Subject: [removed] Digest V2001 #370
From: "OldRadio Mailing Lists" <[removed]@[removed];
Date: 11/17/2001 3:03 PM
To: <[removed]@[removed];

------------------------------


                            The Old-Time Radio Digest!
                              Volume 2001 : Issue 370
                         A Part of the [removed]!
                                 ISSN: 1533-9289


                                 Today's Topics:

  Uncirculation                         [ "Stephen A Kallis, Jr." <skallisjr@ ]
  Actor credits                         [ Ga6string@[removed] ]
  Re: LOC Listings                      [ Elizabeth McLeod <lizmcl@[removed] ]
  Whistler "Bragging Rights"            [ Rob Chatlin <rchatlin@[removed] ]
  Acting styles                         [ lawrence albert <albertlarry@yahoo. ]
  Re: George's Chimes                   [ Elizabeth McLeod <lizmcl@[removed] ]
  Baking tapes                          [ "John edwards" <jcebigjohn41@hotmai ]
  FM & M and the "radio" show           [ "Scott business" <[removed]@worldne ]
  Rio 500 - Volt                        [ "Scott business" <[removed]@worldne ]
  Re:Hoarding                           [ TedOTR@[removed] ]
  Call for Phillip Morrrrrisssss        [ Alan Chapman <[removed]@verizon. ]
  Re: Finding lost shows                [ Fred Berney <berney@[removed]; ]
  Re: Releasing Unreleased Programs     [ Fred Berney <berney@[removed]; ]
  Jack Benny Statue unveiled in Waukeg  [ danhughes@[removed] ]
  New XM Radio Service                  [ "rlctm" <rlctm@[removed]; ]
  The cast of Space Patrol              [ "A. Joseph Ross" <lawyer@attorneyro ]

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 18:20:29 -0500
From: "Stephen A Kallis, Jr." <skallisjr@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Uncirculation

Brent Pellegrini asks,

Is there a list anywhere of uncirculated shows held either by hoarders
or library of congress etc?

The Library of Congress may have a list of some of these, but I doubt
seriously that any hoarders would make a listing of their holdings
available to public scrutiny.  The LOC might have such a list for
researchers; however, if so, gaining access to the shows would be for
scholarly work, not just to listen to them.  This is because if shows are
uncirculated, it would be because there would be some restriction against
circulating them.

Stephen A. Kallis, Jr.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 18:20:51 -0500
From: Ga6string@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Actor credits

For my own enjoyment, I'm interested in researching and compiling the radio,
TV and film appearances of various character actors who were prominent in
OTR. I'm wondering if there is a primary reference source for this
information, perhaps through an actors' union or something similar?

Thanks,
Bryan

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 18:22:15 -0500
From: Elizabeth McLeod <lizmcl@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: Re: LOC Listings

On 11/16/01 11:04 AM OldRadio Mailing Lists wrote:

Is there a list anywhere of uncirculated shows held either by hoarders or
library of congress etc?

Much of the NBC radio collection at the LOC is fully searchable by means 
of the SONIC database. This is one of my favorite tools for on-line 
research, and I use it often.

You need only log on to 

[removed];id=webber&pass=webb1&OK=OK 

Then choose your search parameters, and information on more than 80,000 
NBC programs held by the Library is there for the taking.

These programs are not "hoarded," although I guess there are some 
collectors who consider anything not made immediately available for free 
to be "hoarding." Anyone with a legitimate research purpose can hear LOC 
recordings at no cost at the Library, or can obtain tape copies by 
securing the required permissions and paying the lab fees (currently $86 
an hour). 

Be advised, though, that you're dealing with serious real-world 
Intellectual Property Rights issues in seeking copies -- for reasons 
which Harlan Zinck explained in a recent post -- and part of the deal in 
getting such copies is that you have to sign a formal written legal 
contract with NBC, which states as follows:

"1. You agree that the Broadcass will be used only for the above personal 
non-commercial, non-broadcast, and research purposes and for no other 
purpose without NBC's written consent.

"2. You acknowledge that, as between us, NBC is the sole owner of all 
copyrights and exclusive rights in and to the Broadcasts, and you agree 
to make no use of the Broadcasts that will violate NBC's rights.

"3. You agree not to reproduce or copy the Broadcasts for sale or 
distribution in any manner or media or to allow exhibitions of the 
Broadcasts except as may be specified in this agreement.

"4. You are responsible for obtaining any consents and releases which are 
required for the use of the Broadcasts, including but not limited to, 
consents from those who appeared in the Program or whose services were 
utilized in connection with the Broadcasts and from unions or guilds to 
the extent any of their respective members of performed in, or in 
connection with, the Broadcasts. If music is contained in the Broadcasts, 
you are responsible for obtaining any required music synchronization or 
performing rights licenses. In the event of any claim by any party with 
respect to required consents or licenses, you shall be responsible for 
making payments directly to the claimant."

