Subject: [removed] Digest V2005 #211
From: [removed]@[removed]
Date: 7/13/2005 12:12 AM

To: [removed]@[removed]

    ------------------------------

                                The Old-Time Radio Digest!
                                  Volume 2005 : Issue 211
                             A Part of the [removed]!
                                 [removed]
                                     ISSN: 1533-9289

                                     Today's Topics:

      Blessings on posters and lurkers ali  [ Lee Munsick <damyankeeinva@earthlin ]
      Re: Freberg's show                    [ Dixonhayes@[removed] ]
      Stan Freberg & TV + record-cleaning   [ "Mark Kinsler" <kinsler33@[removed] ]
      Re: Lon Chaney Jr show?               [ Illoman <illoman@[removed]; ]
      On-demand live record players         [ Lee Munsick <damyankeeinva@earthlin ]
      Elliot and Cathy Lewis                [ "kclarke5@[removed]" <kclarke5@juno. ]
      Straight Arrow premiums               [ <whhsa@[removed]; ]
      Diskwasher Woes (cont'd)              [ Gord J L <lepsegj@[removed]; ]
      Re: Curtains anyone?                  [ Hal Stone <otrjug@[removed]; ]
      Re: To the Grecian Goddess            [ Hal Stone <otrjug@[removed]; ]
      ISO a Vendor from Cincinnati Old-Tim  [ Paul Evans <evans_paul1963@[removed] ]

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2005 09:57:32 -0400
    From: Lee Munsick <damyankeeinva@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Blessings on posters and lurkers alike!

    After a recent appeal here for help in a related question, Bill Harker
    described himself as someone "who could probably spend hours tracking this
    down but figures someone on the list knows off the top of his/her head".

    My sentiments exactly.  I have benefitted more than I can acknowledge from
    the various posters, and lurkers who contact me directly.  To thank them all
    in my book will require a separate chapter all by itself, which I know the
    publisher will not allow.  They know who they are.  I recently posted my hope
    to get a recording of the Bing Crosby program aired from the Tobacco
    Distributors Convention at the Chicago Opera House, aired Wednesday night,
    April 5, 1950.  Crosby, Perry Como and Arthur Godfrey all sang amidst a lot
    of funny repartee.  A generous co-reader sent a CD gratis all the way from
    Japan, in my hands a few days after my posting!  Thank you, noble soul!  He
    also had, and so included the Crosby program from the Wednesday show of the
    week before, which included two promos for the upcoming Chicago-based
    program.

    Things must have been a bit hectic in the interim, because no less than two
    of the songs used in the week-before program were repeated in the Chicago
    show.  One was the best-selling "Candy and Cake", sung by Crosby in the
    earlier program backed by Jud Conlon's Rhythmaires assaying (and varying) the
    work of The Chordettes in the Godfrey Columbia record.  The following week,
    it was Crosby and Godfrey together, but without Crosby trying to imitate
    Godfrey, as Art Carney did in a later performance.  On that one, it's hard to
    tell who's which.  The Chicago Crosby show was edited to 30 minutes from what
    I believe ran live for over an hour!  Great stuff!

    Unfortunately, my longed-for conversation about frozen orange juice between
    Messrs. Crosby and Godfrey was not there!  Sigh.  So I must have heard it in
    one of the Arthur Godfrey programs of that same week, April 3-7, 1950.  Can
    anyone help me with those shows?  Chicago material could very well have been
    spread over several days that week.  Thanks so much!

    In the past two weeks, I have been alerted by a poster's referral to the
    greatly expanded huge roster of shows listed by performers, put up by J.
    Goldin as the GoldIndex, and another poster's mention of the list of top
    radio program ratings.  Treasure troves!

    The latter starts with the initial rating service, moves into Hoopers, and
    goes through the Nielsen ratings.  The posted list jumps without break from
    one to the other.  Apparently the services did not overlap?  Did the first
    company become the second, and it the third?  Can anyone lucidate me?

    Many thanks to you all and especially to Charlie Summers, for keeping this
    noble steed flying high!  As anybody familiar with Eadweard (Edward)
    Muybridge knows, eager equines really do take off from the ground.  And
    thanks to you all, we soar with you!

