Subject: [removed] Digest V2001 #415
From: "OldRadio Mailing Lists" <[removed]@[removed];
Date: 12/31/2001 4:08 PM

To: <[removed]@[removed];

    ------------------------------

                                The Old-Time Radio Digest!
                                  Volume 2001 : Issue 415
                             A Part of the [removed]!
                                     ISSN: 1533-9289

                                     Today's Topics:

      The kindly old investigator           [ otrbuff@[removed] ]
      King Kong                             [ "Arthur Lortie" <alortie@[removed]; ]
      Ted Malone                            [ "Ted Kneebone" <tkneebone1@[removed] ]
      Re: Andy's Middle Name                [ Elizabeth McLeod <lizmcl@[removed] ]
      Born to Play the Role                 [ Clifengr3@[removed] ]
      Syndicated Big Sister                 [ chris chandler <chrischandler84@yah ]
      Re: Decon History Revisited           [ Elizabeth McLeod <lizmcl@[removed] ]
      Copyright                             [ "George Tirebiter" <tirebiter2@hotm ]
      Re: born to play the role & status o  [ SanctumOTR@[removed] ]
      Right Cross                           [ "Harold Zeigler" <hzeigler@charter- ]
      The Greatest Gift--a copyright licen  [ Michael Biel <mbiel@[removed]; ]
      copyrights, otherwise and OTR         [ "Dave Walter" <fredallenfan@hotmail ]
      Cleveland and broadcasting            [ "Mark Kinsler" <kinsler33@[removed] ]

    ------------------------------

    Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 11:59:33 -0500
    From: otrbuff@[removed]
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject: The kindly old investigator

    I'm anxiously trying to locate some specific episodes of Mr. Keen, Tracer
    of Lost Person.  Would you collectors who own Mr. Keen please take a look
    and see if you have one or more of the following and would be willing to
    work with me on a purchase or rental agreement for use in OTR research?
    I'd be so highly gratified by any help anyone could offer.  All episodes
    listed are 30 minutes except as noted.  On some lists, dates do not
    correspond precisely.

    May 29, 1940 - The Case of the Woman Who Wasn't Needed, first part (15
    min.)
    June 5, 1940 - The Case of the Woman Who Wasn't Needed, final part (15
    min.)
    June 6, 1940 - The Case of the Vanishing Bride (15 min.)
    June 11, 1940 - The Case of the Young Husband  (15 min.)
    May 13, 1941 - The Case of the Missing Doll (15 min.)
    April 15, 1942 - The Case of Murder and the Night Club Singer (15 min.)
    Jan. 27, 1944 - The Case of the Man Who Didn't Come Home
    March 2, 1944 - The Case of the Lady Who Didn't Want to be Found
    March 23, 1944 - The Case of the Room That Vanished
    April 20, 1944 - The Case of the Little Black Book
    June 22, 1944 - The Case of the Hidden Motive
    Nov. 23, 1944 - The Case of the ?
    Dec. 14, 1944 - The Case of the ?
    May 30, 1946 - The Case of the Golden Scorpion
    June 16, 1949 - The Case of Death in the Park
    Oct. 20, 1949 - The Martin Street Murder Case
    Nov. 17, 1949 - The Concrete Cellar Murder Case
    March 23, 1950 - The Yellow Parrot Murder Case
    June 15, 1950 - The Amusement Park Murder Case
    April 17, 1952 - The Apple Orchard Murder Case
    Dec. 13, 1952 - The Famous Actress Murder Case
    March 1, 1955 - The Case of Murder and the Omen of Death

    In addition, I'm on a major search for Mr. Keen scripts, both for
    existing shows on record, and in particular for shows for which no extant
    recordings are known to exist.  I'd appreciate any help.  I'm already in
    touch with the Library of Congress, incidentally.

    Thanks for any contributions you can make to future OTR research.  Your
    help will be important to the task, even if you think it might be
    insignificant.  Kindly contact me directly as soon as you can.

    Jim Cox
    otrbuff@[removed]

    ------------------------------

    Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 12:01:21 -0500
    From: "Arthur Lortie" <alortie@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject: King Kong

    I've just been told about this:

    King Kong 02/10/1933 NBC [ad for movie] 30 minutes

    Does anyone know if it exists? Or have it on mp3 and / or cassette?

