Subject: [removed] Digest V2007 #187
From: [removed]@[removed]
Date: 6/26/2007 10:19 PM

To: [removed]@[removed]
Reply-to: [removed]@[removed]

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                                The Old-Time Radio Digest!
                                  Volume 2007 : Issue 187
                             A Part of the [removed]!
                                 [removed]
                                     ISSN: 1533-9289

                                     Today's Topics:

      favorite radio-Tv stars and about De  [ Dan Braddock <danbraddock66@[removed] ]
      Michael Gwynne and William Conrad     [ "RyanO" <rosentowski@[removed]; ]
      Amos 'n' Andy on History Detectives   [ Andrew Steinberg <otrdig2@[removed] ]
      Amos and Andy                         [ "Donald" <alanladdsr@[removed]; ]
      Re: Amos 'n' Andy introduction        [ Alan Bell <alanlinda43@[removed]; ]
      Amos 'n' Andy on THE HISTORY DETECTI  [ "karl tiedemann" <karltiedemann@hot ]
      Monday Night's "History Detectives"   [ "Bill Knowlton" <udmacon1@[removed] ]

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    Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2007 23:14:30 -0400
    From: Dan Braddock <danbraddock66@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  favorite radio-Tv stars  and about Dennis Day's
     salary
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    Dear Friends at the digest:
      I just want to say what I am sure so many of you already feel as well, that
    the digest is excellent and if you are like me, you look foreward to every
    issue.  Thanks to Charlie who does a great job organizing all of this great
    material.  My favorite radio stars who crossed over to Tv are Bob and Bing,
    Charles Boyer, and Abbot and Costello.  I am also very fond of
      Barbara Stanwyck and Lauren Becall.  I am a fan of Jack Benny and have
    listened to about 500 of his program and something that has puzzled me
    whenever it is broought up is the subject of Dennis Days salary being 86,000
    and xx amount of dollars.  Can someone clear this ;up for me and explain it.
    Thanks- David B.
      danbraddock66@[removed]

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    Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 00:04:30 -0400
    From: "RyanO" <rosentowski@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Michael Gwynne and William Conrad

    I appreciated Michael Gwynne's comments on Bill Conrad. He projects such a
    personality with his voice, I've often wondered what he was like in person.

    I have some Gunsmoke outtakes with him out of character. The thing I notice
    about him is that he laughs a lot. I sometimes wondered if he might be
    stern, but the impression I get from him is that he was rather a jovial
    fellow. This assertion is strengthened as I rewatch my Rocky and Bullwinkle
    DVD's.

    Any other insights into Mr. Conrad are much appreciated.

    RyanO

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    Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 00:07:18 -0400
    From: Andrew Steinberg <otrdig2@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Amos 'n' Andy on History Detectives
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    That was exciting. An aluminum disc home recording was bought at a flea
    market and it turned out to be a rare March 1931 of an Amos 'n' Andy
    recording. And our own Elizabeth McLeod has a starring role in identifying
    the date of the episode. I said to my wife, "I bet she knows the date of the
    episode from just listening to it" and she did.

    I was dumbfounded when the "history detective" was listening to the recording
    and said words to the effect of "I couldn't tell if I was listening to Amos
    'n' Andy because the voices were different from the TV show." The real
    mystery is why a "history detective" that was researching a possible
    discovered episode of the radio version of Amos 'n' Andy would watch the TV
    show (with different actors) instead of listening to episodes of the radio
    show. Give me a break. The radio shows can be downloaded pretty easily and
    for free from [removed]. I guess the lack of research added to the
    suspense of the show. Oh, well.

    I also wondered if the Amos n Andy show fragment would ever see the light of
    day.

    Visit [removed] for my list of OTR mp3 errors and corrections

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    Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 08:09:55 -0400
    From: "Donald" <alanladdsr@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Amos and Andy

    Ms McCloud will be [removed]
    I have long treasured ALL ABOUT AMOS AND ANDY, a signed copy by Gosden and
    Correll, dated
    1929, first edition. I assumed it was worth thousands,
    hoped so anyway. Well, at least a few hundred. Saw it last month on E-Bay.
    Same thing. Went for $[removed]
    I is regusted.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 10:19:45 -0400
    From: Alan Bell <alanlinda43@[removed];
    To: Old Time Radio <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Re: Amos 'n' Andy introduction

>     A number of years ago there was a documentary of
>     sorts of the two that was hosted by black comedian
>     Godfrey ????

