Subject: [removed] Digest V2001 #243
From: "OldRadio Mailing Lists" <[removed]@[removed];
Date: 7/28/2001 9:03 PM

To: <[removed]@[removed];

    ------------------------------

                                The Old-Time Radio Digest!
                                  Volume 2001 : Issue 243
                             A Part of the [removed]!
                                     ISSN: 1533-9289

                                     Today's Topics:

      Joke explanation, please              [ Alan Bell <bella@[removed]; ]
      Erik Barnouw--Fresh Air Interview (A  [ CHETCOP@[removed] (Chet Copeland) ]
      Re: Pete Kelly's Blues                [ "Michael Hayde" <mmeajv@[removed]; ]
      Re: Some favorite hero's, detectives  [ "Michael Hayde" <mmeajv@[removed]; ]
      Favorite OTR Dicks                    [ "stephen jansen" <stephenjansen@ema ]
      Call Letters                          [ "A. Joseph Ross" <lawyer@attorneyro ]
      Station ID requirements               [ "A. Joseph Ross" <lawyer@attorneyro ]
      Quick comments                        [ "Roby McHone" <otr_alaska@[removed] ]
      OTR Adaptation of Detective -- Nick   [ "Stephen A Kallis, Jr." <skallisjr@ ]
      The Master Shadow?                    [ "Stephen A Kallis, Jr." <skallisjr@ ]
      JDollar/detectives                    [ "Ryan Osentowski" <rosentowski@neb. ]
      More Pete than Patsy                  [ "Mike Kerezman" <philipmarlowe@eart ]
      Mrs Calabash                          [ "George Coppen" <gacoppen@[removed] ]
      Re: Radio Detectives: THE SHADOW      [ SanctumOTR@[removed] ]
      Favorites now or then? Eddie Anderso  [ Jer51473@[removed] ]
      Great Posts on Detectives!            [ Oliver <joliver@[removed]; ]

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 22:33:50 -0400
    From: Alan Bell <bella@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Joke explanation, please

    Time for another joke explanation, if possible. I have a feeling that
    it's just a play on words that, for some reason, is sailing right
    over my head.

    Jack Benny Program 2-21-37

    Mary is going to go to New York

    Kenny Baker:	Say Mary, will you do me a favor?
    Mary: 		Sure, Kenny, what is it?
    Kenny:		When you come back from New York would you mind bringing
    		me back some oysters?
    Jack:		Oysters? Kenny, can't you get oysters right here in town?
    Kenny:		Yes, but there's no "R" in Los Angeles.

    (Big laugh)
    --
    Alan Bell
    Grandville, MI
    bella@[removed]

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 00:08:00 -0400
    From: CHETCOP@[removed] (Chet Copeland)
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Erik Barnouw--Fresh Air Interview (Audio)

    Erik Barnouw--Fresh Air Interview (Audio)

    NPR's Fresh Air: Friday - July 27, 2001

    "We remember one of the most respected historians of the media Erik
    Barnouw. He died last week at the age of 93. He was the author of the
    classic three-volume History of Broadcasting. Barnouw was the first
    chief of the Library of Congress' Motion Picture, Broadcasting, and
    Recording Sound Division.

    In 1996 Barnouw wrote a memoir about his life, Media Marathon: A 20th
    Century Memoir."

    Listen to FA's (1996) interview (15 [removed])
    [removed]

    Fresh Air's page on Barnouw
    [removed]

    Chet Copeland/nyc

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 00:08:08 -0400
    From: "Michael Hayde" <mmeajv@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Re: Pete Kelly's Blues

    Mike Kerezman wrote:

>     On the subject the Jack Webb, while most people point to DRAGNET and PAT
>     NOVAK as his best offerings, and JEFF REAGAN and JOHNNY MADERO, PIER 23 as
>     his weaker efforts; one show that is consistently overlooked is PETE KELLY'S
>     BLUES. Although this show was only on for about 2 months it inspired a later
>     FILM of the same name and a brief TV show. Its kind of like Pat Novak with
>     More Music. This show is truly a piece of art.

