Subject: [removed] Digest V2005 #147
From: [removed]@[removed]
Date: 5/11/2005 2:01 PM

To: [removed]@[removed]

    ------------------------------

                                The Old-Time Radio Digest!
                                  Volume 2005 : Issue 147
                             A Part of the [removed]!
                                 [removed]
                                     ISSN: 1533-9289

                                     Today's Topics:

      "District Attorney"?                  [ "kclarke5@[removed]" <kclarke5@juno. ]
      Fred Allen Copyrights                 [ "RICHARD RIEVE" <Rieve9@[removed]; ]
      Boston Public Library and Fred Allen  [ Rentingnow@[removed] ]
      Re:The Scarecrow of Romney Marsh      [ Anthony Tollin <sanctumotr@earthlin ]
      Bob and Ray                           [ "evantorch" <etorch@[removed]; ]
      A REAL Duffy's Tavern                 [ "[removed]" <asajb2000@ ]
      #OldRadio IRC Chat this Thursday Nig  [ charlie@[removed] ]
      5-11 births/deaths                    [ Ron Sayles <bogusotr@[removed]; ]
      Aw!, Relax Hal. Relaxx!!!.            [ "Austotr" <austotr@[removed]; ]
      End of Australian SERIES/SERIALS      [ "Austotr" <austotr@[removed]; ]
      Jack Benny--Better with Age           [ "Derek Tague" <derek@[removed]; ]
      "Defense Attorney"                    [ "kclarke5@[removed]" <kclarke5@juno. ]

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 15:29:19 -0400
    From: "kclarke5@[removed]" <kclarke5@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  "District Attorney"?

         I recently read in Jack French's book "Private
    Eyelashes" about a series with Mercedes McCambridge
    called "District Attorney". It sounds very interesting
    and I'd like to find out, if possible, where I might
    obtain a tape or CD of this program. I was considering
    attempting to get "Perry Mason", but discovered that
    one case took over 10 episodes or more before it was
    resolved. Hopefully, "District Attorney" can be solved
    in one or two episodes.

         Are there any episodes of this program available
    now? Does anyone have any further information regarding
    this series?

         Any help will be appreciated.

    Another OTR Fan,

    Kenneth Clarke

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 18:16:35 -0400
    From: "RICHARD RIEVE" <Rieve9@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Fred Allen Copyrights
    X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative
    X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain

    A. Joseph Ross makes an excellent point.  Who does own the copyrights to Fred
    Allen's shows?

      *** This message was altered by the server, and may not appear ***
      ***                  as the sender intended.                   ***

    [ADMINISTRIVIA: Once more into the breech, dear [removed]

    The ONLY way to asertain the copyright status of any given program is to hire
    an attorney who specializes in this area of the law, and pay them to do the
    search, clearing all primary and underlying copyrights, as well as any
    trademarks that may be attached. Any other opinion, including _mine,_ is
    worse than worthless, as depending on it can easily get you a C&D letter from
    a rightsholder.

    So no lay speculation on specific programs, eh? I've allowed the discussion
    of copyright law because it has been non-specific, dealing more with whether
    the current state is a "good thing" or not, but I do _not_ want the list
    bogged down in unauthorative opinions on who might own what specific program.
    --cfs3]

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 18:57:54 -0400
    From: Rentingnow@[removed]
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Boston Public Library and Fred Allen

    In a message dated 5/5/2005 12:18:44 [removed] Eastern Standard Time,
    [removed]@[removed] writes:

>     am a collector who wonders what  the position of the Boston Public Library
>     on it's Fred Allen collection in  light of the bequest conditions of
>     Fred/Portland.

    What were the conditions?  I was thinking about poping over to Boston  to do
    some research on Portland.

    Larry Moore

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 08:32:57 -0400
    From: Anthony Tollin <sanctumotr@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Re:The Scarecrow of Romney Marsh

    On Tuesday, May 10, 2005, at 02:46 PM,
    [removed]@[removed] wrote:

>     And there were an
>     awful lot of _Wonderful World of Disney_ features drawn from public
>     domain, such as _The Adventures of the Scarecrow_.

    ***Actually Russell Thorndike's DR. SYN novels were all under copyright
    when Disney did THE SCARECROW OF ROMNEY MARSH back in 1964.  (Two
    episodes of the trilogy had the misfortune of airing opposite The
    Beatles' two appearances on THE ED SULLIVAN SHOW.)  Disney licensed the
    rights from Russell Thorndike, while Hammer's CAPTAIN CLEGG film was a
    remake of the 1930s Geoge Arliss DR. SYN film (which was in turn based
    on Thorndike's earlier stage play).

