Subject: [removed] Digest V2006 #329
From: [removed]@[removed]
Date: 11/24/2006 2:35 PM

To: [removed]@[removed]

    ------------------------------

                                The Old-Time Radio Digest!
                                  Volume 2006 : Issue 329
                             A Part of the [removed]!
                                 [removed]
                                     ISSN: 1533-9289

                                     Today's Topics:

      The original black Friday             [ <otrbuff@[removed]; ]
      RE: MP3 Player fitted in Auto's       [ "Rick Botti" <rbotti@[removed]; ]
      Mono vs. Stereo                       [ "Sammy Jones" <sjones69@[removed] ]
      11-24 births/deaths                   [ Ronald Sayles <bogusotr@[removed] ]
      Mp3 rules of doing a trade            [ <rjsmith608@[removed]; ]
      iPod?                                 [ Ed Mulligan <fangle@[removed]; ]
      Re: Robert Altman                     [ Jordan Young <jyoung@[removed]; ]
      OTR and MP3                           [ Tom Greenli <tom_greenli@[removed]; ]
      Just a "bit" more on Sound            [ Ken Greenwald <radio@[removed]; ]
      Re: I Pod and OTR and .wav            [ Brent Pellegrini <brentpl@rocketmai ]
      Digital Audio                         [ "Paul Grieves" <paul@[removed]. ]

    ------------------------------

    Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2006 19:41:20 -0500
    From: <otrbuff@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  The original black Friday

    As the anniversary of "the day radio drama died" (November 25, 1960)
    approached including most of the last vestiges of dramatic and musical fare
    and some other features of the golden age, I listened on Thanksgiving
    afternoon to a tape commemorating it.  It's not the last day itself, which
    has been widely distributed and in circulation for decades, but the more
    limited November 24 broadcasts -- the CBS day before the end of it all.

    As I followed it once more it seemed appropriate in real time that this was
    Thanksgiving.  I was particularly filled with gratitude for three fellows
    who made the tape possible.  Back on the anniversary in 1991, on their Los
    Angeles show "Same Time, Same Station," Larry and John Gassman aired a tape
    recording of the CBS daytime serials that had been recorded by Chris
    Lembesis on that imposing day in 1960, taken from airchecks of KNX
    programming.  Thank you, Chris, and thank you Larry and John!  It's the tape
    of the Gassman show featuring Chris's original recording that I possess.
    While I feel confident it is now in circulation via multiple sources, they
    may be few.

    It includes the next-to-last chapters of The Couple Next Door, The Right to
    Happiness, CBS News for that hour, Whispering Streets, Ma Perkins, Young
    Doctor Malone and The Second Mrs. Burton.  The story lines in almost all
    have a Thanksgiving Day theme as they aired on Thursday of that momentous
    week.  All of those shows left the air permanently the following day.  That
    same night (Nov. 25) The Amos 'n' Andy Music Hall was swept under the rug
    along with Bing Crosby and Rosemary Clooney and several other weeknight
    features.  On Sunday, Nov. 27 Have Gun, Will Travel rode off into the
    sunset.  Arthur Godfrey, Gunsmoke, Suspense and Yours Truly, Johnny Dollar
    were given pardons for a while but the handwriting was indelible.  The local
    affiliates, which had been threatening to leave the CBS fold for most of the
    1950s if increasing network time wasn't cleared for their own sales
    departments, finally got their wish.  In a real sense it was the original
    black Friday.

    I'm particularly grateful Chris was listening that day ... and that he
    shared with John and Larry.

    Jim Cox

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2006 16:13:39 -0500
    From: "Rick Botti" <rbotti@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  RE: MP3 Player fitted in Auto's

    MP3 Player fitted in Auto's

    I tried several FM transmitters for use in my car. I finally found one
    call "3 in ! Car Kit model 80" on EBay for around $18.
    It plugs into your car's cigarette lighter and comes with a choice of
    4 preset frequencies. To me, the bet thing about it that
    it will keep your IPod battery charged and the transmission volume is
    automatic, no adjusting it every time I plug it in. I use
    this one everyday for OTR and music. The only drawback is that there
    is no on/off switch, when I don't want to use it I must pull it out.
    Other than that I love the little thing.

