Subject: [removed] Digest V01 #61
From: <[removed]@[removed]>
Date: 2/23/2001 7:52 AM

To: <[removed]@[removed];

    ------------------------------

                          The Old-Time Radio Digest!
                             Volume 01 : Issue 61
                       A Part of the [removed]!
                               ISSN: 1533-9289

                               Today's Topics:

     ADMINISTRIVIA: [removed]              [Charlie Summers <charlie@[removed]]
     Bob & Ray                            [Sheryl Smith <sheryllsmith@earthlin]
     Re: [removed] tube site        [LDunham509@[removed]                 ]
     Old Radio Records                    [Arthur Smith <agsmith_stl@[removed]]
     Remember Wenn                        ["Art Shifrin" <goldens2@[removed]]
     Re: interview records                ["Jerry Salley" <jlsalley@[removed];  ]
     Radio Restoration -- a Wrinkle or Tw ["Stephen A Kallis, Jr." <skallisjr@]
     Calling all Cars                     ["Ryan Hall" <thepezman@[removed];]
     Tubes                                [Bill Harris <billhar@[removed];    ]
     Radio Spirits                        [StevenL751@[removed]                 ]
     DANGEROUS RADIOS!                    ["Owens Pomeroy" <opomeroy@[removed]; ]
     Cincinnati Convention                [Lennell Herbert-Marshall <HerMars@e]
     Re: Remember WENN                    [LDunham509@[removed]                 ]

    ------------------------------

    Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 22:28:44 -0500
    From: Charlie Summers <charlie@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  ADMINISTRIVIA: [removed]

    Folks;

       Yes, I know, I am _really_ [removed]'ve been promising a note here for a
    while, and a message on the OldRadio Mailing List (our sister list) with
    results of the survey taken there, but there never seem to be enough hours in
    a day. So here are a few short [removed]

       First off, the OTR Digest has been granted an ISSN (International Standard
    Serial Number; like an ISBN only for serialized publications), proudly listed
    at the top of the page. I have it on pretty good authority that we are one of
    the longest-running email publications to receive [removed], the first
    issue of the OTR Digest was released in September, 1994. Gad, my hair was
    mostly black way back [removed]  ;)

       Next, for those of you who have been gently reminding me that I need to
    get off my patoots and get The Kinescope [removed] news, no more
    excuses! Although the list "formally" opens on Monday, and postings to the
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    onslaught.  ;)

       To subscribe to the intercative list, send the word SUBSCRIBE in the
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       Either way, you should receive your confirmation message from the server
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    answer you as quickly as possible.

       I'd also like to take a moment to thank those folks who have contributed
    to the server lease and bandwidth fees - it is greatly appreciated! We gladly
    accept checks and we also have a PayPal account (see
    [removed] for information), but we do _not_
    have a Yahoo!PayDirect account, and won't be getting one. Let me briefly
    explain why.

       Signing up for _anything_ at Yahoo! requires giving their computers an
    incredible amount of personal information. Recently, eGroups (used to be
    OneList) was taken over by Yahoo!, and I was offered the opportunity to
    "convert" my accounts. When I tried, though, I had to create a Yahoo! ID,
    which required my browser to accept cookies from Yahoo! (allowing them to
    track _everything_ I do on the _entire_ family of Yahoo! websites and tie it
    _directly_ to me!), and fill in a demographic form asking me for _way_ too
    much personal information (whether I'm male or female is bad enought; what I
    do for a living is none of their darned business) so the cookie could attach
    the invasive information they collect to a [removed] at least a marketing
    target. Since I completely _refuse_ to supply such personal information, and
    _refuse_ to allow my browser to accept persistant cookies, and there was no
    option _not_ to supply it or accept it, I couldn't even convert my
    [removed] so haven't.

       To allow them to tie that invasive information they require directly to my
    credit cards and bank accounts is absolutely [removed] will NOT supply
    one company with all that information about me, without having some federal
    privacy protection ion place (remember, the companies now say, "Trust us,"
    but there are NO laws in place to protect you from them using this
    information in any way they choose!).

