Subject: [removed] Digest V2002 #385
From: "OldRadio Mailing Lists" <[removed]@[removed];
Date: 10/2/2002 2:15 PM

To: <[removed]@[removed];

    ------------------------------

                                The Old-Time Radio Digest!
                                  Volume 2002 : Issue 385
                             A Part of the [removed]!
                                     ISSN: 1533-9289

                                     Today's Topics:

      War of the Worlds                     [ JJLjackson@[removed] ]
      Last Radio Drama                      [ Bhob <bhob2@[removed]; ]
      Players Aren't Everything             [ "Stephen A Kallis, Jr." <skallisjr@ ]
      Using a VCR as an audio recorder      [ catfish <glasspar@[removed]; ]
      WORD WITHOUT A VOWEL                  [ Sandy Singer <sinatradj@[removed]; ]
      Karl Swenson, Herb Butterfield, Ever  [ "alanladdsr" <alanladdsr@[removed] ]
      William Conrad GUNSMOKE Alert!        [ SanctumOTR@[removed] ]
      Re: Cantril and Bergen                [ Elizabeth McLeod <lizmcl@[removed] ]
      Word without a vowel                  [ "David Kindred" <david@[removed] ]
      Re: MP3, VCR and other storage media  [ Lou Genco <webmaster@[removed]; ]
      Soap Operas, Radio Spirits            [ dantrigg422@[removed] ]
      Another DVD/MP3 player                [ "Irene Heinstein" <IreneTH@[removed] ]
      Re: MP3 again                         [ Fred Berney <berney@[removed]; ]
      Re: VHS Tape and OTR                  [ Fred Berney <berney@[removed]; ]
      Re: VCR control track                 [ Fred Berney <berney@[removed]; ]
      recording otr on vhs tape             [ bmiles <bmiles@[removed]; ]
      #OldRadio IRC Chat this Thursday Nig  [ lois@[removed] ]

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 18:55:26 -0400
    From: JJLjackson@[removed]
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  War of the Worlds

    I know, it's October, and the whole listening world turns to War of the Worlds.

    Last Sunday, at the Seattle Fringe Theatre Festival, I watched a local group
    of actors portray Orson and a cast of 6 doing the broadcast of War of the
    Worlds. It was interesting to me, to be sitting in the audience hearing and
    seeing another director's choices.
    In October 2000, The Radio Readers, from the Radio Enthusiasts of Puget
    Sound, joined forces with another local group, to perform War of the Worlds
    at the Museum of Flight in Seattle. The show was later broadcast on local
    radio.
    My goal was to re-create Orson's original broadcast. (and I'm very proud of
    how it turned out.)The original broadcast was males only, and I had to work
    hard to squeeze some minor roles out for women.
    So I was fairly dumb-founded when I heard the same choices for the women in
    this most recent addition. For example, I had decided, in my version, that
    the Farmer at Grover's Mill could jolly well be the wife. And then I
    instructed my actress to play her as if she were country or "Ma Kettle". I
    was amazed to hear it repeated in the same way.
    I know, if someone figures it out, another someone will figure it out as
    well. (They also made the head of CBS into a woman, something I wouldn't
    dream of messing with, and the announcer in dying New York --but I was trying
    for a historical feel.)

    But the one thing that this acting group overlooked were those pauses in the
    first 40 minutes. To me, those pauses made up another character. Every time
    there was a battle, it was followed by a pause of 7 seconds, and THEN you
    found out just how bad it was. By the third pause, the fear level increased
    in the listener at each pause. I know it's a small thing to key on, but in
    radio, timing is sometimes everything.
    When my show was broadcast, I had a hard time getting the radio station to
    leave the pauses in.

    And I was saddened to observe that this group of actors hadn't done much in
    the way of research into their roles. "2 X 2 L calling CQ" CQ means a
    specific something, but not to the actor. Since I had to find out what it
    was, in order to deliver it effectively, the information is out there for the
    getting.
     The actress chose to pause between C and Q. Sigh.

    Just a few thoughts.