    Rick Botti

    [removed]

    - ----------------------------

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2006 16:14:30 -0500
    From: "Sammy Jones" <sjones69@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Mono vs. Stereo

>     I am an old hand at recording mono material, and
>     at transferring recordings from device to device ([removed], from tape to
>     tape), and my long experience (many years) has taught me that if you
>     record a mono piece in stereo, there might not SEEM to be any difference,
>     but there definitely IS one when you carefully compare them side-by-side.
>     The difference is admittedly hard to pinpoint -- the sound is simply
>     sharper, clearer, and has subtly more presence to it. I also notice
>     that in many cases the bass stands out better.

    Glenn,

    Can you please be more specific?  How are you recording mono in stereo?
    Recording mono in stereo by definition yields two identical tracks.  Perhaps
    you meant to refer to full- or half-track mono compared to quarter-track?
    Full- and half-track arguably yield higher frequency response than
    quarter-track, but mono copied to 2-channel stereo is not stereo; it's
    2-channel mono!

    Or maybe you're using a quarter-track stereo head to play back half-track
    mono. The sound will definitely be different than if you're playing back
    with a half- or full-track head:  the right channel should go in and out of
    phase (this is not necessarily a good thing).

    I'm really curious to know what you mean about the sound being sharper and
    clearer.  A mono source cannot be improved simply by copying it to 2-channel
    (unless some tricky equalization/restoration is employed).

    Happy Thanksgiving, everybody!

    Sammy

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2006 16:14:37 -0500
    From: Ronald Sayles <bogusotr@[removed];
    To: Olde Tyme Radio Digest Digest <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  11-24 births/deaths
    X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative
    X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain

    November 24th births

    11-24-1888 - Cathleen Nesbitt - Belfast, Northern Ireland - d. 8-2-1982
    actor: "Philco Radio Playhouse"
    11-24-1888 - Dale Carnegie - Maryville, MO - d. 11-1-1955
    author, lecturer: "How to Win Friends and Influence People"
    11-24-1891 - Ben Gross - Birmingham, AL - d. 8-13-1979
    wrote newspaper column critiquing radio
    11-24-1900 - Ireene Wicker - Quincy, IL - d. 11-17-1987
    actor: (The Singing Lady) Sylvia Bertram "Road of Life"; Eileen Moran
    "Today's Children"
    11-24-1903 - Bernard Lenrow - Binghamton, NY - d. 10-9-1963
    actor: Geoffrey Barnes "Molle Mystery Theatre"
    11-24-1905 - Harry Barris - NYC - d. 12-13-1962
    singer (member of The Rhythm Boys) "Paul Whiteman Presents"
    11-24-1905 - Vee Lawnhurst - NYC - d. unknown
    pianist, singer: "The Van Huesen Program"
    11-24-1906 - Don McLaughlin - Webster, IA - d. 5-28-1986
    actor: David Harding "Counterspy"; "Jim Brent "Road of Life";
    Chaplain Jim "Chaplain Jim"
    11-24-1906 - Willard P. Farnum - Mankato, MN - d. 3-29-1994
    actor: Harold Teen "Harold Teen"; John Adams "Woman in White"
    11-24-1908 - Worth Kramer - d. 7-19-1998
    director: "Wings Over Jordan"
    11-24-1910 - Pegeen Fitzgerald - Norcatur, KS - d. 1-30-1989
    host: "The Fitzgeralds"
    11-24-1911 - Kirby Grant - Butte, MO - d. 10-30-1985
    singer, actor: "Gatewood to Hollywood"; "Hollywood Barn Dance"
    11-24-1912 - Garson Kanin - Rochester, NY - d. 3-13-1999
    actor: "Lux Radio Theatre"
    11-24-1912 - Teddy Wilson - Austin, TX - d. 7-31-1986
    jazz pianist: "Benny Goodman and His Orchestra"; "Saturday Night
    Swing Club"
    11-24-1913 - Geraldine Fitzgerald - Dublin, Ireland - d. 7-17-2005
    actor: "Arthur Hopkins Presents"; "Ford Theatre"; "Cavalcade of America"
    11-24-1918 - Lee Bonnell (Terry Belmont) - Royal Center, IN - d.
    5-12-1986
    actor: (Husband of Gale Storm) "Gateway to Hollywood"
    11-24-1927 - Eileen Barton - Brooklyn, NY - d. 6-27-2006
    singer: "Frank Sinatra Show"; "Eileen Barton Show"; "MGM Musical
    Comedy Theatre"

