Subject: [removed] Digest V2002 #203
From: "OldRadio Mailing Lists" <[removed]@[removed];
Date: 6/4/2002 4:07 PM

To: <[removed]@[removed];

    ------------------------------

                                The Old-Time Radio Digest!
                                  Volume 2002 : Issue 203
                             A Part of the [removed]!
                                     ISSN: 1533-9289

                                     Today's Topics:

      MP3 Debate - my humble comments       [ John <glowingdial1@[removed]; ]
      The Aldrich Family Log                [ Jerry Bechtel <[removed]@[removed] ]
      Attn: Herb Harrison re:Gale Gordon    [ Eric J Cooper <ejcooper2002@[removed] ]
      Yeeesssss?!                           [ Mike Sheets <msheets@texarkanacolle ]
      WBAI / Golden Age of Radio            [ Kubelski@[removed] ]
      "Voicetracking"                       [ leemunsick@[removed] ]
      A legal question                      [ "Andrew Emmerson" <midshires@[removed] ]
      Re: Gale Gordon                       [ "Michael Hayde" <mmeajv@[removed]; ]
      re: mp3 - free for all etc            [ "Jackie" <jaxntom@[removed]; ]
      Gale Gordon/Frank Nelson              [ Ron Sayles <bogusotr@[removed]; ]
      John Mayer's article                  [ "B. J. Watkins" <kinseyfan@hotmail. ]
      Ghost Corps questions                 [ Kelli Stanley <ks4color@[removed] ]
      Re: distinctive voices                [ "Dave Walter" <fredallenfan@hotmail ]
      MP3 player and "searching"            [ bruceglazer@[removed] ]
      Look at all these radio people!       [ leemunsick@[removed] ]
      favorite voices                       [ John Francis MacEachern <johnfmac@a ]

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 11:14:10 -0400
    From: John <glowingdial1@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  MP3 Debate - my humble comments

        Hello folks, I read this digest far more often than I post but I just
    thought I'd add my two cents worth to the current MP3 thread.  I have been
    collecting OTR for 25 years now, started when I was 15 (you do the math)
    with a shoebox of cassette tapes, most dubbed from the local library.  Over
    the years my collection grew.  After I got involved with Yesterday USA and
    started doing my show, The Glowing Dial for them, my collection grew by
    leaps and bounds and now has taken over my small home office where I sit
    typing this letter.  In the past couple of years, I have started to pay more
    attention to the sound quality and completeness of the shows in my archives.
    I have been working hard to purge the bad sounding stuff and weed out
    duplicates.  A huge task that will take me some time to complete.

        Anyway, to the topic of my subject [removed]  Yes I do have some shows
    on MP3 in my collection, but that is not my preferred way of archiving a
    show.  Yes, I have, like others, been a downloading demon when it comes to
    the [removed] newsgroups.  I like that they sometimes post complete or
    almost-complete runs of shows.  Sometimes the quality is good and pretty
    acceptable.  But it is a crap shoot.  More often than not, the downloaded
    files have many problems such as low audio, digital encoding artifacts, you
    know, those digital belches and burps, most annoying.  Other problems
    include files cutting off before the show is over, annoying clipping sounds
    throughout, 10 to 15 seconds or more at the beginning of a file of dead air.
    I had one file with 15 minutes or more of dead air at the end of the file!
    Some shows are so muffled that they are practically unlistenable.  Some
    folks don't even check the files they are uploading.  I had a few that had
    the same section of the program 2 or 3 times in a row and then the file just
    cut off.  I also wish that they could label their files better.  If you are
    downloading several different shows, it is time consuming to try to sort
    them all out because the filenames given are so short and uninformative.  It
    would be nice that if MP3 encoding and posting is to continue, and I'm sure
    it will for some time to come, that some sort of basic rules of thumb could
    be adopted as to naming of files, encoding rates and so forth.  Or am I just
    dreaming there?