These clauses are followed by boilerplate about NBC being held free of 
any claims resulting from misuse of the Broadcasts, etc. Those are the 
rules, and we have to play by them.

As you can see, it's not as simple as downloading stuff off the binaries 
groups or checking a cassette out of your local library -- but keep in 
mind that the LOC, under the law, isn't an ordinary Public Library where 
Joe and Joan Blow can just go in and check out the material that 
interests them. It's a private library which exists for the convenience 
of the Government -- that's where "of Congress" comes in. However, 
Congress has authorized access  to those of the general public with a 
legitimate reason to need access to rare materials -- and personally, I'm 
thankful that these recordings and related documentation are being held 
by an institution where they are properly preserved and controlled and 
responsible access is allowed. 

Elizabeth

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 18:20:40 -0500
From: Rob Chatlin <rchatlin@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Whistler "Bragging Rights"

At the head of a lot of Whistler shows,
they proclaim something like the show being "the most popular West Coast
Program for the longest time running"
Was this a survey or Nielsen type or ranking?  Or was it some PR/Spin
sort of ranking that was able to eliminate other shows from
consideration?   Was The Whistler really more popular than Jack Benny or
*Anything* originating out of Los Angeles?

rob

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 18:22:35 -0500
From: lawrence albert <albertlarry@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Acting styles

Hi to all:
        Doug Leary feels that radio acting reguires
more talent then most other kinds. I have to say,as a
professional actor for many years, that in my opinon
this the old apples and oranges comparison.
       Each medium has its own disciplines, one not
being better than the other. In radio acting the
performer is asked to use only two of his or her
tools. The voice and the imagination to see and
project the pictures the script, if it's any good,
paints. However, as in any genre, it is limiting. I
have seen many an old time radio actor in a filmed
project and found them stiff in face and movement. The
vocal work is good but the whole tool box is not being
used.
       Some one wrote the other day that they thought
modern radio acting is comtemptous. This is nonsense
of course. I have heard marvelous work being done from
the various groups that produce these stories and I've
heard some real stinkers. Just like in OTR. For the
most part an actor can't learn to work in all the
disciplines, however, this does not make this
individual any less talented. Radio acting isn't easy,
I know. But it is far from the most difficult level of
the craft. As I said this is my opinon, I love OTR and
all that goes with it, but it is only one branch of
the a very large tree.
         Regards
          Larry Albert

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 18:30:43 -0500
From: Elizabeth McLeod <lizmcl@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: Re: George's Chimes

George Wagner clarifies:

    Elizabeth, the "sound" I'm talking about comes at
the end of the two (?) surviving 1931 Wendall Hall
broadcasts.

You're hearing a five-note variant of the NBC chimes (and Bill Harris has
a WAV of this variant on his excellent NBC Chimes website). It shows up
at the end of the 2/4/31 Hall broadcast and Mike Biel has spoken of
having another circa-1931 aircheck with such a five-note sequence. As far
as I know these are the only two recordings to preserve this chime -- and
my conjecture is that the five-note sequence was a Blue network
signifier, since a recording from 1930 does exist of a seven-note chime
being used on a Red network broadcast. There is another five-note
sequence extant on the 1929 "Light's Golden Jubilee" broadcast, but it's
not identical to the 1931 versions. Indications from surviving recordings
seem to be that the G-E-C chimes were not fully standardized until late
1931 or early 1932 -- the earliest example I've heard dates to March 1932.

Interestingly, most of the circulating copies of the 2/4/31 Hall
broadcast are missing an important element: the station ID for WTMJ,
Milwaukee which is heard on the original discs at the very beginning of
the program, in which WTMJ rings its *own, local* sequence of chimes.
These differ from the NBC version heard at the end. Many stations during
the thirties used chimes as local trademarks, and not all of these were
NBC affiliates -- WGN in Chicago used local chimes in the early thirties,
and I've heard a 1936 recording of a tiny time-sharing independent
station in Brooklyn signing on with its own elaborate chime sequence.

Elizabeth

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 18:55:21 -0500
From: "John edwards" <jcebigjohn41@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Baking tapes

Many thanks to those who replied to me personally and via OTR Digest about
baking reel to reel tapes.  See you can "teach an old dog to change his
spots (or is it new tricks).
   I don't know if there are a lot of people like me (born Nov l941) that
are old enough to be exposed to much of the so called golden age of radio,
but I never paid much attention to it until around 1952.  Of course I
remember listening to some of the programs that my parents had on in the
evening (mostly detective & crime shows)but never had any imput on what was
listened to. I'm thankful to the hobby of OTR to allowing me to hear some of
the shows that were not listened to back then.  If "Gangbusters" was on that
meant at least 3 or 4 other network shows at the same time were not being
listened to.
   Also I'm amazed at how much my taste in programs has changed from
teenager or early 20s to what I really find great now.  Several I really
loved 40 or so years ago are [removed] but I wonder why I found it so great then.
  Other shows Like Jack Benny, Lum & Abner and several others I like so much
better now than back then.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 18:55:59 -0500
From: "Scott business" <[removed]@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: FM & M and the "radio" show

Bill Harris wrote:

I have a tape of this program, the tape is titled "Radio's Super
Stars", no date though.

