------------------------------
The Old-Time Radio Digest!
Volume 2002 : Issue 328
A Part of the [removed]!
ISSN: 1533-9289
Today's Topics:
Re: Lucky Strike candy cigarettes [ "Mary Anne Morel" <morel@planetmail ]
Re: Candice Bergen [ Joe Mackey <joemackey108@[removed] ]
King of the Royal Mounted [ "B. J. Watkins" <kinseyfan@hotmail. ]
Re: Burns and Allen [ Mike Thompson <mthomp86@[removed]; ]
Candice Bergen on OTR [ Kenneth Clarke <kclarke5@[removed]; ]
re: Today's SFX [ "Ryan Hall" <uncle_festor@[removed] ]
Jack Benny license [ Jim Widner <jwidner@[removed]; ]
Commercials [ dantrigg422@[removed] ]
Pet Brown Cow? [ Jim Byrd <byrd@[removed]; ]
Candice Bergen and OTR [ "Philip Chavin" <philchav@[removed] ]
Re: War of the Worlds Record [ Fred Berney <berney@[removed]; ]
Modern Sound Effects [ Henry Howard <hhoward@[removed] ]
RE: Lee's Question [ "" <cooldown3@[removed]; ]
"Once More Into The Breach, Dear Fri [ wich2@[removed] ]
MANTAN MORELAND [ PURKASZ@[removed] ]
deaths [ "B. J. Watkins" <kinseyfan@hotmail. ]
Re: WOTW Sources [ "Dave Walter" <fredallenfan@hotmail ]
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 18:04:24 -0400
From: "Mary Anne Morel" <morel@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Re: Lucky Strike candy cigarettes
Greetings!
Delurking long enough to comment on Elizabeth's latest interesting (aren't
they all?) letter re cigarette sales in the Forties. That started me thinking
about how my generation was set up to be the next generation
of smokers by buying realistic candy cigarettes (glowing red tip, etc.) in
colorful cigarette-sized packages. (Not only were we the next generation of
smokers, we were also walking advertisements for the weed.)
I distinctly remember "smoking" Lucky Strikes in the late forties as a
dissolute eight year old, but can't recall any other candy brand names,
except that there were others. Does anyone else remember these? Are they a
gimmick of the forties, or earlier than that? And were the names those of
genuine cigarette brands or just sound-alikes? I doubt if there are
statistics that show the popularity of the different candy brands among small
fry, but it would be interesting to know how big a part they played in luring
children into smoking the real thing.
Anyway, my first real cigarette was a Matinee (a very mild "ladies'" brand,
guaranteed to help you continue smoking). A non-smoker for many years now, I
have mixed feelings about those candy cigarettes and their unsubtle message.
However, at least there were no ashes, and you could eat the butts!
Cheers,
Mary Anne
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 18:24:11 -0400
From: Joe Mackey <joemackey108@[removed];
To: otr-net <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: Re: Candice Bergen
Ron Sayles wrote --
I have read in another source that she appeared on her father's show at
least once, maybe more. I have never seen this program listed anywhere. Is
it available?
I have a copy of one show she was on, a Christmas show from 12/25/55.
I have a copy of that in .mp3 if you would like it.
Joe
--
Visit my home page:
[removed]~[removed]
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 18:24:19 -0400
From: "B. J. Watkins" <kinseyfan@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: King of the Royal Mounted
Does anyone know who played Sgt. King in the two 15-minute audition shows of
KING OF THE ROYAL MOUNTED? And what is the date of the half hour show
starring Richard Dix? Do you have any other information on this series?
Thanks,
Barbara
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 19:12:08 -0400
From: Mike Thompson <mthomp86@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Re: Burns and Allen
I have a question about george burns and gracie
allen on the radio
I want to know when they stopped doing their
vaudeville routine on their
radio show and started doing the husband wife shtick
i know that it was post-vote for gracie era
but i would like to know in order to
make sure that my collection is as complete as
possible and I do NOT want to
include the era when they were the flirtatious
boyfriend and girlfriend and
started being the loving couple that really defined
their show
I believe they started doing their husband-and-wife
stuff in 1942, due to falling ratings. I'm with you; I
wouldn't recommend the pre-'42 episodes either.
Listening to George and Gracie pretending not to be
husband and wife is just too odd for me. Moreover, the
shows just aren't funny. They're poorly written and
the supporting characters are one-dimensional. The
running gags (such as Senor Lee) grow tiresome, the
jokes are predictable. What makes the whole thing even
worse is that every time George or Gracie or somebody
references a current event the audience bursts out in
applause. I just really don't care for the pre-sitcom
style shows.
