------------------------------
The Old-Time Radio Digest!
Volume 2001 : Issue 254
A Part of the [removed]!
ISSN: 1533-9289
Today's Topics:
MP3 player [ danhughes@[removed] ]
The Kirby Paper [ "Welsa" <welsa@[removed]; ]
KMOX And OTR [ "Bob Watson" <crw912@[removed]; ]
NARA [ sojax@[removed] (Roger Smith) ]
Re: The Eddy Tuneout, Again [ Elizabeth McLeod <lizmcl@[removed] ]
no listeners, no sponsors, no progra [ Bob Noble <bobnoble@[removed]; ]
Frank Zappa and radio drama [ "JOSEPH ANDOLINA, JR." <nostalgic@p ]
Re:KMOX [ "Tony Bell" <t_bell61@[removed]; ]
Re: KMOX & OTR [ RadioCM25@[removed] ]
Dennis Day/Dennis James [ fran-nik@[removed] (S G) ]
"no listeners, no sponsors,no progra [ nicoll <nicoll@[removed]; ]
National Security via Hollywood [ "Doug Leary" <dleary@[removed]; ]
What is reality? [ "Doug Leary" <dleary@[removed]; ]
Abandoned Babies [ George Aust <austhaus1@[removed] ]
Penny Singleton is alive [ "Doug Leary" <dleary@[removed]; ]
Wartime Radio Security in the New Yo [ leemunsick@[removed] ]
Free book [ Richard Carpenter <sinatra@ragingbu ]
Cornell Woolrich [ "Martin Grams, Jr." <mmargrajr@hotm ]
Mike [ "Harold Zeigler" <hzeigler@charter- ]
USO age (was re: Penny Singleton) [ Eric Cooper <ejcooper2001@[removed]; ]
Jack LaFrandre? [ Charlie Summers <charlie@[removed] ]
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 09:11:51 -0400
From: danhughes@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: MP3 player
Just bought a Koss CDP-3000 CD walkman-type CD player, which handles my
OTR MP3 CDs with no problem (listening to Vic and Sade as I type).
Plenty of features (including 45-sec antiskip, and compatible with CDR
and CDRW).
On sale this week at Target for $[removed] or so, including headphones and a
power supply. Uses 2 AA batteries. So if you want to listen to your
MP3s away from your computer and you don't want to spend $150 on a Rio,
you might check this out.
---Dan
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 10:21:32 -0400
From: "Welsa" <welsa@[removed];
To: "OTR Digest" <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: The Kirby Paper
A week or so ago I made available to anyone who wanted it, a paper by Col
Edward Kirby regarding his experiences in boradcasting during WWII. Many of
you requested it and I hope I have replied to all who asked.
Our leader, Charlie Summers, also took a copy and now has it posted on the
website in .pdf format (that means you will need Acrobat Reader). The URL
is: [removed]
Thanks for all your work in formatting it, Charlie! (We must have had a
couple dozen e-mails back and forth during this process--trying to get it to
look as much like the original as possible.)
Of course, if anyone would still like it in .rtf or WordPerfect format, just
e-mail me.
Ted
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 10:21:29 -0400
From: "Bob Watson" <crw912@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: KMOX And OTR
KMOX did indeed host some OTR programming back in the 70's on Sunday nights.
