------------------------------
The Old-Time Radio Digest!
Volume 2003 : Issue 272
A Part of the [removed]!
ISSN: 1533-9289
Today's Topics:
Robert Batscha, RIP [ Sean Dougherty <seandd@[removed] ]
Tyler McVeigh Obituary [ Sean Dougherty <seandd@[removed] ]
SLURS AND THEIR ORIGINS [ PURKASZ@[removed] ]
Obscure 1930s shows [ Osborneam@[removed] ]
Gildersleeve and pro sports [ "Rich Weil" <richweil@[removed]; ]
Nip--a racial slur? [ GARY SOKOL <garysokol@[removed]; ]
Sensibilities [ Ron Sayles <bogusotr@[removed]; ]
Uncalled for: [ Ron Sayles <bogusotr@[removed]; ]
Racist language [ Grams46@[removed] ]
July 13 births and deaths [ Ron Sayles <bogusotr@[removed]; ]
Racist? [ "Stephen A Kallis, Jr." <skallisjr@ ]
The Eternal Empire of the Sun, and t [ Wich2@[removed] ]
Ma Perkins [ Kenneth Clarke <kclarke5@[removed]; ]
Re: Fashion Plates [ Elizabeth McLeod <lizmcl@[removed] ]
how many sets are there [ "Ed Carr" <edcarr@[removed]; ]
Re: 1930s Obscurities [ Elizabeth McLeod <lizmcl@[removed] ]
Lost email address [ "Lois Culver" <lois@[removed]; ]
Charlie's work [ "steven kostelecky" <skostelecky@ho ]
Current Fashions? [ "Stephen A Kallis, Jr." <skallisjr@ ]
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 15:05:40 -0400
From: Sean Dougherty <seandd@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Robert Batscha, RIP
David Hinckley notes the passing of the president of the Museum of
Television and Radio in his New York Daily News column today.
Sean Dougherty
SeanDD@[removed]
[removed]
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 15:29:49 -0400
From: Sean Dougherty <seandd@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Tyler McVeigh Obituary
Sorry if this has been posted before, but I found this obituary for Tyler
McVeigh (whom I had the good fortune to share breakfast with at REPS two
years ago, a very nice man as has been noted by others) from the Ventura
County Start this morning and thought I should share.
It mentions his performances at conventions, his many wives, great radio
people he worked with and more -- very strong piece.
Sean Dougherty
SeanDD@[removed]
[removed],1375,VCS_226_2099411,[removed]
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 16:29:20 -0400
From: PURKASZ@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: SLURS AND THEIR ORIGINS
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In a message dated 7/12/2003 3:22:53 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[removed]@[removed] writes:
kclarke5@[removed]
Not wanting to clutter the Digest with an endless conversation on slurs
and such, I will respond and pray we can move on.
"Nip" is a corruption of the word Nipponese which is another description
of the Japanese culture.
All of these 'slurs' can be best described as pointless and sometimes
humorless references to a person's background or ethnicity and even parentage,
the insult is there to be taken if one is so inclined.
The intent of the user is also open to question and the whole damned
thing is nothing more than power dancing between individuals who may or may
not
have evil intent.
Certainly the use of the "nigger" word amongst some members of the
African-Anerican population would seem to be one of endearment but I suppose
it
merely outlines who can use a slur and who cannot.
Interesting no?
Not really, but there is a quality of the schoolyard bully about this
tendency to demonize and belittle, so let's all have some fun and move on to
the
world [removed] abuse!!!
What about all those Moms who destroyed our comic books!!!
Now there's a topic to get the blood boiling!
<A
HREF="[removed],+Michael+C.">Michael C. Gwynne</A>
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------------------------------
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 16:32:53 -0400
From: Osborneam@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Obscure 1930s shows
Re: 1) Transatlantic Murder Mystery, 2) Stratosphere
Murder Mystery, 3) Nemesis, Inc. and 4) Stonehill Prison Mystery.
