Subject: [removed] Digest V2001 #352
From: "OldRadio Mailing Lists" <[removed]@[removed];
Date: 11/4/2001 9:03 AM

To: <[removed]@[removed];

    ------------------------------

                                The Old-Time Radio Digest!
                                  Volume 2001 : Issue 352
                             A Part of the [removed]!
                                     ISSN: 1533-9289

                                     Today's Topics:

      A Parallel in Two Recent Threads ??   [ HERITAGE4@[removed] ]
      Re: death of quality radio            [ "Rodney w bowcock jr." <rodney-self ]
      OTR/ Audio Drama                      [ Wich2@[removed] ]
      Re: Early TV                          [ Elizabeth McLeod <lizmcl@[removed] ]
      OPEN REEL TAPES: BETTERTHAN EVER      [ "Owens Pomeroy" <opomeroy@[removed]; ]
      Memory lapse                          [ Harry Bartell <bartell@[removed] ]
      New time radio drama                  [ lawrence albert <albertlarry@yahoo. ]
      Hollywood Theatre Group               [ "Lois Culver" <lois@[removed]; ]
      Re: Record to cd a ?                  [ "Donna Byrd" <dmb5@[removed]; ]
      Re tape and OTR                       [ "Thomas Mason" <batz34@[removed] ]
      mp3 quality (or lack of quality)      [ JBeck57143@[removed] ]
      Jughead, live and in color            [ "J. Pope" <jpope101@[removed] ]
      sticky again                          [ "Joe Salerno" <sergei01@[removed] ]
      mp3 player                            [ "Edwin Ortiz" <eddieo396@[removed]; ]

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2001 11:49:14 -0500
    From: HERITAGE4@[removed]
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject: A Parallel in Two Recent Threads ??

    The answer to the question of why network radio broadcasting
    ended by the mid 1960's and radio drama even earlier,  is one that I have
    been asked many many times as a broadcaster and an historian.  The answer is
    not difficult.  One writer to this forum called it "greed" which has a very
    negative conotation. But, yes, it was meney-driven and business-inspired, but
    not exactly a calculated plan to greedily "stop"  radio.  The answer is
    simply that time and technology moved ahead.  The new medium, television, had
    been delayed several years by WWII, and after it was over, RCA, NBC, CBS and
    DuMont all began making network TV the "new medium."   The budgets were
    enormous compared to that of radio, and sponsors had to "pick"  what radio
    they could continue, and which dollars would go to the new-age broadcasting.
    By the time this happened, the technology
    of radio broadcasting had reached a point where the sound was excellent and
    the techniques were near-perfect.  Despite radio's
    moving ahead, the lure of sound and picture, together, was too much for a
    recovering post=war land of "listeners."  By 1948, NBC had successfully
    launched programs regionally and by midsummer had shows going everywhere.
    The introduction of the Coaxial Cable joined the two coasts, and the new
    media infant was on its way.
    It wasn't anything radio "did wrong" -- it was simply being moved ahead with
    the times and technical [removed] it has never stopped.  National
    sponsors could buy time on a network for a bit more than on radio, and their
    message would go out to a new massive audience huddled around their home TV's
    to watch Berle,
    Benny, Ed Sullivan and many of their old favorites from radio.  Kids grew up
    watching Howdy Doody and Kukla, Fran ands Ollie,  right from the beginning.
    Radio continued to offer their wares to sponsors, even at discounted prices,
    but the magic was somehow [removed] by the newboy on the block -- the
    "shimmering box".
    People would watch anything --atrocious old cowboy movies,  "late night"
    wrestling and a lot of worthless stuff that was certainly not up to the
    quality standards of network radio.
    [removed] had the picture and the excitement of "live" programming, just as
    radio had introduced decades before.
    That's what happened to old time network radio and dramas.  It was simply
    "replaced" just like we are replacing our analog TV with digital TV nowadays.
    Just like we replace our "old" computers with nice, new much more powerful
    models. And cable has changed
    everything forever!
    And therein, too, is the answer to the cassette vs. CD question.
    CDs are superior in every respect to cassettes.  Open reels are still
    in use in radio/TV/recording installations, but are steadily giving way to
    the new digital technology.  No loss copies,  highly accessible to
    restoration and editing,  Extensively adaptable.
    The cassette (which was the basis of my OTR business) was and still is
    remarkably good considering the amount of information stored on 4 tracks on
    such a thin band of tape. Stored well, good quality cassettes have lasted .
    Many people are afraid that CD's are extremely vulnerable.  It's not really
    true.  They have a yet unmeasured shelf life and can be instantly copied a
    zillion time with
    no losses in sound.  No doubt there will be improvements in the digital
    mediums both for recording and playing back audio and video, but for now we
    have the best sound possible on CD.
    I think there is an analogy between radio vs. tv,  and cassetes vs. CDs.  It
    is all part of American technological progress.  Thank God
    that we live in a country where we still can can make choices!
    Please remember December the 7th.
    Tom Heathwood - Heritage Radio - Boston       11/03/01
    [removed]