    Bestus, Lee Munsick

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2005 12:15:03 -0400
    From: Dixonhayes@[removed]
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Re: Freberg's show
    X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative
    X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain

    In a message dated 7/12/05 8:59:43 AM Central Daylight Time,
    [removed]@[removed] writes:

>     Given that, by the late 1950s, nearly all "adult" ([removed], non-juvenile,
>     non-soap) entertainment programming that actually maintained sponsorship had
>     such enterprises bankrolling it, it was extremely unlikely that Freberg
>     would have found an acceptable company to keep the show going.

    That's a shame, because there were plenty of sponsors on network radio (CBS
    in particular, Freberg's network) that weren't tobacco or alcohol-related.
    Pepsi, Kellogg's, Post, Lysol, the Bell System and Chrysler appeared to be
    especially big advertisers in that era, based on some of the other shows that
    are in
    circulation.  Perhaps it's because he didn't want the show's opening to be
    jerrybuilt around someone's jingle, the way the CBS News hourly updates at one
    point actually used "See the USA in Your Chevrolet" as a theme a few years
    later.  Freberg constantly poked fun at advertising and he probably wanted an
    advertiser with a *really* good sense of humor about it.

    Dixon

      *** This message was altered by the server, and may not appear ***
      ***                  as the sender intended.                   ***

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2005 12:16:56 -0400
    From: "Mark Kinsler" <kinsler33@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Stan Freberg & TV + record-cleaning solutions

>     So what =did= prevent the Freberg show from having a substantially more,
>     um, substantial run?

>     Freberg himself has said many times exactly what was responsible: his
>     inability to find a sponsor that comported with his moral/ethical
>     standards.
>     To wit, Freberg was unalterably opposed to being sponsored by alcohol
>     and/or tobacco concerns.

>     Given that, by the late 1950s, nearly all "adult" ([removed], non-juvenile,
>     non-soap) entertainment programming that actually maintained sponsorship
>     had such enterprises bankrolling it, it was extremely unlikely that Freberg
>     would have found an acceptable company to keep the show going.

    It seems to me that Art Linkletter's shows were typically sponsored by
    non-alcohol, non-tobacco firms: Paper-Mate pens come to mind.  It is true,
    however, that Italian Swiss Colony and Chesterfield really ruled the
    airwaves back then.

    Freberg reminds me a lot of Mad Magazine, whose avoidance of advertising and
    stern moral standards (Really.  Read it.) kept it from expanding in any way,
    but also kept it from sliding down the paths of sleaziness taken by, say,
    _Lampoon_ magazine.

>     I've always had the idea that Freberg really wasn't all that interested in
>     =finding= a sponsor, anyway. By the end of the show's first week, he was
>     already at loggerheads with CBS brass over the censorship of concepts
>     deemed potentially "offensive" (which lead directly to the "Elderly Man River"
>     sketch, and indirectly to the "Swiss" running gag). His autobiography
>     suggests that the relationship never got any better, and had grown overly
>     burdensome long before the end of the summer.

    I wonder if Mr Freberg is difficult for the average show business
    administrator to work with under any circumstances.  But I've never heard
    the "Swiss" business.  "Elderly Man River, however,
    continues to run through my head at the oddest times.

    About record-cleaning fluids:

    Please lay off the alcohol: Dr Biel is correct--alcohol is a specific
    solvent for shellac.  It's also a likely solvent for many of the other
    long-forgotten plastics used for phonograph records over the years; there
    would have been imaginative mixtures of hard rubber and shellac, probably
    with a bit of celluloid or gutta percha or carnauba wax.  There's no telling
    what was in early vinyls, either.

    If I'm not mistaken, the Library of Congress once recommended distilled
    water, with perhaps a few drops of liquid dish detergent thrown in to break
    the surface tension of the water.  This will dissolve sugars from soft
    drinks.  Tobacco tars are another story; I don't know if these are
    water-soluble.  However, the removal of even water-soluble crud and dust
    from the grooves can turn a skip into a pop, and a pop into a small scratch.

    When I was fixing lots of turntables in the 1970's, I would recommend that
    my customers just wash their worst records in with the dishes in the sink: a
    bit of dish detergent, lots of lukewarm water, and a soft cloth, and let
    them dry in the dish rack.  This restored a lot of 45's back to life, though
    I didn't recommend doing it with antique disks.  In any event, be careful of
    the label.

    Does anyone recall the "wet play" schemes of the 1970's?  You were supposed
    to keep your records wet with some secret solution while you played them.
    This would lubricate the grooves and do other great things.  I believe it
    also rusted some phonograph cartridges.

