Subject: [removed] Digest V2003 #373
From: <[removed]@[removed]>
Date: 10/15/2003 5:49 PM
To: <[removed]@[removed];

------------------------------


                            The Old-Time Radio Digest!
                              Volume 2003 : Issue 373
                         A Part of the [removed]!
                                 ISSN: 1533-9289


                                 Today's Topics:

  10-16 births/deaths                   [ Ron Sayles <bogusotr@[removed]; ]
  No Captain Midnight Premium           [ "Stephen A Kallis, Jr." <skallisjr@ ]
  Another take on Lum and Abner         [ Ehutchison@[removed] ]
  Re: "Farkin'"                         [ Elizabeth McLeod <lizmcl@[removed] ]
  Ciro's                                [ JimBourg@[removed] ]
  Re: Here's Morgan                     [ Dixonhayes@[removed] ]
  It's Ciro's, Jen                      [ "Michael Hayde" <mmeajv@[removed]; ]
  Re: OTR announcers in movie promos    [ Dixonhayes@[removed] ]
  Hits and Errors                       [ Jack & Cathy French <otrpiano@erols ]
  Zero's                                [ Ed Loyer <eloyer@[removed]; ]
  accents                               [ "Mark Kinsler" <kinsler33@[removed] ]
  HOLLYWOOD RESTAURANT SCENE            [ PURKASZ@[removed] ]
  Radios and Antennas                   [ "RBB" <oldradio@[removed]; ]
  re "hamburger sandwich"               [ Froggievilleus <froggievilleus@yaho ]
  comments re Digest 372                [ "B. J. Watkins" <kinseyfan@hotmail. ]
  Henry Morgan                          [ "David Howell" <DHowell@northampton ]
  Re: Zeroes?                           [ Steve Salaba <philmfan@[removed] ]
  Ciro's                                [ Kermyt Anderson <kermyta@[removed]; ]
  seeking Jerry Burling                 [ benohmart@[removed] ]
  Robert Arthur on radio                [ Rick Keating <pkeating89@[removed]; ]

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 09:29:18 -0400
From: Ron Sayles <bogusotr@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  10-16 births/deaths

October 16th births

10-16-1900 - Lloyd Corrigan - San Francisco, CA - d. 11-7-1969
actor: Judge Hunter "One Man"s Family"
10-16-1921 - Linda Darnell - Dallas, TX - d. 4-10-1965
actress: "Hollywood Premiere"; "So You Want to Lead a Band"
10-16-1925 - Angela Lansbury - London, England
actress: "NBC University Theatre"

October 16th deaths

07-31-1911 - George Liberace - Menasha, WI - d. 10-16-1983
sideman: Orrin Tucker Band, Anson Weeks Band
08-30-1907 - Shirley Booth - NYC - d. 10-16-1992
actress: Miss Duffy "Duffy"s Tavern"; "Hogan"s Daughter"; "Strictly Business"
10-18-1892 - Leo G. Carroll - Weedon Northants, England - d. 10-16-1972
actor: Lux Radio Theatre
12-14-1914 - Dan Dailey - NYC - d. 10-16-1978
singer, actor: "King"s Men"; "Philip Morse Playhouse"

Ron Sayles
Milwaukee, Wisconsin

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 10:28:03 -0400
From: "Stephen A Kallis, Jr." <skallisjr@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  No Captain Midnight Premium

Dan Hughes reminisces,

I have faint memories of what I think was a Captain Midnight premium I
had when I was a kid, and I'd like you to verify that my memory isn't yet
totally shot.  This was from the TV show:  a pair of binoculars that
strapped to your head with an elastic band, so you could peruse the skies
for enemy aircraft without using your hands!  I remember how cool I
thought I was, wearing those riduculous binoculars as I swaggered up and
down the sidewalk.  Am I dreaming?

I don't believe that he's dreaming, yet I don't believe it was a Captain
Midnight TV premium.  The closest match I can make of this is a Space
Patrol set of Space Binoculars, which performed this function.  It
appears to have been an in-store premium.  It had a plastic
shade-and-headband arrangement with the "binoculars" built in.  The photo
of the one I've seen didn't show the elastic band, but it could have had
one.

