Subject: [removed] Digest V2003 #274
From: "OldRadio Mailing Lists" <[removed]@[removed];
Date: 7/13/2003 6:16 PM

To: <[removed]@[removed];

    ------------------------------

                                The Old-Time Radio Digest!
                                  Volume 2003 : Issue 274
                             A Part of the [removed]!
                                     ISSN: 1533-9289

                                     Today's Topics:

      Bastille Day births and deaths        [ Ron Sayles <bogusotr@[removed]; ]
      Re: LONE RANGER transcriptions        [ SanctumOTR@[removed] ]
      Parental Abuse?                       [ "Stephen A Kallis, Jr." <skallisjr@ ]
      Nip                                   [ Ron Sayles <bogusotr@[removed]; ]
      racist language                       [ Howard Blue <khovard@[removed]; ]
      Re: Oy Vey                            [ Elizabeth McLeod <lizmcl@[removed] ]
      Every Now And Again                   [ dantrigg422@[removed] ]
      Re: Robert Batscha RIP                [ "MICHAEL BIEL" <mbiel@[removed]; ]
      calling all cars                      [ "Ed Carr" <edcarr@[removed]; ]
      16 2/3                                [ "Kurt E. Yount" <blsmass@[removed]; ]
      The Height of Political Correctness   [ "Bill and Reva Muhr" <brmuhr@robson ]
      Wartime "Propaganda" and Revisionist  [ John Koeller <koeller@[removed] ]
      Political Correctness and War Storie  [ "Stephen A Kallis, Jr." <skallisjr@ ]

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 14:10:15 -0400
    From: Ron Sayles <bogusotr@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Bastille Day births and deaths

    July 14th births

    07-14-1880 - Donald Meek - Glasgow, Scotland - d. 11-18-1946
    actor: "Lux Radio Theatre"
    07-14-1903 - Ken Murray - Nyack, NY - d. 10-12-1988
    comedian: "Hollywood Hotel"; "Texaco Star Theatre"
    07-14-1904 - Annabella - La Varenne Hilaire, Val-de-Marne, France - d.
    9-18-1996
    actress: "Lux Radio Theatre"
    07-14-1909 - Isabel Jewell - Shoshone, WY - d. 4-5-1972
    actress: "Dr. Kildare"; "NBC Presents: Short Story"
    07-14-1910 - Gloria Stuart - Santa Monica, CA
    actress: "Suspense"
    07-14-1911 - Terry-Thomas - London, England - d. 1-8-1990
    Free lance comedian
    07-14-1912 - Woody Guthrie - Okemah, OK - d. 10-2-1967
    songwriter, singer: "Pursuit of Happiness"
    07-14-1917 - Douglas Edwards - Ada, OK - d. 10-13-1990
    newscaster: "Wendy Warren and the News"
    07-14-1923 - Dale Robertson - Harrah, OK
    actor: "Lux Radio Theatre"
    07-14-1927 - John Chancellor - Chicago, IL - d. 7-12-1996
    newscaster: WMAQ Chicago, NBC
    07-14-1928 - Nancy Olson - Milwaukee, WI
    actress: "Lux Radio Theatre"; "Dimension X"
    07-14-1939 - Gary Yoggy
    author, olde tyme radio historian: "Riding the Video Range"

    July 14th deaths

    08-24-1900 - Preston Foster - Ocean City, NJ - d. 7-14-1970
    actor: "NBC University Theatre"
    09-05-1910 - Kenny Delmar - Boston, MA - d. 7-14-1984
    actor: Beauregard Claghorn "Fred Allen Show"; Commissioner Weston "The Shadow"
    11-11-1892 - Al Schacht - NYC - d. 7-14-1984
    sportscaster: ( The Clown Prince of Baseball) "Al Schacht"s Sports Show"
    --
    Ron Sayles
    Milwaukee, Wisconsin
    Hometown of [removed] Kaltenborn and Jay Jostyn

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 14:19:57 -0400
    From: SanctumOTR@[removed]
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Re: LONE RANGER transcriptions

    In a message dated 7/12/03 2:22:51 PM, [removed]@[removed]
    writes:

> >     In 1932 The lone Ranger was pressed on 16" platters and pressed for the NBC
> >     thesaurus program syndication.

