Subject: [removed] Digest V2003 #176
From: "OldRadio Mailing Lists" <[removed]@[removed];
Date: 4/24/2003 11:47 AM
To: <[removed]@[removed];

------------------------------


                            The Old-Time Radio Digest!
                              Volume 2003 : Issue 176
                         A Part of the [removed]!
                                 ISSN: 1533-9289


                                 Today's Topics:

  COPYRIGHT                             [ "Ian Grieve" <austotr@[removed]. ]
  Re: Dennis's Dilemma                  [ hal stone <dualxtwo@[removed]; ]
  Today in radio history                [ Joe Mackey <joemackey108@[removed] ]
  snapshot 10: John Eisenhower, Betty   [ Howard Blue <khovard@[removed]; ]
  Great Gildersleeve tapes?             [ Bob Andelman <bob@[removed]; ]
  Bob Hope's Pepsodent Show             [ Kenneth Clarke <kclarke5@[removed]; ]
  Bing Crosby's 100th birthday celebra  [ "Phil Watson" <philwats@[removed] ]
  Cincy Pics                            [ "Jeff Quick" <jeffquick@[removed] ]
  FST do Lum & Abner                    [ "Ivan G. Shreve, Jr." <iscreve@comc ]
  Bing had to have been the greatest--  [ Jer51473@[removed] ]
  Brace Beemer                          [ Rick Keating <pkeating89@[removed]; ]
  WXYZ                                  [ "randy story" <ctr18700@centurytel. ]
  Life of CDs                           [ "A. Joseph Ross" <lawyer@attorneyro ]
  Mea Culpa                             [ "Don Frey" <alanladdsr@[removed] ]
  Watkins Wins!                         [ "Don Frey" <alanladdsr@[removed] ]
  Re: A [removed]                   [ GEORGE WAGNER <gwagneroldtimeradio@ ]
  Gunsmoke Question                     [ GEORGE WAGNER <gwagneroldtimeradio@ ]
  electric organs                       [ "[removed]" <ddunfee@[removed]; ]

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 13:30:55 -0400
From: "Ian Grieve" <austotr@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  COPYRIGHT

What a week, 2 old chestnuts in the same week, mp3 vs cassettes and now
copyright.

I thought I would stay out of the mp3 vs cassettes as I have said my piece
before on the subject and copyright is a more interesting subject.

Not sure about the [removed], but Australia works on the 50 year rule as well,
however, music such as the themes, soundtrack etc is something like 99 years
(or maybe 50 years) after the death of the Composer, which sort of puts a
dampener on the idea of Aussie OTR being out of copyright after 50 years.  I
for one have no interest in seperating theme and soundtrack from the shows,
so what is the answer?

Harry and Hal, I collect the OTR from your country on mp3, I collect the OTR
from Australia on transcriptions, audio, mp3 etc.

I buy, trade, beg and borrow.  I support our archives, I buy books,
documents, badges.  I buy all the official releases from the Archives.  I
make copies of what I get for the archives and I direct people to them to
make purchases.

I do regular radio spots on our National Radio as well as commercial
stations on the preservation of Australian OTR and work with other
Australian collectors to document our radio series/serials etc.  Our work to
date has documented over 2,400 Australian series and plenty more to go.  The
Australian Archives in several decades have only documented 700 series and
announced that they believed there were probably 1500 series all told.  The
Archives are now interested in the database we have created and we will no
doubt work together in the future.

None of this would have happened if I and Moris (our Chief Researcher and
database designer) had not discovered mp3 otr and got interested.  It
wouldn't have happened if Collectors like Jamie, Craig and Dave had not been
patient with us and embraced the preservation issues with us.  These guys
had been collecting OTR for decades, but didn't feel that the newcomers were
not worth talking to because they collected mp3's.  They were responsible
for showing us there was more to the hobby than mp3.

But who are the Pirates?

The dealers who sell shows they do not have rights to?  But they are often
the same people responsible for the continued existence of those shows.