Jack French says:
neither of us know anything about, nor can we find these
shows mentioned in all our standard OTR reference books.
Nor can I. My copies are titled "Mysteries of the Depression." The sound is
very good for the vinage if they
are indeed from the 1930s -- I hope more will turn up.
The music at the start reminds me very much of the George
Edwards serials, although I can't say for sure that's of any
help.
Arlene Osborne
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 16:44:06 -0400
From: "Rich Weil" <richweil@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: Gildersleeve and pro sports
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Is there any episode of Gildy where he takes Leroy to a professional baseball
or football game?
Thank you.
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------------------------------
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 18:45:16 -0400
From: GARY SOKOL <garysokol@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Nip--a racial slur?
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Kenneth Clarke asked:
The term was "Nip". Does this also refer to the Japanese?
Nippon is the Japanese word for Japan. Nipponware is a fine porcelain that
is/was produced in Japan. I looked up the word Nip in my Ameican Heritage
Dictionary and found: n. slang a Japanese person. An offensive term used
derogatorily I did a Google for the word Nip and there are a lot of links.
One I looked over was Nip Hop which is a Japanese Hip Hop group. They
themselves call it Nip Hop. I never knew Nip was so offensive. It is short
for Nipponese but then Jap is short for Japanese. Maybe we should defer to
the cultrual norm in Japan. Gary in NH
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------------------------------
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 18:45:29 -0400
From: Ron Sayles <bogusotr@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: Sensibilities
Doug Leary said a true statement when he said:
But the key issue is not how
he feels about it, but how Japanese people do (and did) feel about the
term "Japs."
My wife is Japanese and she abhors the term "Jap." In her and our experience
it was always meant a racial slur. This is all that I will say on the subject
having lived with it for the last 47 years.
Ron Sayles
Milwaukee, Wisconsin
Hometown of [removed] Kaltenborn and Jay Jostyn
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 18:45:41 -0400
From: Ron Sayles <bogusotr@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: Uncalled for:
George Aust said:
By the way I have Jap gardeners who are I think beautiful people!
Shame on you George. You have a Japanese gardener who is a beautiful person.
Ron Sayles
Milwaukee, Wisconsin
Hometown of [removed] Kaltenborn and Jay Jostyn
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 18:46:04 -0400
From: Grams46@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Racist language
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Kenneth Clarke <kclarke5@[removed] asked:
The term was "Nip". Does this also refer to the Japanese?
as far as i know, nip refers only to japanese people. the name for their
county in japanese is nippon. when i lived in japan from 1957-1960, i never
heard nip and jap used by citizens of the united states unless it was
derogatory.
from kathy
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------------------------------
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 18:46:16 -0400
From: Ron Sayles <bogusotr@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: July 13 births and deaths
July 13th births
07-13-1895 - Sidney Blackmer - Salisbury, NC - d. 10-5-1973
actor: "Lux Radio Theatre"
07-13-1902 - Phillips H. Lord - Hartford, CT - d. 10-19-1975
actor: Seth Parker "Seth Parker"; Mitchell Frazier "Story of Mary Marlin"
07-13-1906 - Harry Sosnick - Chicago, IL - d. 3-22-1996
conductor: "Pennzoil Parade"; "Your Hit Parade"; "Beat the Band"
07-13-1913 - Dave Garroway - Schenectady, NY - d. 7-21-1982
emcee, announcer: "World"s Great Novels"; "Dave Garroway Show"; "Dial Dave
Garroway"
July 13th deaths
09-21-1903 - Westbrook Van Voorhis - New Milford, CT - d. 7-13-1968
announcer, narrator: "March of Time"
11-01-1880 - Grantland Rice - Murfreesboro, TN - d. 7-13-1954
sportscaster: "Sports Stories"
--
Ron Sayles
Milwaukee, Wisconsin
Hometown of [removed] Kaltenborn and Jay Jostyn
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 00:06:09 -0400
From: "Stephen A Kallis, Jr." <skallisjr@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Racist?
