Subject: [removed] Digest V2003 #142
From: "OldRadio Mailing Lists" <[removed]@[removed];
Date: 4/4/2003 2:23 PM

To: <[removed]@[removed];

    ------------------------------

                                The Old-Time Radio Digest!
                                  Volume 2003 : Issue 142
                             A Part of the [removed]!
                                     ISSN: 1533-9289

                                     Today's Topics:

      April Fools, huh!?                    [ "Michael Ogden" <michaelo67@hotmail ]
      bbc serials                           [ Kurt E Yount <blsmass@[removed]; ]
      another War of the Worlds question    [ "Ryan Osentowski" <rosentowski@neb. ]
      April Fools joke, MASH AND mike frig  [ "Ryan Osentowski" <rosentowski@neb. ]
      Orson Welles & Arch Oboler: Where ar  [ Howard Blue <khovard@[removed]; ]
      Lighten Up                            [ "JLF" <infom@[removed]; ]
      Re: Elizabeth's great find            [ "Andrew Godfrey" <niteowl049@[removed] ]
      "Those Were The Days" strikes again:  [ "Michael Hayde" <mmeajv@[removed]; ]
      Elizabeth's nasty trick               [ Michael Mewborn <mmewborn@designgro ]
      He Knows                              [ "Don Frey" <alanladdsr@[removed] ]
      Re: Pranks and [removed]            [ Elizabeth McLeod <lizmcl@[removed] ]
      you got me!                           [ "randy story" <ctr18700@centurytel. ]
      Cincy Guests?                         [ Dan Hughes <danhughes@[removed]; ]
      Important New Find                    [ "RANDY COLLINS" <rlctm@[removed]; ]
      Re: Get a life                        [ hal stone <dualxtwo@[removed]; ]
      'Who Wears the Trousers' on the BBC4  [ "Barnett, Tom L" <[removed]@lmc ]
      OTR street names                      [ "Roby McHone" <otr_alaska@[removed] ]
      Elizabeth's Joke                      [ HK Hinkley <parpark280@[removed]; ]
      Struts and Frets                      [ HK Hinkley <parpark280@[removed]; ]
      Carpenter/Niles question              [ A Johns <ajohns@[removed]; ]
      Re: Elizabeth's joke                  [ GREGORY M PRZYWARA <gmprzywara@stud ]

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 01:16:07 -0500
    From: "Michael Ogden" <michaelo67@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  April Fools, huh!?

    All right, I confess. I was one of the ones who was totally--and I mean
    TOTALLY--taken in by Elizabeth's April Fools joke. So much so that I've
    actually been experiencing a sense of mourning for the last 24 hours or so,
    from the feeling that something rare and wonderful was dangled in front of
    me and then disappeared from view, never to be seen again. I was even
    beginning to draw up a list of the shows from the "find" that would be most
    significant to my own research. Oh well, once the smoke clears, perhaps some
    OTR sociologist will undertake to do a Hadley Cantril and analyze why so
    many people were taken in by the hoax. (They switched over to Nelson Eddy in
    the middle, right?)

    At least I'm glad that I didn't immediately post to the Digest after reading
    the original "announcement." That was certainly my first impulse. I was all
    set to declare that Elizabeth should be canonized as the first authentic
    saint of OTR (I'm serious!). But now that I see that there's a streak of imp
    in Ms. McLeod, I'm afraid her nomination to sainthood is going to have to be
    put on hold for a while.

    If anybody was truly offended by the joke--well, take heart, Elizabeth, and
    remember what Orson said happened after the "War of the Worlds" broadcast. A
    lot of people were mad for the first day or two, but most everybody
    recovered their senses of humor after that and were able to look at the
    whole thing from a lighter perspective.

    I just hope that nobody comes up with a genuine find of rare important discs
    in the next couple of weeks, because he's going to have a hard--if not
    impossible--time convincing the OTR community that his discovery is on the
    level.

    Mike Ogden
    "That's egg--I say, that's egg on mah face, son!"