       So let's talk a minute about the personal information _we_ collect and how
    we use it. We maintain your email address, since it's impossible to send the
    OTR Digest to you without it. Sometimes, I will use that email address to
    send you personal email, usually on the rare occasions when I actually know
    the answer to a question. And we're pretty confident you love Old-Time Radio,
    since you're subscribed to this list.

       Yep, that's it. That's all the personal information about you we collect
    on our servers. We don't ask if your male or female, how much money you make,
    or whether you're a butcher, baker, or candlestick maker. We need an email
    address, and you need a love for OTR - that is the sum total of the
    requirements. And I promise you that will _continue_ to be all we ask.

       Could we make money by asking for your life history? You bet we could;
    there are companies who would pay big for that information. But then, I don't
    think I could look at myself in the mirror in the morning, either. So not
    only will I not be generating a Yahoo!PayDirect account, but I certainly
    wouldn't ask YOU to give them all that information just to contribute to the
    operation of the mailing list. I hope those of you who asked about
    Yahoo!PayDirect will understand.

       More in a couple of [removed] don't forget to join The Kinescope!

             Charlie

    ------------------------------

    Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 09:41:51 -0500
    From: Sheryl Smith <sheryllsmith@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Bob & Ray

    I've started a database project to try to catalogue all the complete
    shows of
    Bob & Ray that I can find.  I've spoken to Larry Josephson, their NPR
    producer and the owner of their official site, and he's mostly
    interested in skits for his (wonderful!) collections--he has a database
    of the skits he's used, but nobody seems to have found out how many
    complete shows are left.  I'd like to do that, if only because I'd like
    to be sure that everything that's still around, stays around.  To judge
    from my conversation with Larry J. (and with a few other OTR people),
    there may be a conservancy problem with this material.  Larry J. said he
    has things that he hasn't had time or $ to catalogue, and this may be
    true of others as well.  And I'm also getting the idea that not all OTR
    collectors are safeguarding what may be unique materials with off-site
    digital backups.

    So, as I said, I've started a database project to try to catalogue what
    I can
    locate:  I've gotten tapes from several sources, and CD-ROMs as well
    (more
    coming), and am also recording the contents of the shows and am trying
    to
    resolve issues where the dates attached to the shows are inconsistent or
    obviously wrong.  I'm particularly enamored of the WHDH shows, and have
    listened to enough of them already so that I'm beginning to get a sense
    of what was going on there, so may even be able to help place
    uncatalogued stuff from there at some point.  I am at least beginning to
    find some that are circulating with duplicate or bogus dates, and in
    some cases can

    Eventually I'd like to make what I find out available to the OTR
    community--and the database I designed for it has also grown into
    something that could help OTR dealers and archivists track their
    material, so that will be around as well.  OTR is clearly a cultural
    heritage, so would like to contribute a little bit to the efforts of you
    hobbyists and dealers to preserve and distribute it.

    I also am having so much fun listening to Bob & Ray! and would like to
    make sure this pleasure remains open to others.  I heard them first in
    the 80s when they were on NPR, and was taken with them then.  But I
    never heard any of their earlier work till recently, and never realized
    there was *so much* original material!--in the 80s they were focusing
    more on a core repertoire of favorites, but the quality of what got left
    behind is staggering--and the dazzling improv from WHDH was a
    revelation. These guys are still in present time if anyone is--and
    though many people of my (baby-boomer) generation and have heard them,
    few seem to have heard them lately. And there's a younger generation out
    there who haven't heard them at all--and need to.  The media voices they
    mocked are still the same, only they're taking themselves more seriously
    than ever.  It's weird, but no one recently seems to have seen through
    them as well as Bob & Ray did forty-odd years ago.

    Sorry for droodling on like this, but despite my inexperience, I'm doing
    my best to look for complete shows by date.  At present I'm not even
    completely sure of what there is to be found, and am certainly not far
    enough along to be really clear about what I'm missing. Some people on
    this list already know about this project, because I've talked to them
    by email, and most have been extremely nice to me--particularly those
    who are fans of Bob & Ray, and there are thankfully many.  Whether you
    are or you aren't, if there's anything you can do for me, or any
    suggestions you have about others I might talk to, I'd appreciate it
    greatly.

    Thanks for listening anyway.

