
 SEE INFO SECTION AT END OF THIS DIGEST FOR UNSUBSCRIBE AND OTHER INFORMATION. 
	  	         === Last Update 1/17/95  ====





	    [removed]   Volume 96 : Issue 39


Articles in this issue of [removed]:

	 [removed] vs Public [removed] Property
	 Re: Squeaky tapes, [removed] Digest V96 #34
	 Re: Public Domain? [removed] Digest V96 #34
	 otr on tv
	 Chickenman
	 This is a radio hobbyists' forum
	 Amos 'n Andy
	 new member
	 "Spoken Word" store
	 Henry Aldrich Movies
	 Looking for Jack Benny tape
	 John Brown
	 WELLES LOG
	 OTR movies on AMC
	 Question
	 resending:

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 05:03:38 -0500
From: MTPawckett@[removed]
To: otr@[removed]
Subject: [removed] vs Public [removed] Property
Message-ID: <960129050337_209017038@[removed]>

Well, I've been away for a few days and haven't had a chance to read what's
up and so some of what I have to say may have been covered, but here's my .02
 This is not directed at any one individual or individuals, but rather
something that we all (myself included) could probably benefit from adhearing
to.

RE: [removed], I request that if you have an opinion regarding something
pertaining to OTR you share it.  If you disagree with someone else's opinion,
share your opinion.  If you disagree with someone's opinion and want to put
that person down for having their opinion or wish to flame the other opinion
(as opposed to just sharing your own) please email the poster.  Name calling
and putting down an idea because you don't like it or because it differs
doesn't further anything.  [removed] If you disagree with MY opinion regarding
this topic or others, I encourage you to share your opinion on this digest.
 Please share your ideas and present them for their merit without putting
down me or my opinion.  If however, you want to put down my opinion (or me)
please email me directly.  This will keep the culture of this digest positive
without suppressing people's freedom to share their opinions.

RE: Copyright: There is public domain.  This covers anything that is not
copyrighted.  Something not being copyrighted can happen in a couple of ways:

1. The copyright runs out (there have been a couple different legal
structures for how long copyright exists-regardless, something enters the
public domain when the copyright runs out)
2. The item in question was never copyrighted.

As far as someone taking a public domain item, changing it and then
re-copyrighting it, they can only copyright the changes they made or more
specifically what they created.  For example,  I adapted a French farce from
the 1400's (public domain) for a performing group that I direct.  I
copyrighted my version, but only the changes I made (what I created) are
copyrightable by me.  Perhaps a more clear example would be if I took the
same farce and put it to public domain music.  The new musical version would
bear my copyright, but I wouldn't own the copyright to either the farce or
the music (they would still be in the public domain).

If you've made it this far, thanks for reading.

New Topic: (sort [removed]) regarding intellectual rights and OTR.  I am a writer
and a collector and a performer and director.  As a writer, I want my work
protected.  As an OTR collector and director/performer of theatre, I'd love
to be able to own/use whatever material there is without having to worry
about costs and legalities.  However, I have chosen to live in a society that
makes it illegal to use copyrighted material without permission.  So, I then
have choices to make.  I can choose to break the law and use other people's
material without permission and hope I don't get caught (or pay the
consequences if I do) or I can follow the established procedure for
presenting someone else's work ([removed] receive permission from the copyright
holder and pay whatever royalties required) or I can choose to use material
that is in the public domain.  There are other choices, but those three are
the ones that came to mind first.  I don't believe that my motive, however
honorable, can justify my using other's materials without permission.  For
example, I might want to put on a show that would encourage people to
[removed](something noble) and want to use someone's script to make that
point.  And, let's say, I don't have much money, so I want to "use" the
script without permission (after all, I have a noble cause).  Well, my noble
cause, imho, doesn't justify the "stealing" of this person's work.  It can,
however, encourage me to be creative.  I can enroll others in my cause and
generate the money needed.  I could write my own show (or enroll some else to
do so).  Justifications are just that-justifications.  They don't make it
"Right".  

If you have a different opinion than I do, great, please feel free to share
it either here or email me directly.  If you don't like what I post here,
please email me with your opinion.

