------------------------------
The Old-Time Radio Digest!
Volume 2001 : Issue 268
A Part of the [removed]!
ISSN: 1533-9289
Today's Topics:
RE: shows that make you cry [ Susan Flewelling <kmm@[removed] ]
What Ever Be Came Of? [ "Stephen A Kallis, Jr." <skallisjr@ ]
Re: V&S Recordings and Syndication [ Elizabeth McLeod <lizmcl@[removed] ]
Re: I can hear it [removed] [ Michael Biel <mbiel@[removed]; ]
Dragnet correction [ "Ryan Osentowski" <rosentowski@neb. ]
Re: TV-Radio Stereo [ Michael Biel <mbiel@[removed]; ]
Ellery Queen book [ "Martin Grams, Jr." <mmargrajr@hotm ]
Have Gun - Will Travel [ "Martin Grams, Jr." <mmargrajr@hotm ]
Gracie Mansion [ "A. Joseph Ross" <lawyer@attorneyro ]
OTR Sponsors [ "A. Joseph Ross" <lawyer@attorneyro ]
Whatever happened [removed] [ vigor16@[removed] ]
some nice early ET's for sale [ "Art Shifrin" <goldens2@[removed] ]
OTR Sponsors [ Bhob <bhob2@[removed]; ]
Early Radio Schedule [ "David H. Buswell" <dbuswell@rivnet ]
Inner Sanctum tapes [ otrbuff@[removed] ]
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 00:46:42 -0400
From: Susan Flewelling <kmm@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: RE: shows that make you cry
There's only one so far that has bothered me that way - I listened to it
once and found it so upsetting I just can't listen to it again: Its a
Shadow episode from 12/10/39 called "Flight of the Vulture" - basically its
about an insurance scam whereby the villans are substituting valuable race
horses with old tired worn out horses in barns and burning the barns down
to collect the insurance money. I get upset thinking about it. I've left
it in my collection but its marked so I don't play it by mistake.
Susan Flewelling
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 00:47:06 -0400
From: "Stephen A Kallis, Jr." <skallisjr@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: What Ever Be Came Of?
J Stokes, asking about the availability of products from OTR days,
queries,
Kellogg's "Pep" cereal, which was far from peppy in the bowl.
It could be found in Kelloggs Variety Packs into the 1970s, now extinct.
It did sog easily, and had a taste equivalent to cardboard and Wheaties
combined. (Strangely, as a kid I liked it. As an adult, i had second
thoughts.)
That's the only one I'm sure of the fate of.
Stephen A. Kallis, Jr.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 00:47:11 -0400
From: Elizabeth McLeod <lizmcl@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: Re: V&S Recordings and Syndication
On 8/18/01 10:42 PM OldRadio Mailing Lists wrote:
In anyone's experience, is there any evidence that "Vic and Sade" was ever
considered for syndication or extension spotting?
V&S was *definitely* extension-spotted in Canada along with many other
P&G daytime shows, probably beginning in 1940 and continuing until the
end of the original run in 1944. However, extension-spotting discs were
required to be destroyed or returned to the distributor after use, and
it's most likely that when we speak of "Procter and Gamble destroying the
transcriptions," it's these spotting discs that we're talking about. No
evidence exists to suggest that the series was being recorded as a matter
of course in the 1930s. (The NBC Collection at the LOC has 173 V&S
episodes, none dating before 1939, and only a few scattered pre-1939
episodes are currently known to exist from other sources.)
The postwar syndication of "Easy Aces" was an anomaly, and came about
only because several essential conditions were met -- it required that
(1) a long run of the shows would have been recorded, in a format that
would have been appropriate for rebroadcast (2) that the recordings would
have been carefully preserved after their initial use, and (3) that they
would have been owned by the copyright owner of the series. "Easy Aces"
met all of these criteria -- the discs were high-quality recordings made
off the network line by RCA Victor and initially distributed as vinyl
pressings, meaning that the discs in Goodman Ace's possession were both
chemically stable and resistant to breakage. Ace had carefully stored the
discs in sleeves, keeping them in broadcast-quality condition, and he was
also the copyright owner of the series itself. All he needed was a
distributor, and he happened to hit Ziv at just the right time to make
the deal happen. The only other example comparable to this that comes to
mind is the 1960s syndication of "Lum and Abner," which again came about
because the series had originally been recorded for extension spotting
and copies of the discs had been carefully preserved by Lauck and Goff,
the owners of the series.
