Subject: [removed] Digest V2002 #307
From: "OldRadio Mailing Lists" <[removed]@[removed];
Date: 8/7/2002 8:03 PM

To: <[removed]@[removed];

    ------------------------------

                                The Old-Time Radio Digest!
                                  Volume 2002 : Issue 307
                             A Part of the [removed]!
                                     ISSN: 1533-9289

                                     Today's Topics:

      Subject: Song of the South, European  [ Herb Harrison <herbop@[removed] ]
      Today in radio history                [ Joe Mackey <joemackey108@[removed] ]
      Community Radio                       [ Herb Harrison <herbop@[removed] ]
      [removed] stars                          [ ClifSr@[removed] ]
      Robert Hall - Spare me!               [ Peter Kinder <pdkinder@[removed]; ]
      Hal Stone and Hope                    [ "Cope Robinson" <coplandr@bellsouth ]
      Robert Hall jingle                    [ "Russ Butler" <oldradio@[removed] ]
      1936 WLSS Memorabilia                 [ Grbmd@[removed] ]
      Fell Swoop                            [ "Ed Kindred" <kindred@[removed]; ]
      Contradictions                        [ "Brian Johnson" <CHYRONOP@worldnet. ]
      Re: BOB HOPE                          [ SanctumOTR@[removed] ]
      Re: The Sound Of Detection: ELLERY Q  [ otrdsiegel@[removed] ]
      Celebrity Egos                        [ Kenneth Clarke <kclarke5@[removed]; ]
      OTR and technology problems           [ "Martin Grams, Jr." <mmargrajr@hotm ]
      DuPont sponsored OTR                  [ "Martin Grams, Jr." <mmargrajr@hotm ]

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 16:28:18 -0400
    From: Herb Harrison <herbop@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Subject:  Song of the South, European Edition

    "Martin Grams, Jr." <mmargrajr@[removed]; says, in part:

>     [removed]
>     Besides some tidbits about the disney movie, there is also a place where you
>     can put your name on a petition, so the creator of the web-site can grow new
>     names - a petition to ask Disney to release the film commercially in the US.

    About a year ago my friend's son sent her a VCR tape of "Song Of The South"
    that he'd bought in England. Apparently it's still available there, but the
    VCR format is not compatible with [removed] players. I did a search on the Web,
    and found some local video-conversion sites that specialize in this movie.
    She delivered the tape, paid the money (I think about $20), and got the
    tape that she can play on her VCR. She said that the picture quality is not
    as good as a first-quality [removed] video tape, but it's better than not having
    the movie to watch at all.

    Herb Harrison

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 16:27:44 -0400
    From: Joe Mackey <joemackey108@[removed];
    To: otr-net <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Today in radio history

      From Those Were The Days --

    1949 - Martin Kane, Private Eye was first heard on Mutual. William
    Gargan starred on the Sunday afternoon program.

    Birthday's:

    1926 - Stan Freberg

      Joe

    --
    Visit my home page:
    [removed]~[removed]

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 16:28:49 -0400
    From: Herb Harrison <herbop@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Community Radio

    "Vince Long" <vlongbsh@[removed]; write, in part:

>     We have been trying to get a community
>     radio station here in Billings for over 3 years, at least that is how long
>     it has been since we submitted our application.

    He speculates on why his local application has not been approved by the FCC.
    His reasoning might be right for Billings, but according to a Los Angeles
    Times article, some months ago, the current FCC membership is approving
    almost NO "community radio" licenses anywhere. The article's author(s) said
    that the FCC was mainly buckling under pressure from commercial radio
    stations who claimed that these "upstarts" were (1) stealing bandwith; and
    (2) stealing local advertising sources.

    Herb Harrison

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 16:30:34 -0400
    From: ClifSr@[removed]
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  [removed] stars

    Quite a while ago, maybe before I hooked up with this group, I wrote Lee
    Munsick about the alleged [removed] reputation of  Arthur Godfrey, whom I share
    with Lee as my broadcasting idol.  I recall that Lee pointedly said it's not
    true of the old redhead.  Anyway, regarding entertainers in general, who
    cares if they are a pain in the butt so long as they give us a good show.  I
    suspect that Public Radio's most valuable property, who shall not be named
    but you know who,  is somewhat of a neurotic recluse when he gets off the
    air.  I further suspect that he would admit it and turn it into a funny
    monologue, which is why he is a fine entertainer and  one of the great story
    tellers of our time.  That's good enough for me.