    PETE KELLY'S BLUES ran for thirteen weeks and the similarities between KELLY
    and NOVAK are more than coincidental: Webb and Richard L. Breen created both
    shows.  Many of Breen's scripts were cannibalized for the 1959 TV series,
    which also ran 13 weeks.  I sure wish there were more PETE KELLY's in
    circulation, especially since the one that is ("June Night") wasn't written
    by Breen, but by Jo Eisenger.  (Breen also wrote the 1955 feature.)

    Michael J. Hayde

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 00:07:58 -0400
    From: "Michael Hayde" <mmeajv@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Re: Some favorite hero's, detectives etc.

    Al Ragonnet wrote:

>     My favorite Jay Novello role was on (excuse me) TV when he played the
>     legendary bank robber Willie Sutton in a show whose title I can't
>     recall.

    I just checked my notes: Jay Novello DID play Sutton on "Gangbusters" in
    [removed] and it was a THREE-part episode.  Since "Gangbusters" was
    alternating with "Dragnet" back then, it took SIX WEEKS to finish this
    story!  Talk about a mini-series!

    Michael J. Hayde

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 11:09:06 -0400
    From: "stephen jansen" <stephenjansen@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Favorite OTR Dicks

         With all of this recent discussion regarding our favorite OTR
    Detectives, I had to join in with my vote for the Firesign Theater's NICK
    DANGER, THIRD EYE.  So what if he's not actually OTR, just a parody/tribute
    to all hard-boiled 1940's detectives and OTR in general?
         If you haven't heard of Nick Danger or the Firesign Theater, RUN, DON'T
    WALK, and find the album "How Can You Be In Two Places At Once When You're
    Not Anywhere At All".  This early '70's record should be at any used record
    store worth it's salt, and should still be available on cd
    (Sony/Legacy/Columbia label).  It's easy to recognize, it features Marx and
    Lennon on the cover (that's Groucho Marx and John Lennon - get it?).
         The 28-minute episode on this record was supposedly broadcast on
    December 6, 1941.  I laughed myself silly when I first heard it in the
    mid-'80's, long before I knew much at all about OTR.  Now that I am more
    informed about OTR, the 1940's, film noir, and the world in general, this
    Nick Danger bit is funnier than ever.  I pick up new things in it every time
    I listen.
         Evidently, the Firesign guys based Nick Danger (Third Eye) on the
    "Yours Truly, Johnny Dollar" series.  It is filled with OTR in-jokes, and
    constantly breaking down the invisible wall between the actors, the sound
    effects crew, the engineer, and the audience.  I once played it for a bunch
    of friends and didn't listen, I just counted the laughs - more than 100 -
    not bad for 28 minutes!
         Aside from a few drug references (hey, it WAS the 1970's, after all!) I
    couldn't possibly see any OTR fan not completely enjoying this incredible
    detective show.  Search out this album or cd, it's well worth it!  You might
    even end up a fan of the rest of the Firesign Theater's work.  They also
    parody Charlie Chan (or another oriental detective) and Sherlock Holmes in
    later albums.  For pure conceptual stream-of-conciousness humor, they can't
    be beat (there's nothing else like them)!

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 11:09:10 -0400
    From: "A. Joseph Ross" <lawyer@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Call Letters

>     Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 18:31:45 -0400
>     From: "ANDREW OOMS" <oomspine@[removed];

>          The city of license aspect is interesting, because as long as it is
>     mentioned first, any other cities can be mentioned.

    It may be apocryphal, but there is supposed to have once been a
    station in San Francisco that wanted to call itself WKRP, after the TV
    show.  SInce a W call in San Francisco was out of the question, they
    changed their name to KRPN.  Then they IDed saying "This is W -
    KRPN - San Francisco."  Say it fast, and it sounds like they said, "This
    is WKRP in San Francisco."  As I say, I don't know whether it's a true
    story, but it sure is an interesting one.

>          The trend now of identifying stations by names and slogans (Rock 95,
>     Mix 98, etc) is because modern audiences are more interested in words than
>     in call letters,

    Identifying stations by call letters seems to be largely a North American
    phenomenon.  In much of the rest of the world, stations are identified by
    name.  Call letters began in the days of wireless telegraphy, when a
    code of a few letters saved a lot of keying.  They've become a venerable
    radio custom, but aren't really necessary.  I believe that in Canada,
    stations now only need to announce their call letters at sign on and sign
    off, and CBC stations especially only identify as "CBC Halifax" or
    something like that.

