Subject: [removed] Digest V2003 #453
From: <[removed]@[removed]>
Date: 12/22/2003 7:05 AM
To: <[removed]@[removed];

------------------------------


                            The Old-Time Radio Digest!
                              Volume 2003 : Issue 453
                         A Part of the [removed]!
                                 ISSN: 1533-9289


                                 Today's Topics:

  Words and Values                      [ "Irene Heinstein" <IreneTH@[removed] ]
  12-22 births/deaths                   [ Ron Sayles <bogusotr@[removed]; ]
  Charles Herrold                       [ George Aust <austhaus1@[removed] ]
  Dickens On Radio                      [ "John Eccles, Jr." <jeccles@earthli ]
  Re:Gildersleeve and "make love"       [ Ed Foster <erfoster@[removed]; ]
  DICKENS on OTR                        [ "mike kerezman" <philipmarlowe@cfai ]
  Send that kid to camp!!!              [ "MICHAEL BIEL" <mbiel@[removed]; ]
  #@$$#@! &%&%@*$$!                     [ "Stephen A Kallis, Jr." <skallisjr@ ]
  Re: OTR Profanity, What have we lear  [ Joe Mackey <joemackey108@[removed] ]
  Dickens on the Radio                  [ <welsa@[removed]; ]
  Re: A&A Audition Recordings           [ Elizabeth McLeod <lizmcl@[removed] ]
  Tomart's Radio Premium Price Guide    [ "Charles Sexton" <csexton@[removed] ]
  Cpt Midnight Cryptological Premiums   [ "Dennis Mansker" <dennis@[removed] ]
  The other Walton elder                [ MGiorgio1@[removed] ]
  Today in radio history                [ Joe Mackey <joemackey108@[removed] ]

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2003 15:33:15 -0500
From: "Irene Heinstein" <IreneTH@[removed];
To: "OTR" <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  Words and Values

Some personal feelings and comments about the discussion thread regarding
language, family values, and the like.  I just read about 8 newsletters in a
row and felt like I wanted to say something on the subject.

I was born in 1938 and like most everyone else was a movie addict as well as
a radio addict.   I've often said that the Hollywood ending might have
contributed to some of my unrealistically naive ideas and expectations about
life, which caused me some problems as I grew older and more 'worldly.'
Life wasn't as simple or straightforward as I thought.  And, more
importantly, one couldn't count on always being rewarded for doing the right
thing.

That doesn't take away from my enjoyment retroactively or currently,
however.  I choose to view all those old movies as 'entertainment', not
truth and still remember them fondly and enjoy them as much when I watch
them again, only a little wiser now.

The same is true about radio.   I just wish I had known a little more about
how life was for many other people, not just those lucky ones in the movies,
and known that it didn't always turn out all right, and that people didn't
always do the right things for other people, and that  there were a lot of
people out there for whom life was hard, and without much promise of getting
better.   And while prayer was a good thing it could not always do enough to
offset reality.

We seem to forget that the images sent out over the airwaves and in the
films were of a select group of people for the most part,  what might be
called the target audience of the times.   One of the most religious groups
of people were southern Blacks and their religion spoke of a beautiful
afterlife a lot, where their peity would be rewarded because it was hard for
them to imagine a better life in the segregated South, which made their
daily life harsh without the opportunities for growth and prosperity that
the white population enjoyed.

I think there has been a great deal of anecdotal comment on this subject.
Somehow, if one's parents or grandparents had a particular experience it is
being projected on too large a population.    This always leads in my
opinion to a narrow, limited view of life which involves too much judgment
and not enough compassion.

Elizabeth was talking about a reality in her family which countered many of
the images we've projected on the past.   Just because one's family did not
have that experience does not make her experience invalid or singular.  It's
called opening one's mind to a broader reality.

As a sidebar to this discussion:  this same use of anecdotal material still
leads many people to think that because they were able to do x anyone should
be.    My parents were immigrants from Greece and my father did well.    He
never assumed everyone could do exactly what he did and never judged them on
that basis.   I adopted his understanding on that subject.

We did not cuss in my family however as kids we did say hell and damn to
each other.  And we were all good kids, living in a relatively affluent,
conservative,  suburban  community.

