Subject: [removed] Digest V2003 #16
From: "OldRadio Mailing Lists" <[removed]@[removed];
Date: 1/12/2003 11:05 PM

To: <[removed]@[removed];

    ------------------------------

                                The Old-Time Radio Digest!
                                  Volume 2003 : Issue 16
                             A Part of the [removed]!
                                     ISSN: 1533-9289

                                     Today's Topics:

      Twilight of Some Radio Premiums       [ "Stephen A Kallis, Jr." <skallisjr@ ]
      Re: Jolson                            [ Elizabeth McLeod <lizmcl@[removed] ]
      Re: Mentioning Distaff SFX "artists"  [ Conrad Binyon <conradab@[removed] ]
      Censorship and preservation at the n  [ "MICHAEL BIEL" <mbiel@[removed]; ]
      Ratings for non-commercial stations   [ "MICHAEL BIEL" <mbiel@[removed]; ]
      correction on crosbys stats           [ Jer51473@[removed] ]
      Sound Effects and Women               [ "Irene Heinstein" <IreneTH@[removed] ]
      Re: BOB HOPE shows                    [ SanctumOTR@[removed] ]
      Where is OTR on the Net?              [ bruce humphries <cherubim1234@yahoo ]
      Re: censorship?                       [ Dixonhayes@[removed] ]
      Christmas Jingles                     [ Lennell Herbert-Marshall <HerMars@e ]
      Amtrak Sale                           [ Lennell Herbert-Marshall <HerMars@e ]
      Re: Stereo Radio                      [ Fred Berney <berney@[removed]; ]

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 12:35:34 -0500
    From: "Stephen A Kallis, Jr." <skallisjr@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Twilight of Some Radio Premiums

    The other day, I got into an e-mail discussion with a fellow on the Lone
    Ranger Atom Bomb Ring radio premium.  When it was first offered, the
    recipient would get to see a dazzling light show (in a minor key) with
    literally hundreds of sparkles showing in minutes.  It was interesting,
    and to a ten-year-old, almost magical.  However, some 56 years later,
    looking into the lens of an Atom Bomb Ring, the chances approach unity
    that not a single spark would be seen.

    The reason is that the premium incorporated a radioisotope with a
    relatively short half-life.  (The only other premium incorporation
    radioisotopes that comes to mind is the Tom Mix Tiger Eye Ring.  That one
    has a longer half-life, so the ring's "stone" still glows, though more
    faintly.)  Without dwelling on that one premium, it's interesting to
    contemplate that some premiums deteriorate more than others.

    Corrosion and unreasonable wear and tear aside, many radio premiums today
    "deliver" as well today as they did when sweaty little fingers eagerly
    tore open the brown-paper envelopes freshly delivered from the shows'
    sponsors.  Many of the Secret Compartment rings will still conceal
    sensitive, if tiny, messages, should anyone need to hide any.  The
    cryptological devices -- Radio Orphan Annie Decoder Pins and Captain
    Midnight Code-O-Graphs -- will decipher messages the same today.  (When I
    first heard recordings of existing Captain Midnight shows for the first
    time, reflex kicked in and I scrambled to get paper and writing implement
    without realizing I could simply have stopped the tape.  Deciphering just
    needed to determine which Code-O-Graph to use.)  The tiny compasses in
    items like the Tom Mix compass-magnifiers and the Frank Buck Explorer Sun
    Watch still indicate North.

    But some items show their age in whole or part.  Some of the luminous
    plastic elements have lost a portion of their luminosity.  The ink in the
    ballpoint pen in the Sky King Magni-Glo Writing Ring has dried out.  The
    tiny flints necessary for the Lone Ranger Six-Gun Ring are no longer
    available.

    The Captain Midnight Initial Printing Ring and the Sky King Spy-Detecto
    Writer inkpads can be re-inked, but they are relative exceptions.  If a
    premium has a vulnerable aspect, it will age, alas.

    Sometimes we can get closer to those thrilling days of yesterday than
    others.

