Subject: [removed] Digest V2003 #233
From: "OldRadio Mailing Lists" <[removed]@[removed];
Date: 6/12/2003 8:17 AM

To: <[removed]@[removed];

    ------------------------------

                                The Old-Time Radio Digest!
                                  Volume 2003 : Issue 233
                             A Part of the [removed]!
                                     ISSN: 1533-9289

                                     Today's Topics:

      OTR TV                                [ skallisjr@[removed] ]
      OTR television revivals               [ "Bob Watson" <crw934@[removed]; ]
      OTR Television Revivals               [ Don Polite <hawkeye8347@[removed]; ]
      Re: First Network Political Coverage  [ shoshani@[removed] ]
      Re: NBC in 1924?                      [ Elizabeth McLeod <lizmcl@[removed] ]
      TV rehash of OTR shows                [ Kermyt Anderson <kermyta@[removed]; ]
      Germert Case                          [ Jim Widner <jwidner@[removed]; ]
      See what you're missing               [ JackBenny@[removed] ]
      Joe E. Brown                          [ wa5pdk@[removed] ([removed] L.) ]
      Radio shows on TV                     [ Jim Widner <jwidner@[removed]; ]
      Re:OTR reworked for TV                [ Dixonhayes@[removed] ]
      OTR to TV                             [ "Alain Altounian" <[removed]@[removed] ]
      AM/FM Stereo                          [ "glen schroeder" <gschroeder10@char ]
      OTR revivals                          [ Kenneth Clarke <kclarke5@[removed]; ]
      NBC predecessors                      [ "Ed Ellers" <kd4awq@[removed]; ]
      OTR That Would Make Bad TV            [ Dennis W Crow <DCrow3@[removed] ]
      OTR Television Revivals               [ Herb Harrison <herbop@[removed] ]
      Today in radio history                [ Joe Mackey <joemackey108@[removed] ]
      otr television revivals               [ michael chatterton <chat51@comcast. ]
      Seeking Lone Ranger [removed]          [ bruceglazer@[removed] ]

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 19:56:08 -0400
    From: skallisjr@[removed]
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  OTR TV

    With the appearance of several OTR shows on recent TV, Charlie Summers
    asks,

>     assuming it were done RIGHT, whatever the heck that [removed] OTR
>     show would you like to see re-made for today's television audience? Which
>     shows do you think would translate well to the small screen?
>     And which shows wouldn't work at all, no matter how faithful to the
>     original (or even _because_ they were faithful to the original)?

    The Lone Ranger, if done right, would work.  With Clayton Moore, it
    already came close.

    The Green Hornet could work.  It couldn't be  like the 1960s attempt,
    though.

    The Shadow almost worked as an Alec Baldwin film.  It could be made to
    work on TV.

    Big Town appeared on early TV for a while.  Why not now?

    On the other hand, many OTR comedies would have tough sledding to retain
    fidelity to their OTR origins.

    Mr. Keen, Tracer of Lost Persons probably would have difficulties being
    faithful to its origin.

    Stephen A. Kallis, Jr.

    Also, Captain Midnight wouldn't work, except possibly as a miniseries.
    Its plots are too complex for even n hour TV show.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 20:07:56 -0400
    From: "Bob Watson" <crw934@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  OTR television revivals

    My vote would be for Gunsmoke.  While the TV series was good, it just
    doesn't compare to the radio version, which was darker and didn't have as
    many 'happy' endings.  I think scripts from the radio series could be
    brought to television today with very little, if any, of the editing/script
    changes done when the original series was brought to television.

    Bob

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 20:47:04 -0400
    From: Don Polite <hawkeye8347@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  OTR Television Revivals

    Hi,
         In response to Charlie's question about which OTR
    shows we would like to see revived to the TV screen, I
    vote for Amos n Andy.  I know that it would be next to
    impossible for that to happen, but I still would like
    to see it.  Here's hoping that Elizabeth M. could
    persuade the world that it has somehow erred in it's
    premature burial of this great comedy.  In comparison
    to some of the shows I have viewed in the last 25
    years, it is quite mild.

