Subject: [removed] Digest V2007 #23
From: [removed]@[removed]
Date: 1/20/2007 10:37 PM
To: [removed]@[removed]

------------------------------


                            The Old-Time Radio Digest!
                              Volume 2007 : Issue 23
                         A Part of the [removed]!
                             [removed]
                                 ISSN: 1533-9289


                                 Today's Topics:

  Three score and ten                   [ <otrbuff@[removed]; ]
  Lost OTR                              [ "Sammy Jones" <sjones69@[removed] ]
  Re: Sustained Programming             [ "Andrew Godfrey" <niteowl049@[removed] ]
  How did you spend Saturday afternoon  [ <otrbuff@[removed]; ]
  Re: Greatest OTR Loss                 [ "Andrew Godfrey" <niteowl049@[removed] ]
  WFAA & WBAP                           [ "Bob C" <rmc44@[removed]; ]
  Re: Fanny Brice / Frank [removed]     [ "Glenn P.," <C128User@[removed]; ]
  Re: Greatest OTR Loss                 [ Thomas Butts <trbutts@[removed] ]
  CBS televisions advertised on radio   [ "Chuck" <yumacool@[removed]; ]
  GREATEST OTR LOSS                     [ John Ruklick <ruklick55@[removed]; ]
  Greatest OTR loss                     [ "Jan Bach" <janbach@[removed]; ]
  radio premium museum                  [ Gary <yraginnh@[removed]; ]
  WBAP-WFAA and the cowbell !           [ "Ted Kneebone" <tkneebone1@[removed] ]
  Metropolitan Opera broadcasts         [ "Ted Kneebone" <tkneebone1@[removed] ]
  advertisers' control of programming   [ "A. Joseph Ross" <joe@attorneyross. ]
  Re: WBAP and WFAA                     [ Jim Widner <jwidner@[removed]; ]

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2007 19:24:00 -0500
From: <otrbuff@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  Three score and ten

Joe Mackey has called our attention to an important anniversary coming up
this week in the life of The Guiding Light, "the longest story ever told,"
at least in substance.  While not continuous since its ethereal inception at
4:15 [removed] on NBC Monday, Jan. 25, 1937 for P&G White Naptha soap, let us
note that this immortal epic is the first to reach its eighth decade on that
milestone occasion.  For several years there have been strong hints that the
televersion of the continuing saga was about to be cancelled.  While that
would come as no surprise, the fact that it persists is truly a cause for
celebration.  After all, it's the single survivor of 300 daytime serials
with their origins deeply embedded in radio.  Does anybody know if CBS-TV
plans to mark the occasion with anything special on Thursday?

Jim Cox

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2007 19:24:40 -0500
From: "Sammy Jones" <sjones69@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  Lost OTR

What one series or large portion of a series to you most wish had
survived?

I'd have to say the Amos 'n' Andy serial run as [removed] least we have the
scripts!

More Lum and Abner (before 1935 there is very little, and there are huge
gaps exist between 1935 and 1940).

Also, ILAM, and Captain Midnight.  The surviving Skelly shows from 1939-40
are great; I just wish there were more around.  Also, the program ran
approximately 10 years after Skelly, and only a very small amount of those
shows survive.

Sammy Jones

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2007 19:25:05 -0500
From: "Andrew Godfrey" <niteowl049@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Re: Sustained Programming

  Like Jim Cox wrote we were very fortunate to have the sustained programs
on the air despite not having a sponsor.
  The networks back then had to have a lot of cash to be able to broadcast
shows without commercials. No radio network today probably would never even
think of broadcasting a show without a sponsor.
  Andrew Godfrey

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2007 19:26:55 -0500
From: <otrbuff@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  How did you spend Saturday afternoons?

Still, an exciting way to spend a Saturday [removed] tradition going
back 76 years to NBC [removed]

Taking absolutely nothing away from Sammy Jones' inspirational treatise
about the Metropolitan Opera (another legacy we can rejoice in and be glad
it's still there), when I think back to my youth and young manhood, I recall
spending numerous Saturday afternoons with Theater of Today, Stars Over
Hollywood, Grand Central Station and County Fair (with host Win Eliot) in
younger years -- and, later, Gunsmoke, and Bill Cullen and the Road Show.
And then ... then came the best of all w-o-r-l-d-s.  The Road Show was but a
prelude, a warm-up act for Monitor, which persisted most places from
1955-75.  You know, I never hear a tape of a song featured on that show that
I'm not carried back to the era.  If only Cullen, Garroway, Gene Rayburn,
Henry Morgan, Frank Blair, Ed McMahon, Art Ford, Jim Lowe or the other hosts
(communicators) could be there to introduce the songs again, for me the
setting would be virtually complete.  How did you spend Saturday afternoons?