Anyone have the date of this show? I looked through my listing and couldn't
find it. Don't remember having listened to it before but would like to. Any
help would be appreciated.

Scott

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 18:56:38 -0500
From: "Scott business" <[removed]@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: Rio 500 - Volt

Brian asked:

Recently someone posted info on where to get the discontinued Rio
Volt 500.
How does that model differ from the 100, which is on the Rio Volt
web site? Is the 100 still available?

The Rio Volt is similar ro a regular portable CD player and plays MP3's
directly off of the disc. The Rio 500 is a small pocket portable about the
size of a pack of Camel Unfiltered cigarretts only about half as thick. It
requires that the MP3 programs be transfered to it from a computer via a USB
cable. Although more of a hassle to load, it is much more portable, compact
and has no moving parts so there is no skip at all. I have both and use th
Volt when commutting in my company truck but ALWAYS have my 500 for flying,
sitting in airports, listening in hotel rooms etc. I LOVE MY 500! Actually I
love all three of them that I have. Hope that this helps. By the way, the
Rio site has information on the Volt but does not show the 500 any more as
it has been discontinued. The site address is [removed]

Scott

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 18:57:27 -0500
From: TedOTR@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Re:Hoarding

Brent writes:

Is there a list anywhere of uncirculated shows held either by hoarders or
library of congress etc?<<

I am sure there is a list of the holdings of the Library of Congress
somewhere.  But a list of uncirculated shows held by collector's that don't
want them circulated?  No earthly way.  If a collector put out a list of the
shows he is holding back, he would be flooded with requests for the show
saying "I promise it won't go any further".  Every large collector has shows
that he can't put into circulation due to the agreement he made with the
source.  I have them, and I feel quite certain, that all major collector's
that have been around for a long time do as well.  We don't hoard them to
keep them away from people, it is just the agreement we had to make to get
them.  Let's say someone approaches you and offers you 100 TOM MIX programs
if you promise they are to go no farther.  Are you going to take them or tell
the person that if I can't distribute them I would rather not have them?  I
don't know about you, but I am going to take them and abide by any
restrictions he puts on them.  I don't hold back any shows unless I have
agreed to do that in order to get the shows.  If I've learned anything in
this hobby it is to keep your word, no matter what.  If you go back on your
word a few times you will find yourself blackballed by the people that you
need the most.  It would also be extremely against my nature to do that.  In
building a trading relationship trust is the thing that must be established
first.  Personally, I am not going to have any dealings with someone that I
can't trust.

Ted Davenport
Radio Memories

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 20:11:22 -0500
From: Alan Chapman <[removed]@[removed];
To: Old-Time Radio Digest <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: Call for Phillip Morrrrrisssss

In a New York Times story today about Phillip Morris, Inc. changing
its name to the Altria Group, reporter John Schwartz makes some
references to OTR and that other box. The story is accompanied by a
photo of Johnny Rovatini in his bellhop uniform.

The radio reference is:
"Call for Altria" doesn't have the ring of the company's "Call for
Philip Morrrrrrisssss!" slogan from radio's golden age.

The other-box reference is:
 "It's sort of like the line from the Dragnet TV show, `This story is
true, but the names have been changed to protect the innocent,'"

Here's full story:

[removed]

Alan Chapman

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 20:19:35 -0500
From: Fred Berney <berney@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Re: Finding lost shows

Just had a great idea for finding lost program. With all the fine minds on
this list, if one of us could build a time machine and then go back and
record the lost shows.

Guess I've been watching too many "7 Days" and "Time Tunnel Shows".

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 21:03:53 -0500
From: Fred Berney <berney@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Re: Releasing Unreleased Programs

There has been some very interesting postings on how to put shows into
circulation and re-coup the cost before they end up on the Net as MP3 files.

For the last several years, I've been working on transferring my reel to
reel tapes of No School Today to CD and cassettes. When they are completely
transferred, I think I'll following some of the suggestions given here.

 From what I have found out, I may have the only recordings of the program,
that came from the 1950s broadcast. Most of the programs that are now in
circulation were from the re-broadcast when Jon Arthur moved to California.

I personally recorded 150 programs from 1952 until the late 1950's. These
are first generation "off the air" recordings.