   When I was attending catechism class the Sister actually told us that
saying damn or hell was not cursing unless we damned someone or told someone
to go to hell.   We took her words to heart and freely said damn and hell by
themselves, but not at home since parents would probably not buy her
position even if she was a nun  :))  And this was in the 50s in the
conservative diocese of Cardinal Spellman where we left mass on Sunday and
took home the latest list of books and films we shouldn't see (which of
course made us very interested in seeing them).

I entered college in 1956 at Ohio Wesleyan University in Delaware, Ohio
which had an affiliation with the Methodist Church.   I was surprised to
find that the humor there often consisted of blasphemous joking followed
with comments about being struck down by lightning with a dramatic
protective gesture, with eyes lifted toward Heaven.

I don't care for excessive use of hard, harsh language and wish it wasn't so
prevalent and overused but it is true to life for very many people.   The
Sopranos is an excellent program and I have learned to block out the F word
that is so prevalent in the dialogue because there is so much quality to the
drama itself.

I also don't care for excessive violence.    I recently saw 'The Last
Samurai' which I enjoyed for the most part but was very uncomfortable with
the violence and resorted to the peeking through my fingers approach to
violent or scary scenes of my youth.

 Interestingly,  I've heard more about language then violence in this
discussion.   I do subscribe to the gratuitous concept regarding language,
sex and violence in films.    To the extent that it is necessary to the
reality I don't oppose it, but to suggest it should not be used at all is to
suggest that only idealized pictures of life should be produced.    I enjoy
inspirational shows like 'Touched by an Angel' but there must also be a
place for more reality-based entertainment and even if one makes a personal
choice to not view such entertainment I would hope that they realize it's a
personal choice and doesn't need to be a judgment on society, and a wish for
the sanitized 'good old days' when ignorance was bliss.

One last soapbox message.  Religion was different when I was a kid.
Everyone went to church and we had many denominations but no one judged the
beliefs of others nor attempted to impose them on others.   This is a big
change now.   I used to view religion as a wholly positive influence on
people and a necessary part of their life.   I don't feel the same in the
current world where many religious people not only judge intolerantly, but
wish to make a multi-cultural population conform to their beliefs.   So my
wishes for the good old days are for the days when religion was about doing
good and caring for those in need, not judging and condemning.

When I've been down and feeling out of sorts with reality I find the
simplicity of uncomplicated stories comforting, because I want to be
comforted  and take a break from reality for a while, but I could never
exist with a full diet of that idealized reality.   I find many of the
Family Theater stories too saccharine and simplistic for my taste but enjoy
some of them.

As for 'sacre bleu' it is an interjection and not translatable by the actual
meaning of those words.   It actually means 'Holy Jesus' or 'Holy God' or
even 'Holy Cow' in that context.   It is still in active use.

A friend of mine in high school, a very mischievous guy, [now in the upper
echelons of the Episcopal Church in Chicago!] found out that the Greek word
for s**t was 'Skata', circulated that word among our friends at school and
we all enjoyed our private little joke, and the fact that we were swearing
and no one knew it.   [Mine was the only Greek family in town so it was
assumed we wouldn't get caught so long as we didn't say it around my
parents.  :))]

Anyway, enough.

Happy holidays to all of you.   Unfortunately my husband had a stroke last
Sunday but his prognosis for full recovery is excellent.  But watching my
children and extended family pull together and take bedside shifts, holding
my husband's hand, reassuring and loving him, made me so proud and
reinforced my faith in my family and the way we chose to raise them out here
in Berkeley.

