------------------------------
The Old-Time Radio Digest!
Volume 2003 : Issue 168
A Part of the [removed]!
ISSN: 1533-9289
Today's Topics:
the future of the hobby [ "Walden Hughes" <hughes1@[removed]; ]
Norman Corwin [ "Walden Hughes" <hughes1@[removed]; ]
Patriots Day Birth Dates [ Ron Sayles <bogusotr@[removed]; ]
Black sheep perspective of the Cincy [ Doug Berryhill <fibbermac@[removed] ]
Old Time Radio Hobby and mp3s [ Jim Widner <jwidner@[removed]; ]
MP3 [ "Kurt E. Yount" <blsmass@[removed]; ]
Hal Stone, Beware [ steve mcguffin <earl22002@[removed] ]
Jack Benny books [ JackBenny@[removed] ]
Have Gun Will Travel [ "Martin Grams, Jr." <mmargrajr@hotm ]
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 00:13:57 -0400
From: "Walden Hughes" <hughes1@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: the future of the hobby
Happy Easter everybody, I feel very good for the future of the Old Time
Radio hobby. I imagine it will take different shape over the years that
will be fun to follow. I agree that CD will take over until a new recording
choice take over. The fan base will be good too. In fact the last time I
heard about KNX rating for the Drama hour which feature old time radio from
9 PM to 10 PM ever night in [removed] That it is the highest rank show during it
time slot for all ages. I think radio convention will go through changes.
I think we will see more research panels. I believe that internet has
brought many new fans to the hobby. Hosting a three nightly live show. I
get good response for email question. I hope people consider donating there
collection to Old Time Radio Clubs. This is the best way for future fans to
hear the materials. Many library just do not have the resources for
audience to enjoy the material. I know Peter Ford Glenn Ford son know some
very sad stories about what has happen to his mom collection after she
donated her material to an [removed] His mom was the famous dance Eleanor
Powell. I think SPERDVAC has the best chance of being here for the fan in
the long run. They have a large reserve in cash, and own there building out
right to store material. So if you have one of a kind items consider
SPERDVAC. Contact Dan at SPeRDVAC@[removed] I like to collect radio show and
personalities that I am interest in, but I also collect allot of interviews
too, I think this is important in order to share with people now and in the
future. I would like to know what kinds of show does exist, but is not the
general collector hands. If you would like to drop me a private email I
would enjoy hearing from you about that topic. I notice for example I have
a copy of a show called Sunday Down South which was on WSM from 6-20-54 with
Kitty Kallen. Take care,
Walden Hughes cur
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 00:14:18 -0400
From: "Walden Hughes" <hughes1@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: Norman Corwin
Hi Everybody, has any one put together a list of Norman Corwin radio shows
that is available to collectors? I have now idea how many are around but I
have a feeling that is a small number. Frank Bresee and I will feature
Norman Corwin on our Friday night show of 5-2-03 on Yesterday USA, and if
Norman schedule will allow, we will try to have him live via telephone that
night. Norman Will be 93 on Saturday 5-3-03, but his older brother is coming
down from Washington to pay him a visit around those days. Norman dad live
to a 110 years old, and Norman is still writing and teaching at USC. Take
care,
Walden Hughes.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 00:14:24 -0400
From: Ron Sayles <bogusotr@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: Patriots Day Birth Dates
If you born on the 21st of April, you share your birthday with:
04-21-1907 - Beatrice Kay - The Bronx, NY - d. 11-8-1986
04-21-1911 - Leonard Warren - The Bronx, NY - d. 3-4-1960
04-21-1915 - Anthony Quinn - Chihauha, Mexico - d. 6-3-2001
04-21-1932 - Elaine May - Philadelphia, PA
04-21-1935 - Charles Grodin - Pittsburgh, PA
Ron Sayles
Milwaukee, Wisconsin
Make your day, listen to an Olde Tyme Radio Program
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 00:15:36 -0400
From: Doug Berryhill <fibbermac@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Black sheep perspective of the CincyCon.