    <snip>

>     Thesaurus didn't become available until about late 1934, or that's when it
>     was first advertised in trade magazines, and it didn't contain any LR eps. A
>     quick glance through the Joyce Record Club Thesaurus catalog reveals no such
>     entries.

    ***Not only that, but THE LONE RANGER didn't even debut until January 31,
    1933 or February 2, 1933.  (Personally, I support the second date.)  And it
    initially aired only over WXYZ and Michigan stations.  Aas Joe Salerno
    correctly
    points out, the series wasn't regularly transcribed until January 17, 1938.
    Saul, where did your information come from? --Anthony Tollin

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 14:20:27 -0400
    From: "Stephen A Kallis, Jr." <skallisjr@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Parental Abuse?

    PURKASZ@[removed] , commenting upon what may or not be a racial slur,
    changed focus by noting,

>     What about all those Moms who destroyed our comic books!!!

    Well, forget comics for a second and let's turn our attention to
    something more OTR related: radio premiums.  As a rule, moms of the
    period in many cases thought radio premiums silly toys, and found excuses
    for getting rid of them.  I recall that my mother talked me into
    departing with my Code-O-Graphs because we were moving to Japan (my
    father was stationed over there after a year in Korea).  She claimed that
    I couldn't take them because the U. S. Army wouldn't allow devices that
    could be used to send secret code messages.  Well, I was 15 years old and
    bought it.

    I don't resent that she did it, although it took me several hundred
    dollars to rebuild my collection years later.  Retrospectively, I admire
    her creativity.  Nothing else could have pried those treasures from my
    sweaty little 15-year-old fingers; just imagined Government restrictions.

    It's a natural process that there always has been and always will be a
    generation gap, particularly a familial one.  It's just a shame that the
    victims are often prized childhood items.

    Stephen A. Kallis, Jr.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 14:20:46 -0400
    From: Ron Sayles <bogusotr@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Nip

    Kenneth Clarke asks:

>     There was one I hadn't heard
>     before which I wish someone would explain to me off list.
>     The term was "Nip".  Does this also refer to the Japanese?

    The Japanese call their island Nippon or Nihon. "Nip" is as bad as "Jap." It
    is meant in the same context.

    Ron Sayles
    Milwaukee, Wisconsin
    Hometown of [removed] Kaltenborn and Jay Jostyn

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 14:37:19 -0400
    From: Howard Blue <khovard@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  racist language

    Craig Wichman (Wich2@[removed]) warned against  what he called "Creeping
    Presentism" which he said does a grave disservice to Oboler, Corwin, &
    Welles etc. who worked hard to rally the Homefront in an almost sacred
    crusade against Japan and Germany. He then went on to suggest that such
    phenomena as The Rape of Nanking (and Nazi genocide) should not be put on
    the same moral footing with the Japanese interment camps. I concur,
    although I think it's a mistake to pit one human rights violation against
    another. There is no Nobel Prize for victimhood. It's more useful for all
    moral people to stand firm in defense of human rights and condemn all
    perpetrators of human riights violations ---regardless of their
    nationality. Unfortunately, as wartime radio demonstrates, in the name of
    boosting morale, sometimes we humans go to extremes in vilyifing the
    enemy. But it was wrong then as it is still wrong.

    Craig also suggested that various atrocities and genocidal acts by the
    Japanese and the Nazis (and one might add to this, atrocities such as the
    genocide conducted in Cambodia by Pol Pot, the mass killings of American
    Indians by the US army etc. ) should be considered as inhuman. I totally
    agree with him here too.

    But I part company with anyone who suggests that the individuals who
    conducted these acts should be considered inhuman. The ACTS can properly
    be considered inhuman -- but not the perpetrators. Unfortunately as
    experience in Cambodia, Vietnam, the Nazi death camps etc. shows, humans
    are all too capable of doing what we consider inhuman. But we should not
    castigate all members of a national group because of the abuses carried
    out by a sub-group of that nationality.

    One last point -- Craig wrote "Let's not patronize the Writers,
    Directors, et al, of the time, by patting them on the head and inferring
    that they acted like provincial rubes  in their hard-won battles of the
    1940's."

