Subject: [removed] Digest V2001 #322
From: "OldRadio Mailing Lists" <[removed]@[removed];
Date: 10/3/2001 9:03 AM

To: <[removed]@[removed];

    ------------------------------

                                The Old-Time Radio Digest!
                                  Volume 2001 : Issue 322
                             A Part of the [removed]!
                                     ISSN: 1533-9289

                                     Today's Topics:

      Some Thoughts on OTR for a Young Lis  [ "Stephen A Kallis, Jr." <skallisjr@ ]
      Try To Remember ...                   [ "Stephen A Kallis, Jr." <skallisjr@ ]
      Orson Welles & Citizen Kane           [ Mike Ray <MRay@[removed]; ]
      10/4 Ernest Kinoy lecture             [ Bhob <bhob2@[removed]; ]
      Re: C&C Movietime                     [ Roo61@[removed] (Randy Watts) ]
      CBSRMT Mystery                        [ Ga6string@[removed] ]
      OTR for Kids                          [ Mike Kuypers <mkuypers@[removed]; ]
      Law & Order / Nightbeat               [ "Martin Grams, Jr." <mmargrajr@hotm ]
      Re: OTR on film - THE WHISTLER        [ SanctumOTR@[removed] ]
      Paladin                               [ "Mark Kinsler" <kinsler33@[removed] ]
      Re: Kids Show                         [ hal stone <dualxtwo@[removed]; ]
      Catching up on stuff                  [ hal stone <dualxtwo@[removed]; ]
      "Therrrrrrres Johnny!"                [ Conrad Binyon <conradab@[removed] ]
      Chris "OTR is something [removed]"       [ "Ted Kneebone" <tkneebone1@[removed] ]
      Begatting of the [removed]         [ "Ted Kneebone" <tkneebone1@[removed] ]

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2001 10:47:28 -0400
    From: "Stephen A Kallis, Jr." <skallisjr@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Some Thoughts on OTR for a Young Listener

    Scott Eberbach asks,

>     I have an extremely bright, sensitive, and imaginative 6 year old
>     nephew and I am trying to think of some OTR that would be appropriate for
>     this boy and his 3 year old brother with the same attributes.

    I can't speak for the 3-year old, but there is a whole collection of
    15-minute episodes of Jack Armstrong (The All-American Boy) featuring a
    trip to the Sulu Sea to recover some lost Uranium 235 (this in 1940!).
    If he can be talked into listening to an episode a day, so much the
    better (though he'd probably want to have a Dragon's Eye Ring.  So would
    I).  If he can handle The Adventures of Superman, he can probably enjoy
    The Challenge of the Yukon.

    Stephen A. Kallis, Jr.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2001 10:47:47 -0400
    From: "Stephen A Kallis, Jr." <skallisjr@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Try To Remember ...

    Donna Halper, remarking on the statement that a lot of OTR stars are
    forgotten, notes,

>     several of you noted that when you talked to your grandparents, they
>     couldn't remember anybody but Jack Benny (or Eddie Cantor).  As a radio
>     consultant for many years, I've done all sorts of market research and
>     found that <snip> the vast majority of people have no clue about the
>     names of the artists they hear on the air.

    Well, save for variety shows and the like, that's understandable.  When
    as a kid, I listened to The Shadow, I paid no attention to the credits.
    If anyone had asked me who Bret Morrison was (IMHO, _The_ Shadow because
    of his Lamont Cranston), they'd have drawn a blank.  During the years I
    diligently listened to Captain Midnight, I couldn't have identified Ed
    Prentiss with a gun to my head.  That Jeff Chandler played Mr. Boynton,
    the bashful biologist, on Our Miss Brooks was lost on me in those days.

    Part of the difference was that I was a kid.  Another part was that I was
    listening to the shows, not studying them.  (This is not to knock OTR
    scholarship: analogously, today, how many people watching a film at
    theater sit through the credit crawl at the end of a feature?)  I think
    that this might be a difference between remembering personalities and
    recalling programs.  I remember programs very well, but not necessarily
    the artists.