As a first timer to this year's OTR convention in
Cincy, I'd like to thank Mr. Burchett and his whole
team who labored hard to provide us all with an
enjoyable weekend of nostalgia and OTR.
However, having said that, I find myself wondering if
I'll make the effort to attend again. In the family
reunion atmosphere that was found there (which is a
remarkable acheivement Mr. Burchett has pulled off), I
found myself feeling like the black sheep of the
family. How does one become a black sheep in this
family? By collecting OTR in MP3 format. The brochure
for this year's convention read, "53 DEALER TABLES
FILLED WITH OLD RADIO SHOWS ON CASSETTES, CD'S &
MP3'[removed]", but for all the time I spent haunting the
dealer's room, I was hard pressed to find anything
resembling an MP3 old time radio recording. Although
this seemed a bit odd to me, I didn't let it interfere
with my enjoyment of the various events, like the OTR
recreations and getting to meet Hal Stone in person
(bought his book and loved it, by the way). But then
came the banquet and Mr. Ramlow's condescending remark
about MP3's which was mentioned earlier on this list.
No one had appeared to take offence to the numerous
copyright violations easily spotted at table after
table in the dealer's room, but MP3's were another
matter. I had thought that MP3 collectors such as
myself (and the other 2 friends who attended with me)
were invited guests. It turns out that we seem to have
been interlopers,... like the family "black sheep" who
unexpectedly arrives at a family reunion. In short
order, Mr. Ramlow had received two seperate awards for
his contributions to the hobby. But it was painfully
obvious that it wasn't my hobby being celebrated, it
was theirs',... and I was intruding (or so I felt).
Is this sour grapes from a disgruntled attendee? Not
at all. Overall, I had a delightful time and I have no
regrets for traveling the 800+ miles to be there.
Accomodations were great (apparently much better than
the year before). But I wanted this point of view to
be heard. You see, of the three of us in my party who
attended this year, two of us were in our early 40's
and one was in his 50's. As I looked around from time
to time, I noticed that we were the young folks in the
crowd. There were exceptions, like Martin Grams of
course, but the large majority of those in attendance
were old enough to remember OTR when it was originally
broadcast. Like it or hate it, MP3 is here to stay
(until it gets replaced by the next "better" format to
come down the pike) and MP3 is usually the format of
choice amongst the newer/younger collctors. If the
reel-to-reel and casette collectors of OTR can't come
to grips with this reality, they will become
increasingly marginalized until finally they become
extinct. And if the OTR conventions won't embrace
newer formats, can they be far behind?
In the words of that great philosopher Rodney King,...
"Can't we all just get along?"
-FIBBERMAC-
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 00:16:43 -0400
From: Jim Widner <jwidner@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Old Time Radio Hobby and mp3s
X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from text/html
I have been trying to stay out of this discussion but recently Kermyt
Anderson's question on the future of the hobby prodded me to add my two
cents.
Kermyt says:
I get the impression that most of the people on this list, and most of
the people at conventions, are old enough to remember listening to OTR
firsthand, as children or young adults.
Not so, Kermyt, though there are certainly a number who are old enough. I
was of the tv generation and remember listening to some radio drama in
the late fifties, but for me television was my primary medium of
attention. I go to a lot of conventions and I see a mix crowd, though
there certainly is an attendance jump from the number older than 30
compared to those younger. I do see some of that changing as I believe I
see more people younger than 30 attending than I did when I first started
going to the conventions.
What has changed the hobby with regard to those who are younger has been,
of course, the Internet and the web. When I put up my radio-related web
pages in 1995, there were about two or three of us - Lou Genco's Old Time
Radio Pages and Jerry Haendiges' Vintage Radio. Within a couple of years
there were many more and gradually the number of "collector's" pages
skyrocketed with most offering free copies of their shows for download.
The mix between mp3 and realaudio was about the same at that time. That
changed fast as the Napster generation discovered old time radio. There
was a lot of mp3 encoding of mixed quality with many shows of lower
bitrates and the quality of the shows not very good. But, as you imply,
it brought a lot more people to the hobby.