    Stephen A. Kallis, Jr.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 14:18:17 -0500
    From: Elizabeth McLeod <lizmcl@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Re: Jolson

    On 1/12/03 12:53 PM OldRadio Mailing Lists wrote:

>     When Bob Hope was asked that question he said that Al Jolson was the
>     greatest entertainer he ever knew.   I think that Jolson's blackface
>     routines have made him hard to "admire" and to be remembered in a way he
>     probably should be admired and remembered (as an entertainer at least, if
>     not as a private person).

    Jolson is one of those performers who, by all indications, had to be seen
    in person before a live audience to be truly appreciated. His recordings,
    radio programs, and movies only captured fragments of the whole -- his
    proper place was on the stage, and there's really no way to properly
    appreciate him outside that context. But in his day, and in his place, he
    was the Real Deal.

    One of the single most dynamic performances I've ever heard in any medium
    is Jolson's performance of "Brother Can You Spare A Dime," offered as
    part of a 1939 NBC program of artists urging continuation of the WPA
    Federal Theatre Project, then in danger of losing its government funding.
    Jolson performs this Depression anthem like an operatic aria -- and he
    literally explodes out of the loudspeaker. Radio was too small a medium
    for him -- if he could be this dynamic behind a microphone, I can't
    imagine the overwhelming experience of seeing him in person.

    Perhaps the closest comparison might be seeing Elvis in person in his
    prime -- and, indeed, Elvis often cited Jolson as one of his
    inspirations. Watching Jolson's leering expressions and hip-wriggling,
    finger-snapping movements in the "Toot Toot Tootsie" number in "The Jazz
    Singer"(1927) one is struck by just how Elvis-like he really was. (And
    for that matter, I'd submit that Elvis himself was Jolson's legitimate
    heir as the ultimate expression of the blackface tradition in popular
    entertainment -- he just did it without the cork.)

    Elizabeth

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 14:19:33 -0500
    From: Conrad Binyon <conradab@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Re: Mentioning Distaff SFX "artists".
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    In the mid 40's, I believe, a yound lady joined the sound effects staff of
    CBS KNX in Los Angeles and did yeoperson duty on episodes of "Mayor of the
    Town."  I think her name was Mary Ann or some such.  Perhaps Bill Murtough
    with his sharp as a tack memory can confirm the lady's name.
    CAB

    ---
    conradab@[removed] (Conrad A. Binyon)
       From the Home of the Stars who loved Ranches and Farms
         Encino, California.

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    Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 14:22:22 -0500
    From: "MICHAEL BIEL" <mbiel@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Censorship and preservation at the nets

    From: "Andrew Godfrey" <niteowl049@[removed];

>     Was there any censorship in OTR days?

    Boy was there ever!  It usually was called "The Office of Standards and
    Practices"

>     I have listened to some Bob Hope shows that came close to crossing
>     the line where they might have been censored if there were censors.

    The scripts were probably raunchier before the S&P people got to them.  And
    you can clearly hear that some of the routines done for Armed Forces Radio
    would never have been allowed on NBC, CBS, etc.

>     It is sad that there are so few Bob Hope shows available to listen to.
>      Was this a NBC policy that caused so few shows to be saved? On the
>     other hand Jack Benny has over 800 shows that were saved ...
>     Another example would be Ozzie and Harriet which was on several
>     years but only has about 58 shows available for [removed];

    I believe it has been mentioned here that just about every Bob Hope program
    exists.  He has just kept tighter control over his own copies, and I
    suppose the people who raided the NBC NY vaults back in the 50s and 60s
    copying programs were less interested in Hope than Benny.  I also believe
    that most of the Ozzie and Harriet's exist, but a large percentage of the
    ones in circulation were ferretted out of the Northwestern University
    collection.  For some reason there was a group of over 23 of them there,
    while Bob Hope was represented only by the Berlin Airlift show of 12/28/49,
    the 1st and 3rd daytime 15 minute program of 11/10 and 12/52, and a VFW
    special of 4/4/49.  No Jack Benny at all.  Perhaps there were Hope and
    Benny discs that disappeared from WMAQ before the collection was donated in
    1964, but we were never given any finding aids for the collection that
    would have indicated what had originally existed.