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 01:16:34 -0500
    From: Kurt E Yount <blsmass@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  bbc serials

    Hearing about night of the wolf got me to thinking.  I have never heard
    about that show.  Has anybody thought about putting together an MP3 disk
    of a lot of those serials.  Also, KCRW (Santa Monica) played a show
    called Pay Any Price a few years ago.  Does anybody have it in their
    collection?  I must blush to say that I was taken in by the joke two days
    ago even though I don't like Amos and Andy.  On the flip side, however, I
    have to say that I haven't given them that much of a chance and the
    Edward G. Robinson appearance was a revelation, even though I had heard
    it years ago.  Anyway, keep looking for those historic disks.  Kurt

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 09:49:15 -0500
    From: "Ryan Osentowski" <rosentowski@[removed];
    To: "old time radio" <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  another War of the Worlds question

    Hi all:
    Thanks to all who wrote me regarding the cast of WOTW.  Still, there is one
    voice missing and I wonder if anyone can identify it.  Who played the pilot
    of the army bombing plane?  That would be the guy who said, "they're
    spraying us with flame.  No chance to release bombs!  Only one thing left;
    drop on them, plane and all!  Now the engine's gone!"
    RyanO

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 09:50:19 -0500
    From: "Ryan Osentowski" <rosentowski@[removed];
    To: "old time radio" <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  April Fools joke, MASH AND mike fright

    Hi all:
    First, I found Elizabeth's joke to be hilarious!  If you got a good laugh
    out of it, be happy.  If you didn't find it amusing, press the delete key
    and move on.

    Next, someone commented that the humor in MASH is largely visual and would
    never make it in a sound medium.  I am a totally blind person and MASH is
    one of my absolute favorite programs.  It is true that there are many visual
    gags in the show, but much of the dialogue is peppered with puns and
    innuendo.  It has always been my experience that most sighted people assume
    that, since television is a visual-based medium, much of the material would
    never work on radio.  People don't realize how well dialogue, sound effects
    and music can tell a story without the visuals.  Even in radio, some people
    never realized this.  That's why I'm not a big fan of the Lone Ranger after
    Fred Foy became the narrator.  He was sadly over-used and often spoke when
    the dialogue and sound effects could've illustrated what was happening in a
    given scene.  That's why I respect radio producers like Elliott Lewis, Jack
    Webb and Norman McDonnell.  they combined realistic dialogue with sound
    patterns that painted wonderful soundscapes.  That's also why many modern
    radio dramatists fail.  They don't know how to paint authentic soundscapes.

    Finally, speaking of mike [removed] had the opportunity to hear a Jack
    Benny program from the mid 50's, when Mary Livingston's lines were
    pre-recorded.  Its a shame that they allowed her to do it that way.  It
    completely destroys the natural chemistry and flow of dialogue between
    actors.  Does anyone know how long she performed this way?
    RyanO

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 09:50:32 -0500
    From: Howard Blue <khovard@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Orson Welles & Arch Oboler: Where are their
     papers ?

>     >From time to time, I'm identifying the locations of the papers of

    various OTR writers and actors:

    Orson Welles' papers are divided between Indiana University in
    Bloomington and Boston University. While going through people's papers I
    occasionally came upon some odd pieces of information that I could not
    use but that stuck in my mind. I believe that it was in Agnes Moorehead's
    papers (but I wouldn't swear to it) that I found reference to a chance
    meeting that the two of them had when they were both quite young which
    they recalled years later when they began to act together.

    Until the death of a longtime associate of ARCH OBOLER, his papers,
    including his radio scripts & perhaps many other important audio and
    audiovisual products of his amazing career, were stored in an old office.
    Several years ago I alerted a major library that the papers etc. could
    eventually wind up being discarded. After the deaths of Oboler's widow
    and his associate, a representative  of that library and at least one
    other, attempted to get access to the papers. As of this date, I'm  not
    sure who is winding up with them. But it does appear that eventually the
    public will get access to them.

    Howard Blue
    Khovard@[removed]
    [removed]

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 09:50:45 -0500
    From: "JLF" <infom@[removed];
    To: "[removed]" <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Lighten Up

    The fact that the release of Elizabeth's "find" was going to be released on
    April 1 of 2004 was a red flag! Without that statement one might consider it
    "cruel" but come on -- reminds me of the consumer protection warning "If it
    sounds too good to be true, it probably is!". Always read the fine print --
    even though in this case it wasn't even fine print!

