Subject: [removed] Digest V2009 #198
From: [removed]@[removed]
Date: 10/21/2009 7:12 AM
To: [removed]@[removed]
Reply-to:
[removed]@[removed]

------------------------------


                            The Old-Time Radio Digest!
                              Volume 2009 : Issue 198
                         A Part of the [removed]!
                             [removed]
                                 ISSN: 1533-9289


                                 Today's Topics:

  WOTW versions                         [ rand@[removed] ]
  Re: Mercury recordings                [ Anthony Tollin <sanctumotr@earthlin ]
  War of the Worlds                     [ Fred Berney <fsberney@[removed]; ]
  Occam's Razor                         [ Wich2@[removed] ]
  Record of old websites.               [ Rentingnow@[removed] ]
  Record of old websites.               [ Rentingnow@[removed] ]
  Re: Mercury Update                    [ "Glenn P.," <C128User@[removed]; ]
  10-21 births/deaths                   [ Ron Sayles <bogusotr@[removed]; ]
  #OldRadio IRC Chat this Thursday Nig  [ charlie@[removed] ]
  Re: Hindenburg & Fire                 [ Don Shenbarger <donslistmail@sbcglo ]

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 10:55:49 -0400
From: rand@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  WOTW versions

I'd like to hear Mike Biel chime in on this with what he knows about the
various commercial releases of War of the Worlds over the years - I sent
him some info on a release I have, from a Mannhein Fox 2 lp set, a few
months ago.  That particular release sounded a little better than most
I've heard.

I think Orson's speech at the end, as written, could be a little
ambiguous.  His reference to making a shambles of the CBS could have been
intended as a reference to the "fictional" destruction happening in the
story; the bit about the "terrible lesson" could simply refer to the form
that the show took of a "fake" broadcast.

As others have noted, there's contradictory information about whether
Orson and the cast knew that something was up as the show was broadcast.

If there are two versions of WOTW floating around, it could be a broadcast
and rehearsal version.  The memories people have of three versions being
heard could be of the later sponsored series.

I'm doubtful that the Mercury re-staged the show after the fact for CBS,
which someone suggested could be the origin of one of the versions.  If I
were CBS's lawyers, I'd probably be hoping that a recording wasn't made of
the broadcast and that any investigations would just have the script as
evidence.  And, since a recording was made, there was no need to res-tage
it.

If there are two versions of the show, the question would be which one is
the broadcast and which is the rehearsal.  The vocal inflections of the
cast might give a clue as to whether they knew something was up - on the
version I have, Orson's little speech at the end sounds a little nervous.

Remember that there doesn't have to be just one rehearsal recording -
there could have been a couple of rehearsal recordings made.  WOTW is one
of the more complex productions Mercury did because of all the sound
effects, timing and technical stuff they were doing on the broadcast.  The
only other one in the series I've heard that has this much going on with
the technical side is "Dracula".

Randy

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 10:56:39 -0400
From: Anthony Tollin <sanctumotr@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  Re: Mercury recordings

Martin Grams, Jr wrote:

In 1939, one producer was contractually
paying $90 per half-hour show but assuming the network made the discs
themselves, the cost was probably lower than that -- but it still cost money.

I've heard in the past (from Elizabeth McLeod, if I recall correctly) that
CBS had no in-house transcription facilities as late as 1940. Thus, any ETs
would have been made elsewhere via phone line or airchecks. We know that
Orson was having ETs made of the rehearsal directed and cast by Paul Stewart
(including "War of the Worlds"). Bill Herz played Welles' roles in the WOTW
rehearsal, and Orson first heard the rehearsal transcription on Thursday
night if I'm remembering correctly, after MacLeish's "Air Raid" had been
broadcast. Since Welles was having the Stewart-directed rehearsal
transcribed, it's probably a pretty safe bet that he (or his Mercury partner
John Houseman) was responsible for having the actual broadcast transcribed.
Paul Stewart told me that he'd retained the WOTW rehearsal ETs for decades,
and donated to a museum in the 1970s. Somehow they ended up in the
collection of a California book dealer. --Anthony Tollin

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 10:57:33 -0400
From: Fred Berney <fsberney@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  War of the Worlds

In 1957, Studio One did a show called THE NIGHT AMERICA TREMBLED. I
had recorded the audio of this program and for years offered it along
with my copy of War of the Worlds, which I had gotten from a disc
Jockey in Miami, Florida. He owned the Columbia LP and loaned it to
me when I was working at the station.

It took me a while, but last year I was able to obtain a very good
copy of the Studio One show that I now have on DVD. We just screened
it for a science fiction convention in Rockville, Maryland. This was
the first time I had a chance to watch it all the way through. The
quality is excellent. It even contains all the Westinghouse
commercials and the mentions of the programs coming up for the next
two weeks. I'll have a few copies of it with me at FOTR.

If you watch the program you will see a very young James Coburn,
Warren Beatty and Ed Asner.

Another thing about the actual program. Did anybody notice what Orson
Welles said at the end of the broadcast. "We did the best next
thing". I'm sure he meant to say "the next best thing". A slip of the
tongue. In the Studio One production, the person playing Welles says
it as it was probably written. "The next best thing."