    Clif Martin

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 16:29:55 -0400
    From: Peter Kinder <pdkinder@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Robert Hall - Spare me!

    Phil Chavin asks -- but why, I can't imagine:

>     "When the values go up-up-up
>       And the prices go down-down-down".

>         If anyone knows or recalls the *melody* the above lyrics were sung to,
>     could you possibly post (or e-mail to me) the melody's notes?
>     (For example: "C, A-sharp, G, ...., in the Key of (X)".)

>         Plus would anyone know what year(s) those Les Paul Robert Hall clothing
>     spots were broadcast?

    	Anyone who was within a Robert Hall's advertising range could sing
    that for you while retching.  It ran in the late 50s and into the 60s.  It
    was as obnoxious and ubiquitous as the Dennison Clothier ads overnight on
    WA(Beatle)C -- "Route 22, Union New Jersey, one block west of the flagship";
    "Money talks; nobody walks at Dennison Clothiers"  Can anyone figure that
    tag out?

    	Robert Hall: not my favorite memory of 50s radio.  "We're doing our
    Christmas shopping/At Robert Hall this [removed]"

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 16:33:37 -0400
    From: "Cope Robinson" <coplandr@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Hal Stone and Hope

    On August 6, Hal Stone wrote:

>     At the risk of offending what may be many Bob Hope fans lurking out there, I
>     couldn't keep my mouth shut.  (Based on my personal experiences with the
>     man).......
>     As for his being pleasant or friendly to any of the Agency people, crew, (or
>     me for that matter), forget it. But he sure sucked up to the clients who
>     were paying him a Million dollars for an hour of his [removed]

>     Talented, yes. Personable and likable. NO!

    One of the good things about this OTR forum is that there is always room for
    a different opinion.  I do not share Hal's point of view although I do not
    dispute the situation he describes or the viewpoint he takes.

    The year was 1950, I was the lone man from the advertising agency (then
    Newell-Emmett) responsible for the Bob Hope show for Chesterfield.  I
    attended every rehearsal and every performance for that entire season
    (excluding two or three shows in Korea), some in NBC's Hollywood studios,
    some at military bases.  I will confess that I have associated with more
    "personable and likable" people in the business but at the same time I found
    him friendly, pleasant, and helpful.  I saw none of the Hope, Hal Stone
    describes.  As you might imagine cigarette commercials were not the easiest
    things for the talent to perform, including, as was the case for both Hope
    and Crosby, the necessity of singing a silly jingle, but Hope handled his
    end with professionalism and on any number of occasions when he flubbed the
    lines and I asked for a redo, he would do the bit again without complaint.
    Hal Stone's Bob Hope is not the one that I know.

    Cope Robinson.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 16:31:12 -0400
    From: "Russ Butler" <oldradio@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Robert Hall jingle

    <Phil Chavin asked about Les Paul recording the Robert
    Hall clothing [removed];

    The jingle melody is ringing in my head but I don't know
    the musical notes:

    "When the values  go up - up - up
    And the prices go down - down - down
    Robert Hall this season
    will show you the reason, it's
    low overhead, low [removed]"

    ...and my recollection is that the melody went up the scale and then down
    the scale with the "up and down" lyrics, but I remember it being sung by a
    vocal group (and not multiples of Mary Ford's voice by overdubbing) on
    Boston radio stations in the early to mid-fifties.

    Russ Butler  oldradio@[removed]

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 16:34:04 -0400
    From: Grbmd@[removed]
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  1936 WLSS Memorabilia

    Here is the text of an e-mail I recently received from someone who apparently
    visited our Web site:

    - ------------------------

    Hi, I have an autographed typed letter from Virginia Lee and Sunbeam of radio
    station WLSS in 1936.  I dont know anything about radio memorabilia, anything
    that you could tell me about this item would be great."

    - -----------------------

    Does anyone on the Forum know anything about this artifact?

