Subject: [removed] Digest V2002 #330
From: "OldRadio Mailing Lists" <[removed]@[removed];
Date: 8/20/2002 11:58 AM

To: <[removed]@[removed];

    ------------------------------

                                The Old-Time Radio Digest!
                                  Volume 2002 : Issue 330
                             A Part of the [removed]!
                                     ISSN: 1533-9289

                                     Today's Topics:

      Smoke-Free Cigarettes                 [ "Stephen A Kallis, Jr." <skallisjr@ ]
      Re: Candy Cigarettes                  [ Elizabeth McLeod <lizmcl@[removed] ]
      Re: Elizabeth comments on WOTW copie  [ Eric J Cooper <ejcooper2002@[removed] ]
      wings cigarette cards                 [ Maxjo@[removed] ]
      Sleepy Time                           [ "Stephen A Kallis, Jr." <skallisjr@ ]
      Re: The Tail Wagging the Dog          [ Elizabeth McLeod <lizmcl@[removed] ]
      premiums                              [ "William Harper" <whhsa@[removed] ]
      The Talented Mantan Moreland          [ "Thomas Mason" <batz34@[removed] ]
      Burns and Allen                       [ Ivan G Shreve Jr <iscreve@[removed] ]
      Re: Lux, Kraft, etc.                  [ Ga6string@[removed] ]
      Re: Jeff Corey's Deth                 [ "james hunt" <jameshunt@[removed] ]
      Re: George's Magic TV                 [ Elizabeth McLeod <lizmcl@[removed] ]
      Jeff Corey                            [ "Irene Heinstein" <IreneTH@[removed] ]
      Burns and Allen                       [ "Irene Heinstein" <IreneTH@[removed] ]

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 10:46:24 -0400
    From: "Stephen A Kallis, Jr." <skallisjr@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Smoke-Free Cigarettes

    Mary Anne Morel, reminiscing about the candy cigarettes of old, notes,

>     I distinctly remember "smoking" Lucky Strikes in the late forties as a
>     dissolute eight year old, but can't recall any other candy brand names,
>     except that there were others. Does anyone else remember these? Are they
>     a gimmick of the forties, or earlier than that? And were the names those
>     of genuine cigarette brands or just sound-alikes? I doubt if there are
>     statistics that show the popularity of the different candy brands among
>     small fry, but it would be interesting to know how big a part they played
>     in luring children into smoking the real thing.

    I remember the candy cigarettes well.  The ones I "smoked" had boxes that
    looked like the "grownup" cigarettes, but the names were near-misses.  I
    remember "smoking" "Lucky Smiles" and "Pell Mell," for instance.  My
    parents smoked Dunhill cigarettes, and I'm retrospectively glad that
    there wasn't a near-miss candy cigarette for that brand.  The boxes that
    the candy cigarettes came in looked at a distance almost identical to the
    ones they were imitating.  The majority of the candy cigarettes I
    "smoked" all tasted the same, and i suspect the different brands all came
    from a single manufacturer. (The exception were some chocolate
    "cigarettes" loosely enclosed in cigarette paper; these cost a lot more
    than the standard ones,)

    However, I never became a smoker, though both parents were heavy smokers
    (my father died a smoker, and my mother quit cold turkey more than 30
    years ago, and still misses the morning routine of coffee and cigarette).
     I think that the candy cigarettes were less an inducement to youngsters
    to start smoking than because youngsters like to ape ":grownup things,"
    which smoking is.

    I don't believe that there was any concerted effort to get children to
    smoke in the 1940s, since in those days most adults smoked, and smoking
    was shown in most films and even depicted in OTR shows.  The candy
    cigarettes in those days, I suspect, were merely a kid's prop, just as
    cap pistols were for those who played cowboy or detective/cop.

> >     Are they a gimmick of the forties, or earlier than that? <<

    Since I wasn't alive until 1937, I wasn't paying any attention to candies
    until the 1940s.  But I suspect they were around a bit earlier than that.
     I recall seeing candy cigarettes as late as the mid-1970s.  However,
    inflation being what it was, the "pack" was a much smaller box, and the
    "cigarettes" were smaller, too.

    Were these ever advertised on OTR?  I don't recall any such commercials.

    Stephen A. Kallis, Jr.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 10:50:38 -0400
    From: Elizabeth McLeod <lizmcl@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Re: Candy Cigarettes

    On 8/20/02 12:07 AM OldRadio Mailing Lists wrote:

>     I distinctly remember "smoking" Lucky Strikes in the late forties as a
>     dissolute eight year old, but can't recall any other candy brand names,
>     except that there were others. Does anyone else remember these? Are they a
>     gimmick of the forties, or earlier than that? And were the names those of
>     genuine cigarette brands or just sound-alikes?

