------------------------------
The Old-Time Radio Digest!
Volume 2003 : Issue 166
A Part of the [removed]!
ISSN: 1533-9289
Today's Topics:
Future directions of the OTR hobby [ Kermyt Anderson <kermyta@[removed]; ]
A word on MP3s [ otrdigest@[removed] ]
bumper stickers [ "Mark Kinsler" <kinsler33@[removed] ]
Ranger's vacation [ "Jim Nixon" <ranger6000@[removed] ]
[removed] Jill [ Jim Widner <jwidner@[removed]; ]
Re: A&A and the Merlins [ Elizabeth McLeod <lizmcl@[removed] ]
have gun will travel [ knight555@[removed] ]
Re: Modern-Day Blackface [ Elizabeth McLeod <lizmcl@[removed] ]
FibberMcGee and Molly museum [ "Walden Hughes" <hughes1@[removed]; ]
Re: Hoarding [ Michael Shoshani <shoshani@[removed] ]
MP3 Player Software: All the Same? [ John Mayer <mayer@[removed]; ]
Benny Books [ Rob Chatlin <rchatlin@[removed] ]
THE OLDE TYME RADIO NETWORK Schedule [ HERITAGE4@[removed] ]
OTR Dealers [ GEORGE WAGNER <gwagneroldtimeradio@ ]
Re: Bumper Stickers [ GEORGE WAGNER <gwagneroldtimeradio@ ]
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 19:22:49 -0400
From: Kermyt Anderson <kermyta@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Future directions of the OTR hobby
Here's a question that occurred to me as I read over
the MP3/casette and hoarding/sharing threads. What
does the OTR community see for the future of this
hobby? I get the impression that most of the people on
this list, and most of the people at conventions, are
old enough to remember listening to OTR firsthand, as
children or young adults. But, let's face it, in 20 or
30 years there will be very few first generation
listeners left. I'd like to think that the fifty year
old show I just listened to will be enjoyed by
somebody else in fifty years, but that's only going to
happen if younger listeners (including those not yet
born) get hooked on the joys of OTR. To me, that's a
clear benefit of mp3s--the download sites are very
popular, and surely a large percentage of people
downloading shows were born after Suspense and Johnny
Dollar went off the air. If restricted to cassettes
and reel-to-reel, OTR will die out. Most of my friends
(in their early 30s), like myself, own at least one
tape player, but use cassettes once or twice a year at
most. (I started collecting OTR when I was 12 years
old, and have a large cassette collection, but it just
gathers dust now.) I did an informal survey of my
students (college freshmen), and none of them never
use tapes--most don't even own a tape player. All of
them use cds, and most listen to mp3s. In my opinion,
the only way to make sure future generations listen to
and enjoy OTR is to transfer the shows to digital
media.
On the issue of "hoarding": I think most of us are in
agreement that a person is free to do what he or she
wants with his or her collection. If somebody wants
financial compensation for their time and efforts
before making rare material available, that's
certainly their right, and it's perfectly
understandable. (Though I haven't seen any mention of
what constitutes sufficient compensation. $100 for an
ultra-rare episode? $50? $10?) Younger collectors
simply don't have access to the kind of rare material
necessary for in-kind trades, and I'm concerned that
some of these shows and interviews are going to
disappear when the last of the first-generation
listeners die. I hope that some folks out there with
rare, uncirculated items are making plans to make this
material avaiable some day, if only to archival and
research institutions where it will be avaiable to
future scholars. (Presumably one could claim a tax
write-off for such donations?) Otherwise (if, for
example, their heirs simply toss grandpa's massive
collection of reels and cassettes in the dumpster),
this material is going to disappear forever,
unavailable for listeners as yet unborn to enjoy, or
for scholars to study. (As an academic, the latter
point is particularly important to me.)
Anyway, I'm raising this question because I'm curious
about where people see the hobby going. Several people
on this list have recently issued dire predictions--to
wit, that mp3s and free sharing are killing the hobby.