    Joy Jackson
    Radio Enthusasts of Puget Sound

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 19:02:45 -0400
    From: Bhob <bhob2@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Last Radio Drama

    This is the link for NPR's 9/30 "Last Radio Drama" segment:
    [removed]

    This is the correct link for Glenn Beck's live 10/30 WAR OF THE WORLDS
    recreation: [removed]

    Bhob @ FUSEBOX CLASSIC NEWSPAPER COMIC STRIPS @
    [removed]

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 19:27:14 -0400
    From: "Stephen A Kallis, Jr." <skallisjr@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Players Aren't Everything

    Ellsworth Johnson, mentioning Fred Berney's suggestion of using VCRs to
    record OTR sound, observes,

>     I further predict that DVDs are going to almost put video recording
>     machines out of biz. .Some major stores have already discontinued
>     handling prerecorded VHS video tapes.

    Although this is more the province of The Kinescope, there is a solid OTR
    connection, so I'll make a few points here.

    It is an industry wish that VCRs be completely phased out, and some video
    chains are trying their hardest to force their customers into DVD.  There
    are several reasons, not the least of which is that DVDs are far more
    compact.  (They're far less expensive to make, too.)

    But to the OTR collector, they have one major drawback: consumer-level
    DVD units can't record.  One of the features of a VCR that helped sell
    them was that you could tape anything broadcast (or later, cablecast) for
    later viewing.  Note that the discussion of using VCRs in OTR uses has
    been as a recording device.

    (A further complication is the group of forces pushing the broadcast
    industry into HDTV, but that's outside the scope of this discussion.)

    Many years ago, with the advent of CD recording, there was a prediction
    that within a few years, the Philipps cassette would be extinct.  Yet it
    is still with us.  In fact, most of the OTR shows I have are on cassette,

    One never knows.

    Stephen A. Kakllis, Jr.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 19:27:27 -0400
    From: catfish <glasspar@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Using a VCR as an audio recorder

>     From: "Ellsworth Johnson" <eojohnsonww2@[removed];

>     Folks hi-fi VHS machines have separate heads for audio. The audio is
>     overlayed over the video but you aren't going to record any video if you are
>     using the machine for audio only-- so there is no tracking problem.

    Great tip, I've been doing it for years! I like using a VCR to occasionally record
    baseball radio broadcasts. Also good for radio concerts and other specials. Even if
    your VCR isn't a HI-FI model, you can still run a line into the audio in, select
    your tape speed, and record.

    One thing, [removed] VCR's require a video signal to go along with the audio.
    No big deal; just pick a channel. Test with your VCR before making a recording.
    Sometimes the audio will not take if there's no video signal to go along with it.

    Catfish

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 20:25:34 -0400
    From: Sandy Singer <sinatradj@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  WORD WITHOUT A VOWEL

    Psst       [not on your spell-check, but IN the [removed]]

    See, I didn't mis-spend my ENTIRE youth hangin' out at the [removed]
                                          Sandy

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 20:25:51 -0400
    From: "alanladdsr" <alanladdsr@[removed];
    To: "OTR message" <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Karl Swenson, Herb Butterfield, Everett Clarke

    Jim Cox wrote admiringly about the fine Karl Swenson (who had a nice TV
    career as well) but does anyone know bio or other personal information on
    Herb Butterfield who, like Bill Johnstone, seemed to be on everything . From
    the late 40's on he appeared on every west coast series (drama) you could
    find. Some comedy stuff too. And, earlier. I asked about Everett Clarke
    (Whistler-Chicago) with whom Mr. Singer studied under. I have a clipping
    about him having been murdered. Anyone know details?
    Don Frey

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 20:25:56 -0400
    From: SanctumOTR@[removed]
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  William Conrad GUNSMOKE Alert!

    THE RIDE BACK is debuting on The Western Channel this month, beginning this
    Thursday evening at 8pm EST, 7pm Central.  It's a 1957 film produced by and
    starring William Conrad (with Anthony Quinn co-starring).  GUNSMOKE fans will
    want to see it because Conrad optioned the film rights to Antony Ellis' story
    after the script had first appeared on the GUNSMOKE radio series.  Conrad
    plays a sheriff instead of a [removed] marshal since screen rights for Dillon were
    tied up with the TV series, but this film is as close as we'll ever get to
    seeing William Conrad portraying Matt Dillon onscreen.  It should be
    interesting. --Anthony Tollin

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 20:26:21 -0400
    From: Elizabeth McLeod <lizmcl@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Re: Cantril and Bergen

    Lee Munsick wrote:

>     Dig those last four words, folk!  Even Prof. Cantril was pulled into the
>     idea that he and we would be listening NOT to Edgar Bergen, but to Charlie
>     McCarthy.  I love it!   The power of radio!