As a matter of fact, I attribute KMOX with introducing me to old time radio,
because it was KMOX that my Mom accidently turned to and instead of getting
a weather report, got Jack Benny and Rochester. That night, way back in 78,
while the rest of the family watched the CBS Sunday night lineup on TV, I
retired to my bedroom to search the station out on my radio and listened to
Jack, George and Gracie, and Connie Brooks. I then proceeded to have the
pants scared off of me with Suspense. Sunday nights were never the same for
me. <G>
Bob
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 11:01:22 -0400
From: sojax@[removed] (Roger Smith)
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: NARA
I am deeply sad after reading Jim Cox's posting in issue 252 on the
impending demise of NARA. Having been a member in good standing since
1976 (member #24) needless to say I am shocked. I have not received my
summer issue so I had no idea of what is happening. Jim Snyder has been
a close personal friend of mine since the 1970's and a more dedicated
person for OTR can not be found. His articles and other fine writers
such as Frank Bresee, Jim Cox, Jack Palmer, Bob Burnham (an old trading
buddy), Gene Larson, John Stanley, Jack French and many others will be
missed. Thank you all for the pleasures you have brought me thru these
many years. Roger Smith
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 11:02:59 -0400
From: Elizabeth McLeod <lizmcl@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: Re: The Eddy Tuneout, Again
On 8/6/01 9:12 AM OldRadio Mailing Lists wrote:
it's Nelson's first musical numbers that got people switching stations to
hear the early news interruptions and simulations;
The "Nelson Eddy Tuneout" is one of those things that everyone's read
about -- and it's a great story. But it didn't quite happen that way if
you step back and take a careful look at the evidence. I've discussed
this issue before, but it's always worth summing up once again for those
who may have tuned in late.
In his post-broadcast research, Princeton University Professor Hadley
Cantril sent out a total of 846 survey cards to people in the New
York-New Jersey area known to have listened to WOTW at least in part,
asking if they had at any time during the 8 to 9 pm hour listened to even
a portion of the Chase and Sanborn Hour. 518 of these cards were
returned, with eighteen per cent of those respondents indicating that
they had heard part of the C&S Hour that evening -- and sixty-two per
cent of *those* listeners indicating that they had tuned out *at the
conclusion of Bergen's first routine* -- ***NOT*** at the beginning of
Eddy's first song, which occured at approximately 2:17 into the
broadcast. (Charlie McCarthy has a few quick lines in the opening of the
program, exchanging a quip or two with Judy Canova, but this is far from
a "routine." Bergen-as-himself is not heard at all before Eddy's song.)
Bergen's first routine ended at 14:56 and was immediately followed by the
introduction to Dorothy Lamour's rendition of "Two Sleepy People." The
song began at 15:18, and Cantril's research indicates that the majority
of people who heard portions of both the C&S Hour and WOTW twisted the
dial at approximately this time. The point is worth repeating: according
to the only available scientific poll of the actual 10/30/38 audience,
only eighteen per cent of the total audience for WOTW had joined the
program after tuning out on the C&S Hour, and most of those that did so
-- twelve per cent of the total WOTW audience -- did so after the first
Bergen-McCarthy routine: at the start of Lamour's song, not Eddy's.
Extrapolating from estimated audience figures for that evening, a
reasonable approximation is that the total number of listeners
dial-twisting from NBC to CBS at this point fell somewhere between
480,000 and 600,000 people. Considering that the total estimated audience
for the C&S Hour that evening was in the area of 35,000,000 people, this
tuneout is far from a mass defection.
Nelson Eddy was one of the most popular performers on radio in 1938 -- he
was the overwhelming choice for Best Male Singer of Classical Songs in
that year's Radio Guide Star of Stars poll, and finished second in the
"Best Actor" category. His following was huge, especially among women --
many of whom considered him, and not Bergen, to be the true star of the
Chase & Sanborn Hour. And as Cantril's research demonstrates, Eddy simply
can't be held responsible for any "mass tuneout."
Elizabeth
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 14:50:00 -0400
From: Bob Noble <bobnoble@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: no listeners, no sponsors, no [removed]
kidding?
Leonard Fass notes that "no listeners, no sponsors, no programs" is a
"lousy slogan."
Well, no matter how you look at it, in today's climate of bean counters
and expectations of instant profits, that's how it is going to be. In
tv, for example, a show might get 6 episodes to make or break it.
Following this logic, Mash or Cheers would never have become popular,
and on NPR this morning they noted that the network didn't think "I Love
Lucy" had any promise, so Arnaz financed the show production himself.
If the instant profits concept had been alive in the 30s, 40s and 50s,
we would probably not have the wonderful long collections of all the OTR
shows that we do have.
