Subject: [removed] Digest V01 #173
From: <[removed]@[removed]>
Date: 6/6/2001 1:06 PM

To: <[removed]@[removed];

    ------------------------------

                          The Old-Time Radio Digest!
                             Volume 01 : Issue 173
                       A Part of the [removed]!
                               ISSN: 1533-9289

                               Today's Topics:

     RE: Koch ownership of WOTW           ["Michael Ogden" <michaelo67@hotmail]
     Scarlet Queen on Live365             ["Doug Leary" <dleary@[removed];    ]
     Copywrongs                           ["Andrew Emmerson" <midshires@[removed]]
     re:  On copyrights                   ["David Phaneuf" <dphaneuf@[removed]]
     Re: Public Domain and Scripts        [Elizabeth McLeod <lizmcl@[removed]]
     hate is a strong word                [Magilla445@[removed]                 ]
     Children's Programs                  [dougdouglass@[removed]             ]
     more Elizabeth Kudo's                [hal stone <dualxtwo@[removed];    ]
     Charmed, I'm Sure                    [Bhob Stewart <bhob2@[removed]; ]
     Alright already about Napster vs R/S ["JOSEPH  ANDOLINA, JR." <nostalgic@]
     Snake Song, etc.                     ["jstokes" <jstokes@[removed];    ]
     Re: ID wanted:  Snake dance, Snake C [Graham Newton <gn@audio-restoration]
     I Found the "Snake Song!"            ["jstokes" <jstokes@[removed];    ]

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 08:01:38 -0400
    From: "Michael Ogden" <michaelo67@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  RE: Koch ownership of WOTW

    Chris wrote:

>     How did Howard Koch end up with the rights for War of The Worlds? I am

> >     fully aware that he wrote  the [removed] Koch must have obtained the
> >     rights via  a later purchase or an unusual deal with the network.

    My understanding is that it was part of his original contract with Orson
    Welles and John Houseman when he signed on to become the scriptwriter for
    THE MERCURY THEATRE ON THE AIR. (And, yes, his contract was directly with
    Welles and not with CBS.) Since it was a sustaining program, they couldn't
    offer a whole lot in the way of a weekly salary ($[removed], I believe, was the
    amount). So a clause was put into the contract that stipulated that Koch
    would be the owner of any "original" material that he developed while
    writing for the Mercury. Of course, no one dreamed how significant this
    clause would become, because everything that the Mercury radio show was
    doing at that time was adaptations of already-existing novels and plays. And
    the fact that Koch developed all that "original" material for his adaptation
    of THE WAR OF THE WORLDS grew, ironically, out of Welles' strident
    insistence that Koch re-work the H. G. Wells novel into a news-bulletin
    approach with a [removed] setting. (Koch didn't want to do it, and begged
    Welles--through Houseman--to let him work on something else, but Welles
    ordered him to continue with the WOTW script.)

    Mike Ogden

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 08:01:37 -0400
    From: "Doug Leary" <dleary@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Scarlet Queen on Live365

    All 32 known episodes, 24 hrs a day:

    [removed]

    Doug Leary

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 08:01:35 -0400
    From: "Andrew Emmerson" <midshires@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Copywrongs

>     >From my perspective here in Britain I stand amazed reading the amount of

    discussion on this subject and the frequently exposed misunderstanding of
    copyright law. I'll keep my comment brief and make just one point.

>     I suspect that the ajority of those items listed in his catalog are in

    Public Domain, r/and are not exclusive to RSI ([removed], can _also_ be
    distributed by others through negotiations with the rights owner).

    This is, frankly, irrelevant to the discussion in hand. Under European law,
    and I suspect American law, a new copyright is created when material that
    was previously out of copyright is re-packaged.

    If you're a musicician and write/perform a new arrangement of an 18th work,
    your new version is copyright regardless whether other versions of the tune
    is public domain.

    If you produce a new illustrated book of nursery rhymes, that book is
    copyright, regardless of the fact that every child can already recite those
    rhymes.

    And if someone takes a public domain radio show, designs a new label for it
    and perhaps adds some sleeve notes, however brief or uniformative, a new
    copyright is created for _that particular version or issue_ and anyone who
    then uses this 'pressing' to run off further copies is guilty of copyright
    theft. That's fact and I suspect this is the basis on which certain parties
    are now claiming their products are copyright. It's certainly what I would
    do if I were in that line of business.