    As for NBC's policy on recording and archiving, actually they were not
    supposed to do it.  The advertisers which owned the programs never gave the
    network the rights to record and/or keep the recordings, but they ended up
    with several hundred thousand recordings anyway.  Performers and
    advertisers could request that recordings be made, and it is known that
    Hope, Benny, and Ozzie all maintained their own personal archives, as did
    many other performers.  Ozzie referrs to some of his recordings in his
    autobiography, Benny donated his to UCLA (and got badly hit by the IRS for
    his troubles), and Hope Enterprises has recently allowed Radio Spirits to
    make available two collections of his radio programs. I've discussed in the
    past that the NBC New York collection is heavier on New York originated
    programs than those from LA, so that is a reason why there happens to be a
    more complete collection of early Fred Allen programs in it than for Jack
    Benny.  It is also notable that New York usually recorded only the East
    Coast feed, so the discs from California are more likely to be the source
    of West Coast feeds.  Rarely do you see indications in dealer's catalogs
    noting which feed the recording is from.

>     I am curious to know if anyone knows specific instances of where shows
>     were discarded after a certain length of time or recorded over.  Andrew
>     Godfrey

    Ruth Terry Preston, who was the head of NBC's Central Files in NY from the
    mid-30s to the early 70s, told me in 1971 that about 50% or more of the NBC
    discs were discarded about 4 or 5 years earlier.  Many were from the
    post-war period when they delayed 100% of the network feeds for the areas
    that did not switch to Daylight Saving Time.  But I also came across a pack
    of file cards in a semi-hidden drawer that were for programs that had been
    recently discarded.  These included the soundtracks of thousands of TV game
    shows which had been recorded for immediate reference if a dispute came up
    while a program was being aired.  Walter Toscanini or Don Gillis told the
    story on-air once about when they found--and rescued--a large skid of discs
    in a hallway near a freight elevator and discovered many hundreds of
    Toscanini rehearsal discs about to be discarded.  Ms. Preston also told me
    that 90% of their TV kinescope film recordings had also been discarded.
    Buffalo Bob Smith once told me that he had gotten messages that his
    programs were being discarded but that he could come and take as many as he
    wanted.  He sadly admitted he took less than 20, most of them of special
    events.  Milton Berle was said to have been furious about ten years ago
    that his programs had been discarded, but he called off his lawsuit when he
    discoverd that, as Ms. Preston had told me, NBC had saved the negative of
    each of his programs.  It is likely that a lot of the discarded kines were
    duplicate prints--they often needed at least 13 prints of each program to
    distribute to non-interconnected stations in the early 50s.  There are
    about 50,000 kines in the NBC collection at LC.  About 175,000 discs from
    NBC are at LC.

    Michael Biel  mbiel@[removed]

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 14:22:42 -0500
    From: "MICHAEL BIEL" <mbiel@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Ratings for non-commercial stations

    In discussing the changes on TNN and the Opry, Janet mentioned "when
    ratings tables are published the one network you never see ratings for is
    PBS."  She further thought that the reason might be because "it would be
    difficult to create a ratings table consistent with the standardized
    programming shown on other networks."

    That's not the reason.  Rating services are generally designed for the use
    of advertisers to enable them to choose where to place their ads.  Thus
    non-commercial stations of all types are usually excluded unless the
    non-comm pays for and subscribes to the rating service.   The figures are
    there in the raw data that the rating service collects, but they don't
    bother publishing it unless a paying customer wants it.