    Thanks in advance

    Arthur Lortie

    ------------------------------

    Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 12:04:48 -0500
    From: "Ted Kneebone" <tkneebone1@[removed];
    To: "Old Time Radio Digest" <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject: Ted Malone

    Neal has asked about Ted Malone.  I do recall hearing his programs as a
    child and teenager (I'm 67).  He did have a very relaxing voice and was a
    good storyteller.  I have two of his broadcasts, but according to the new
    Hickerson, there are some others out there.

    As long as I am mentioning Jay Hickerson's 2nd edition of the Ultimate guide
    [removed] (and all the rest), I just received my copy of this 2001 book.  Anyone
    who seriously collects old and new time radio should have this volume in
    their book collection.  This is where you find "the facts" about old time
    radio programs.  Title, dates the show ran, some of the main performers,
    networks, theme song, how many shows are in circulation, and who has these
    shows for sale or trade.  The trader needs to know that even tho Jay lists
    total shows, not all of them have been located, so he tells how many have
    been located, as of October 1, 2001.  And he publishes an annual supplement
    to keep collectors up to date.
        Contact Jay for purchase information.  No, I don't get paid for this
    plug!  His email address is:   JayHick@[removed]

    Ted Kneebone
    1528 S. Grant St., Aberdeen, SD 57401 / 605-226-3344
    OTR:  [removed]

    ------------------------------

    Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 12:14:26 -0500
    From: Elizabeth McLeod <lizmcl@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject: Re: Andy's Middle Name

    On 12/31/01 11:07 AM OldRadio Mailing Lists wrote:

>     Kenneth Clark gave Andy of "Amos 'n' Andy" a middle name of Hogg. Wasn't his
>     middle name HALT?

    Actually, Andy didn't have a real middle name at all. He first used the
    "H" initial in episode 410 (7/16/29) while testifying in the case of The
    People of the State of Illinois vs. Amos Jones. While under oath, Andy
    acknowledged that he just added the "H" on his own to make his name sound
    fancier, and it doesn't really stand for anything. In episode 637
    (4/5/30) Andy reiterates that he has no middle name, and tells a census
    enumerator to put down "M" as his middle initial. (We also learn in this
    scene that Andy was born in 1894, that his father was from Mississippi,
    and that he is a World War One veteran.)

    The first reference to "Hog" comes in episode 932 (3/19/31), where Andy
    is trying to exploit his recent notoriety stemming from the
    breach-of-promise case by writing a serialized autobiography for a
    newspaper syndicate. In this autobiography, Andy reverts to using "H" as
    his middle initial, and claims that during his younger years down in
    Georgia, he  was in charge of the hogs on the farm where he worked, and
    was on such friendly terms with them that instead of him calling the
    hogs, the hogs would call him -- and in honor of those hogs, he adopted
    "H." as his middle initial. As Andy reads this article aloud, Amos
    comments sarcastically that Andrew "Hog" Brown would be a good name for
    him.

>     >From that point forward, Andy consistently gave his full name as "Andrew

    H. Brown," and by the end of the 1930s, Andrew "Hogg" Brown had become
    established as one of his nicknames -- appearing in print for the first
    time on the novelty "Missing" handbills distributed by CBS in June of
    1939 to publicize a storyline in which Andy was missing and presumed
    kidnaped.

    "Halt" has appeared in some OTR histories, but has no support in the
    actual programs -- it's apparently based on a mishearing of "Hogg".

    Elizabeth

    ------------------------------

    Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 12:51:37 -0500
    From: Clifengr3@[removed]
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject: Born to Play the Role

    My votes go for:

    Phil Harris as hisself
    Elliot Lewis as Frankie Remley

    Jim Yellen

    ------------------------------

    Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 13:15:55 -0500
    From: chris chandler <chrischandler84@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject: Syndicated Big Sister

    Dave DeSisto [removed]

> >     I didn't see anything mentioned about the Big Sister
> >     series airing around the mid 60's.  I know I used to
> >     listen to it on WXKW - 1600 AM in Troy, NY,
> >     a 500 watt daytime station.

    It seems unlikely these were produced this
    late--there's no middle commercial, among other
    things, but it's possible.

    The Big Sister run was obviously produced concurrently
    with the surviving syndicated run of Pepper Young's
    Family episodes.  There are similar in style, and most
    importantly, both feature large changes in cast and
    production technique starting at the episodes marked
    "#26":  some actors are replaced, and it's NOT an
    improvement (particularly in the case of "Pepper
    Young's" Peggy), and the live organ themes are
    replaced by godawful canned bridges.