    Andrew Emmerson.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 10:58:02 -0400
    From: "David Phaneuf" <dphaneuf@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  re:  On copyrights

    Michael Biel writes:

>     Common-law copyright

    Is that when a copy and a right have lived together for a designated number
    of years and are now considered legally married.  ];-)

    Dave Phaneuf

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 10:58:03 -0400
    From: Elizabeth McLeod <lizmcl@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Re: Public Domain and Scripts

    On 6/6/01 8:03 AM [removed]@[removed] wrote:

>     I can't see how any radio script can qualify.

    Given the issues of both common-law and stautory copyright which apply to
    radio scripts, the only way in which a radio script can be unquestionably
    public domain is for two things to have occured.

    1. The script had to have been registered with the Copyright Office as an
    Unpublished Work at the time of its creation, a step which secured
    protection for 28 years before renewal was required. Given the major
    changes in copyright law which took effect in 1978, this means that, with
    rare exceptions, no script written after December 31, 1949 can be public
    domain.

    2. That original 28-year registration must then have been allowed to
    expire without renewal.

    The case of "Amos 'n' Andy" is the classic example of how this works, and
    has the court rulings to back it up. Beginning in 1928, Correll and
    Gosden submitted their scripts in regular batches to the Copyright Office
    for registration as Unpublished Works, and they continued to do this thru
    the spring of 1948. In the summer of 1948, in a deal worth more than $2
    million, they formed a corporation and sold that corporation and all of
    its assets to CBS, with the specific assets including the "Amos 'n' Andy"
    trademark (registered by them in 1929) and the existing copyrights on all
    4269 of the scripts registered up to the date of the sale.

    Renewal of the copyrights on these scripts then became the responsibility
    of CBS. But when the copyrights began to expire in 1956, CBS failed to
    renew them -- and year by year, the scripts fell into the public domain,
    all the way thru 1976 when the 1948 copyrights expired.

>     >From September 1948 forward, Correll and Gosden themselves no longer had

    any rights whatsoever in connection with the property - they were merely
    paid actors employed by CBS. In that circumstance, they could not renew
    the copyrights themselves, because they no longer owned any legal
    interest in the materials. They belonged to CBS, to do with as they
    wished -- and apparently the network saw no point in going thru the
    paperwork necessary to renew the copyrights on materials which in their
    judgement at the time had no further commercial value. (And I'm quite
    pleased they felt this way, since the public-domain status of these
    scripts has made my own work much [removed]) CBS also lost the A&A
    trademark thru abandonment, after making no use of it in commerce between
    1966 and 1984.

    The post-September 1948 A&A scripts are a different story entirely -- CBS
    retained these materials under common-law copyright, which had no
    expiration. The scripts were eventually submitted for registration in
    1985, and are thus firmly and inarguably under federal copyright
    protection for the full term permitted by law -- whatever that term ends
    up being.

    This situation is not unique to "Amos 'n' Andy." Many, if not most, of
    the scripts for "Fibber McGee and Molly" were registered in the name of
    Don Quinn - until 1949, when NBC purchased all rights to the series from
    Quinn and the Jordans, who had owned the show in a three-way partnership.
    At least some of Quinn's copyrights are known to have expired without
    renewal, although an episode-by-episode search would have to be done at
    the Copyright Office to determine exactly which ones these are. There are
    no doubt many other series which exist under similar legal circumstances.

    Elizabeth

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 10:58:21 -0400
    From: Magilla445@[removed]
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  hate is a strong word

    In a message dated 6/6/01 7:22:00 AM Central Daylight Time,
    [removed]@[removed] writes:

    Paul Urbahns, speaking of the RSI/MediaBay controversy, notes,

>     Let's face it most of us hate Radio Spirits regardless of what they do.

    This sentiment brings to mind a line used on the Phil Harris and Alice Faye
    show.
    Phil and Remley are having a conversation and Phil says that he hates his
    boss, played by Gale Gordon.  Remley then gives Phil a hard time for using
    the word "hate". Remley finally comments that he doesn't hate his [removed]
    just "loathes him a little". Maybe that is a good way to express how many
    feel about Radio Spirits.

    Ron Frantz

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 11:07:53 -0400
    From: dougdouglass@[removed]
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Children's Programs

    "New York Kids" airs on WNYC 820AM (NPR for Metro New York) on Sundays
    from 6:00-8:00PM.

    Billed as "hot radio for cool kids in the Big Apple. It's LIVE radio for
    kids, about kids and more importantly, by kids."  The program has two
    adult hosts and two kid co-hosts who come from "The Class of the Week".
    Each Sunday thousands of kids call in to play games, win prizes and
    share opinions on issues important to kids.

