Subject: [removed] Digest V2001 #355
From: "OldRadio Mailing Lists" <[removed]@[removed];
Date: 11/6/2001 7:34 AM
To: <[removed]@[removed];

------------------------------


                            The Old-Time Radio Digest!
                              Volume 2001 : Issue 355
                         A Part of the [removed]!
                                 ISSN: 1533-9289


                                 Today's Topics:

  Radio/tv signals in the universe?     [ Jerry Lewine <radiojer@[removed] ]
  National Broadcast Hall of Fame       [ dougdouglass@[removed] ]
  Mp3 vs tape                           [ Al Girard <agirard@[removed] ]
  Re: Christmas Shows                   [ Fred Berney <berney@[removed]; ]
  Re: Disney and A&A                    [ Elizabeth McLeod <lizmcl@[removed] ]
  Sorry For The Long Wait!              [ "stephenjansen" <stephenjansen@emai ]
  MP3 player                            [ "Scott business" <[removed]@worldne ]
  re: BBC Goon Show                     [ Ed Foster <erfoster@[removed]; ]
  Best Sound?                           [ "Stephen A Kallis, Jr." <skallisjr@ ]
  Re: MP3 quality                       [ Bob Noble <bobnoble@[removed]; ]
  McGee's Radio and Felt Pads           [ KENPILETIC@[removed] ]
  Anticipation of TV on OTR             [ "Mark Kinsler" <kinsler33@[removed] ]
  better than the original!             [ "Mark Kinsler" <kinsler33@[removed] ]
  sound quality, to who's ears??        [ Peter Appleyard <pappleyard_ca@yaho ]
  AFRS re-broadcasts                    [ "Greg Przywara" <orsonwelles3@home. ]
  For Robert Fells (and Anybody Else)   [ GEORGE WAGNER <gwagneroldtimeradio@ ]
  Re: Goon Show                         [ Michael Biel <mbiel@[removed]; ]
  Hollywood Theatre Group programs      [ "B. J. Watkins" <kinseyfan@hotmail. ]
  audio book                            [ "Walden Hughes" <hughes1@[removed]; ]
  An actor named Cowian                 [ "Christian Blees" <christian-blees@ ]

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 17:36:17 -0500
From: Jerry Lewine <radiojer@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Radio/tv signals in the universe?

I seem to recall that some years ago there were reports or claims that
signals had been picked up of programs that were from years past that were
still moving in the universe and it may be that signals never stop traveling.
Does anyone have any info or theories about this or heard of such?

I recall reading some time ago that a television test pattern was received
years after that station had, I believe, changed call letters.  It was, of
course, a hoax.

While it is true that signals which make it into space will never truly
die, they will decrease with the "square of the distance" and after
travelling not too far a distance (or time, if you want to think of it in
those terms), it will be so weak as if it never existed.  Also consider the
fact that out in space a given signel will be interfered with every other
signal which had ever transmitted on that frequency.

I would like to think that my voice is still out there going through the
universe from the first time I spoke into a microphone about 40 years ago.
We could calculate that 1000 watt station's signal strenth after travelling
some 40 light years quite easily if we made some simple assumptions - but
rest assured the number would be so miniscule as to be unrelatable.

Jerry Lewine, Chief Engineer (retired)
KHJ, Los Angeles

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 18:25:26 -0500
From: dougdouglass@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: National Broadcast Hall of Fame

The National Broadcasters Hall of Fame has moved from California to New
Jersey. Marconi's Belmar Wireless Station Manager's residence will
display a portion of the NBHF collection. This building will also serve
as the NBHF revitalization lab.  Most of the collection is on
reel-to-reel. Plans are to copy the audio to MP3 format accessible from
web pages. The web pages will also provide  a richer display of content
for each Hall of Fame member.  Currently on the site is a photo display
of the Marconi's station during the 1912-1926 wireless period.  In
September 2002, they plan to display radios and collectibles in a larger
room. To view the manager's residence, go to
[removed].
They can be reached at 732-280-3000.
---Doug

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 18:53:01 -0500
From: Al Girard <agirard@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Mp3 vs tape

	There have been valid points made on both sides of
the tape versus mp3 argument.  I personally have more than
800 reels of tape and for the most part they seem to have
survived quite well.  I have on occasion, however, found
tapes that squeal badly and are in need of the convection
oven cure.

	I've been collecting shows that have been encoded
as mp3 files, and for the most part what I've listened to
are of quite good sound quality.  It would appear though
that some people have been encoding shows without even
listening to them, or perhaps not even caring.