If anyone is interested in seeing an in-depth series of articles on how
radio is being run today, you might check out [removed] and put in
"clearchannel" into the search box. A couple of the interesting articles
by Eric Bohlert in that series can be found in the following links:
[removed]
or this one:
[removed]
Having worked for a 50kw station that was bought for a
nickel-on-the-dollar by some cheapos from Pennsylvania, and then sold
for a hefty profit to the ClearChannel folks, I can tell you this
writer's right on target.
Maybe this runs slightly adrift from the main OTR theme of this
listserv, but it does show how the industry has changed to the
non-listenable mish-mash of syndicated crap that predominates it today.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 14:50:04 -0400
From: "JOSEPH ANDOLINA, JR." <nostalgic@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: Frank Zappa and radio drama
I thought everyone might find this interesting. I was originally posted by
someone else to a radio drama email list. It was from a book that featured
the last interview with Frank Zappa before he passed.
INTERVIEWER: What yould you do with radio ?
FRANK ZAPPA: Hmmmm. Bring back live dramas. There's no live drama on the
radio in the US - I know there's still bits and pieces in Europe, maybe in
the Far East, but it's a type of theatre that I really used to enjoy when I
was a kid because it frees your imagination, and if there's one thing the US
needs, it's a little bit of freedom
taken from the book: 'Negative Dialectics of Poodle
Play'. by Ben Watson.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 14:50:13 -0400
From: "Tony Bell" <t_bell61@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Re:KMOX
George Kelly wonders about station KMOX in St. Louis:
did the station host any otr programing? Also, would be interested in
anyone sharing a brief history of the station. How long has it been in its
present location and where was it located before?
I would direct George to an excellent site which documents the history of
radio in St. Louis [removed]
It is produced by a former radio and TV journalism professor of mine in
college, Frank Absher.
Growing up in St Louis, I have many fond memories of hours and hours
listening to KMOX, including my own introduction to OTR. I was born long
after the so called "golden age", but in the 70's, KMOX had a daytime
personality who I know will be familiar to many people here, the late Jack
Carney. Jack had a Saturday morning show that ran for about three hours
featuring OTR comedy, and he would have routines from shows like the
Bickersons, the Magees, Charlie McCarthy and countless others. I don't
believe he played complete shows like Chuck Schaden does here in Chicago,
but perhaps I'm mistaken. Years later, when I began my own collection, I
recalled that many of the comedy routines I was now acquiring, I had
originally heard on Jack's show.
Of course, as George mentioned, KMOX has been known for it's sports
programming, but it also has made quite a name for itself in news, including
the "At Your Service" format, one of the first shows to feature newsmakers
and experts of various sorts, which allowed listeners to call in and
interact with the guests.
Tony Bell
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 14:50:15 -0400
From: RadioCM25@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Re: KMOX & OTR
As a native St. Louisan, I became a fan of OTR in the same year that NARA
started and was featured in TIME magazine. KMOX was very active in playing
OTR, having programs on it, and, while Jack Carney (who died much too young,
and was just voted in to the Broadcast Hall of Fame) was living, he had OTR
on all the time and a Saturday morning program of OTR programming. So KMOX
was a strong advocate of OTR through all the years.
Chick Meyerson
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 15:19:01 -0400
From: fran-nik@[removed] (S G)
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Dennis Day/Dennis James
Ooops -- thanks everyone for not making me feel [removed]:-( It
was Dennis James who was the game show host. Not Dennis Day. Sorry for
the goof. :-)
Some of my favorites: FIBBER MCGEE AND MOLLIE, NIGHTBEAT, SUSPENCE,
PHIL HARRIS AND ALICE FAYE SHOW, AND (as a huge Frank Sinatra fan) ROCKY
FORTUNE.
Thankyou also, for the book recommendations. I will definately try to
get copies.
Also (to Stephen Kallis, Jr.): Hope to get your "Captain Midnight" book
very soon. Looking forward to reading it. :-)
Sometimes (on some Lists) if you are not an expert you feel intimated,
as a beginner, to ask a question Thank all of you at OTR for making me
feel welcomed.