     A. Joseph Ross, [removed]                           [removed]
     15 Court Square, Suite 210          lawyer@[removed]
     Boston, MA 02108-2503           [removed]

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 11:09:13 -0400
    From: "A. Joseph Ross" <lawyer@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Station ID requirements

>     Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 10:07:40 -0400
>     From: "Robert Paine" <macandrew@[removed];

>     I remember station management and others kicking around the issue
>     that the FCC had an option that permitted an ID at :15 and :45 past but I
>     won't testify that I saw it in the rules and regs.

    I did see it in the FCC regs back in the 1960s, when I was in college
    and active in the campus radio station.  I believe it was in the AM regs,
    but not the FM regs.  As I remember it, the requirement was on the hour
    and on both quarter hours, as an alternative to on the hour and on the
    half hour.

     A. Joseph Ross, [removed]                           [removed]
     15 Court Square, Suite 210          lawyer@[removed]
     Boston, MA 02108-2503           [removed]

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 11:09:21 -0400
    From: "Roby McHone" <otr_alaska@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Quick comments

    Just a couple of quick comments:
    On radio dectives-RyanO mentiones Night Beat.  Although Night Beat is not
    really a detective show it is a very good immitation of one and I agree that
    Frank Lovejoy was the perfect actor to play Randy Stone.
    Speaking of [removed] Stone and Ian Grieve crack me up, they should be on
    the stag together (maybe with Don Rickles).

    Roby McHone
    Fairbanks Alaska

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 11:20:46 -0400
    From: "Stephen A Kallis, Jr." <skallisjr@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  OTR Adaptation of Detective -- Nick Carter

    Bryan Powell, speaking of detectives, notes,

>     By the way, it's a discussion all its own, but I think it's essential
>     to distinguish the hard-boiled school, a la 1930s "Black Mask" and "Dime
>     Detective," from the earlier generation of puzzle solvers.

    To nail it back to OTR, those familiar with the laid-back Nick Carter,
    Master Detective, might be very surprised if they come across a copy of
    one of the earlier dime novels from which the radio character sprung.
    There is quite a contrast.  The dime novel version is literally a man of
    action, not quite the polar opposite of his OTR avatar.

    Stephen A. Kallis, Jr.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 11:20:48 -0400
    From: "Stephen A Kallis, Jr." <skallisjr@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  The Master Shadow?

    Mike Ray notes,

>     I also like the Shadow with Orson Welles. Welles was and is the great
>     hero of my life for radio drama. He was the Master Shadow and no one else
>     came close.

    Depends upon what you're looking for in invisible men.  :-)  Actually, I
    prefer the Bret Morrison version.  In the early Orson Welles days, the
    powers and origins of The Shadow weren't fully crystallized, and Lamont
    Cranston was, in the introduction, a scientist who was using superior
    crimefighting tools he had developed that some day might be made
    available to "other" law-enforcement agents.  By Morrison's time, the
    legend had reached its full form with years ago Lamont Cranston learning
    in the Orient the mysterious power to cloud men's [humans'] minds so they
    cannot see him.  In Welles version, the powers of The Shadow weren't
    clearly delineated.  Besides some sort of invisibility, he could use
    "voice projection" ventriloquism, some telepathy, etc.  This led to
    entertaining shows, but sort of "anything goes" solutions to problems.
    Layter versions just had the basic power of invisibility.

    Stephen A. Kallis, Jr.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 11:20:52 -0400
    From: "Ryan Osentowski" <rosentowski@[removed];
    To: "old time radio" <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  JDollar/detectives

