Subject: [removed] Digest V2002 #237
From: "OldRadio Mailing Lists" <[removed]@[removed];
Date: 6/25/2002 2:19 PM

To: <[removed]@[removed];

    ------------------------------

                                The Old-Time Radio Digest!
                                  Volume 2002 : Issue 237
                             A Part of the [removed]!
                                     ISSN: 1533-9289

                                     Today's Topics:

      Snoop and Peep?                       [ "Ken Lanza" <klanza1@[removed]; ]
      Who's on First?                       [ Birdwalk Farms <pheadoux@[removed]; ]
      Carl Amari                            [ "A. Joseph Ross" <lawyer@attorneyro ]
      Duke Ellington in Stereo              [ George Aust <austhaus1@[removed] ]
      WENDY WARREN/DOUGLAS EDWARDS          [ HERITAGE4@[removed] ]
      Today in radio history                [ Joe Mackey <joemackey108@[removed] ]
      Re: Long Playing                      [ Vntager8io@[removed] ]
      Amari and Radio Spirits               [ "Thomas Mason" <batz34@[removed] ]
      Long Play Records and how to make mo  [ leemunsick@[removed] ]
      The Aldrich Family                    [ Jerry Bechtel <[removed]@[removed] ]
      Thanks, and a new view of an "old" s  [ "Ron Vickery" <RVICKERY@anchorwall. ]
      Hoppy collectors                      [ "Garry D. Lewis" <glewis@[removed] ]
      Ensemble                              [ "Walden Hughes" <hughes1@[removed]; ]
      Harlan Stone                          [ Greg Przywara <gmprzywara@students. ]

    ------------------------------

    Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 21:33:41 -0400
    From: "Ken Lanza" <klanza1@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Snoop and Peep?
    X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative
    X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain

    OTR Fans:
    Anyone have info on "Snoop and Peep" an NBC
    show circa 1932? Any Sherlockian connection?
    regards,
    Ken Lanza

      *** This message was altered by the server, and may not appear ***
      ***                  as the sender intended.                   ***

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    Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 22:48:28 -0400
    From: Birdwalk Farms <pheadoux@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Who's on First?

    In the immortal routine, "Who's on First?,

    Have been told this was old routine on the borsht belt as a tailor shop.

    Who does the cuffs, what handles the seams ........

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 11:05:35 -0400
    From: "A. Joseph Ross" <lawyer@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Carl Amari

>     Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 11:51:48 -0400
>     From: "[removed] George" <yourstruly@[removed];

>     I understand that Carl Amari often reads these messages. Carl, if you are
>     reading this could you please let us know if you plan to get back into the
>     OTR business?

    Huh?  Is Carl Amari no longer in the OTR business?  What happened while I was
    looking the
    other way?

    --
    A. Joseph Ross, [removed]                           [removed]
     15 Court Square, Suite 210                 lawyer@[removed]
    Boston, MA 02108-2503           	         [removed]

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 11:05:44 -0400
    From: George Aust <austhaus1@[removed];
    To: OTR Digest <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Duke Ellington in Stereo

    Al Copeland asked for info on the Duke Ellington CD with stereo
    recordings from 1932.
    It was released on the "Natasha Imports Inc." label. [removed] Box 427
    Margaretville, [removed]
    It conststs of  two medleys about 7 1/2 mins each. The first is "Mood
    Indigo","Hot and Bothered",  and "Creole Love Call". The 2nd medley has
    "East St Louis Toodle-oo", Lots 'o Fingers", and the "Black and Tan
    Fantasy". The rest of the CD (total of 65:52 mins.) is not in stereo but
    is Duke Ellington and Ellington at his peak, so who cares. These are two
    previously unissued radio broadcasts from 1940 and 1942 (unfortunately
    no further date info is given)

    In my opinion this a definite must have for big band collectors.
    Incidentally there are also a couple of CD's out with the original Glenn
    Miller band in Stereo [removed] were from  Glenn's 20th Century Fox
    picture "Sun Valley Serenade" and the stereo is put together from
    recording's that were made for the purpose of balancing by the sound
    engineer on the picture. Again there is only a few minutes of stereo but
    there is an interesting promotional transcription for the movie made by
    the band for radio station play in 1941. Additionally there is some are
    a couple of unreleased tracks of songs from the same movie. This CD is
    Called "The Original Glenn Miller Orchestra In True Stereo". Released on
    Vipers Nest VN1-57. No address given. But these recordings were released
    on another CD label at the same time. I don't recall the label right
    now.