    Sheryl Smith

    ------------------------------

    Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 09:41:54 -0500
    From: LDunham509@[removed]
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Re: [removed] tube site

>     A neighbor of mine has an extensive supply of OEM, NOS, etc. tubes. His
>      website address is [removed]

    You might wish to contact your neighbor to get the rest of the web address.
    [removed] is an Internet provider here in Central Illinois, and hosts
    web sites, but to reach a particular web site hosted there requires a more
    specific address.

    Larry Dunham

    ------------------------------

    Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 10:41:25 -0500
    From: Arthur Smith <agsmith_stl@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Old Radio Records

    Concerning "Interview Records", I believe it was
    Johnny Carson who told the story that when he was on
    radio in Nebraska, they were often sent these bogus
    interview records to localize the celebrity. He said
    in at least one instance, he made up questions that
    would have litle to do with the "real" questions.
    Humor resulted, the rest is history.
    Actually they still do that today with video. I
    watched an interview done by a local St. Louis
    entertainment reviewer one night and saw the same
    interview done by a Florida entertainment reviewer the
    next night (in Florida of course) They must send the
    tape and backdrop (to match the celebrity) from place
    to place or it is probably a part of a media kit.

    Just my 2 cents.

    Art

    Oh, by the way, I am 52 yrs old and am not a tv snob,
    in fact I have a passion for many forms of
    entertainment mainly older stuff. Does anyone know of
    any groups similar to this (I know that there is no
    way any could be as educational as this one) that
    discuss old tv, movies (mainly serials and lower
    budget films) etc. I would appreciate any help, even
    though I am asking for info of "the other medium"

    ------------------------------

    Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 11:00:49 -0500
    From: "Art Shifrin" <goldens2@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Remember Wenn

    Hi Gang,

    It didn't purport to be a documentary.  I suspect that any realistic
    portrayal of a typical brodcast day of US pre-TV radio broadcasting would be
    quite boring.  It was an entertaining diversion for the most part.
    What's more entertaining: a typical high quality PBS nature special on
    animal life in equatorial islands, or King Kong?

    Best,
    Shiffy
    check out my website: [removed]

    ------------------------------

    Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 11:00:46 -0500
    From: "Jerry Salley" <jlsalley@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Re: interview records

     RE:

>     I got one extremely interesting 45 RPM disk (and why 45? beats me).
>     It was apparently some sort of interview for local music stations.  It
>     started with a Hawaiian personality saying "Hello," followed by a
>     significant length of silence.

    <SNIP>

>     The only thing I can think of was that a local disk jockey had a
>     script, so that it would seem to the listeners that the person on the record
>     was being interviewed in the DJ's studio.  Never ran into the like again.
>     Stephen A. Kallis, Jr.

    -----------------------------
    I've still got a 45 of Lorne Green doing a one-sided interview complete with
    the script we were sent so we could "interview" him.  It's in a picture
    sleeve even!  The time frame dictated that it would be a 45, as is probably
    the case in your record.  Radio stations could play other formats (we had
    reel-to-reel and turntables that played 33-45-78 along with tape carts
    similar to what became 8 track) but almost all music was on a 45.  This
    wasn't OTR related - maybe sort of borderline - because we got it in the
    early 60's when it was a double-promotion for his tv series "Bonanza" and
    his hit record "Ringo."  This sort of thing wasn't really rare, but it
    wasn't common either.  The station I was at was the no-longer existing WKDL
    "Sweet 16" (1600am) in Clarksdale, Mississippi.  We were a daytime station
    (dawn to dusk) and block programing at the time:  3 hours of rock followed
    by 3 hours of middle of the road followed by news (national, local, farm)
    and the closest we came to what would today be OTR [removed] (pause for
    effect)  Paul [removed]
    Good [removed]
    Jerry Salley
    And, oh, by the way, we never played the interview.  After all, in my
    misspent youth I was much more interested in Elvis and Little Richard.  Oh,
    the shame of it.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 11:22:00 -0500
    From: "Stephen A Kallis, Jr." <skallisjr@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Radio Restoration -- a Wrinkle or Two ...

    Mark Kinsler, speaking of old radios and their restoration,

>     The restoration of an old radio is a rather tricky business and always
>     expensive.  That's because most of the insides must be replaced because
>     of age: every capacitor, every high-value resistor, and as many of the
>     coils as can be managed must be removed and replaced by new components
>     which look
>     reasonably authentic.