When I started posting this, I wasn't sure if it really fit within the intent
of this digest.  After reading through it, I believe it does as OTR
Collecting deals with issue on a daily basis.  Does our desire to keep the
hobby alive justify breaking the law? ([removed] selling/trading tapes that are
copyrighted to someone else so that we can "preserve the hobby")  

You decide.

Thanks for [removed]

dave lind  {:o)  the smiling clown   email: MTPawckett@[removed]

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Jan 96 10:51 GMT
From: midshires@[removed] (Andrew Emmerson)
To: [removed]@[removed]
Cc: midshires@[removed]
Subject: Re: Squeaky tapes, [removed] Digest V96 #34
Message-Id: <[removed]@[removed]>

In-Reply-To: <[removed]@[removed]>
>NO ONE from 3-M or Ampex has ever recommended using water.   Nothing 
personal against the folks who say water is the miracle cure for squeaky 
[removed] stating the solution professionals recommend. 

Possibly nobody from Ampex or 3M recommended using [removed] but Sony UK 
Ltd certainly set up a tape copying rig using fluid lubrication. This was 
for half-inch video tape and was used, without publicity, for a number of 
years to copy customers' squeaking tapes onto fresh stock. I seem to 
think it was a glycerine solution they used (it's some years since I 
spoke to the guy who was there at the time). Whilst baking is the 
preferred solution now, I don't think that technique had been invented in 
the late 70s/early 80s. I suspect it demands greater operator expertise 
than the fluid system as well.
--Andy.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Jan 96 10:51 GMT
From: midshires@[removed] (Andrew Emmerson)
To: [removed]@[removed]
Cc: midshires@[removed]
Subject: Re: Public Domain? [removed] Digest V96 #34
Message-Id: <[removed]@[removed]>

In-Reply-To: <[removed]@[removed]>
>Once a work enters the public domain it remains there [removed]
Perhaps in American law but not in Europe. We have just had pan-European 
harmonisation of copyright law and one of the side effects is that 
musical works which  in some countries had ceased to be copyright (after 
50 years) have gone back into copyright (new standard is 75 years). 
Apparently this is creating all sorts of problems, such as to whom does 
the copyright revert - the original assignee or the last one? By all 
accounts, it's a can of worms.

In a broader sense, copyright can easily be re-created. A recording over 
50 years old may well be out of copyright and you may decide you wish to 
distribute copies of it. [removed] if you don't have a copy yourself and end 
up having to buy a copy from the original copyright owner, a new 
copyright is established. Take a piece of newsreel film from the 1930s. 
If you buy an original print of that film at a fleamarket or swapmeet, 
fine, you can go ahead and exploit it. But if you have to approach the 
film archive and buy a new print of that newsreel (on film or videotape), 
then a new copyright is created. That's the way the law runs here in 
Britain.

There have been some interesting situations where people have attempted 
to distribute over here movies which are in the public domain in the USA. 
The rights owners stamped on them very hard, because these works are 
_not_ public domain anywhere else.
--Andy.                 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 07:26:01 -0400 (EDT)
From: wmackey@[removed]
To: "otr@[removed]" <otr@[removed]>
Subject: otr on tv
Message-id: <[removed]@[removed]>

Anyone who saw The Lucy Show Saturday night on Nick at Nite was in for a 
treat.  In addition to Gale Gordon, Jack Benny quest starred as a plumber 
and Willard Waterman as the host of a talent show.  It was a delight to 
see Waterman after the recent discussion here.  
Joe Mackey
Huntington, WV

PS: Sorry this is so late, but couldn't get on line yesterday, all lines 
were busy.  :(
  

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 09:41:55 -0500
From: "Robert E. Yellen" <ryellen@[removed]>
To: otr@[removed]
Subject: Chickenman
Message-ID: <10cdd4b0@[removed]>

>Does any radio drama qualify as OTR, or is there a generally recognized
>cut-off point or standard?  For example, I enjoyed the Chickenman programs in
>the mid 60's, and never see any mention in cataloges, etc.  Is the
>hobby/business limited to just the pioneers?