Mike
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 19:29:02 -0400
From: Kenneth Clarke <kclarke5@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Candice Bergen on OTR
I have a tape of 9 year old Candice Bergen and Charlie
McCarthy reciting their own "unique" version of "Twas The
Night Before Christmas". It's tape # is 2213 and the date of the
program is 12-25-55. It is available through Radio Spirits
I also have a tape of her appearance on "You Bet Your Life" which
was mentioned in an earlier mailing list.
Both are very good.
Kenneth Clarke
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 19:30:08 -0400
From: "Ryan Hall" <uncle_festor@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: re: Today's SFX
Well, having for years done some time radio dramatizations (in college and
what not) in the OTR style, I feel I can comment on this subject with some
authority. Yes, there is a great temptation to used high tech sound effects
(canned sound, as it were). Although, as a radio purist, I never allow these
canned effects in anything I direct if at all possible. Sometimes there is
just a sound that we can't generate on our own in our poorly equiped studio
like a car engine, etc., but I always make sure that if we have to use
canned SFX, then its something that we recorded ourselves (both for legal
reasons and its also more fun to take a pocket recorder out into the field
and record it ourselves.) As a trivial anecdote, we needed a tolling church
bell for our rendition of A Christmas Carol, so we went to the huge
cathedral in town and got the sexton's permission to ring the bells. Being
the middle of the business day, the local office workers must have thought
the church was nuts tolls those bells at 11:24 for no apparent reason.
And, being a student of OTR and a big fan since I was very little (way back
in the Reagan 80s), a lot of Modern Audio Dramatization (MAD, an appropriate
acronym) is very high tech, and sounds rather sterile. As in present
Hollywood movies, they tend to want to put the special effects in the
forefront, either because its "cool" and/or else to mask the fact that the
acting is so horribly mediocre at best. Thusly, they end up selling the soul
of the movie for a few bucks profit.
I think the biggest issue confronting MAD is the loss of [removed]
the art of sound and distances. So many times nowadays, the actors just read
into the microphone and their is no illusion of realtime physics, if you
will. I am not certain whether I make myself clear on this point, but there
is a definite difference in volume and pitch of voices from, say, 2 people
within a few feet of each other talking, as opposed to two people 30 feet
apart talking. Also, whether the conversation in indoors in a confined space
or outdoors, etc. In real life, all these scenarios sound different. In
modern audio drama, the temptation is to simply have the actors read the
same way, regardless of the scenario they are portraying, and let the sound
effects tell the story. This is why MAD irks so many OTR fans, and sounds
sort of funny in an odd way, like it just does not sound natural. And if we
have ever learned anything from both screen and radio, all good movies/radio
dramas are good, not because of the glitter of special effects and
peripherals, but because it tells a good story. Case in point, the movie
"Harvey" was phenomenal, and they spent virtually nothing on special
effects. If they were to remake it today, special effects would run amuck
trying to portray the rabbit in clever and concealed ways, thus removing
from the story that which was the most crucial, its minimalist element.
Yes, there are people born after 1980 that can write and speak
[removed]
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 20:44:22 -0400
From: Jim Widner <jwidner@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Jack Benny license
Jim Beck comments and asks:
It'd be interesting to see what shows they have. They have Jack Benny
programs, but I thought Radio Spirits now has the exclusive rights to
distribute those. They also have Suspense, which a few other companies also
sell.
Jim, the WGOTRS is a marketing program from Radio Spirits. This is why they
are selling the Jack Benny's unchallenged. I expect that most of the Radio
Spirits library will be available to the program, though I also suspect it
is primarily a means to sell their single cassettes. You probably won't
see any cross-marketing - that is, a special at RS will also not be at WGOTRS.
Jim Widner
jwidner@[removed]
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 20:45:23 -0400
From: dantrigg422@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Commercials
X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative
X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain
I would like to say that I enjoy the OTR commercials as much as the shows. Ma
Perkins "Oxyadal", Dragnets "Fatima" cigarettes. It gives me a picture of
what life was like during this era. This is history, this is why I love OTR.
Sincerely,
Dan
*** This message was altered by the server, and may not appear ***
*** as the sender intended. ***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 20:45:32 -0400
From: Jim Byrd <byrd@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Pet Brown Cow?
In 1951 or 1952, I remember hearing a radio program which started with
something about "Pet Brown Cow" (the sponsor was Pet Milk), and I believe
had a sound effect of a castle lowering a drawbridge. I couldn't tell you
more specifically, I was very small at the time (not yet in school).
Does anyone know what radio program that was?
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 20:45:15 -0400
From: "Philip Chavin" <philchav@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Candice Bergen and OTR
Ron Sayles asks if any recording is available of Candice Bergen
appearing on her dad's radio program.
