Subject: [removed] Digest V2002 #313
From: "OldRadio Mailing Lists" <[removed]@[removed];
Date: 8/12/2002 12:38 PM
To: <[removed]@[removed];

------------------------------


                            The Old-Time Radio Digest!
                              Volume 2002 : Issue 313
                         A Part of the [removed]!
                                 ISSN: 1533-9289


                                 Today's Topics:

  Bob Bailey                            [ Mike Ray <MRay@[removed]; ]
  Re:Gildersleeve Stalks THE SHADOW     [ SanctumOTR@[removed] ]
  Transfer from old 78s                 [ Bill Young <byoung@[removed]; ]
  Hope, Crosby, Godfrey, Allen, etc.    [ Jer51473@[removed] ]
  Arthur Godfrey bad record aired       [ leemunsick@[removed] ]
  Beemer comments in "Reality vs. Fant  [ "John DiMezzes" <jadm1@[removed] ]
  Re: Brace Beemer                      [ SanctumOTR@[removed] ]
  LP to CD                              [ "George Coppen*" <gacoppen@[removed] ]
  Brace Beemer Gay????                  [ "Thomas Mason" <batz34@[removed] ]

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 11:12:50 -0400
From: Mike Ray <MRay@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  Bob Bailey
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Saturday, I had one of those very rare days where I
Was at home, all alone with a couple of spare hours
On my hands. Recently I had just acquired (after many
years of Searching) the 2 Laurel & Hardy movies,
Jitterbugs and Dancing Masters, and thought this
Would be a great time to watch them. These are the 2
Movies That Bob Bailey (Johnny Dollar) has prominent
roles in.

In Jitterbugs, Bob plays a fast talking shyster who is out
To make a fast buck on anyone. That is till he meets the
Love interest of the movie, the very pretty Vivian Blane
(State Fair, Guys & Dolls). All of the sudden Bob finds
a conscious and begins to do things to help Blane and
kind of forgets about his profession as a Shyster.

This is not an Academy Award movie, but it is great light
Fun, and shows just how very versatile Bob Bailey really
Was. The other movie (Dancing Masters) also has a romantic
Angle as Bob wins the heart of the lovely Trudy Marshall.

If you are a big Bob Bailey fan, then these movies are an
Absolute must. It's a real kick to see the master (Bob Bailey)
At work.

Check your local Blockbuster or public library. I have looked
For several years and came up empty handed until just a few
Weeks ago. They are now one of my great treasures.

Best regards,

Mike Ray

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Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 12:19:45 -0400
From: SanctumOTR@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Re:Gildersleeve Stalks THE SHADOW

In a message dated 8/12/02 10:12:59 AM, John Mayer writes:

Dr. Nightmare for Water Commissioner? Another case of hearing an OTR
voice in an unexpected setting: I refer to the Shadow episode of 19
November 1944, "The Man Who Dreamed Too Much." <<SNIP>> But, more to point,
the my villainous Dr. Nightmare sounds to my earsvery much like The Great
Gildersleeve.

***The episode was indeed a recreation, directed by yours truly at the 1986
SPERDVAC OTR convention.  The announcer sounded authentic because he was the
late, great Andre Baruch who announced/narrated THE SHADOW for a couple
seasons in the late 1940s.  The over-the-top Dr. Nightmare was not a
Gildersleeve but was a Thin Man: Les Tremayne (who co-starred with Barbara
Luddy in the FIRST NIGHTER dramas and later starred as Nick Charles, The
Falcon, Mr. Abbott on ABBOTT MYSTERIES, etc.  I was more pleased with that
particular recreation cast than any other, since every member of the cast was
a veteran of original  SHADOW series and all the recurring roles were played
by performers who had starred in those roles for at least a season on MBS:
John Archer starred as THE SHADOW, Lesley Woods as Margot and Dwight Weist as
Commissioner Weston.  Bill Zuckert played the victim (and doubled as John
Barclay), Amzie Strickland (who appeared in 50 SHADOW broadcasts and briefly
filled in as Margot Lane) played his wife, and the wonderful Alice Frost
played another of the macabre roles she recalled as "the crazy ladies."  The
single non-Shadow performer was the overworked sound effects artist, Ray
Erlenborn, who had to do the work normally performed by two soundmen on the
actual MBS series as well as double as Blinky the dog.  The cast members were
all identified at the end of the show, in the portion that was cut off in
your recording.  There was also a comedic opening that I prepared (and lister
Barbara Watkins typed up) that allowed the performers to introduce themselves
and perform brief snippets of their most famous roles ([removed] Dwight Weist,
radio's first MR. DISTRICT ATTORNEY, got to perform that famous opening while
Andre was able top make an additional pitch for Blue Coal.  Sorry you missed
out on those portions.  By the way, the script was written by the Hugo
Award-winning science-fiction novelist Alfred Bester, while SHADOW-organist
Rosa Rio personally recorded the musical bridges for that recreation.
--ANTHONY TOLLIN