    Don Polite
    Lewes, Delaware

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 20:47:31 -0400
    From: shoshani@[removed]
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Re: First Network Political Coverage

    Jim Cox writes:

> >     1924 - The first political convention on radio was presented by NBC.
> >     Graham McNamee provided coverage of the Republican National Convention
> >     from Cleveland, OH

>     Marc Robinson's "Brought to You in Living Color:  75 Years of Great
>     Moments in Television & Radio from NBC" released last year authenticates
>     what we've known forever, that the formation of NBC is pegged to a
>     four-and-a-half-hour gala inaugural broadcast occurring on November 15,
>     1926.  "More than a thousand of New York's most glamorous society and
>     show business figures gathered in the Grand Ballroom of the
>     Waldorf-Astoria Hotel "

>     Could someone explain how the NETWORK preexisted this date in 1924?

    My guess is that this is a "back-dating" of NBC to the original AT&T network.
    AT&T built their network, anchored around WEAF, in 1924.  NBC's original
    network, in 1926, was anchored around WJZ.  This original NBC network was the
    "Blue" Network; the "Red" Network, which was the 1924 AT&T hookup, was acquired
    by NBC not long after they started operations. (Not a simple story but I don't
    know how to condense it to the paramaters of OTR-D.)

    Thus, the NBC network in name dates back to 1926, however, its oldest component
    dates back to 1924.

    I actually don't understand why modern corporate logic is not imposed, with NBC
    fully claiming to go back to 1924 and ABC, which was once the Blue Network,
    dating itself all the way back to [removed]

    Michael Shoshani
    Chicago IL

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 20:48:53 -0400
    From: Elizabeth McLeod <lizmcl@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Re: NBC in 1924?

    On 6/11/03 8:08 PM OldRadio Mailing Lists wrote:

>     Could someone explain how the NETWORK preexisted this date in 1924?

    This is an example of confusing NBC with the network which *preceded* it,
    the hookup of stations which was generally called either the "Telephone
    Group" or the "Red Network." This network grew out of ad-hoc linkages of
    stations during 1924 promoted by AT&T, and anchored by WEAF, New York and
    WCAP, Washington.

    The 1924 conventions were broadcast over an ad-hoc AT&T network (as well
    as a much smaller, unrelated network promoted by RCA and known as the
    "Radio Group.") The success of this hookup on a national basis prompted
    AT&T to begin operating the chain on a regular basis. It was on an
    partial schedule into 1925, but by 1926 was offering programming on a
    full schedule to its affliates, including such programs as the Eveready
    Hour, the Ipana Troubadours, the Gold Dust Twins, the A&P Gypsies, the
    Clicqout Club Eskimoes, and the B. F. Goodrich Silvertown Cord Orchestra
    featuring the Silver Masked Tenor. All of these commercial programs were
    being distributed by the Red Network on a national basis for months prior
    to the NBC Inaugural Broadcast.

    The Red Network was sold, as an operating entity, to NBC in September of
    1926, and the new organization took over its operation in November.  Thus
    November 15th marked the beginning of *NBC,* but not the beginning of the
    Red Network. NBC's internal publicity machine made a careful point of
    obliterating public memory of as much of the Red Network's pre-NBC
    existance as it could get away with -- but examination of radio
    publications of the 1925-26 period reveals that the Red Network was a
    fully viable, successful operation long before Sarnoff, Ayelsworth, and
    company entered the picture.