    The name of the doc is "Amos 'n' Andy: Anatomy of a
    Controversy." The host was a black comedian/musician
    (jazz pianist) whose name also escapes me at the
    moment (though it's not Godfrey). I have that doc on
    VHS (back in my office at work) and have played
    portions of it for classes several times. It's
    probably still available at nostalgia-type video
    dealers, where I got it.

    AB

    _________________
    Alan/Linda Bell
    Grand Rapids, MI

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 14:04:33 -0400
    From: "karl tiedemann" <karltiedemann@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Amos 'n' Andy on THE HISTORY DETECTIVES

    In case anyone may find it to be of interest, this is a slightly altered
    version of a screed that's going to the PBS program, THE HISTORY DETECTIVES,
    and [removed]

    I was intrigued to see that THE HISTORY DETECTIVES was presenting a segment
    relating to that vexed subject, the Amos 'n' Andy program.  However, I was
    ultimately dismayed by the fact that your show's treatment was less than
    accurate.  Your "detective," Mr. Tukufu Zaberi fell into the time-honored
    trap of treating the show as simply a racist caricature and nothing more.

    The segment's approach inevitably made me think of one writer's recent
    well-informed appraisal:

    "History is not well served by the modern tendency to reshape the facts to
    fit modern perceptions, to interpret the past according to modern
    [removed]

    "Misperceptions and misinterpretations [of Amos 'n' Andy] have been picked
    up by writer after writer, and incorrect conclusions are repeatedly drawn by
    commentators who know virtually nothing about the original series.

    "Clearly, a reevaluation of "Amos 'n' Andy" is needed -- one which puts
    aside the emotional baggage the show has accumulated in recent decades, and
    which examines what, exactly, that Freeman Gosden and Charles Correll were
    trying to do."

    It was just that emotional baggage that Mr. Z. seemed unable, or unwilling,
    to let go of.  He appeared to have had preconceptions that served to distort
    his view of the subject.  It seems rather odd, for example, that in such a
    short segment he would take the time to talk about-- and even show a clip
    of-- the A. and A. television show.  As any serious scholar of the series
    knows, the TV show was a very different entity from the half hour radio
    series-- which in turn had an entirely different personality from the
    long-running (fifteen years) quarter-hour daily serial version that preceded
    it.

    The fifteen-minute shows were much less dependent on "jokes" and explored
    many aspects of the character's lives serious and in some depth.  Characters
    would struggle, fail, suffer, and even in one or two cases, die as the
    ongoing story of Amos and Andy's attempts to make a life for themselves
    unfolded.

    In spite of this, Mr. Z. saw fit to simplistically proclaim that
    "minstrelsy" was the "mindset" that the show sprang from.  Period.  He may--
    for whatever reason-- wish that it were that simple, but as the writer I
    quote above, also said:

    "[Amos 'n' Andy"] has become a synonym for the excesses of burnt-cork
    minstrelsy, a catch-all term used to describe any foot-shuffling blackface
    stereotypes. And yet 'Amos 'n' Andy,' in its original form, was none of
    those things.

    "[It was] not merely an elaboration on the themes of the old minstrel show.
    While Gosden and Correll had both appeared in amateur minstrel shows,
    neither man came out of an extended background of professional minstrelsy."

    (And in spite of this, Mr. Zaberi. stressed Gosden and Correll's minstrel
    roots, leaving the distinct-- and distinctly wrong-- impression that their
    experience in that medium was extensive and determinative.)

    Nor did Mr. Z. see fit to tell his viewers that:

    "The performers also set themselves apart from their minstrel predecessors
    by actively seeking the endorsement of black leaders. Even in their earliest
    days in Chicago, the team made a point of maintaining a cordial relationship
    with such organizations as the Chicago Urban League and the DuSable Club,
    the latter the city's leading organization of black business and
    professional men.
    Their efforts on behalf of black charities were noted with approval by the
    Chicago Defender, a prominent weekly newspaper catering to the
    African-American community.

    "... [F]or such personalities to even recognize the existence of the black
    community was unprecedented."