        A few notes as to completeness of shows now.  I have been working of
    transferring my cassette tapes to cd and started with tapes I have bought
    commercially.  I have a few caveats (sp?) for you on certain labels to stay
    away from.  These are usually found in department stores and the like.  I
    have had some bad experiences with some of these such as Great American
    Audio.  I have a Jack Benny tape from them and they butchered the show!
    They actually edited in a break (musical cue) where there shouldn't have
    been one, where there wasn't one in the original show!  Why!?  Other labels
    like Metacom have done their share of dumb things too.  Their treatment of
    Lights Out shows is one example.  They have replaced old original openings
    with new ones, some shows are missing the end titles totally, and they even
    tacked on Lights Out openings to episodes that were actually Arch Oboler's
    Plays!  How's that for trying to confuse collectors!?  Other labels like to
    edit the shows, cutting out musical numbers, commercials and more.  Again,
    why!?  I understand some versions may be AFRS recordings and I realize that
    AFRS cut out all commercial references, but most of the ones I speak of are
    not AFRS.  These companies are just interested in making money and think the
    average Joe Blow out there (apologies to anyone with that given name) won't
    notice or care about the incompleteness of the shows.  But we, the
    collectors do!  Labels like Radiola did a better job of things usually
    presenting shows complete and with all original commercials.  Radio Spirits,
    despite all the flaming they have received, still is a great place to get
    decent sounding, complete shows.  And there are other dealers that you see
    at the conventions such as our own Ted Davenport that are doing a great
    service to collectors by presenting good quality shows.  Thanks, Ted!

        Back to the MP3 thing, I think what it comes down to is that a lot of
    posters just don't care about the quality, it's the quantity they like.  I
    feel that quality should be first on that list.  If it's worth doing, it's
    worth doing properly.  On the other hand, I have been extremely satisfied
    with some MP3's I have gotten from the newsgroups.  A lot of stuff from the
    BBC is in fine quality and I have spun audio cd's from them, but I have also
    kept the original source MP3 as a backup.  I intend my MP3's to be a
    temporary thing.  I would love to have all those shows on audio cd,
    uncompressed, and maybe someday I will, hopefully.

        The E-Bay sellers, most of them anyway are just there to make money too.
    I have gotten a few collections from there and have not been overly
    impressed.  The Fibber and Suspense sets I got were far from perfect.  The
    shows had digital belches and clipping sounds (problems mentioned above) and
    the filenames were not uniform at all.  These folks obviously just grabbed
    them off the newsgroups and simply threw them on cd's.  They could have at
    least cleaned up the filenames.  Then there was a Sherlock Holmes set.  This
    one was a real winner ... NOT!  The filenames were all over the place and
    there were dups, sometimes 3 or 4 files of the same show!  It will take some
    time to sort all that out.  Another money grubber there, I'm afraid.  I'll
    give him a little credit, the labels were nice though.

        I also use MiniDisc for archiving some of my OTR.  I use the mono mode
    and can get 160 minutes per disc using the new 80 minute discs.  The
    compression is not too bad and I do not notice much degradation of the sound
    at all.  MD is, I believe, much less compressed than the usual lot of MP3's
    floating around out there.  Somebody out there recently mentioned that he
    uses MD and gets 5 hours per disc?  Could this fellow contact me off list
    and tell me more about this?  I thought 160 minutes was the limit.

        I would also like to publicly say what a great job the First Generation
    Radio Archives is doing.  This is really what preservation and the hobby of
    OTR is all about.  My membership has lapsed due to my unemployment but as
    soon as I can, I will be renewing and starting up my cd round robins with
    them.  No this is not an ad, I am just a satisfied member.  Cheers guys and
    gals at First Gen.!

        Well, that's about it.  For any of you who have read this whole, hastily
    cobbled-together letter, my congratulations.  See you all on the radio.

            Sincerely, John Matthews

    Visit the Glowing Dial Page at:
    [removed]
    glowingdial@[removed]

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 11:48:10 -0400
    From: Jerry Bechtel <[removed]@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  The Aldrich Family Log

    Does anyone know where I could find a complete log of THE ALDRICH
    FAMILY? I've looked at several sites but no luck so far. I'm trying to
    collect the entire set of shows but without the log it's pretty
    difficult. Thanks for any help you can [removed]

    Jerry B

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 11:48:24 -0400
    From: Eric J Cooper <ejcooper2002@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Attn: Herb Harrison re:Gale Gordon

    Hi Herb,
    You are  confusing two famous (but similar sounding) OTR voices. It was
    Frank Nelson who did the "yeeessss???" routine with Jack Benny. Gale
    Gordon was more associated with Fibber McGee and Lucy as well as others,
    but not Jack Benny.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 12:09:51 -0400
    From: Mike Sheets <msheets@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Yeeesssss?!