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2001 11:49:43 -0500
    From: "Rodney w bowcock jr." <rodney-selfhelpbikeco@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject: Re: death of quality radio

>     However, don't you
>     think that this hobby will live on with a newer generation better if we
>     don't keep telling them that everything from their generation is not
>     worthy?

    As a 22 year old male, I can assure you that 99% of our TV, Radio, Films
    and Comics produced during my generation are not worthy for human
    consumption.

    There is only 1 commercial music station broadcasting today that is worth
    while, and that is 97X, ([removed]) broadcasting from Oxford, OH.  Even if
    you don't like the style of music played, one must respect the fierce
    refusal of the owners and programmers to conform to the standards of
    lousiness set by Clear Channel communications and their efforts to
    homogenize and monopolize the radio industry to the point where we
    essentially listen to the exact same radio station regardless of what
    city we live in.

    In regards to the CD vs Tape battle, I'd take CD any day.  I've never had
    a CD diminish in sound quality, nor has my CD player ever destroyed any
    discs.  I have tapes recorded 10 years ago that are barely listenable now
    due to the hiss that has crept in, and I've had countless tapes destroyed
    by faulty players.  If at all possible, I'll take CD, and I'm enjoying
    the MP3 format as well for listening at work.  I still prefer the other
    formats though, but for sheer quantity and affordability, MP3 cannot be
    beat.

    rodney.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2001 11:56:08 -0500
    From: Wich2@[removed]
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject: OTR/ Audio Drama

    Folks-
    As a lover of the BEST of OTR (let's be honest: like TV, much of it was
    dross; but when it was [removed] !),
    and a practitioner of N (new)TR (I assume the "S" in OSR means "sounding"?),
    I've been following with interest the recent thread re: the "death" of the
    medium.

                   Well, it just ain't so.

    True, the large scale commercial venue evaporated. But I don't think there's
    ever been a year since it's last
    (1962?) that someone, somewhere, wasn't using this still great mode of
    expression. Don't get me wrong-
    no one more than I would love to see more exposure- & money- in the field
    (!); but, terrific work is still being done by folks who work chiefly for the
    love of the medium.

     WORK IN SOME CASES EVERY BIT AS GOOD AS THE CLASSICS.

    One of the most amazing responses that Quicksilver got with its first show
    was "I didn't know such things still existed!" I won't point out the groups
    whose work I most admire, because that would make obvious the ones I don't
    (and some of these are the best [removed]); and modesty prevents saying much
    on our behalf (though I think some folks on this list have kind words to say
    about our work- as has Leonard Maltin).
    But the main point is: though it IS hard to get stations to commit to 30 or
    60 minutes of audio theater, and it is basically impossible to make money in
    the area, new radio theater is alive and very, very [removed]
    ..and can use your support!!!
    Best,
    Craig Wichman
    Quicksilver Radio Theater
    ([removed] shows available on [removed])

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2001 13:46:54 -0500
    From: Elizabeth McLeod <lizmcl@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject: Re: Early TV

    Nik Kierniesky observed:

>     First, no other country in the
>     post-war era had the powerful industry forces to move TV technology
>     quickly over radio, and to sell the public on it.  Thus other countries
>     continued stronger radio traditions.

    I think that in the immediate postwar era you'd be right about this --
    but don't forget that Great Britain was far ahead of the US in television
    development prior to the war. The BBC had been offering 30-line Baird
    process television on a regular basis as early as 1932, and
    all-electronic 405-line service was underway in 1936, continuing with
    regular programmming schedules up until the system was shut down by the
    war in 1939. Over the three years from 1936 to 1939, there were over ten
    thousand home sets in use in and around London, with several
    manufacturers offering them, and had the war not intervened the system
    would have expanded into other regions of Britain. The infrastructure
    remained in place thru the war, and operations resumed at the close of
    the war without missing a beat. This 405-line system was no primitive
    false start -- it wasn't until the 1980s that the final 405-line
    transmitter was shut down.

