that members of the Hollywood elite were leaning toward
Communism
and as a result, had the book NOT been published, someone other than
McCarthy would
have begun a witchhunt through Hollywood.

Radio actors, producers, directors, writers, etc. found it difficult to get
a job once the book went public, until they cleared their names, most often
by testifying in McCarthy's hearings.  Then they went back to work.

Most of your post was accurate, but the above passage is completely false.

1) McCarthy had NOTHING to do with "Red Channels," or The House Un-American
Activities Committee (HUAC) Hearings, or the "Hollywood Ten" blacklist, or
ANYTHING involving alleged communism in the film, radio & TV industries.  His
sole target, for better or worse, was suspected Communists working in
government positions. Specifically, those working in the government with
security clearances and/or access to classified information.

2) "Red Channels" was basically a shakedown operation.  Writers and
performers were "cleared" by paying a fee to an official who "researched the
allegations and determined their veracity."  Of course, what really happened
was that, upon receipt of payment, these "officials" simply took the
performer's name off the blacklist.  Naturally, most performers refused to
play along, especially since their alleged "subversive activities" were
nothing more than Union activism, or contributions to liberal (and quite
legal) causes - and, as you noted, often the "evidence" was even flimsier
than that.  A few - Jack Gilford, most famously - fought back tooth and nail,
and eventually beat the bullies down.  And others - Philip Loeb, most
famously - saw only a more tragic solution.

Somehow, "McCarthyism" has become a term to describe the entire "Red Menace"
era and all its consequences, simply because McCarthy was the most visible
figure during that period, plus careless historians have painted that picture
over the years.  Naturally, it could reasonably be argued that the Senator's
prominence (and popularity - right up to 1954, when it all came crashing
down, McCarthy had approval ratings that President Bush can only dream about)
gave impetus to other anti-communist crusades (both honest and dishonest),
including the one that maintained "Red Channels."  And for what it's worth,
Arthur Herman's "Joseph McCarthy: Reexamining the Life and Legacy of
America's Most Hated Senator" concludes that, for all McCarthy's questionable
tactics, his basic thesis was correct. Time and declassified Soviet documents
have since proved that there were indeed communist spies on our nation's
payroll.

Michael

--------------------------------
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