------------------------------
The Old-Time Radio Digest!
Volume 2002 : Issue 206
A Part of the [removed]!
ISSN: 1533-9289
Today's Topics:
Voicetracking [ "Ed Ellers" <ed_ellers@[removed]; ]
Re: Love it / Own it [ Christopher Werner <cwerner@globalc ]
Radio Organists [ Christopher Werner <cwerner@globalc ]
Palladin; Bart Simpson [ Rick Keating <pkeating89@[removed]; ]
Re: my best guess on The Honeymooner [ Harlan Zinck <buster@[removed]; ]
Frank Nelson & "YESSSS!" [ Herb Harrison <herbop@[removed] ]
Ludwig Baumann [ widnerj@[removed] ]
speaking of voices - Commercial Acto [ bloodbleeds@[removed] ]
Voice Tracking [ "Jerry Reed" <jerry@[removed]; ]
Coverless magazines & Books [ Herb Harrison <herbop@[removed] ]
Distinctive voices [ Edward Loyer <eloyer@[removed]; ]
Voice Tracking [ "Jerry Reed" <jerry@[removed]; ]
Not Rhoda's sister [ John Henley <jhenley@[removed] ]
Voice Tracking [ leemunsick@[removed] ]
Re: MP3 - Bravo Ian! [ John <JOHN007@[removed]; ]
the radio we love [ "" <cooldown3@[removed]; ]
Dressed for the Part [ yourstruly@[removed] ]
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 09:33:45 -0400
From: "Ed Ellers" <ed_ellers@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: Voicetracking
leemunsick@[removed] wrote:
What is "Voicetracking"?
It's the system in which the DJs, instead of making their announcements live
(and often operating the console and playing the songs and commercials),
record them in advance to be played back, along with the songs and
commercials, by a (low-paid) operator. This saves money because the station
needs fewer DJs to maintain a full schedule -- they can have each DJ on for
more hours a day, because the DJ's actual workload is so much lighter.
AFTRA's objection, of course, is that this means less work for their
members. Their claim of "a disservice to the public" is probably that the
shows may not have the same "live" feel, and more importantly that the
operator wouldn't be able to read severe weather warnings. (Of course, the
only reason for that is that the operator doesn't belong to the union!)
FWIW, MTV and VH-1 have always operated this way. As best I can recall, the
VJs do their announcements in a studio in Manhattan, while the tapes are
played back at an uplink site on Long Island.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 09:34:46 -0400
From: Christopher Werner <cwerner@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Re: Love it / Own it
Enjoyed the remarks of Mr Widner on the subject of copyrights and the
selective interpretation thereof. I am reminded of several events coming up
which may or may not have dire consequences for the OTR hobby.
1) Increasing popularity of the Cable versions of 'Nero Wolfe'
2) The rumored 'New' version of Dragnet
3) The general trend (due in part to the Millennium change) to be
interested in nostalgia and history. Part of it is due to the aging of the
Baby Boomers (50s and 60s will always be special) and part of it is due to
the anniversary increment for Television (be it 75 or 50 years).
Why is this important? If *any* of the 'old' programs become popular once
more, there will be significant market momentum for the networks (of whom
Jim commented are doing a poor job of enforcing copyright) to begin
cracking down on copyright violators. All it takes is a few large 'wins' in
the entertainment industry and the mega-media corporations will be
approaching Congress about some legislation to stop those 'evil' Internet
users from infringing upon their copyrights. We've seen it in the music
world (as a result of the invention of the 'evil' cassette recorder), we
now have well encrypted DVDs (as a result of the 'evil' CD-R/RW drives on
every PC) as the norm for movie releases and soon we will have enough
potential market to stomp out electronic distribution of anything still
under copyright ownership.
As to whether Radio Spirits or any owner of a transcription disk of a
program is doing great harm by not releasing the program to the general
masses (for fee or otherwise), I believe both sources are entitled to keep
the program out of circulation as long as they wish too. Just because we
live in a country where instant gratification is a normal mode of
operation, doesn't mean that your grandchildren don't deserve to get
excited over the newly release - long lost - episode of Gunsmoke that will
be made available in 2097. Besides, by then they can experience the
low-fidelity mono recording through a data port equipped with 'surround'
sensors that are connected directly to their eardrums/anvils. Imagine the
thrill of counting the number of steps from the sheriff's office to the
saloon then.
Be afraid, be very afraid. (Lights out - Everybody)
Chris
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 09:34:55 -0400
From: Christopher Werner <cwerner@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Radio Organists
Does anyone have any recordings of programs done by any of these organists
from the Detroit area. They all performed on the air at various times (in
the 30s I believe). Also, any additional biographical information about
them would be very helpful.