    Stephen A. Kallis, Jr.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2001 10:48:24 -0400
    From: Mike Ray <MRay@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Orson Welles & Citizen Kane

    High Gang:

    Picked up my DVD copy of Citizen Kane this weekend.
    I've been looking forward to it's release for some time.
    The package contains 2 DVD's and offers over 8 hours
    of material. Among the material; you can see the movie
    like you normally would, or see it with commentary by Roger
    Ebert or Peter Bogdonvich. Roger's commentary is worth
    the price of the whole package by itself. He gives continues
    commentary for nearly 2 hours. All very interesting, and
    of course you hear a lot of tid bits that you did not know.
    It's very fascinating. What's most interesting, is that Roger
    and Peter go into great detail about not only Orson Welles
    great work in radio, but also talks a bit about the radio days
    of the Mercury Theater. Roger singles out Ray Collins (Jim Getties)
    as a truly great radio actor. In the 2nd DVD, it is a 2 hour
    Documentary over the battle of Citizen Kane. You have
    several sound bites from William Alland of the Mercury Theater.
    This is a not to miss DVD for OTR lovers. You won't be
    disappointed.

    Best regards,
    Mike Ray

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2001 10:48:43 -0400
    From: Bhob <bhob2@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  10/4 Ernest Kinoy lecture

    Note that Ernest Kinoy of DIMENSION X fame will deliver a lecture
    October 4 in Brattleboro, Vermont. I post this here in case anyone in
    New England might want to make a tape, ask questions about OTR and/or
    meet Kinoy:

    BRATTLEBORO REFORMER describes the event:
    [removed]

    BRATTLEBORO MUSEUM AND ART CENTER:
    [removed]

    OCTOBER 4, THURSDAY, 7:30 [removed]
    The Journey: Social Issues and Censorship by Ernest Kinoy --
    Emmy and Governor's Award-winning scriptwriter Ernest Kinoy talks about
    the changes he has seen in television, from the early days of live
    productions
    to contemporary productions where freedom means the inclusion of sex and

    violence. Admission: $4; BMAC members, seniors, and students $3

    ...
    Bhob @ SHOWBIZ @ [removed]
     .
    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2001 10:46:53 -0400
    From: Roo61@[removed] (Randy Watts)
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Re: C&C Movietime

>     C&C prints seem to be all that's available
>     for many early RKO films, and they are
>     usually blurry, poorly-contrasted, and
>     quite unpleasant to look at.

    Early television required very low-contrast film prints.  That's why the
    C&Cs tend to look unusually soft.  Also, since those C&C prints were
    contractually "owned" by the stations that leased them, many of them
    eventually found their way into private hands and became source material
    for many a basement film bootlegger.  As a result, dupey, poor-quality
    prints of the C&C titles are common.  First-generation C&C prints tend
    to be much more pleasant to look at.

    --Randy

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2001 23:10:28 -0400
    From: Ga6string@[removed]
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  CBSRMT Mystery

    Steven Kostelecky [removed]

>     A friend of mine was listening to a [CBSRMT] story online and was cut
>     [removed][SNIP] He finds a key begins to open the closet door. All answers lie
>     within. If anyone can identify this story, I'd be most grateful. You may
>     email me off the digest.

    Hi all,
    Why not respond on-list? I'd love to hear that one, and discover the ending,
    myself!
    Bryan Powell

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2001 23:10:36 -0400
    From: Mike Kuypers <mkuypers@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  OTR for Kids

    Any of the family sitcoms -- Adv. of Ozzie & Harriet, The Life of Riley,
    Father Knows Best -- would be good. But those that focus on kids -- The
    Aldrich Family, Archie Andrews -- would be especially good.

    Mike Kuypers

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2001 23:10:42 -0400
    From: "Martin Grams, Jr." <mmargrajr@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Law & Order / Nightbeat

    Law and Order uses Nightbeat?

    Speaking of new TV and old radio, one of my favorite radio programs is Frank
    Lovejoy's NIGHTBEAT.  For anyone who has never heard episodes of this show,
    the drama and dialogue couldn't be better.  My personal favorite is the one
    (can't recall the title) about the man on his death bed in prison and Randy
    has to search and find the dying man's wife.  The ending is great drama, and
    a shocker.

    What I have found most odd through the years is A&E network rerunning the
    Law and Order TV series recently aired over NBC the past eight or nine
    years.  The scripts for the first three seasons of Law and Order are just as
    polished as the Nightbeat radio series, and to top that off, I have observed
    much of the same dialogue and witty remarks from the Nightbeat OTR series
    used as the same dialogue in Law and Order.