    Actually, I should acknowledge that those particular words are mine, not
    Cantril's. But it's still a valid point -- the "Edgar Bergen"
    voice/persona/characterization/ was not heard prior to Eddy's song, but
    Charlie McCarthy was, albeit very briefly. Although "Charlie" and
    "Bergen" come out of the same throat, it's sometimes necessary to treat
    them as separate people when discussing the program. For that matter, one
    might distinguish between the real Bergen and the fictitious "Bergen"
    character he played on the air.

    Even though, despite what crazed-ventriloquist horror movies teach us, we
    really do know they *aren't* separate [removed]

    Elizabeth

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 20:27:22 -0400
    From: "David Kindred" <david@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Word without a vowel

>     After ten years, the prize was finally claimed.

    Dennis, don't keep us in suspense. What was the word?!

    The only ones that come to mind are: "Sh" and "Hmm".

    --David

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 20:48:14 -0400
    From: Lou Genco <webmaster@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Re: MP3, VCR and other storage media

    Several subscribers have shown an interest in learning more about
    appropriate MP3 players for OTR.  Others want to "stay analog" and use
    VHS tape as a storage medium for old OTR.

    More information on using VHS tape, and why a "Hi-Fi" VHS machine
    should be used rather than an older one, can be found in the OTR FAQ.
    Specifically, check question & answer #19, at
    [removed]#Q19
    for the answer.

    If you know that "digitized" means more than "covered with greasy
    fingerprints", check the quick summary of CD-based MP3 players at
    [removed]
    you can even read other OTR fans' reviews of some of these devices by
    clicking on the "Review" prompts on that page.

    [removed] belated best birthday wishes to the OTR Digest, on its 8th
    birthday.  The first OTR Digest was emailed on or about Sep 19, 1994.
    Subscribership has grown tremendously since that time, and it remains
    a well-managed and informative document, thanks to Charlie!

    (If you are interested in where, when and how OTR got on the WWW,
    check    [removed]  )

    If you are a "newbie" to the hobby, you might find the official OTR
    FAQ, at  [removed] , quite informative.  If
    you are an old-timer, you might find a few gems there too.

    Wondering if an OTR show exists, and is available to the public?
    Check the beta version of the Humongous OTR Database Search Engine, at
    [removed]  -- an OTR database with 89,000
    shows listed.

    (whew, this almost turned into an "infomercial"!  <grin>)

    --
    Lou

    THE WWW site for "Old Time Radio":         [removed]

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 20:48:29 -0400
    From: dantrigg422@[removed]
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Soap Operas, Radio Spirits
    X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative
    X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain

    A reader of the digest ask about "Soaps" sometime back, and if anyone besides
    himself liked them. Well I'm here to tell you I like um myself. At this time
    I'm into "Widder Brown, Ma Perkins, and The Story of Aunt Mary".
    "The Easy Aces", if it can be considered a soap I'm crazy about.

    I hate to bitch, but Radio Spirits is getting to me. I ordered 50 "When Radio
    Was" tapes on 7/1/02, paid for fast shipment, and have not received them yet.
    Then fool that I am, I ordered the new "Bob Hope" set 9/24/02, and again paid
    for fast shipment, and as yet have not received the tapes. When you call them
    the only thing the know how to say is that they are back [removed] this an
    anomaly, or is anyone else having this problem?

    Sincerely,
    Dan

      *** This message was altered by the server, and may not appear ***
      ***                  as the sender intended.                   ***

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 21:28:37 -0400
    From: "Irene Heinstein" <IreneTH@[removed];
    To: "OTR" <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Another DVD/MP3 player

    I'm a big fan of [removed]    They have a DVD/MP3 player available
    right now.  It's an RCA RC6001P 'Progressive Scan' DVD/MP3 Player.   They're
    selling it for $[removed]   List price is given as $[removed]   I know nothing
    about it nor do I know what 'progressive scan' means; just passing the info
    alone.  Here's the link to the item page.

    [removed];PROD_ID=52471&cid=23679&fp=F

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 00:41:40 -0400
    From: Fred Berney <berney@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Re: MP3 again

    A recent issue of one of the trade magazines I get happened to mention
    different types of sound files and list the MP3 128 kps as being the
    standard for low quality sound recordings.