Shelley Gordon
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 15:41:09 -0400
From: nicoll <nicoll@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: "no listeners, no sponsors,no programs"
Lest we [removed] primary, paramount, overriding, number one function of
the media was/is to sell products.
Will Nicoll
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 18:47:42 -0400
From: "Doug Leary" <dleary@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: National Security via Hollywood
As a rule I would say the accurate portrayal of security in general is not
one of Hollywood's strongest areas. In serious dramatic films we see elite
guards whose first response to a strange sound in the night is to step out
of a protected bunker into a well-lit, open area where they can get shot,
karate-chopped, or have nets thrown over them. We see high-tech laser alarm
systems foiled easily by a mirror on a stick. Righto.
Most things in films are designed to fit the public's idea of what they
should look like, whether it's realistic or not. The things portrayed most
accurately in old movies are probably things the public was intimately
familiar with at the time, like family homes and country stores. The
security implications of architecture, such as Professor Barnhart's office
in "The Day the Earth Stood Still," are probably no more reliable than the
image of the fatherly, rumpled, Einstein-like character himself -- a staple
of old sci-fi films. In their photos, actual government scientists looked
more like everyday businessmen.
Doug Leary
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 18:47:40 -0400
From: "Doug Leary" <dleary@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: What is reality?
Another post related to wartime security got me thinking about how modern
perceptions of the past are influenced by old fiction. This seemed like a
different subject, so here it is separately:
To me one of the more interesting aspects of OTR, old movies and television
is the ways in which they influence people's perception of history. We know
there was no Captain Midnight, but it's difficult not to give bits of
fantasy equal weight with reality. Images from fiction somehow become part
of our perception of past times. Wasn't there a real detective somewhere who
had cases as thrilling and varied as Philip Marlowe? Minor arguments in
saloons and bars didn't usually erupt into gunfights or furniture-destroying
brawls, but didn't they sometimes? And weren't there US Army platoons
composed of two farmboys, a poet, some guys from Brooklyn and a gruff but
loveable sergeant?
About 15 years ago in Portland, Oregon, there was a television show on which
self-professed psychics described past lifetimes of viewers who phoned in.
One such psychic claimed to see a caller chained together with a group of
other men in a ship, pulling oars. A picturesque image, but I had to laugh,
having recently read an article by a historian who had researched this
specific concept and found it mentioned nowhere in any historical or
archaeological records. The galley slave appears to be a creature of
fiction, and apparently the psychic's "vision" came from an old movie. What
got me was that in spite of several years of Latin classes, I too had this
image filed away in my view of history.
Recently I've noticed that television documentaries are increasingly using
very old film footage to illustrate things that happened long before movies
were invented. Rather than using newer material of higher quality, the
producers choose old, low-quality clips to depict American pioneers,
Indians, colonial characters, medieval and ancient people, even dinosaurs.
The fact that I've seen this mostly in shows for kids makes me wonder
whether it is an artistic choice, or a conscious effort to make these images
seem real because they look old. I'm sure the people reading this know that
a clip of the American Civil War cannot possibly be authentic, no matter how
old and cruddy the film looks. But does a typical 10-year-old or even a
typical teenager of today have that mental filter in place?
It has been said that religious paintings of the middle ages depicted
biblical characters as contemporary, not ancient people, because few people
of the middle ages had any real sense of history. Technology and culture had
stagnated for so long, and changed so slowly, that most people had more of a
sense that things had always been pretty much the way they were. As radio,
movies and tv pass from the modern realm to the historical realm, I wonder
if people who don't study such things will eventually lose awareness of the
fact that they weren't always around?
Doug Leary
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 19:22:50 -0400
From: George Aust <austhaus1@[removed];
To: OTR Digest <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: Abandoned Babies
Another program that used this plot device was Lum n' Abner, I think
around July ,August, September of 1942. It ran for several weeks.