    What's weirdest about the material, though, is this:
    the Pepper Young run seems to be using the scripts
    from the very beginning of the series' network
    run--Peggy has just met Carter, etc; however, the Big
    Sister material is using scripts from the early-to-mid
    1940s--Ruth and John are married, with a young son,
    and John's already had plenty of time to stage one of
    his frequent flights from home and hearth.

    I have also wondered about the source of this
    syndicated run of Big Sister/Pepper Young
    material--where it came from, when, why, etc.  Any of
    the soap experts on the list have any info??

    Chris

    ------------------------------

    Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 13:35:44 -0500
    From: Elizabeth McLeod <lizmcl@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject: Re: Decon History Revisited

    A. Joseph Ross wonders,

>     Just what, exactly, is the "deconstructionist approach" to cultural
>     history -- or to any history, for that matter?

    Deconstructionist historians contend that historical events must be
    "deconstructed" into  contradictory interpretations the same way as
    literary texts, and therefore any  interpretation one chooses to impose
    on an event is as valid as any other, regardless of whether such an
    interpretation might have actually occured to the people living in the
    era of the event itself. The recently-discussed "Jack and Rochester are
    Gay" trope is the classic OTR example.

    This school is the opposite of what I consider the "journalistic"
    approach to history -- the effort to document, as accurately and as
    factually as possible the events which actually occured and the manner in
    which they were viewed by the people of that time.  Deconstructionist
    historians commonly fall victim to the fallacy of "presentism," the
    application of current ideals and standards to historical figures and
    events.

    In very general terms, a journalistic historian is more concerned with
    the documentation of facts and a deconstructionist is more concerned with
    sociopolitical interpretation outside the boundaries of traditional
    historical context. It's possible for both of these schools to be
    combined in a single work, but generally you can tell in which direction
    an author leans after reading a chapter or two.

    Elizabeth

    ------------------------------

    Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 13:36:39 -0500
    From: "George Tirebiter" <tirebiter2@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject: Copyright

    Hello All,

    A. Joseph Ross wrote:

>     The movie "It's a Wonderful Life" is not an example of a work going
>     "back" under copyright.  I don't recall all the details (I'm sure someone
>     around here does and will fill us in), but the film was thought to be in
>     the public domain for some time, and most of it was.  But someone, if I
>     recall correctly, realized they still owned rights to the music, which
>     was not in the public domain, and that's how the film was brought back
>     under control.  The portions of the film which were in the public domain
>     still are, but the film can't be shown without the parts that are still
>     copyrighted.  It wasn't that those parts ever weren't under copyright,
>     just that the copyright holders didn't realize they had the rights.

    As I recall there were valid copyrights on both the music and the original
    short story on which the film was based.  So I don't think you could simply
    show the movie with the music deleted or replaced because the story is
    copyrighted as well.

    There are literally thousands of movies that are not in copyright.  Some are
    silent films on which any valid copyright would have expired, but many are
    films from the sound era on which the copyright was not renewed.  Most are
    low budget affairs produced by independent producers or the old "Poverty
    Row" studios (Monogram, PRC etc.) of Hollywood. There are a number of video
    dealers that specialize in this stuff.  I suppose if someone was willing to
    put the time and effort into it some sort of valid copyright could be
    established on a lot of this material, but wouldn't be worth the effort in
    most cases.

    George

    ------------------------------

    Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 15:11:59 -0500
    From: SanctumOTR@[removed]
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject: Re: born to play the role & status of SFX

    artists in late 50s-early  60s
    Approved: ctrn4eeWlc

    In a message dated 12/31/01 11:04:29 AM, Joe Salerno writes:

>     Jackson Beck - announcer for Superman
>     Fred Foy - announcer for the Lone Ranger

>     Could you imagine any other voice in these rolls?

>     You don't have to - the pre-Foy eps had another man, I don't know his name,
>     but he certainly didn't have a voice like Fred.  Of all the LR narrators,
>     only Beamer himself could come close

    ***There were a number of announcers who preceded Fred Foy ("the fiery
    announcer with a voice of might"), and I don't feel that even Beemer came
    close to Foy's rendition.   Actually, I think the next-best rendition came
    during the first television season when Gerald Mohr narrated the series and
    did the famous opening.  He's not as good as Foy, certainly, but he's better
    than any of the other radio announcers (or even William Conrad in the 1980s
    TV cartoons).***

    And Eric Cooper asks:

>     In the period between 1956 and 1962, were radio people--actors/actresses,
>     writers, directors, producers, sound effects people looked down upon
>     at all because they were STILL doing radio? When exactly did radio start
>     become a "has-been" or "also-ran" within the entertainment business?