I personally think the opposite is true: OTR would
have died off within a few decades if it hadn't made
the transfer to digital media, since most people under
25 have very little contact with cassettes (not to
mention reels and lps). Perhaps this represents a
trade-off between courting a larger audience (who
might enjoy OTR, but won't be willing to invest
significant financial resources in it) versus keeping
it the domain of a small group of highly devoted and
dedicated enthousiasts. Which direction is OTR likely
to take in the next few decades?
One change I imagine will happen is that nostalgia
will play less and less of a role in the appreciation
of shows. Whenever I meet somebody old enough to
remember OTR in its prime, I try to pick their brains
about what it was like. Many people, like my mother,
have only the vaguest memories of listening to the
radio. A few have much stronger memories, and when I
loan them shows from my collection it always invokes a
strong sense of nostalgia. Younger fans like myself,
born after the OTR era, cannot literally be nostalgic
about these shows--they simply don't evoke memories of
our youths or of simpler times, for example. When I
loan shows to my friends, they take them or leave them
based on the actual entertainment and/or dramatic
value of the shows themselves. I guess in a few
decades, there will be nobody listening to OTR who
remembers hearing those shows when they were first
broadcast. I find that sad, but it's inevitable. I
hope that those of you with such memories are taking
the time to pass them on to younger listeners, so we
can retain a fuller understanding of what is was like
during the golden age of radio.
Kermyt
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 19:29:37 -0400
From: otrdigest@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: A word on MP3s
X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative
X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain
I listen to OTR as a hobby, so my goal is to acquire and share OTR in an
economical fashion. For example a few months ago, I bought over 1600 shows of
Lum and Abner for 21 dollars. Of course these were in MP3 format. The shows
would fit in a shoe box. How many shows of Lum and Abner could I have
purchased in tape format for 21 dollars? Maybe 20. Would I be well served by
either listening to the same 20 shows over and over again? I guess because
the sound quality would be so excellent, I would not need to listen to new
stories.
How much would a tape dealer charge me for 1600 shows? I like Lum and Abner
but I am not missing a mortgage payment to listen to OTR. If there is anyone
on this list who will send me 1600 Lum and Abner shows in cassette format for
21 dollars, I would be shocked. I also would have no room to store the tapes.
Another point is that MP3ers give away OTR. Yes, they give it away OTR shows
for free, expecting nothing in return. I have been given thousands of OTR
shows in MP3 format. To see what I am talking about, check out
[removed]~krb/stream/cgi-[removed]
I would say that sharing shows benefits the hobby tremendously. How many
shows have I been given in tape format? [removed] not thousands, not hundreds.
People say Cassette v. MP3, as if they are at war with each other. I do not
oppose OTR on cassettes. I own a few hundred shows on tape. Don't knock MP3s.
They could save your hobby from disappearing.
*** This message was altered by the server, and may not appear ***
*** as the sender intended. ***
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 19:29:44 -0400
From: "Mark Kinsler" <kinsler33@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: bumper stickers
I have a 1964 _American Heritage_ (August, I think) magazine that's devoted
to the US Presidency. One of the more surprising pieces of campaign
memorabilia they picture is an anti-Alf Landon bumper sticker. It says
only, "Sunflowers Die in November." This refers to Mr Landon's campaign
symbol, the Kansas sunflower. The year was 1936.
It looks like a bumper sticker and American Heritage _says_ it's a bumper
sticker, so I assume that they're at least that old. People have been stuck
in traffic since the 1920's, so I'd be surprised if bumper stickers didn't
originate then.