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 12:20:01 -0400
From: Bill Young <byoung@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Transfer from old 78s

The recent discussions of Les Paul/Mary Ford got me to thinking about some
78s we got with an old Victrola we bought in kansas a number of years ago.  A
few are Les Paul/Mary Ford, and there are many others.  I would love to
capture these recording in a form I could listen to and enjoy without the
risk of damage to the originals.  Does anyone have any suggestions of how to
go about doing this?  My turntable doesn't have a 78 speed, and I don't even
know if that would work if it did.

Thanks for any help, and though I guess this is slightly off topic, I hope
the expertise in archiving old radio transcriptions may provide some insight
into how to save these recordings.

-- BY

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 12:26:28 -0400
From: Jer51473@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Hope, Crosby, Godfrey, Allen, etc.

 The list could go on and on, but what is accomplished by sounding off about
the negatives of these entertainers as seen through the eyes of any one
person? Unless, of course, there is documentation of the proof of ones
accusations or statements. I for one am not interested in hearing anyones
opinion of the "bad character" of anyone. What one person considers rude
behavior may be looked at differently by another. You had to have "been
there" to make a true determination of the right or wrong of ones behavior.
If you were there then make your judgement, but dont think its your job to
form public opinion based on your perception. I know from life that there are
two sides to every story and when i hear only one or this "he said she said"
stuff, i take it with a grain of salt. Hey, some people are just biased
against others for whatever the reasons and will make every negative twice
the size it should be. The entertainers i mentioned above, as most people,
have many, many more positive charateristics than negative, however, it seems
to be a fact of life that negatives are the most interesting from a news or
attention standpoint. Unless there is documentation, as far as i am concerned
the info is heresay, madeup, or whatever. The accused should be given the
benefit of the doubt. Many of these "charges" are to get recognition, sell
copies, or grind axes. The people spreading these truths or untruths do
indeed have the right to publicly state these opinions or unproven facts, but
their motives and own character may come under suspicion to the objective
observer.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 12:37:47 -0400
From: leemunsick@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Arthur Godfrey bad record aired

I'd like to reply to George, who told of hearing on the air, a recording
of Arthur Godfrey telling dirty jokes, swearing and the like.  Those
aren't George's words, but I know the recording of which he speaks, and
own a copy.  I guess that makes me a pariah too.

It seems to me that one should direct such anger at the person who made
the record available to begin with, and then medium which would play such
a recording over the air.  What's next - Moms Mabley and then Ruth Wallis?

If it's the recording I think it is, here's the story.  Mr. Godfrey was in
a production studio, recording a bunch of radio commercials.  As is often
the practice, the engineer simply let the tape recorder run while Mr.
Godfrey read the copy, coughed, hiccuped, stammered, backed up, mixed up
words, or whatever.  Each time Godfrey would clear his voice or make some
remark, and start again with remarks like, "Okay, enough of this
[removed]'s [removed] up!"    Every one of us who's been in
broadcasting knows this drill.  And we've all seen the "out-takes" items
from films and TV programs, shown on television.  One can be certain that
even those are carefully edited.

Apparently this particular dishonest, unethical engineer played some
games, indicating that he was in fact changing the recording medium.  One
hears Mr. Godfrey wasting time "between takes" singing, humming, and
telling some admittedly dirty jokes, obviously waiting until the engineer
told him to go ahead.  One may easily discern this from listening to the
recording.

Among his time-wasters was Mr. Godfrey describing incidents when he was
recuperating in the hospital from one of his serious operations.  He had a
lung removed due to cancer, and was credited by physicians with probably
saving thousands of lives by going public, and urging people to get early
detection, the best way to fight cancer.  He "fired" his sponsor
Chesterfield on the air on his Wednesday night television variety show
which they had been sponsoring, saying he could no longer ask people to
smoke.

His surgery required one heck of an opening from his chest down to his
abdomen.  Anyone who has had such surgery will tell you that for days
afterward, one has serious problems with gas, and one's abilities to get
rid of it and anything else which is backed up in one's system.  Mr.
Godfrey in very blunt terms which we all use in private, told that
recording engineer that he recalled the only thing he wanted at the time
was to get rid of that gas.  This has happened to many of us, and could to
any.  I wouldn't be surprised that many readers have later jokingly
referred to the experience in equally straightforward terms, probably in
conversing with someone else of the same gender.