    Hi all:
    There are a couple of points I wanted to respond to from the previous
    digest.
    First, thanks to all of you for teaching me the correct spelling of,
    Marlowe. *smile*
    Bryan mentioned the Mandel Kramer Johnny Dollar shows.  I must admit that
    Kramer had a very large pair of shoes to fill when he took over the role and
    he did a good job.  This is due, in part, to Kramer's ability as an actor.
    I've always enjoyed him, whether he is playing a vicious gangster on
    Gangbusters, or the smooth Harry Peters on Counterspy.  I also say this
    because Bob Readick, who took over the role from Bob Bailey, dropped that
    large pair of shoes.  Readick was a good actor, but he didn't capture Dollar
    at all.  However, I feel that Kramer already had a strike against him
    because of the time format of the show.  When I first got into Johnny
    Dollar, I was spoiled by the five-part shows.  I bought a few of the
    half-hour Bob Bailey versions and was sadly disappointed.  I was used to
    getting about 70 minutes of story, and suddenly, it was reduced to about 21
    minutes of actual plot per episode.  When Dollar first reverted back to a
    half-hour format, he actually got about 28 minutes of plot per show, with
    only one 60-second commercial break in the middle.  This was pretty easy for
    me to swallow.  But, for some reason in mid 1957, the network began cutting
    out plot time for commercials, breaking the story down to about 21 minutes.
    This forced the writers to cram an entire case into a time frame that was
    little more than one episode of the five-part shows.  The show has a hurried
    and unrealistic feel to it at this point.  Kramer faced this same problem,
    but I do enjoy hearing him in the Dollar role.  The time constraint is also
    what hurt the Gunsmoke radio shows in later years as well as other programs
    like Suspense and Have Gun Will Travel.  There is so little time for good
    story development, that it doesn't seem worth the effort to me to listen at
    all.
    Also, hat's off to Mike Ray for pointing out Tales of the Texas Rangers.  I
    can't believe I forgot to mention this one in my list of faves.  Maybe I
    wasn't thinking of it as a "detective" show, although it certainly qualifies
    in the world of modern crime fiction.  Joel McCrea may not have been the
    best actor, but he was perfect as the laid-back, but determined Ranger
    Pierson.  Also, I kind of like hearing the actual crime being committed and
    then hearing how the Rangers unravel the mystery.  It adds a bit of drama to
    the show that we don't find in Dragnet, although Webb's style is fascinating
    as well.
    Two shows that were mentioned that I must comment on are, The Man Called X
    and Broadway is My Beat.  I have to say that I really dislike Mr. X.  Not
    only is it a cookie-cutter spy show, but I honestly don't care for Herbert
    Marshall's acting style.  He sounds half-awake when he's delivering his
    lines.  It is very stereotypical, although I understand why it was done when
    looking at it in the context of the post WWII and Cold War era.
    Broadway is My Beat is a great show if you don't waste time comparing it to
    Dragnet.  The writing is very [removed] poetic.  Unfortunately, Larry
    Thor brings it down.  I picture Danny Clover as a cop who is a capped
    volcano.  He is a man who understands the violence and grit of the streets
    of New York City, because that dark potential for violence exists in him.
    It is difficult to understand why Elliott Lewis picked Thor to play this
    role.  I feel that Thor was better suited to be a radio announcer.  Oh, if
    only Mr. Lewis had played the role, himself.
    With that, I am done.  Thanks for reading.
    RyanO

    "Life is an unrelenting comedy.  Therein, lies the tragedy of it."
    Dean Koontz

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 11:20:53 -0400
    From: "Mike Kerezman" <philipmarlowe@[removed];
    To: "OTR DIGEST" <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  More Pete than Patsy

>     I like Pete Kelly's Blues, but it had a different flavor than Pat Novak.
>     It was set in the 1920s, and gave a good impression of the era.  Just as
>     the classical bridges in The Lone Ranger added authenticity to the mythic
>     aspect of the show, the jazz in Pete Kelly's Blues framed the show in the
>     Roaring 20s.  Regrettably, relatively few Pete Kelly's Blues survive

    I just like to comment that in Pete Kell'y Blues the MUSIC is much more a
    part of the Story. The Msuic is almost a character in the story. Take the
    "Vita Brand Matter" Pete and his band play several numbers in the bar in
    between conversation with his band members about deciding what he's to do
    about the Gunsell (sic) who is pressuring him into a shotgun wedding with
    Vita, a complete stranger to Pete. The Music served much more than musical
    bridge by for the program, but it is a vital part of the story.

    Also there is a circulating episode of Pete Kelly's Blues on the internet
    that that is Titled "Little Jake". This is either a Pat Novak show
    mislabeled or a Pat Novak show plot line that was recycled into Pete Kelly's
    Blues.