The problem is that many of those were never fully aware in the beginning
of the blood, sweat and money that had been given to bring those shows to
light. Much of that was through very dedicated collectors who
supplemented that hobby by selling copies of what they obtained. Sure
there were some who simply traded others as copies were obtained. But
there were enough in the hobby who were paying money for copies of a good
quality generation to continue to sustain the hunt for new material.
There were also organizations such as SPERDVAC which obtained
transcriptions from those in the industry and Dave Goldin who sold his
copies via Radio Yesteryear.
Occasionally there were some setbacks as some felt they had a good thing
going with certain radio series such as The Shadow and attempted to
prevent others from selling copies claiming to have exclusive rights.
Sometimes they did, but sometimes they were proven wrong. There were a
couple who rose to the level of making a professional business out of the
hobby by paying for exclusive distribution rights and spending lots to
clean up the copies, then spending large amounts for marketing and
distribution. I recall at one time Radio Spirits under Carl Amari listed
as pulling in revenues of over $3 million a year - that's revenue not
profit.
But the Internet and Napster changed all of that. Suddenly copies were
appearing faster than anyone could imagine - whole runs of shows, etc.
for free download in mp3 format. And those who were able to sustain the
cost of their search for rare or low generation copies of programs could
not re-coup their costs. And so they either stopped or held onto the
material as part of their personal collection, or unless there was a way
to get the costs back.
One way not too long ago was when a number of Fu Manchu transcriptions
were discovered. The person wanted a quantity of money to release them.
One dealer came forward and purchased them. How he tried to recover some
of the cost was to hold onto them until he had received enough
"subscribers" who were willing to pay for digitized copies on CD. I never
knew if that person recovered his expense, but even if he did, the value
of the product dropped once it hit general circulation because now those
programs are appearing on the Internet free in mp3 format.
Perhaps that is ok, but to the person who invested in being able to make
them available, what drives him to spending money to find other rare
recordings?
So as to the future of the hobby - I don't think reel and cassette will
die out for a long, long time. But I do agree that there will be fewer
and fewer of those collectors. I think the Internet and the mp3 programs
have been a boon to adding new people to the hobby. But what I don't see
are very many who are actively introducing new programs or searching for
rare recordings. There are a few organizations such as First Generation
Archives, but even they need to recover their costs. It would be hard if
in fact those very copies are appearing on the Internet for free download
so soon that it becomes difficult to sustain their business.
* ********
otrdigest@[removed] asked if a dealer would sell him 1600 Lum & Abner
shows on cassette for $21. Of course not. But keep in mind that those
1600 shows started out from collectors who could only collect them on
reel or cassette. Various people spent the money over time for those
copies on cassette or reel which sustained the cost of their having been
placed into circulation in the first place. Later, probably someone
gradually gathered up the shows as they appeared in mp3 format. That cost
them probably nothing or very little. When the run of shows was fairly
complete or reached that 1600 number, the person (who paid very little or
nothing for them) burns them all to a CD and sells them for $21.
You forget that person selling those shows for $21 is making virtually
pure profit because he was probably not the person who obtained the
original copies and encoded them. Sure, it's easy for him to sell the
shows at that price!
I think you need to look at some of the dealers who are getting original
transcription discs, encoding them at a high quality, then selling them.
To sell 1600 shows at this quality dealers are charging more likely $120
and up.