I was in the studio audience during the taping ([removed], 1952)
of the Bergen and McCarthy Show (or whatever its exact title was then)
on which "Candy" Bergen, age 6, made her radio debut. Another guest on that
show was Mimi Benzell. It was broadcast on Dec. 21, 1952, according to my
notes. (In which case it was probably a Christmas show -I can't recall).
I've been trying for years to find a recording of that broadcast. In her
book "Knock Wood" Ms. Bergen mentions that radio debut (in [removed]). I sent
an email to her months ago re a recording (via her agent or fan club or ??);
no reply.
Does anyone know of the existence of a recording of that broadcast?
I think she appeared again on her dad's radio show after 1952 and there
may be a recording of one of those later shows in circulation, I don't know
at this writing.
-- Phil C.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 21:06:07 -0400
From: Fred Berney <berney@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Re: War of the Worlds Record
Back in 1960, I was working at a radio station and one of the DJ gave me an
LP record of War of the Worlds. It was on a Columbia (what else) label. It
had some light scratches, but for the most part was in good condition.
I was able to make a copy of the record at the station on their equipment.
So the tape ended up being recorded at 7 1/2 ips. This is the tape I then
used when I put the show in my catalog.
I have no idea what others have used.
Fred
[removed]
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 22:20:53 -0400
From: Henry Howard <hhoward@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Modern Sound Effects
Clif Martin must not be aware that a lot of the old time radio techniques
for producing sound effects are still used in modern productions.
The terms used may be different, as well as the quality of the equipment
used to record them.
I would suggest that you look at some of the pictures here:
[removed]
and identify who these old geasers are.
On the other hand, you will have to come join the modern producers
to have your discussion, because it will be out of place in the otr
digest. But you are welcome to come. You might learn something.
See: [removed] bottom of page,
for more discussion options.
Henry Howard
radiodrama digest moderator
[removed]
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 22:21:04 -0400
From: "" <cooldown3@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: RE: Lee's Question
Lee Wrote - "Now, what's the slogan, and more important the product and
maker's name? "
Was that the Copoper tire compant? The slogan being "Time to Retire?
Patrick
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 23:46:19 -0400
From: wich2@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: "Once More Into The Breach, Dear Friends!",
OR , as long as humans have ears audio drama can work!
From: StevenL751@[removed]
(First, qouting Michael Scott:)
I and the OTR community are waiting for someone to have the guts to produce
OTR type radio but with some of today's sound effects. I guess there's no
producer out there with the brains and guts to try it.
Michael, have you looked (or should it be "listened"?) As Larry Albert was
first to point out, there sure as hell are folks sticking their necks (AND
POCKETBOOKS!) out and giving it a try!
On the contrary, there are plenty of producers out there today who are
creating imaginative and entertaining "radio" dramas. Producers like Tom
Lopez (ZBS Foundation), Henry Howard (Atlanta Radio Theatre Company), and
Craig Wichman (Quicksilver Radio Theatre), just to name a few.
Sincere thanks, Steven; that is very much appreciated. As I hope some
listeners on this list would attest, we work our hearts out.
Joel Pierson (Mind's Ear Audio Theater) recently produced a very funny
10-part series
called "The Dante Experience", which Max Schmid just started broadcasting
on his Monday night show on WBAI.
And, in addition to the producers mentioned (and others), broadcasters such
as (Saint) Max, and Barbara Watkins, have earned the thanks of everyone on
this list, with their unstinting support of this great medium- both classic &
contemporary versions. And then, there are the distributors of recordings:
LodesTone and The SciFi Guy are two good sources of NTR.
Even my own Gotham Radio Players have produced a number of original audio
dramas.
Indeed. As I can personally attest, you would have to search far & wide to
find more loving recreations of OTR shows (some, lost!) than those done by
Steve & his group!
The trick producers of audio drama face today is getting their work heard.
It's rare that most of these shows will be heard on air.
AMEN, brother! Michael, & folks, if you want the work to be done, help create
a demand! Tell local community stations, NPR, WorldSpace, XM Radio, et al.
that YOU WANT TO HEAR IT! We producers are out there fulfilling our part of
the bargain (just like the old days, in a wide variety of types- and,
granted, qualities!). Do YOUR part- if your professed love of the artform is
[removed]
Best,
Craig Wichman
Quicksilver Radio Theater
[removed] Clif Martin? Respond to me off-list, and I'll take your challenge, &
try to rebutt your prejudice against all modern endeavors
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 23:47:17 -0400
From: PURKASZ@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: MANTAN MORELAND
Martin Grams's letter mentioning Mantan Moreland made me smile, then I
had a brain-shudder [removed] memory, long lost, came back to me clear as the
hot summer night it is now and was then.