    Thanks,
    Spence Coleman

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 16:35:10 -0400
    From: "Ed Kindred" <kindred@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Fell Swoop

    To quote the Jugged one:

>     In the interest of saving time, I'll respond to a few postings in one fell
>     swoop. (What's a fell swoop????)  Oh Well!!

    Can you believe that a guy that lives around soaring red rock and majestic
    purple mountains doesn't know
    a "fell swoop!!!"  Now remember that he is a transplanted desert rat and
    did not live there back in the olden
    days when the entire state had less population than that fine western city,
    Buffalo. With the influx of so many
    "snow birds" and other such ornithological creatures the native bird
    balance may have been adversely
    affected. In the past with the sun heated updrafts off the cliffs and rock
    formations one could enjoy watching
    the birds soaring and swooping. Us native born desert rats may have what is
    considered by some newcomers
    a quaint way of speaking. A fell swoop is truly a fallen swoop. You could
    watch the show-offs doing barrel rolls,
    loop the loops and other such majestic maneuvers. Occasionally one of these
    would come screaming down
    from a high loop and misjudge the altitude above the ground and in that
    swoop you had a fallen or a fell swoop.
    It was not a pretty sight to behold. The San Francisco Peaks were a
    favorite locale for swooping but many
    became entangled in the transmitting tower (radio reference) of KCLS in
    Flagstaff.  It happened so often the
    Arizona State Flyway Patrol tried to outlaw the practice of "swoooping"

    Not to be detered the swoops moved to the high Sierras where the
    Californians left them alone and with there
    reckless behavior they almost became extinct as the California Condors.
    Ed Kindred a desert rat who went East as a young man.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 16:32:16 -0400
    From: "Brian Johnson" <CHYRONOP@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Contradictions

    Sorry to hear our old friend Hal had such a bad experience with Bob Hope.
    Some people get cranky in their old age (not that I'm pointing a finger at
    Hal!) and even at 24-years ago Hope was already in his mid-70's!
    But all people are complex and most a bundle of contradictions. Take these
    two quotes about our [removed]

    According to Hope writer Norman Panama, Bob would occasionally make paper
    airplanes out of his writers paychecks and sail them down the stairs of his
    Toluca Lake home: "...(the) Lake house had a kind of winding staircase; his
    bedroom was on the second floor. He used to make paper airplanes out of them
    once in a while, if he was in the mood for that. And you'd stand below and
    grab for your check. It was humiliating. We didn't all know what each of us
    was making -- so there was a certain amount of desperation about grabbing
    your paper airplane. We had to protect our own sense of privacy; he used to
    say whose it was and then flip it down the stairs. But there wasn't any
    rancor to it. It was sort of a tasteless whimsicality. "
    (Copyright  1998 by Jordan R. Young, "The Laugh Crafters")

    On the other hand, take this quote from Martha Bolton in a "Nappaland"
    interview:
    "The best thing about writing for Bob Hope is how he treats his writers. He’
    s been the best boss anyone could ever have. In all the years I’ve written
    for him (over 15), he’s never said an unkind word to me. Bob is the same
    person privately as who you see on the screen."
    (Copyright Mike Nappa)

    What's the truth? Something inbetween I would [removed]

    Brj

    "If you say a modern celebrity is an adulterer, a pervert, and a drug
    addict, all it means is that you've read his autobiography." -- [removed]
    O'Rourke

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 16:36:16 -0400
    From: SanctumOTR@[removed]
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Re: BOB HOPE

    In a message dated 8/7/02 10:04:57 AM, [removed]@[removed]
    writes:

>     I realize I'm treading on very thin ice here. Bob Hope is considered to be a
>     "National Treasure". But I think that's due primarily to all the USO work he
>     did to entertain our troops during the "Wars". (Three of them as I recall).
>     For which I laud him.

    ***Actually, Bob Hope traveled to frontline war zones to entertain American
    troops during FIVE wars, from WWII through Desert Storm in 1991.  Speaking to
    our troops in the Persian Gulf, the 87-year-old entertainer questioned all
    the press America's new radar-invisible bomber was getting: "The stealth
    bomber is supposed to be a big deal.  It flies in undetected, bombs, then
    flies away.  Hell, I've been doing that all my life."