    George Aust

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 11:06:06 -0400
    From: HERITAGE4@[removed]
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  WENDY WARREN/DOUGLAS EDWARDS

    The order of items on WENDY WARREN &  THE NEWS was as follows:
    1. Headline News (top of the hour news from CBS)
    2. "News Reports from 'The Women's World' "
    3. New program ends - participants say goodbye - organ fills - Wendy'd daily
        drama begins.
    Tom Heathwood - Heritage Radio Theatre -  [removed]

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 11:06:14 -0400
    From: Joe Mackey <joemackey108@[removed];
    To: otr-net <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Today in radio history

      From Those Were The Days --

    1942 - The first broadcast of It Pays to Be Ignorant was aired on WOR
    Radio and the Mutual Broadcasting System.

      Joe

    --
    Visit my home page:
    [removed]~[removed]

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 11:06:38 -0400
    From: Vntager8io@[removed]
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Re: Long Playing

    Thanks very much to Prof. Biel for correcting me on the Edison Long-Playing
    discs. I had read or heard somewhere that they ran at 36 rpm, but apparently
    that isn't the case. I wonder if there ever was a 36-rpm disc released by
    someone, or if I got that number by misreading a sloppily handwritten "30." I
    suppose now I'm even more impressed by an 80-rpm 12" disc that will play 40
    minutes! In any case, I apologize for my mistake and thanks to Prof. Biel for
    correcting it.

    Bryan Wright

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 11:06:44 -0400
    From: "Thomas Mason" <batz34@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Amari and Radio Spirits

    I am a bit confused on time lines.  When did Media Bay take over Radio
    Spirits?  I being a serial and comics fan, bought all the Superman/Batman,
    Lone Ranger and Shadow radio shows I could through Radio Spirits.  I liked
    the fact that they were restored and attractively packaged although I felt
    that they were overpriced.   When I would tell many of my OTR friends what I
    had purchased, they would fume at me and go into tirades against Mr. Amari
    and Radio Spirits. They would tell me that he was ruining the hobby for fans
    of the genre with his "buying out the rights" to many old radio series and
    claiming exclusivity to them.  I did not know of the animosity that was
    building up in many of the OTR fans.   When did Mr. Amari become unpopular
    in the eyes of many OTR fans?  I got a sense that this was even before Media
    Bay took over.
    I credit Mr. Amari for his upgrading of a lot of material that was almost
    lost.  He had a superior product, but then there were rumors of smaller OTR
    dealers who were selling their wares getting warning  letters from him,
    advising them of possible lawsuits if they continued to sell their MP3 discs
    and tapes containing material that was "his alone," even though the quality
    of their product did not match his.  I visited one site that was crusading
    against him vehemently and soon found more.  After awhile, you begin to
    wonder what the real story was.  Does anybody out there have the real story?
    Tom Mason

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 11:25:21 -0400
    From: leemunsick@[removed]
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Long Play Records and how to make money

    Thanks to our experts for the thread on Long Play records.

    It is true that Mr. Edison's company came out with the first "LP" records
    although, as has been mentioned, that symbol was a trademark of CRI now
    Sony (sigh).

    Actually, the first long Play record was a cylinder, when Edison moved from
    his 2-minute cylinders to a 4-minute version, which also had the advantage
    of being plastic, much tougher than the original, fragile "industrial soap"
    cylinders.

    On to the first DISC long play version, which as Mike Biel points out,
    utilized the 80 RPM "Diamond Disc" format.  These were actually called
    "Edison Re-Creations" as well as "Long Playing Records", by the gang in
    West Orange.  Those bulky 1/4-inch records, many of which abruptly ended
    their days as "skeetshoot" targets.  They were very nearly unbreakable in
    normal use, but not as target drones.