    Elizabeth

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 21:15:38 -0400
    From: Kermyt Anderson <kermyta@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  TV rehash of OTR shows

    We all know some OTR shows made successful transitions
    to television--I'm sure we could all name several with
    no trouble. ("Gunsmoke" still holds the record for
    longest running dramatic program on tv.) And many OTR
    shows failed miserably upon transfering to tv--The
    Great Gildersleeve and Fibber McGee and Molly both
    come to mind as well-known examples. But it's
    interesting that there are many OTR shows which made
    the transfer--some more successfully than others--but
    which we seem to have forgotten about. Several of them
    have been named in the thread that Charlie just
    started. I've been meaning to ask about these shows
    for a while--were they any good? Do any episodes still
    survive? Here's a partial list of shows that moved
    from radio to television, but which I don't think are
    that widely known to have done so. (All culled from
    [removed])

    "Halls of Ivy, The" TV-Series 1954-1955
    38 or 39 episodes
    (This one actually starred the Colmans, and cost
    $50,000 per episode--one of the most expensive shows
    of its time)

    "Richard Diamond, Private Detective" TV-Series
    1957-1960

    "Bold Venture" (1959)
    39 eps

    "Tales of the Texas Rangers" TV-Series 1955-1959
    52 episodes

    "It Pays to Be Ignorant" TV-Series 1949-1951

    "One Man's Family" TV-Series 1949-1952

    "Our Miss Brooks" TV-Series 1952-1956

    "Third Man, The" TV-Series 1959-1965
    (77 episodes)

    Now ain't that interesting?
    Kermyt

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 21:28:32 -0400
    From: Jim Widner <jwidner@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Germert Case

    I received this recently at my web site. If anyone can help, please contact
    the sender directly:

    - --
    From: "cheryl nadasi" <cheryln93@[removed];
    To: jwidner@[removed]
    Subject: Gernert Case
    Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 00:10:07 -0400

    Dear Sir,
          I am doing a Family Genealogy and one of my realatives is a man
     called Gernert Case an old country western singer who sang on the
     [removed] called him the Kentucky [removed] you happen to know
     anything about this [removed] bit of information would help,or maybe you
     would know someone who could [removed] You for your [removed],Cheryl
     Nadasi.

    Jim Widner
    jwidner@[removed]

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 23:41:24 -0400
    From: JackBenny@[removed]
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  See what you're missing
    X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative
    X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain

    Michael Biel wrote:

>     I didn't watch these two TV
>     series, but I did watch and listen in stereo to the special edition of The
>     George Gobel Show on October 21, 1958, sponsored by RCA Victor to promote
>     Living Stereo and Living Color.  There was a special sealed centerfold in
>     TV Guide that when unfolded during a certain commercial and placed over the
>     lower half of the screen would show us peasants what we were missing by not
>     having a color TV.

    Off-topic, I know, but I had to add this bit that I recently read in Leo
    Gorcey Jr.'s "Me And the Dead End Kid" (available from
    [removed] ):

    "First thing I noticed, when Uncle Lee turned on the portable TV with the
    rabbit ears, was the strip of blue gel taped over the top two inches of the
    black
    and white TV screen.  I spotted a similar strip of green gel taped over the
    bottom two inches.  Uncle Lee smiled, exposing his rows of yellow teeth.
    'That's so I can have color TV!' he laughed.  'The blue is for the sky and the
    green is for the grass!'

    "I thought 'How can this guy stand to have blue and green gel on his black
    and white TV when he's watching the Jackie Gleason Show?'  Uncle Lee said it
    worked best when Bonanza was on.  Since Bonanza was his favorite program, who
    cared about the rest?"

    --Laura Leff
    President, IJBFC
    [removed]

      *** This message was altered by the server, and may not appear ***
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    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 23:41:33 -0400
    From: wa5pdk@[removed] ([removed] L.)
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Joe E. Brown

    Was Joe E. Brown ever on a radio production?  He was one of the funniest
    movie characters from my [removed]  back in the 1930's, however, I do
    not recall him being on a continuing radio production.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 23:41:50 -0400
    From: Jim Widner <jwidner@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Radio shows on TV

>        This got me [removed] it were done RIGHT, whatever the heck that
>     [removed] OTR show would you like to see re-made for today's television
>     audience? Which shows do you think would translate well to the small screen?
>     And which shows wouldn't work at all, no matter how faithful to the original
>     (or even _because_ they were faithful to the original)?

    Personally, I'm surprised Johnny Dollar never made it to at least fifties
    TV. Given the need for rights to go to the likes of Richard Diamond (David
    Janssen), and some of the others of that time, I would have thought JD
    would make a great small box-size TV series.