Jim Cox

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2007 19:27:23 -0500
From: "Andrew Godfrey" <niteowl049@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Re: Greatest OTR Loss

  One of the greatest losses in OTR is having only a handful of Mayor of the
Town shows available to listen to. When you only have about 26 shows left to
listen to of a show featuring Lionel Barrymore that ran for 7 years it is a
great loss.
  Another loss is the very few Arthur Godfrey shows that still are available
for listening. After being on the air for 27 years only a little over 50
exist and think some of those are the Talent Scout shows.
  Andrew Godfrey

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2007 19:27:34 -0500
From: "Bob C" <rmc44@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  WFAA & WBAP

WBAP (Carter Publications) and WFAA (Belo Corp.) have an
entangled past made even more difficult to follow because of
other call letters and frequencies involved, as well as rulings
from the FCC as to whether they could actually operate on shared
frequencies. Some of this is detailed in Richard Schroeder's
book, "Texas Signs On." Early in their history, WFAA was on 800
kc, but that was changed to 820 in 1941 as 800 became a clear
channel Mexican frequency.

It was on April 27, 1947, that the FCC granted the stations'
request that they have a half interest each in the 570 and 820
frequencies. This continued until 1970. Growing up in West Texas,
we listened to WBAP for our NBC programs at night ... WBAP was
all we knew and had no clue as to all this switching of
frequencies that apparently happened mostly during the daylight
hours.

There was no sharing of TV channels ... WBAP got its construction
permit for Channel 5 on June 21, 1946 ... WFAA at the time was
more interested in the development of FM and facsimile ... WBAP's
first telecast was Sept. 15, 1948 (in August the station had
signed the nation's first dual network contract to take the
programming of both NBC and ABC) ... in December of 1947, WFAA
filed for Channel 12 ... KBTV with DuMont equipment and
affiliation began on Channel 8 ... eventually, WFAA became
Channel 8. For a while WBAP and WFAA were sharing NBC and ABC
television programming ... the old-timers say it became one big
mess and it was NBC that ended the concept ... NBC stuck with Ch.
5, ABC went to Ch. 8.

Bob Cockrum

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2007 19:28:18 -0500
From: "Glenn P.," <C128User@[removed];
To: Old-Time Radio Mailing List <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  Re: Fanny Brice / Frank [removed]

I have an OTR show, "The Fanny Brice-Frank Morgan Show". It's an AFRS
rebroadcast, and I don't Have a [removed]

Frank Morgan? Didn't he play "The Wizard Of Oz" in
the great MGM movie of the same [removed]

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2007 19:28:41 -0500
From: Thomas Butts <trbutts@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  Re: Greatest OTR Loss

Greatest OTR loss

Being a mystery fan, one of the shows that immediately comes to mind is "The
Fat Man".  To my knowledge there are only 10 existing episodes from the 5 ??
year run.

Tom Butts
Dallas, TX

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2007 19:38:33 -0500
From: "Chuck" <yumacool@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  CBS televisions advertised on radio

   I was listening to an episode of the "New Edgar Bergen Hour" this
afternoon and heard an advertisement near the end of the program about the
1956 models of CBS televisions available for sale.  The commercial said the
sets were made by a division of CBS and contained the "nine most asked for"
features of modern televisions, such as remote control.

   Does anyone know anything about these televisions and their success in
the marketplace?  The lowest price CBS set went for about $150 - a lot in
terms of the value of dollars at the time.

Chuck

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2007 20:14:55 -0500
From: John Ruklick <ruklick55@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  GREATEST OTR LOSS
X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative
X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain

What a great question. I think about this all the [removed] away, the
first series to come to mind was "The Molle Mystery Theater". Such GREAT
writing on those programs, they seem to be underrated.
     Immediately after that, Inner Sanctum came to mind. Though there are
some 150 shows, it went for years and years, and from what I have read, the
very scary stuff was early on until they started getting letters that it was
TOO SCARY! Oh MAN how I would love the entire 1st three seasons, and the rest
of course.
      Third in my mind, and this is a dark horse, is "The First Nighter
Program". This show was a comedy/drama formula that was very similar each
week. It went on for so, so long though, that I could listen to every one.
They are pure camp and take you right out of the modern day treacheries of
life.
      Then there are the detectives. my favorites are Nick Carter (MANY, MANY
are alive and well in "you know who's" vault). Oh well, maybe someday. That
was another one that went on for years. Then of course the quintessential
detective: SAM SPADE! I think we lost hundreds of those, and the time and
writing that went into them was immence. I think it was one of the most
popular shows of the day, yes?
     Of course though, if I could only pick one, BOY would that be tough,
ILAM is likely the best written most imaginative program hands down. To have
those, I could cry with joy.
      Runners up are: Mr [removed] Crime [removed] out. I
had one more, but forget.
      I guess we need to see the glass 1/2 full. Thank God there are so many
Jack Benny's. I am 39 years old. Most people my age don't even know who he
is. To me, he is the GREATEST comedian EVER. PERIOD. How much laughter that
man has given me. I have fallen off my chair laughing listening to that man.
I was thinking just today that in the early Benny's, Phil was etched out to
be  a heavy drinker. That kind of went away with time. I think some of his
very best were when he would argue with Phil, and also the jokes about Phil's
drinking. I always laughed my butt off when Phil did his entry rants: "[removed]
cool cats, you can stand up and cheer. Ring ding daddy-o, Harris is
here"....5 minute applause and cheers. Oh, that was my last one: the Phil &
Alice show. Hundreds of those are long lost and (especially the early ones)
it also had some of the great writing and timing that the Benny show had.
      Well, heaven to me, when I die, is having every ILAM, Inner Sanctum,
1st Nighter, Molle, Nick Carter, Sam Spade, Mr. Keen, Casey, Lights Out and
Phil & Alice. If I knew that awaited me, I would do myself in right this
minute. (I suffer from cronic pain and these shows help me in so many ways).
      Anyhow, thanks for the great question, and asking the question that I
think about all the time. Thanks,
  John

  *** This message was altered by the server, and may not appear ***
  ***                  as the sender intended.                   ***

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2007 21:49:46 -0500
From: "Jan Bach" <janbach@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  Greatest OTR loss

Hello again -

Anyone seeing my postings here over the last ten years or more wouldn't be
surprised if I once again mention Vic and Sade -- but this time in
connection with the destruction of ten or eleven years of V and S
transcriptions because Proctor and Gamble needed "more room" in their
Cincinnati warehouse.  This has to be one of radio's greatest losses,
particularly sad because we know that at one time these shows existed on
disks. You can hear Bill Idelson talking about this with Tom Heathwood on
his program, cited earlier this week in the OTR Digest. According to Bill,
there was a "huge bonfire" on which all these precious programs (the series
Tony Randall said was the only good thing to come out of radio) were thrown.
Eleven years of five or six programs a week amounted to around 3500 shows,
most of Paul Rhymer's life work. Luckily, many of the scripts survive in the
Wisconsin State Historical Society in Madison, so we can reconstruct those
shows as far as content and humor go. But it was the voices of Bernardine
Flynn, Art Van Harvey, Clarence Hartzell and Bill Idelson that really
breathed life into these wild characters, and in that sense these shows are
gone forever.

yOurs TRuly
Jan Bach

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2007 21:52:38 -0500
From: Gary <yraginnh@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  radio premium museum

I believe it was Dan Hughes who suggested that going
to schools with displays might be a good idea for
sharing some displays with radio premiums.  I think it
would be a great idea.  As a teacher in elementary
school I think the kids would enjoy learning about the
good-old-days.  One might also consider providing some
background information and possibly a visual helper
like a time line or landmark highlights on a chart.
Also it would be exciting to offer the class some
shows on cassettes or cds if possible to really bring
the topic to life.  All the best, Gary in NH
[removed]

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2007 22:04:02 -0500
From: "Ted Kneebone" <tkneebone1@[removed];
To: "Old Time Radio Digest" <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  WBAP-WFAA and the cowbell !

I remember listening to WBAP and WFAA many years ago.  When it was time for
one station to replace the other, a cowbell was sounded!  Now that's a real
midwestern touch.  Never did hear any other station in my area identify
itself with a cowbell, a cow mooing, or any other farmlike sound effect.

Ted Kneebone / 1528 S. Grant St. / Aberdeen, SD 57401
[removed]~stmarkch/

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2007 22:05:33 -0500
From: "Ted Kneebone" <tkneebone1@[removed];
To: "Old Time Radio Digest" <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  Metropolitan Opera broadcasts

Too bad they edited out the very things I used to enjoy [removed]

    Opera Quiz
    Green [removed] something or other
    Narration by Mr. Opera himself, Milton Cross

I have one or two of the Met productions with the narration.  Funny thing,
tho, when I listened to the Met on those rare occasions it was for these
features, mostly, not for the music!