    Friends,

>     Does anybody else remember Mr. Gorton's "YYEEESSS!!!???" line when dealing
>     with Jack Benny

    When  Hear "YYEEESSS!!!???" I think of Frank Nelson instead of Gale
    Gordon.  In fact,
    Jack once paid Frank's entire appearance fee just to end a skit with
    that one word.  It was worth every cent.

    Mike

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 12:31:59 -0400
    From: Kubelski@[removed]
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  WBAI / Golden Age of Radio

    Since Max Schmid doesn't seem to be interested in posting on this subject
    himself, let me introduce the fact announced on his program this past Sunday
    that The Golden Age of Radio is moving to 9:00 [removed] on Sunday nights and will
    be extended to a full two hours from the current 90 minutes.

    If I heard Max correctly, the change goes into effect this Sunday.

    This is great news for metro NYC-area OTR fans (and those who trade with us).

    Sean Dougherty
    Kubelski@[removed]

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 12:31:38 -0400
    From: leemunsick@[removed]
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  "Voicetracking"
    X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative
    X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain

    This is from "PirateJim's Radio Site".  Can anyone tell me what this is all
    about?
    What is "Voicetracking"?

    5/13/02: AFTRA members at three Clear Channel/New York stations have
    petitioned the company to drop voicetracking there.
    WKTU, AC WLTW "Lite FM", and new Urban WWPR "Power 105", New York all have
    expired AFTRA contracts and the union is negotiating new deals.
    The union claims voicetracking is a "disservice" to listeners.

    Many thanks!      Lee Munsick     That Godfrey Guy

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    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 12:47:46 -0400
    From: "Andrew Emmerson" <midshires@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  A legal question

>     Is it legally possible to take something that does not seem to be within
>     copyright and then under the guise of having spent money on the "product"
>     then try to establish some legal claim and rights?

    Undoubtedly, if you 'add value', even by the slightest degree. You can make
    a new arrangement of a piece of traditional music or produce a new edition
    of a book, play or song that's in the public domain.

    The added value may be purely in the presentation (for instance the
    typography) but by expending time and effort on this, you can be said to
    have exercised some creative effort. As such you then establish fresh
    copyright in the 'new' work.

    Of course, this does not detract from the out-of-copyright situation of the
    source [removed] it does mean that anyone else wishing to make a re-issue
    must start from the original source material. They cannot copy your new
    treatment.

    Let's take a practical example. I discover that the pre-war broadcast 'War
    Of The Worlds' is out of copyright and decide to re-issue it on CD. I get a
    rough old tape from somewhere, clean it up a bit and press the CD.

    Now if you want to re-issue it as well, you can do, because it's out of
    copyright. But you cannot dupe my CD version because I have 'added value'
    and created a new copyright by cleaning up the sound. You'll have to go back
    to an original recording. I may very well put in intentional minor pops or
    clicks after 23 and 37 minutes that were not in the original recording,
    purely to identify people ripping off my version. You would never notice
    these artefacts!

    That's how I interpret the situation under British copyright law. This may
    vary in other countries.

    Bear in mind, as a separate issue, that a vendor can legally impose
    conditions over a purchaser's actions; buying the product may legally bind
    you to a contract that you acknowledge those conditions. Buying a CD gives
    you only limited rights; it does not entitle you to play the music to an
    audience outside your family. Many magazines state (or used to state) they c
    ould not be resold in an incomplete form; in other words, you were not
    allowed to take off the cover and sell or hire it in a different cover of
    your own design. But this is in danger of going off-topic!

    Andy Emmerson.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 13:39:11 -0400
    From: "Michael Hayde" <mmeajv@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Re: Gale Gordon

    Herb Harrison asked:

>     Does anybody else remember Mr. Gordon's "YYEEESSS!!!???" line when dealing
>     with Jack Benny on radio and Lucy on TV?