The collectors who buy, trade, copy transcriptions that legally they
shouldn't have?  But they are the ones who are preserving the shows and
keeping the whole idea of OTR alive.  They often have originals that the
copyright owners don't have due to previous lack of interest.

Or are the mp3ers now being blamed for being Pirates because they are doing
similar things but in a digital format?

Nothing is clear cut, no one part of the hobby can be a Pirate without all
the other parts being Pirates as well.  But what is the answer?  I don't
know the answer, I don't like to be classed as a Pirate, I take what I am
doing seriously and I know hundreds of others who feel the same.  What
should we do, abandon the hobby and take up growing roses?

I wish there was a way to have residuals flow to the people responsible for
creating what we enjoy, I support such an idea, but is it workable?  All we
can do I suspect, is show respect for people like Harry and Hal who continue
to educate us and put up with our questions.

This is an amazing hobby full of amazing people and I have no interest in
roses.  But I respect Harry and Hal and wouldn't like to think that they
resent the collecting of OTR.  So what is the answer?  All wear patches?

Ok, thinking about it, I will throw in a bit about the mp3 discussion that
was taking place.

Hoarders are not people who are honouring a request made by someone who gave
or traded some shows.  Hoarders are the collectors who die and have their
collections buried with them in order to keep them away from other
collectors.  Hoarders are those who like to remind people that they have
such and such a show but make sure no one else ever gets to hear it.  They
are the people I don't understand.

Collectors who outlay money to make special purchases and then hold back
releases until they recoup their costs should be encouraged and supported,
we all know the money they get will go towards the next purchase which will
again be to everyone's benefit, that sort of obsession I understand.  The
thing is that all parts of the hobby can work together and agreements can be
made and kept without it being a P**sing competition or my format is better
than yours arguement.

I am surprised however that when I mentioned here about the early [removed]
Childrens Christmas series recently uncovered in Australia.  From research
and discussion it appears to be the only complete copy surviving.  I
mentioned that the finder wanted to trade it for Australian transcriptions
but not one [removed] Dealer/Collector enquired.  Mp3 requests were made but the
find was ignored by the section of the hobby that I thought would most
benefit from a new find.  Looks like they will be staying in Australia and I
find that rather sad.  Looks like a good mp3 release for next Christmas.

Ian Grieve

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 13:32:31 -0400
From: hal stone <dualxtwo@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  Re: Dennis's Dilemma

In Dennis's recent posting wherein he reviewed my book with some very kind
words, he opined;

Alas,  there is no mention of Shelley Winters, unless I missed it, and Hal
did allude to her once in the Digest.  I don't recall how he put it, but he
left the impression that she was not his favorite person to work with.

That's putting in mildly.

Hal, unless you are going to save this anecdote for yet another book, could
you be more specific about your dealings with her?

"Yes" to the first part of your question, and "sorry, no" to the second
part.

I haven't quite decided on the chapter heading for the part of the new book
that will include my encounter with Ms. Winters, but it will be a doozy. :)

My first literary effort about my earlier OTR career was written with a
great deal of heartfelt warmth and reverence. I think it's only fair to warn
folks that in the next one, I take a totally different approach. That's due
in part to the unpleasant people I encountered in TV  (and specifically, the
Advertising Agency world), and never the twain shall meet.

It is a fair guess that she doesn't read the OTR Digest so you can give us
the
inside scoop.

I think she only reads positive articles about herself, and I doubt she has
much of those. Don't get me wrong. She has done some nice work in films. But
often, the process was quite painful to those around her. I just don't have
too much respect for performers who justifiably earn the reputation as being
"difficult" and "Self absorbed".

Thank you, sir, in advance.

Don't make me feel guilty. :)

Regards

Hal(Harlan)Stone

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 13:32:37 -0400
From: Joe Mackey <joemackey108@[removed];
To: otr-net <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  Today in radio history

   From Those Were The Days --

   4/24

1949 - Dick Powell starred in Richard Diamond, Private Detective on NBC.
The show stayed on the air for four years.

1955 - X-Minus One, a show for science fiction fans, was first heard on
NBC.

  4/25

1938 - Your Family and Mine, a radio serial, was first broadcast.