    JLF

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 09:51:00 -0500
    From: "Andrew Godfrey" <niteowl049@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Re: Elizabeth's great find

      Elizabeth pulled off one of the great April Fool's jokes of all time.
    I was reading each line anxious to hear what treasures she had unearthed
    from the world of early OTR days.
      I had seen some of these shows on lists that collectors were looking for
    so it was very plausible.
      At least she didn't say she had uncovered the missing Bob Hope shows. It
    continues to amaze me that Jack Benny has over 800 shows that were saved
    while Bob Hope only had 76.
      Even though it is amazing so many shows have been saved, they are just a
    fraction of the shows aired.
      I often wonder how many dumpsters were filled up with old OTR shows by
    station directors who wanted to make space for new formats.
      Andrew Godfrey

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 09:51:17 -0500
    From: "Michael Hayde" <mmeajv@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  "Those Were The Days" strikes again:

    For April 3:

>     1949 - Dean Martin and Jerry Lewis debuted in an NBC program that ran
>     until 1952.

    Sorry, no.  The M&L show that premiered on 4/3/49 actually ended in January
    1950.  After the team's tremendous (but not unexpected) success on TV's
    "Colgate Comedy Hour," they returned to NBC radio in October 1951 in a
    completely different series (different producer, different writers,
    different format) that ran until July 1953.

    Does anybody know just how often "Those Were the Days" gets it right?

    Michael

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 09:51:37 -0500
    From: Michael Mewborn <mmewborn@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Elizabeth's nasty trick

    My initial embarassment at having been taken in by Elizabeth's announcement was
    followed by a need to congratulate her. Others have done so, and some have
    expressed levels of disappointment at her deed.

    To pull this off so successfully when nearly everyone was sensitized and
    extra-alert due to the calendar date took cleverness and cunning.

    I was disappointed to find out it isn't true, but not by her having pulled it
    off.

    Next year I will on guard and not fall for anything anyone says.

    See you in Cincinnati.

    Michael

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 09:52:26 -0500
    From: "Don Frey" <alanladdsr@[removed];
    To: "otr message" <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  He Knows

    I recently got to listen to a show from a series I had been searching for
    forever. The
    series is Jack Johnstone's SOMEBODY KNOWS.  It was a true crime type thing
    that was a summer replacement for Suspense in 1950. The opening had/has a
    voice
    in an echo chamber proclaiming "Somebody Knows!" That voice, at least on the
    one
    program I have, is Harry Bartell.

    Believe it or not, I was listening to my newly found program when I read Mr.
    Bartell's posting that he has decided to retire from otr journalism here on
    the Digest. As I read
    his words, what should come out of my little player but this disembodied
    voice loudly
    stating "SOMEBODY KNOWS!" And it was he. No April Fool, it happened just as
    I describe, and it gave me chills. For, of course, he is the somebody that
    does know
    and shared his knowledge and gave authenticity to this grandest of all art
    forms.  He
    did it with grace and  I thank you for that and I thank you for lending
    class to this
    ragtag group. Class and grace are in short supply in these crazy times.

    Please stay in touch with us and please, as you approach your 90th birthday
    (perhaps
    already achieving same) share your thoughts. I have made a promise to myself
    to begin
    each day, well maybe not every day, by listening to ESCAPE #18, for 12/10/47
    on CBS, "An Occurrence At Owl Creek Bridge," starring Harry Bartell.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 09:53:59 -0500
    From: Elizabeth McLeod <lizmcl@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Re: Pranks and [removed]

    On 4/4/03 1:28 AM OldRadio Mailing Lists wrote:

>     In my humble opinion, the success of any well-executed April Fool's prank is
>     measured by the percentage of those targeted who fall for it because THEY
>     WANT TO BELIEVE IT REGARDLESS OF THE OBVIOUS FALSENESS. Elizabeth has not
>     only my gratitude for carrying the ball on my favorite holiday of the year
>     when I had nuthin', but has earned my "jester's respect" for succeeding so
>     masterfully. It was awe-inspiring, with no apology necessary.

    Thanks, Charlie -- coming from the Master of the OTR-D Code-O-Graph
    that's high praise indeed.