    For those interested in Bob Hope's radio work, Radio Spirits is releasing a
    40-show CD/cassette collection of his radio work in September, dubbed off his
    personal transcription discs.  (And I consider the release of so many
    previously uncirculated programs to be a major addition to the OTR hobby and
    popular culture in general.)  I'd actually expected the humor in Hope's shows
    to be dated, since he often relied upon topical humor from the then-current
    headlines (as David Letterman and Jay Leno do today).  I was pleasantly
    surprised to discover that the vast majority of the jokes in the collection
    are not particularly dated . . . and that there is a lot of really good
    comedy that still works.  As with most of RSI's collection, the set also
    includes a booklet (with an enjoyable anecdotal foreword by Hope) and
    historical commentary and program notes by
    --ANTHONY TOLLIN

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 17:53:52 -0400
    From: otrdsiegel@[removed]
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Re: The Sound Of Detection: ELLERY QUEEN'S
     ADVENTURES IN RADIO

       Martin Grams Jr, the young author and radio historian who has produced a number of wonderful books devoted to radio classics such as SUSPENSE, THE CBS RADIO MYSTERY THEATER, CAVALCADE OF AMERICA and HAVE GUN WILL TRAVEL, has just teamed up with Francis M. Nevins the distinguished detective fiction authority to produce an absolutely magnificent new book about the RADIO ADVENTURES OF DETECTIVE ELLERY QUEEN.
       For readers not familiar with the name ELLERY QUEEN, tHe book provides the complete story of how two cousins from New York created a detective character that became a best seller in books, a feature of several films, a radio series and later a TV series.
        Prof. Nevins offers readers detailed information on the formation of the vintage mystery creation and goes on to describe in great detail  the character was brought to the airways and how the program developed over the nine year period (June 1939 thru May 1948) of it's broadcast life.
       Everythiong one might want to know about the program: cast details, writers, procers, music, guests, etc. is provided in an organzed way.
        Martin Gram's hand can be seen in the extensive program by program log providing dates, titles and story information.
        An introduction by Larry Dobkin (who played Ellery) and a chapter by Bill Nadel, known to OTR fans as a Sherlock Holmes expert, along with a variety of other valuable data makes this book the premier volume on ELLERY QUEEN written to date.
        This is a bok that old fashioned mry readers or new fangled OTR fans should equally appreciate. It sells for $[removed] + $[removed] postage and the publisher is: OTR Publishing (PO BOX 252 . Churchville, MD 21028)
        Dave Siegel

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 20:37:51 -0400
    From: Kenneth Clarke <kclarke5@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Celebrity Egos

              I couldn't help reading Hal Stone's letter in the last
    mailing list.  While I'm sure that there were some celebrities
    who did indeed have large egos, there must have been
    some who were easier to get along with.  I'd like to know
    who they were.  Also, why were they so much easier to get
    along with than others?  Were the stars of the programs
    always more difficult to get along with than character actors?
    Surely not.
              There have been several stories I've heard from other
    collectors regarding the type of life radio performing was
    during this time period.  Low salaries (except for those in
    starring roles), last minute script changes, etc.  Could anyone
    comment on that as well?

    Kenneth Clarke

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 20:40:10 -0400
    From: "Martin Grams, Jr." <mmargrajr@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  OTR and technology problems

    An odd thing happened to me yesterday . . .

    Four years ago I spent a few hundred dollars and a train trip to travel to a
    University library that housed material about the Duffy's Tavern radio
    series.  The material was by no far complete, but did contain information
    about the program that was never, to my knowledge or authorities like Jay
    Hickerson and Prof. Gary Yoggy, known about the series.  I managed to
    compile a broddcast log for each and every episode of Duffy's Tavern,
    complete with episode numbers, guest stars, airdates, etc.

    Yea!  The first thing I did with that log was submit it to SPERDVAC's
    Radiogram and they offered the entire work as a three-part article back in
    1999.  I did print a few hardcopies of the log and spiral bound it for a few
    OTR conventions and even mailed some copies of the log to friends who were
    interested.  Authors who submit articles to OTR publications are doing as a
    non-profit donation.  I have yet to reimburse the money I spent for that
    train trip, one night motel cost or zeroxing for that one research trip.