Mark Kinsler
512 E Mulberry St. Lancaster, Ohio USA 43130 740-687-6368
[removed]~mkinsler1
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 19:30:03 -0400
From: "Jim Nixon" <ranger6000@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: Ranger's vacation
Ranger's vacation-
In answer to Joe Ross' question about what happened when Brace Beemer
(or Earle Graser before him) and John Todd (Tonto) went on vacation, this is
what they did. In Todd's case, Tonto's role was minimized (some will say it
was already minimal), or someone else in the cast would take the part,
usually very unsatisfactorily, since Todd was the master of the role and no
one else could come close. In the Ranger's case, usually a series of
loosely-linked stories covered his absence for two weeks, which was the
standard vacation back then. One example of this is the "Spanish Flats"
series, where the Ranger was supposedly wounded and Tonto and Arizona Lawson
carry the action. If that wasn't done, Beemer's part was written down and
he would pre-record all his parts just as if he were away making
personal appearances. One interesting device that was used to cover Earle
Graser's vacation was having another actor take his part, but ostensibly
speak as did the person whose disguise he was assuming. Thus Jay Michael
became the Lone Ranger for two weeks back in the late 30's, but he spoke in
his normal voice, and we were told the Ranger was "disguising his voice".
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 20:33:38 -0400
From: Jim Widner <jwidner@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: [removed] Jill
I don't have a lot of information, but [removed] Jill was a woman by the name of
Martha Wilkerson. For a while there was also another woman who was known as
"Beverly" as in "Reveille with Beverly" who also appeared on [removed] Jive for
a while. That woman was named Jean Ruth.
There was a guy named Jim Grubbs who was with the Far East Network in Tokyo
who was supposedly doing research on these two years ago, but I have never
seen anything by him.
Jim Widner
jwidner@[removed]
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 20:34:59 -0400
From: Elizabeth McLeod <lizmcl@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: Re: A&A and the Merlins
On 4/19/03 2:20 PM OldRadio Mailing Lists wrote:
Correll was fairly nice, but Gosden had ice water in his spine."
This is a pretty accurate description -- most people found Correll a
gentle and approachable man (one acquaintance described him as "the least
pretentious man in show business.") But Gosden was not one to be dictated
to by executives -- and he did not get along well with agency people
during the sitcom era. He was considered quite difficult by many show
employees -- especially writers, who he rode mercilessly about maintaing
the quality of the scripts.
A big part of this has to do with the fact that for seventeen years,
Correll and Gosden answered to *no one,* neither agency nor network. They
had perhaps the greatest degree of creative control allowed to any radio
performers in the OTR era during their serial days, and Gosden resented
the accelerating loss of this control during the sitcom period.
On the other hand, though, Correll and Gosden both got along fine with
employees who *didn't* attempt to interfere with their creative control
of the program. Their secretary, Louise Summa, worked for them for
thirty-one years, and was considered a close personal friend.
Nat King Cole played the piano for the radio band and they treated him
shamefully,
I've heard this story before, but I've never been able to find any actual
documentation that Cole ever played as an anonymous staff musician at
NBC. The King Cole Trio was being featured in its own programs on the
network as far back as 1938, and by the time of the start of the
half-hour A&A series, they were major recording artists for Capitol.
Unless there's some evidence I've overlooked indicating that Cole was
taking time out of his busy recording, touring, and nightclub work during
the mid-1940s to play anonymous piano for Lud Gluskin, I'm inclined to
think that this is an urban myth. (Given that Barbara Merlin went on to a
long career post-radio with the National Enquirer, it wouldn't surprise
me.)
I should also point out that the Merlins were never producers for A&A.
During the first five years of the sitcom, Glenn Middleton of Ruthrauff
and Ryan was the agency producer, and after the CBS buyout, that role was
assumed by network official James Fonda. Barbara Merlin's only connection
to the program was that she worked under Middleton at R&R as a script
supervisor for the Lever Brothers account, with A&A one of several
programs to which she was assigned, and in this role she no doubt had
occasion to run into conflict with Gosden.