    Michael Biel  mbiel@[removed]

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 14:50:53 -0500
    From: Jer51473@[removed]
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  correction on crosbys stats
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     As pointed out by another poster, i was wrong about the number of oscars
    bing was awarded, it was only one, but he was nominated 3 times as the poster
    pointed out also. I was also wrong about the # times he was the #1 box office
    winner as he won it 5 consecutive years 1944-48 not 6 as i posted. The 5 in a
    row though was a record that still stands. From 1934-54 he was in the top 5
    12 times and in the top 10 15 times which is probably the highest overall
    ranking of all time or if its not, its got to be close. Sorry for the errors,
    just trying to get things closer to what they are. Bob hope picked jolson,
    who is a good choice, but could that have involved a little jealousy of his
    old pal bing since they were maybe rivals in the same era for such a label
    and jolson was mostly from another era? Anyway, all 3 could be labeled as
    such and if you throw in elvis and sinatra you cant be far from identifying
    the true greatest. Again, opinions are just that, opinions.

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    Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 14:51:05 -0500
    From: "Irene Heinstein" <IreneTH@[removed];
    To: "OTR" <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Sound Effects and Women

    I know this is technically not sound effects but the only person who could
    whistle the "Whistler" theme was a woman who did so for the entire run as I
    recall.

    When I was a kid in the late 40s we used to make galloping horse sound
    effects by slapping our hands down to our knee.  It still works.  :))

    ~Irene

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 16:01:27 -0500
    From: SanctumOTR@[removed]
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Re: BOB HOPE shows

    In a message dated 1/12/03 11:49:11 AM, "Andrew Godfrey" <niteowl049@[removed]
    writes:

>     It is sad that there are so few Bob Hope shows available to listen to.
>     Was this a NBC policy that caused so few shows to be saved? On the other
>     hand Jack Benny has over 800 shows that were saved and he and Bob Hope both
>     were on radio about the same number of years.

    ***Like Jack Benny, Bob Hope saved transcriptions of almost all of his radio
    shows, and many are finally being released through Radio Spirits.  Within the
    last few months, RSI has released two BOB HOPE collections on CD and
    cassette: a 40-show collection (with a historical booklet by yours truly and
    a foreword by Hope) and a 24-show collection that at the moment is
    exclusively available at Sam's Club discount warehouses for $[removed]  All the
    shows in the two collections are directly off of Bob Hope's personal
    collection of electrical transcriptions and in great sound.  The Sam's Club
    collection features his first Pepsodent show and his last radio show, and
    contains totally different programs than the 40-show set.

    Your mention of MP3s points to one of the reasons shows often don't get
    released.  It costs a lot of time, effort and money to get these shows
    transferred and released.  Entertainers (and their heirs) often aren't
    willing to go to the trouble and cost of having this done unless there is a
    financial incentive, like royalty payments.  I remember hearing the offspring
    of a famous OTR comedy team discussing this over breakfast at an OTR
    convention some years back.  They had a number of unreleased ETs, but feared
    that others and not the family who owned the transcriptions would profit if
    they allowed copies to be made.

    Hopefully, there will be many more collections of previously uncirculated BOB
    HOPE SHOWS ... if collectors and fans actually purchase the collections
    rather than wait until someone provides them with cheap, unauthorized MP3
    dupes.

    BTW, I'm REALLY happy with both of RSI's BOB HOPE collections, having
    listened to them again during a recent drive to California and back.  Great
    sound and really enjoyable shows.  DISCLAIMER: While I work for RSI, I have
    no financial participation in the sale of these collections, other than the
    flat rate I received to write the booklet.  This recommendation is based on
    my personal enjoyment of these shows, and graditude that they're finally
    available to be enjoyed by others. --Anthony Tollin

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 17:29:22 -0500
    From: bruce humphries <cherubim1234@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Where is OTR on the Net?

    Hello All,

    What a wonderful site. I've been reading for the last
    few weeks and it's a great place for research.

    I love writing radio plays and am searching for great
    internet sites where I can find OTR downloads. Not so
    much for collecting but to just hear them.

    Thanks for any help.

    You may e-mail me privately to save the list some
    extra space.

    Thanks to OTR list again.

    bruce
    db humphries

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 21:11:51 -0500
    From: Dixonhayes@[removed]
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Re: censorship?
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    In a message dated 1/12/03 11:49:11 AM Central Standard Time,
    [removed]@[removed] writes:

>     Was there any censorship in OTR days? I have listened to some Bob Hope
>     shows that came close to crossing the line where they might have been
>     censored if there were censors.