	I find examples of this on the news groups where
people are posting material that is mis-named, mis-dated
or just plain mis-encoded.  Folks are downloading this
stuff and adding to their collections in a "feeding frenzy"
of trying to get everything that is available for their
collections.

	I downloaded a show that was so poorly done that
I made a small one-minute file.  It's a before and after
example of what was uploaded to Usenet, and what could
have been done had the person who did the encoding taken
the time and attention that was necessary during the
process.

	If you would like to hear it, the file is at
[removed]

Al Girard

Visit my Unofficial Fibber McGee and Molly home Page
[removed]

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 19:15:52 -0500
From: Fred Berney <berney@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Re: Christmas Shows

At 09:28 AM 11/5/01 -0500, you wrote:

Aldrich Family
Fred Allen
Bergen & McCarthy
and any adaption of A Christmas Carol

Thanks to anyone that can [removed] We'll make a trade of it.

I have at least two of the four. Aldrich Family and Christmas Carol. I'll
have to check my Fred Allen tapes and Bergen & McCarthy tapes.

Fred
For the best in Old Time Radio Shows [removed]
New e-commerce page [removed]

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 19:17:36 -0500
From: Elizabeth McLeod <lizmcl@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: Re: Disney and A&A

Bob Fells notes,

Of note to
OTR fans is the appearance of Amos and Andy; in fact, "Amos" is
introduced as Freeman Gosden but he goes right into character calling
"Andy" over to the microphone.  Then they introduce their children who
say a few words.  One child is named Virginia.  I wondered if this is
some sort of "rediscovered "A'n'A" broadcast?   (I can bet on reply from
Elizabeth).

Well, now I see I'm finally going to break down and get a DVD machine.
I've been working lately on tracking down and documenting various A&A
guest shots, and this is one I didn't yet have on my list. Thanks much
for pointing it out! The two oldest Gosden kids, Freeman Junior (then 8)
and Virginia (then 7) were indeed on hand with their dad for that show.

Correll and Gosden attended the premiere not just for their own
entertainment but because their sponsor, the Pepsodent Company, would
soon be bringing the Disney characters to the air for their first regular
series, the Mickey Mouse Theatre of the Air. Earlier in 1937, Correll and
Gosden and Pepsodent had mutually agreed to go their separate ways at the
expiration of their last contract -- the program was simply getting too
expensive for Pepsodent to continue -- and the performers had already
signed a new three-year $1,000,000 deal with the Campbell Soup Company
which would take effect 1/1/38.

This was quite a significant development in the broadcasting world -- at
the time, A&A's relationship with Pepsodent was the longest-running
contract on radio, and the company wanted to ensure a smooth transition
between the shows. So it was that Correll and Gosden were deliberately
conspicuous at the "Snow White" premiere -- and when they made their
final broadcast for Pepsodent on 12/31/37, Walt Disney appeared with them
for sort of a ceremonial passing-of-the-torch. Then, when the "Mickey
Mouse Theatre of the Air" made its debut the following week, Correll and
Gosden were very prominently seated in the front row of the studio
audience.

Walt Disney had already made one previous appearance on A&A. During the
summer of 1936, Amos, Andy, the Kingfish, and Lightning took a road trip
to Hollywood, where the Kingfish had been assigned by the Harlem
newspaper where he worked as gossip columnist "Leroy LeRoy" to visit
movie studios and interview celebrities. During this trip, Andy became
overwhelmed by all the Hollywood glamour and had a bad dream about
visiting the Disney studio for a tour from Walt -- only to discover in
the dream that Donald Duck was real, and was a very hostile and
unpleasant individual with whom to deal. (Clarence "Ducky" Nash was also
heard during this episode.)

Correll and Gosden had further interaction with Disney in the late
forties, when "Song of the South" was being made. It was partly on the
strength of James Baskett's work as Gabby Gibson on the A&A sitcom that
he was cast as Uncle Remus/Br'er Fox in that film, and when the Motion
Picture Academy ignored Baskett in the Oscar nominations the following
year, Correll and Gosden -- knowing that Baskett was suffering from a
severe form of heart disease and didn't have long to live -- joined with
Disney to campaign for a special Academy Award on his behalf. Their
campaign was successful, and Baskett received the award just a few months
before his death at the age of 44.

Elizabeth

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 19:18:02 -0500
From: "stephenjansen" <stephenjansen@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: Sorry For The Long Wait!