As easy as it is to condemn P&G for dumping its V&S discs (and does
anyone actually have documentation for when and how this happened, or is
it simply hearsay? I know Billy Idelson has told this story, but does
anyone know where *he* got the story from? For that matter, do we know
for a fact if it was P&G at all? The recordings were actually made for
Compton Advertising, P&G's agency), one must keep in mind that *P&G had
no legal claim on V&S.* It had no legal right to use or exploit the show
beyond its initial broadcast, and from a purely business perspective
destroying the recordings was the only reasonable thing to do.
Had *Paul Rhymer* owned and preserved a run of discs, the possibility of
syndication might have been different, since he was the copyright owner
of the program and could have made an Ace/Ziv type of arrangement to
distribute them. But even if P&G or Compton had saved a pristine copy of
every single V&S episode, they would have been legally powerless to do
anything with them.
Elizabeth
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 00:51:53 -0400
From: Michael Biel <mbiel@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Re: I can hear it [removed]
From: "vze2m645@[removed]" <vze2m645@[removed];
Not one challenge the good Dr. Biel, but wasn't their also a set:
Sounds of the Sixties, I can hear it now- with Walter Cronkite?
I think I have it in my collection Michael Muderick
Yes, and although the first version came out as "I Can Hear It Now--The
Sixties", the cover was later changed to just a large picture of
Cronkite instead of a collage of events, and a new title based on his
catchphrase rather than Murrow's, "Walter Cronkite: The Way It Was--The
Sixties" (CBS F3M-38858).
A friend of mine who was a CBS radio news archivist in the 1970s worked
on getting the clips for the album. I remembered him telling me how
busy they were under a short deadline, so when 1980 rolled around I
asked him if they were busy getting the clips for a 1970s album. "No",
he sadly replied, because by that time CBS no longer had any interest in
doing audio-only retrospectives, only video. Hence no albums on the
last three decades have come from CBS.
There has been a slight break in this attitude at CBS. In 1991 they
issued a 2-CD set "The Words and Music of World War II" (C2K 48516)
which contains a lot of material that was not in the Murrow album--but
it does have a portion of the phony recording of Robert Trout announcing
the end of the war which Trout admitted making specifically for the
Murrow album. I've noted a new repackaging of this CD set in the stores
in the past couple of months--I think with a different title and
catalogue number. I am still hoping that if it sells this might
convince them to reissue the Murrow recordings (with clear info on what
is phony, and with the unissued album) and maybe fill in the years after
1957.
Ed Ellers asks if the Volume 4 I heard was at the CBS News archive or
Sony Music Entertainment. I assume both. The tape I heard back in 1982
was from the CBS Radio News Archive, and because it was a known source
for CBS producers, my second friend at the CBS Radio News Archive had
thought that EVERYBODY knew about it, and he was rather astonished when
__I__ was astonished when he had casually mentioned it in conversation.
Our assumptions are that the original master is at Columbia Records,
which is now Sony. But all of these questions are leading me to call up
another friend who is a classical producer for the Columbia Legacy
series to see what he knows about all this.
A. Joseph Ross questioned Stephen Kallis's story about the 1948 issue
date for the LP issue of the first volume because that was the year LPs
were introduced. The 78 RPM set MM 800 and the LP ML-4095 were both
issued simultaneously in 1948. Columbia's initial LP release was in
June 1948, and by the July list they were already up to ML-4082 in that
12-inch Masterworks series. There's no reason to doubt its 1948
release--the fact that the LP version was cheaper than the 78 set was
used as a major selling point publicizing the LP format during the 1948
Xmas season.