Armin 'Jack' Franz WJR Michigan Theater (my mother recalls his renditions
of Suppe overtures)
Arthur Gutrow WJR Michigan Theater
'Bob' Clarke WWJ Hollywood Theater
Merle Clark WJR Grand Riviera
Lew Betterly WGHP Capitol Theater
Don Miller WGHP Capitol Theater
Ole Foerch WJR Michigan Theater
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 09:35:32 -0400
From: Rick Keating <pkeating89@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Palladin; Bart Simpson
Don Dean brought up the final episode of "Have Gun
Will Travel" and Palladin's travels east. Palladin did
indeed head east at the end of the Nov. 27, 1960
broadcast to claim an inheritance.
Also, in response to John Mayer, Bart Simpson is
voiced by Nancy Cartwright. Julie Kavner, the actress
he's thinking of, voices Marge Simpson.
The boy called Bart: Have slingshot, will cause
trouble.
Bart is the Charlie McCarthy of today's era. The
parallels aren't exact of course, since the Simpsons
satirizes everything at one time or another, and the
Charlie McCarthy Show was more of a standard comedy.
Yet, Charlie was irreverent, sassy, disrespectful--
and popular; and so is Bart.
One great thing about the Simpsons is that it offers
tips of the hat to various aspects of popular culture
over the decades. I wouldn't be surprised if somewhere
along the way, there was a tip of the hat to OTR.
Rick
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 09:36:05 -0400
From: Harlan Zinck <buster@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Re: my best guess on The Honeymooners
Eric Cooper writes:
Let me profoundly and deeply apologize for being so presumptuous and
congratulate Harlan on his EXCELLENT detective work!!
THANK YOU HARLAN!!
My pleasure, Eric, but frankly I'm happy just to know that my memory still
has some power of retention. Ever since I turned 42, I've been beginning to
[removed]
BTW, don't feel at all badly about stating that something never was and
being proven wrong. My experience in OTR has been that, the minute I make a
statement I believe to be true, it will be proven false within a day or so
- and with an explanation, too.
Not that this stops me from making this same mistake over and over, of course.
That's really the best part about the OTR Digest - so many experienced and
knowledgeable minds coming together to share information. It's thanks to
folks like yourself and the other people on this list - particularly the
radio veterans and historians - that so much real day-to-day radio history
will be written, documented, and saved for the future. Thanks for the
forum, Charlie.
Speaking of history, has everyone here read Jim Cox's "Great Audience
Participation Shows"? A great read and well worth the price - especially to
support an author whose OTR research and output constantly amazes me. I
have no connection with the book - just an impressed [removed], ahem,
I *am* mentioned in the foreward. (I'll take any slight fame-by-association
I can get, thank you. <g>)
Harlan
Harlan Zinck
First Generation Radio Archives
[removed]
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 09:36:42 -0400
From: Herb Harrison <herbop@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Frank Nelson & "YESSSS!"
I was wrong. It wasn't Gale Gordon. I'm sorry.
(& I do appreciate the "diplomatic" tone of the corrections.)
Herb Harrison
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 09:37:20 -0400
From: widnerj@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Ludwig Baumann
Lee Munsick comments:
I don't even know who took the time to make this available, but he
or she deserves a rousing "huzzah" from us all.
Lee, this was put together by the Library of Congress from their
American Memory section web site. Whoever posted it on the site you
mentioned apparently got it from their site because all scanning and
the original is in the LOC. That is where the kudos should be
directed.
Jim Widner
jwidner@[removed]
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 09:37:45 -0400
From: bloodbleeds@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: speaking of voices - Commercial Actor magazine
Speaking of voices, does anyone here have any back issues of Commercial Actor
magazine? As far as I know, it came out in the 70s and had interviews and articles on the
Top voice people, many of whom were in radio. I have seen one issue, containing a long
interview with Paul Frees, but I own none. I would like to get some of these, or scans or
copies, for my research. Let me know if you can help. Thanks.
Ben
The Great Gildersleeve book
[removed]
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 09:38:30 -0400
From: "Jerry Reed" <jerry@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: Voice Tracking
This is a product of automation and something Clear Channel is doing at many
of their stations. They are now running their stations on automation and
either a person from one of their other stations or a part-timer comes in
lays down (records) all the voice tracks for a set period of time, let's say
four hours. They dump those tracks into a computer that automates that
station using those voice tracks simulating a live announcer. The person is
paid a set fee, usually less than he or she would get paid for four hours
work and certainly not union scale. Clear Channel and similar
multi-ownership groups are a direct result of the Reagan Deregulation years.
