Subject: [removed] Digest V2005 #322
From: [removed]@[removed]
Date: 10/20/2005 10:18 AM

To: [removed]@[removed]

    ------------------------------

                                The Old-Time Radio Digest!
                                  Volume 2005 : Issue 322
                             A Part of the [removed]!
                                 [removed]
                                     ISSN: 1533-9289

                                     Today's Topics:

      10-19 births/deaths                   [ Ron Sayles <bogusotr@[removed]; ]
      Chicago Tribune OTR Article           [ seandd@[removed] ]
      Guiding Light Returns to Radio, Sort  [ seandd@[removed] ]
      On the trail of the lonesome Pyne     [ "Derek Tague" <derek@[removed]; ]
      White Feller                          [ "Jim Nixon" <ranger6000@[removed] ]
      SFX Vs. Foley                         [ dougdouglass@[removed] ]
      Personal attacks                      [ George Kelly <gkelly1@[removed]; ]
      INQUIRY: Escaped madmen               [ Steve Lewis <stevelewis62@[removed]; ]
      do any pre-WOR Jean Shepherds exist?  [ Rutledge Mann <cliff_marsland@yahoo ]
      white feller                          [ "joe@[removed]" <sergei01@earthli ]
      Abbott and Costello Meet Murrow and   [ "karl tiedemann" <karltiedemann@hot ]
      Dunning Book ref Gunsmoke             [ "Jed Dolnick" <jdolnick@[removed] ]
      Timing!                               [ <whhsa@[removed]; ]
      Newark Star-Ledger Covers Friends of  [ Sean Dougherty <seandd@[removed] ]

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 09:07:11 -0400
    From: Ron Sayles <bogusotr@[removed];
    To: Olde Tyme Radio List <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  10-19 births/deaths

    October 19th births

    10-19-1889 - Fannie Hurst - Hamilton, OH - d. 2-23-1968
    writer: "United China Relief"; "Fanny Hurst Reviews"; "Big Joe"; "United
    Nations Today"
    10-19-1903 - Robert Hardy Andrews - Effingham, KS - d. 11-11-1976
    writer: "Skippy"; "Jack Armstrong"; "Just Plain Bill"
    10-19-1907 - Roger Wolfe Kahn - Morristown, NJ - d. 7-12-1962
    bandleader: "Roger Wolfe Kahn and His Orchestra"
    10-19-1910 - John C. Mills - Picqua, OH - d. 1-24-1936
    singer: (The Mills Brothers) "Mills Brothers Quartette"; "Bing Crosby Show"
    10-19-1911 - George Cates - New York, NY - d. 5-12-2002
    orchestra leader: "Full Speed Ahead"; "Guest Star"; "Stand By for Music"
    10-19-1918 - Bob Sweeney - San Francisco, CA - d. 6-7-1992
    actor: "Sweeney and March"; "Sara's Private Caper"
    10-19-1920 - Harry Alan Towers - London, England
    producer: "The Black Museum"; "Horatio Hornblower"; "The Scarlet Pimpernel"
    10-19-1921 - George Nader - Pasadena, CA - d. 2-4-2002
    actor: "Family Theatre"
    10-19-1925 - Eddie Layton - d. 12-16-2004
    organist: New York Yankees and many radio programs
    10-19-1930 - Wally Flaherty - The Bronx, NY - d. 9-23-1998
    host: "Open Line"
    10-19-1932 - Robert Reed - Highland Park, IL - d. 5-12-1992
    actor: "Hollywood Radio Theatre"

    October 19th deaths

    01-31-1894 - Isham Jones - Coalton, OH - d. 10-19-1956
    bandleader: "Isham Jones and His Orchestra"
    02-22-1892 - Edna St. Vincent Millay - Rockland, ME - d. 10-19-1950
    author: "Against the Storm"
    04-16-1914 - John Hodiak - Pittsburgh, PA - d. 10-19-1955
    actor: L'il Abner "L'il Abner"; Butch Cavendish "Lone Ranger"
    05-01-1919 - John Meredyth Lucas - d. 10-19-2002
    film director, producer: "Bud's Bandwagon"
    07-13-1902 - Phillips H. Lord - Hartford, CT - d. 10-19-1975
    actor: Seth Parker "Seth Parker"; Mitchell Frazier "Story of Mary Marlin"
    08-27-1916 - Martha Raye - Butte, MT - d. 10-19-1994
    comedienne: "Tuesday Night Party"; "Cavalcade of America"; "Screen Guild
    Theatre"
    11-04-1911 - Josephine Huston - d. 10-19-1967
    vocalist: "Take a Note"
    11-30-1667 - Jonathan Swift - Dublin, Ireland - d. 10-19-1745
    writer: "The Columbia Workshop"
    12-22-1911 - Bob Guilbert - Wisconsin - d. 10-19-1990
    actor: Don Winslow "Don Winslow of the Navy"
    --
    Ron Sayles
    Milwaukee, Wisconsin

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 09:12:12 -0400
    From: seandd@[removed]
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Chicago Tribune OTR Article

    Leslie Levine's Chicago Tribune article on old time radio fandom published in today's issue.  You'll see digester and Those Were the Days Players front man Randy Larson quoted prominently along with Chuck Schaden and others.