    Thorndike's seven DR. SYN novels were originally published between 1915
    and 1944.  As far as I know, the first published (and last in the
    chronology), DR. SYN, is still in copyright in England but public
    domain here in the
    [removed], since the British law extended until fifty years after the
    creator's death.  Thorndike died in the early 1970s as I recall.  I
    discussed the rights situation with Russell's son  Daniel Thorndike
    back in 1979.

    Unfortunately, Russell Thorndike's contract with Disney has allowed the
    company to veto reprints of the novels for several decades, along with
    any other dramatized versions.  During the late 1970s, former DR. WHO
    John Pertwee wanted very much to star as DR. SYN in a BBC miniseries,
    but the Disney corporation wouldn't okay the rights.

    Say, do any of our British listers know if there was ever a radio
    dramatization of DR. SYN in the [removed]

    --ANTHONY TOLLIN (who traveled to Dymchurch to attend the bi-annual
    "Day of Syn" in 1979, 1981 and 1983)***

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 08:33:12 -0400
    From: "evantorch" <etorch@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Bob and Ray

    In answer to the query about Bob and Ray's newsletter, I don't think that it
    existed any more than their "audience". They often told listeners to send in
    their names but would later act as though nobody had been "elite enough" to
    receive one.
    The real Bob and Ray question which I wish Bob Elliot or his son could
    answer is the still unsettled role Tom Koch's writing played vs. their
    "spontaneous" output.
    Evan Torch
    Atlanta
    etorch@[removed]

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 08:33:26 -0400
    From: "[removed]" <asajb2000@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  A REAL Duffy's Tavern

    Near us (in West Haven, CT) is a bar called Duffy's
    Tavern (Campbell Street).  I called them and asked for
    Duffy, but the guy who answered the phone said Duffy
    wasn't there.

    True Story.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 08:33:40 -0400
    From: charlie@[removed]
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  #OldRadio IRC Chat this Thursday Night!

    A weekly [removed]

    For the best in OTR Chat, join IRC (Internet Relay Chat), StarLink-IRC
    Network, the channel name is #OldRadio.  We meet Thursdays at 8 PM Eastern
    and go on, and on! The oldest OTR Chat Channel, it has been in existence
    over six years, same time, same channel! Started by Lois Culver, widow
    of actor Howard Culver, this is the place to be on Thursday night for
    real-time OTR talk!

    Our "regulars" include OTR actors, soundmen, collectors, listeners, and
    others interested in enjoying OTR from points all over the world. Discussions
    range from favorite shows to almost anything else under the sun (sometimes
    it's hard for us to stay on-topic)...but even if it isn't always focused,
    it's always a good time!

    For more info, contact charlie@[removed]. We hope to see you there, this
    week and every week!

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 08:33:49 -0400
    From: Ron Sayles <bogusotr@[removed];
    To: Olde Tyme Radio List <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  5-11 births/deaths

    May 11th births

    05-11-1888 - Irving Berlin - Temum, Russia - d. 9-22-1989
    composer: "Ed Sullivan Show"; "People's Platform"
    05-11-1892 - Margaret Rutherford - London, England - d. 5-22-1972
    actress: "Wisdon of Miss Marple"; "Theatre Guild On the Air"
    05-11-1894 - Martha Graham - Allegheny, PA - d. 4-1-1991
    choreographer: Miss Hush on "Truth or Consequences"
    05-11-1895 - Maurice Joachim - d. 11-xx-1980
    actor: Omar "Omar, the Mystic"; "Unseen Friend "Your Unseen Friend"
    05-11-1899 - Forrest Lewis - Knightstown, IN - d. 6-2-1977
    actor: Richard Q. Peavey "Great Gildersleeve"; Roy Delfeeno "Vic and Sade"
    05-11-1907 - Kent Taylor - Nashua, IA - d. 4-11-1987
    actor: "Hollywood Hotel"
    05-11-1910 - Johnnie 'Skat' Davis - Brazil, IN - d. 11-28-1983
    trumpet: "The Fred Waring Show"
    05-11-1911 - Doodles Weaver - Los Angeles, CA - d. 1-13-1983
    comedian: (Brother of Pat Weaver) Professor Feedlebaum "Spike Jones Show"
    05-11-1911 - Phil Silvers - Brooklyn, NY - d. 11-1-1985
    comedian: "Phil Silver's Show"; "Screen Guild Theatre"; "Suspense"
    05-11-1912 - Bob Trendler
    pianist, conductor: "Bob Trendler Orchestra"
    05-11-1912 - Foster Brooks - Louisville, KY - d. 12-20-2001
    disc jockey: "Foster Brooks Show"; "Melody, Inc."; "Million Dollar Ballroom"
    05-11-1914 - Bob Atcher - nr. West Point, KY - d. 10-31-1993
    singer: "Faultless Starch Time"; "WLS Barn Dance"
    05-11-1919 - John Michael Hayes - Worcester, MA
    writer: "Yours Truly, Johnny Dollar"; "Twelve Players"; "Sam Spade"; "Alias
    Jane Doe"
    05-11-1927 - Mort Sahl - Montreal, Canada
    comedian: "Mort Sahl Show"
    05-11-1930 - Marilyn King - Salt Lake City, UT
    singer: (The King Sisters) "Horace Heidt and His Brigadiers"