    Examples: Randy on Nightbeat tells someone "that's as useless as rain on
    lake Michigan" and sure enough, one of the early episodes of L&O had the
    District Attorney tell the Ass. DA "that's about as useless as rain on lake
    Michigan."  That's one example.  I've observed dozens and dozens of quotes
    and dialogue reused on L&O.  Could the script writers of L&O used Nightbeat
    as an inspiration?  Or perhaps the same script writers?  Plots may be
    different, but not the dialogue.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2001 23:11:02 -0400
    From: SanctumOTR@[removed]
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Re: OTR on film - THE WHISTLER

    In a message dated 10/2/01 9:51:06 AM, Jerry Strauss writes:

>     The most elusive OTR related films to find on television or video are those
>     based on The Whistler.

    The first WHISTLER movie (directed by William Castle) was repeatedly aired
    about two months ago on the Mystery Channel.  I assume others in the series
    will probably follow.
    --Anthony Tollin

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2001 23:11:19 -0400
    From: "Mark Kinsler" <kinsler33@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Paladin

    I believe that it was always implied that Paladin wasn't his name at all: a
    'paladin' is sort of a hired hero of the samuri variety.  I think the term
    comes from Middle Eastern literature somewhere.  Might be Turkish or Arabic.

    Johnny Western said that he wrote the theme song for that show in fifteen
    minutes.

    M Kinsler,
    a knight without armor with a savage lamb.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2001 23:11:40 -0400
    From: hal stone <dualxtwo@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Re: Kids Show

    on 10/1/01 8:54 AM, OldRadio Mailing Lists at
    [removed]@[removed] wrote:

>     I am trying to think of some OTR that would be appropriate for this boy and
>     his 3 year old brother with the same attributes.  He likes The Adventures Of
>     Superman and The Cinnamon Bear and both of these collections are currently
>     on loan to [removed] enquired whether or not I have any more radio shows.

    Far be it for me to suggest getting some copies of the "Archie Andrews"
    show. :)  It might appear as terribly conceited on my part. But there is an
    interesting aspect to this show that might appeal to them both. The Archie
    Comic books are still widely available, (and some in Digest form on
    supermarket racks.) They could become familiar with what the teenage Comic
    Book Characters look like, (Archie, Jughead, Betty and Veronca), then be
    able to visualize those characters while listening to the shows. Sort of
    show and tell. It would certainly add another dimension.

    If you can't get someone to send you cassette copies, contact OTR dealer Ted
    Davenport at Radio Spirits (TedOTR@[removed]) who carries these shows, and
    check on his inventory. He's a good guy, and fair priced.

    If you decide to go this route, let me know if the boys enjoy the show.
    But e-mail me privately if they don't. :)

    Regards,

    Hal(Harlan)Stone
    Jughead

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2001 23:11:56 -0400
    From: hal stone <dualxtwo@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Catching up on stuff

    Hi all. Have been out of the loop for almost a month. I've read all the
    postings, but haven't had time to respond with my 2 cents worth. Will try to
    briefly catch up.

    On the subject of everyone's top five "Favorite" shows, It appears that many
    had a difficult time limiting their selection to just 5, primarily because
    it was a case of mixing "Apple's and Oranges". (More on that later)

    And this also ties in with the recent thread about the intellectual,
    educational (or intelligence level) of the listeners back then.

    Having lived through that major OTR period, as a Performer, and an avid
    listener, (1939 to 1955), I think that many of the above factors come into
    play.

    During the early 40's, I can recall that some of the Brass from NBC's
    Programming, Sales, and research departments told me that the average age
    (IQ perhaps? or educational level?) of the average listener of Network radio
    was about 12 years old. How they arrived at that, I'll never know. But I
    suppose it's not too far a stretch.

    Many of the recent postings about one's grandparents not going beyond an 8th
    grade education might bear that out to some extent. Remember, we are talking
    about an "Average age" of mass audience here. City Dwellers and the American
    Heartland. (That lower education level also held true with my own parents).
    But could they survive, achieve and prosper in the middle class world?
    Certainly. And what those folks didn't learn from books, or advanced
    education, they learned the hard way.