When I was a kid I used to listen to Bob Hope, discussed here
recently.  Fairly often, I heard him make an off-color remark, and would
suddenly be off the air, replaced with fill music.  One such joke I did
not understand, and made a point of remembering it (to this day) so I
could ask some grown-ups what it meant (certainly not my parents).  I
would never include it here, nor would I ever repeat it on the air.  Hope
did this often, yet was a fixture on radio and then television for
decades.  I admire him for trekking all over the world for decades to
entertain our service personnel, whom I imagine got more than their share
of dirty [removed] in a very different venue.  Like George's reaction,
this turned me off Bob Hope.  I have neither watched nor listened to
since, except in Road films with Bing Crosby.

Mae West was banned from the airwaves for decades because of one silly
skit with Charlie McCarthy and Don Ameche.  I have heard it and read it,
and find it quite bland.  Hope clearly told dirty jokes and knew they were
being broadcast, yet he was not so censured.

This is quite different from the "hacked" Godfrey recording, to use
today's terminology.  Nobody said that Mr. Godfrey was an angel.  He most
certainly was not; he was a complex, very earthy man with an obvious male
sensuality, a very strong sense of patriotism, and a clear lust for life
in all its aspects.

One should know that he was a boy from the tough streets of New York City,
whose family was destitute after the death of the father.  At age 14, he
became the senior male, helping support a family of six.  He knocked all
over the eastern half of the country in one job after another.  Cab
driver, typist, ditch digger, worse.  He spent time as an enlisted man in
both the Coast Guard and the Navy.

Does this mean he routinely talked "like a drunken sailor" with his
friends and family, and just anyone with whom he came in contact
privately?   Of course not.  Mr. Godfrey was also accused during the
height of his popularity of being a drunk, because injuries from a
horrible auto collision at age 28 left him with two mangled hips and legs,
constant pain, and a strange, waddling walk.  And, incidentally, an
aversion to alcohol, which no longer could he tolerate as in his
admittedly wild, pre-accident youth.

All of this rough-and-tumble upbringing and more became part of Mr.
Godfrey's molding into one of the most accomplished entertainers,
communicators, information-sharers, and salesmen of any time, because he
knew in spades how to relate to the common folk in his vast audiences.

Very much like Abraham Lincoln, who was known to use some pretty earthy
stories himself, especially in private company.  Walls in various offices
from churches to the Oval Office have no doubt heard some pretty risqué,
PRIVATE stuff.  This is not Clifton Fadiman we're talking about, nor a
Pope.  Of course, such jokes might lose in translation to Latin.

No, we’re discussing here a lusty, robust man who came near death more
than once, determined to make every second of the rest of his life count,
and certainly succeeded remarkably in that goal, to the delight of
millions of North Americans.  And racked up a broadcasting career which
spanned a half-century.

I assume there are folk who never told a dirty [removed] used raw
[removed] shared socially unacceptable words in private with some
close friend.  But I think most of us have.  This sort of thing has become
so prevalent in public, that there's an intriguing term that has been
developed for this kind of language and situation, although I don't
understand where it came from or why:  "Blue".

Had I heard that recording or anything like it on the air, I would have
been irate also, and would have blasted the station for allowing it.  I
have done exactly so on other occasions and with other media in the
past.  I admire and listen to public radio, but one can guess which
stations I do not hear, and which I would never financially support.   And
like George's reaction, I turned off Bob Hope completely.  But these
broadcast situations are quite different from the original scene of the
recording you heard.

Some years ago, "party records" were available "under the counter" at
record stores for their known, adult customers.  Most of them were pretty
mild by today’s "standards", or lack of them.  Then we heard "blooper
records" with the likes of Bing Crosby and Al Jolson.  That recording has
been sold over and over again.  There's also one of Dean Martin and Jerry
[removed] from just such a recording session doing commercials for
one of their films.  They, too, had every right to assume that their
tension-breaking clowning around would go no further than the
studio.  Shame on that engineer, too!  Mr. Godfrey did the same clowning,
but off the air, in a situation where he had every right to assume those
words went no further than that studio.   What's so horrible about that?

I am not a prude.  I enjoy a good ribald story.  I would never use such
language on the air, and neither did Arthur Godfrey.  He did occasionally
use innuendos, but in my researches I've spoken with many listeners for
whom such lines usually went way over their heads.  Asked if they remember
any off-color remarks, they always do not, while they often recall
numerous other specific subjects and discussions.

This is unlike several of the more famous radio "shock jocks" of today,
who I think should be trundled off to the lower regions in the proverbial
hand basket.  Unfortunately the FCC, networks, stations, advertisers and
their agencies, have no such qualms.  They obviously have a very low
opinion of us out here listening, or now not listening in droves, as has
been discussed here before.  They admit to aiming at the “lowest common
denominator” among the public.  No wonder their effectiveness is waning
rapidly, as discussed here.