    May 11th deaths

    03-11-1952 - Douglas Adams - Cambridge, England - d. 5-11-2001
    writer: "Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy"
    04-04-1889 - Dorothy Gordon - Odessa, Russia - d. 5-11-1970
    moderator: "Dorothy Gordon's Youth Forum"
    05-08-1919 - Lex Barker - Rye, NY - d. 5-11-1973
    actor: "MGM Theatre of the Air"
    06-13-1873 - Jean Adair - Hamilton, Ontario, Canada - d. 5-11-1953
    actress: "Radio Guild"; "Theatre Guild On the Air"
    07-25-1906 - Johhny Hodges - Cambridge, MA - d. 5-11-1970
    alto saxophonist: "Esquire Jazz Concert"; "Duke Ellington and His Orchestra"
    08-16-1900 - Walter Kinsella - NY  - d. 5-11-1975
    actor: Pat Patton "Dick Tracy"; Sergeant Mullins "Mr. and Mrs. North"
    11-20-1900 - Chester Gould - Pawnee,  Oklahoma Territory - d. 5-11-1985
    comic strip artist: "Dick Tracy"
    --
    Ron Sayles
    Milwaukee, Wisconsin

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 08:39:52 -0400
    From: "Austotr" <austotr@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Aw!, Relax Hal. Relaxx!!!.

    In issue 144, Hal Stone in a post that took up most of that issue of The
    Digest and included another blatent plug for his book, mentioned comments I
    made in an email to him about his book.  Just in case people thought I would
    make such claims publicly rather than privately, I have to point out I use a
    different font to the one produced as evidence by Hal Stone.  You will just
    have to buy the book to find out if the comments are accurate or not.

>     Now I call that high praise indeed. For those of you who don't know about
>     Ian, he is considered to be the Grand Poo Bah of Australian OTR

    Obsessed by Australian OTR is the description you were after Hal, just to
    prove that point, check out my next post.

>     But then again, he is an Aussie, and they definitely march to a different
>     drummer. (Or is it marching to the strains of a didgeridoo?)

    Anyone who has heard a didgeridoo (I hope you spelt that right Hal, I
    haven't a clue) knows that it is not a sound to march by, its more of a
    drinking tune.

>     But what I think will tickle Ian (Hey Ian, the word "tickle" is "American"
>     for pleasing) is that following Ian's post, when he mentiond my book site at
>     least 4 times, I received 4 book orders the following week.

    Book site?  Oh you mean [removed] surely those
    orders were entirely by accident, they probably meant to order Jack French's
    book Private Eyelashes [removed] hang on I better order it first and
    check it out.

    Tickle is a word I am familiar with Hal, I am ticklish.  In other words, the
    four extra sales makes me pleased ish :)

    Ian Grieve

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 08:40:43 -0400
    From: "Austotr" <austotr@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  End of Australian SERIES/SERIALS

    G'Day folks,

    I tend to be obsessed with Australian OTR and you folks here helped me
    become that way, so you need to accept some of the blame.

    When I first tried to research Australian OTR about 5 or more years ago as a
    newcomer to the hobby, there were not many places of reference on the net.
    There was [removed] which lists the National Archive's
    holdings, the Sinclair site with some recordings that could be downloaded,
    but never changed.  There was a site that had the George Edwards
    Frankenstein wav files for download and a story on how the recordings were
    found and the famous incorrect date they were broadcast.

    Then there was the Scifiguy.  He seemed knowledgeable on Australian OTR but
    he didn't like that I listened to mp3s but my options for learning about
    Australian OTR were limited at that time.  I live in a regional area, my
    State is 60% drought declared and only enough water for another 2 years in
    this city and thats after a couple of years of water restrictions already,
    but still I am obsessed with Australian OTR.