    I was under the impression that it was Frank Nelson who "owned" that line on
    the JBP.  And I suspect the next digest will be bursting at the seams with
    other members making the same observation.  As far as "Lucy" goes, she dealt
    with Nelson from time-to-time on I LOVE LUCY and with Gordon regularly on
    her other starring sitcoms.  I can certainly imagine Gordon's voice wrapping
    itself around that line as hysterically as Nelson's.

    Michael

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 13:56:39 -0400
    From: "Jackie" <jaxntom@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  re: mp3 - free for all etc
    X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative
    X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain

    I read what Doug Leary said in his post of June 3rd about "illegal traders."
    There isn't anything illegal in trading otr. People trade comic books, cars,
    tools, etc. That's no different than trading otr and no one will go to jail
    for trading anything.
    Just my 2 cents [removed]
    Tom

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    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 14:50:41 -0400
    From: Ron Sayles <bogusotr@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Gale Gordon/Frank Nelson

    I suspect that I will not be the first to respond to this, but I believe Herb
    Harrison has his actors mixed up. On the Jack Benny Program it was Frank
    Nelson that said Yeeeeessssssss! not Gale Gordon. I do agree however that
    Frank Nelson and Gale Gordon had distinctive radio voices.
    --
    Ron Sayles

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 14:50:50 -0400
    From: "B. J. Watkins" <kinseyfan@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  John Mayer's article

    I've just read John Mayer's post in Digest #202 on the subject "Mp3's:
    Anti-capitalist Threat or High-compression Menace?".

    Well said!!!  I applaud you!

    Barbara

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 14:51:24 -0400
    From: Kelli Stanley <ks4color@[removed];
    To: OldRadio Mailing Lists <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Ghost Corps questions

    I am hoping someone out there knows something about "The Ghost Corps",
    those "freelance diplomats" of the [removed] just discovered the show,
    and would like to know more about it.  I assume it was syndicated---but
    does anyone know where?  Likewise, it must be from the '30s ( "Italian
    Libya" is mentioned), but if anyone has more specific dates, I'd
    appreciate it. Neither the actors nor announcer/narrator are
    identified.  The show also features a beautiful, haunting piece of
    orchestral music, probably something classical--though my symphonic ear
    is not sophisticated enough to identify something beyond Mozart or
    Vivaldi.
    Anyway, my curiosity has been piqued, and I'd appreciate any and all
    information. It's a very entertaining serial, and I need something to
    fill the "Chandu" gap in my life! ;)
    I've been away from OTR and the list for quite some time, as classes,
    grades and the pursuit of a Master's degree have taken over my life.
    Now that summer has finally arrived, I've been enjoying the list on a
    more regular basis.  Many thanks to all of you who make it such a
    fascinating and relaxing read! :)
    All the best,
    Kelli Stanley

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 15:18:04 -0400
    From: "Dave Walter" <fredallenfan@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Re: distinctive voices

    Perhaps this name was brought up whilst I looked the other direction (won't
    be the first time that happened!), but last night I was listening to some of
    NBC's D-Day coverage and, at the 7:00 [removed] mark an unmistakable voice popped
    up with a report from Chicago: Alex Dreier. Of course, the man was a local
    fixture in Chicago for so long that anyone from these environs during the
    '40s and '50s would recall him instantly.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 15:57:26 -0400
    From: bruceglazer@[removed]
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  MP3 player and "searching"

    Recently I purchased a Philips MP3/CD player.  Nice unit!
    It also does a very nice job of playing OTR shows.

    One problem:  It will fast forward and rewind within a
    show while you are playing it.  It will even remember
    where you left off - but only for a few ninutes.

    If you shut off the player, then turn it on an hour or so
    later, it starts at the BEGINNING of the cut that you
    were last playing.  And the instruction manual explains
    this by explaining that it will remember exactly where a
    CD left off playing, but it will only play an MP3 from
    the beginning of the cut!  Quite frustrating when you
    have to shut off the player in the middle of a CBSRMT.

    Any suggestions, or is this just the way it is (for now)?

    BRUCE

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 17:02:46 -0400
    From: leemunsick@[removed]
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Look at all these radio people!