Which bring up another subject. I was only recently aware of Jay's fabulous
log of available programs. What I didn't realize was how the information
got into the log. I though it was all done through his research. This is
probably true for a good majority of the programs, but Jay told me that
some of the shows are put in the log from information he receives from
dealers and collectors. The person who let's Jay know he has the show first
gets the listing.

The only drawback I can see from this, and please Jay, this is in no way a
criticism of the excellent work you have done with your log, is that the
name of the person or dealer that is listed in the log, may not be the
person who has the original material.

One example was a University of Miami program that was done when I was back
in college. I even appeared in one of the shows. Anyway, I've had this show
in my catalog since the 70's, when I first put my catalog together. I got
the shows by recording them off the air.

Well, over the years, I've sold or traded these shows with many other
collectors. One of them wrote to Jay and let him know that he had these
shows. So, now that program is listed in the log and has this dealer as a
source for the program.

What this person has is a third generation tape. So, when he makes copies,
he is actually giving out 4th generations. And if he backed up the tape and
used the backup for making copies, then it becomes a 5th generation.

My original tape is on reel to reel. When I make up CDs, I go back to the
original reel to reel tape to make the CD master. Cassettes are made from a
master cassette that is made from the reel to reel tapes.

My whole point of this is that it would be nice if somehow, we could find
out who had the original tape of a particular program. This would have been
very helpful back when I was doing a lot of trading. It would have been
nice to have gotten some shows from the person who first found them rather
than from the third or fourth person. This would have eliminated some of
the cross talk and tape noise problems that now exist in some programs.

Another reason why I like using a digital format. But, I'm not going to get
into that right now. Enough has already been said and said very well.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 21:04:05 -0500
From: danhughes@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Jack Benny Statue unveiled in Waukegan

The Waukegan Jack Benny statue was unveiled Thursday.  A "formal"
unveiling is set for "maybe June."  I for one am disappointed that no
publicity was given to the showing of the statue.  Here's the story:

[removed]

---Dan

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 09:20:12 -0500
From: "rlctm" <rlctm@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: New XM Radio Service

I just wanted to let everyone know that the new satellite radio service XM
Radio is supposedly up and running according to their website. Almost 200
radio "channels" available via satellite in your home or car. You can see
their website at [removed]. For $[removed] a month, one is supposed
to have access to these various format channels. However, I was totally
disappointed and frustrated that nowhere in their programming guide was old
time radio mentioned. There were channels devoted to 40's and 50's music; to
broadway tunes; variety etc., but nothing mentioned about radio shows, new
or old. There was one vague mention of "The Caine Mutiny" on the broadway
channel, but no description regarding the production that I could find. Does
anyone have any information on this new service's inability to use one
channel for otr--yeah, I know the "rights" issues and so on; but this is
obviously a first-class, multi-million dollar operation here; securing the
rights to install their service in new 2002 Cadillacs, Saabs, and even more
autos in 2003 according to their web site. Money for rights should not be
that big of a hurdle to overcome for these people, at least on some shows,
not to mention legitimate public domain material. Why has otr been either
overlooked, ignored, or been unattainable to them? Seems as though if any
organization could negotiate for "broadcast" rights to some of our
favorites, this is it. They seem to have negotiated with Disney for a kids
channel, with CNN, multitudes of various talk-radio shows, sports networks,
etc. Have we been completely overlooked or are we never going to see a major
national player be able to bring together the resources and "rights" issues
to bring our hobby to the masses in a project like this? Check out their
site--I may still subscribe due to the variety of programming, especially
the Christian channels described; but does anyone have an answer to the otr
omission? I emailed their program directors--if I get a reply, I'll be post
it here. Thanks. Randy Collins.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 09:21:28 -0500
From: "A. Joseph Ross" <lawyer@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: The cast of Space Patrol

Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 10:58:56 -0500
From: "dick wamser" <snapp@[removed];

Anyway, he has a question he wanted to ask you all out there about
what happened to the original cast of "SPACE PATROL?"  What was
their career trail after the show was discontinued.

Ed Kemmer (Commander Corry) played in soap operas and, for many years, played a lawyer on 
"As the World Turns."  He's retired now and living in New York.  Lyn Osborne (Cadet Happy) 
died in 1958 of a brain tumor, I think.  Nina Bara (Tonga) wrote and privately published a couple 
of books of Space Patrol memories.  She left acting and raised a family in California.  She died 
within the past few years, I think.

A lot of information about Space Patrol, Tom Corbett, and other old science fiction shows can be 
found at [removed]

 A. Joseph Ross, [removed]                                         [removed]
  15 Court Square, Suite 210                      lawyer@[removed]
 Boston, MA 02108-2503           	         [removed]

--------------------------------
End of [removed] Digest V2001 Issue #370
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