    Similarly, the BBC was years ahead of the US in the development of
    television programming techniques -- even its 30-line Baird process
    programs from the early thirties were polished and professional, at a
    time when experimenters in the US were happy if they could succeed in
    showing silhouettes. (An absolutely fascinating book on the development
    of television in Britain is "Restoring Baird's Image," by Donald F.
    MacLean. MacLean is a technical wizard who has succeeded in recovering
    actual 30-line television signals from home-recorded uncoated aluminum
    discs, and is probably the leading authority on the early years of
    television in the UK. His book is hard to get here in the US -- it's
    published by the British Institute of Electrical Engineers -- but is well
    worth seeking out. It's one of the most interesting books I've read this
    year.)

    Don also has a website -- [removed] -- where sample
    images recovered from the recordings may be viewed. Highly, highly
    recommended.

    Elizabeth

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2001 13:47:33 -0500
    From: "Owens Pomeroy" <opomeroy@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject: OPEN REEL TAPES: BETTERTHAN EVER

    In answer to the thread about the comparrison of open-reel vs. cassette/CD
    tapes, I would just like to say that I have open reel tapes that were
    recorded over 30 years ago on converted computer tapes(they were split from
    1/2" to 1/4" on a tape spliter), and from studio tapes that were used by the
    station where I had my show. These tapes with OTR programs recorded on them
    for broadcast on the show, air checks from the show, etc. were recently
    dubbed to cassettes, as our OTR Club was converting to an all-cassette Tape
    Library.  I had no idea at that time what condition they would be in.  The
    tape Librarian informed me that they were in very good shape (first & second
    generation dubbs), for as old as they were.  So I guess the only answer to
    deteration of open-reel tape recordings must be in the quality of the tape
    at the time of the recording (professional broadcast tapes and vintage
    computer tapes).  Netheir the Tape Librian or myself could  come up with any
    other explanation. Tapes that old, that have ben stored for quite some time,
    usually deteriate with the oxide flaking off.  This was not the case with
    mine.  Maybe someone else has had the same experience with computer and
    professional oen-reel tapes.

    Owens

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2001 13:47:42 -0500
    From: Harry Bartell <bartell@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject: Memory lapse

    Is there anyone present who can help me with a memory deficiency?

    Many years ago I did a number of radio shows with a young lady named
    Eleanor Tanin. I remember the name very well, but I can't place the
    face.  I have found biographical data in several places but no pictures.

    If anyone  knows where I can get a photographic jogger, I would really
    appreciate it if you would let me know [removed] and thank you!

    Harry Bartell

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2001 14:10:17 -0500
    From: lawrence albert <albertlarry@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject: New time radio drama

    An interesting question is raised by Carmelo
    Montalbano. Can new dramatic radio programming survive
    even if it has a station to play it? We all know that
    the CBS Radio Mystery Theatre aired for many years,
    1974 to 1982, however, that show along with the Zero
    Hour, The General Mills Radio Theatre and The Sears
    show all came about directly or indirectly because of
    the nostalgia craze of the period. Today, no such
    impetus exists.
         However,right now at least two series of
    commercially broadcast programs air weekly and have
    been doing so for some time successfully. The first is
    called "Adventures in Odes sey" which is produced by
    The Focus on the Family Group. This show is Christian
    based in its format and has been on the air since
    1985, I think. Many of OTR's best actors have done the
    show and continue to do it. Examples are Janet Waldo,
    Herb Ellis, Parley Baer and Alan Young. The program is
    syndicated and has a large fan base.
          The second program is "Imagination Theatre."
    This is an umbrella title covering an hour long format
    of detective, science fiction, thriller and an
    occasional western programs. Each hour is made up of
    two half hour stories most of which are written by Jim
    French. The series has been on the air on commercial
    stations for over five years now in syndication, and
    as is the case of Adventures in Odes sey shows no sign
    of ending. So to answer the original question, can new
    radio drama find an outlet and a listeners hip in
    todays commercial radio world? The answer is yes. If
    the product is of professional quality, if it is
    geared toward what the public wants ie: good stories,
    compelling characters, and if the marketing people
    know their jobs.
           Radio as we love it will never come back as in
    the "Golden Age", but it doesn't have to die out
    completely. What is needed are writers who understand
    the medium, professional actors who can overcome a
    weak script with talent, and producers willing to put
    up the money. A new time show, produced for commercial
    stations and under the current AFTRA contract cost
    less to produce than the first 30 seconds of any
    network prime time series.
       My knowledge is based on experience. For the last
    four years I have been involved in the day to day
    workings of producing new time radio. Oh and by the
    by, I agree with Elizabeth and Mr. Kallis about the
    demise of OTR.
                    Larry Albert