And I still recall with delight on Sunday afternoons the suspenseful
narration of Ben Grauer when he announced the NBC symphony broadcasts,
especially when Maestro Toscanini was at the helm.  And Jim Fassett
announcing the NY Philharmonic-Symphony on CBS, and narrating the Green Room
interviews.

All that carried over to Monday nights.  The announcers for the Telephone
Hour, the Voice of Firestone, and the Cities Service Band of America were
almost as important at the music itself.

Ted Kneebone / 1528 S. Grant St. / Aberdeen, SD 57401
[removed]~stmarkch/

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2007 23:30:41 -0500
From: "A. Joseph Ross" <joe@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  advertisers' control of programming

Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 23:35:21 -0500
From: <otrbuff@[removed];

With CBS chairman William S. Paley among those leading the
charge, the phenomenon that persisted for more than a
decade-and-a-half suddenly began to erode during the postwar years.

As I recall, advertisers still controlled programming to a great
extent, depending on the program, in the early television era.  This
was particularly true of the big-money quiz shows, where it seems to
have been the sponsors who were the main impetus to rigging.
According to a PBS documentary on the subject, both "Twenty-One" and
"The 64-Thousand Dollar Question" started out intending to run an
honest quiz, but after early episodes came out pretty boring, the
sponsors pressured the producers to make the show more exciting, and
rigging the quiz was the result.

And I seem to recall that it was the quiz show scandal that finally
put the nail in the coffin of advertiser control.  The networks,
fearing regulation from Congress, promised to take control of
programming, and the advertisers had little choice but to go along.

--
A. Joseph Ross, [removed]                           [removed]
 15 Court Square, Suite 210                 Fax [removed]
Boston, MA 02108-2503           	         [removed]

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2007 23:30:29 -0500
From: Jim Widner <jwidner@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Re: WBAP and WFAA

 > How long did the station split and share their
 > frequencies for how many hours of the day did WFAA and
 > WBAP broadcast on the given frequencies?

Here is some information I put together for David Strock, a former
General Manager at radio station WXIL in the seventies, who I believe is
offering the JFK material via his entry on the web site
[removed]. If it isn't offered yet, I believe it will be
soon. (Warning, there is a charge for the CD):

WFAA came online in June 1922 as one of Dallas, TX earliest stations and
owned by the Dallas News.
WBAP signed on in Ft. Worth in April 1922 under a different owner, Amon
Carter.

In August 1922, both stations moved to the same frequency - 750 kHz.
Because they were on the same frequency (I don't know why they both
chose that frequency), their on-air time were at different times.

Once the Federal Radio Commission worked out the AM spectrum, both
stations moved to 630 kHz in 1923.

In 1927 when the spectrum was extended to 1500, WFAA moved to 550 and
WBAP moved to 600. WBAP joined the new NBC network.

In 1928 WBAP moved to 800 and WFAA moved to 1040. WFAA now shared a
frequency with another Dallas station (KRLD).

In 1929, WFAA moves to the more ideal 800 kHz once again sharing with
WBAP.  They had to divide their broadcast time. The reason they both
liked this frequency is that it had a wide open coverage and both got
excellent reception results. Working out their co-existence WFAA joined
the NBC network. They also shared transmitters.

In 1938, Amon Carter, owner of WBAP purchased the Wichita Falls station
KGKO and moved it to Ft. Worth. Because it was on 570 kHz it still
covered Wichita Falls but also Ft. Worth. KGKO also took on the NBC Blue
network.

*So now we have WBAP and WFAA (two different owners) sharing a
transmitter on 800 kHz as NBC and KGKO on 570 as NBC Blue.*

In 1941 there was one more frequency shift. WFAA and WBAP moved their
transmission to 820. KGKO remained on 570 kHz.

In 1947, the FCC dissolved the call letters KGKO and the station took up
the call letters WFAA/WBAP sharing the call letters but broadcasting
over 570 which by this time was the ABC network.

*What the two stations did was swap frequencies back and forth several
times a day. When WFAA was on 570, then WBAP would be on 820. They
shared local news programming, but kept the networks separate, of course.
*
Fast forward to 1963: 820 kHz was a nationally clear channel and 570 was
a locally clear channel.  NBC was always broadcast over 820 and ABC was
broadcast over 570. WFAA and WBAP continued to share the two frequencies
as well as the networks.   I am attaching an example grid from 1963 for
WFAA and its two frequencies. You will note that there are both ABC as
well as NBC news programs listed but NBC was always on 820 and ABC on 570:

Jim Widner

--------------------------------
End of [removed] Digest V2007 Issue #23
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