   Joe

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 13:32:43 -0400
From: Howard Blue <khovard@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  snapshot 10:  John Eisenhower, Betty Comden
 & Adolph Green

snapshot 10: --of an eight-year long book research project-- John
Eisenhower, Betty Comden & Adolph Green

	I am in New York City's Lincoln Center Library for the Performing Arts.
It is the late spring of 1998. I walk out of the special collection's
room and spot a librarian sitting and giving special attention to a very
well-dressed elderly couple. The man is wearing an expensive sport jacket
and a blue ascot. All the signs are that they are two superb examples of
that human sub-species known as "VIP's." "Who are they?"  I ask. "Betty
Comden and Adolph Green," another librarian whispers to me, although we
are too far away to be heard by the famed couple.

	Two years later I encounter a similar scene in the National Archives.
This time, it will be Mr. and Mrs. John Eisenhower. John Eisenhower is
the son of the former president and general.  and In an earlier posting
about this second scene, I mentioned that later that day I found myself
in an elevator with the Eisenhower's, during which I got a story from him
which I used in WORDS AT WAR. I have to confess that I did not "find"
myself in the elevator. I made sure that I got on when they did.
There--I'm not a Catholic--so I don't go to confession. But I feel better
having gotten that off  my chest.

	Coming soon: snapshot 11: an OTR treasure trove

		Howard Blue
		"Snapshots" is brought to you by  WORDS AT WAR.
		For more information, see [removed] (which includes
ordering
information)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 13:33:00 -0400
From: Bob Andelman <bob@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  Great Gildersleeve tapes?

A few years ago, my wife and I attended an FOTR convention in NJ. We
purchased a bunch of Gildersleeve and Fibber McGee & Molly cassettes for $2
to $3 each. Does anyone know a source of more at such a price?  Our
6-year-old daughter discovered the tapes and for the last year has gone to
bed almost every night listening to them; I'd like to acquire more. Can you
point me in the right direction? (CDs would be okay, too.)

Bob Andelman
[removed]

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 13:33:10 -0400
From: Kenneth Clarke <kclarke5@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Bob Hope's Pepsodent Show

          I saw the salute to Bob Hope a few night's ago and
was very impressed.  It covered almost every aspect of his
career, including his days in vaudeville, on Broadway, radio,
TV, movies, hosting the Oscars and his renowned specials
for our troops.  It was a great way to celebrate his 100th
birthday!  (Which btw, is on May 29, 2003)

          If anyone knows where I can get some cassettes of his
radio show sponsored by Pepsodent, please e-mail me off list
with the information.  I'm not particular regarding specific dates.

          Thanks ahead of time!

Kenneth Clarke

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 13:33:17 -0400
From: "Phil Watson" <philwats@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  Bing Crosby's 100th birthday celebration

The BBC are celebrating this event by airing 3 x 1 hour shows on Tuesday
nights in a series called "Bing - The Greatest Of Them All" narrated by Pat
Boone.

The first was this past Tuesday, I'm sorry to say I missed it but at least
the others can be heard at [removed] - [removed] pm UK time online at
[removed] but unfortunately this show is not featured in the
BBC's "listen again" facility.

Apologies for not finding out about the series until it was too late to
catch Part 1.

That was a great post from John Jensen, but Bing I don't think he made more
studio recordings than any other singer in history - according to the
Guinness Book Of World Records this was held by someone else - don't ask me
who, I think the total was something like 10,000 [removed] think it was a
singer from India.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 13:33:48 -0400
From: "Jeff Quick" <jeffquick@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  Cincy Pics

To the gentleman who owns the Web site
[removed]  Thanks for posting those picture
from the convention.  There were only a few but
for those of us who couldn't make the convention
they were great to see!!  Besides I finally got to
see what Hal Stone looks like!!

Thanks!!!   Lynn Wagar"

Lynn,

That would be me. I'm glad you enjoyed them.  The direct link to the pics
is:

[removed]

My apologies for the quality of some of the pics.  I just replaced my
digital camera with a new one & am still learning the settings.  I **think**
I was using the digital zoom instead of the optical one.  This resulted in
the low quality of the stage shots.  Note to self:  Don't ever try to learn
the use of a new camera at an important event.