    What's frightening, in hindsight, is that at least for a time, these
    products were actually *licensed merchandise* authorized by the big
    tobacco firms, with the specific purpose of appealing to children. (There
    were chocolate cigarettes and cigars, and licorice pipes, as far back as
    the 1900s and 1910s, but they were generically labeled.) The practice of
    copying actual brands seems to have begun in the 1930s, when Brown and
    Williamson licensed several of its trademarks, including Avalon, Raleigh,
    and Kool, for use on candy cigarettes. As late as 1960, Philip Morris and
    Lorillard were entering into such contracts with candy makers, and there
    seem to have been tacit agreements in place between American Tobacco, R.
    J. Reynolds and the candy makers -- while American and RJR didn't
    officially license the products, they "looked the other way" so far as
    protecting their trademarks was concerned, figuring the use of their
    logos was a form of free advertising.

    Public opinion turned against candy cigarettes in the 1960s, and between
    1967 and 1970 the Big Tobacco firms canceled their contracts, withdrew
    permission for the use of their logos, and in some cases indignantly
    denied -- despite the evidence to the contrary -- that they had ever
    authorized such use in the first place. Undaunted, candy makers began
    using close imitations of cigarette logos on their packages -- as late as
    the 1980s, you could find "Lucky Spikes," "Marlbros" and "Virginia Slams"
    on the candy racks. In recent years, though, the manufacturers have moved
    away from close imitation of real cigarette brands, and have begun
    calling their products "candy sticks" instead of "candy cigarettes." Our
    local candy store carries a brand called "Target Candy" -- which comes in
    a pack with a red bullseye circle on a white background.

    Elizabeth

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 10:51:36 -0400
    From: Eric J Cooper <ejcooper2002@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Re: Elizabeth comments on WOTW copies

    I have to disagree with Elizabeth somewhat on "digital cleanups" of WOTW.
    They sound better to me, although I can still hear some surface noise.
    However, it seems to me that I have heard TWO distinct versions of LP
    copies . You can tell the difference at the point where Carl Philips is
    describing the monster coming out of the pit. On one version , you hear,
    as in Koch's script: "Wait a minute! Someone's crawling out of the hollow
    top. Someone or [removed]"  with a big skip type noise during "hollow
    top".
    In most circulating copies, you hear: "Wait a minute! Someone's crawling
    out of the hollow (overlap) someone or something"

    I only have heard the first variation once and the two copies I have are
    of the second variation. To amateurs like me, it would appear to be an
    attempted tape edit to delete the "skip"--and not a very good edit
    either.

    I once heard a 1968 or 69 interview with Howard Koch on KMOX , Saint
    Louis, in which he claimed to have someone that was working with him in
    connection with the WOTW material. Could this be Manheim Fox?

    Eric Cooper

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 10:51:50 -0400
    From: Maxjo@[removed]
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  wings cigarette cards

    i remember about 1940 -1941 wings cigarettes put a card in the cigarette
    packs with a picture of an airplane on one side of the card & a brief
    description of the [removed] also remember that wings had a drawing every week &
     gave away a piper cub [removed] don't remember the exact details,but it
    seems like you sent in an empty wings pack .
    i still have a few of those cards in my memorabilia.
    max salathiel
    del city oklahoma

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 10:46:46 -0400
    From: "Stephen A Kallis, Jr." <skallisjr@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Sleepy Time

    Patrick, in response to Lee's question about a product, asks,

>     Was that the Copoper tire compant? The slogan being "Time to Retire?

    "Time to Retire" was the slogan of Fisk Tire Company.  The logo is a
    little child in a nightshirt, carrying a lit candle, and with a tire
    slung over his shoulder.  I don't recall any OTR commercials on Fisk, but
    then, in those days, I wasn't very interested in car tire ads.

    Stephen A. Kallis, Jr.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 10:52:46 -0400
    From: Elizabeth McLeod <lizmcl@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Re: The Tail Wagging the Dog

    On 8/20/02 12:07 AM OldRadio Mailing Lists wrote:

>     Although, as a radio purist, I never allow these
>     canned effects in anything I direct if at all possible. Sometimes there is
>     just a sound that we can't generate on our own in our poorly equiped studio
>     like a car engine, etc.,

    To be fair, there's nothing at all "impure" about using recorded sound
    effects. 78rpm sound effects records were being used at NBC as early as
    1933, and you'll find advertisements for SFX record libraries all thru
    the industry trade publications thru the OTR era. A station I once worked
    at still had its Standard Program Library sound effects discs, most of
    them originally recorded in the 1930s -- and in fooling around with these
    I recognized many effects that were familiar from the OTR era. The
    Standard Program Library car crash effect shows up all the time in OTR,
    as do the Standard police siren and car brakes (you'll hear the latter
    two effects at the beginning of every Mutual-era "I Love A Mystery.")