    The Scifiguy website has been gone a couple of years now but Gordon
    (scifiguy) did send me a short explanation on Australian OTR, which was the
    same as he had on his site.  One section has plagued me with doubts for
    about 5 years now and recently I have been asking questions about it.

    The statement that concerned me is "Australian OTR drama production came to
    an abrupt end, one day in May 1964, when station 2UW stopped all drama
    production. Within days, all other stations quickly followed their lead."
    Now when I first read it, I believed it, but subsequent research and
    discussions made the statement less likely and so I asked several people,
    one of whom was directly involved.  Please excuse the amount of space this
    is taking on The Digest, but I felt that the record needs to be
    straightened.  So here, thanks to Craig Nugent, Jamie Kelly and Reg James
    and myself is a more accurate explanation.

    The demise of Australian Radio Drama serials.

    This was actually a gradual process over time. For the point of this
    exercise we will stick to the Sydney based radio
    stations as most radio serials and drama production was produced there.

    Television arrived in 1956, and it took many years for this medium to build
    up in home entertainment life, high cost of TV sets being a factor, and most
    programs were little more than radio shows with pictures. Radio stations
    continued to play drama and serials during this time with a close eye on TV
    development and their own ratings. Some radio quiz shows were transferred to
    TV with Pick a Box being the only long term success.

    1958 - Station 2UE adopted the Top 40 format of popular songs and music,
    soon followed by 2GB with "The Big 60", 40 top tunes and 20 predictions,
    both vying for younger audiences. The stations blended their music and
    serials/drama programs. About halfway through 1961 2UE bit the bullet and
    axed all drama/serial programs in favor of music formats.
    2UE were clever and crafty, when a serial ended, it was replaced by a music
    program and by 1962 2UE were all Top 40 format.

    2GB continued to play a mixture of music and serials, although their
    programs were shortened down to be called the Omnibus series, shows like
    Quiz Kids, Leave it to the Girls etc were cut down versions than previously.
    By 1962 most afternoon/evening children's serials were finished, never to
    return.

    June 1964 - The Beatles are here playing to sellout concerts, most stations
    are now Top 40/popular music formats and the "DJ" reigns supreme. However
    2UW are still playing serials/drama and is virtually the only station left
    doing so. They are playing all the women's morning and afternoon serials
    (Portia, Dr Paul etc) and evening serials and SC dramas. They too have their
    music shows such as 2UW on the spot Hit Parade and Alan Toohey's, Ashley's
    popular choice etc.

    However falling ratings, the huge pop music culture, big time radio sponsors
    now defected to TV, 2UW made a [removed] and without any announcement
    axed all radio drama serials, even part way through a serial run. Some
    serials that never finished were Cattleman, 26 Hours to name a couple. This
    all happened on a Monday in Sept. 1964.
    The backlash was incredible, switch boards were jammed, and it made
    newspaper headlines at the time. 2UW never played radio serials ever
    [removed] By the end of 1964 there was virtually no radio drama being
    played on Sydney radio, it had all gone.

    Enter 2CH. They like the other stations had gone over to music formats from
    the late '50's into the '60's. At the end of 1964 and the start of 1965 they
    made an amazing decision to bring back the women's serials, some of which
    2UW had dropped.  It is fair to say if it wasn't for 2CH, serials like Dr
    Paul/Portia would have finished there and then, but entering an agreement
    with Gibson's, they brought back new episodes and played them in a block of
    4 serials between 10 and 11am, 5 days
    a week. They also had a session of 2 quarter hour serials between 12 and
    [removed] From Feb. 8 1965 the new production of Dr Paul/Portia Faces Life
    was aired and from then on these serials were made in blocks of 104 ep
    storylines.

    2CH continued to play serials until 1971 when they were finally all axed in
    favor of an easy listening music format. However in 1968 they held an on air
    survey to gauge interest in continuing the serials and there was sufficient
    response to extend them until 1971. Some of the serials played during this
    time were AWA's serials like, The Wide Staircase, My Hearts Desire, So
    Little Time, My Hidden Heart, and the F J Thwaites serialised stories etc.
    During all this time the ABC still aired radio drama plays and variety
    sessions, they were also playing all the BBC comedy shows like The Goon
    Show, Round the Horne, Hancock's Half Hour etc.  The ABC is still heavily
    involved in Australian Drama and Comedy as well as presenting shows from
    other Countries.