-Irene

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2003 15:33:57 -0500
From: Ron Sayles <bogusotr@[removed];
To: Olde Tyme Radio List <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  12-22 births/deaths

December 22nd births

12-22-1885 - Deems Taylor - NYC - d. 7-3-1966
commentator: "Deems Taylor Music Series"; "Prudential Family Hour"; "RCA
Victor Show"
12-22-1901 - Andre Kostelanetz - St. Petersburg, Russia - d. 1-13-1980
conductor: "Chesterfield Hour"; "Light Up Time"; "Pause That Refreshes"
12-22-1907 - Dame Peggy Ashcroft - London, England - d. 6-14-1991
actress: BBC "Queen Victoria"
12-22-1917 - Gene Rayburn - Christopher, IL (R: Chicago, IL)
announcer, comedian: "Rayburn and Finch"
12-22-1924 - Ruth Roman - Boston, MA - d. 9-9-1999
actress: "Lux Radio Theatre"; "Hollywood Sound Stage"

December 22nd deaths

01-08-1911 - Butterfly McQueen - Tampa, FL - d. 12-22-1995
actress: Oriole "Beulah"; Butterfly "Jack Benny Program"
03-25-1887 - Raymond Gram Swing - Cortland, NY - d. 12-22-1968
commentator: "Voice of America"
05-24-1902 - Wilbur Hatch - Moken, IL - d. 12-22-1969
conductor: "Our Miss Brooks"; "Gateway to Hollywood"; "Screen Guild Theatre"
08-27-1901 - Al Ritz - Newark, NJ - d. 12-22-1965
comedian: (The Ritz Brothers) "Hollywood Hotel"
09-05-1907 - Jimmy Wallington - Rochester, NY - d. 12-22-1972
announcer: "Chase & Sanborn Hour"; "Texaco Town/Star Theatre"; "Alan Young
Show"
12-17-1919 - Edward "Shrimp" Wragge - NYC - d. 12-22-1992
actor: "Gold Spot Pal"

Ron Sayles
Milwaukee, Wisconsin

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2003 17:07:59 -0500
From: George Aust <austhaus1@[removed];
To: OTR Digest <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  Charles Herrold

I've just finished reading the new book "Charles Herrold,
Inventor of Radio Broadcasting" by Gordon Greb and Mike Adams.
I enjoyed it very much and it seems to make a very strong
case for Herrold in San Jose California, being the first
broadcasting station in the world. Beginning in 1909
experimentally and then in 1912 providing regularly scheduled
programing of talk, news, and music (phonograph records and
occasional live music) and even a very early form of
advertising up to WWI, and then again after goverment allowed
radio stations back on air following war.
Herrold's station KQW still exists as KCBS in San Francisco. I
think this book blows away all the claims by other stations,
such as KDKA, away at least as far as being first to
broadcast a regularly scheduled program goes.

George Aust

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2003 17:08:05 -0500
From: "John Eccles, Jr." <jeccles@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  Dickens On Radio

There was also a one-hour adaptation of "David Copperfield" performed on
Theatre Guild On The Air with Richard Burton, Cyril Ritchard, and Boris
Karloff broadcast 12/24/50.

John Eccles, Jr.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2003 17:09:05 -0500
From: Ed Foster <erfoster@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Re:Gildersleeve and "make love"

Rich Weil wrote

In the episode
Leroy mentions to Gildy that they may be making love and at one point Gildy,
who is protective of his sister-in-law, asks Judge Hooker if they have made
love. By today's standards I take making love to mean sexual intercourse. In
those relatively prudish times it seems out of line that they would be so
forward to discuss intercourse so openly, so I was wondering if it meant
something different back then? Perhaps just smooching?

Take a look at the lyrics to the Jo Stafford song "Make Love to Me"
from 1954 [removed]
and you'll get a pretty good Idea of what "making love" meant in
those days.  Smooching, but not sex.  Sometime between then (or even
after 1960 when the movie "Let's Make Love" came out) and now the
meaning changed, but I don't know when and I've lived through it.
--
Ed Foster
erfoster@[removed]

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2003 17:09:18 -0500
From: "mike kerezman" <philipmarlowe@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  DICKENS on OTR

A good source to look is the Mercury Theater / Cambell Playhouse. I believe
Orson Welles did several adaptations of Charles Dickens including

TALE OF TWO CITIES
THE PICKWICK PAPERS

These are available at [removed]

Also I would check out LUX RADIO THEATER which I believe did some
adaptations of film adaptations of Dickens work.

Mike Kerezman
Macomb, Ok

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2003 17:10:05 -0500
From: "MICHAEL BIEL" <mbiel@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Send that kid to camp!!!