    To gain public transition to their long play records, Edison introduced an
    adaptor kit for the popular Edison "Laboratory Model" upright machines made
    for the thick "Re-Creations".  This included a special plug-in pickup head,
    and an ingenious small gear-train and clutch to switch to and from
    long-play, to be installed beneath the turntable.

    There was a third item which may or may not have been part of the "LP"
    system.  I assume it was, since I have not seen 12" "Diamond Disc" records,
    just 12" long-plays.  This was a device used to position the tone-arm to
    drop the stylus correctly at the start of the 10" and 12" records.  Two
    little buttons would be seen along the left edge of the mechanism chassis,
    one  marked 10 and the other 12.  By pushing either one, an arm extended to
    stop the swing of the tone-arm and horn assembly (all one device) at either
    of the appropriate positions.   While I imagine most Edison customers chose
    to have these all devices professionally installed, anyone with mechanical
    ability could do it.  Even I have managed with no great difficulty!

    Because of the extreme fine grove on the longer recordings, the stylus was
    shaped like a football, to compensate for the change in tracking angle as
    the tone arm was turned across the record by the worm gear below (unlike
    "modern" recordings where the stylus is dragged across by the record groove
    itself.

    Theodore Edison was the man in charge of the development of all this, as he
    was with the later, even shorter-lived electrical recordings.  He told me
    that each stylus had to be installed in the respective plug-in LP pickup
    heads at just the correct angle.  This was after an intensive manufacturing
    process in which each stylus was "played" over and over on a special
    turntable device with an abrasive groove which would form the stylus into
    the football shape.

    One could assume that this would limit the production of these styli,
    curtailing the possibility of huge, rapid sales of the machines, and
    therefore the recordings.

    Ted Edison was faced with an even bigger problem, which turned out to be
    insurmountable.  These were spring-driven phonographs.  All spring motors
    have the phenomenon of "chugging".  Springs wind up and unwind
    unevenly.  Edison developed and sold a special gear lubricant, a jelly-like
    grease blended with graphite, to allow the layers of steel spring to slide
    against each other as uniformly as possible.  Nevertheless, as the spring
    unwound, the layers would stick and then suddenly release, to slide further
    along as the spring expanded its over-all dimension within its housing.

    Does this sound like the classic explanation of tectonics?  The sides of a
    geological fault-line would build up pressure and then suddenly shift in a
    rapid spurt,so one side could slide against the other?   That movement is
    described in layman's terms as "an earthquake"; the result can be rather
    shocking.  Even after-shocking.

    The exact same thing happens within a spring motor.  No matter how much
    this shock is dampered, it is still present.  It drove Ted Edison nuts,
    because it would jump the stylus across those extremely fine
    grooves.  Young Edison simply could not find a practical way to isolate the
    drive mounting from the turntable and tone-arm assembly.  These two
    problems defied mass production, the technical reason why the program was
    abandoned.

    There was an artistic reason as well.  The vast majority of the long play
    recordings issued were "transcriptions". As in other businesses, it was
    easy to just use up existing stock!  In other words, they were anthologies,
    if you will, of a group of standard recordings already on hand, dubbed over
    to the new format.  As with any other medium, some quality was lost from
    one generation to the next.  If one listens carefully, one first hears the
    soft surface noise of the "new" recording, and then the start of the old
    one.  Record collectors who are also heart surgeons will call this "dub-dub".

    There was another problem with Edison recordings.  With the advent of
    strong competition from Victor and Columbia, record buyers found that most
    of the artists and performances they wanted to hear were not on Edison
    records.  This was true in part to Mr. Edison's strange musical tastes, and
    his parsimony in paying fees to artists, who deserted him heartily.  He had
    lost the market to the more aggressive record marketers.

    Transcribing old material for their new media held true not only for
    Edison, or today's non-digital video tapes, for instance.  It was true with
    the RCA "Program Transcriptions".  That was the name given to their 33-1/3
    RPM recordings, in the format which became successful only as the familiar
    (to us at least) as "transcriptions" of radio programs.  Generally, both
    Edison and Victor planned quickly to move on to original recordings for
    their long-play processes, but basically never got that far.  They suffered
    the same problem as the Edsel in the 1950s; people weren't willing to wait,
    preferring to switch rather than to fight.