Jim Widner (jwidner@[removed])
*** This message was altered by the server, and may not appear ***
*** as the sender intended. ***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 00:17:11 -0400
From: "Kurt E. Yount" <blsmass@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: MP3
I am a blind person and have been listening to OTR since the 70s. I have
recently discovered MP3 OTR. I used to be a member of SPERDVAC and
borrowed quite a few of their tapes etc. One of my projects in life for
a number of years was to collect the entire run of suspense. I worked on
this for years with only modest success. Recently I bought on MP3 a
large part of the run for I think $50. I have a [removed] in English and am a
fan of CBS Radio Workshop and Columbia Workshop. However, from listening
to the tapes and not having seen the logs I was shocked to find out how
much I hadn't heard when I bought some MP3 disks. Since reel to reel
tape is getting harder and harder to get and I never really trusted
cassettes I have been really shocked at the numerous shows that you can
even get on one MP3 and how many shows you can carry around in very
little space. I know that the prices of audio CDs with OTR is still
quite high, because it has to be, but to my way of thinking the
possibilities of MP3 saving the hobby are great, since they are so easy
to store. As a relatively poor person, of course I am interested in free
downloads, but the MP3 has done more to open the hobby to new listeners
than anything else I know, since acquiring a complete run of a series is
possible at a price most of us can afford. Please keep up the good work.
Anybody working with MP3 is doing a great service. As for you people
with reel to reel and casssettes, keep up that work too, but be aware
that your collection will probably end up on MP3 some time. If it does,
it will be ever so much easier to deal with in terms of space etc. Kurt
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 00:17:39 -0400
From: steve mcguffin <earl22002@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Hal Stone, Beware
Sorry that it took me so long to warn you, Mr. Stone,
but I just thought you should be on your toes. My
mother (age 64) called and ordered your book, Relax,
Archie, Relax for me for Christmas. She was quite
taken with you. She made a point of telling me
several times how nice you were on the phone, how
charming, etc. So, my father (age 70) was getting
pretty ticked off about all of this, until I pointed
out to him that you are both fellow Air Force
veterans. That may have saved you, at least
temorarily.
Seriously, folks, Hal's book is quite entertaining, I
finished it in less than 48 hours, even amongst the
hustle and bustle of Christmas. And, just as a
reminder, in case anyone out there hasn't ordered
their copy yet, you can do so by going to the
following web site:
[removed]
How's that plug, Hal? And by the way, let me also
mention that every year when my mother orders my quota
of OTR related Christmas presents, she always mentions
how nice everyone in the hobby is.
Steve
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 00:19:04 -0400
From: JackBenny@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Jack Benny books
Rob Chatlin wrote:
Can anyone recommend one Benny book over another -
mostly for factual accuracy and readability?
I've seen books by Mary and Hilliard Marks, Joan Benny, Irv Fein and
Milt Josefsburg. (sp?)
Well, it depends on what you want. Here's a once-over:
Sunday Nights at Seven (Joan/Jack Benny) - You can't get closer to Jack than
Jack himself. However, it's not necessarily the most accurate book. For
example, Jack maintains that he knew Pat O'Brien when he was in the Navy.
Pat O'Brien maintains that he didn't meet Jack until they were both in
showbiz, years after the Great Lakes Naval Station. Jack's account of
meeting Mary is very different than Mary's recollections in her own book.
Who's right? Sometimes it's hard to say. But you can't argue when Jack
talks about his own emotions, like his reverence for people like Isaac Stern.
The Jack Benny Show (Milt Josefsberg) - IMO, the most readable of the Benny
biographies. Milt adored Jack and it shows on every page. Accuracy? It
varies. There are moments when Milt seems to be covering up for Jack's
image, like declaring that Jack never, never, ever (not ever) cheated on
Mary. It's pretty well-accepted now that he did. But there's so much warmth
in this book that it's the feeling that you walk away with rather than the
distinct facts.
Jack Benny: An Intimate Biography (Irving Fein) - Probably the most accurate
Benny biography. This gives a lot of valuable detail on Jack the business
man, discussing things like the sale of Amusement Enterprises to CBS, J&M
Productions, etc. Fascinating read to be able to better understand the
mechanics behind the career.
Jack Benny (Mary Livingstone, Hilliard Marks, Marcia Borie) - Bottom of the
pack. The book is written mostly by Marcia Borie, with some interviews with
Mary, Hickey (Hilliard), Florence (Jack's sister), and others. Some unique
information because of the first-hand sources (like Florence recalling Cora
Salisbury's visit to the family home to talk Jack's parents into letting him
go on the road). Lots and lots of inaccuracies, like Hickey saying that NBC
created the three-chime tone because Jack's show would always run over and
they needed a delimiter. For an interesting time, read Mary's recollections
of meeting and re-meeting Jack, then read Jack's write-up of the same events
in his book. "He was ignoring me all night" vs. "I couldn't take my eyes off
of her".