Many great, talented people left the business because of the de-regulation
and relaxation of the ownership rules. We are rapidly approaching The
Standard Oil era of broadcasting, ripe for a governmental breakup because a
few took advantage of a situation and are killing an industry. (I'll step
down from my soap-box now.)
Jerry E. Reed
e-mail: jerry@[removed]
Web site - [removed]
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 09:38:46 -0400
From: Herb Harrison <herbop@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Coverless magazines & Books
This might be off-topic, [removed]
danhughes@[removed] gave a good explanation for the sale of coverless magazines.
I remember that when I lived on the east coast 20 years ago, various
bookstores and (yes) supermarkets would put out vast displays of paperback
books that had no covers. The selling price was usually no more than 50% of
the original cover [removed] and I snapped them up by the handfull!
A friend of mine, who was in the publishing biz, used to argue with me that
I was stealing sales from the author's account, since the author wasn't
getting monetary credit for the books I was buying.
I argued back that the author wouldn't have gotten credit anyway, since the
books were officially "destroyed". By making them available at the discount
price, at least some readers who couldn't afford to buy the author's
full-price works "on spec" could "try out" some of his/her books, and maybe
buy the author's later books (with covers).
At least, that's how it worked for me; besides, I could never stand the
idea of destroying books, when there might be someone "out there" who might
enjoy [removed]
Herb Harrison
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 09:57:15 -0400
From: Edward Loyer <eloyer@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Distinctive voices
Certainly Edward R. Murrow needs be included in any list of "distinctive
voices".
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 10:02:39 -0400
From: "Jerry Reed" <jerry@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: Voice Tracking
This is a product of automation and something Clear Channel is doing at many
of their stations. They are now running their stations on automation and
either a person from one of their other stations or a part-timer comes in
lays down (records) all the voice tracks for a set period of time, let's say
four hours. They dump those tracks into a computer that automates that
station using those voice tracks simulating a live announcer. The person is
paid a set fee, usually less than he or she would get paid for four hours
work and certainly not union scale. Clear Channel and similar
multi-ownership groups are a direct result of the Reagan Deregulation years.
Many great, talented people left the business because of the de-regulation
and relaxation of the ownership rules. We are rapidly approaching The
Standard Oil era of broadcasting, ripe for a governmental breakup because a
few took advantage of a situation and are killing an industry. (I'll step
down from my soap-box now.)
Jerry E. Reed
e-mail: jerry@[removed]
Web site - [removed]
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 09:57:28 -0400
From: John Henley <jhenley@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Not Rhoda's sister
Off topic for just a tick here, John Mayer said
I, for example,
completely accept Bart Simpson's voice as that of a boy in early
adolescence, even though I know he's really Rhoda's sister (sorry, can't
quite think of her name).
John is half-correct - Bart Simpson's voice is a woman's, namely
Nancy Cartwright. But Rhoda's sister was Julie Kavner, and she
provides the voice of mom Marge Simpson.
John Henley
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 10:37:27 -0400
From: leemunsick@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Voice Tracking
Well, I've had a lesson (both in the Digest and direct eMail to me) on this
insidious process.
I can understand why AFTRA was in favor of it to begin with. Same as Bing
Crosby started, to give the DJ the chance to pre-record to save time,
garner a vacation or a few days to get married, etc.
That of course brings up the question, "Who would ever want to marry an
announcer?" Well, my lovely, dear wife, for one. Thank Heaven for that.
But the thought of one or two guys pre-recording all the material for a
whole day in an hour or so, and worse yet having it sent out perhaps to
1200 stations is mind-boggling and let's face it, just plain greedy. Gone
is the personality of radio, as one writer put it. One more reason for
people to tune out and turn off.
I'm all for AFTRA to knock it down. Except they won't be able to. Perhaps
just get a little more pay for the people who do the voice
tracking. Unfortunately, that won't help all the other Joes who are out of
work. Where are future talents supposed to come from, to raise just one
pertinent point. There won't be any places for people to start in the
business.
"Clear Channel" is an interesting name for an ownership octopus, isn't
it? I doubt they own even one clear channel outlet in all their monopoly.
As a former newsman, this whole thing is very scary. With newspapers being
squeezed out by TV and the Internet, God help our nation. Where will
future generations (let alone historians) get their true information?
It was pointed out by one correspondent that this is part of the
de-regulation begun in the Reagan years. I was all for de-regulation in
principle, but it has turned out to be a very bad thing. Consider the
airline industry. Trucking, which used to be so safe and is now one very
scary proposition. All kinds of oversight functions where a handful of
inspectors are supposed to cover an entire region of the country.