The RHAC catalog lists several reels of Chichkenman.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 28 Jan 96 14:16:20 EST
From: platecap@[removed] (Bob B)
To: otr@[removed]
Cc: AndyBlatt@[removed]
Subject: This is a radio hobbyists' forum
Message-Id: <m0tgvCi-000YO5C@[removed]>

Of course, we appreciate the legal insight on certain issues of
copyright as it pertains to classic radio shows.

Perhaps it should be noted, however, that (at least from what I've read
here for the 6 mC[Dhs or more) that this is a place for radio
collectors, hobbyists and fans to exchange ideas thoughts and
information on radio programs.

I don't think it is a place to discuss the technicalities of
intellecutual property rights ad nauseum.  I had thought the owner of
this list had made that clear some time ago.

When I see a large percentage of a whole issue comprised of one person
mostly beating up on fellow hobbyists, and making sarcastic, degrading
comments, I am disappointed.

Tens of thousands of shows exist thanks to the efforts of people like us
who have a genuine passion for radio.  Unfortunately, big business has
seen fit to take many shows away from us the we preserved at our own
personal expense.  Don't give me the arguement that they weren't "ours"
to begin with.  If such a copyright holder did exist, they obviously
didn't CARE about the shows for the 50 plus years the show DIDN'T exist
(until one of us put it in a hobbyist catalog).

In order to PRESERVE a copyright, the rights holder must ENFORCE those
rights technically.  In the practical world, however, this law doesn't
apply.  The law that applies is WHOEVER HAS THE MOST MONEY WINS.
Whoever has the most money controls.  Whoever has the most money can
rule the world.  The old time radio world is not exempt from this.

I can only repeat what has been written elsewhere.  Support your old
time radio clubs and support your favorite HOBBYIST DEALERS.  Sooner or
later, every club lending library and dealer tape had better show
someones (C) and/or (R) mark.  It is just a matter of time before Big
Business will control everything that anyone has the slightest notion of
being sellable, tradeable or rentable.  The movie industry got a head
start.  How long do you think a video rental store would stay in
business if they rented unauthorized copies?  This is good for that
industry.  But in the case of old time radio collecting, it will bring
about the demise of the many organizations and people who made it
possible -- and GREATLY limit the availability of old time radio to only
the rich.

Those are my comments and my final comments on this topic.  Tear them up
if you wish, but there is no point in further comments.

SUPPORT YOUR FAVORITE OLD TIME RADIO CLUB!  They won't be there forever.

Bob Burnham; BRC Productions; [removed] Box 2645; Livonia, MI 48151
voice (313) 277-3798;  fax (313) 277-3095; internet platecap@[removed]

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 09:25:37 -0500
From: nscott@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Amos 'n Andy
Message-Id: <[removed]@[removed]>

I was in a discussion recently about the Amos 'n Andy radio shows, and was
somewhat surprised to hear that these where, in fact, white actors. Or at
least some of them were white.

Is this true?  What about the tv version?  Seems the same key actors were
involved, and they didn't look white to me.  If they were white, what was
the reaction among the black community?

The writing, the timing, and the characters were incredibly good.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 10:27:55 -0800 (PST)
From: Thomas Hood <tomhood@[removed]>
To: otr@[removed]
Subject: new member
Message-ID: <[removed]@[removed]>

Greetings! This is my first [removed] am a collector of classical and 
concert broadcasts of the 30's 40's & 50'[removed] such as the 
metropolitan opera,the voice of firestone,bell telephone hour,the 
standard hour [removed] also have about 2000 programs of drama,[removed]
I make good dubs and enjoy trading cassettes on a one for one basis.
I look forward to hearing from fellow collectors.
Thank you  Tom Hood

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Jan 96 10:16:28 PST
From: "Bates, Robert" <rbates@[removed]>
To: otr@[removed]
Subject: "Spoken Word" store
Message-Id: <[removed]@[removed]>

I don't know if this has been mentioned on this list before, but there is a 
store that opened last year in New York called "The Spoken Word," which features 
tapes and CDS of golden age radio, comedy, readings of audio books, etc. 

I just heard of it recently, and I went in there hoping there would be a great 
selection of stuff. There wasn't, but I think it's a cool idea for a store, and 
something New York radio fans probably should support. It's on 285 West Broadway 
in Soho.