    The Friends of Old Time Radio website ([removed]), part of our illustrious moderator's cyber-empire, also gets a plug at the end of the article.

    See everyone in Newark tomorrow!

    Sean Dougherty
    SeanDD@[removed]

    [removed],1,[removed];cset=true

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 09:12:20 -0400
    From: seandd@[removed]
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Guiding Light Returns to Radio, Sort Of

    Via "Podcasting," CBS is making available audio versions of its soap opera
    available through its website for fans who want to listen to the show while
    driving to work.

    There is an article about this in today's Wall Street Journal on page D16
    (only available online to subscribers).  It describes the technical work
    necessary to convert the performance to audio only  and mentions that in the
    last years of the radio version the actors did two performances, one for
    radio and one for TV, until the radio show was ended.

    Currently, they are just adapting the TV performance for audio, and the
    article notes some shortcomings that result.

    This has been a big day for signs that people are still interested in the
    audio drama format.

    Sean Dougherty
    SeanDD@[removed]

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 12:57:44 -0400
    From: "Derek Tague" <derek@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  On the trail of the lonesome Pyne
    X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative
    X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain

    Hi Gang:

    I'd like to thank everybody who weighed in on one-time radio host Joe [removed]
    When Morton Downey Jr. was all the rage in the late 1980s, I had heard that
    Pyne was a similarly slanted confrontational  host. However, my only memory of
    Pyne was a late-night movie on commercial TV [remember them?] called "The
    Love-Ins," in which Richard Todd plays a college professor who goes to
    Haight-Asbury & becomes a Timothy Leary-esque LSD guru. This 1967 low-budget
    exploitation film also features Joe Pyne as himself, aa s well as James
    MacArthur, Susan Oliver, and Mark Goddard (talk about "lost in space.").

    [removed]: MacArthur shoots Todd at the end, inadvertently turning him into a
    "martyr." Book yourself, Dan-O!

    Hope to see everybody at FOTR in Newark tom'w. Those twenty-minute cab rides
    are excrutiating!

    Yours always in the ether!

    Derek Tague

      *** This message was altered by the server, and may not appear ***
      ***                  as the sender intended.                   ***

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 12:59:07 -0400
    From: "Jim Nixon" <ranger6000@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  White Feller

    Dave (Gettum-up Scout) Parker posted a remark about "White Feller", the
    horse that carried Tonto, the Lone Ranger's faithful Indian companion, until
    Scout took over.  There is no better source to explain the change than Dave
    Holland's book, "From Out of the Past".  On page 398, Dave says, "Tonto
    called his new horse White Feller, and White Feller it [removed] the next
    three years.  But in that third year - 1938 - the first Republic serial was
    released and excited audiences could now see their heroes' horses.  But
    wait.  Although the screen Tonto called his horse White Feller, it wasn't
    white, it was a paint!  Hollywood had felt that one white horse up there was
    plenty, thank you, and for once, Detroit decided to correct the discrepancy
    in images."
    In the episode broadcast August 5, 1938 titled, "Three Against the Warpath",
    or sometimes called, "Thundercloud's Camp in the Hills", White Feller goes
    lame and Chief Thundercloud, a recurring character in the radio shows,
    presents Tonto with his own horse, a magnificent paint.  A few shows later,
    on September 2, 1938 ("Sheriff Sanders and the Smugglers"), Tonto bestows
    the name "Scout" on the horse (possible the result of a contest, Dave
    Holland speculates).  From then on, it was Silver and Scout to the rescue.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 12:59:12 -0400
    From: dougdouglass@[removed]
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  SFX Vs. Foley

    Calling SFX guys "Foley Artists" is the same as saying radio spots are
    Voice-Overs.  T'aint so, McGee.

    Doug Douglass

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 13:00:31 -0400
    From: George Kelly <gkelly1@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Personal attacks

    Some recent posting have commented on the attack on an individual by
    a news reporter.  I found this quote from a Philadelphia newspaper;
    the name has been omitted until the end for effect:

    " If ever a nation was debauched by a man, the American nation has
    been debauched by . . . .  If ever a nation has suffered from the
    improper influence of a man, the American nation has suffered from
    the influence of . . . .  If ever a nation was deceived by a man, the
    American nation has been deceived by . . . .  Let his conduct then be
    an example to future ages.  Let it serve to be a warning that no man
    may be an idol."