    I've been rebuked by several listmembers in personal email for not
    planting enough clues in the article as a tip-off, but they *were* there.
    A member of 78-L (where the stunt was also pulled) caught what I thought
    was the most obvious clue: a recording project of this scope would have
    required a massive commitment of both money -- recording equipment and
    blanks were not cheap -- and time, commodities which probably would have
    been in rather short supply, given that the real-life Wetzel was a
    relatively minor figure in Chicago radio. I had also hoped that the sheer
    volume of the find would be another hint -- in reality, a collection of
    four years worth of nightly A&A episodes would alone be nearly 2500
    individual discs, and if you add that to the thousands of other discs in
    such a "collection," it's hard to imagine anything so huge being
    overlooked for so long.

    Charlie makes a good point here about how to go about pulling off a gag
    like this. I think the best April Fool stunt I've ever seen was George
    Plimpton's magazine article about twenty years ago profiling "Sidd
    Finch," a baseball player with whose mastery of Buddhist mental
    disciplines enabled him to throw pitches in excess of 140 mph. There were
    no overt clues at all in that piece other than the date of the magazine
    issue in which it appeared -- and at first reading, it appeared entirely
    plausible -- and, indeed, it fooled me completely.  I admit to consciousy
    using Plimpton's model as the framework for my own little stunt, and if I
    went too far for some folks, once again, I do apologize.

    There have also been those who chastised me offlist for doing something
    "out of character." Well, those who know me, and what one friend calls my
    "inner imp," personally would disagree with that. I try to keep things
    serious and straightforward in my postings here on the Digest, but this
    hasn't always been the case elsewhere. See this example for a look at
    another, admittedly more obvious, stunt I pulled on  78-L several years
    [removed]

    [removed]

    In conclusion, it was all intended in fun, and I'm glad most people have
    recognized that -- and while I do take OTR research very seriously, I
    think that if we ever reach a point in our lives when we take it *so*
    seriously that we *can't* allow ourselves to just step back and have a
    little fun -- and to, perhaps, indulge a little what-if fantasy -- part
    of the joy of living's been lost.

    Elizabeth

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 09:55:01 -0500
    From: "randy story" <ctr18700@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  you got me!

    Okay. Okay.
    I admit [removed] got me, Elizabeth.
    But I also want to admit that I am disapointed that such a find was not a
    reality *sigh*. Furthermore, I freely admit that I was already looking ahead
    to next April's financial budget to see how I might be able to make some
    significant purchases.
    Am I too trusting? Yup.
    I am pretty gullible where Elizabeth's postings are concerned anyway since
    she's sort of my hero(CUE: violins start). You [removed]*sniff*(HOLDS BACK
    TEARS)...a guy needs an [removed] ...[removed]*sniff*...one would never
    suspect someone of her standing [removed](FORCES HIMSELF TO SAY IT)...fall prey
    to the sinful level of a Hal Stone type of prank! (CUE: Violins up full to
    sting; HE ERUPTS INTO SHAMEFUL SOBBING)
    :)
    Yes. I know I have too much time on my hands. We are on Spring Break this
    week. Bravo, Elizabeth. This FORMER prankster doffs his chapeau to you for
    brilliance.
    Later,
    Randy Story
    (WHO IS REALLY LOOKING FORWARD TO CINCY NEXT WEEKEND! I WILL BE AT THE HOTEL
    BY NEXT THURSDAY [removed] LOOK ME UP FOR THIS LEGENDARY THURSDAY
    GATHERING THAT I KEEP HEARING ABOUT, OKAY?)

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 09:55:12 -0500
    From: Dan Hughes <danhughes@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Cincy Guests?

    Bob Burchette or Robert Newman (or anyone else):  Who's confirmed for the
    OTR Convention next week?  Surely not everybody on the preliminary list
    will be able to make it there?  (That would be terrible--no acting parts
    for us amateurs!)

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 11:25:19 -0500
    From: "RANDY COLLINS" <rlctm@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Important New Find

    I wasn't going to respond until congrats started flowing in on the April
    Fool's joke. This was not "awe-inspiring" or even remotely funny. This was
    too cruel to be classified as a "joke". It's along the same lines as many of
    the so-called humorous reality series of today--you know, the ones that tell
    participants they've become a victim of a biohazard just to see their
    "humorous" reactions, or telling someone their relative has been shot by
    someone innocently shooting a gun at a target range. I'll stop my criticism
    now out of respect for the prior volumes of beneficial otr work done by the
    poster, except to say that sure, we wanted to believe the news and many fell
    for it, but that doesn't make it a "joke". I saw the dates and immediately,
    audibly pleaded to the computer screen that this couldn't possibly be a
    sadly misguided attempt at an April Fool's joke. (By the way, I received the
    infamous issue April 2nd). Randy Collins

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 11:26:05 -0500
    From: hal stone <dualxtwo@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Re: Get a life

    Ye Gads! I can't believe the cranky, negative comments about Elizabeth's
    classic April Fools joke. It was on a par with our Listmaster's effort last
    year, and may even have eclipsed it. :)

    Obviously, some digesters have no sense of humor, and/or appreciation for a
    harmless, yet intricate and brilliantly crafted April's fool joke.