Unlike the Gildersleeve shows the writing on Lum n' Abner was such that
what ever pathos was generated by the story of the two men caring for
the abandoned baby was overcome by the irritation of their incredible
ignorance and selfishness. The pair first become convinced that the
baby is actually of royal blood and that they will get a large reward
for caring for the baby, and then eventually Lum convinces himself that
He will be made king of some faraway country until the baby is old
enough to rule for himself.
I usually enjoy this show a great deal, but this particular series
strayed too far from their normally funny and sometimes touching
episodes.
George Aust
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 19:34:10 -0400
From: "Doug Leary" <dleary@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: Penny Singleton is alive
According to "Who's Alive and Who's Dead"
[removed]
I ran across this website several years ago and then forgot about it. The
guy who runs it is highly devoted to keeping it up to date. He has lots of
links to similar pages; should a good resource for the curious.
Doug Leary
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 20:24:29 -0400
From: leemunsick@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Wartime Radio Security in the New York area
In the late 1950s, I introduced myself to "Long John" Nebel, who was then
fairly new to the overnight airwaves at WOR in New York City. The program
had another name, but it was quickly forgotten (including by me) to became
"The Long John Show". Every night, it got under way following the Studio X
and Jean Shepherd shows airing from the Times Square studios. We then came
on from the transmitter at midnight, and ran until six or six-thirty in the
morning, to be followed by the early morning Farm Report.
As has been noted here before, WOR had and still has a huge signal
"footprint", to use today's term. Its clear-channel spot at 710 KC carried
it to Florida, over a dozen states at night, and obviously far out to
sea. With favorable skip, it could be heard in the UK and Europe. Its
signal therefore would have been a beacon for any direction-finding wartime
devices intent on sailing into the New York area in WWII. A bit later, it
became a major reason for ConElRad during the Cold War.
The transmitter it was in lonesome, quiet, sparsely-settled Carteret, not
far inland from the New Jersey shore. It easily could have been reached by
saboteurs or enemy agents intent on capturing or destroying the powerful 50
KW transmitter.
For some weeks I worked from there with John, before management relented
and put on personnel at the studios to let us broadcast from Times
Square. Until they did, it was a hoot motoring down the New Jersey
Turnpike, ramping off at the Carteret exit, and driving through the dark
toward the lights of the antenna array to the transmitter location. It was
an experience I shall never forget, and am certainly glad I had.
The property was completely surrounded by a high fence which, if memory
serves, was topped with barbed wire. In my time the gate remained open,
but the property at any time could have been locked up defensively.
The building was Art Deco. Quite secure. Round! The interior had a
rcircular sofa with seats facing out, in the open center of the
building. Various truncated pie-wedge rooms ringed against the
exterior walls. The xmtr, lavatory facilities, a small kitchenette,
storage areas, an engineering studio including full complement of
turntables and the like, and a studio with table, mikes, chairs, and
[removed] usual accouterment.
I've told the story here of Long John, the former carnival "talker" or
barker to the "rubes". He boasted that nobody--but nobody--could break him
up, and it was true. But one night all by himself at the studio table
while several of us were having a morning snack in the kitchenette nearby,
John Nebel all by himself totally lost control in an attack of hysterical
laughter for no reason known to any of us, including John himself. We had
to carry the program for nearly an hour, before he finally calmed down
enough to come back and take over the program after a number of aborted
attempts.
The wartime concerns of a decade or more before popped up occasionally,
sometimes subtly, sometimes quite un-so. First, one realized after a few
visits, that a vehicle and even a pedestrian entering the grounds would
set off an audible and light-bulb alarm inside, long before the intruder
got that close to the building.
That's the subtle part. But hanging on the wall inside were: A shotgun,
armed with scatter-shot. A rifle for more accurate sniper activity. I
think there was a belt, holster, and revolver. And quite literally the
piece de resistance, a Thompson sub-machine gun! Whether it would have
been safe for anyone to fire any of these in the late 1950s was
debatable. I certainly didn't dare or care to, and didn't know anyone else
who wanted to try.