FWIW, most "binoculars" are optically "opera glasses"; that is, two
low-power Galilean telescopes attached together.  The Captain Midnight
1947 Spy Scope radio premium was another Galilean.

Stephen A. Kallis, Jr.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 10:28:19 -0400
From: Ehutchison@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Another take on Lum and Abner
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Irene recently asked about an expression from a 1938 Lum and Abner broadcast.
 I believe the term being used was "sparking."  Abner was advising Lum not to
"start sparking" at some new woman, meaning he was not to start getting
"romantical notions."

I grew up in upstate NY and can recall visits to MS during the 50's when
people here yet spoke in very colorful terms.  My elderly great aunts would
say
things like, "Oh, Lord a mercy, come here honey child and give me some
sugar."
The expressions and idioms even that late made it somewhat difficult for
people from different parts of the country to understand each other.
Nevertheless,
the colorful language added great local flavor to various regions of the
country and certainly made travel more of an adventure. Thanks, I suppose, to
the
fact that we all listen to Dan Rather and his ilk,  Americans have come to
speak more alike.  The advent of a national media and its concomitant decline
in
regional speech variations is further proof that not all that we call
[removed]

Edward Hutchison
Madison, MS

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 10:28:48 -0400
From: Elizabeth McLeod <lizmcl@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  Re: "Farkin'"

On 10/15/03 9:45 AM [removed]@[removed] wrote:

Another expression used in Lum'n Abner is what sounds like 'farking'.
Does anyone know what that means?    Today, it seems to be used as a
substitute for that other 'f' word, but in that same transatlantic episode
Abner asks Lum about the woman he met on the ship and Lum says he's "farkin
(?) her on the side" which leads to Abner's 'hop the broomstick' comment.

I think Lum is probably saying "sparkin'," with it sounding like
something else because of poor audio. To "spark" is a common bit of rural
dialect referring to the practice of pitching woo.

"Lum and Abner" is a wonderful ground for exploring dialect -- and I've
found it quite interesting to compare the language used in the program
with the language used in "Amos 'n' Andy." Sociolinguists have documented
a great deal of cross-pollination between "Black English" and "Southern
English," with a lot of the characteristics we think of as
characteristically Southern (the perfective "done", for example, or
copula reduction -- "We goin'" instead of "We're goin'") actually having
genuine African roots. An absolutely fascinating scholarly article
examing the ties between these dialects is found in Chapter 5 of J. L.
Dillards's 1972 book "Black English: Its History and Usage In The United
States."

Elizabeth

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 10:44:19 -0400
From: JimBourg@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Ciro's
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  I keep hearing about this Los Angeles restaurant while listening to
Jack Benny, Burns and Allen, etc.  It seems to be rather famous (or
infamous), but I can't find a website that mentions the place, no matter how
I spell the name (Zero's, 00s, etc.) - is/was it real?  Can anyone point me
to further information?
Ciro's

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 10:47:13 -0400
From: Dixonhayes@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Re: Here's Morgan

Henry Morgan (comedian) seems to have had a difficult time in later life.
He appeared as a spokesman for an organization of divorced men who had been
treated unfairly in court.  Somewhat later, his picture was featured in a
small advertisement in Popular Science magazine for National Radio
Institute's appliance repair program.

On the other hand, he did continue to make TV appearances into the '70s, on
shows like the Wally Bruner/Larry Blyden version of "What's My Line?" and the
70s version of "Match Game."  He also frequently appeared on talk shows like
"The Tomorrow Show" and I think even "Late Night With David Letterman."  (I
always thought Letterman's on-camera attitude made him the modern-day
Morgan.)  And don't forget those three 1979 "Sears Radio Theatre" sketch
comedies on CBS Radio, obviously not the edgiest thing you'll ever hear but
entertaining nonetheless.

Still, it's a shame Morgan never got his full due.  I always thought he was
radio's most underrated comedian ever.