    But in the eyes of Network executives, a radio shows popularity (and reason
    for being) depended to a great extent on its appeal to as broad a listener
    base as possible. Obviously, to attract Sponsors. Soap Opera pablum was a
    prime example for the mid-day crowd. Late afternoon (After school Action
    Adventure shows) appealed to many as well. They certainly did not require
    much thought or intellectual capacity. They were pure escapism.

    Then too, The "Early Prime Time" evening shows were designed to capture
    whole families, which also tended to skewer the "Average Age" downward,
    before the little rug rats were sent off to bed. (Where many of them
    listened clandestinely to the scary "horror" shows of the day, with the
    table top radio turned down low, and covers pulled over their heads). "I
    love a mystery". "Light's Out", "Inner Sanctum", "The Shadow",.... Boy, how
    we loved to be [removed] then, afraid of the dark.

    Obviously, as one aged, the Radio Programs of choice became slightly more
    sophisticated. Particularly when it came to humor. And the programs were
    written with that in mind. A great example is the "Charlie McCarthy" show.
    The kids loved the little dummy, but the comedy had a lot of adult humor,
    and double entendre's with Charlie's lecherous approach to the female guest
    stars.

    My point [removed] age came a degree of sophistication and intellectual
    development, and tastes in programming changed along with that maturity.

    I think it would be interesting to classify any top five "favorite" radio
    shows based on time periods. Morning Kids shows, Afternoon Action/Adventure,
    and then, Prime time. That's what I meant earlier when I said one can't
    really compare Apples and Oranges. Shows were designed and written to appeal
    to specific age ranges. But unless one actually lived through that period,
    they would not be able to recollect their favorites during their maturation
    [removed] childhood, the late teen years, and adulthood. The Younger OTR fan
    (50 and below) can only pick his or her "top five" with a far more
    heightened awareness of the world around them (Thanks to TV) and a more
    sophisticated view of what constitutes good "Entertainment".

    But having said all that, I really must thank a few fans of the "Archie
    Andrews" show who blew my mind when they listed that program among their top
    five favorites. Wow! But as I've stated before in this digest, I do not
    consider the "Kids" show format as worthy of competing head to head with
    some of the great Prime Time programming of that period. But I think the
    "Archie" show could compete in a New York Minute with any other kid show on
    the air back then. (Apples n' Apples).  The writing and performances was
    definitely geared for the AVERAGE age of 12. Fortunately, there were enough
    "older" teen age girls that listened and attended the Broadcasts, so I must
    admit, (being a "teenager" myself), I took advantage of my "celebrity"
    status as "Jughead" and got a lot of dates that way. Ah Yes!

    But I did the show until my early 20's, so the little Teeny Bopper fans then
    became jail bait, so I hastened to find female companionship elsewhere.

    Hal(Harlan)Stone
    Jughead

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2001 23:12:34 -0400
    From: Conrad Binyon <conradab@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  "Therrrrrrres Johnny!"

    My say so about Johnny Roventini:

    [removed]

    CAB
    --
    conradab@[removed] (Conrad A. Binyon)
       From the Home of the Stars who loved Ranches and Farms
         Encino, California.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2001 23:12:51 -0400
    From: "Ted Kneebone" <tkneebone1@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Chris "OTR is something [removed]"

    Chris, Thanks for your keen observation in your post of 10/1.  You expressed
    my thoughts when you wrote:  "...I view radio and TV as complementing each
    other.  Whereas, there are some things you can't do on radio, there are also
    some things that are done best on [removed]"
        It is my understanding that the US is probably the only major nation
    that let television kill off radio as a medium of entertainment and
    education.  Am I correct in assuming that Great Britain, Canada, and
    Australia still use both mediums and do not treat them as competitors?

    Ted Kneebone

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2001 23:13:02 -0400
    From: "Ted Kneebone" <tkneebone1@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Begatting of the [removed]

    Anyone know of a recording of Orson Welles doing something called "The
    begatting of the President"?  A friend asked me today if I know of such a
    recording.  He did not know if it has been broadcast or not, but said he
    recalls that it was done during the Reagan administration.

    Ted Kneebone

    --------------------------------
    End of [removed] Digest V2001 Issue #322
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