Snip---"Besides I finally got to see what Hal Stone looks like!!"

Hal is much prettier in person:)

I know there were a lot of pics taken at the show.  Does anyone else have
any posted up to the web yet?

Jeff

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 13:34:10 -0400
From: "Ivan G. Shreve, Jr." <iscreve@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  FST do Lum & Abner

John Mayer queried:

I wonder how many heard the last nationally popular audio comedy skit
ensemble, Firesign Theater, do its unacknowledged tribute to Lum and
Abner yesterday on All Things Considered.

I didn't get a chance to hear yesterday's ATC, but I have heard the 4 or 5
Crazee Guys (aka The Firesign Theatre) do these skits before.  The
characters are called Mutt and Smutt, and the first thought that came to
mind when I heard these characters was wondering "what's going on down in
Pine Ridge."

Artemis Records released a CD in March entitled ALL THINGS FIRESIGN, a
collection of Firesign Theatre skits broadcast in 2002 on "All Things
Considered," and there are a couple of "Mutt 'n Smutt" skits on that CD.
Much of the Firesign Theatre's work was influenced heavily by old-time
radio; their famous detective character, Nick Danger, purportedly was a
spoof of "Yours Truly, Johnny Dollar."

Ivan

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 13:34:18 -0400
From: Jer51473@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Bing had to have been the greatest---
X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative
X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain

 entertainer of all time. I know its been debated many times on the digest
and can surely be argued with merit for many other entertainers, but John
Jensens summation of bings achievements and media domination for so long a
time cannot be truely rivaled, in my opinion. So looking at it objectively,
HAIL TO BING, the king of all time entertainers.

  *** This message was altered by the server, and may not appear ***
  ***                  as the sender intended.                   ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 13:34:27 -0400
From: Rick Keating <pkeating89@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Brace Beemer

It's nice to see that Brace Beemer's hometown is doing
something to commemorate him. Here in the Detroit
area, where "the Lone Ranger" first aired, the town of
Oxford, where Brace Beemer lived, used to have wooden
signs at the town limits reading "Welcome to Oxford,
home of Brace Beemer, the Lone Ranger." I saw them
myself back in 1989, but I don't think they're around
any more.

That's too bad. While the reason for their absence
could very well be that the signs became old and worn
over the years, I have a feeling that our society's
increasing belief that the past doesn't matter could
have something to do with it as well.

Yes, many people in Oxford may still remember Brace
Beemer, but it's too bad that somebody apparently
doesn't think the signs promoting him as one of the
town's famous residents are relevant any more.

At least its still relevant somewhere.

Rick

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 13:35:07 -0400
From: "randy story" <ctr18700@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  WXYZ

Hi-ho everybody!
    I am currently devouring Hal's wonderful book(which I bought at the
Cincy Con), as well as Martin's latest. I get into periods of time when I
read everything I can get my hands on, and, with my summer break imminent, I
was hoping to finally get a copy of WXYZ IN WONDERLAND(correct title?). Does
anyone on the list have a copy they might be willing to part with for a
school teacher on a VERY fixed income? Let me know offlist, please.
    Concerning the Cincy Con, I would like to point out how wonderful it was
to see everyone again. I always enjoy myself and bring back both fond
memories and good ideas for my classroom. It is also an absolute joy to
share space with Hal Stone, Martin Grams(I am SO jealous of that guy!), and
Bob Hastings. Robert Newman and Bob Burchett are dear souls and I deeply
appreciate their efforts each year(next year will make my fifth convention
there). It was certainly worth the 9 hour drive. I was sorely disapointed to
have had to return home unexpectedly for what turned out to be almost
nothing of a problem. I missed being in one of the recreations:(
    In any event, I am wanting to continue to build my OTR book shelf
collection. If anyone has a list of suggestions in this regard, please
inform me via the list or through my email.
    In the meantime, God Bless.
    Randy Story
    [removed]
    Concerning the MP3 matter. I am for anything that will build my
collection of shows quickly, efficiently, and relatively inexpensively.
    [removed]
    Karen [removed] IS MY SENIOR PHOTO OF YOU?????!!!!!:)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 13:35:20 -0400
From: "A. Joseph Ross" <lawyer@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Life of CDs

Thanks to everyone who answered my question about the life-expectancy of
recordable CDs.
 I guess that means you can't always believe what you hear on the radio.