    I too have copy of the movie Pete Kelly's Blues with Jack Webb. There is a
    also a CD available from AMAZON of the soundtrack from the movie in which
    Jack Webb narrates (He tells something about each song related to Jazz).

    In the Audition show "Dutch Courtney" William Conrad practically steals the
    show as the ruthless gangster slapping Stacy Harris around in one scene.
    I was intrigued in that I had heard Jack Webb would use a "voice actor" like
    Conrad on Dragnet.

    Mike Kerezman
    Macomb, Oklahoma

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 13:10:47 -0400
    From: "George Coppen" <gacoppen@[removed];
    To: "otr digest" <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Mrs Calabash

    I was listening to a Jimmy Durante show last night and of course the show
    came to an end with Jimmy saying " Goodnight Mrs. Calabash, Wherever You
    Are". Now I have heard a story about a lady that owned a restaurant in
    Calabash, South Carolina by the name of Lucille Coleman but I ask those of
    you music lovers who might [removed] WAS MRS CALABASH ??

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 13:10:38 -0400
    From: SanctumOTR@[removed]
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Re: Radio Detectives: THE SHADOW

    In a message dated 7/27/01 9:47:29 PM, Mike Ray writes:

>     I also like the Shadow with Orson Welles. Welles was and is the great hero
>     of my life for radio drama.  He was the Master Shadow and no one else came
>     close.

    ***No one else came close?  How about Frank Readick whose opening and closing
    signatures ("Who knows what evil" . . . "The weed of Crime," etc.) open and
    close all the Welles SHADOWS and whose laugh is usually dubbed into the
    stories themselves?  Sorry, as much as I respect Welles work on his MERCURY
    THEATRE broadcasts and on SUSPENSE, THE LIVES OF HARRY LIME and Norman
    Corwin's shows, I can't accept him as the "Master Shadow."  His Lamont
    Cranston comes off as a smart-ass fratboy and lacks the maturity of Bill
    Johnstone's portrayal.

    Welles was lucky enough to star in the best SHADOW scripts (edited by the
    late, great Edith Meiser) and alongside the finest supporting players in the
    history of the series, but that had nothing to do with his own performance
    (which was "phoned-in" without benefit of rehearsal).  And I really can't
    accept him as the best Shadow when he couldn't perform the trademark laugh
    himself (which is the biggest reasons for the use of his predecessor's
    opening and closing signatures).   Readick was the only actor who truly gave
    the role an etherial "shadowy" quality (as contrasted with the almost
    Shakespearian declaration of Bret Morrison. --ANTHONY TOLLIN***

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 13:10:43 -0400
    From: Jer51473@[removed]
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Favorites now or then? Eddie Anderson

     After reading everyones favorite detective shows, in most cases it is
    unclear if certain posters are talking about their favorites as they listen
    today or are they talking about when they listened during the heyday of
    radio. Choices do change in many cases im sure. As for me, I listen almost
    entirely to comedy shows today and seldom to detectectives. I must say
    however, that the most boring det. show I ever listened to then and now has
    to be Sherlock Holmes. I did, however like the Holmes movies of the
    forties/fifties. In no certain order my favorites "back then" were: sam
    spade, the fat man, the thin man, boston blackie, mr. keen, mr. and mrs.
    north, casey cp, big town, and gangbusters.  Also, in Elizabeths bio on Eddie
    Anderson I was surprised to see the ommision of his role in Cabin in the Sky.
    I thought he was great in that film version.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 19:55:15 -0400
    From: Oliver <joliver@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Great Posts on Detectives!

    I've been a lurker to this list for a very long time, and now want to drop
    in long enough to comment on the continued high quality of many of the
    submissions. One would think that we would talk the subject out at some
    point, but [removed] In a recent issue both Bryan Powell and Mike Ray
    submitted very insightful posts on the detective genre.  It's obvious both
    know their detective history ([removed], Chandler, Hammett, Black Mask, etc.)
    and also the form as it appeared on radio.  Thoughtful, rich content of
    posts such as those submitted by Powell, Ray, and many others, continue to
    make the Digest a satisfying reading experience every day.  Thanks.

    Joe Oliver

    --------------------------------
    End of [removed] Digest V2001 Issue #243
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