    I don't recall anyone patronizing Corwin etc. on the digest. In fact
    Corwin, for one, was not responsible for  behaving like a "provincial
    rube." In my extensive study of his plays, I can't recall any instance
    where he expressed the racism that some of his colleagues did. Oboler on
    the other hand did fall victim to the cheap (racist) shot in at least one
    (odd) instance. It occurred during his commentary about a play in which
    he made a plea for understanding for the Japanese Americans who had
    endured the internment camps in the US --He commented "I bring you this
    play not because I am a lover of those slant eyed individuals who raped
    [removed] because ......

    Howard Blue
    [removed]

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 16:00:48 -0400
    From: Elizabeth McLeod <lizmcl@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Re: Oy Vey

    On 7/13/03 2:13 PM OldRadio Mailing Lists wrote:

>     BTW -- the Moel accidentally gave me a bias [removed]

    In the six years I've been a member of this Digest, the above comment
    stands as the single funniest thing I've ever read.

    Mr. Singer, I salute you. And you have my sympathies for what must have
    been the Unkindest Cut of All.

    Elizabeth

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 19:27:58 -0400
    From: dantrigg422@[removed]
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Every Now And Again
    X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative
    X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain

    It seems to me that every so often we drift back to "Racist Terms" in OTR
    programs.
    The "Slurs" we have been discussing were accepted by the majority of the
    public at
    that time or they would not have been used. That was then, this is now. Times
    change,hopefully for the better. I would say that for the most part the said
    terms are not accepted now. Unless we want to edit these shows they will
    always be there.
    The folks who have reason to be offended should not listen to these shows,
    because they ain't gonna change.
    I understand that some folks have reason to be offended, but then some folks
    go out of thier way to be offended.
    Sincerely.
    Dan

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    ------------------------------

    Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 19:30:32 -0400
    From: "MICHAEL BIEL" <mbiel@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Re: Robert Batscha RIP

    I was surprised to see Sean Dougherty's note about Robert Batscha's
    passing.  How did I miss knowing about this, since he died on July 4th.
    But I was even more surprised to read David Hinckley's short article about
    him in the [removed] Daily News.  We seem to have had two opposite perceptions
    of radio's position in the Museum of TV and Radio, and I think that this
    merits discussion in this forum.  If Charlie will agree, I'll print the
    short article here (because it might not be available in the future when
    these digests are consulted) and then I'll print the response I wrote to
    Hinckley.  If I get a response from him I will forward it later, and I
    would like to get the responses of those in this forum.  I do want to
    preface my statement by saying that I intend it here as constructive
    criticism for the management of the MTV&R to consider as they now move into
    a different phase of their history.  Now is the chance to become more
    meaningful to radio historians.

    Michael Biel  mbiel@[removed]
    =====================
    [removed]
    To a friend of radio, RIP

    As president of the Museum of Television and Radio for two decades, Robert
    Batscha was that semi-rare media historian who didn't let radio disappear
    in the shadow of television.

    While much of the museum's growth during his tenure focused on television,
    it did not ignore its radio collection. Several years ago, it launched a
    radio festival, and it has played host to a number of live radio shows
    -most recently Harry Harrison's final broadcast on WCBS-FM.

    The preservation of radio history has been so fragmented that institutions
    like the museum are critical, and under Batscha, radio's unique value was
    not ignored.

    Batscha died of cancer on July 4, at age 58. He will be missed.

    David Hinckley  Originally published on July 12, 2003

    ===========================

    David Hinckley---

    I have to disagree with some of your statements in your July 12 column
    mentioning Robert Batscha and what you perceive to be a devotion to radio
    during his tenure at the MTV&R. It has long been the perception of many of
    us scholars of broadcast history that Batscha DID let radio disappear in
    the shadow of television. Just look at all the broadcast specials the
    museum produced that focus ONLY on television. Look at the list of titles
    of their university satellite seminar series. They have all related to
    television even when there could also have been a radio component to
    include, such as in the recent topics of war coverage, censorship and
    controversy, etc. Several years ago I commented on this to the coordinator
    of these seminars, but nothing has changed. When there has been a festival
    devoted to a broadcaster or entertainer whose career spanned both radio and
    television, the materials and presentations greatly emphasized television.
    That you had to specifically mention their radio festival is an indication
    that they had to go out of their way to do something related to radio--and
    do it separately. It was one event out of many--all the others related to
    television. And it was noted by many as to how it emphasized NYC
    personalities that were still around and often still in the business.
    (Maybe their current employers chipped in on the bill?) Was there a seminar
    that included, say, the late Pete Meyers? There are no recordings of him in
    the MTV&R. But now there is even a newly released CD of his Mad Daddy
    airchecks. How could they do a study of NYC radio without him? But they did.