Someone had contacted me via this list about getting my listing of mp3
four-letter prefixes, which would aid in their titling/listing/cataloguing
of mp3's.  So sorry for my long wait - my computer was down and out!  Now
it's up again, but I don't have your email address to send you the info!
Please contact me at stephenjansen@[removed] again, and I will send you the
list.  Again, sorry for the wait.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 19:32:50 -0500
From: "Scott business" <[removed]@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: MP3 player

I am still using the Rio 500. In fact when they went off the market I bought
two extra ones so that I have three. I love the Rio 500 because it has a
bookmark capability which is a must for OTR and audio book lovers like me. I
have yet to find an OTR program that I can't play on my 500. I have loaded
everything from 16 bit to 128 bit and have never had a problem. I think you
might still be able to find one on one of the auction sites (Amazon or Ebay)
if you want to pick one up.
Scott

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 19:33:23 -0500
From: Ed Foster <erfoster@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: re: BBC Goon Show

George Archer (garcher@[removed]) wrote

Where would I find on air copies of The Goon Show that the BBC produced in
the 1950's and were replayed here in the DC area (WETA) on Sundays in the
1960's?

Start with [removed] then go to
[removed] and
[removed].  Finally, hang around the
[removed] and [removed]
newsgroups.

Ed Foster
erfoster@[removed]

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 19:34:10 -0500
From: "Stephen A Kallis, Jr." <skallisjr@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Best Sound?

In commenting on Michael Biel's observation that a copy can be no better
than its source, Shawn Wells notes,

I have taken shows that were no "up to snuff" in my opinion and went to
great lengths to restore and in alot of cases completely re-mix a show
that ends up better than the original source.

Who's right?

Both folk are, depending upon what one means by "better."  If by "better"
one means "sounding as originally broadcast," or even "sounding just like
it was performed in the studio," then Dr. Biel is more probably correct.
If one means "sounding as realistic [or other positive adjective] as
possible," then Mr. Wells is correct.

To give an example of what I mean, in the 1940 Jack Armstrong Sulu Sea
sequence, there was one point in the story where Jack's party (well,
really Jim Fairfield's, but ...) were using horses, and the sound effect
of horses whinnying was created vocally, and not at all well.  Very
unconvincing, and the first time I heard it, it was a jolt.  Now assume
that someone wanted to tweak the recording of that episode.  Mightn't the
editor consider replacing those whinnies with a recording of real horses?

Assume he or she did.  The new recording would sound more realistic than
the original broadcast ("better" in presentation) but different from the
original ("not better" in fidelity to what was aired).

This brings us to an interesting philosophical point: do we want the
"best possible sound," or the "best reproduction" of what was aired?

I won't provide my thoughts yet, but open the idea for discussion.

Stephen A. Kallis, Jr.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 20:34:26 -0500
From: Bob Noble <bobnoble@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Re: MP3 quality

Re MP3 quality, I, too, have noticed that some of the OTR shows on my
MP3 disks are of disappointing quality, and yet I don't blame the
digital medium. MP3s are capable of exceptional quality (just listen to
some of the pop music you can find on them) and the weakest link here
MUST be the quality of the original material recorded onto the CDs.

I recently acquired the close-to complete set of the CBS Radio Mystery
Theater on MP3, thinking I could fill in any shows I may have missed
when I was recording them off the air myself. I was quite disappointed
in the recording quality and the editing done by the person who made the
original tapes. Since this was a program which ran in the '70s and '80s,
there is much less reason to have marginal quality, as compared with
programs grabbed off of acetate disks from the '30s and '40s. The Amos
'n' Andy MP3s, I have, for example, have so much hiss and surface noise
that in some cases it's louder than the program itself. And yet my
"Johnny Dollar" MP3s and some of the "Suspense" ones are of exceptional
quality.

The weakest link here must be in the recorded quality of the original
material.

-bn

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 21:02:37 -0500
From: KENPILETIC@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: McGee's Radio and Felt Pads

Hi Gang -                           November 5, 2001 - Monday - 7:43 PM cst

There were a couple of postings in issue 353 about which I would like
to comment.

  Item One --  Jer51473 wrote:

I seem to recall that some years ago there were reports or claims that
signals had been picked up of programs that were from years past that were
still moving in the universe and it may be that signals never stop
traveling.
Does anyone have any info or theories about this or heard of such?

Yes, Jim Jordan did - many years ago.  There was a FIBBER MCGEE
AND MOLLY episode in which McGee found an old radio in the attic
and tuned in "old" programs using the same principle that Jerry mentioned.
This program was broadcast in the 1950's, and the "old" programs were
from the 1920s and 1930's.   Sorry, I don't remember the date of the
brodcast, but it's out there circulating.  It is NOT the "Cardable Radio"
program.  It has been years since I re-heard it.   I heard the original, too.
It's a good program.  If I find out the episode name and date I'll post it.