--
A. Joseph Ross, [removed]                           [removed]
 15 Court Square, Suite 210                 lawyer@[removed]
Boston, MA 02108-2503           	         [removed]

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 13:35:41 -0400
From: "Don  Frey" <alanladdsr@[removed];
To: "otr message" <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  Mea Culpa

I have received more than a dozen emails from members criticizing my posting
the
remarks made by Milton and Barbara Merlin re the Amos and Andy creators.
I beg your forgiveness! I am sure those two men were loyal americans, always
jolly and
never engaged in anything untoward. I am glad I didn't share the rest of the
interview
in which Milton Merlin boldly states that Gosden was "a little person,
barely 4' 3" tall"
and that "Charlie once called Bill Hay 'fatty.'"

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 13:35:48 -0400
From: "Don  Frey" <alanladdsr@[removed];
To: "otr message" <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  Watkins Wins!

Barbara Watkins, of SPERDVAC fame, correctly named the show John Dunning
described as "totally forgettable" and "undistinguished." Starr of Space.
Other guesses:
[removed] (one of my favorites actually, wish there were more around)
Danger
Dr. Danfield, Secret Missions (The Edward Arnold one) and "anything with
Joan
Davis."

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 13:36:21 -0400
From: GEORGE WAGNER <gwagneroldtimeradio@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Re: A [removed]

     Let's assume, just for the sake of
discussion, that there is some truth to this
story.

     If so, I suspect that Gosden used the word
"boy" in a perfectly-acceptable, non-perjorative
and non-racist "boys in the band"-type context.

     "Let's have you and the other boys in the
[removed]"

     But if that's indeed the case, somebody must
have tried really HARD to pervert this into a
racist statement, apparently with full
understanding of the falsity of what they were
doing.

     I can't help but be reminded of the ugly
story from jazz history which I grew up with -
that the great blues singer Bessie Smith, injured
in a "minor" traffic accident, died from blood
loss only because she was turned away from a
lily-white hospital emergency room in
Mississippi.

     But the actual reason she was "refused"
medical treatment is that her blood loss in that
major automobile-vs-truck accident had been so
very severe that by the time she reached the
hospital she was DEAD.

     Sincerely,

     George Wagner
     GWAGNEROLDTIMERADIO@[removed]

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 13:36:33 -0400
From: GEORGE WAGNER <gwagneroldtimeradio@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Gunsmoke Question

     One of the more interesting characters of
the Old West was a gunfighter and occasional
sheriff by the handle of Mysterious Dave Mather.
Mather claimed to be a descendant of the Rev.
Cotton Mather of Salem witch trials days. He was
fairly well-known in Dodge City during the
Marshall Matt Dillon period and a habitue of the
(real) Longbranch.

     So does Mysterious Dave turn up in any
GUNSMOKE episodes?

     He's not appeared, or even been mentioned,
in any GUNSMOKES that I've heard - but not being
a Western specialist I have only around half the
run.

     Thanks!

     George Wagner
     GWAGNEROLDTIMERADIO@[removed]

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 13:36:57 -0400
From: "[removed]" <ddunfee@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  electric organs

It occured to me recently of how many otr shows used the organ.  A few
questions occur.  When did it come into general use? What sound sources
served the same purposes before it was available? I assume it was used in
part as a cost measure for production reasons?  Were the parts being played
scored or were they semi-spontainious, perhaps taken from a "tool chest" of
sounds, as the script might seem to require?  Was the output taken from a
mic or was it put directly into the sound mixing board?

--------------------------------
End of [removed] Digest V2003 Issue #176
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