From: Doug Berryhill <fibbermac@[removed];
I've decided to call these two camps "The Priggish Prudes"
and "The Sons of Sea-Cooks".  . . .  I guess I'll call camp
Number Three "The Old Fools", who foolish think that maybe
someday Camps One and Two will peacefully co-exist.
-FIBBERMAC-

Then, of course, there is also Kamp Kee-Mo-Sah-Bee.

[removed] I'd like to wish a very Merry Christmas to all you Digesters
out there in Camp Three,...also to those of you in Camps One
and Two who aren't offended by such a greeting. :)

At the risk of opening the rest of this can of worms, let me mention that
you might also want to wish some of us campers a Happy Chanukah.  And
perhaps also Kwanza and Eids.  Festivus, anyone?

Michael (Camp To-Ho-Ne) Biel  mbiel@[removed]

[removed]  While typing out the name of Kamp Kee-Mo-Sah-Bee (which really did
exist, Jim Jewell's father in law ran it from 1911 to 1940) I realized that
our university's retired soccer coach, who is a neighbor of mine, is
Mohammed Sabie.  I'll have to ask Mo if he has their phone listed in his
wife's name because he was tired of prank calls asking him if he had a key!

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2003 19:52:54 -0500
From: "Stephen A Kallis, Jr." <skallisjr@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  #@$$#@!  &%&%@*$$!

Doug Berryhill, speaking of epithetic language, differentiates,

Digest members appear to belong to either one of two camps on this
issue.
<snip>
You may be a "The Priggish Prude" if your grandfather never allowed cursing
under his roof. But if your grandfather swore like a pirate, you may be a
"Son of a Sea-Cook".
<snip>
I guess there is a third camp you may fall into. If you think that
debates over censorship, religion/religious programing, poverty/standard
of living issues, and prejudice were being hotly debated throughout the
golden age of radio, then you may fall into this third catagory. Camp
Number Three consists of those of us in the hobby who actually listen to
these programs and take them at face value.

There may be a fourth category: those of us who listened to the
broadcasts when they were first aired, and took them as they came.  This
would be akin to Group Three, but different in that when we hear old
broadcasts again, we tend to let the nostalgia kick in.  I received a
private communication from a Digest contributor speculating on what
Chester A. Reilly would say today in lieu of "What a revoltin'
development this is!"   While I provided him with a salty alternative to
a suggested expression, equally salty, I believe that Reilly probably
would stick with his original expression, given his associates.  On the
other hand, I can see far different linguistics on a modernized Pat Novak
For Hire.

Actually, radio dialogue at its best is pretty artificial anyway.  "Oh.
A gun.  Do you think that will stop me?" .Good radio dialogue, but "Do
you think _that_ will stop me?" would be the closest real-life
equivalent.  So the expectation that a modern equivalent would be more
"realistic" by adding a bit of salt to the mix is to miss the point.

Stephen A. Kallis, Jr.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2003 19:53:07 -0500
From: Joe Mackey <joemackey108@[removed];
To: otrd <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  Re: OTR Profanity, What have we learned?

   Doug Berryhill wrote --

 >  You may be a "The Priggish Prude"

   Mark me solidly in that corner.  :)
   Joe (proud to be a PP)  [Can I write that in a family forum?] <g>

--
Visit my homepage:  [removed]~[removed]

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2003 19:56:25 -0500
From: <welsa@[removed];
To: "OTR Digest" <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  Dickens on the Radio

Let us not forget that not only were Dickens stories on the radio, but in
one instance I know of, Dickens himself was a character.  On the Cape Cod
Mystery series (latter day radio) there is a story called The Case of the
Murdered Miser.  Dickens plays a young reporter at a murder trial.  No, I
won't give any more plot info.

Ted

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2003 19:58:13 -0500
From: Elizabeth McLeod <lizmcl@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  Re: A&A Audition Recordings

On 12/21/03 3:49 PM [removed]@[removed] wrote:

To my surprise, there
was an 11-minute selection called "Auditions for
30-minute show" (1943. The candidates for the
principal roles were not Freeman Gosden and Charles
Corell but Fred Carter and Stanley Green, then Emory
Richardson and Alvin Childress. What, I wonder, was
that all about?