But seriously, Folks, there is no reason to doubt the theory.
Unfortunately, the signals are probably far from Earth by now, and
would be extremely weak.  All other things being equal, Signal Strength
is inversely proportional to the SQUARE of the distance.
(twice as far = 4 times weaker) (three times as far = 9 times weaker)

                       -----------------------------------------------------

    Item Two --  Bryan Powell wrote:

 ... magnetic tapes losing its content ... "MRX3 oxide," ...
 ... Within a few years those tapes were virtually blank. Amazing.
     I've never had any experience like it ... TDK and Maxell cassettes
     from that era that sound as good, or almost as good, as ever.

I suspect it may not be the oxide.   If you still have those cassettes,
look to see if the little felt pressure pad is still present.  The glue on
some cassettes was better than others.  A common problem was
the pressure pad falling off thus preventing proper tape contact with
the head.  A piece of felt can be re-glued  with "Elmer's Carpenter's
Wood Glue" if the original is missing.

Happy Taping -- Ken Piletic - Streamwood, Illinois
kenpiletic@[removed]

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 22:04:03 -0500
From: "Mark Kinsler" <kinsler33@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Anticipation of TV on OTR

Seems to me that I recall a certain amount of discussion of television on
various OTR programs: how we'll have TV after the war, how radio personality
so-and-so would look on TV (generally an uncomplementary comment), and how
we'd been promised TV since 1939 and it isn't here yet.  I don't have any
specifics, but it's difficult to imagine that the more self-referential
people--George and Gracie, Arthur Godfrey, Fibber McGee--would _not_ have
mentioned the long-anticipated Wonder of the Age, and probably had a good
laugh over it.

M Kinsler
512 E Mulberry St. Lancaster, Ohio USA 740 687 6368
[removed]~kinsler

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 22:05:12 -0500
From: "Mark Kinsler" <kinsler33@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: better than the original!

Can an audio or video reproduction be better than the original?  I was
afraid that this question might come up someday.  It usually means war.

Archivists and historians generally are not enthusiastic about technical
jiggering of reproductions: keep the clicks and pops and distortions,
because they're part of the medium, they'd say.

Nonsense, say the technicians.  We can make an accurate digital copy of the
original and run statistical routine X and autocorrelation procedure Y on it
to remove everything but the original audio.  We have figured out just what
the noise pulse from an embedded dust particle sounds like and can thus
recognize and delete these from the reproduction.  We know just what sorts
of distortions resulted from worn phonograph needles and noisy audio lines,
and we can compensate for these.  Therefore our reproduction can indeed be
better than the original.

But, says the archivist, you told us the same thing thirty years ago when
you only had analog methods of noise reduction.  A lot of the "noise" you
eliminated back then was the part of the waveform that made Rochester sound
like Rochester and not Dennis Day.  How do we know that your highfalutin
autocorrelation encoding scheme isn't going to destroy the nuances of Buck
Rogers' rocket exhaust?

But our reproductions do indeed sound better, says the technician.  You can
hear the audience laugh, you can hear what's being said, you can hear the
echoes in the studio.  How much better do you want it to be?

I want _everything_ says the archivist.  That's what archiving is all about.
  In the end, the quality of your reproduction, improved though it might be,
is dependent upon your own judgement of what's good and what isn't.  We
archivists don't wish to have to make that judgement: we preserve what
remains.

And so goes the conversation, back and forth.  Both sides, of course, are
right: the archivist must have his original, if for no other reason than the
hope that an even *better* system of reproduction might come along in ten or
twenty years.  And the technician is doing a marvelous service by rendering
the recordings listenable and enjoyable, thus providing the general
enthusism that supports the archivist's work.

Mark Kinsler
512 E Mulberry St. Lancaster, Ohio USA 740 687 6368
[removed]~kinsler

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 06:33:03 -0500
From: Peter Appleyard <pappleyard_ca@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: sound quality, to who's ears??