I would suggest that the very disgusting nature of broadcasting today is a
substantial factor in the growth of interest in OTR, with people who
simply don't want to listen to the junk and filth and wasted time that now
is broadcast openly, day after day and without regard for the time or the
audience.

May I suggest that we all should vent our spleen and whatever else, on the
engineer who dishonestly prepared and saved the recording, after he'd
carefully taken out any of his identifying voice or name in the
talk-backs.  Then go yell at those who approve the concept of allowing
such on the air.  Shame on them all.

But one should not think that out-of-context outbursts label a man, any
more than art on book covers accurately depicts the contents inside, or
old-time lobby cards truly show only scenes which are in the movie being
shown, especially those that were in full color even 'though the film was
monochrome.

Or in this case, for expecting on-the-air people not to be human off-the-air.

Lee Munsick

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 12:26:44 -0400
From: "John DiMezzes" <jadm1@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  Beemer comments in "Reality vs. Fantasy"
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Brace Beemer had at least one daughter, according to the books that I've read.
Perhaps if something is an unsubstantiated and even "gossipy" rumor (by the
tone of it, it almost sounds as if that DJ was pulling your leg once he found
out you were a Lone Ranger fan), maybe it is best not to repeat it at all.  To
make a point about "brotherhood, racial equality, patriotism,etc." by defaming
someone with only a person's opinion ---someone who worked around him "very
briefly" and, by your own admission, used an "alias" which you could not
verify--- seems to be the wrong way to do things.

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Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 12:41:22 -0400
From: SanctumOTR@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Re: Brace Beemer

In a message dated 8/12/02 10:12:59 AM, [removed]@[removed]
writes:

More years ago than i care to remember
my favorite Atlanta, Ga. Radio DJ once told me, off the air-when he found
out I was a "LR" fan-that he was, at one time-very
briefly-a member of the WXYZ reperatory company, using an alias. He told me
what it was. I later discovered nothing
to verify this, anywhere. He said he worked the "Ranger". When I asked him
about his impressions-if any-of Mr. Beemer,
he told me that he and his wife were childless but that he loved children,
especially little boys. He said that Beemer would
 bring boys to the studio with him .
It was obvious, to him, that "The Lone Ranger" was Gay  by the way he
treated them-embracing, kissing them.

***The DJ's stories do not ring true, since the Beemer's had several
children, one of whom later starred in the JUDGE COLT series.  I've never
heard any claims that Beemer was gay.  Quite the opposite, there were lots of
reports from cast members of Brace being quite a womanizer.

Personally, I wouldn't have repeated this unconfirmed information if I were
you, especially since you were unable to confirm that your acquintance really
was a member of THE LONE RANGER cast.  This (unconfirmed) story has nothing
to do with Beemer's performances, how he treated his fellow actors or his
professionalism or lack of it.

During the two decades I've been researching OTR, I've learned of many
talented radio stars and performers who were gay, including some who
maintained extremely committed lifelong partnerships that were more stable
and long-lasting than many heterosexual marraiges.  More power to them; the
world needs more love, not less.

But pedophilia, whether directed to young males or females, is a far
different matter.  I do know of one radio Western star who did have an
unhealthy fondness for young boys.  Are you sure he was speaking of THE LONE
RANGER and not a radio Western series that originated outside of Detroit?
Regardless, I really don't think it responsible to pass along unconfirmed
rumors on a list of this size.  Your rumor could develop a life of its own,
and I've never heard any suggestions of an unhealthy interest in minors
applied to Beemer from any of the dozens of WXYHZ veterans I've interviewed
over the years.
--ANTHONY TOLLIN

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 12:42:11 -0400
From: "George Coppen*" <gacoppen@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  LP to CD

I had a gent that lives in the same seniors complex that I live in as me if
I knew how he could copy a LP record to a CD. He has a CD burner in his
computer and of course he has a stereo. I dont have the faintest idea so I
told him I would ask the question here and see if someone out there wouldn't
mind helping him. His name is Horst and his e-mail address is
rennpf@[removed]
I thank you for helping Horst out, I know he will be very
[removed]

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 14:33:47 -0400
From: "Thomas Mason" <batz34@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  Brace Beemer Gay????

Mr. Hunt seems to be the victim of someone pulling his leg in the case of
Brace Beemer.  There has never been anything rumored about Beemer being gay.
For the Lone Ranger to hold children on his lap and kiss them would seem
quite typical and natural for the time to [removed] boys made up the
greater number of his fans.  Who is next?.................Tom Mix?  Batman
and Robin have already been accused by Frederick Wertham in his Seduction of
the Innocent of being the perfect gay couple.  Sheesh.
Tom Mason

--------------------------------
End of [removed] Digest V2002 Issue #313
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