    Ah ... this brings up a problem I hadn't thought of: what's the level of
    authenticity on a "restoration"?  For instance, in almost any old
    tube-style radio I've seen the insides of, there's a sheet-metal chassis
    with sockets for tubes, tuning capacitor assembly, and sometimes some
    electrolytic capacitors visible.  Now of this chassis is removed from the
    cabinet or case, on the other side are resistors, capacitors, and any
    other components needed to make the radio function (transformers,
    rectifiers, etc.).  So suppose I find such an old radio, and decide to
    replace the resistors, capacitors, and other nontube components.  If I
    use modern components that are easier to come by and possibly have a
    longer lifespan, when the chassis is reinstalled, the radio will work as
    well as with older components, and the more modern stuff is not visible.
    Is this not sufficient to count?

>     I could get an old radio working again, but I just repaired--I didn't
>     restore, and something else was likely to fail again fairly soon.  When I
>     realized this, I stopped repairing tube equipment of any type.

    Okay, now I'm a nostalgist, but try to be realistic.  If I have an old
    tube radio and get it operational with current, reliable, components, I
    could again regain the cheery glow of the radios of yesteryear -- but is
    it "restored"?  If I could take it back in time and show it to an average
    consumer of the time, he or she wouldn't be able to detect the difference
    in terms of appearance (after all, the new components are out of sight)
    or performance.  (Note: "average consumer" clearly eliminates electronic
    engineers, technicians, repairmen, or radio amateurs.)

    Is the radio "restored" sufficiently for an average OTR enthusiast?  Or
    does "restore" go all the way to nothing but stuff from the era?

    An allied question concerns "fixing" old radios.  Suppose someone finds
    the remnants of an old radio, and fills it with modern stuff, so that
    although he or she receives radio, nothing back of the front of the case
    or cabinet has a bit of glass in it.  Possibly, the "fixer" adds a
    cassette and/or CD drive that can't be seen from the front.  The front
    looks like the old radio, and basically operates like the old radio
    functionally (not counting the hidden drive[s].)  What would you call the
    resulting thing?  A replica, even though some of it's original parts?  A
    simulacrum?  Any ideas?

    Stephen A. Kallis, Jr.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 17:23:21 -0500
    From: "Ryan Hall" <thepezman@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Calling all Cars

    I just listened to an episode of Calling all Cars for the first time, and
    was impressed. I would love to acquire some more of these. If anyone has
    some of these episodes in MP3 and interested in trading, please let me know.
    [removed]

    ------------------------------

    Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 17:47:52 -0500
    From: Bill Harris <billhar@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Tubes

    Mark Kinsler commented:

>     Those of us who actually had to work with them don't miss tubes one

    bit.

    Well, not all of us. I still enjoy bringing an old vintage tube set back
    to life and had much rather work with tube equipment
    than modern solid state stuff. I had enough of that when I used to
    service large mainframe computer systems. I continue
    to be amazed by modern technology and what it can do and enjoy using it,
    such as the computer I am typing this on, but
    as far as working on modern technology, I prefer to leave that up to
    others, I'll take the tube stuff any [removed]

>     they required a minimum of a 200 watt power supply,

    Not hardly, the average tube type table set will draw less that 100
    watts, more like 50-75 watts. A large console set
    might draw a 100+ watts.

>     The restoration of an old radio is a rather tricky business and always

    expensive.  That's because most of the insides

>     must be replaced because of age: every capacitor, every high-value

    resistor, and as many of the coils as can be

>     managed must be removed and replaced by new components which look

    reasonably authentic

    All capacitors should be replaced and as you say any resistors that are
    out of specs (I find I have to replace very few resistors)
    As far as coils there is no need to replace any coils unless they have
    opened up or been damaged. You will be hard pressed to
    find new replacement coils for vintage radios except those you can
    scavenge from another set. I could count on one hand and
    have fingers left over the times I had to find a replacement coil in the
    many sets I have restored.

>     and something else was likely to fail again fairly soon.  When I

    realized this, I stopped repairing tube equipment of

>     any type.