    Batscha knew where the money was. It was in television. Did he ever throw
    one of those big lavish celebrity-studded banquets to celebrate radio? Of
    course not. All the big celebs are TV and movie stars. He had to find
    somewhere to get all the money to buy the real estate and build the lavish
    buildings in the heart of two very expensive cities.

    I am completely puzzled as to what you mean by the preservation of radio
    history being so "fragmented." Do you mean that there are some individual
    private collectors who have larger collections of radio programs than does
    the MTV&R? That fact is true. But I don't know if that would make the area
    "fragmented." These private and corporate collectors regularly come
    together in a series of annual conferences, such as the Friends of Old Time
    Radio which meet every fall in Newark. There are numerous websites devoted
    to radio history, and the publication of books on radio history recently
    seem almost to outnumber TV history books. Several hundred of us read a
    daily internet "Old Time Radio Digest" (which is where I found out about
    your article) and this has become a forum where many researchers and
    scholars have exchanged vital information--and fans can come to get answers
    to even their simplest questions. And among the scholarly community we
    quickly learned that the MTV&R was NOT the place to go to find reserch
    materials because the collection was too SMALL. We go to the Library of
    Congress where their collection of broadcast recordings is between 5 and 10
    times larger than the MTV&R. The National Archives also dwarfs the MTV&R in
    its size and scope. And what's more, these insititutions and others like
    UCLA, Univ of Maryland, SPERVAC, and others, attempt to preserve the
    original materials, not only just copies like the MTV&R which maintain NO
    original materials. In fact, much of the MTV&R's collection was selected
    and borrowed from these other institutions and private collectors.

    Batscha was a nice guy. I'd enjoyed talking to him over the years. But a
    champion of radio preservation? Hardly.

    Michael Biel, [removed]
    Professor, Radio-Television
    Morehead State University

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 19:31:13 -0400
    From: "Ed Carr" <edcarr@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  calling all cars

    hi to all
    this is part of the story,all times are approximate as time is
    fleetingfleating
    (nuts), anyway in the 1970s those cac were found by 2 fellows, 1 of whom i
    knew, they were recorded by these 2 and put on tape, about 25 reels worth
    i don't know if they recorded them independly or together, the sound wasn't
    the greatest as set by todays standards.
    a few yrs ago a fellow approched a buddy in ca and offered them to him,
    and i assume others,he called me while the guy was there and i said i'll
    take [removed] here is a funny party, another dealer calls me and said
    i could have had them but i wasn't home, i believe he wanted them to fill
    in his missing discs (1-1/2sets?) but i wanted  to sell all after they were
    recorded , i sold a few off, not many, then sold them all in one bunchbatch?
    now rumors are that some lady owned them, and apparently had more than
    one set, this is all within california, in fact as i write this it comes to
    mind
    that 1 fellow was a member of sperdvac? i can't get that right, more than
    likely both were, i know 1 fellow was a member of that organization pacific
    pioneers, i am sure the one fellow could enlighten this a bit further,as the
    other died.
    ed

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 17:17:22 -0400
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject: 16 2/3
    From: "Kurt E. Yount" <blsmass@[removed];

    On another list, we were talking about 16 2/3 RPM speed.  Were these ever
    used in radio for anything?  I know about the use of this speed by the
    blind, but was it used in radio, or was it too poor a quality?  Kurt

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 20:01:57 -0400
    From: "Bill and Reva Muhr" <brmuhr@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  The Height of Political Correctness
    X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative
    X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain

    Go to the Fox Movie Channel website (see below) and check out how the Fox
    Movie Channel "executives" have wimped out on a planned Charlie Chan Mystery
    Tour that featured a double feature every Monday through Labor Day. They make
    note of the fact that many "subscribers" to subject channel have requested
    this be done because of the positive aspects of these films. Howsomeever,guess
    what? PC rears its ugly head again and there will be no Charlie Chan Mystery
    Tour on Fox Movie Channel. If you have a comment or two (I've already sent
    mine.),then you may send to [removed]. As the past couple of
    days have shown us in this great Digest,PC is taking over our everyday
    personal processes with constant mewling and puking about something that
    allegedly will offend someone.  As Charlie Brown says,"GOOD GRIEF!"  Bill Muhr
    Tucson,AZ