    November 24th deaths

    01-17-1914 - Howard Marion-Crawford - England - d. 11-24-1969
    actor: Sherlock Holmes "BBC Home Theatre"
    02-16-1909 - Jeffrey Lynn - Auburn, MA - d. 11-24-1995
    actor: "Lux Radio Theatre"; "Hallmark Playhouse:' "MGM Theatre of the
    Air"
    02-26-1916 - Dick Dunham - NYC - d. 11-24-1989
    announcer: "Strange Romance of Evelyn Winters"
    03-10-1909 - Bob Taplinger - d. 11-24-1975
    head of publicity CBS: Credited with idea of Gracie Allen"s lost brother
    04-06-1921 - Arnold Marquis - Dortmund, Germany - d. 11-24-1990
    producer, writer: "Pacific Story"; "Unlimited Horizons"
    04-23-1921 - Warren Spahn - Buffalo, NY - d. 11-24-2003
    hall of fame pitcher: "Tops in Sports"
    05-06-1908 - Parkyakarkus (Harry Einstein) - Boston, MA - d. 11-24-1958
    comedian: "Eddie Cantor Show"; "Al Jolson Show"; "Meet Me at Parkys"
    06-02-1879 - Florence Edney - London, England - d. 11-24-1950
    actor: Aunt Maizie "Amanda of Honeymoon Hill"
    06-08-1907 - Craig McDonnell - Buffalo, NY - d. 11-24-1956
    actor: Dinty Moore "Bringing Up Father"; Jolly Rogers "Valiant Lady"
    07-11-1888 - Dr. Lyman Bryson - Valentine, NE - d. 11-24-1959
    moderator: "American School of the Air"; "Invitation to Learning";
    "People's Platform"
    08-02-1902 - Guy Repp - d. 11-24-1986
    actor: Dr. Abernathy "County Seat"; Benito Mussoline "Our Secret Weapon"
    09-26-1895 - George Raft - NYC - d. 11-24-1980
    actor: Rocky Jordan "Rocky Jordan"
    12-23-1893 - Anne O'Neal - St. Louis, MO - d. 11-24-1971
    actor: Cynthia Veryberry "Grapevine Rancho"
    12-24-1895 - Ruth Chatterton - NYC - d. 11-24-1961
    actor: "Lux Radio Theatre"
    xx-xx-xxxx - Fred Jeske - d. 11-24-1957
    actor: Uncle Remus "Uncle Remus"

    Ron Sayles

      *** This message was altered by the server, and may not appear ***
      ***                  as the sender intended.                   ***

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2006 16:17:06 -0500
    From: <rjsmith608@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Mp3 rules of doing a trade

    I was wondering what the new rules are for trading OTR on Mp3 and how should
    I set up the ID3 tags?  Any help would be greatly apprecated.

    Richard j Smith
    La Crosse, Wisconsin

    [ADMINISTRIVIA: I've always been fascinated about the idea of "trading" MP3s;
    since there's no real cost involved, why woulod aonyone "trade" them? I mean,
    if I have a show someone wants, they are welcomed to have a copy. I know
    there are boatloads of people on this list who have done the same for me when
    I was looking for something, so does it make any sense at all to trade MP3s?
    --cfs3]

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2006 16:23:34 -0500
    From: Ed Mulligan <fangle@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  iPod?

>     But I was wondering if anyone has experience using an iPod or similar MP3
>     player for listening to OTR. Specifically, I was wondering how much memory I
>     would need to be able to listen for a reasonable length of time without
>     having to frequently download new stuff. Does anyone know how much OTR one
>     can expect to store on a player that has, say, 2G of memory?

    I just don't see the iPod hype.  Seems overpriced to me.

    I use an older Archos Jukebox recorder 15GB player.  The secret is using
    the freeware OS for it, not the stuff Archos installed.
    [removed]
    Free, better features, better sound, better volume control steps, etc.
    Easy to do as well.  I see the Archos having a few advantages:  They are
    still cheap on eBay.  They use four AA NiMh rechargeable batteries, so no
    high $$$ spares needed.  They use standard notebook hard drives, so feel
    free to upgrade to some huge amount if you want.  It has both digital and
    analog outputs.

    I also use one of the tiny USB memory stick MP3 players.  Search eBay for
    "USB MP3 FM 1GB" and wait for one to sell cheap.  I got mine for $25
    shipped with an FM transmitter.  They run off a single AAA battery.  Many
    different makers and case styles, but most are about the same thing under
    the hood.  See [removed]   Toys-R-Us has one on sale for
    $[removed] if anyone plans on hitting Black Friday sales.  (No, I have no
    connection to the company, just saw the ad in the paper.)