    Ah, the days of [removed]

    M Kinsler

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2005 12:17:05 -0400
    From: Illoman <illoman@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Re: Lon Chaney Jr show?

>     02-10-1906 - Lon Chaney, Jr. - Oklahoma City,  Oklahoma Territory - d.
>     7-12-1973
>     actor: "Pursuit of Happiness"

    Is this the name of the show? Can someone give more information about
    this?

    Thanks,
    Mike

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2005 13:17:38 -0400
    From: Lee Munsick <damyankeeinva@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  On-demand live record players

    Alan Bell described a scene in the film "Playmates" in which a business is
    depicted where people put coins into a gin mill wall device like a jukebox,
    but wound up requesting a recording be played via wire from a central
    location, talking to an unseen but beautiful (of course) female DJ.

    I recently watched "My Dream Is Yours" (1949) with Doris Day and Jack Carson,
    among many others of a great cast totally wasted IMHO on a piece of junk.
    Much of it takes place in various "radio studios" which - to invoke another
    thread here recently - displayed more yards of curtains and draperies than I
    have ever seen before, both travelling and just swooping all over the
    ceiling, walls, etc.  One such "remote" location was supposed to be
    Hollywood's Coconut Grove  (not the fiery Boston one), only hinted at among
    all the drapery by two sickly looking artificial coconut trees.  This is a
    grove? Unfortunately, I was not as prescient as Alan - I watched the whole
    tortuous thing, constantly hoping it would improve.  Sound like today's TV
    programs?  Just the medium changed.

    The fact that perennial loudmouth, smart--- Jack Carson is the romantic lead
    who in the end winds up with Doris Day is probably a good indicator of the
    film's stretching.  If you can imagine both Michael Curtiz and Friz Freleng
    directing, no less than SIX writers credited including Jerry Wald, and cast
    members S. Z. "Cuddles" Sakall, Lee Bowman, Adolph Menjou, Selena Royle,
    Sheldon Leonard, Franklin Pangborn, Frankie Carle and others, you might
    wonder how the film could be such a dud.  Throw in an Easter-inspired Doris
    Day's child's dream with Miss Day and Jack Carson ridiculously dressed as
    Easter Bunnies, dancing and singing with the animated Bugs Bunny and Tweetie,
    you begin to catch on.  All those writers spoiling the brew.  Only good thing
    was our radio friend Mel Blanc doing the honors for the toons.

    The device Alan described in "Playmates" was recreated precisely in "My
    [removed]", where conniving, semi-crooked talent agent Jack Carson hears DJ
    Doris Day singing a particular song, set up by uncle Edgar Kennedy (complete
    with face wipe).   The idea was athat in that business, ctually singing that
    way was a no-no; all the girls were supposed to do is play the requested
    records.

    These live-spin operations (I don't know the business term, but someone else
    will) were common in the 40s, usually in large cities which could support
    them.  Once the on-site terminal was installed and the connecting phone line
    completed, one needed only one central location filled with single records,
    negating the need for buying hundreds of copies, and all the route operators
    to change them in hundreds of sites, etc.  They did have to go out and
    collect all those coins, though!

    Perhaps for us older folk, the one nice thing about the concept is that they
    undoubtedly played nice recordings, and that back then there were such to
    play!  I don't think there's anyone left in the music business today that
    even knows what good music is, or was.  At least that's my opinion.  From
    this grumpy old man - Lee Munsick

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2005 13:23:30 -0400
    From: "kclarke5@[removed]" <kclarke5@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Elliot and Cathy Lewis

         Could anyone please tell me if Elliot and
    Cathy Lewis were related, either by family or
    marriage? I listened to an eps of "My Friend Irma"
    last night and discovered that he was one of the
    writers and she was a co-star.

    Another OTR Fan,

    Kenneth Clarke

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2005 19:19:02 -0400
    From: <whhsa@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Straight Arrow premiums

    Dear Folks;

    Peace be with all of you.

    In my Straight Arrow research I discovered that most premiums were used in
    the scripts. However not being able to read every script I can only surmise
    that the premium were used in up to four shows thus covering at least a two
    week period. Some of the ways the premiums were used, especially the
    Straight Arrow, patch was most ingenious.