    ***Well, lots of radio performers were already moving into television by that
    time, especially sound effects artists and engineers who were network staff
    employees and were shifted over to do sound work for video series.  For
    example, Ray Erlenborn worked on Jack Benny's TV shows and worked for 8 years
    on Red Skelton's television shows (and later on SONNY & CHER and other
    series.  Ed Blainley and Terry Ross provided sound effects on ABC's final
    season of THE ADVENTURES OF SUPERMAN and later worked together on
    television's DARK SHADOWS (which Ross pointed out had almost as many sound
    effects as a radio mystery program and often required two SFX artists).  And
    of course, lots of radio actors and actresses ended up in television,
    especially in live soap operas.  (And of course, the casts of TOM CORBETT and
    SPACE PATROL did double duty, starring concurrently in both radio and TV
    versions, and then there were the radio voice actors like Mel Blanc and JUne
    Foray who moved to TV cartoons.)  Most of the cast of radio's PERRY MASON
    moved to television in THE EDGE OF NIGHT, while Dwight Weist did the early
    newscasts on WOR-TV.  And of course William Conrad was already working in
    films and TV while GUNSMOKE was still on the air (as narrator of ROCKY &
    BULLWINKLE and later THE FUGITIVE, THE INVADERS and BUCK ROGERS and director
    and/or producer of 77 SUNSET STRIP, NAKED CITY and BAT MASTERSON). --Anthony
    Tollin***

    ------------------------------

    Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 15:15:53 -0500
    From: "Harold Zeigler" <hzeigler@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject: Right Cross

    	Hi Anybody,
        I don't know where you can get a copy of  "Right Cross" from radio but
    TMC will show the movie next Tuesday morning (01/07/02) at 03:30 [removed]  It
    dates the film as from 1950.
         It seems strange to the year 02 so soon . How time flies.
        				Till Next Time,Harold
    		[removed]
    		HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!!

    ------------------------------

    Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 15:15:39 -0500
    From: Michael Biel <mbiel@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject: The Greatest Gift--a copyright license!!

    From: Joe Mackey <joemackey108@[removed];

> >     The original song is now, in fact, a copyrighted piece of music,
> >     though it wasnít at the time.

    From: "A. Joseph Ross" <lawyer@[removed];

>     How is this possible?  Once anything is in the public domain,
>     it can't go back under copyright.

    Check the copyright law again.  It's been changed perhaps several times
    since you might have last perused it.  There is such a thing as
    recovered or recaptured copyright, although many of these have to do
    with foreign registrations and international treaties.

>     The movie "It's a Wonderful Life" is not an example of a work going
>     "back" under copyright.  I don't recall all the details (I'm sure
>     someone around here does and will fill us in), but the film was
>     thought to be in the public domain for some time, and most of it was.
>     But someone, if I recall correctly, realized they still owned rights
>     to the music, which was not in the public domain, and that's how the
>     film was brought back under control.

    I am surprised that I have not been able to find a web source with the
    details, but I believe the music had absolutely nothing to do with it.
    It was the underlying magazine short-story the film was based on, "The
    Greatest Gift" by Philip Van Doren Stern.   From what I remember, Stern
    had died during the initial 28 year copyright term and his estate
    renewed the story's copyright for another 28.  Because this second term
    was still in force when the 1976 law went into effect, the copyright
    term then became the life-of-the-author-plus-50 years.  It is now
    (thanks to Sonny Bono's skiing skills) life-plus-70 years.  Because an
    option in the law apparently allows heirs to renegotiate assignable
    rights in the second term if the authors had died during the first term,
    the heirs to the writer reassigned the film rights to the story to Frank
    Capra, Jr.  The closest I've been able to come to the details is a
    posting at [removed]
    Looking thru the on-line copyright registry, it is interesting to note
    that the Marlo Thomas version, "It Happened One Christmas" does not
    mention the Capra film at all, but is apparently licensed directly by
    the Stern heirs.  Quite possibly it is this fact that gave Capra, Jr.
    the idea that he could also license the film rights and recapture the
    rights to his father's film.  If anybody unauthorized shows or
    duplicates the film at that point, they are violating STERN'S rights, as
    well as Capra's.