BUT, he is correct that Stephen's story is mis-dated, but that is
because of two other reasons. Both the 45 RPM speed and the Broadway
show "South Pacific" date from 1949. (The show opened April 7, 1949.
ML-4180 was issued a few months later--and was also priced MUCH less
than the 78 set, MM-850.) It would be impossible for his father to have
bought a 3-speed turntable because they had no reason to exist till
1949. In fact, another statement in his story is wrong because it is
not true that "even the earliest of the changers were 3-speed units".
When Columbia introduced the LP they had Philco making a single speed LP
turntable nicknamed "The Clam" (because of the shape of the covered
case) which could be plugged into existing radio-phonos. By the end of
the year Philco was making a 2-speed changer with two arms, one for 78s
and the other for LPs. Ironically, only the 78 arm could be used
automatically. LPs had to be played one-by-one. This eliminated their
time advantage by not permitting the use of a stack of LPs!!!!! When
RCA introduced the 45 in April 1949 they purposefully made it difficult
to include it as a 3rd speed on the 2 speed players becuase the
quick-change feature would only be possible on a small turntable with a
short arm. The first RCA Victor consoles to include the new speed had
two separate changers for 78s and 45s--RCA Victor would not admit that
the LP existed until 1950. But other companies did have 3-speed
changers and turntables by the end of 1949, and that must have been when
Stephen Kallis's father bought his. My father bought our 3-speed
Webster-Chicago in 1950, but continued to cherish his 78 RPM set of
"South Pacific".
Michael Biel mbiel@[removed]
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 00:51:48 -0400
From: "Ryan Osentowski" <rosentowski@[removed];
To: "old time radio" <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: Dragnet correction
Hi all:
Michael was discussing the Dragnet program, "A Gun for Christmas" in the
previous issue. He was comparing the performances of Bill Johnstone to Vic
Perrin. I must point out that it was not Vic Perrin who played the grieving
father in the later versions of this story. It was an actor named,
Whitfield Conner. Perrin played Chief Thad Brown in that version.
RyanO
"Life is an unrelenting comedy. Therein, lies the tragedy of it."
Dean Koontz
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 00:51:44 -0400
From: Michael Biel <mbiel@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Re: TV-Radio Stereo
From: robert <gudguyus@[removed];
As late as the early 90's on Christmas Eve in New York City you
could tune your TV to a station that had a continuous loop of the
fireplace Yule Log blazing away ... You could also tune your radio
in for a simulcast of the same music. Rob
This has little to do with the original topic. We were discussing the
1950s practice of having two separate mono stations broadcasting the
separate stereo channels on their different stations. For example, the
TV station broadasting only the left channel while the radio station
broadcasts only the right channel. (Or an AM and FM pair of stations,
or AM-FM-TV broadcasting three-channel stereo.) Because both TV and
radio stations could broadcast stereo audio individually by the 1990s,
what you are describing is an ordinary simulcast.
However, it is conceivable that some people don't have stereo TVs, so
they could use the radio station for stereo audio. This was done in a
few special instances prior to the introduction of stereo sound on
broadcast TV. Lee Munsick mentioned it being done for some PBS programs
in New York. We also had it done occasionally here in Kentucky because
our Kentucky Educational Television network didn't get stereo audio
until about three years ago.
Michael Biel mbiel@[removed]
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 00:51:41 -0400
From: "Martin Grams, Jr." <mmargrajr@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Ellery Queen book
Steve Kostelecky writes:
Martin's posts on EQ reminded me to drag out a book I got from the back of a
mystery mag in the eighties called "The Sound of Detection: Ellery Queen's
Adventures in Radio" by Francis M. Nevins Jr. and Ray Stanich. This 109-page
book may be well-known and widely circulated, I don't know. It was published
by Brownstone Books in 1983. It has a log in the back that lists programs
available on tape or published in book or mag form as of that time. Since
Brownstone was a mystery house I wasn't sure if anyone was familiar with the
book. Hope this may be helpful.