Dixon

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 10:47:07 -0400
From: "Michael Hayde" <mmeajv@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  It's Ciro's, Jen

My buddy, Jennifer Pope wrote:

     I keep hearing about this Los Angeles restaurant while listening to
Jack Benny, Burns and Allen, etc.   I can't find a website that mentions
the place, no matter how I spell the name (Zero's, 00s, etc.) - is/was it
real?

It sure was - it's Ciro's, which was a nightclub on Sunset Boulevard.  When
I lived in LA in the 1980's, Ciro's was long gone, but the building remained
as The Comedy Store.  I presume that's still true.  There's a moment in a
Martin & Lewis show from August 1949 - Sheldon Leonard is trying to convince
the boys that they should buy their own nightclub because, "You guys are
bringing in a lotta dough to that Cy-ro's [removed]"  This
mis-pronounciation gets a huge laugh from the (Hollywood) studio audience,
but must've gone over the heads of everybody else in America.

Michael "Your ride to FOTR" Hayde

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 10:53:14 -0400
From: Dixonhayes@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Re: OTR announcers in movie promos

 The voice talent we used included
Fred Foy, Jackson Beck, Norman Rose, Dan Ingram, and one of our company's
execs, Don LaFontaine.  Off the top of my head I know that Fred and Don can
be heard on the spots for "You Only Live Twice."

Some of the original trailers I've seen on DVD (and back when they aired
them, AMC) appeared to feature the obvious voices of Ken Carpenter and Art
Gilmore on many films from the 1950s.  Gilmore, especially, appears to pop up
a lot narrating sci-fi movie previews.

Dixon

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 10:54:30 -0400
From: Jack & Cathy French <otrpiano@[removed];
To: OTRBB <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  Hits and Errors

Thanks to Paul Thompson and Lisa Kohn for their updates on Sondra Gair,
radio's first "Jane Sherlock." Last week I  finished my section on that
series for my upcoming book, "Private Eyelashes; Radio's Lady
Detectives" which will be out on Valentine's Day, 2004.  In answer to
Lisa's inquiry about Gair's interest in journalism, it dates back to
her college days. Gair, a native of Cicero, IL,  graduated from
Northwestern University with a major in dramatic arts and a minor in
journalism.  Forty years later, she told an interviewer that her intent
was to pursue the first field she found work in, and that was Chicago
radio. Of course, she  was delighted to combine her two choices of
careers at WBEZ later in her life.

Kudos to Martin Grams, Jr., and particularly Stewart Wright, for
explaining the difficult and painful process of compiling OTR facts,
and that the dedicated resolve to find the truth constitutes the
driving force in the research and writing of not only Martin and
Stewart, but also John Dunning, Jim Cox, etc.

Many years ago, when Dunning was researching "On The Air", he phoned me
out of the blue. I was delighted and flattered since, although I knew
of him, I had no idea he had ever heard of me. He asked me to discuss
my recent research on two series, Bobby Benson and Candy  Matson. He
was gracious, thorough, fair-minded, and scrupulously determined to get
factual data. He used much of what I provided him with, and later
thanked me in the book's acknowledgments.

Stewart is also "right on the button"  in highlighting two serious
problems in OTR research. One is the imperfect memories of the OTR cast
and crew members, and the second is the error that gets in print that
is virtually impossible to erase from our  collective knowledge.

Example 1)  Sondra Gair in the 70s, recalled being on Jack Armstrong as
well as Sky King. While she was on the former, she was certainly not on
Sky King. That Chicago series began in October 1946 after she went to
the West Coast, and when she returned to the Windy City nine years
later, it was no longer on the air.

Example 2)  Years ago, relying on the painstaking research of Gordon E.
Kelley, a renown Sherlockian, I copied his dates of the second run of
"Meet Miss Sherlock", 9/28/47 to 10/26/47. Alas, a year later, when
transmitting the dates to Jay Hickerson for his "Ultimate Guide", I
missed a typo which changed the Sept date to 1946. Jim Cox, using these
dates from Jay's book, inadvertently repeated the error in his "Radio
Crime Fighters."