    The man being berated is none other than the father of our country,
    and the editor of the paper was Ben Franklin's grandson.

    Now to get back on topic:  my family and i listened to Fulton Lewis
    Jr. ever night at six on the local Mutual station, and if memory
    serves, though these days mine often double faults, Lewis was not shy
    about advocating his positions and attacking those who disagreed with
    him.  If I'm remembering incorrectly, I'm certain someone will
    correct me.

    George Kelly

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 13:23:56 -0400
    From: Steve Lewis <stevelewis62@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  INQUIRY: Escaped madmen

    A book I read recently started out the same way I remember lots and lots of
    OTR shows.  An inmate at a mental institution makes an escape, and is
    either picked up as a hitchhiker by a passing motorist, or becomes a
    passenger on a busful of people, or holds up a gas station and murders
    people filling up at the pump adn steals their car, or ... well, I imagine
    you get the idea.

    My question is, I don't remember the programs or the titles of the shows
    themselves.  SUSPENSE, more than likely, and INNER SANCTUM, or THE
    WHISTLER, and all kinds of similar series.

    Does this ring any bells?  Can anyone come up with specific shows?  If
    possible, please reply to me as well as on list.

    				Best

    				 Steve (from CT)

    PS. The book I was reading is PITY HIM AFTERWARDS by mystery writer Donald
    E. Westlake.  The opening chapter comes straight out of OTR.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 23:39:38 +0000
    From: Rutledge Mann <cliff_marsland@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  do any pre-WOR Jean Shepherds exist?

    Hi all,

    I forgot to ask this yesterday, but do any pre-WOR
    Jean Sheps exist (I've heard a few do), and more
    importantly, what would the the best source for the
    highest quality copy?  I'd esp. like to hear his
    Cincinnati show.

    Trav

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 23:39:50 +0000
    From: "joe@[removed]" <sergei01@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  white feller

    WF's name was changed to Scout on the radio long before 1948.

    js

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 23:40:01 +0000
    From: "karl tiedemann" <karltiedemann@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Abbott and Costello Meet Murrow and
      Seldes

    A good version of the A & C mudder/fodder routine is found in their film,
    THE NOOSE HANGS HIGH.  And the script for the picture is in the Lincoln
    Center Research Library here in New York, if that's geographically convenient.

    I believe they also do the routine in an episode of their filmed TV show
    called "Las Vegas."

    Also, many of their bits, including this one, are transcribed in Richard J.
    Anobile's old book, WHO'S ON FIRST, which I've seen on [removed] for
    as little as one dollar.
    I don't believe that anyone has mentioned one nice aspect of the
    Benny-Seldes business:  Milt Josefsberg told of how Gilbert Seldes was
    invited on to the Benny show to amplify his complaint about insult humor.
    The gang then showed him what the show would be like without insults,
    leading to a sickly sweet sketch which had Seldes finally getting fed up,
    insulting everyone and storming off!  Reportedly, a good time was had by
    [removed]  I have to go along, by the by, with Miss McLeod's opinion that
    Seldes' writings are well worth looking at; his THE SEVEN LIVELY ARTS was a
    pioneering bit of cultural criticism (came out in 1924, I believe.
    I keep rather hoping the Ed Murrow thread will die out, but since it hasn'[removed]

    I can't say that I found the Jack Shafer piece vitriolic, as someone said;
    it was definitely snarky in places and that I could certainly have done
    without, but I found many of its points very interesting, such as citing
    Jack Gould's opinion that ABC's broadcasting the Army-McCarthy hearings was
    what really sank the senator.  Also, his contention that the "heaviest
    Hollywood airbrushing" came in during the film's handling of the Milo
    Radulovich and Annie Lee Moss cases goes to a point that I don't think
    anyone has touched on here yet:  Could the filmmakers conceivably be trying
    to discredit all American anti-Communist sentiment by tying it to McCarthy
    and his idiocies?  In short, are they pulling a "guilt by association"
    (ironically enough)?

    James Bowman has had a crack at this:

    ".... [T]he film's director, George Clooney, and his co-writer, Grant
    Heslov, have completely bought into the official Hollywood version of the
    McCarthy era. It's hardly surprising, but it's quite [removed]

    "Most of those who were seriously affected had been and in some cases still
    were communists or communist sympathizers-- which in those days meant
    agents or would-be agents of Josef Stalin or his heirs, foreign dictators
    whose massive military might was geared for war against America, whose
    proxies were or had recently been killing American soldiers in Korea and
    who were responsible for what at the time were the greatest mass murders in
    history.