Actually, the book is out-of-print, but both Francis and I are in the midst
of completing a revised edition. The original 1983 book was 109 pages thick.
Since it's printing, the scripts to the entire series have surfaced as
well as much updated info and trivia. We're planning for an early 2001
release, through yours truly, and alread it's about 250 pages thick. The
book is already in rough draft form. The radio log has been updated
ten-fold, with production credits and plots, something the initial
publication did not. If anyone has anything they believe might be useful or
helpful, please don't hesitate to contact me - we're open to anything.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 01:15:24 -0400
From: "Martin Grams, Jr." <mmargrajr@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Have Gun - Will Travel
Sorry about the delay - I've been off e-mail for almost a whole week and
catching up to the OTR issues, I'm only now replying to the Have Gun/Gene
Roddenberry debate. Charlie Summers is correct. Roddenberry never wrote
for the radio series of Have Gun. The television series was already on its
second season when the radio series premiered, and Norm Macdonnell wanted to
do a radio version. It was cost effective because they intended to take the
TV scripts and make them into radio dramas. After the initial telecast, the
script and story became property of CBS, so there was no royalties paid to
any of the writers whose scripts were adapted for the radio version.
John Dehner was one of only three people initially chosen to play Paladin.
Vic Perrin and Harry Bartell were the other two, and voice tests were made
to decide who would play the role. (The voice tests exist - contact Ted
Davenport or Gary Kramer for a copy.) The tests featured a scene from the
episode "Ella West". Dehner was chosen and the first episode acted and
recorded was "Ella West," a Roddenberry script. Only four of Roddenberry's
TV scripts were adapted for the radio version. Check out the info below:
EPISODE #1 ėSTRANGE VENDETTAî Broadcast on November 23, 1958
Recorded on November 21, 1958, 12:00 [removed] to 12:24 [removed]
EPISODE #2 ėROAD TO WICKENBURGî Broadcast on November 30, 1958
Recorded on November 30, 1958, 2:30 to 3:00 [removed]
Based on the teleplay ėThe Road to Wickenburgî by Gene Roddenberry, and
adapted for radio by John Dawson.
EPISODE #3 ėELLA WESTî Broadcast on December 7, 1958
Recorded on November 15, 1958, 8:00 to 8:25 [removed]
Based on the teleplay by Gene Roddenberry, adapted for radio by John Dawson.
EPISODE #5 ėTHE HANGING CROSSî Broadcast on December 21, 1958
Recorded on December 13, 1958, 6:30 to 7:00 [removed]
Based on the teleplay by Gene Roddenberry, adapted for radio by John Dawson.
EPISODE #7 ėHELEN OF ABAJINIANî Broadcast on January 4, 1959
Recorded on December 27, 1958, 6:30 to 7 [removed]
Based on the teleplay by Gene Roddenberry, adapted for radio by John Dawson.
As you can see, John Dawson was the man who scripted the Roddenberry
teleplays. Macdonnell was handed a stack of scripts to choose from, and
writers were assigned (and/or) chose the scripts they wanted to do.
If memory serves me correctly, there is an episode or two of the above that
the announcer billed Gene Roddenberry as the author, during the closing
credits, and did not mention John Dawson's name, which is why over the
years, people have assumed that Roddenberry wrote the radio scripts.
A couple last curios about the radio series:
Note how the premiere episode was recorded two days before broadcast, but
"Ella West," episode #3, was recorded about two weeks earlier!!
(That's why I included the premiere episode listing above, even though that
wasn't based on a Roddenberry script.) Also note that episode number two
was recorded the same day it was broadcast!! It seems after the first few
weeks, the recording sessions for the radio episodes were about a week or
two before broadcast. But the first few productions were certainly rushed
into production (especially since the voice tests are dated days before the
premiere). I've always assumed that they had "Ella West" on the sidelines
just in case the first few were not ready by airtime.