Elizabeth
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 21:12:29 -0400
From: knight555@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: have gun will travel
After listening to several episodes of "Have [removed]" the other night, we
were wondering why the radio cast was not used for the tv show? John Dehner
certainly was excellent on other shows on tv, and had a very good voice for
the radio which was also an asset on tv, as well as "looking the
part". Why did they change the cast? (..though Richard Boone was also
excellent in the part). Just curious. thanks. MJ
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 21:13:28 -0400
From: Elizabeth McLeod <lizmcl@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: Re: Modern-Day Blackface
On 4/19/03 2:30 PM OldRadio Mailing Lists wrote:
The very first burnt-cork roles I ever saw
live on stage were in a Spring, 1956, production
of YOU CAN'T TAKE IT WITH YOU as performed by my
lily-white high school's dramatics club.
I can top this. In 1987, our local community-theatre group made the
rather incomprehensible decision to perform "Show Boat," despite the fact
that there were no African-Americans participating in the group at the
time. A good friend of mine -- a local radio personality, and a superb
bass singer -- was chosen to play the role of Joe (whose "Ol' Man River"
is of course a highlight of the show), and the role was of course played
in blackface. Not minstrel-style blackface, but there was still no
mistaking the fact that it was a white man playing the role.
(Surprisingly there was no public reaction at all, pro or con.)
All things considered, though, "Joe" carried off the part quite nicely.
An African-American friend (by profession a nationally-known teacher of
traditional African dance) walked up to him to shake his hand after the
final performance. He took a good close look at "Joe," squinted his eyes,
and then burst out in mock incredulity:
"My God!! This man's white!!!!"
Elizabeth
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 21:13:42 -0400
From: "Walden Hughes" <hughes1@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: FibberMcGee and Molly museum
Hi Everybody, could some one drop me a private email how to contact the
people who will run the Fibber McGee and Molly museum. Frank Bresee was a
close friend of Fibber and would like to donate material to help the museum
out. Take care,
Walden Hughes
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 21:58:10 -0400
From: Michael Shoshani <shoshani@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Re: Hoarding
Ted Davenport wrote:
I have many shows that I just can't release. I received them
>from collectors and THEIR condition was that I do not sell or trade them.
That is their right as the material was in their possession. What they have
in mind is to get some good trades for the material. That is one reason.
Another reason is that I have had to pay a lot of money for some shows. I am
sure that you can understand if I had to pay $200 for one show (this has
happened quite a few times) I am not going to offer it for sale for a few
dollars only to see it posted on someone's site for free and everyone can
benefit from the $200 I had to pay for it. I will not release it until I am
sure that I will recover what I have invested. If some people think that is
wrong, well, that is their opinion but it won't change my actions.
I am not a collector, and to the day I die I will never understand how
someone who is in possession of a transcription disc, or an
off-the-air recording, can claim that they "own" the performance on
said media and feels the right to restrict its circulation. If anyone
would "own" the material I would think it would be the sponsor (or
network, in case of sustaining programs) who owned the script and
performance. If I had no hand it the material's writing, scoring, or
performance, then I cannot claim to "own" it, no matter how many
hundreds of dollars I paid for the [removed] if portions of
it (say, the music) are still in copyright.
That being said, I hope that you and other collectors who have
material they "just can't release" because of heavy investments and/or
restrictions imposed at time of acquisitions, do at least have
professional COPIES made and deposited with some sort of sound archive
for the benefit of future generations who might like to hear how Joe
Windbag sounded on his much heralded radio [removed] after the
ownership-claiming collectors are dead and gone, of course, so they
aren't offended. Because to me, nothing would seem as wasteful as
someone paying $200 for an uncirculated recording of Joe Windbag's
only lost show, refusing to let anyone hear it, and tragically a house
or office fire destroys the sole existing copy of this and who knows
how many dozens or hundreds of other "uncirculated" [removed]
irreparable and irretrievable loss, easily avoided by storing at least
one copy in some offsite trusted location.
Michael Shoshani
Chicago IL
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2003 02:35:13 -0400
From: John Mayer <mayer@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: MP3 Player Software: All the Same?