    Jim Widner
    jwidner@[removed]

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 23:42:18 -0400
    From: Dixonhayes@[removed]
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Re:OTR reworked for TV
    X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative
    X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain

>     Today, with cell phones being
>     pretty much ubiquitous, along with pagers, wireless PDA's, laptops, etc.,
>     YTJD would work [removed] plus it's just a cool show.

    I always thought YTJD would work beautifully as a modern-day TV show, with
    its attention to details, its potential for dry humor, etc.  And the phone
    opening would be perfect.  In fact, I always wondered if the answering
    machine at
    the beginning of "The Rockford Files" was supposed to be a wink at YTJD.

    Dixon

      *** This message was altered by the server, and may not appear ***
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    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 23:42:36 -0400
    From: "Alain Altounian" <[removed]@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  OTR to TV

    Even before getting to the suggestion of Pat Novak by a fellow contibuter,
    that was the first series i thought of upon reading this thread.

    I believe that "Novak" was ahead of its time in it's updating of the
    Chandleresque anti-hero.  It could be a combination of two elements that
     some ) current TV conveys quite well ; grit and wit.

    Alain.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 23:42:45 -0400
    From: "glen schroeder" <gschroeder10@[removed];
    To: "otr" <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  AM/FM Stereo

    Hi list.

    I grew up in Milwaukee WI and in the early sixties two stations-    WTMJ
    and WISN-had am and fm stereo.  They only did it on Sundays.  In the
    afternoon one had a classical show and at night the other had a jazz show.
    I wrote it that way, because I don't remember which station had which show.
    Maybe Ron or someone else from Milwaukee will remember better.  My older
    brother had a Fischer stereo and the tuner had seperate knobs for AM and FM.
    What I remember most about it is that sounded dumb.

    Love Dis List

    Glen Schroeder

    Madison  WI

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 23:43:54 -0400
    From: Kenneth Clarke <kclarke5@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  OTR revivals

              Charlie makes a good point here.  If it were done right,
    with the right casts, with story and dialogues which made it more
    modernized (yet stayed true to the original concept), I'd like to see
    "The Shadow", "Chandu, the Magician", "One Man's Family", and
    "I Love A Mystery" on television.   "The Shadow", "Chandu, the Magician",
    and "I Love A Mystery" could be updated by having the grand kids
    of the original characters pick up the gauntlet and follow in their
    grandparent's crime fighting shoes.  "Candy Matson" might make a good
    revival, if the right actress were cast in  the part.

              I wouldn't mind seeing some other shows on television such as
    "Information Please" (the possibilities for guest panelists is virtually
    endless), "Can You Top This?" (considering the comedians/comediennes
    today, it could be quite entertaining), and (I'm not sure whether it was
    OTR or not) "What's My Line?"

              What I don't think would be successful would be some of the
    married couple shows like "Burns and Allen", "Vic and Sade", "Easy Aces",
    and the like.  Depending on the audience demographic, the ratings for
    them would probably sink like a stone!  Westerns (no matter which ones)
    wouldn't make [removed] enough action.  Something like "Mercury Theatre
    of the Air", "Lux Radio Theatre" and the like wouldn't make it because
    theatre owners would probably think they'd cut into their profit margin.
    Something  like "Abbott and Costello" and "Martin and Lewis" wouldn't
    fly because they are too closely identified with one specific team.
    Anything
    similar would be constantly compared to the original.  "My Friend Irma"
    is iffy, because some people might indeed have a ditsy roommate, but
    others might think of it as offensive to women.

              I'd be interested in hearing from other people regarding their
    suggestions.

    Kenneth Clarke

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 23:44:19 -0400
    From: "Ed Ellers" <kd4awq@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  NBC predecessors

    Jim Cox (otrbuff@[removed]) wrote:

>     Could someone explain how the NETWORK preexisted this date in 1924?