    I just learned of something which I think many readers will find
    fascinating.  I have no connection with it, but wanted to pass it
    along.  Settle in for a snug time, reading at your computer.

    In the early 1930s, Ludwig Baumann & Company operated a dozen shops which
    sold furniture, tires, sports equipment, and, yes, even radios!  These
    stores were all over the New York City area: Bronx, Brooklyn, Queens,
    Yonkers, and Newark, with stores scattered all over Manhattan.

    They also sponsored their own local radio program.  As was the wont of the
    era, it was modestly called "The Ludwig Baumann Hour".  Their show featured
    many guest performers and their own regular cast.

    Fans of that era, of popular music of the 20s and 30s, and early radio
    performers, announcers, musicians, and band leaders will appreciate the
    opportunity to peruse a reproduction of the 1932 issue of Baumann's  "Who's
    Who on the Air".  This 24-page book was jammed with photos, period
    newspaper blurbs, and brief biographies.  Indeed, a "Who's Who" of radio
    stars of the time.

    A complete reproduction is available on the Internet by
    visiting:  [removed]

    I don't even know who took the time to make this available, but he or she
    deserves a rousing "huzzah" from us all.

    Following is a list of just a few of the network and New York radio people
    noted in this fascinating little Internet reproduction:

    James Wallington, Kelvin Keech, Milton Cross, George Hicks, Ford Bond,
    Graham McNamee, John Gambling, Weber and Fields, The Goldbergs, Gus Van,
    Kate Smith, Rubinoff, Rudy Vallee, and Jessica Dragonette.

    Grantland Rice, Russ Columbo, Sophie Tucker, Floyd Gibbons, Ford Frick,
    Ruth Etting, Paul Whiteman, Coon-Sanders, Ben Bernie, Jack Denny, Vincent
    Lopez, Will Osborne, and The Lombardo Brothers.

    Nick Lucas, Morton Downey, Harry Herschfield, Bob Ripley, Kate Smith, Lou
    Holz, Gus Van, Tony Wons, Morton Downey, The Jesters, Clara, Lu and Em, The
    Three Bakers, Will Rogers, and Vaughn De Leath.

    Uncle Don, The Children's Hour at WABC, Raising Junior, The Children's Hour
    at WJZ, Arthur Tracy, Ted Weems, George Jessel, Wayne King, Frank Hazzard,
    Singin' Sam, Georgie Price, Bill Robinson, and Nick Lucas.

    As I said, the above lists just a few!  And for your perusing, the price is
    right!  Don't expect to order anything from Ludwig Baumann.  Like just
    about everyone listed above, they're long gone.  But not forgotten, as you
    shall see.

    I trust you will enjoy this charming freebie as much as I did.

    Have fun!     Lee Munsick     That Godfrey Guy

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 17:06:05 -0400
    From: John Francis MacEachern <johnfmac@[removed];
    To: OTR Digest <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  favorite voices

    Hi!

    Radio had many interesting voices that were fun to listen
    to.  Mason Adams from the CBSRMT, who was mentioned earlier,
    was a good choice, I'd like to add his fellow actor Fred
    Gwynne, both are really enjoyable and easily recognizable
    and even with their unusual voices they were never typecast
    in my mind;  whenever I'm listening to them, I never think
    of Smuckers or Herman Munster!

    However, my all time favorite is Orson Welles, I can listen
    to him over and over and never get tired of his voice.  Too
    bad they didn't record audiobooks back then, I would so love
    to hear Welles read my favorite books to me!

    While on the subject of voices, I have long had a pet
    peeve.  I find it very annoying, mostly in dramas, to listen
    to older people, male and female, reading the parts of
    younger ones, especially teenagers.  The only exception I
    can think of would be Marion Jordan's Teenie, somehow I can
    believe that one.  Most annoying is when a middle aged woman
    tries to sound like a teenage boy, as I heard recently on a
    current radio show from Seattle.  In contrast, a relatively
    recent episode of the Cape Cod Radio Mystery Theater feature
    a cast that had a number of boys in it and the actors were
    all age appropriate.  It made the show much more believable.

    So, why not start a concurrent thread, list your favorite
    and least favorite radio voices.

    John Mac

    --------------------------------
    End of [removed] Digest V2002 Issue #203
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