    Properly blending sound effects from two or more discs, using one of the
    multiple platter turntable rigs found in every network SFX department,
    and may have been even more of a fine art than that of creating effects
    manually. With speed variations and clever mixing the recorded effects
    could be used to create a wide range of unique sounds -- and it took a
    real artist to master that technique.

>     In
>     modern audio drama, the temptation is to simply have the actors read the
>     same way, regardless of the scenario they are portraying, and let the sound
>     effects tell the story. This is why MAD irks so many OTR fans, and sounds
>     sort of funny in an odd way, like it just does not sound natural.

    The tail *does* wag the dog for a lot of Modern Audio Drama productions,
    perhaps because of the "coolness" factor in creating elaborate SFX. If
    you find yourself listening to the sound effects more than the story --
    if the SFX actually call attention to themselves for the sake of their
    own cleverness -- then for my money, the balance has been lost.

>     If they were to remake it today, special effects would run amuck
>     trying to portray the rabbit in clever and concealed ways, thus removing

    >from the story that which was the most crucial, its minimalist element.

    I've often said -- and I firmly believe -- that the most challenging form
    of radio is the ultra-minimalist two-person dialogue serial in the "Amos
    'n' Andy"/"Lum and Abner"/"Ethel and Albert" manner. There are no
    crutches to lean on in this format -- no live audience to mug for, no
    elaborate sound effects, no lush music bridges to set the scene, no
    full-scale production staff, no first-person-singular narration.  Just
    two people sitting alone in a room creating an entire coherent and
    believable world out of nothing but their voices -- all the stress is on
    the performers themselves, and the entire program succeeds or fails on
    the basis of their ability as actors and on the quality of their script.
    There's literally no place to hide, nothing to distract the listener if
    you give a poor performance -- which may be why only a very few people
    ever really did master the form.

    Elizabeth

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 10:52:57 -0400
    From: "William Harper" <whhsa@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  premiums

    Dear Folks;
    Peace be with you.
    After the postings about premiums I began to wonder if the various radio
    shows that promoted premiums ever did by using premiums in the dialogue of
    the show?  My research on Straight Arrow indicates that this was done.
    Scripture, Sheldon Stark, was keyed to various promotions and thus included
    the premium item in the script.
    Manituwah,
    Bill

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 10:53:18 -0400
    From: "Thomas Mason" <batz34@[removed];
    To: "OldRadio Mailing Lists" <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  The Talented Mantan Moreland

    What a treasure Mantan [removed] a truly gifted comedian.  If you have any
    doubts get a copy of the movie "King of the Zombies". It has recently been
    restored by Roan Archival Entertainment on DVD.  He literally steals the
    movie with his comedic performance against such B stalwarts as John Archer
    (who had a brief run as the Shadow on Radio) and Dick Purcell (star of the
    Republic Serial "Captain America").  His work on the later Charlie Chan
    movies with Sidney Toler always brought a welcome degree of levity to those
    films.
    Tom Mason

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 11:30:14 -0400
    From: Ivan G Shreve Jr <iscreve@[removed];
    To: Old Time Radio Mailing List <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Burns and Allen

    Mike Thompson ventured forth this opinion:

>     I believe they started doing their husband-and-wife stuff in 1942, due to
>     falling ratings. I'm with you; I wouldn't recommend the pre-'42 episodes
>     either.  Moreover, the shows just aren't funny. They're poorly written and
>     the supporting characters are one-dimensional.

    I agree with Mike as well--although I will point out that one of the bonuses
    of the pre-1942 sitcom shows is that Gracie gets to do musical numbers, with
    greater frequency than in the Swan/Maxwell House/Amindent years.

    Then, as the applause died down, Chris Chandler added his two cents:

>     by 1948, the B&A series series featured thinly-veiled imitations of Bert
>     Gordon's Mad Russian, Bill Thompson's Old Timer, Elliot Lewis' Frank Remley
>     ("Joe Bagley", actually played BY Elliot Lewis!), and Kenny Delmar's Senator
>     Claghorn--usually all in a single episode!

    You know, I'd always been curious as to why the Burns & Allen show
    prominently showcased that "Mr. Judson" character played by Gale Gordon (I'm
    guessing this is who you are referring to when you mention Burns'
    "appropriating" a Senator Claghorn character)--he has to be, without a
    doubt, the unfunniest supporting character in the history of radio comedy.
    (His punchline, "Little lady, I like your sense of humor" always gets a
    scream from the audience, something that still puzzles me to this day.)
    Every time I listen to one of those shows I think "They got rid of the Happy
    Postman for THIS?"

    Thanks for the enlightening post re: Burns & Allen, Chris.

    Ivan
    --
    "I know I'm [removed] as long as I make 'em laugh they're not gonna lock me
    up." -- Red Skelton

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 11:45:45 -0400
    From: Ga6string@[removed]
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Re: Lux, Kraft, etc.