    AT&T's network -- which was called the Broadcasting Company of America, and
    later became the Red Network of NBC -- started a regular schedule in fall
    1924, so they may have carried the convention as well.  RCA had a network of
    its own that predated NBC; it later became the Blue Network.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 01:06:28 -0400
    From: Dennis W Crow <DCrow3@[removed];
    To: OTR Digest <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  OTR That Would Make Bad TV

    My response to one aspect of Charlie's question --- what OTR would be
    unsuitable or impossible for TV---my first candidate is Breakfast with
    Dorothy and Dick.  The drama around their  sumptuous breakfast table would
    be lost on TV, and as I recall some of the programs I have heard, the
    principals actually eat the food before them.  That certainly wouldn't work
    for 45 minutes on TV.

    My second candidate is The Fat Man.  J. Scott Smart's character allegedly
    weight 230 pounds in some of the episodes, and he always stepped on the
    scales at the beginning of the program to prove it.  That wouldn't work on
    episodic television because 230 pounds is not necessarily a reflection of
    "fat,"  if it ever was,  and the opening radio  sound effects are spoiled
    by any visual image. We listen for the coin dropping in the register slot
    and the announcer's dramatic depiction of the moment.  We conjure an image
    of a very unique, "down to earth," intensely human detective.  It truly is
    inspired radio. Actually seeing Brad Runyon would ruin the metaphor we have
    for him.

    Dennis Crow

    ------------------------------

    Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 09:59:14 -0400
    From: Herb Harrison <herbop@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  OTR Television Revivals

    One show I *would* like to see, if done as well as the original, would be
    "Frontier Gentleman". As an "adult Western", it was free to tell stories
    outside the formulas of the "shoot 'em ups" of the time.

    Herb Harrison

    ------------------------------

    Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 09:59:26 -0400
    From: Joe Mackey <joemackey108@[removed];
    To: otr-net <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Today in radio history

       From Those Were The Days --

    1947 - Sergeant Preston of The Yukon went national for the first time.
    The show, with the Canadian Mountie and his trusty dog, King, continued
    on the radio until 1955, beginning on WXYZ Detroit in 1938. Sgt. Preston
    was created by George W. Trendle and Fran Striker, who also created The
    Lone Ranger and The Green Hornet.

    1955 - The first network radio show to be produced with no script, The
    University of Chicago Round Table, was heard for the final time on NBC.
    The program was the first network radio program to win the coveted
    George Foster Peabody Award.

    1956 - "This is Monitor, a weekend program service of NBC Radio," was
    heard for the first time. Notables such as Bill Cullen, Ed McMahon, Hugh
    Downs, and Dave Garroway recited this line. It was a network cue to NBC
    radio stations across the nation who carried the long form news,
    entertainment and variety broadcast from New York City. Stations and
    listeners who were "on the Monitor beacon" were entertained for six
    hours or more each Saturday and Sunday night for nearly two decades.
    NBC's Monitor was one of the last live network radio programs on the air.

       Joe

    --
    Visit my homepage: [removed]

    ------------------------------

    Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 09:59:59 -0400
    From: michael chatterton <chat51@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  otr television revivals

       with television i think it could be good if they were willing to
    spend money
    but they wouldnt !  look at the lone ranger ,tarzan and jane ,even the
    cartoon was off track even though great for kids and thats wonderfull
    but,what about makeing the story  as close as posible ?
      but it would never happen becuse tv is always low budget!
      now movies is a different story they could take the green hornet
    and make it a big movie success like spiderman, and the shadow could be
    as well if they get the right directors and right actors to play the
    part!
        oh well there is always hope!

    ------------------------------

    Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 10:00:15 -0400
    From: bruceglazer@[removed]
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Seeking Lone Ranger [removed]

    Recently I remember reading, here, that an album
    or cassette of "Music of the Lone Ranger" (or
    a similar title) had gone out-of-print.  If someone
    has a copy of it, I would be glad to pay (a reasonble
    price) for it.

    Please feel free to contact me at my email addres
    above.

    BRUCE

    --------------------------------
    End of [removed] Digest V2003 Issue #233
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