My apologies to [removed]

Jack French
Editor: RADIO RECALL

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 10:54:38 -0400
From: Ed Loyer <eloyer@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Zero's

I think Jack is referring to Ciro's the famous nightclub on Sunset Blvd. in
Hollywood. It was the gathering place for the "stars" in the 30's, 40's,
and 50's. Ed Loyer

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 11:26:12 -0400
From: "Mark Kinsler" <kinsler33@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  accents

As for Ohio. In 1956 when I started college in central Ohio there were a
couple of expressions I found amusing.    They called brown paper bags
'sacks' and asked 'Do you want off at the next corner' instead of 'Do you
want to get off'

-Irene

Hasn't changed.  Yesterday the librarian asked us if we wanted a sack for
our books.

As for OTR and dialects, I suppose I was thinking of sitcoms and announcers
as much as anything.  Radio people are, of course, voice actors, which means
that the best can change their speech to sound like they're from utterly
anywhere.

The majority of my radio listening is programs like "When Radio Was," whose
programs don't seem to go back earlier than about 1944 and are mostly from
the '50's.  (I suppose this is because of the sound quality and social
content of earlier shows.)

Ms McLeod commented that the 'correct English' movement didn't hit radio
until the '40's.  Thus the majority of OTR I have heard has little regional
speech, including the most popular shows: Dragnet, Fibber McGee, Jack Benny,
Henry Aldrich, Tales of the Texas Rangers (no accents???), One Man's Family
and earlier soaps, X-1 and them, and the various Westerns (except for
character actors.)  Even Matt Dillon must have come from Toledo or
somewhere.  Chester, however, was from rural Missouri, at least in the TV
version.

Seems like the practice carried directly into television.  Except for
suppressed New York and moderate New England accents, I can't think of any
regionality showing up in relatively serious roles prior to "The Real
McCoys."

M Kinsler

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 12:12:11 -0400
From: PURKASZ@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  HOLLYWOOD RESTAURANT SCENE
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        Jennifer writes of hearing the Benny program make reference to a
restaurant she thinks sounds like Zeros.
     In fact it is/was the Sunset Blvd. eatery known as Ciro's
     I used to drive by it many times in the late 60s.  Then it turned into
The Roxy I think.
     The Mogambo on Sunset, another famed hangout of the Hollywood set became
the Comedy Store.
     Alas, it seems that by the time I got to Hollywood in 1969 many of the
famed spots had become something else or were no longer there.
     The Brown Derby on Vine Street was still there but the original on
Wilshire was closed though the huge Derby stood tattered and forlorn for many
years.
     Musso & Franks is alive and well and as of last January still featured
waiters that remembered me and an excellent NY steak from the wood burning
fire
by the counter.
     Hope this helps Jennifer and perhaps she will write me off line and let
me in on her research regarding Ciro's.
                     <A
HREF="[removed],+Michael+C.">Michael C. Gwynne</A>

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 16:28:46 -0400
From: "RBB" <oldradio@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  Radios and Antennas

<<Regarding the recent posts on shortwave radios, AM reception and
antennas>>>

I received my C. Crane Company catalog today listing a good selection of
multi-band, world band radios and reasonable prices for several Sangean
AM/FM/SW models.

There is a section on getting started listening to shortwave; some books on
world band radio; a list of SW frequencies by country.  A variety of
antennas for AM, FM, TV, SW (and a portable SW antenna I've not seen
before.) are included and details on using all their products.
[removed]

(I have no association with or interest in the C. Crane company.)

Russ Butler  oldradio@[removed]

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 16:28:58 -0400
From: Froggievilleus <froggievilleus@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  re "hamburger sandwich"

The movie that Dixon referred to that was MSTied was
"I Accuse My Parents", which is available on VHS or
DVD for the MST3K version.  I am not sure if the
original version is available.

I am a huge MSTie fan and know that particular episode
very well.  It was the earliest film they did and the
story revolves around a young high school guy named
Jimmy (who looks in his early 30s) who ends up getting
into trouble because his parents didn't pay enough
attention to him.  If you get a chance to see the
MST3K version, I say go for it.  It is hilarious.

Oh, and I just looked it up.  The movie was originally
released in 1944.