That line has bugged me for years, ever since I first heard the
broadcast. If two broadcast exists, do they both contain this same error?

Fred
Check us out for old time radio & TV shows & Movie Serials
[removed]

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 11:29:00 -0400
From: Wich2@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Occam's Razor

 From: "Martin Grams, Jr."  <mmargrajr@[removed];
Subject:  Mercury Update

As for  memories from the cast and crew, I have heard both stories ...
Regardless  of which story is suited by OTR fans

Martin & gang-

For my part, as an amateur historian of sorts, I do my best to avoid "what
suits me." I try - just as with events in my own life - to take all
variant accounts, sift them, and fit them together as logically as  [removed]

again I state that Welles was 100% aware of the panic before the
broadcast was over.

...and I think that can be done here, too.

Orson and company certainly knew during the WOTW broadcast that  something
unique was happening. Odd looks from CBS execs, perhaps notes from  them,
and maybe even that cop in the studio would make that  clear.

But it's not likely that in their small enclosed space, not being  able to
really converse with others while focusing on their performance,  they'd
know to what extent things had gone. And even if they were curious  in that
direction, Herz's remarks ring true: when they left the studio and  found
Times
Square boringly normal, they relaxed a bit.

Until they arrived at their own Mercury Theatre, and found it full of
nattering reporters!

THEN, they knew what they had wrought.

Best,
-Craig W.

[removed] - Thanks, Mike Ogden, for the "Sustaining" reminder; these  things
usually do come down to the $$$ factor. Twas ever  thus.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 14:34:36 -0400
From: Rentingnow@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Record of old websites.

<<GeoCities will shutdown on October  26th. All content will become
unavailable, no copies will be retained by  Yahoo. >>

I had a Network Solutions rep meet with us trying to sell  web optimization
plus making a website for us.  She had on-line copies of  our old home
pages of our business website.  I understand that there has  been some
independent archiving of the web.  Could the OTR have been  archived in such a
fashion and the GeoCities web pages not be lost?

Larry  Moore

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 14:37:44 -0400
From: Rentingnow@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Record of old websites.

GeoCities will shutdown on October  26th. All content will become
unavailable, no copies will be retained by  Yahoo.

I had a Network Solutions rep meet with us trying to sell  web optimization
plus making a website for us.  She had on-line copies of  our old home
pages of our business website.  I understand that there has  been some
independent archiving of the web.  Could the OTR have been  archived in such a
fashion and the GeoCities web pages not be lost?

Larry  Moore

[ADMINISTRIVIA: Um, I think there are other places around the Net to discuss
the demise of GeoCities (and other free-host websites); while it is
tangendentally related to OTR (a tiny percentage of pages contain OTR info),
it's clear we're going to get more into how the Web works than we probably
should. Especially with FOTR this week, let's refocus back to Old-Time Radio.
--cfs3]

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 14:42:34 -0400
From: "Glenn P.," <C128User@[removed];
To: "[The Old-Time Radio Mailing List]" <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  Re: Mercury Update

On Tue., 20-Oct-2009, at 06:35:00am EDT (-0400 GMT),
"Martin Grams, Jr." <MMarGraJr@[removed]; posted
to [The Old-Time Radio Mailing List] under the
subject of "Mercury Update":

 > "...so we did the best next thing: We annihilated the
 > world before your very ears, and utterly destroyed
 > the Columbia Broadcasting System."

And there you have it, folks: proof of the mythical Second Version!

LOL!

Seriously, in the version *I* know -- I can send anyone who wishes
an MP3 snippet of the relevant part -- Orson does NOT use the full
name, but only uses the ABBREVIATION: "...and utterly destroyed
the CBS."

Really, Martin, if you're going to Quote, quote accurately. Unless
I'm NOT being facetious, after all, and you ARE in fact quoting from
a different version (hope, hope!)...?

Speaking [removed] I'm STILL waiting for somebody, somewhere, to
make one of the alternate versions of "War Of The Worlds" -- whether
it was a broadcast or a rehearsal, I don't give a flying d*mn --
available as an MP3 download! Please please please please [removed]!!!

[ADMINISTRIVIA: Ok, folks, let's keep it civil; we're getting dangerously
close to personal attacks, someplace we will _not_ go. Everyone take a deep
breath, hold it for a moment, and release it before typing your post. This
should also go for personal email, frankly. We can disagree with the poster's
comments without dictating to or attacking the poster.  --cfs3]

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 23:00:45 -0400
From: Ron Sayles <bogusotr@[removed];
To: Olde Tyme Radio Digest Digest <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  10-21 births/deaths