    In both cases I get more than enough listening time without reloading.  The
    big factor is the bitrate of your files.  The Archose is heavier and a
    little more fragile with the HD inside.  It gets used for listening around
    the house and in the car.  The little 1GB player works for times I need
    something small and tough.

    Ed

    [ADMINISTRIVIA: Visit The Computer Geeks and check out the current list of
    MP3 players they carry; no worrying about auction ripoffs (they're a real
    store), and they have great deals on imports and closeouts. (Just received an
    order from them [removed] for the new Playstation2 we picked up used.)
    And if you want to support the Digest, you can use our affiliate link to
    visit them and we'll get a few cents' commission should you order:

    [removed]

    --cfs3]

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2006 16:23:44 -0500
    From: Jordan Young <jyoung@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Re: Robert Altman

    Per my post last summer, Robert Altman wrote one script for "A Man
    Called X" and a few other radio scripts before moving into television.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2006 16:24:47 -0500
    From: Tom Greenli <tom_greenli@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  OTR and MP3

    I find it interesting that the MP3 format comes under
    assault about once every six months or so. I'm a bit
    of an audiophile and my friends frown upon the notion
    of compressed audio. However, when done right MP3's
    can sound every bit as good as the source material. I
    have participated in hundreds of hours of blind
    testing before I came to this conclusion. I'd
    challenge anyone in my area "Albuquerque, NM" to one
    of these blind tests. The source material is key. If
    you have an eighth generation tape you might as well
    not worry too much because as some other posters have
    mentioned "garbage in > garbage out". I buy a lot of
    my OTR from FGRA because of their high level of
    quality. In fact my family just got finished listening
    to the first day of "The Cinnamon Bear" tonight. The
    sound quality is outstanding. I'd bet my next paycheck
    that if I encoded these episodes properly NOBODY would
    be able to tell the difference between the original
    and the MP3. The trick is getting the source to a WAV
    file on your hard drive and then encoding the WAV
    using a method known as VBR (V)ariable (B)it (R)ate.
    VBR uses more "bits" when complex portions of the
    audio call for them and less "bits" during the quieter
    passages. Using the more common CBR (C)onstant (B)it
    (R)ate's such as 32kbs, 48kbs, 54kbs, 64kbs, 96kbs etc
    waste bits when they are not needed and starves the
    codec when they are needed resulting in a poor
    sounding audio file. I could get in to more detail
    about this but I'd rather point you to this link;
    [removed] If you have any questions
    please feel free to contact me via e-mail.

    Love it or hate it the MP3 format used properly is a
    great way to share OTR for many years to come. Don't
    base your opinion on the poorly encoded sound files
    that pollute the internet.

    Tom

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2006 16:25:15 -0500
    From: Ken Greenwald <radio@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Just a "bit" more on Sound

    Wayne Johnson states:

>     Here I MUST disagree. I am an old hand at recording mono material, and
>     at transferring recordings from device to device ([removed], from tape to
>     tape), and my long experience (many years) has taught me that if you
>     record a mono piece in stereo, there might not SEEM to be any
>     difference,
>     but there definitely IS one when you carefully compare them side-by-
>     side.

    Wayne, you mention your transferring is from tape to tape. There is
    an interesting phenomenon that I have noticed when doing just that.
    Let's say I have two open reel machines and the show I want to
    transfer to one machine has been recorded half track. But the
    playback machine is only a quarter track machine. So, I have to feed
    the left channel into the second recorder to make the copy. What I
    have noticed is that the sound from the quarter track playback
    machine appears to be clearer and sharper. How can this be. I am
    playing a 1/2 track recording with a tape head this is only seeing
    1/2 of that half track recording. Well, the answer lies in the
    electronics of the recorders. It may just be that your dubs from one
    machine to another are in different configurations. Maybe your
    playback machine is a cassette machine instead of an open reel
    machine. The electronics (the preamp, etc.) can be different on each
    machine, giving the sense that the new tape dub is actually cleaner
    and brighter. This has happened to me a number of times. So, Wayne,
    you are right, there is a difference. But that difference is not
    necessarily what a recoding engineer would call accurate transferring
    of a radio show. In the long run, different people hear what they
    interpret as better or poorer sound. As example, you may read the
    specs on several different speakers and discover that one of them has
    the highest specs. That's the speaker you want. So you listen to it
    and, somehow, it doesn't sound right to you. So you buy a different
    speaker, even with the specs showing it is not as good in comparison.
    Well, when people ask me which speakers to purchase, I always say:
    "Whichever speakers sound the best to your ears."