In the discussion of whether references to Japanese citizens as "Japs,"
Howard Blue notes,
But the key issue is not how he feels about it, but how Japanese
people do (and did) feel about the term "Japs."
This is one of those "yes, but ..." things. Perception is often
extremely subjective, and often culture bound. To shift perspective for
a minute, most citizens of the United States refer to themselves as
"Americans." Considering that there are many other countries in North,
Central, and South America, any or all of their citizens are as
"American" as [removed] citizens. In Spanish, U. S. citizens are called
"Norteamericanos," meaning "North Americans," or "Yanquis," or "Yankees."
A more or less pejorative "Gringo" is used as well.
While on the subject of "Yankees," it's been shortened to "Yanks," and
although some people have used the word as a pejorative (as in the
sometimes heard "Oversexed, overpaid, and over here," remarks sometimes
heard in England during World War II), mostly, it was accepted as a
shorthand for a [removed] citizen, and nothing more.
One more thing: we've left out of the discussion the fact that some
radio shows and films of the war era openly called the Japanese
"inhuman."
I believe that pejorative was a fallout from the behavior of Japanese
soldiers in their occupation of Nanking, China. Those with strong
stomachs may be able to access film footage of what was done there. But
unless one's stomach _is_ strong, I don't recommend that one look for it.
I heard the statement while viewing a WWII era film the other day.
Well, if the film was made during the War, such phraseology is
understandable. One of the more astonishing things I ran across was a
listing of a Captain Midnight BLB that was published after Pearl Harbor (
Captain Midnight ... Versus the Terror of the Orient) where the seller
cautioned that the book contained "negative statements about Japanese."
During any war, what does anyone expect?
To the average "American," "Jap" for the Japanese was analogous for
"Yank" for a [removed] citizen.
Kenneth Clarke asks,
There was one I hadn't heard before which I wish someone would explain
to me off list.
The term was "Nip". Does this also refer to the Japanese?
I'll explain on-list. Another name for Japan was "Nippon." Thus, its
citizens were "Nipponese." So "Nip" was a shortened form of a term for a
citizen of the island.
One huge problem with language is the concept of Political Correctness.
Although I'm a survivor of the Pearl Harbor attack, through all my years,
I never thought of the term "Jap" as anything but one of those people who
lived on the islands of Honshu, Hokkaido, and associated smaller islands.
The first I heard of any negative connotations to the word was when I
was going to live over there for a while in the 1950s.
Stephen A. Kallis, Jr.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 00:23:54 -0400
From: Wich2@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: The Eternal Empire of the Sun, and the
actions of its God-Emperor
From: Howard Blue <khovard@[removed];
I suggest that the use of the term Jap may have reflected both the extent
to which Americans perceived the Japanese to have been alien --- as well
as the hostility which many Americans felt toward the Japanese.
The following is NOT "OT", because we are coming close here to the strain of
Creeping
Present-ism that does a grave disservice to many people in OTR -to name just
a few, Oboler, Corwin, & Welles. They worked very hard in their art of the
time to rally the Homefront in an almost sacred crusade against Japan and
Germany. And though BLIND racism for IMAGINED offenses is always and ever
wrong, in the case of the Japanese Empire of that era, these men were hardly
blind - and the offenses not, sadly, imagined.
Such things as The Rape of Nanking (which included strategic abuse of women
and
butchery of infants); the enforcement of the institutionalized "Comfort Women"
system; and the State-sponsored "medical" experimentation that rivaled "Dr."
Mengele and the Nazis, are now coldly documented facts - and no contemporary
"Eternal Moral Equivalency" theory can put them on a footing with the
(admittedly
sad) interment camps.
One more thing: we've left out of the discussion the fact that some radio
shows and films of the war era openly called the Japanese "inhuman."