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2001 17:23:00 -0500
    From: "Lois Culver" <lois@[removed];
    To: "OTR Digest" <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject: Hollywood Theatre Group

    Don Fisher asks about some shows he has, titled "Hollywood Theatre Group"
    that stars Howard Culver, which aired some time in the 30's.

    Hollywood Theatre Group was a showcase which did weekly transcribed dramas
    over Hollywood Station KMTR in late 1939 or thereabouts.

    I have a newspaper clipping dated June 21st to June 27th, 1940, from The
    Radio and Screen Weekly, which shows that "16 shows have already been
    presented:  the first thirteen of a variety nature and the last three of
    action-packed famous trials of history.

    "Some of Hollywood's top names contributed their bit to the half hour
    platters  including Mae Murray, Bill Orr, Baby Peggy, etc.  The trial series
    are (sic) scheduled to continue.

    "Howard Culver, Group producer, plans a new "adventure in the future" series
    to start next month."

    I'm surprised that copies of this exist!

    Lois Culver
    KWLK Radio (Mutual) Longview, WA 1941-44
    KFI Radio (NBC) Los Angeles CA 1945-47, 50-53
    Widow of Howard Culver, actor

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2001 17:24:12 -0500
    From: "Donna Byrd" <dmb5@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject: Re: Record to cd a ?

    Hope someone will clarify

    I recently bought a new computer able to write digital files
    stored in the computer to a cd

    It has
    	a microphone jack which requires "a 1/8" ([removed]) mono mini-plug"
    microphone

    	a stereo line-in jack which allows the connection of "an external audio
    		source ...such as a audio cassette player" "The stereo
    line-jack
    		will not support an external microphone."

    Now, I also have a few Mark 56 (et al) phonograph records and some tapes
    which
    I would like to play on my car's cd (which does not have a tape deck). I
    assume
    the records are analog and the less than helpful information which came
    with the
    computer tells I can write a file in the computer onto a new cd, but does
    not
    suggest either a purpose for a mono microphone, or any way to make a
    digital file
    from an analog source.

    Anybody know what I'm supposed know/understand already?

    --- Donna Byrd
    --- dmb5@[removed]

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2001 18:55:22 -0500
    From: "Thomas Mason" <batz34@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject: Re tape and OTR

    Recording tape: boy, did it make a difference what brand you bought.
    When I was in college at UCLA in their Radio-TV division, I took  many radio
    courses and one was a production course where we produced radio shows with a
    historical theme that were distributed to public schools.  We did our own
    editing, at home usually on Wollensak machines.  My mother thought it would
    be a great gift for her to buy me raw stock on reels.  Well, she went to the
    old Radio Shack and bought a case of some gawd-awful house brand of theirs
    in a green and white box.  The stuff squealed going through the heads and
    had dropouts like crazy.  After that she just gave me money to buy Scotch.
    Likewise, later on at ABC Hlywd., we had all sorts of problems with video
    tape. Memorex was tried and discarded, we called the early Scotch tape
    "white box" and it flaked off the backing and clogged heads.  The studio
    finally went to Sony Tape as it was slightly abrasive and was good in the
    field with hand held cameras, as the abrasiveness tended to keep the
    recording heads clean.

    OTR, I loved it, and still do to this day.  I would listen to Tom Mix,
    Captain Midnight, Buck Rogers, Superman and all the other kids adventure
    shows in the afternoon.  After dinner the whole family would gather around
    the radio and listen to the evening shows with all the big stars of radio.
    The day my father brought home that 12 1/2 inch black and white Packard Bell
    TV signaled the death knell for radio.  It brought pictures as well as
    [removed] but its pictures could never match those in our imaginations.  In
    our mind's eye we had the image of what every actor should look like. How
    disappointing it was at times to see them on television, the face often did
    not match the voice.
    Talking to an old radio audio engineer, who had worked the original Buck
    Rogers radio shows in NY, I was amazed to find out that the sound of Buck's
    rocket ship was actually the recorded sound of a flushing toilet in the
    cavernous marble walled restroom at ABC radio headquarters.
    All going to prove that radio was indeed the "Theater of the Mind."