    Herb Harrison writes:

>     Lux is still [removed] at my local '99 Cents Only' store: 3 bars for 99
>     cents.

    Where are you located? I've never seen it here in Georgia, but if I do, I'll
    certainly give it a try.

>     Brian, I assume you watched "Kraft Theater" on TV. Didn't that have an
>     effect on the brand of macaroni-and-cheese mix that your mother bought?

    Well, you know what they say about assumptions. :^)  Actually, Kraft Theater
    was off the air before I was 5, so I have no memory of it (although I loved
    the mac 'n' cheese, and today MY kids do, too). On the other hand, I'm sure
    the ads that ran during the "Bugs Bunny - Road Runner Hour" on Saturday
    mornings, circa 1970, had a profound influence on what breakfast cereal,
    etc., we ate.

    But here I go, drifting off-topic [removed]

    Bryan (nee "Brian") Powell

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 13:31:34 -0400
    From: "james hunt" <jameshunt@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Re: Jeff Corey's Deth

    S I have just finished reading the obituary of  actor Jeff Corey in today's
    "New York Times
    Online."
    There is info on his character roles in such films as "Little Big Man",
    "Butch Cassidy And
    The Sundance Kid" etc and his being blacklisted in the 1950's-all of which I
    already knew.
    He also-about this time-started an acting school and among his clients were
    Barbara Striesand,
    Richard Chamberlain and a very young Jack Nicholson.
    I know this man from movies and some tv.
    However, I think he also did some radio acting in the 1940's-1950's. Though
    this Is Not
    touched upon in the NY Times article.
    Are Jeff Corey, the movie, tv, stage actor and Jeff Corey, the radio
    actor-two different
    men or the same person?
    I have a 1950's broadcast of "Escape:"Three Skeleton Key' and  another ,
    "Blood Bath"
    in which Jeff Corey has third billing.
    I'm hoping someone on the list an help me with this.
    Thank you very much.
    DH.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 13:32:26 -0400
    From: Elizabeth McLeod <lizmcl@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Re: George's Magic TV

    W. Gary W. wonders,

>     i'd have to agree that adding ronnie burns to the TV cast does seem directly
>     influenced by the success of ricky nelson. but what was the precedent for
>     the magic TV set in george's den?

    I think you can trace this back to "The Big Broadcast of 1936," a 1935
    Paramount comedy which brought together a wide assortment of radio
    entertainers, tied together by a loose plot. Burns and Allen have a key
    role in that plot -- with George trying to sell broadcasting executive
    Jack Oakie his latest invention -- a futuristic television set which can
    monitor the activities of anyone, anywhere. Burns and Allen demonstrate
    the device to Oakie by tuning in on various specialty bits done by radio
    personalities -- including a scene in Amos and Andy's "A&A Grocery
    Store," a vocal selection by Bing Crosby, a performance by the Vienna
    Boys Choir, a dance specialty by Bill Robinson, and -- the highlight of
    the picture -- Ethel Merman's "The Animal in Me," with Miss Merman
    romping and frolicking in front of a process screen depicting a herd of
    circus elephants, who are manipulated into doing Berkleyesque
    musical-comedy dance routines by clever film editing. (This is one of the
    most skull-imploding, hallucinogenic scenes ever committed to film, and
    no amount of description can ever substitute for the experience of
    actually seeing it.)

    I'd suggest that Burns remembered this "ominscient television set" idea
    from the film, and decided years later that a similar concept would work
    on his TV program.

    Elizabeth

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 13:32:34 -0400
    From: "Irene Heinstein" <IreneTH@[removed];
    To: "OTR" <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Jeff Corey

    Michael Gwynne wrote of the death of Jeff Corey.   In case he and others are
    interested here's a link to Jeff Corey's obituary in today's NY Times.

    [removed]

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 13:52:57 -0400
    From: "Irene Heinstein" <IreneTH@[removed];
    To: "OTR" <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Burns and Allen

    Chris Chandler 'bashing' George Burns?   :))

    Even if everything you said about Burns is true it's certainly not unusual
    in a competitive medium, and surely he's not alone.

    I'm a big fan of Burns and Allen and George was one of the true good guys in
    Hollywood by all accounts.    We were on vacation in Lake Tahoe and Burns
    was closing his show the same night we arrived at the hotel.   My then
    adolescent daughter and I got on the hotel elevator and George was in there
    alone.    My daughter knew him from "Oh God" and showed that recognition.
    He was absolutely delightful on that elevator ride and had us laughing for
    about 6 floors.  Nice man.

    He bought Gracie a new mink coat when she was seriously ill claiming that
    would keep her from knowing just how ill she was because she knew he
    wouldn't waste money buying a mink for a dying person.

    Irene

    --------------------------------
    End of [removed] Digest V2002 Issue #330
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