EPISODE #17 ėDEATH OF A YOUNG GUNFIGHTERî Broadcast on March 15, 1959
and was recorded on February 22, 1959, 6:30 to 7 [removed] Macdonnell didn't jst
have access to television scripts that were months old. This same script
was broadcast on CBS-TV the night before the radio version aired!
Info reprinted selectively from the book, THE HAVE GUN - WILL TRAVEL
COMPANION, and various info about Roddenberry's non-radio work was confirmed
by Majel Barrett, his wife and widow.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 01:15:22 -0400
From: "A. Joseph Ross" <lawyer@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Gracie Mansion
I've been wondering why the Mayor's residence in New York City is
named after Gracie Allen. <g>
A. Joseph Ross, [removed] [removed]
15 Court Square, Suite 210 lawyer@[removed]
Boston, MA 02108-2503 [removed]
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 01:15:20 -0400
From: "A. Joseph Ross" <lawyer@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: OTR Sponsors
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 11:14:36 -0400
From: "jstokes" <jstokes@[removed];
Does anyone know if the following products advertised on OTR are still
around? ...
Kellogg's "Pep" cereal,
I suspect it was replaced by "Special K." At least I think that Special K
appeared around the time I last saw Kellogg's Pep. I think someone
around here had the history of Kellogg's Pep a couple of years back.
A. Joseph Ross, [removed] [removed]
15 Court Square, Suite 210 lawyer@[removed]
Boston, MA 02108-2503 [removed]
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 11:25:54 -0400
From: vigor16@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Whatever happened [removed]
Friends:
I am curious about whatever happened to a wonderful female actress that
captured my attention years ago as she played teen-agers so well. Her
talent for dramatics was so good. Is she still with us. If so, I would
to know if one has a way to let her know that her talents were always
appreciated by a child, young and and older adult. Every time I listen
to the the wonderful enthusiastic excited voice of Janet Waldo, it
reminds me that some talent started young. My first memories of her, as
a babyboomer, was as Emmylu up the street from Ozzie Nelson. She had
such a lively personality as that chatterly young girl. I found her
roles to be the kind that you don't forget. I was told that she played
in a radio show as the lead. Somebody said it was something like Corlis
Archer or Date with Judy. Is this true? (for fans only) was her role
in it as good as some of her regular parts on O&H and other shows? While
on the topic, I'd like to list 5 of my favorite female character
actresses. What are yours?
1. Janet Waldo
2. Bea Benadaret
3. Marion Jordon
4. Barbara Luddy
5. Gracie Allen
Thanks, Deric vigor16@[removed]
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 11:25:51 -0400
From: "Art Shifrin" <goldens2@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: some nice early ET's for sale
Hi Gang,
Alan Cooperman is offering some unusually nice and early ET's in this
current auction. These include a few Western Electric (brick red) items
with complete programs, commericals included. Given the economic climate,
selling refrigerators in '34 must have been some challenge, but at least one
company tried it in the syndies!
E mail him at alcoop@[removed] for the list.
There are also unusally early (late 20s) Downbeats with articles about radio
shows & personalities, business aspects, et. al. Also available are quite a
number of very desireable 78s. (in terms of content and nice condition)
Best,
Shiffy
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 13:47:23 -0400
From: Bhob <bhob2@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: OTR Sponsors
Does anyone know if the following products advertised on OTR are still
around?