    The program has a site [removed] and is streamed at [removed].

    ----Doug

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 11:27:03 -0400
    From: hal stone <dualxtwo@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  more Elizabeth Kudo's

    Michael Gwynne recently posted the following:

>     Who is this protean whiz, this all-knowing and very entertaining soul who
>     signs her name "Elizabeth"?
>     I have been reading her work for almost a year now, maybe more and she
>     never fails to inform, fill in amazing blanks with delightful insights, and
>     make me smile with her heart!
>     Salute to you my dear.

    <snip>

    Michael, I couldn't agree more with your accolades to Elizabeth. As a matter
    of fact, I recently sent her a personal E-Mail saying something to the same
    effect. I didn't post in on the Digest, because I had some personal issues
    to ask her about. But I see nothing wrong with publicly singing her praises
    and now posting that part of my message that pertains to her incredible
    contributions to this forum.

    " I've been a subscriber to Charlie's OTR digests for about 4 months, and in
     that period, have read your postings with great interest. I am continuously
     amazed at your store of knowledge, and the way you present the information
    on such a wide range of Radio Programming and related materials.
     <snip>
     I honor and respect the contribution that you make towards the preservation
    of Radio's Golden Age, and am now much more appreciative and proud of my
    heritage and those early years in Broadcasting."

    <Michael went on to ask Elizabeth>

>     By the way, can you tell me whatever happened to the only genuinely
>     creepy voice to ever haunt the "Inner Sanctum," Paul McGrath?

    To which she responded with a list of Paul McGrath credits <snip>

>     McGrath died in 1978 at the age of 74. While his Inner Sanctum and
>     soap-opera work may be his best-known accomplishments for OTR fans, his
>     real career was as a journeyman Broadway actor, where he appeared in
>     supporting roles in a wide range of plays during the 1930s and 1940s.

    WoW! Yippee! I just discovered that I can at least live on the same planet
    as Elizabeth. :)

    I can't play in her "Ballpark, much less in the same "League", but I can add
    a "tiny" bit of information that she did not include in her posting about
    Paul. (Forgive me Elizabeth, I have a slight advantage over you in this one
    instance, only because I have first hand knowledge of the subject).

    I had the honor to appear in a hit play with Paul McGrath in the early
    '40's. It was called "Tomorrow the World", and Paul had the "Starring" roll.
    (Maybe the one time he wasn't considered a "supporting actor"). The Play
    opened on Broadway, to rave reviews, with Ralph Bellamy as the male lead.
    The Producers immediately began assembling a touring company, starring Paul,
    with Elissa Landi as co-star. (Elissa was replaced by Edith Atwater many
    many months later). Coincidentally, Paul's lovely wife, Lulu May Hubbard,
    was also in the cast in a supporting role, playing the "Sister" to Paul's
    character.

    We toured the length and breath of this Country for about a year. Long runs
    in the Major cities, and sometimes, even "One Night Stands". Obviously,I got
    to know Mr. McGrath quite well during that period. He was an incredibly nice
    Gentleman, gracious and extremely personable. (As was his wife). Following
    the play, during his extended Radio career, it was always a pleasure meeting
    up with him again whenever our paths crossed in that medium.

    Do I get a "Brownie Point" Elizabeth. :)

    Hal(Harlan)Stone

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 11:27:05 -0400
    From: Bhob Stewart <bhob2@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Charmed, I'm Sure

    Associated with Little Egypt, the hoochy-koochy "Snake Dance" tune was
    popularized at the turn of the century by Sol Bloom (later a [removed]
    Congressman), songwriter James Thornton and his wife, singer Bonnie
    Thornton. Introducing Little Egypt to the press in 1893, Bloom
    improvised the tune at a press conference promoting Little Egypt and the
    Chicago World's Columbian Exposition's "Streets of Cairo" exhibition.
    But he didn't copyright it, so it was used by several music publishers.
    In 1895, Bonnie Thornton made the tune popular by singing lyrics written
    by her husband as "The Streets of Cairo, or the Poor Little Country
    Maid." Other sources trace this back to an Algerian melody titled
    "Kradoutja," popular in France around the beginning of the 17th Century.

    GILDED SERPENT:
    [removed]

    The above links to a webpage totally devoted to this song, including
    Thornton's lyrics and a repro of the Thornton sheet music.