    What I understand this to mean is that 128 is a standard. Be it high
    quality or low quality. It is a standard, which means when a manufacturer
    of a MP3 player is considering which files it will play, the manufacturer
    will most likely select those that fall in the category of being standards.

    Keep in mind who the biggest market for MP3 files is. Kids. Okay, I'm using
    the term loosely. Music fans would be a better term. People who want to put
    their entire collect or all their favorite music on as few CDs as possible.

    We OTR collectors are in a very big minority. I'm really surprised that
    even one manufacturer has seen to it to include all the possible encodings
    into their player. Most copies look at who their market is and adjust their
    product for that market.

    About 10 years ago, a group of 50 companies that recorded business
    conferences started an association. Almost all of us used the Maranze PMD
    recorder. I own 22 of these recorders and many of the other members owned
    50 or more. So, we were talking about 2500 or more machines. We wrote to
    Maranze and asked them to consider some changes in their next design that
    would be a benefit to us.

    Their answer was that we were too small a market. Their markets were
    schools, hotels, radio stations and other large users.

    My point is that even though a great number of OTR collectors are using
    MP3, it is a small market compared to the teenage music market.

    So, I'm not surprised that the two DVD players that I own, that can play
    MP3 files, will not play back a file encoded in the 22 or 32 kps mode. The
    STANDARD for most manufacturers is 128/44. Like it or not, these are the
    facts. Will other manufacturers change and include 32/22 or 22/22? I have
    no idea. But, if it cost a lot more to include this rate, the chances are
    they will not.

    The Rio player is now one of the higher priced players on the market. You
    can now buy a number of MP3 players for under $100. And many of these are
    from major manufacturers. I honestly doubt that companies that are now
    producing players in the "under $100" price range, will start to up the
    price of their players to include the lower compression rates. (For those
    who watch ever word, like my wife, I'm using lower to mean the actual
    number ((digit)). [You have to be married for 38 years to understand that
    comment]

    Right now, I'm not aware of any DVD player that will playback an MP3 disc
    recorded at 22 or 32 kps.

    For those who want to really get into this, come to FOTR in New Jersey in
    just a few weeks. John Gallagher and I are doing a session on OTR and the
    media collectors use. Each of us will be covering a different topic and MP3
    will be a small part of my talk. Very small, since this a lot more to OTR
    collecting than MP3. But, we will both be around at and after the session
    to field questions and concerns about MP3 and other subjects that deal with
    preserving OTR.

    Fred
    [removed] (it is not only TV. Lots of radio, but a much easier URL to
    type)

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 01:53:40 -0400
    From: Fred Berney <berney@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Re: VHS Tape and OTR

    At 07:14 PM 10/1/02 -0400, you wrote:

>      I remember a
>     year or two ago someone on the digest took this a step
>     further and planned to use a Hi-Fi VCR to record 12
>     hours on one T-120 tape with 6 hours on the left
>     channel and 6 hours on the right channel, I don't
>     think he ever reported the results.

    I agree with Tom completely and let me just add, please don't record one
    show on one track and a second show on another track. You'll create "cross
    talk". Very few, if any, amplifier are built to have zero cross talk
    between tracks. Stereo recorders expect the same information to be on both
    tracks, with just the mike placement being the difference.

    If you record one show on the left track and another show on the right
    track and then turn up the volume on just one of the tracks, or use
    headphones, way, and sometimes no so way, in the distance you will hear the
    other program.

    I have a 1200 ft. reel of tape that I received in a trade years ago. It
    contains 4 hours of Our Miss Brooks, all with cross talk. Someone along the
    line, decided to make a dub of the entire tape by recording both left and
    right channels at the same time. Even though each went through separate
    cables, most tape recorders only have about -40db of cross talk. (I'll be
    honest, I can't remember the exact number and my books are downstairs) But
    whatever the number is, it still means that some of what is recorded on the
    left channel will get into the right channel and some of what is in the
    right channel will get into the left channel.

    Media is cheap today. Back in 1952, as a 13 year old with not a very big
    allowance, I was paying $[removed] at retail for a 1200 ft. reel of Scotch (3M)
    tape. On my monaural half track recorder, that amounted to 2 hours of
    material at 3 3/4 ips, or 1 hour at 7 1/2 ips. Today a C-60 audio cassette
    can be purchased for way under $[removed] and Mini Disc, that can hold 2 or more
    hours of material, only cost around $[removed] And of course, CDs are almost free.