    Gee, who'a [removed]!  Now it must be said that after showing viewers a
    contemporary news item claiming that some 750,000 blacks signed a petition
    against the show, he also displayed a headline from the Defender saying that
    some 35,000 African-Americans had happily turned out to see A. and A. in
    person (note the canny use of an immense numerical imbalance there!).

    However, this simply leaves the viewer wondering why on earth so many black
    people would want to support such an unrelentingly, irredeemably insulting
    depiction of their race.  Could the show possibly have had something to
    offer besides the "buffoonery" Mr. Z. proclaims?

    Taking the segment as a whole,one is left in doubt as to whether your
    "detective" is impelled by some hidden agenda, or whether it's simply an
    intellectual laziness at work here.  In favor of the latter theory is that
    extraordinary moment when he finally hears the audio on the aluminum disc
    he's been investigating; he confesses that he's not sure he's actually
    hearing Amos and Andy!

    What does this mean?  Evidently, that he has embarked on an investigation of
    Gosden and Correll, without ever listening to ANY of the handful of
    fifteen-minute shows available, or to ANY of the literally hundreds of
    half-hour shows [removed]!  Who knows why?  Perhaps from fear of being
    somehow sullied.  Whatever the case, it seems an amazing omission:  It might
    have benefitted both Mr. Zaberi and the viewer if his segment had played
    some of Gosden and Correll in place of the comparatively irrelevant clip of
    the TV version-- though, of course, that might have undermined whatever he
    was trying to accomplish.

    Now, supporting the idea that Mr. Z. was in fact consciously trying to slant
    the facts is this.  Those outrageous contrarian views I quote above?  That
    revisionist history?  Well, the author of those words is Elizabeth McLeod--
    a historian who figured prominently in the very segment that Mr. Zaberi
    presented!

    Naturally, she was not allowed to voice the subversive notions cited here,
    or detailed at great length in her superb recent book THE ORIGINAL AMOS 'N'
    ANDY.  She was used only to speak about more safe facts concerning Amos and
    Andy's use of transcriptions, and so forth.  (She was fortunately also able
    to inform Mr. Z. that he was indeed hearing the voices of Gosden and
    Correll!)

    Now, did Mr. Zaberi never even READ the book by Miss McLeod (or, as he
    rather unflatteringly pronounced it, McClod)-- the single most authoritative
    work on the team's early years-- or did he see fit to consciusly omit them?
      I think that either possibility is profoundly disturbing, especially given
    the large audience he was addressing-- one largely ignorant of the history
    in question.

    Once again, I believe, the invaluable Miss McLeod nails it:

    "Today, seventy years after 'Amos 'n' Andy's' debut, it is impossible for
    many historians to view the program in its own context. Years of emotional
    debate have clouded the memory of what the program actually was -- and what
    its creators had intended it to [removed] Most discussions revolve around the
    ill-fated 1950s television adaptation of the program, or the post-1943
    half-hour radio sitcom: programs very, very different from Gosden and
    Correll's original vision for the series.

    "In the end, one sees in "Amos 'n' Andy" what one has been conditioned to
    see -- and that conditioning may involve racial issues which go far beyond a
    simple fifteen minute radio program. But perhaps, someday, we'll have come
    far enough as a society to examine the series -- and its legacy --with a
    truly open mind."

    Clearly, that time has not yet arrived-- at least not on the powerful
    platform that is PBS.  It seems that your netrwork is content to perpetuate
    the sort of historical distortions that Elizabeth McLeod addresses-- as long
    as those distortions serve a particular sociopolitical [removed]  But,
    perhaps I should thank THE HISTORY DETECTIVES for giving me another reason--
    one I can place alongside such other irritants as Wayne Dyer, Bill Moyers,
    and "Disco Explosion!"-- to continue not supporting my local PBS station.

    Thank you for your time and attention.

    Karl Tiedemann - NYC

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 17:48:40 -0400
    From: "Bill Knowlton" <udmacon1@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Monday Night's "History Detectives"

    ....did anybody see this "investigation" of an aluminum disk containing a
    portion of an old Amos & Andy radio show? Our own Elizabeth was on it.

    My take? The "detective" did very little homework preparing for this feature
    resulting in the usual take on "Amos & Andy." In short, VERY very PC.

    ....and for some reason it had to end on a postscript of how racist minstrel
    shows were. The tie-in with A&A was really lame.

    BILL KNOWLTON

    --------------------------------
    End of [removed] Digest V2007 Issue #187
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