    Record collectors from around 1950 will tell you that the same thing
    happened with the "new" long play system:  the first LP "albums" were
    transcriptions of existing 78 RPM albums.  Sound familiar?  Pun
    intended.  Need we mention 8-track and CDs?   All those "tombstone sleeve"
    Columbia LPs!

    What the Peter Goldmark crew at Columbia did do, was to
    1) take the RCA speed,
    2) merge it with a new, not-so-delicate "micro-groove" suggested by the
    Edison experiment, and
    3) plop the resulting record down on an electrically-driven turntable which
    eliminated spring problems.

    Actually, I think the RCA Victor innovation far more interesting, combining
    the handy size and shape of their 45 rpm disc with an incredible
    improvement in the record-changer.  A long way from those early
    monstrosities which wore out records, sliding them across chutes, flipping
    them over, and banging them back down on the turntable.  Alphabet slop: A,
    MM, AM, et al.

    Who would ever have thought in the "battle of the speeds" that the outcome
    would be long works on 12" discs played at 33-1/3 RPM, and popular, shorter
    works on not-quite 7" records running at 45 RPM?

    Historically, this produces interesting incongruities.  A young friend told
    me some years ago that he was excited to have discovered a rare "miniature
    LP" record!  I regaled him with the brief attempt by Columbia to match the
    Victor 45s with their own 7" LPs, complete with an analysis of the raised
    radii molded into these light records, so they would not slip on the
    turntable.  He was totally puzzled.  Turned out the rarity he had found was
    a 10" LP!  Then there are today's record sellers who insist on calling 78's
    "vinyl", or all disc records "albums".  Double sigh.

    So Peter Goldmark had his day.  Voila!  The "modern long-playing
    recording".  Which would not play nearly as long at the earlier Edison
    products, although a bit longer than the Victor entries.

    Theodore Edison was on the right track.  He had two problems.  First, he
    was a bit early for existing technology.  Sort of like those pioneering
    Cook Records, which produced Stereo LPs by having two tracks and a double
    tone-arm, when all they had to do was combine the vertical and lateral cuts
    of Edison and Berliner.

    Second, the younger Edison had his father's prejudices blocking him.  TAE
    never did like the idea of disc recordings.  And his early experiment with
    electric phonograph motors convinced him that while they eliminated
    winding, they would not produce a consistent speed, essential for sound
    recording and playback.

    When his "Balmoral" type electric cylinder phonograph proved impractical,
    Edison re-introduced the more reliable spring motor, with great
    fanfare!  Ironic: the great electrician admitting the shortcomings of an
    electrical device!

    Those new spring operated phonographs have serial numbers which start with
    the letters 'SM' .  In his later experiments with spring-driven long-play
    turntables, young Ted Edison perhaps pondered on other meanings for those
    letters.

    He wanted to move into electronics.  He did a lot of work in secret, and
    had to fight with his father, who reluctantly agreed to go into the radio
    business.  Again, by the time they started so to do, the market had already
    been taken away from them by Victor in its new guise as RCA.

    The senior Edison wasn't especially fond of producing "entertainment"
    recordings from the start, seeing the phonograph essentially as a business
    machine.  In 1929 the firm went out of the record business except for
    dictating equipment, although continuing to service its customers in that
    business into the mid 1950s!

    We have photographs of railroad gondola cars lined up on the siding next to
    the loading docks at the Edison phonograph works.  At first sight they look
    like incoming coal cars.  Actually, they are piled high with the "diamond
    disc" records, probably to be taken to some northern New Jersey land
    fill.  Now THERE'S a business where Edison could have made money!

    Long-time recipe for financial success:  Buy a big hole and a hill.  Fill
    up the hole and sell off the hill.  Top off the hole with the last remnant
    of your hill, and you have nice even land for future development.  I pass
    that one with no charge to our younger readers.  Live long and prosper!