October 21st births

10-21-1877 - Floyd Buckley - Chatham, NY - d. 11-14-1956
actor: Popeye: "Popeye the Sailor"
10-21-1892 - Gummo Marx - NYC  - d. 4-21-1977
comedian: (Marx Brothers) "American Review"
10-21-1905 - Carleton Young - NYC - d. 11-7-1994
actor: Dick Grosvenor "Stella Dallas"; Ellery Queen "Advs of Ellery
Queen"
10-21-1907 - Jack Holden - Alba, MI - d. 6-24-1971
announcer: "National Barn Dance"; "Uncle Ezra"
10-21-1908 - Tommy Riggs - Pittsburgh, PA - d. 5-21-1967
comedian: "Fleischmann Hour"; "Quaker Party with Tommy Riggs"; "Tommy
Riggs and Betty Lou"
10-21-1912 - George Solti - Budapest, Hungary - d. 9-5-1997
musical director, conductor: "Chicago Symphony Orchestra"
10-21-1913 - Jack McElroy - Kansas - d. 3-2-1959
announcer, host: "Bride and Groom"; "Breakfast at Sardi"s"
10-21-1915 - Frances Mercer - New Rochelle, NY - d. 11-4-2000
actor: "Nothing Serious"
10-21-1915 - Owen Bradley - Westmoreland, TN - d. 1-7-1998
music director fort WSM Nashville, Tennessee
10-21-1917 - Dizzy Gillespie - Cherow, SC - d. 1-6-1993
musician: "This Is Jazz"
10-21-1920 - Hy Averback - Minneapolis, MN - d. 10-14-1997
announcer, actor: "Sealtest Village Store"; "Bob Hope Show"; "Take It
or Leave It"
10-21-1923 - Jean Gillespie - Boston, MA
actor: Martha Piper "Tales of Willie Piper"; Inza Burrage "Advs. of
Frank Merriwell"
10-21-1924 - Julie Wilson - Omaha, NE
vocalist: "Hollywood Showcase"
10-21-1927 - Ray Brenner - California - d. 6-5-1995
writer: "The Phil Harris/Alice Faye Show"

October 21st deaths

01-03-1918 - Maxene Andrews - Minneapolis, MN - d. 10-21-1995
singer: (Andrews Sisters) "Andrews Sisters Revue"
04-25-1900 - Gloria Ann Simpson - Cleveland, OH - d. 10-21-1956
actor: "The NBC University Theatre"
05-03-1910 - Curt Massey - Midland, TX - d. 10-21-1991
singer: "Show Boat"; "Curt Massey Show"
06-15-1947 - Paul Walters - Wheathampstead., England - d. 10-21-2006
producer: ""Wake Up with Wogan"
07-04-1888 - Henry Armetta - Palermo, Italy - d. 10-21-1945
actor: "Fleischmann's Yeast Hour"
07-06-1923 - Marie McDonald - Westchester, NY - d. 10-21-1965
actor: "Duffy's Tavern"; "Maxwell House Coffee Time"; "Proudly We Hail"
07-07-1887 - Raymond Hatton - Red Oak, IA - d. 10-21-1971
actor: Football Coach "Jack Oakie's College"
08-14-1897 - Lal Chand Mehra - Amritsar, India - d. 10-21-1980
actor: "I Love A Mystery"; "I Love Adventure"
10-22-1893 - Clarence Menser - d. 10-21-1975
director: "Tom Mix"; "Vic and Sade"
11-01-1921 - Harp McGuire - Tennessee - d. 10-21-1966
announcer: "T-Men"
11-04-1911 - Jack Rose - Warsaw, Russian Empire - d. 10-21-1995
writer: "The Bob Hope Show"
11-25-1893 - Jack Frost - Boston, MA - d. 10-21-1959
producer: "The National Barn Dance"
11-30-1907 - Happy Felton - Bellevue, PA - d. 10-21-1964
actor: "Pot 'O Gold"; "Finders Keepers"; "Stop the Music"
12-06-1904 - Elissa Landi - Venice, Italy - d. 10-21-1948
actor: "I'm An American"; "Lux Radio Theatre"

Ron

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 02:12:01 -0400
From: charlie@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  #OldRadio IRC Chat this Thursday Night!

A weekly [removed]

For the best in OTR Chat, join IRC (Internet Relay Chat), StarLink-IRC
Network, the channel name is #OldRadio.  We meet Thursdays at 8 PM Eastern
and go on, and on! The oldest OTR Chat Channel, it has been in existence
over nine years, same time, same channel! Started by Lois Culver, widow
of actor Howard Culver, this is the place to be on Thursday night for
real-time OTR talk!

Our "regulars" include OTR actors, soundmen, collectors, listeners, and
others interested in enjoying OTR from points all over the world. Discussions
range from favorite shows to almost anything else under the sun (sometimes
it's hard for us to stay on-topic)...but even if it isn't always focused,
it's always a good time!

For more info, contact charlie@[removed]. We hope to see you there, this
week and every week!

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 08:56:26 -0400
From: Don Shenbarger <donslistmail@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Re: Hindenburg & Fire

On 10/20/2009 Michael Bielt wrote:

... which Addison Bain noted that the outer cover of the Hindenburg
could have caught fire regardless of the gas [removed]  To just
about every scientist who knows how things burn, it is obvious that
this was not a hydrogen [removed]

Bain's theories are most likely "fatally flawed".

[removed]~dziadeck/[removed]

Don

--------------------------------
End of [removed] Digest V2009 Issue #198
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