If the above listed things (which are only the tip of the iceberg - let's leave
to the side the Bataan Death March, Hari-Kari, and the Kamikazes) don't qualify
as "in-" or at least, "un-" or "non-" humanE, than nothing does.
Again, let's not patronize the Writers, Directors, et al, of the time, by
patting
them on the head and inferring that they acted like provincial rubes in their
hard-won battles of the 1940's.
Best,
Craig Wichman
([removed] Almost seems awkward here, but again I ask if someone can rapidly
trade me a quality cassette of Suspense's "Return to Dust"?)
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 00:24:07 -0400
From: Kenneth Clarke <kclarke5@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Ma Perkins
I've heard many good reports regarding an OTR
program titled "Ma Perkins". Is it available? What was
it about? Was it one of those multi episode type programs
or was everything wrapped up in one or two episodes?
Wasn't Ma Perkins the owner of a mine or lumber mill?
Did the show last very long on radio?
Kenneth Clarke
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 00:24:36 -0400
From: Elizabeth McLeod <lizmcl@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: Re: Fashion Plates
On 7/11/03 5:20 PM OldRadio Mailing Lists wrote:
I had the thought that I could people a real life
panel. First would be Elizabeth M. (Amos & Andy).
Second Stephen K. (Capt. Midnight) and third Michael
H. (Dragnet). The question before the panel is of the
three which show has had the most significant
influence on current fashions.
Well, I will say that despite the work-clothes-and-battered-drivers'-cap
look depicted in most publicity photos of the OTR era, Amos was depicted
in the actual serial scripts as a rather careful dresser -- favoring blue
serge suits, conservative ties, stylish hats, and good, serviceable shoes
when he wasn't driving the taxicab. Andy, one must admit, was a bit more
-- eclectic -- in his clothing tastes, favoring bright ties, fancy suits,
and of course, his derby. Amos would probably pass unnoticed in any
modern-day crowd, such is the glacial pace at which mens' fashions
evolve. Andy, however, might well turn heads -- which, after all, is what
personal style is all about.
One thing that struck me in reading the scripts, actually, is how
meticulously such details were described in the characters' dialogue.
Gosden apparently had a very sharp eye for fashion -- in one episode,
Amos describes attending an elegant party with Ruby Taylor, and offered a
very careful description of the gown she wore, which was a bias-cut
number in a color Amos specified as "eggshell."
Speaking in general terms, I'd submit that there are very, very few men
*today*, let alone men in 1932, who were cognizant enough about women's
fashions to know that "eggshell" is a color. I suspect that the gown
description may have been supplied by Correll and Gosden's all-knowing
secretary and research specialist Louise Summa -- but in any case, it's
just another of the fascinating and meticulous little details that crop
up when you take the time to read these scripts.
Elizabeth
(extra points will be awarded to any of you boys out there who know what
"bias cut" means.)
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 00:24:54 -0400
From: "Ed Carr" <edcarr@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: how many sets are there
hi to all
i wonder just how many sets of 16in discs of ea series were recorded?
and a friend and myself just sold awhile back a big run
of young widder brown 16in, which had been in storage for many a yr
in his basement, (of course they were recorded 1st) i recently sold a large
number of calling all cars 16in
these and other series has made wonder how many times have these
particular discs been recorded, i sold many a ma perkins at the nj
convention, also johnny dollar discs, you think you have something rare
and come to find out that someone else has done them, how many times
will people go for the same shows? new people don't realize that there are
other than 1source for these [removed] how many sets, i know more than 2
i have here and never took notice of till today that i have 2 sets of harlem
hospitality club, that is 2 different shows, 4 discs, also there has to be at
least 4 sets around of country time usa, navy hoedown, how many sets are
in kangaroo land, thats where the missing ilam are i bet, why do i care, well
here it is in a nut shell, i am not putting out good money to accquire discs
if around the corner the same set is available and erhas cheaper, does all
this make sense?
ed
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 00:25:15 -0400
From: Elizabeth McLeod <lizmcl@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: Re: 1930s Obscurities
On 7/12/03 3:27 PM OldRadio Mailing Lists wrote:
Anybody who can help us out here? Elizabeth?