Eeeeeeek!
I have a friend who is a high executive in one of the largest insurance
writers in the world. They used to specialize in
transportation: airlines, trucking lines, buses. They got out of the
business because it 's now so un-safe since there aren't enough inspectors
to keep everyone honest in their scheduling and maintenance practices, let
alone safe.
Thanks, everyone, for your responses. I learned something. But in one
sense I'm sorry I had to.
Lee Munsick
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 15:10:53 -0400
From: John <JOHN007@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Re: MP3 - Bravo Ian!
Well I can tell you that the mp3 share community is as much against
e-bay selling of mp3 as any dealer and collector.
I think Ian makes a very good (and almost always overlooked) point when
he points out the fact that the MP3 sharing "community" and the E-Bay
sellers are *two different groups*, for the most part.
Most of the MP3-for-free "sharers" whom I know strongly decry the
selling of free Mp3 on E-Bay, and have done what they could to stop it.
Obviously, this issue is complex, but I think the waters are often
muddied by lumping everyone who uses MP3 into the same group. There are
those who are using the format to share freely what they believe to be
public domain programs; and there are others who are trying to make a
fast buck from something they obtained for free (or perhaps by
subscription to a dealer or archival group). These two are very
different philosophies and usually not the same folks at all.
Bravo, Ian, for making some excellent points.
Happy Listening,
John
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 15:12:51 -0400
From: "" <cooldown3@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: the radio we love
I am reminded of the novel By Gogol called "Dead Souls. It depicted the
adventures Pavel Ivanovich Chichikov, who arrives in a provincial town to
buy 'dead souls', dead serfs. By selling these 'souls' with a cheaply-bought
lands, Chichikov planned to make a huge profit. He meets local landowners
and departs the in a hurry, when rumors start spread about him.
If one understands that this proceeded the Russian revolution by some years
and further understands the revolution was based to a large degree, not in
poverty but the hopelessness of changing things one might draw a lesson from
this.
At some point have-nots [fill in whatever you don't have here] find a level
of frustration which elicits a response out of proportion to the problem.
Are land owners entitled to own their land? Absolutely. Is it likely they
can own ALL the land with no hope of others acquiring any part of it? Not as
likely, nor is it good to do so. Advanced countries have long agreed that
there is a benefit to public areas as well as privately held lands, and the
normal tendency toward monopoly will have most of us standing on one foot
somewhere in a desert at some point.
I think about the restrictions placed on the use of music purchased in
Europe and South America. Why are 'zones' necessary? Is the zone which
restricts South American Artistic performances legal within the
understanding of the NAFTA treaty?
I remember my favorite artist while I was in Germany in the early 60's was a
fellow called Gus Backus. He is an American actually, and had a hit in
Nashville before going to Germany and restarting his career. The vast bulk
of his work is unavailable to America as the cd's do not play in the
machines in this country. This seems to me to be a bit of arrogance on the
part of copyright holders who, having sold the work at a fair price in an
open market, seek to restrict the use for no real reason. A bit of trying to
have your cake and eat it too.
Without some organized market there would be no radio shows in any format to
enjoy. give dealers their due. I do not know anybody here. I am just an avid
fan of radio who would exhort everybody to remember that our love of these
shows is greater than the difference which has been here lately. The
differences hurt us all.
On one hand the various companies have the right to sell or not sell
anything they own. With that right comes the obligation [noblesse oblige] to
act and sell fairly and responsibly. We will not feel good about the
purchase made under duress or opressive terms.
And the end users have a right to listen to and to 'fair use' copies. This
has been provided for by law, and I note that a stipend is collected and
paid proportionally to all copyright holders who have made application for
them. End users have the obligation [nobless oblige] to copy and use
responsibly. That does not include giving away others hard , or even not so
hard won products. You would not go through a buffet line and stack your
plate to give to strangers [I hope]. Can't we all strive to be a bit more
noble about this ?
Like Potempkin, a revolution in audio entertainment has broken out. It hurts
us all. In the meantime we are told by honest merchants and by the Boyars
alike, I own the works of the great artists, now dead souls.
Patrick
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 15:13:00 -0400
From: yourstruly@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Dressed for the Part
I've seen several photos with radio stars dressed as the character they play
on the show, such as Bill Thompson in costume as the Old Timer. Did stars
dress the part for reasons other than for public relations photos?
[removed] George
--------------------------------
End of [removed] Digest V2002 Issue #206
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