    Television was still arriving in regional areas during the 1970's, so Grace
    Gibson Productions still had large markets with the regionals. Most country
    and regional stations were still playing serials and drama regularly up
    until the early 1970's.

    It is interesting to note that in 1975 2GB resurrected some drama between 9
    and 10pm weeknights under the title "Theatre of the Mind" and this went on
    until half way through 1977 when that was dropped. they then went over to
    News/Talk radio.

    2UE in the mid 1980's played Cattleman, but that lasted for only 6 months.
    The other capital cities went down a similar path.

    It is also interesting to note, that the most successful Grace Gibson
    Production of all time was broadcast in the Mid 1980's, The Castlereagh
    Line.  Reg James of Grace Gibson Productions, was told that it didn't stand
    a chance, radio drama was dead, but that series proved that the audience
    wanted good Radio Drama.  Reg James told me that he attributes most of the
    decline of Radio Drama in Australia to a lack of good writers rather than
    any other reason.  Very few people had the skill to finish an episode on a
    Friday with a Cliffhanger that brought the listeners back on a Monday.

    So radio drama was a slow and gradual decline from the early 1960's onwards,
    and not the sudden overnight disappearance as widely reported nowadays. The
    impact 2UW made in 1964 will go down in history.

    I thank Craig Nugent for the bulk of that information and I hope we have
    explained the situation a little better.  I am happy to report that the
    databasing and logging of Australian OTR has been progressing well and that
    we have databased around 4,200 Australian Series/Serials/Plays.
    [removed] has its next major update due later this month.

    I now return you to your usual discussion.

    Ian Grieve
    Moderator
    Australian Old Time Radio Group

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 08:41:34 -0400
    From: "Derek Tague" <derek@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Jack Benny--Better with Age
    X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative
    X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain

    Oh, what hell have Birthday Guru Ron Sayles wrought when he weighed in with
    his
    list of the 5 worst OTR programmes! Altho' I have tried many times, like Ron,
    I just can't "get into" "Lum 'n' Abner"? That doesn't necessarily make it a
    bad show.
    On the other hand, I especially like "Vic 'n' Sade." These shows must've been
    doing
    something right as today there are organised fan clubs for both L 'n' A and V
    'n' S,
    run by Tim Hollis and Barbara Schwarz, respectively.

    Like it or hate it, "Amos 'n' Andy" is still being talked [removed]
    evidenced by Elizabeth
    McLeod's upcoming svholarly work about them "The Original Amos 'n' Andy." For
    more info, go to  [removed]

    Prof. Sayles also avoids the pre-War "Jack Benny" show. Most folks will agree
    that, verily,
    this show didn't "jel" until after the War. But do keep in mind that this
    meant that the show
    actually got better as it got older. How many shows can one say that about?
    "Fibber"
    was better during the Gildersleeve years as opposed to the "Mayor LaTrivia"
    ones;
    "Superman" was better as a 15-minute serial than as a 30-minute show with
    self-
    contained storylines;  I've heard of folks who won't even acknowlege the
    post-
    Barton Yarborough as Ben Romero "Dragnets."  You get the picture.

    So, Ron, for a person who has been known to sign off with the slogan about
    radio
    being the "theatre of the mind" and television as being the "theatre of the
    mindless,"
    save your venom for where the truly bad programmes [removed] cathode-ray
    tube!

    Ether!

    Derek Tague

      *** This message was altered by the server, and may not appear ***
      ***                  as the sender intended.                   ***

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 15:43:32 -0400
    From: "kclarke5@[removed]" <kclarke5@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  "Defense Attorney"

         The program I meant to refer to starring Mercedes
    McCambridge was "Defense Attorney". It sounds very
    interesting and from what I've seen of her performances,
    I'm sure it was chock full of good performances. Does
    anyone know where I can get a copy of this program,
    either on CD or cassette? If anyone has any information
    regarding this program, I'd appreciate hearing it.

         I'm pretty burned out when it comes to "Perry
    Mason" on OTR, because it often took 10 or more episodes
    to get through just one case. If it were a 1 hour program,
    I might have checked it out further.

         BTW, did Mercedes McCambridge appear on TV or in
    any movies after her time on radio? Her face and voice
    seem quite familiar. The only movie I can remember in
    which she appeared was "Johnny Guitar" with Joan Crawford.
    Surely there were many others.

    Another OTR Fan,

    Kenneth Clarke

    --------------------------------
    End of [removed] Digest V2005 Issue #147
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