    Manituwah

    Bill

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2005 19:19:47 -0400
    From: Gord J L <lepsegj@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Diskwasher Woes (cont'd)

    From: "MICHAEL BIEL" <mbiel@[removed];

>     Where did you research this?????  You have been SERIOUSLY misled.  I've
>     never heard any expert suggest the use of a solution containing more than
>     1% (that is ONE PERCENT) alcohol.  Indeed, the general opinion is that
>     alcohol should be avoided.

    Well, it looks like I really stirred things up with my suggestion about
    isopropyl alcohol! Here is what a chemist told me today about spraying LPs
    with 20% isoproyl alcohol and 80% water:

    "WELL I WOULD NOT WANT TO SOAK THEM IN IT however a short rinse should not
    do too much harm
    Alcohol can dissolve out the plasticizers, BUT, with that much water and
    keeping it short should be ok
    However, if your collection is super valuable, then maybe you need a higher
    authority than me!!!"

    Two web sites that say isopropyl alcohol is OK are:
    [removed]
    [removed]

    Maybe it's different strokes for different folks.

    Gord

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2005 19:22:01 -0400
    From: Hal Stone <otrjug@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Re: Curtains anyone?

>        Derek Tague wondered --

> >     Did radio studios actually employ the use of curtains with their
> >     live audiences?

    And Joe responded;

>     I'll leave the offical reply to our 1930's expert Elizabeth,

    What am I???? Chopped Liver?

>     but I would imagine its a bit of stage play as on Jack Benny where he would be
>     spoofing some popular film and when introducing say "And now on with our
>     play.  Curtain.  Action!"

    Well, guess what Joe. You imagined wrong.

    I just happened to be around in the thirties, and just happened to have been
    a Network radio performer, and just happened to spend countless hours in a
    studio that had a "Curtain".

    But it was not like a Broadway theatre curtain across the proscenium. In
    NBC's studio 6A and it's sister studio, 6B, the stage was raised, as was the
    audience, seated on an incline for better visibility of the activity up on
    the stage

    The downstage area (The performance area) was where most of the action took
    place, and that took up about 2 thirds of the depth of the actual stage
    square footage. However, there was a curtain that hung across the back of
    this area, and behind it was the remaining third of the total stage space.

    For convenience sake, the "studio set up crew", (a fancy name for stage
    hands) would generally store large musical instruments behind this drapery
    if the total stage area wasn't needed. They temporally stashed things like a
    Large filter booth on casters, Grand Piano, definitely an organ, and
    possibly harp, tympani, marimbas, xylophones, etc. (I would sometimes plunk
    or thump on them if I arrived at the studio earlier than our "call".

    However, we did use the curtain every show. The stars of the program would
    remain behind the curtain during the announcers audience "warm-up". Near the
    end of his spiel, the supporting cast members would casually walk out from
    behind the curtain and take seats along the wall where the entire cast would
    eventually sit (until needed at the microphones). Then, individually, each
    principal character of the Archie Program was introduced by the announcer,
    who would then emerge from behind the curtain, walk to the stage apron and
    wave to the audience, perhaps a gentle bow, all to thunderous applause. :)
    In my case, I might even wink at a pretty girl in the front row. :)

    The pecking order was Mrs. Andrews, Father Andrews, Betty, Veronica, Jughead
    then Archie.

    Now I have no idea how prevalent curtains were in major West Coast radio
    studies, but it's quite likely they were used. They add a touch of "Theatre"
    to an otherwise drab setting. Not to mention sound deadening capabilities.
    But the vast majority of radio programs emanated from much smaller studios,
    and none of them had curtains. Particularly, many of the soaps and dramas
    preferred not to perform in front of a live audience. They certainly didn't
    need some yahoo laughing out loud or having a coughing fit during a tense
    scene.

    In short, yes, curtains were a fact of life at NBC. I don't remember all
    that much about the studios at CBS. And I can only guess at the studios in
    La La Land.

    By the way, did you know how the terms "Ring down the curtain" and "Curtain
    Calls" originated. Both are legitimate theatre terms.

    I go into that in great detail (with pictures, even) in my book "Aw! Relax
    [removed]!. Available at

    [removed]

    I keep trying to tell you guys the book is not just about the "Archie
    Andrews" radio show. It's filled with all sorts of stuff about what it was
    like to "grow up" in Show Business. My Radio activities were only a part of
    that life. The Broadway stage, and my appearing in numerous plays gets every
    bit as much attention, primarily because major NY radio actors worked in
    both mediums. The book goes into detail about all those wonderful stars that
    did both, and contains many anecdotes about the ones I had the opportunity
    to know and work with.