    So, if a 13 year old could manage to assemble several hundred tapes on a
    very small allowance, putting shows on cassette or other types of media
    today, at high levels of settings should not be a factor.

    Fred
    [removed]

    Fred
    For the best in Old Time Radio Shows [removed]

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 01:53:50 -0400
    From: Fred Berney <berney@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Re: VCR control track

    At 07:14 PM 10/1/02 -0400, you wrote:

>      I seem to remember hearing somewhere that
>     there is something in the video signal that the VCR needs to run at a
>     stable speed.  (By doing this you end up with an unrelated "silent movie"
>     on your TV screen.  Just ignore it).

    It is called a control track. This is what the VCR syncs to when playing a
    tape. It keeps the tape moving at the exact same speed it was moving when
    it was recorded. Without this track, the speed would vary and the picture
    would break up.

    Audio cassette recorders use wild motors. They are close to 1 7/8 ips, but
    it is very rare to find to machines that run at the exact same speed. Even
    if they are of the same model and make. Test this. Transfer something, (a
    record, CD, another tape) to a cassette tape on one machine. Then take a
    second cassette and record the same thing, using the same recorder. So you
    now have two audio cassettes, each recorded on the same machine and each
    containing the same information.

    Take a second audio cassette recorder. Place one tape in one machine and
    the second tape in the second machine. Locate the exact starting point of
    the music or whatever you recorded on both tape machines. Then start both
    machines playing at the exact same time. In just a few seconds, one of the
    machines will be running faster or slower than the other. Usually in less
    than a minute, the two machines will be at least 5 seconds or more out of sync.

    If you were to make the same test using two VCR recorders, you will find
    that the recorders will play back the tapes in perfect sync for the entire
    length of the tape.

    If you have ever wondered why some shows sound faster or slower on some
    cassettes, just think about the above information and consider what happens
    when collectors dub tapes from one machine to the next.

    In the world of digital recording, speed variation is not a factor. The
    speed is always the same from recorder to recorder.

    Fred
    [removed]

    Fred
    For the best in Old Time Radio Shows [removed]

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 02:24:45 -0400
    From: bmiles <bmiles@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  recording otr on vhs tape

    For those wanting to record OTR on your VHS VCR,  you must have a video
    signal going into your vcr, otherwise the audio will vary in speed due
    to the vcr having nothing to  constantly lock to. I worked in a
    university tv distribution center for 25 years and learned that basic
    principle right off the bat!

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 04:52:02 -0400
    From: lois@[removed]
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  #OldRadio IRC Chat this Thursday Night!

    A weekly [removed]

    For the best in OTR Chat, join IRC (Internet Relay Chat), StarLink-IRC
    Network, the channel name is #OldRadio.  We meet Thursdays at 8 PM Eastern
    and go on, and on! The oldest OTR Chat Channel, it has been in existence
    over five years, same time, same channel!

    Our numerous "regulars" include one of the busiest "golden years" actors in
    Hollywood; a sound man from the same era who worked many of the top
    Hollywood shows; a New York actor famed for his roles in "Let's Pretend" and
    "Archie Andrews;" owners of some of the best OTR sites on the Web;
    maintainer of the best-known OTR Digest (we all know who he is)..........

    and Me

    Lois Culver
    KWLK Longview Washington (Mutual) 1941-1944)
    KFI Los Angeles (NBC) 1944 - 1950
    and widow of actor Howard Culver

    (For more info, contact lois@[removed])

    --------------------------------
    End of [removed] Digest V2002 Issue #385
    *********************************************

    Copyright [removed] Communications, York, PA; All Rights Reserved,
      including republication in any form.

    If you enjoy this list, please consider financially supporting it:
       [removed]

    For Help: [removed]@[removed]

    To Unsubscribe: [removed]@[removed]

    To Subscribe: [removed]@[removed]
      or see [removed]

    For Help with the Archive Server, send the command ARCHIVE HELP
      in the SUBJECT of a message to [removed]@[removed]

    To contact the listmaster, mail to listmaster@[removed]

    To Send Mail to the list, simply send to [removed]@[removed]