    Thank you Elisabeth for your very accurate description of electrical
    transcriptions and on what equipment they are heard.

    Everyone has been talking about the frequency range and the clarity
    of radio shows on different media, [removed]: mp3, CDs, open reel tape,
    cassettes, etc.
    But no one has mentioned "headroom" --- a major factor in the clarity
    and full range of a show.
    To fill a room with good clean sound, it takes only about 1 to 3
    watts of power. And you might be blasting the sound with even that
    much. Now, are you going to purchase an amp that is only 10 watts a
    channel? I mean, if you're only listening to 1 watt or so, what do
    you need more power for? You need more power for head room, that area
    where you have enough power to handle the signal. If you have a loud
    gunshot on a radio show, that 10 watt amp won't be able to handle it,
    and you end up with distortion. Oh, you could play the show at a low
    volume and that would be all right, but you might miss parts of the
    show if you walk around or stick your head into the closet to get
    something.
    When you have a high powered amp, you are giving the radio show
    "breathing room" so that everything that is clean and clear will
    remain clean and clear.
    The same applies to recording mp3s at the LEAST LEVEL of compression.
    That way you are getting your shows as close to the original and
    giving them room to breath in case of loud passages. You won't get
    the digital artifacts creeping in. I may be opening a can of worms
    here because analog sound and digital sound are different in certain
    ways, but it all leads to the same thing. Greater listening pleasure
    if you get the clearest sound. You can hear all the little "things"
    in a broadcast that constantly add to the feel and aura of a show, be
    it comedy, mystery, variety or what have you .......

    Ken Greenwald

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2006 16:25:46 -0500
    From: Brent Pellegrini <brentpl@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Re: I Pod and OTR and .wav

    Someone said why not put everything in .wav and be done with it. Well a .wav file
    is huge compared to an mp3. For example a song in mp3 that is 3,801 KB converts to 27,924 KB in
    .wav format.

    Regarding an IPOD and OTR I wouldn't even mess with 2 gigabytes. I've got a Zen Jukebox.
    I bought a 60 gigabyte laptop hard drive and put it in and I've more stuff on there than I can
    ever
    listen too. All the Suspense shows, all the Johnny Dollar,all the Gunsmokes, all the Jack Benny
    and about 20 other series  and maybe 50 books on tape, Lord Buckley, all the BBC Lord Peter
    Wimsey, Firesign Theater, Joe Frank, BBC shows, and gigabytes of music. It's incredible. I'm
    leaving for 5 months in Mexico soon so I'm set for any downtime. I'm also bringing maybe 50 old
    movies I downloaded off [removed] Feature films in the public domain.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2006 16:26:14 -0500
    From: "Paul Grieves" <paul@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Digital  Audio

    As many have pointed out, one of the fundamental points of recording audio
    is the dynamic range of the end product.  This is true whether we're talking
    about tape, audio cd's, mp3's or wav's.  Obviously the broader the range,
    the more scope there is to capture the full experience of actually being at
    the source of the sound, listening live.

    But there is slightly more to the story than simply the sound.  When cd's
    first came out, they were touted as the best audio representations you could
    get.  Their high quality became a key point in the explosion of their use.
    Many audio enthusiasts disputed this and passionately defended the old
    fashioned tape and vinyl recordings.  Generally this was dismissed as
    clinging to the past.

    As time has gone by, it has now been recognised that you don't simply "hear"
    sound.  There are high and low frequencies that you "feel".  Anyone who has
    ever been to a live performance of anything will recognise the effect of
    sometimes "feeling" inside the audio.  A stirring passage of music, a rumble
    of an explosion, [removed]  Various frequencies and combinations of
    frequencies will actually vibrate your body and give you a richer experience
    than simply hearing them through your ears.

    In order to fit sound onto audio cd's, manufacturers need to have a set
    range of frequencies.  That way they can set a fixed capacity on each disk.
    However in order to achieve this, the basic approach is to snip anything
    outside of these boundaries.

    Sony a few years back, finally recognised this and released a new generation
    of "super" cd's which extended the dynamic range of the recordings.
    Unfortunately it was too little, too late.  The market has embraced audio
    cd's to the point that new variants don't stand a chance.  In fact look what
    has happened to DVD audio - nothing !  The disks came and went.

    So one of the basic reasons why an original vinyl or tape can sound "fuller"
    and "richer" might not be as simple as the sound that is heard, but also the
    sound that is felt !

    --------------------------------
    End of [removed] Digest V2006 Issue #329
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