    Many of these old sets played for years without any trouble, and once
    repaired will do the same again. I have sets that
    I have been playing on a daily basis for years without any failures.
    Just a note about tubes and their reliability. Most
    assume that if an old radio isn't playing it probably 'needs a tube'. I
    seldom find that  a bad tube the reason a vintage
    set does not play. I have sets with tubes manufactured over 60 years ago
    and still work fine.
    Tubes are very reliable, but I will admit, solid state technology is
    even more reliable.

>     I mention this because there is a certain amount of hobby activity in

    the old radio business, and there are some shady

>     operators engaged in it.  The appropriate newsgroup is

    [removed]+phono. Some good and some

>     not-so-good people have participated therein

    I participate in this group on a regular basis and in defense of the
    members the group, as as a whole the active posters to that group are
    good bunch of vintage
    radio collectors and nothing shady about them. They are just interested
    in pursuing their hobby and sharing information of restoring these
    vintage
    pieces of radio history. You may find some shady operators who are
    dealers, and not collectors, there are always exceptions in every case.

    Bill Harris

    ------------------------------

    Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 18:17:07 -0500
    From: StevenL751@[removed]
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Radio Spirits

    For those of you interested in the latest news of Radio Spirits and their
    rights battles, take a look at this recent article from the [removed] Times:

    [removed]

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 00:12:46 -0500
    From: "Owens Pomeroy" <opomeroy@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  DANGEROUS RADIOS!

            I wonder how many of us have a memory long enough to recall that in
    the very early years of radio, those house without electricity had battery
    operated ones.  I remember my Granddad lived on a farm in Virginia and had
    "outdoor pluming" hence, no electricity.

            He purchased a breadboard 3-dial radio that was powered by - are you
    ready for this? WET BATTERIES! As far as I can remember the batteries were
    three vats with, I believe sulfuric  acid in them, in which copper plates
    were placed to conduct the electricity. He had to build a "box" over the
    vats to keep us kids from knocking against them and seriously burning us. I
    can remember the "white stuff" (corrosion) on the copper plates that had to
    be replaced about once a month.

           He had this set for about 5 years until the dry battery sets came out
    with the hugh dry cells, that powered the radio. He bought a much smaller
    set that was powered by these dry cells, with an option that could be
    converted to electricity, which was finally installed in Granddad's home.
    Thinking back on these really vintage radios that were powered by these wet
    batteries, it is a wonder that we grandkids did not suffer a severe accident
    with the acid in those vats!  I am sure, still that a lot of wet battery
    owners did suffer acid burns when the copper plates had to be changed and
    the sulfuric acid replaced.

                                    -  30  -

    Owens Pomeroy

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 00:12:44 -0500
    From: Lennell Herbert-Marshall <HerMars@[removed];
    To: Old Time Radio Digest <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Cincinnati Convention

    For those of you who are going to the Cincinnati Convention, the $75 per
    room rate is for Thursday through Saturday nights only.  However, if you
    are one of those like myself who come in on Wednesday, they have another
    special rate of $79 that can be combined with the $75 convention rate.

    I'm looking forward to another great convention and to seeing those of
    you that I only see once a year.

    Lennell H-M

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 09:26:52 -0500
    From: LDunham509@[removed]
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Re: Remember WENN

>     Michael Biel had this to say about "Remember WENN"
>      As the series wore on it became evident that the writers had little
>      knowledge of what really went on in radio

>      Bill Harris wrote--
>      Agree completely, I only watched a few episodes and this show was
>      probably the farthest thing from an accurate portrayal of a radio
>      station of that era. I found the plots to be over acted and silly at
>      best.

    I'm not certain ''Remember WENN'' -was- intended to convey an accurate
    impression of a radio station, any more than TV's ''WKRP In Cincinnati'' was,
    in its era.  The station merely provided a backdrop for the Rupert ''Piņa
    Colada'' Holmes scripts.  Personally, I think the quirky characters were
    delightful; the overacting was intentional, to create caricatures of the
    characters; and the period setting merely gave the show a more offbeat look.
    Yes, it was campy at times--I liked it that way--but it could also be very
    tender.  I've seen the Christmas episode with Betty Buckley several times,
    and have never failed to be touched.

    Larry Dunham

    --------------------------------
    End of [removed] Digest V01 Issue #61
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