These are all productions recorded in Hollywood in 1932 at the Freeman
Lang Studios for the Radio Transcription Company of America Ltd.
("Transco"), and were offered to local stations during 1933. The
supporting cast members were the usual Transco suspects -- Lindsay
McHarrie, Elvia Allman, et. al, most of them moonlighting from the KHJ
dramatic stock company.
Irene Delroy was a Broadway ingenue of the 1920s who came to Hollywood to
appear in Vitaphone musicals at Warner Brothers in 1929-30, but she was
cut adrift by the studio when the craze for musicals fell apart in the
fall of 1930, and she was pretty clearly working from hunger to end up
doing Transco shows.
Transco's entire back catalog, aside from dance-orchestra broadcasts, was
bought out in the early 1940s by Bruce Eels Associates, who had new
copies of the discs pressed from the original Freeman Lang metal parts,
and reissued the programs. So it was that although they were extremely
moldy by then, these series were still being heard over ultra-small-time
stations for nearly twenty years after they were recorded. Practically
everything that turns up on the Bruce Eels/Broadcasters Program Syndicate
label originated in the early-to-mid-1930s with Transco.
Elizabeth
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 00:25:46 -0400
From: "Lois Culver" <lois@[removed];
To: "OTR Digest" <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: Lost email address
Can someone give me the email address of Brian Kurle (nickname nightowl) who
lives in Hillsboro, OR so that I may send him information on driving to
southern oregon to meet with [removed] missed him in OTR Chat on StarLink-IRC
this week.
Join OTR Chat on Thursdays, 8 PM ET, on IRC. StarLink-IRC network,
#Oldradio channel. Meet actors, soundmen from the "golden days of radio",
and others with the same interest. Email for directions.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 00:26:08 -0400
From: "steven kostelecky" <skostelecky@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Charlie's work
Just wanted to acknowledge the incredible ordeal Charlie had to go through
to get the Nostalgia Pages back online and continue the OTR Digest. I have
contributed financially the last three years and it is little enough
compared to what he has to go through to keep things going. It is
appreciated.
Hope you have some time to spend with your family this weekend.
Best,
Steve
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 00:45:03 -0400
From: "Stephen A Kallis, Jr." <skallisjr@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Current Fashions?
Larry Albert notes,
I had the thought that I could people a real life panel. First would be
Elizabeth M. (Amos & Andy). Second Stephen K. (Capt. Midnight) and third
Michael . (Dragnet). The question before the panel is of the three which
show has had the most significant influence on current fashions.
Well, as a potential panel member, I suppose I could say that leather
aviation helmet and goggles have been out of fashion for some time. I
guess the show had no impact of clothing fashions.
Cryptologically, the show used a letter-number scheme that was not much
"in fashion" in ciphers: they usually did letter-letter schemes. (There
are other more technical differences, but that's enough to make the
point.) So, the current fashion in cryptosystems got little boost from
the show.
Aeronautically, Captain Midnight favored amphibian aircraft in times of
peace. There has been some advance there, but not that much The Lake
amphibian (the Lake LA-4-200 Buccaneer) is perhaps the most
sophisticated, but there's no quantum leap. So one might possibly say
that the show had an influence of aeronautical fashions.
Possibly the greatest influence of the show was in social matters. The
show did not discriminate against women; indeed, lady Secret Squadron
members were expected to pull their weight fully. Both Joyce Ryan and
Fury Shark were active agents of their respective organizations. What
other show of the period regularly had its female lead in dangerous
situations that she didn't have to be an object of rescue? So, I'd say
that the greatest influence in "fashions" on the Captain Midnight show
was in terms of equal employment.
Stephen A. Kallis, Jr.
--------------------------------
End of [removed] Digest V2003 Issue #272
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