Elizabeth S.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 16:30:24 -0400
From: "B. J. Watkins" <kinseyfan@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  comments re Digest 372

In the latest issue #372 I found several items which tug at me for a
comment. (Any comments from Craig, who grew up just down the road a piece?)

Irene Heinstein wrote:

As for Ohio. In 1956 when I started college in central Ohio there were a
couple of expressions I found amusing.    They called brown paper bags
'sacks' and asked 'Do you want off at the next corner' instead of 'Do you
want to get off'

As for "brown paper bags" They were sacks when I lived in Ohio and are still
sacks here in California. Is that really different elsewhere?

And wanting "off" without "getting" off is just fine with me. How do you
feel about "Let me off here."?

I'd be surprised if "sacks" and "off" didn't appear quite often in radio
dramas during the golden age (to put us back on topic).

Then Jennifer Pope asked:

I keep hearing about this Los Angeles restaurant while listening to
Jack Benny, Burns and Allen, etc.  It seems to be rather famous (or
infamous), but I can't find a website that mentions the place, no matter
how I spell the name (Zero's, 00s, etc.) - is/was it real?

It was Ciro's, on the Sunset Strip if I recall correctly.

Al Girard pointed out:

You could care less?  How much less could you care?  Not trying to be
picky, but the correct term is couldn't care less.

True, but "could care less" is used so often that soon it will be
interchangeable like "Flammable" and "Inflammable", meaning the same thing.

Just curious, how many of you grew up saying "futher" instead of "further"?
I wonder if anyone ever said that in a radio drama?

Barbara

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 16:30:33 -0400
From: "David Howell" <DHowell@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  Henry Morgan

Henry Morgan was a panelist on the TV show "I've Got A Secret" from 1952
to 1976 (according to one website), so he was at least working steadily
in later life, even if he could not use his acerbic wit as he could on
his radio show.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 16:31:12 -0400
From: Steve Salaba <philmfan@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Re: Zeroes?

At 9:45 AM -0400 10/15/03, Jennifer Pope asks:

but I can't find a website that mentions the place, no matter how
I spell the name (Zero's, 00s, etc.) - is/was it real?  Can anyone point me
to further information?

I think the spelling is "Ciro's". I'm sure the rest of the gang here has
more info.
--
Steve Salaba

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 16:56:26 -0400
From: Kermyt Anderson <kermyta@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Ciro's

In response to Jennifer Pope's inquiry: The restuarant
was called Ciro's. The building still exists--it's the
Comedy Store now--and is allegedly haunted. Check out
[removed]

Kermyt

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 16:58:57 -0400
From: benohmart@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  seeking Jerry Burling

My friend, Paul Rapp, son of writer Phil Rapp, needs to get in touch with Jerry Burling of 
Sperdvac quickly, about some audio work he did for him. If someone here could get me 
Jerry's phone # privately, I'll pass it on to Paul. Thanks much. 

Ben Ohmart

The Information Please book
[removed]

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 17:50:00 -0400
From: Rick Keating <pkeating89@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Robert Arthur on radio

Does anyone know if Robert Arthur, co-creator of the
Mysterious Traveller and writer for it and other
shows, has ever been heard on the air on any radio
program? I am the host of the Jones Salvage Yard
message board,
[removed]  a site
dedicated to Arthur's excellent mystery series, Alfred
Hitchcock and the Three Investigators, and some of us
have wondered, given Arthur's work in radio, if he was
ever heard on the air. A fellow poster to the Salvage
Yard recently heard an episode of "Murder by Experts"
in which Arthur's partner, David Kogan, accepted an
award on behalf of himself, Arthur, and others who've
worked on the program. So, that got us wondering
again.

It then occurred to me that someone here might know
whether Robert Arthur was ever heard on a radio show,
and if so, which one.

Speaking of The Three Investigators, Arthur's story
The Mystery of the Screaming Clock (he wrote nine
stories in the series, which he also created, before
his death in 1969) has some OTR-related thread running
through the plot.

Rick

--------------------------------
End of [removed] Digest V2003 Issue #373
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