    Lee Munsick

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 11:31:59 -0400
    From: Jerry Bechtel <[removed]@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  The Aldrich Family

    I'm sure different people listen to their "favorite" shows for various
    reasons. My reasons are not for art sake, not because the shows are well
    produced, not because of an exquisite plot, not for some social
    redeeming quality but purely because as a youngster, prior to tv I
    remember sitting in front of the old radio with my family and listening
    to THAT show. It brings back memories of times past.  The Aldrich
    Family, as did many others, contained no violence, no foul language, no
    subversive plots but just situations that I found myself and my friends
    in much of the time. The way the kids talked to and treated their
    parents is still, to this day, not corny but refreshing. After listening
    to the show several years ago with my children, they actually began to
    say "yes sir" when they talked to me. "Shucks", "oh boy" and "golly"
    where a big part of the vocabulary back then and that was well reflected
    on the show. Family values were important. Yes, when you listen now,
    especially if it's the first time you have ever heard The Aldrich
    Family, you will probably think the show has no great story line and
    serves no useful purpose. But it entertained us in the '40's and that
    was pretty  much the way life was then. Not bad! It's a shame there
    aren't more of The Aldrich Family shows available to the public.
    Thanks for [removed]

    Jerry

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 11:44:55 -0400
    From: "Ron Vickery" <RVICKERY@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Thanks, and a new view of an "old" show

    First, I would like to publicly thank Richard Carpenter for the Suspense
    CD I won in his MP3 Giveaway.  I greatly appreciate it, and look forward
    to hearing the shows.  Thank you, Richard!!

    Secondly, I had an interesting, only slightly off-topic experience this
    last weekend.  I was cleaning in my garage, and came across a bag of
    toys my wife had bought at a garage sale.  The item on top was a Sesame
    Street videotape of Songs and Games, which my 4-year old son Benjamin
    immediately went inside to watch (so much for helping).

    Ironically, the clips on the tape were from shows I remembered seeing
    when I was little.  There was one part where Cookie Monster was on a
    game show with Guy Smiley.  He had to get three items that rhymed with
    rain, as part of a game show (cane, and chain, attached to a monster).
    The third item he brought was a train, right through the studio wall.
    As all hell broke loose, the engineer came in and announced he was
    "leaving on track 3 for Anaheim, <big monster growl>, and Cucamonga."  I
    immediately thought of Jack Benny.  My question is this:  Did Sesame
    Street frequently use OTR references such as this on their earlier
    shows?

    Ron

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 11:46:27 -0400
    From: "Garry D. Lewis" <glewis@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Hoppy collectors

    as a follow-up to my post to OTV, I found this site as all things
    Hop-a-long Cassidy- videos, radio programs, t-shirts, ect.

    [removed]
    --
    Remember: for every silver lining, there is a cloud!

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 14:49:22 -0400
    From: "Walden Hughes" <hughes1@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Ensemble

    I would like to nominate two more show to the grate ensemble cast radio
    shows.  First I Love A Mystery.  I believe the New York cast was out
    standing, and Carlton E. Morse writing is hard to beat.  I also believe that
    the Great Gildersleives show is a wonder ensemble cast and has wonderful
    personalities.  I am planning to have Shirley Mitchell soon as a guest on
    Yesterday USA to talk about that show and other when her schedule is free.
    Take care,

    Walden

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 15:51:15 -0400
    From: Greg Przywara <gmprzywara@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Harlan Stone

    If Harlan Stone, the voice of Jughead on Archie Andrews is still in contact
    with some of the members of this newsgroup would you please see that he
    gets this message from my 10-year-old sister. Thanks.
    Dear [removed],
    I think that when you played Jughead it was hilarious! Do you know if the
    actor who played Archie Andrews is still alive? Did you ever see Bergen and
    McCarthy in person? Did you like the actress who played Veronica?
    Sincerely,
    Charlotte

    [ADMINISTRIVIA: He's around, but he's getting ready for the REPS con, so he
    may not answer until he gets back.  --cfs3]

    --------------------------------
    End of [removed] Digest V2002 Issue #237
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