Fortunately, none of these was needed over the years. Sadly, the
transmitter was moved some years later. The enormous tower and studio
building were torn down. I've been told that the large property is now a
shopping mall. In New Jersey where everything is built on or paved over,
what else?
Hope this word picture is enjoyable for you inane, silly, nutty radio
nuts! With love from one of you!
Lee Munsick "That Godfrey Guy"
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 22:50:27 -0400
From: Richard Carpenter <sinatra@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Free book
Let me join the chorus of praise for the novel "Two O'clock Eastern
Wartime" by John Dunning. It succeeds both as a murder mystery and as an
evocation of radio's glory days. Now that I'm through with the book, which I
finished while vacationing on lovely Prince Edward Island, I'd like to give
it to the first person who e-mails me. It's no big deal: I bought the book
cheap at [removed]; it's a former library copy.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 22:51:07 -0400
From: "Martin Grams, Jr." <mmargrajr@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Cornell Woolrich
Gregory Robert Jackson, Jr. wrote:
I have heard a lot of great Suspense radio shows based on stories by
Cornell Woolrich. The new motion picture "Original Sin," starring
Antonio Banderas and Angelina Jolie, is based on Cornell Woolrich's
novel "Waltz Into Darkness." I know it was also the basis for the 1969
movie "Mississippi Mermaid" starring Jean-Paul Belmondo and Catherine
Deneuve.
I would like to know if it was ever produced as a radio show?
The answer to that one is easy. No. "Original Sin" was never done on the
radio. One of the best things about author Cornell Woolrich, is that his
estate preserved EVERYTHING. That is to say, every radio script based on a
story by Woolrich, television script, movie, novel, short story, everything
that could be imagined including first editions, etc. There is an excellent
book by Francis M. Nevins, Jr. entitled (I think this was the title) First
You Dream, Then You Die. It was released a few years ago and SCARLET STREET
magazine even made a big to-do about the book three years ago by offering a
feature-length article from the book. There is a thick 50 page chapter near
the end (as I recall) which lists EVERY radio play based on a Cornell
Woolrich story, and cross-references to the stories and their original date
of publication and other details that relate to that show. Woolrich, for
the record, NEVER wrote for radio, someone else always wrote a script from
his stories. But the book gives an excellent idea of how much Woolrich was
done on the air.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 22:51:11 -0400
From: "Harold Zeigler" <hzeigler@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Mike
Hi Anybody,
I was wondering if anyone out there has any info on a 'Major Bowes
Amateur Home Broadcasting Microphone"? It stamped metal and pressed together
and is black with a gold grill. It's the kind you could hook up to a certain
tube in your radio and talk through your radio. I would like to get it's
history such as: was it a premium? It's age? Any paper work on it? It's value?
Any answers will be helpful to me.
Thanks ,Harold
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 22:52:12 -0400
From: Eric Cooper <ejcooper2001@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: USO age (was re: Penny Singleton)
I wonder about the USO holding it's 50th anniversary in June 2000 (maybe
that's
when they chose to celebrate it, because the USO website lists their founding
date
as February 4,1941. (maybe 60th anniversary?)
Eric Cooper
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 23:16:53 -0400
From: Charlie Summers <charlie@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Jack LaFrandre?
Folks;
Received this in the mail last evening; I've invited Mr. LaFrandre to join
us here on the Digest, but in the meantime you might want to copy him
directly on any information you might have.
Charlie
--- begin forwarded text
Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 22:15:22 -0400
From: Jon LaFrandre <jonssweetlady@[removed];
My dad, Jack LaFrandre worked in radio on WGN in Chicago in the 1950's. He
wrote radio scripts for 'The Hidden Truth', 'Garrity the Great' and 'Chicago
Theatre of the Air' & others. Is there any place on the web that remembers
Jack LaFrandre?
--- end forwarded text
--------------------------------
End of [removed] Digest V2001 Issue #254
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