    Now the bad news.  Yesterday, a friend who helped me with the log four years
    ago, contacted to inform me that an exact duplicate of the Duffy's Tavern
    log was on someone's web-site, with another person's name as sole author,
    giving no credit to me or my friends who helped.  The log was an EXACT
    duplicate, right down to the episode numbers and the same missing blanks
    ("no guest listed").  My friend who helped me with the log, even saw HIS
    finishing touches on the same!

    Now anyone can do a broadcast log of GUNSMOKE or CRIME CLASSICS since most
    or all of the episodes do exist and anyone can listen to the episodes and
    compile their own log.  But shows like DUFFY'S TAVERN and THE THIN MAN do
    require "research" because the majority of the broadcasts do not exist in
    recording form.

    Thankfully, the man who operated the web-site that posted the Duffy's log
    understood (especially since I a dated SPERDVAC newsletter and many friends
    could verify), and he immediately removed the log.  I have since been in
    touch with the person who initially submitted the log to the web-site owner,
    and it appears that they did see my log from SPERDVAC's newsletter and ...
    well, you can figure the rest.  Short and sweet, appologies were forgiven
    and I even sent them a broadcast log he'd love to have, just to show no hard
    feelings.

    The point is this.  Regardless of what collectors and OTR fans think or
    thought all these years, most OTR authors and researchers get small
    royalties (some publishers deduct from royalties due to book returns!) and I
    doubt any - if there are some - that have made a profit off their work.
    Partial reimbursement, yes, but the only profit they get is the good feeling
    that their book, small or big, made a significant contribution to the art of
    audio drama.  To take someone else's work and steal credit - and I'm being
    very candid over this - for profit or not, is not just illegal, it's also
    immoral.

    I'm no credit hog - there are many people on this digest who will verify
    (cause they were with me on many occassions) that I do spend large sums of
    money and bear a "damn the cost" attitude when it comes to zeroxing
    "everything" to take back home with me - and they will also verify that I
    have put other people's names as sole credit for essays and chapters that I
    compiled from research they did.

    Point I'm trying to make is: I have no doubt that in the coming years, due
    to technology, scanned copies of books and electronic files will allow
    people to post on their site (or as freebees with MP3 orders as I recently
    was informed) copies of OTR author's books.  I'm not knocking the MP3 thing
    - please note that.  Piracy of published works can even be accomplished by
    my 16 year old sister - she has the technology.

    I hope I didn't open a can of worms - it's surely a topic that deals with
    OTR and hasn't been brought up or discussed in the past - but having just
    learned that it's not only possible - but rumored that people are selling
    scanned copies of published OTR books and giving the CD-Rom away with a
    large purchase of OTR shows.  That Duffy's log was minor - the problem was
    corrected and all is forgotten.  If it was a revision of what I had done,
    with many of the blanks filled in, and other assorted info added, then I
    wouldn't have been upset - I love seeing logs expand with each revision,
    regardless of who does it.  I know many other OTR authors who broke their
    backs to do such projects will state the same (quietly or in public) but
    I'll be the first - now.
    If I ever find a scanned copy of a 500 page book or a 660 page book I wrote,
    whether it be a Morris, Kirby, OTR Publishing or McFarland release, scanned
    and put onto a CD-Rom, whether it's being sold or given away for free, I
    will have my uncle - an assistant district attorney of all things - send a
    C&D order out and if needbe, enter a suit and make it VERY public.

    I will not add anymore.  End of statement - time to get back to work.
    Hugs and kisses to all the women and hearty hand shakes to all men,
    Martin :)

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 20:38:00 -0400
    From: "Martin Grams, Jr." <mmargrajr@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  DuPont sponsored OTR

    Although The Cavalcade of America was sponsored by Dupont from 1935 to 1953
    on the radio, I am pretty certain that the corporation sponsored other OTR
    shows throughout the years - yet I can't find any reference in books and I
    faintly recall there being other programs.

    Does anyone know of any programs DuPont sponsored other than Cavalcade?
    Martin

    --------------------------------
    End of [removed] Digest V2002 Issue #307
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