Products from the Past (and Present):
The Brown Shoe Company has been in existence for 120 years. Displaying a
new logo, BUSTER BROWN shoes are now in their 97th year. Brown's new
"Pair to Remember" ad campaign of kids with dogs, launched last year,
has been featured in the pages of PEOPLE, FAMILY CIRCLE and other
magazines: [removed]
Photo of Smilin' Ed McConnell on Brown Shoe Company's history page:
[removed]
BUSTER BROWN's grave (Hornersville, Missouri):
[removed]
HOMETOWN FAVORITES is a company selling once-familiar but now scarce and
hard-to-find food products with limited distribution:
[removed]
IPANA TOOTHPASTE, acquired by Procter & Gamble, is now a popular
toothpaste in Turkey:
[removed]
IPANA's ipecac formula:
[removed]
Hear the 1929 recording of "I'll Get By" with Bing Crosby and the IPANA
TROUBADOURS: [removed]
Current KELLOGG'S products:
[removed]
KELLOGG'S PEP and other discontinued Kellogg's products:
[removed]
ORIGINAL WILDROOT CREAM OIL is made by Fort Lauderdale's Stephan
Company, a firm which has manufactured personal-care products for more
than 100 years: [removed]
PETRI and ROMA WINES: In this 1999 interview, Ernest Gallo says Petri
and Roma went out of existence because "we made better wine":
[removed]
SAL HEPATICA trademark discontinued:
[removed]
... but Miller's Rexall Drugs (Atlanta), the inspiration for Paul
McCartney's RUN DEVIL RUN album, sells "Old Fashioned Medicines,"
including one listed as "Bubbling Salts (Sal Hepatica)":
[removed]
SAL HEPATICA, IPANA and TRUSHAY were Bristol-Myers products. Sal
Hepatica, which began in 1897, was made in Bristol-Myers' Hillside, New
Jersey, plant on Route 22:
[removed]
WHIZ BAR is on the California Candy Company's "Discontinued Candy" list:
[removed]*jitUser=362484236*
Wonder if the anncr ever cracked up over this silly name for a candy
bar. I mean, there is another reference to "whiz" that we males use to
signify urination.
In the Forties, "whiz" more often brought Captain Marvel to mind because
of Fawcett's WHIZ COMICS (1940), a title inspired by CAPTAIN BILLY'S
WHIZ BANG (1919) -- which referenced a WWI artillery shell:
[removed]
[removed]
[removed]
The Beich Company, which made WHIZ ("The Best Candy There Is"), became a
division of Nestle: [removed]
-------------
Bhob @ Fusebox @ [removed]
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 13:47:25 -0400
From: "David H. Buswell" <dbuswell@[removed];
To: "OTR" <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: Early Radio Schedule
I was born on June 25, 1934. Recently I came upon an "outstanding radio
programs" schedule for that date and year and thought I'd pass it on. The
stations listed are, I believe, all NYC stations.
10:45 - 11:15 am WABC Field Memorial Mass at Convention of Knights of
St. John, Syracuse
11:00 - 12:00 pm WEAF [removed] Navy Band Concert (Repeat on WMCA, 8:30 pm)
1:15 - 1:45 pm WEAF Mayor LaGuardia and Controller McGoldrick,
Speaking at Citizens' Commission
Luncheon, Hotel Astor
3:00 - 3:30 pm WEAF Mark Sullivan, Political Writer. Speaking at
Torary Convention, Detroit
8:30 - 9:00 pm WEAF Gladys Swarthout. Soprano; Concert Orchestra
9:00 - 9:30 pm WABC Rosa Ponselle, Soprano; Concert Orchestra
9:30 - 10:30 pm WMCA World Championship Wrestling Match, Brown vs Landos
at Madison Square
Garden Bowl
10:30 - 11:00 pm WEAF Homer S. Cummings, [removed] Attorney General, Speaking
at Federal Bar Association
Dinner, Washington, [removed]
10:45 - 11:00 pm WJZ "Legislation Compared With Platform
Declarations," Senator Joseph T. Robinson of Arkansas
10:45 - 11:00 pm WABC "First Choose a Career," James W. Gerard and
August Heckscher
Dave
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 19:13:46 -0400
From: otrbuff@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Inner Sanctum tapes
D. Bacca inquires if tapes of the legendary Inner Sanctum are available.
They must be; I own quite a few of the 137 that Hickerson claims are in
circulation. Swartz & Reinehr confirm at least 101 in circulation. Yes,
I think many of us surely must have copies of that much heralded series
which, I'm assuming, is fairly easy to order from most OTR dealers.
Jim Cox
--------------------------------
End of [removed] Digest V2001 Issue #268
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