Perhaps this will let the cat out of the bag as to my
age but what is the matter with the sound of these MP3
CD's ?? Have all of you folks that are complaining
that the sound is not crystal clear ever heard an
original broadcast just the way it sounded to us back
in the 30's, 40's and yes even into the 50's ?? Have
you never put a crystal set under the blanket with a
wire attached to the metal frame of your bed and moved
a cats wisker around until you find a spot where the
music starts to play or a spooky voice starts to laugh
and scares you half to death ?? Those were the days
when the quality of sound really didnt matter, it was
just so exciting that you could actually hear those
actors and actresses acting their hearts out to
entertain us that mattered. What has happened to the
romance of being in love with the absolutly greatest
discovery in the [removed] RADIO.
I had better stop, but before I do I would like to
take this moment to say thankyou to all you actors and
actresses that are still hanging in there for all
those noisy broadcasts that came over our crystal sets
and radio's, those were the greatest times of my life
and let me say the greatest [removed] sound may
be nice but that is not the way the originals were
heard and thank God everything today isn't perfect.
Now thats just an old man talking, thankyou for giving
me a chance to say how I [removed] man Peter



Build your own website for free and in minutes at [removed]

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 06:33:16 -0500
From: "Greg Przywara" <orsonwelles3@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: AFRS re-broadcasts

I'm wondering if some or all of the AFRS re-broadcasts are missing more than
just the commercials. For example, I have some Lux Theatre AFRS programs
that clock in at 48 minutes or less. The original network versions of these
were about 60 minutes. I find it hard to believe that the network versions
of these shows actually had 12 or more minutes of commercials and opening
and closing commentary. Can anyone help me out on this one?
Greg

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 09:29:37 -0500
From: GEORGE WAGNER <gwagneroldtimeradio@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: For Robert Fells (and Anybody Else)

     Mr. Fells, I agree with you regarding the
superiority of truly "live" radio over the majority of
hyper-homogenized "transcribed" stuff.
     My favorite example of this comes from a 1938
Larry Clinton remote - when Clinton's always-excellent
dance orchestra is at the height of its considerable
power.
     The announcer promises one tune, but the band
plays quite another.
     After the selection plays out, the announcer
apologizes to Clinton for his flub.
     Suddenly there's a stumbling or crashing noise
just off mike.
     "Oh, that's all perfectly okay," answers Clinton.
"After all, I just fell off the bandstand."

     Give me LIVE radio any time over "canned."
     Give me Clinton any time.
     That's Larry, not Bill.

     George Wagner
     GWAGNEROLDTIMERADIO@[removed]

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 09:30:17 -0500
From: Michael Biel <mbiel@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Re:  Goon Show

From: "Doug Leary" <dleary@[removed];
I currently have over 40 Goon Shows in mp3 format, collected
entirely from file sharing systems such as Napster and Kazaa.
Half-hour episodes, ... generally excellent audio.  doug@[removed]

Of course, if you want to hear what the programs REALLY sound like in
remarkably sparkling crisp and clean true high-fidelity, you can obtain
the legal original CD sets that are published by the BBC.  They have
recently issued the 19th volume.  At four programs to a volume, that
should be now 76 programs that have been restored to as close to their
original lengths and sound quality as possible by comparing what
original masters are at the BBC and adding back in the out-takes and
parts that were edited out of The Transcription Service versions, etc.
Plus the 1972 "Last Goon Show of Them All" which is available on both
audio and video.

Of course you have to pay for these legal versions.  Heaven forbid
someone suggest doing something the legal way, or suggest going to a
high quality original source. :-)

Michael Biel  mbiel@[removed]

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 09:30:27 -0500
From: "B. J. Watkins" <kinseyfan@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Hollywood Theatre Group programs

Lois Culver wrote:

Don Fisher asks about some shows he has, titled "Hollywood Theatre >Group"
that stars Howard Culver, which aired some time in the 30's.

Hollywood Theatre Group was a showcase which did weekly transcribed >dramas
over Hollywood Station KMTR in late 1939 or thereabouts.

I'm surprised that copies of this exist!

They do because of the generosity of your husband Howard. He donated about
four of those programs, along with other shows he did, to SPERDVAC back
around 1980. Thanks to him, we all can enjoy those shows!

I still remember the thrill of meeting STRAIGHT ARROW himself when he came
to speak to SPERDVAC in 1980. He was a kind, friendly man. And we miss him.

Barbara

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 09:30:54 -0500
From: "Walden Hughes" <hughes1@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: audio book

Does any one know of an audio book company that would consider OTR as a
subject?  I am trying to help out one of our OTR personality who would like
to find  a company that would host his book  on OTR.  .  Take care,

Walden

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 09:31:09 -0500
From: "Christian Blees" <christian-blees@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: An actor named Cowian

Hi all,

I'm doing a research on the 1953/54 radio series "A time for love"
starring Marlene Dietrich and found the information that Robert Readick
in his role as Mike Viktor (Marlene's partner) had been replaced by an
actor named Mr. Cowian in November, 1953.
Is there anybody who knows why Robert Readick had been replaced and/or
who this Mr. Cowian was?

Any help will be appreciated!
Thank you,

Christian

--------------------------------
End of [removed] Digest V2001 Issue #355
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