>     The portions of the film which were in the public domain still are,
>     but the film can't be shown without the parts that are still
>     copyrighted.  It wasn't that those parts ever weren't under copyright,
>     just that the copyright holders didn't realize they had the rights.

    Nothing based on the story can be produced without licensing from the
    Stern heirs. Since the entire film is based on this story, NOTHING from
    the film can be shown without licensing from the Stern heirs.  And they
    aren't licensing anybody except Capra, Jr. (and he in turn is licensing
    Republic Films who held the original negative.)

    If somebody has authoritative details and can cite the source, please
    pass them on.

    Michael Biel  mbiel@[removed]

    ------------------------------

    Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 17:55:27 -0500
    From: "Dave Walter" <fredallenfan@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject: copyrights, otherwise and OTR

    "A. Joseph Ross" <lawyer@[removed]; quotes Joe Mackey
    <joemackey108@[removed]; and responds:

> >     The original song is now, in fact, a copyrighted piece of music, though
> >     it wasnít at the time.

>     How is this possible?  Once anything is in the public domain, it can't go
>     back under copyright.  The tune, at least, is and has been under
>     copyright belonging to the heirs of the two women who wrote the song
>     (originally "Good Morning to You").

    This was also my understanding of the situation. I recall this was also the
    general basis of a gag in a magazine (National Lampoon?) about twenty years
    ago in which, in a "This day in history" spoof column, it was "noted" that,
    upon the 1956 release of Elvis Presley's "Love me tender," several schools
    were supposed to have sued him because the melody was supposed to have been
    taken from their respective schools' anthem (which, in turn, would have been
    based on "Aura Lee," wouldn't they?).

>     The movie "It's a Wonderful Life" is not an example of a work going
>     "back" under copyright.  I don't recall all the details (I'm sure someone
>     around here does and will fill us in), but the film was thought to be in
>     the public domain for some time, and most of it was.  But someone, if I
>     recall correctly, realized they still owned rights to the music, which
>     was not in the public domain, and that's how the film was brought back
>     under control.  The portions of the film which were in the public domain
>     still are, but the film can't be shown without the parts that are still
>     copyrighted.  It wasn't that those parts ever weren't under copyright,
>     just that the copyright holders didn't realize they had the rights.

    I believe it was the copyrights to the music and the story "The Greatest
    Gift" that had been acquired by Republic Pictures to bring IT'S A WONDERFUL
    LIFE under its control. This basic principle was also used by Michael
    Jackson to take a mail-order edition of THE BEATLES AT SHEA STADIUM off the
    commercial market once he acquired the rights to the Northern Songs
    publishing catalogue (which contains most of John Lennon and Paul
    McCartney's Beatles-era compositions).

    An additional wrinkle in the issue concerns NIGHT OF THE LIVING DEAD, and I
    suspect this would in turn apply to most OTR recordings. As I recall that
    mess, George Romero's Image 10 company had originally copyrighted that film
    under another title (I want to say NIGHT OF THE FLESH EATERS) but the Walter
    Reade Organization, which distributed the film during its first theatrical
    run, had changed the title to NIGHT OF THE LIVING DEAD, and in the process
    of imposing their title on the release prints of the film Reade removed the
    copyright statement (which Romero had applied underneath the original title
    super) and never reinserted it. As a result, after Reade went bankrupt
    within a couple of years of the theatrical release, hundreds of bootleg
    prints began popping up, with the bootleggers apparently beyond any legal
    recourse Image 10 would have had under the law at the time. Of course, since
    most OTR programs don't have copyright statements during the shows
    themselves, that's the same basis upon which many of them got released on
    the commercial record market in the late '60s and '70s.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 17:59:39 -0500
    From: "Mark Kinsler" <kinsler33@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject: Cleveland and broadcasting

    A question for Mr Murtough, and of course everyone else as well:

    My mother, a life-long Clevelander, once told me that Cleveland was the home
    town of many nationally-known announcers because, among other reasons, the
    Cleveland 'accent' makes you sound like you're from anywhere.  It is, or
    was, sort of a standard of American English pronounciation.  Seattle, WA was
    the only other city with that distinction.

    Since Mr Murtough seems to have some connections with Cleveland, I thought
    he might have some thoughts on this.

    M Kinsler
    512 E Mulberry St. Lancaster, Ohio USA 740 687 6368
    [removed]~kinsler

    --------------------------------
    End of [removed] Digest V2001 Issue #415
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