    ".... There are plenty of reasons to regret McCarthy's career, but to
    regard him as a terrorist amounts to a willful refusal to understand "The
    Truth" that the film and the media culture it represents here
    characteristically claim as their own property.

    ".... [T]he questions that anyone without Hollywood's and the media's
    vested interests in self-mythologizing would want to have answered are
    these: Were there, in fact, any communists in Hollywood, the press, or the
    government, and were they a real danger to the republic?
    These questions the movie never thinks it worth its while to ask, let alone
    [removed]

    "One line of Murrow's attack on McCarthy stands out for a Truth that is
    more, one hopes, than mere advertising hype. It is that 'mature Americans
    can engage in the clash of ideas without being contaminated.'

    "That may have been true in the 1950s. But a movie like this one, which
    feels it necessary to protect us from any genuine controversy, suggests
    that it is so no longer."

    (Which reminds me of the line from Jonathan Reynolds' wonderful play a few
    years back, STONEWALL JACKSON'S HOUSE, wherein a theatre producer is made
    to say:  "Audiences only like controversy [in a play or film] when they
    AGREE with it!")

    I found this line of thought striking, given especially that some very
    prominent Hiollywood figures still clearly admire charismatic killers like
    Castro and Che, and also given the fact that the American entertainment
    establishment has never made, for example, a SCHINDLER'S LIST of the
    Gulag-- or really any film (that I can think of) that does for the horrors
    of Communism what scores of films have done for the crimes of fascism.

    Someone mentioned the venerable slogan "Question Authority."  Well and
    good-- and these days the entertainment industry seems to be wielding an
    awful lot of it.

    Well, anyway-- I sincerely hope that we may soon put triviailities like
    this behind us and get on to discussing the things that really
    matter--  like the A & P Gypsies and Baby [removed]

    Yours Truly,

                                      Karl Tiedemann

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 23:40:08 +0000
    From: "Jed Dolnick" <jdolnick@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Dunning Book ref Gunsmoke

    I just got my copy of John Dunning's Encyclopedia of Old Time Radio. It's
    incredible, mammoth, and well worth the money.

    At the outset, I'm just looking up my favorite OTR programs rather than
    reading cover-to-cover. In the section on Gunsmoke, he wrote about "The New
    Hotel" rehearsal that we're all familiar with. Now, I've listened to that
    tape dozens of times but what I hear at one point is not what Dunning
    described. Perhaps someone with better hearing can tell me which version is
    correct.

    In the story, Enoch Mills hires Gil Shanks to guard the new hotel. When
    they meet with Dillon, Shanks says, "Well with the law being so loose
    around here, we gotta protect your hotel". Everyone breaks up, and someone
    says, "That goddamn shrimp story does it every time". To me, they were
    laughing at the formulaic nature of the story line. But Dunning writes that
    someone committed a gastric indiscretion, and the comment was "That goddamn
    shrimp curry does it every time". Wow, talk about two different
    interpretations. I just listened to it with the volume cranked up, and that
    is not what I'm hearing!

    Jed

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 23:40:15 +0000
    From: <whhsa@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Timing!

    Dear Folks:
    Peace.
    In the remarks about timing I contacted Ray Kemper who responded thusly:
    "I have no idea what shows Hal Stone did but he is certainly wrong about the
    asst. director (or associate director, the two terms are synonymous) timing
    radio shows. I worked as associate director on Straight Arrow and one of my
    primary duties was to time the show. There would often be a second person,
    usually the script girl (script secretary) who would also time the program
    during rehearsals and on the air, that way there would always be two stop
    watches working on everything, thereby preventing mistakes. In my memory,
    the director never timed the show, he had too many other things to do. I can
    testify that the same type of thing occurred on radio's Gunsmoke and any
    other radio show I worked those many years ago. On Gunsmoke, the asst.
    director would time the show (in that case, Frank Paris) and Norm
    Macdonnell's "Girl Friday" Ann Gaffney, would also time it. I never saw Norm
    time anything on the program."

    Manituwah,

    Bill

    Coming soon ~ the definitive book on the Nabisco Straight Arrow promotion of
    the late 40s and 50s.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 23:40:24 +0000
    From: Sean Dougherty <seandd@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Newark Star-Ledger Covers Friends of Old
      Time Radio

    FOTR gets a plug in today's Newark Star-Ledger - calling particular
    attention to Simon Jones' interview on Friday afternoon.

    The coverage is online here:
    [removed];coll=1

    Sean Dougherty
    SeanDD@[removed]

    --------------------------------
    End of [removed] Digest V2005 Issue #322
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