    I've heard stories about the silliest things being censored during OTR.  Fred
    Allen had legendary disputes with his censors.  On one occasion NBC even cut
    the audio for one of his live shows while he told a joke at the network's
    expense.  (His show had been mistimed for several weeks, with the show often
    ending in mid-sketch.  Allen was explaining it by saying a vice president was
    in charge, taking a minute here and five there until he had two weeks, then
    took a vacation on Fred's time.) I forget which show this was, but it was in
    the mid-to-late 1940s half hour era, and the gap can still be heard on
    surviving transcriptions of the show.  Allen once said "NBC denies the
    existence of Hell and CBS, but not necessarily in that order."  That was a
    reference to his censorship battles.

    A straight line was once censored from a Jack Benny show.  Jack was
    apparently in his bathroom shaving when someone (I think Don Wilson) came in
    to talk to him.  Jack simply told him to sit down.  The censors objected,
    saying it implied the presence of a toilet.  One of the writers supposedly
    suggested changing the line to "Put down the lid and sit down," but the
    network executive apparently missed the sarcasm and screeched, "That's
    dirty!"

    On the other hand, one of Jack Benny's biographies has a story about a joke
    in a show that went past the [removed] the writers took it out anyway.
    Jack was in a medical plaza of some type and read off names of various
    specialists.  Something like "Let's see [removed] Footman, foot [removed]
    Swallow, throat [removed] Palm, hand [removed] a [removed]
    Ballzer???!!!"  Apparently the censor thought the double entendre was
    strictly a reference to one of the show's writers, who was indeed named
    Ballzer.

    BTW this is my first post in the digest.  I recently re-discovered OTR.  I
    had collected tapes as a teen, but got out of it for a few years for
    financial reasons.  The Mercury Theatre "War of the Worlds" broadcast was the
    siren that seduced me; "The CBS Radio Mystery Theatre" was the one radio show
    from my era that won me over (well, that and the "Sears Radio Theatre").

    Dixon

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    Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 23:31:37 -0500
    From: Lennell Herbert-Marshall <HerMars@[removed];
    To: Old Time Radio Digest <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Christmas Jingles

    I was just finishing up listening to OTR Christmas shows and was writing
    down the words for some of the Autolite jingles.  On their December 23,
    1948 version of "Holiday Story" with Herbert Marshall, they do their
    version of Jingle Bells.  It goes something like:

    Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells, Jingle through the snow
    Your Cars all have its full of ????? with autolite you know.

    I've listened to this recording a dozen times and still cannot discern
    what the missing words are.  I think its something like pav or path,
    neither of which make any sense to me.  Can someone help me out here?

    By the way, this show is nearly word for word the same as "Back for
    Christmas" with Peter Lorre.

    Thanks for any help.

    Lennell H-M

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 23:32:09 -0500
    From: Lennell Herbert-Marshall <HerMars@[removed];
    To: Old Time Radio Digest <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Amtrak Sale

    For those who take an Amtrak train to the Cincinnati convention, thought
    you would like to know that Amtrak is having a fare sale that covers
    that time period.

    They have a 2 for 1 sale (one person travels free when two travel
    together) or for those traveling alone, there is a 25% off sale.  You
    need to purchase your ticket no later than February 15th for travel no
    later than August 28th.

    This promotion saved me $150 off the sleeper car rate for the
    Alexandria, VA to Cincinnati run.  The sale fare is less than the AAA
    discount or the Senior discount.

    Lennell H-M

    ------------------------------

    Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 01:04:21 -0500
    From: Fred Berney <berney@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Re: Stereo Radio

    Another show that was broadcast in stereo was the Perry Como show. I
    happened to tape it in stereo. So, if anyone wants to hear the quality, at
    least that tape exists.

    Fred
    [removed]

    --------------------------------
    End of [removed] Digest V2003 Issue #16
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