    It's one thing to be a big fan of OTR, and be a "serious" collector. I
    applaud their devotion to the hobby. But It's quite another not to
    appreciate having some fun every once in awhile. Who got hurt?

    Ah yes. Those who have some problem with their own egos, and resent being
    playfully hoodwinked.

    Gee. I wonder how many people I irk when I try to keep my postings
    informative, yet lighthearted and hopefully, humorous.

    OTR was entertainment on all sorts of levels. That should carry over into
    Digest postings.

    I for one am pleased to see that Elizabeth, with all her scholarly postings,
    is not some dried up old prune who does nothing with her life other than
    research. Besides, I was delighted to learn that she is far from a dried up
    old prune. I must rate. She sent me a photo of herself recently.

    Eat your collective hearts out. She looks as good as she writes.

    Hal(Harlan)Stone
    Jughead

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 11:24:56 -0500
    From: "Barnett, Tom L" <[removed]@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  'Who Wears the Trousers' on the BBC4

    Unfortunately I have a 24Kbs dial up connection and can not hear the great
    shows the BBC is putting together on OTR Couples. I am sure the Fred Allen
    was fascinating, and I want to hear the Jordan's as well.

    Is anybody, with TotalRecorder or even cassette, dubbing these shows? If so,
    please contact me offline as I would really like to hear these new
    broadcasts

    Goodnight folks, we're a little late.

    ____________________________________________
    Tom Barnett
    Project Engineer
    Lockheed Martin Systems Integration - Owego

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 12:37:00 -0500
    From: "Roby McHone" <otr_alaska@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  OTR street names

    Seems like there are a lot of Lois Lanes out there, we have ours here in
    Fairbanks too.  A few others, with OTR names are: Pine Ridge Drive, Mad
    Russian Street, Opry Way, George Burns Drive, Green Acres Drive and Beulah
    Court.  Names like Digger Drive, Calabash Drive and Bonita Street come
    close.

    Roby McHone
    Fairbanks, Alaska-where we also have a Loose Moose Loop

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 13:02:21 -0500
    From: HK Hinkley <parpark280@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Elizabeth's Joke

    Bravo!  We all wanted so much to believe, we couldn't help but get drawn
    in.  I can only say, "You naaaasty (wo)man, don't ever doooooo that!"

    HK (who also lurks by day)

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 13:02:32 -0500
    From: HK Hinkley <parpark280@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Struts and Frets

    I for one am sorry to read we have seen the last S&F from Mr. Bartel.
    They have been carefully read and throughly enjoyed.  Thanks for sharing!

    HK (who lurks by night)

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 15:19:09 -0500
    From: A Johns <ajohns@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Carpenter/Niles question

    In the September 18, 1934 Woodbury Program starring Bing Crosby, Bing
    refers to his announcer as "Kenneth Niles." I was wondering if Kenneth
    Niles changed his name to Ken Carpenter later on, and if he is related to
    announcer Wendell Niles.  If so, how are they are related and which man
    started in radio first?  I've thought before that they sounded very similar
    in their delivery and perhaps might be brothers.

    [removed] Has Elizabeth's devious jest polarized the humormore from the
    humorless? (By cracky it rhymes!)

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 15:19:29 -0500
    From: GREGORY M PRZYWARA <gmprzywara@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Re: Elizabeth's joke

    If Elizabeth's joke had been about lost Mercury Theater,Theatre Guild, or
    Hollywood Party episodes I would have been so upset I'd have permanently
    unsubscribed from this list.
    The fact that so many great broadcasts are lost to the ages is no laughing
    matter and, whether it's April Fool's Day or Christmas for that matter, such
    pranks are beyond tasteless.

    --------------------------------
    End of [removed] Digest V2003 Issue #142
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