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    ------------------------------

    Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 20:03:56 -0400
    From: John Koeller <koeller@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Re: Wartime "Propaganda" and Revisionist History

    On July 13, 2003, Doug Leary wrote:

>     Here is a link to an interesting article online about some WWII propaganda
>     created by the British Foreign Office .......and I can't vouch for the
>     organization itself.
>     [removed]

    Well, in order to "vouch" or NOT "vouch", all one has to do is read the
    material posted on the website to see that this is one of the ultimates in
    promoting revisionist history!  Such as:  the Holocaust never happened, the
    Jews are responsible for 9-11, and on and on and on.  Why are we even
    considering such tripe as worthy of our time?

    Thank you to our faithful administrator for getting us back to OTR!

    John Koeller
    Yorba Linda, Calif

    [removed] I am a "Kraut" and happy to be one!  No more politically correct
    analysis regarding what happened 60 years ago unless you were there, please!

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 19:29:12 -0400
    From: "Stephen A Kallis, Jr." <skallisjr@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Political Correctness and War Stories

    Herb Harrison, remarking on my comment on first finding out that "Jap"
    was considered a derogatory term by Nipponese, while on my way to Honshu,
    notes,

>     I do remember going to Saturday matinee movies with my brothers in the
>     early 50's to see 3rd/4th-run WWII-era movies starring John Wayne,
>     [removed];Baltimore, Maryland: Admission 14 cents; popcorn 5 cents; candy or
>     soda 5-7 cents> The terms Jap; dirty Jap; Nip; etc. were common in these
>     films, and we accepted them as they were intended: derogatory. Our
>     parents and adult neighbors sometimes used the same terms when describing
>     the (then) low-quality imported toys and household goods imported from
>     Japan, as if "junk" was all that could be expected from a defeated,
>     non-western nation.

    Well, several points here.  One is that any short term is frequently used
    (Yank, Brit, Scot, etc.) as a tag, nothing more.  But it would be
    astonishing if, during the period of a years-long war, if the term used
    might have been just a tag, to take on derogatory connotations if that
    nationality was an enemy.  In a film about a recent war, it's most
    unlikely that someone would veer off so far from historical context

    With regards to "junk," there were many cheap items around before the
    Pearl Harbor attack that were made in Japan.  A lot of these were of
    dubious quality, and some contemporaneous humor reflected that.  So that
    they were a defeated non-western nation wasn't the issue.

>     I also remember reading "war story" comic books during the Korean War
>     that described the North Korean and Chinese enemies as gooks; chinks;
>     commies; and yellow-(any combination of the above).
>     I guess that was "politically correct" for the era, but it wasn't
>     right.

    This is misunderstanding the (IMHO silly) practice of Political
    Correctness.  The concept of Political Correctness wasn't around in the
    1950s and 1960s.  The idea of PC was and is to adapt the language so as
    not to be hurtful or offensive.  A laudable goal, but often misapplied.
    A Seminole Chief who was on the air recently in Tampa objected to the
    term "Native American," and said his tribe preferred "Indian," which was
    inclusive of all tribes.  In a company where I worked, I chatted with an
    Osage who said roughly the same.  I feel that imposing one's own idea of
    what's proper for another group is, in the long run, not very
    constructive.  But with regards to "war story" comics, they'd reflect
    what people were likely to say in the depicted circumstances.

    Craig Wichman had previously observed,

>     If the above listed things (which are only the tip of the iceberg -
>     let's leave to the side the Bataan Death March, Hari-Kari, and the
>     Kamikazes) don't qualify as "in-" or at least, "un-" or "non-" humanE,
>     than nothing does.

    Well, Hara-Kiri and the Kamikaze were self-inflicted.  The Kamikazes in
    particular were a weapon of desperation to try to stop, or at least slow
    down the advance of the Allies in the Pacific.

    With regards to depictions of Japanese "inhumane" actions on OTR, I think
    many paralleled stories coming from the battlefields.

    Stephen A. Kallis, Jr.

    --------------------------------
    End of [removed] Digest V2003 Issue #274
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