It was the heat of summer Hollywood, 1971. I had just arrived and was
doing a few gigs at Universal to make the rent.
I was living in the attic of an old house off Vermont near Fountain, very
close actually to the original pad of Lon Chaney, Sr.
Finances made it impossible for me to buy a 'real' car and I had noticed
the climate had kept many an old ride in good shape so I dropped $500 and
drove a 1941 Packard 120 off the lot in Studio City.
She was two-tone gray and rode like a yacht. In fact you could not hear
the engine. I was delighted. Turned a few babes eyes too!
On a very warm night in June, shortly thereafter, I drove my laundry over
to the local Laundromat, loaded it up and sat with my book.
A young black man came in and asked who owned the 'fine Packard' ride
outside. Since I was the only guy in there, the question seemed academic and
designed to allow the speaker the joy of saying "Packard ride."
I allowed it was mine and after a few moments I realized he was very
knowledgeable about the car. Seems his Uncle had one when they were brand new
and he would ride around as a child. His memories seemed to stir genuine
delight in him.
He mentioned his uncle was still alive and in fact they lived just three
blocks away and how wonderful it would be if we could drive by and show him
the car.
I was about to hesitate back into my book when he said,
"You might know him," he said. "He used to be in movies. His name is
Mantan Moreland."
I couldn't get into the car fast enough.
Forgetting my laundry, we sped down the street and within minutes, I
pulled a real Packard 'glide' up to the little house he pointed out. There
was an elderly gent sitting on the stairs outside, sipping a drink and wiping
his brow.
We walked up and the young man, well he was actually my age, introduced
us.
I recognized the big-eyed smile and the voice took me way back into the
dark seats of the Palace movie house when I was a boy watching all the
serials.
We talked about that era, he seemed surprised I knew as much as I did
about the old movies, they were not quite in vogue then, it was 1971 and for
me, the world was young and old at the same time.
The evening was so warm I asked if maybe we should all take a spin up to
the Griffith Observatory which was nearby and up the hill which would be a
cooling thing to do.
I asked if he wanted to drive and he almost lit up and into the seat but
I saw he was so infirm in his gait that his hesitation allowed me to ask if I
might play the part his chauffeur.
The radio blared some good jazz and we cruised around the back streets of
old Hollywood on a magical night.
I thought I would never forget that [removed] I did.
Until Martin's letter came along.
This is what we must do for each other. Remember.
Forgot my laundry though. Place was closed.
Got it the next day but could never find that house again.
The laundry experience was never the same either.
Two years later, in 1973, I read in Variety that he had passed.
But just for now, while writing this, we were all together again.
Thanks Martin.
<A HREF="[removed],+Michael+C.">Michael
C. Gwynne</A>
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 23:47:41 -0400
From: "B. J. Watkins" <kinseyfan@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: deaths
We've lost two more actors from the golden age of radio: Norm Jolley (SPACE
PATROL) passed away on Tuesday, August 13th. He was 86.
Jeff Corey died Friday, August 16. He was 88.
Barbara
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 23:48:40 -0400
From: "Dave Walter" <fredallenfan@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Re: WOTW Sources
Elizabeth McLeod <lizmcl@[removed]; writes:
There are other LP versions besides the authorized Manheim Fox releases
-- the first version issued came out on the Audio Rarities label in 1955,
but was of very poor quality and was not complete. Avoid this one unless
you're a manic WOTW collector -- it's interesting to own as a curiosity,
but it's really not worth listening to.
Agreed. I once came across a copy of that one, and was annoyed that, in
addition to the muffled sound quality, it didn't even include the opening
and closing "tag" portions of the broadcast with Dan Seymour's announcing.
However, for completists, it is the only issue I've ever found that doesn't
have the brief speech overlap detectable in the Manheim Fox-derived editions
as the Carl Phillips character describes the Martians emerging from the
cylinder. Perhaps not-so-ironically (considering the later legal hassles
between Orson Welles and Howard Koch), when Welles, Paul Stewart and company
discuss the broadcast in Welles' film "F For Fake," it is the cover of the
Audio Rarities edition - NOT the Evolution/Longines edition - that appears
as an artifact, and the "clips" from the "drama" that we here are actually
burlesques concocted by Welles and editor Gary Graver and voiced by Graver.
I should also add that, about twelve years back, there was a full-page
auction ad in one of the record collecting papers of the day (could've been
Goldmine, could've been DISCoveries, don't recall exactly which) announcing
the pending auction of a set of WOTW discs allegedly recorded from the
network line at a CBS affiliate in Kansas, and I recall the text implying
that these discs were the sources of at least one of the long-play album
editions. Perhaps these are the discs Elizabeth refers to at the beginning
of her post.
--------------------------------
End of [removed] Digest V2002 Issue #328
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