Rob

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 12:26:02 -0600 (CST)
From: fkorb@[removed]
To: OTR@[removed]
Subject: Henry Aldrich Movies
Message-Id: <[removed]@[removed]>

To all collectors looking for Henry Aldrich Movies,

I have all 11 movies on video and am willing to trade any or all of
them. If you are interested and want to trade, let me know.

Fred Korb - ORCATS Secretary

Oldtime Radio Collectors and Traders Society

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Jan 96 13:53:12 -0800
From: "Ethan J. Muse" <ejmuse@[removed]>
To: otr@[removed]
Subject: Looking for Jack Benny tape
Message-Id: <[removed]@[removed]>

Hello All.

This is my first time to see this forum.  I'm 21 years old, and have been 
a fan of Jack Benny for a little over 5 years now.  I have many, many 
tapes, but there is one episode in particular that I'm looking for.  Does 
anyone know if there is a tape available of the Christmas Shopping show 
of 1946, where Jack buys the pair of shoelaces from Mel Blanc for Don 
Wilson.  I've heard most of the other Christmas Shopping shows, but is 
one that I've never been able to find.  If anyone knows where I can get a 
copy of this tape, please e-mail me at ejmuse@[removed]

Ethan J. Muse

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Jan 96 22:46:07 +0100
From: Marcus_Antonsson@[removed] (Marcus Antonsson)
To: otr@[removed]
Subject: John Brown
Message-Id: <OA92-901-213p1_001c4f28@[removed]>

Hi Friends,
I should be very glad if someone could tell me about John Brown Who
appeared in comedys during the fourties. I've heard him in the life of
Riley and My friend Irma and I think he's a fine actor. But I don'tknow
anything about him. Is he still alive? What other programs was he in?
Anyone who can tell me?
 
Regards:
Marc

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 17:15:51 -0500
From: SeptSev@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: WELLES LOG
Message-ID: <960129171524_130518425@[removed]>

[removed]
Is there an Orson Welles OTR master log floating around anywhere?
Regards,
Thom Bray
septsev@[removed]

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 17:50:54 -0500 (EST)
From: Randy Minnehan <rminneha@[removed]>
To: OTR@[removed]
Subject: OTR movies on AMC
Message-ID: <[removed]@acme>

Hi [removed]

   Just a reminder to everyone that on Wednesday, 31 Jan. on cable-tv's
"American Movie Classics" (AMC), they will be showing otr-related movies
all day long, starting at 12 midnight (Tuesday night/Wednesday morning)
for 24 hours!  I'm not going to list the whole line-up and times here, but
they start off with a FIBBER McGEE & MOLLY movie, then 3 or 4 GREAT
GLIDERSLEVEE movies.  Check your local tv listings for more info and
times, and learn to set your VCR!

--------------------------------------------------
|Randy Minnehan - rminneha@[removed]|
--------------------------------------------------
[removed]  This copywrite stuff has turned into nothing more than a flame war
again. Marty: get off your high horse and take a chill pill.  Gee whiz.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 17:06:13 -0800 (PST)
From: jnestero@[removed] (John Nesteroff)
To: otr@[removed]
Subject: Question
Message-Id: <[removed]@[removed]>

Am I the youngest subscriber to this list?

-Cliff "15 year old" Nesteroff

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Jan 96 19:00:11 PST
From: seh@[removed] (Stan Harter)
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: resending:
Message-Id: <[removed]@[removed]>

>From seh Mon Jan 29 00:50 PST 1996 forwarded by seh
Status: RO

***** UNDELIVERABLE MAIL sent to otr@[removed], being returned by oes1!seh *****
mail: Error # 8 'Invalid recipient' encountered on system oes1

To: otr@[removed]
Subject: RADIO SHACK DX-132


We all received a message about this radio on 13 Jan 1996 in which it was
claimed that this regularly $[removed] radio "is on sale during the month
of January for $[removed]" So, on the 25th, I called several Radio Shacks to
determine availability and confirm the price. I was told by all of them
that the sale was ONLY for the first 7 days of January! They do have a
model DX-390 on sale for $[removed]  Since I don't know anything about
the DX-390 (nothing about in on the OTR) and the DX-132 information
was erroneous, I did nothing.

------------------------------

    


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---- 
End of [removed] Digest V96 Issue #39