You can also get "Jack Benny: The Radio and Television Work" from the Museum
of Television and Radio, which focuses on, well, his radio and television
shows. Not a biography, but a very nice book.
--Laura Leff
President, IJBFC
[removed]
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 00:20:31 -0400
From: "Martin Grams, Jr." <mmargrajr@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Have Gun Will Travel
MJ asked:
After listening to several episodes of "Have [removed]" the other night, we were
wondering why the radio cast was not used for the tv show? John Dehner
certainly was excellent on other shows on tv, and had a very good voice for
the radio which was also an asset on tv, as well as "looking the part". Why
did they change the cast? (..though Richard Boone was also excellent in the
part). Just curious. thanks. MJ
Actually, the cast was used on the television series. One has to remember
that HGWT started on TV first BEFORE the radio program. HGWT had a full
season under it's belt by the time the radio version started, and the radio
version began using adaptations of the television scripts.
During the first season of television's HGWT, John Dehner played a villain
in the episode "High Wire," co-starring Strother Martin ("What we have here
. . ."). Dehner was considered a "supporting actor" for television - that
is to say, he'd appear on numerous episodes of various seasons. Dehner was
on five Maverick episodes, three Twilight Zones, at least nine Gunsmokes,
and so on usually appearing only once a season. Obviously by the second
season of television's HGWT, when Dehner began playing the lead of Paladin
on radio's HGWT, this kept him from appearing in any future HGWT TV
episodes. (Which financially, probably suited Dehner anyway - better to be
paid for 106 radio performances than 4 or 5 television appearances.)
Many of the radio cast did make appearances on the television series.
On the television series of Have Gun-Will Travel:
Larry Dobkin in "The Great Mojave Chase" 9/28/57
Vic Perrin played in "Winchester Quarentine" 10/5/57
Vic Perrin played in "Show of Force" 11/9/57
Harry Bartell in "Birds of a Feather" 3/8/58
Jeannette Nolan in "Gun Shy" 3/29/58
Olan Soule in "Hey Boy's Revenge" 4/12/58
Lurene Tuttle in "The Five Books of Owen Deaver" 4/26/58
Olan Soule in "Three Sons" 5/10/58
Olan Soule in "The Protege" 10/18/58
Virginia Gregg in "Sense of Justice" 11/1/58
Harry Bartell in "A Snare for Murder" 11/22/58
Jeanne Bates in "The Tafetta Mayor" 1/10/59
Barney Phillips in "The Monster of Moon Ridge" 2/28/59
Russell Arms in "Death of a Gunfighter" 3/14/59
Ben Wright in "Incident at Borrasca Bend" 3/21/59
Harry Bartell in "First, Catch a Tiger" 9/12/59
Sam Edwards in "Shot by Request" 10/10/59
Olan Soule in "The Black Handkerchief" 11/14/59
Lou Krugman in "Champagne Safari" 12/5/59
Parley Baer in "Tiger" 11/28/59
Eleanor Audley in "The Day of the Bad Man" 1/9/60
Olan Soule in "Jenny" 1/23/60
Vic Perrin in "The Night the Town Died" 2/6/60
Olan Soule in "The Hatchet Man" 3/5/60
Larry Dobkin in "Love of a Bad Woman" 3/26/60
I'm not even done the third season but I think everyone gets the idea. Ben
Wright, who played Hey Boy on radio's HGWT did a lot of small supporting
roles during the fourth television season.
Two of the best episodes of the series were the two Larry Dobkin appeared in
listed above. Highly recommended.
Martin Grams, Jr.
Reference: material originated from "The Have Gun Will Travel Companion"
--------------------------------
End of [removed] Digest V2003 Issue #168
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