    Bhob @ PRE-FUSE @ [removed]

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 12:15:07 -0400
    From: "JOSEPH  ANDOLINA, JR." <nostalgic@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Alright already about Napster vs R/S

    [removed] please let's move on! If I read another post about this issue of
    copyrights and the battle with you know who, I'll pass out from  exhaustion!
    Isn't there another forum this could go to? Thanks for your time :)

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 12:36:46 -0400
    From: "jstokes" <jstokes@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Snake Song, etc.

    Graham -- I know the title, but I am not sure of how to spell the name of
    the composer.   The song you are referring to is called "Egyptian Dance."
    Try some composer name like Ligourni or Linguini.   And I may be way off on
    the composer, too.   I discovered that piece years ago when I was spinning
    classical music for all the gals and guys.  :)   If  you really want to dig
    for it, I am guessing you should try the Boston Pops conducted by Fiedler on
    this one.  There has to be an archive by now on CD of his recordings.
        While we are on the subject of such songs,  there is another one very
    much like Egyptian Dance they used to drop in for mysterious exotic land
    music in radio shows and in the movies.   It's the "Bacchanale" from Sampson
    and Delilah opera by Saint-Saens.   Better check for the exact spelling.   I
    could say all this stuff tripplingly on my tongue at one time.   But I em
    knot sew sur of deh spelin.'  :)
         Just about every light music record compilation had this one on it.
    But the Egyptian Dance was, ironically, not that often recorded.
        I recall some actor on the radio or in the movies in the old days made
    up words to Egyptian Dance -- like this --

        "Oh the things you did,
          When you used to be a kid!"
    - -------------------------------------------------------
        Yah got me going on this, now, Graham.   Other pieces of classical music
    that wound up as mysterious, exotic cues and bridges include -- (and I
    haven't checked my spellings at all -- just putting this all down "stream of
    consciousness!")

    COMPOSER                   PIECE
    Borodin                           Steppes of Central Asia,
                                            Polyvetsian Dances ("Prince Igor")
                                            Prince Igor Overture
    Trivia on the above.   The Bobby Bensen and the B Bar B Riders radio show
    used music from the Poly Dances as bridge music.   They used that
    constantly.   Must have got a good deal on clearances on the piece.  :)
    - ----------------------------------------------------------
    Further trivia on Borodin's music.   The Broadway show "Kismet" had all of
    it's music taken from Alexander Borodin.   And he was not at all able to sue
    since he was long since dead and had no ASCAP or BMI to boot.  :)
    - --------------------------------------------------------------
    Tchaikovsky                   Arab Dance from "The Nutcraker"

    Cut/Print

    Jim Stokes
    NaturaLite Pictures

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 15:04:49 -0400
    From: Graham Newton <gn@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Re: ID wanted:  Snake dance, Snake Charmer,
     Hoochie Koochie, Hula-Hula   Dance [removed]

    Thanks to all who answered, and particularly Steve Ramm who pointed me to
    this page:-

    It's got everything, well researched and certainly answered all my questions!

    [removed]

    ... Graham Newton

    --
    Audio Restoration by Graham Newton, [removed]
    World class professional services applied to phonograph and tape
    recordings for consumers and re-releases, featuring CEDAR processes.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 15:04:51 -0400
    From: "jstokes" <jstokes@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  I Found the "Snake Song!"

        I did some probbing on the internet, and sure enough, I found the exact
    reference to the "snake dance" music.   So now, here it is, for Graham
    Newton, and all others concerned --
        It's the opening theme of "Ballet Egyptien", opus 12, of Alexandre
    Luigini.   The music survives as a four-movement suite from the complete
    ballet.   The complete ballet runs about 20 minutes.  Dig around for
    recordings of both.
        This sometimes-heard concert piece can't help but be associated with a
    sideshow belly dancer, since it's been used for that routine in vaudeville.
    In Britain, many people still associate its opening theme with the variety
    act of sand dancers Wilson, Keppel, and Betty.
        Like the William Tell Overture, you are a real classical music lover if
    you don't associate the last movement of that Rossini Overture with "The
    Lone Ranger."   Similarly, if you hear the opening to the Egyptian Ballet
    and don't think of hootchie-kootchie dancers, you are a real classical music
    nut as well!
        And furthermore, if you are an opera lover, the piece is sometimes
    played as a ballet sequence in the second act of Verdi's "Aida."   That's
    where you may have heard it, depending on the production.

    Cut/Print

    Jim Stokes, who is an ex-classical music DJ and now --
    writer/producer/director of
    NaturaLite Pictures

    --------------------------------
    End of [removed] Digest V01 Issue #173
    *******************************************

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