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2001 18:56:01 -0500
    From: JBeck57143@[removed]
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject: mp3 quality (or lack of quality)

    Joe Salerno wrote:
    "...I regard the digital revolution as one of the WORST things that could
    ever have happened to OTR. Poorly compressed shows distributed over the
    internet (and CDRs with hundreds of shows on a single disc) has contributed
    greatly to the loss of fidelity, exactly the opposite of what digital was
    supposed to do."

    I think the digital revolution is one of the best things to happen to OTR.
    Collecting shows on CDR in mp3 format is infinitey more practical and
    economical than regular Cds and cassettes.

    I have about about 7, 000 shows in mp3 format. (That would require an awful
    lot of cassettes and CDs, and would cost an enormous amount of money if they
    had to be bought.) Though I've only listened to a small number of them, the
    majority of what I've heard so far sounds very good. Some of the shows might
    sound better on regular CD or cassette, but a lot of the mp3s I've heard
    sound so good I can't imagine the quality being that much better on CD and
    cassette.

    Maybe the loss of quality due to compression is more of an issue with
    recordings that don't sound very good to begin with. A lot of the Easy Aces
    shows I have in mp3 format don't sound very good--on some of them it's hard
    to make out what's being said. Even if the quality isn't much better on CD
    and cassette, maybe it's at least easier to make out what's being said.

    I know there are a lot more shows on cassette and regular CDs than there are
    in mp3 format--but fortunately most of what I'm interested is available in
    mp3. If there's anything I'm really interested in that isn't, or that's only
    available in significantly better quality on tape or CD, than I'll get tapes
    or CDs of those shows.

    Jim Beck

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2001 21:48:07 -0500
    From: "J. Pope" <jpope101@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject: Jughead, live and in color

        Just thought I'd pass on some of the juicy tidbits we got from Hal
    Stone at the REPS meeting today.  First off, Jughead isn't as squeaky
    clean as we all thought - during the later years of 'Archie Andrews,' he
    and a few friends would spend the break between show's end and rehearsal
    for next week [removed] spaghetti joint and burlesque show.  There's
    one young life wasted, as Mr. Stone said.  However, redemption comes from
    the fact that his position while in the Air National Guard was (believe
    it or not): chaplain's assistant.  I'll let him explain that one ;)
        BTW, any reports of me performing as "Veronica Lodge" are greatly
    exaggerated.

    Jennifer

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2001 21:49:42 -0500
    From: "Joe Salerno" <sergei01@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject: sticky again

    Thus spake Henry Howard:

>     I am aware of no such massive "failure".
>     It is true that many many tapes using a new backing treatment
>     by Ampex and especially 3M developed what is known as
>     sticky tape syndrome, but if properly baked they definitely
>     were salvageable.   (Assuming they were not damaged prior
>     to baking.)

    Joe Salerno reply-eth: I don't think I've seen ANY reel of Ampex (and a
    great many of other brands) from the time period in question that hasn't
    suffered from sticky shed syndrome (SSS, or S3). I'd call that massive.
    Baking is not a fix. Baking will render a tape playable but the breakdown
    continues and the SSS reappears within about 2 weeks. In cases of severe
    SSS, the oxide may be stuck so tightly to adjacent layers of tape that
    un-spooling it will peel the oxide off the backing, causing irrepairable
    damage to the tape.

    There is no fool proof archving medium. Any not treated with respect can
    fail be it analog or digital. The worst part is one that fails as it sits on
    the shelf.

    Do you remember the first time you discovered a sticky tape? I do, what a
    terrible feeling that was.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2001 00:00:03 -0500
    From: "Edwin Ortiz" <eddieo396@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject: mp3 player

    Hi im looking for info on mp3 players that can play all bit rates of otr . I
    know rio volt cd player is good but im lookling for a mp3 player not cd
    player thanks for any help.

    --------------------------------
    End of [removed] Digest V2001 Issue #352
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