These are incorrectly-dated voice test recordings from 1949, when casting
was in progress for the A&A television series. Since a necessary element
of casting the program was to find actors who not only looked the parts
but who could closely duplicate Correll and Gosden's radio voices,
hundreds of recordings like these were made during the summer and fall of
1949. Alvin Childress, who had come to Correll and Gosden's attention for
his work with the American Negro Theatre, was the first performer hired
for the TV series when casting began, and spent much of 1949-50 aiding in
the search for actors to fill out other roles in the series.

Elizabeth

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2003 21:03:30 -0500
From: "Charles Sexton" <csexton@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  Tomart's Radio Premium Price Guide
X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative
X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain

The "Tomart Price Guide to Radio Premium and Cereal Box Collectibles" is still
available directly from the publisher.  Log on to [removed] and check
their mail order lists of books available.  Price is $[removed]  Even though its
a 13 year old book now, it's still the best ever published on the subject.
You won't be disappointed!

Charles Sexton

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  ***                  as the sender intended.                   ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 00:11:36 -0500
From: "Dennis Mansker" <dennis@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  Cpt Midnight Cryptological Premiums

Ah, how distinctly I recall saving my Ovaltine seals until I had the
requisite number (what that was I don't remember), then waiting what seemed
like weeks for my decoder to arrive. Naturally it arrived on a Monday, so I
had to wait until the following Saturday to get my secret message from Capt
Midnight.
Finally, after a week of torture, it was here! Saturday! I waited on pins
and needles, a number two pencil in my eight-year-old hand and a Big Chief
tablet on my lap, through the tedious and predictable plot, and finally it
was there! This week's secret message!
I copied it down carefully and then I began to apply the secret decoder to
it. The letters began to fall into place, inexorably, one after another,
until finally it was done. I had it, the secret [removed]
"Be sure to drink Ovaltine every day"...
What??? THAT was it??? I went through all of this for [removed]
I was incensed. I wanted a real secret message, one that none of my friend
would have without getting their own decoder. Instead I got a plug for
Ovaltine. I didn't even really LIKE Ovaltine.
Later I told my father about my disappointment. His response? "Life isn't
fair, kid. Get used to it."

Dennis Mansker

The Mansker Chronicles: [removed]
Chairborne Ranger, featuring A Bad Attitude: A Novel from the Vietnam War:
[removed]

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 02:01:24 -0500
From: MGiorgio1@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  The other Walton elder
X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative
X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain

Hi all,

The discussion of the Depression (I promise, this isn't a post on that) and
the Waltons, along with Howard Blue's mention of Will Geer's extensive radio
work, prompts me to ask if anyone knows of any radio work done by Geer's TV
wife, Ellen Corby.  I would think that, since she was an Oscar nominated
actress
(Supporting Actress, I Remember Mama) and appeared in many films of the era,
that some radio program somewhere must have featured her, but so far I've
found
nothing.  Does anyone know of any appearances?

Thanks in advance, and happy holidays,
Michael Giorgio
Waukesha, WI

  *** This message was altered by the server, and may not appear ***
  ***                  as the sender intended.                   ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 08:59:20 -0500
From: Joe Mackey <joemackey108@[removed];
To: otrd <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  Today in radio history

 From Those Were The Days --

1920 - WEAF, in New York City, aired the first broadcast of a prize
fight from ringside. The fight was broadcast from Madison Square Garden
where Joe Lynch defeated Peter Herman to retain the bantamweight title.
Bantamweights top the scales at 118 pounds. Just think, either of those
boxers could have been mistaken for the microphone stand.

1922 - WEAF once again proved to be the pillar of radio promotion. This
time they broadcast radio's first double wedding ceremony. 4,000
spectators watched as the two couples exchanged vows at Grand Central
Palace. The broadcast was made in conjunction with the American Radio
Exposition. The couples each got $100; a hefty sum in 1922.

Joe

--
Visit my homepage:  [removed]~[removed]

--------------------------------
End of [removed] Digest V2003 Issue #453
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