I've just thought of something else to worry about. This may seem a
silly question, but do all MP3 software player applications produce
equal sound quality? [removed], after I've downloaded a binary file and
expanded it, it "identifies itself" with the first mp3 player I
happen to open it with. Can I safely assume that all of these produce
the same fidelity, and that the only difference in these players in
in their light shows, skins, etc., and that I can then safely discard
the original stuffed or zipped file?
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2003 02:35:21 -0400
From: Rob Chatlin <rchatlin@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Benny Books
Can anyone recommend one Benny book over another -
mostly for factual accuracy and readability?
I've seen books by Mary and Hilliard Marks, Joan Benny, Irv Fein and
Milt Josefsburg. (sp?)
thanks,
rob
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2003 09:31:26 -0400
From: HERITAGE4@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: THE OLDE TYME RADIO NETWORK Schedule for
week of 4/30/03
Here's the lineup of programs on the OTRN for this week at:
[removed]
New shows posted every Sunday for 7 days in high-quality streaming
audio. Tune in anytime.
SAME TIME, SAME STATION with Jerry Haendiges
Easter Special -
1. CEILING UNLIMITED 4/9/44 "God's Corporals" starring
Agnes Moorehead. The host is Joseph Cotten.
2. LIFE WITH LUIGI 4/8/52 "Easter Birthday Party" with
[removed] Naish, Alan Reed, Jody Gilbert, Gil Stratton & Mary Shipp.
3. FAMILY THEATRE 4/14/54 "The Way of the Cross" starring
Jeff Chandler. Hostess: Maureen O'Sullivan.
4. THE GREAT GILDERSLEEVE 4/9/52 "Easter Sunrise Services"
starring: Willard Waterman, with: Walter Tetley, Earle Ross,
Dick LeGrand and Lillian Randolph.
HERITAGE RADIO THEATRE with Tom Heathwood
1. THE FBI IN PEACE & WAR - AFRS/CBS 1953 - "Room For
Improvement" starring: Raymond Edward Johnson .
2. VIC & SADE CBS 2/17/43 "Leland, a Homesick Visitor"
from a CBS rehersal disk.
3. THE MOLLE MYSTERY THEATER NBC 5/29/46 - One of the
outstanding shows of the series, "The Creeper"
4. FUN WITH BOB & RAY - selected clips.
Happy Easter to all - Tom & Jerry
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2003 09:32:08 -0400
From: GEORGE WAGNER <gwagneroldtimeradio@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: OTR Dealers
My own experience here is thar OTR dealers
are fans and collectors first and foremost, and
some of the most generous people in any hobby.
Comic book dealers may have dollar signs for
eyeballs, but OTR dealers have radio dials.
There may be dealers who "sit on" rare OTR
programs, but I can't say that I've ever run into
any of that ilk. It just doesn't make good
business sense to hold back material in this
manner.
One of the things which I love most about
people in our pursuit, dealers and collectors
alike, us our willingness to share. When I track
down an obscure program, my reaction has never
been to wonder how much I can sell or even trade
it for. Rather, it is to distribute as many
copies as possible to fellow-collectors, for the
sheer pleasure of seeing that single recording
multiplied many times and thus preserved for us
all.
Sincerely,
George Wagner
GWAGNEROLDTIMERADIO@[removed]
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2003 09:32:39 -0400
From: GEORGE WAGNER <gwagneroldtimeradio@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Re: Bumper Stickers
The first bumper stickers I ever saw were
for my home-town high school (Bellevue, Kentucky)
about 1953. They'd been designed by my commercial
artist Dad and printed through a silk-screen
process.
These were not self-stick in the "modern"
sense. They had an adhesive backing, sure enough,
but this had to be activated with an acetone-type
solvent just before the sticker was applied to
the bumper.
Sincerely,
George Wagner
GWAGNEROLDTIMERADIO@[removed]
--------------------------------
End of [removed] Digest V2003 Issue #166
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