    (Yes, Ian, the awesome Aussie. I still have a few copies left.) But if the
    truth be known, every time I mention the book, I get 3 or 4 more orders. I
    guess it's simply jogging peoples memory, or maybe reaching an OTR "Newbie"
    or two, or three or four. :)

    And to tell the honest [removed] seems to have nothing but good
    things to say after reading it. As a matter of fact, I only received one
    criticism. They were not happy that I mentioned sex and some erotic
    encounters that were part of my experiences and maturation process. Oh well.
    You can't please everybody.

    Hal(Harlan)Stone
    Jughead

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2005 19:27:35 -0400
    From: Hal Stone <otrjug@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Re: To the Grecian Goddess

>     Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2005 16:41:14 -0400
>     question for Hal [removed]

    So says my pal, Irene, who would be perfection indeed if hadn't grown up
    rooting for the New York Giants baseball team.

>     I recently heard a special 15 minute episode of 'Archie Andrews' dated
>     5/7/46 titled "Archie Andrews' Day at Camp", a special program presented by
>     the YMCA.  Bob Sherry is the announcer.  Archie is played by James Dobson,
>     the only acting credit given, but Jughead sure sounds like Hal Stone.

    You have a fine tuned ear Irene. Twas me, alright, but I don't recall the
    exact situation.

>     Dunning says that the NBC period started on 6/2/45.  Can Hal provide more
>     information, and why wasn't Bob Hastings playing Archie?

    It's not the first time Dunning was wrong. I started playing "Jughead" on
    NBC in 1944. I was 13, and I was 13 in 1944.

    Irene, if I'm not mistaken, you did get a copy of my book, right. If not, I
    explained in it that the Original NBC Archie, Charlie Mullen, was drafted
    following the end of WWII. We were searching for a replacement for the
    "Archie" role, when, lo and behold, who shows up to read for the part, but
    little Bobby Hastings, fresh out of the Air Force. He had the gall to be
    wearing his spiffy looking officers Uniform, so being patriotic, I
    volunteered to read opposite him for his audition, which was to take place
    after we went off the air that [removed] I made the kid look good. After
    all, that's the least I could do for a returning serviceman. :)

    It's possible that the 15 minute bit for the YMCA was sort of an audition
    for Jimmy Dobson.

    Anyway, there was a two week period between Mullen's departure for the Army,
    and Bobby's final discharge. Consequently, James Dobson played Archie for
    that brief period.

    He had been known by the director and cast, because he previously had played
    the character Reggie a few times, so he filled the gap as "Archie" for two
    episodes. At least that's what I vaguely recall.

    Take care, [removed] Go D-Backs.

    Hal(Harlan)Stone
    Jughead

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2005 19:28:02 -0400
    From: Paul Evans <evans_paul1963@[removed];
    To: Old-Time Radio <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  ISO a Vendor from Cincinnati Old-Time
     Convention
    X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative
    X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain

    I'm trying to track down someone who was at the Old-Time Radio and Nostalgia
    Convention at the Ramada Hotel in Cincinnati, OH last April.  This person was
    selling the extant CBS coverage of JFK's assassination on DVD, and also had
    (although not with him) a DVD of NBC's coverage in his inventory.  I jotted
    down your address in my notebook, but the notebook seems to have vanished.

    If you are that [removed] or know who I'm talking [removed] please E-mail me
    privately, either at this address or at [removed]@[removed].  Thanks a
    lot!  (If my notebook turns up, I will let you good people know about it.)

      *** This message was altered by the server, and may not appear ***
      ***                  as the sender intended.                   ***

    --------------------------------
    End of [removed] Digest V2005 Issue #211
    *********************************************

    Copyright [removed] Communications, York, PA; All Rights Reserved,
      including republication in any form.

    If you enjoy this list, please consider financially supporting it:
       [removed]

    For Help: [removed]@[removed]

    To Unsubscribe: [removed]@[removed]

    To Subscribe: [removed]@[removed]
      or see [removed]

    For Help with the Archive Server, send the command ARCHIVE HELP
      in the SUBJECT of a message to [removed]@[removed]

    To contact the listmaster, mail to listmaster@[removed]

    To Send Mail to the list, simply send to [removed]@[removed]