Subject: [removed] Digest V2005 #142
From: [removed]@[removed]
Date: 5/7/2005 4:00 PM
To: [removed]@[removed]

------------------------------


                            The Old-Time Radio Digest!
                              Volume 2005 : Issue 142
                         A Part of the [removed]!
                             [removed]
                                 ISSN: 1533-9289


                                 Today's Topics:

  Re: You Bet Your Life, and the accur  [ "W. Gary W." <wgaryw@[removed]; ]
  RE: Least Favorite Radio Programs     [ "Kirby, Tom" <Kirby@[removed]; ]
  Least Favorite Radio Program          [ "James Yellen" <clifengr3@[removed] ]
  re: radio minimalism                  [ "bcockrum" <rmc44@[removed]; ]
  Highly-rated shows we don't like      [ danhughes@[removed] ]
  My 5 worst Old Time Radio programs    [ "mike ray" <mikeray42@[removed]; ]
  Re: Auk                               [ Illoman <illoman@[removed]; ]
  OTR Mentioned In The New LIFE         [ "Paul Williams" <lovemotherearth@ec ]
  You Bet Your Life on radio            [ "A. Joseph Ross" <lawyer@attorneyro ]
  Walden Hughes YUSA Program            [ BryanH362@[removed] ]
  Vonzell, American Idol and Harry      [ "Tim Lones" <tlones@[removed]; ]
  Least favorite?                       [ Herb Harrison <herbop@[removed] ]
  5-7 births/deaths                     [ Ron Sayles <bogusotr@[removed]; ]
  Re: Vic & [removed] second wor  [ Rodney Bowcock <pasttense_78@yahoo. ]
  Re: VE day coverage on XM             [ Charlie Summers <charlie@[removed] ]
  Click! Click! Click!                  [ "MICHAEL BIEL" <mbiel@[removed]; ]
  least favorite                        [ OTRadiofan@[removed] (Stuart Lubin) ]

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 May 2005 18:42:04 -0400
From: "W. Gary W." <wgaryw@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Re: You Bet Your Life, and the accuracy of
 performer's memories. . .

David Ballarotto wrote:
can anyone explain exactly when "You Bet Your Life"
stopped producing a radio version?

the last original broadcast of the radio version of
YBYL was on 6/10/60.  the tv version continued for
another year, with the last original tv broadcast on
6/29/61.

In "The Secret Word is Groucho," Marx says they
stopped doing a radio show in 1957, and Dunning's
book gives a final radio air date of 1956.
<snip>
You have to assume Groucho knew what he was talking
about when the radio show ended

well, now, i wouldn't say *that*. . .   :)

this is just another example of the incredible amount
of inaccuracy you'll find in the memoirs of most of
the major radio comedians, not to mention in writings
about them.  i wouldn't expect the performers to have
photographic recall, but facts such as when a series
went off the air are *so* easy to verify, one has to
wonder whether the companies publishing these books
ever bothered to put a fact checker on them.

another prime example of this: jack benny talking
about the start of the feud with fred allen.  jack
claimed on numerous ocassions that he and fred didn't
even talk to each other about the feud until "8 or 9
months" after it had started.  this is quite
impossible, since the feud started in late december
1936, and climaxed with benny and allen meeting on
jack's show in march of 1937.

when it comes to hardcore facts, personal
recollections by the performers should always be
suspect.  i'm sure i'm not alone in having found
serious, obvious, glaring errors in bios written by
associates, and even in some supposedly scholarly
works.  i'm not talking about getting a minor fact or
two wrong, i'm talking about major, easily corrected
misinformation.

fred allen's "treadmill to oblivion" seems to me to be
an exception-- at least *i* can't cite any obvious
errors from his text.

Also, if you listened to the radio version of the
episode on Wednesday, was the next night on
television the video version of that episode, or
would you see the game with those contestants at
some other point?

for the most part, the radio and tv shows were the
same for any given week.  but there are two caveats:

first, the radio and tv versions were differently
*edited*, due to the need to remove primarily visual
material from the radio version.

second, in some cases the edits were so substantially
different that the contestant couples would need to be
juggled around between shows.  this didn't happen
often, and of course, this was only possible to do
when the format of the quiz was changed in the fall of
1956, so that the couples were no longer competing
with each other (instead of trying to win more money
than the other couples, the contestants merely had to
answer 4 questions in a row correctly without missing
2 in a row).

one good example of the variations is the commonly
circulating show with edgar bergen and gladys bentley
(radio air date 5/12/58, tv airdate 5/15/58).  gladys
bentley performs "them there eyes" in the tv version,
accompanied by groucho doing a funny dance, all of
which is completely cut out of the radio version.

oddly enough, though, it is the *tv* version which
includes a third pair of contestants not on the radio
broadcast to pad the program's length, because so much
dialog included in the radio version was edited out of
the tv version (don't ask me why-- the material cut
was very funny!)

in these later years, groucho's "costume" for the show
was never changed, so that if footage needed to be
combined from more than one program, it would be
seemless.

--w. gary w.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 May 2005 18:42:29 -0400
From: "Kirby, Tom" <Kirby@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  RE: Least Favorite Radio Programs

I have to disagree with Ron Sayles' choice of 'Amos 'n' Andy' as
the worst radio program, because it's purely a matter of personal
choice. I haven't any of the "serial" versions of that program,
because I'm not a fan of serials, but I loved it when they switched
to the "sitcom" format.

And I don't miss the sound effects in Lum and Abner, I just listen
to what is there. Again, personal preference.

I don't know that I've listened to enough programs to have developed
any "least favorites", but there are some things that I have learned:

I like the Jack Benny show, but I like the later ones, when they are
concentrating on the "cheap" persona, and especially the ones with
Frank Nelson. Some of the ones dealing with his collecting habits
(buying an ostrich, a camel, Carmichael the polar bear) just didn't
amuse me AS MUCH. I think those were earlier episodes. But yes, I did
miss Dennis Day and the silliness he brought with him.

I like the Fred Allen show, especially the skits later in the program
where Fred shows off his talent for the ad-lib. The Allens Alley part
of the program isn't as funny to me.

I like comedy, science fiction, horror, and the occasional detective
mystery (Philo Vance and Mr. Keen to name a couple), but I don't like
the serials. I don't get into Johnny Dollar because it takes 5 episodes
to get the story, from what I read here.

My mom used to stay with my great-grandmother while her mother was
working at the torpedo plant in WWII, and she learned that there were
certain hours of the day that she was supposed to sit down and be
quiet, because my great-grandmother did not want any interruptions
while she listened to the afternoon soaps. I'll have to ask her which
ones she remembers, but in any case, I never did acquire a taste for
serials myself.

I guess you can put any of the serials down as my "Least Favorite
Radio Programs".

No offense intended to serials fans. There might be one other person on
this list who collects ancient coins, so I know that not everyone is the
same.

Have fun,

-- Tom Kirby

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 May 2005 18:43:02 -0400
From: "James Yellen" <clifengr3@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Least Favorite Radio Program

Date: Thu, 5 May 2005 16:12:24 -0400
From: Ron Sayles <bogusotr@[removed];
To: Olde Tyme Radio Digest <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  Least Favorite Radio Programs

Ron Sayles recently asked:

Have you ever given thought to what your least favorite radio programs
are?

My opinion on this is I LOVE A MYSTERY.

Blah-blah-blah-yada-yada-yada-yawn-yawn-yawn

Jim Yellen

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 May 2005 22:03:34 -0400
From: "bcockrum" <rmc44@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  re: radio minimalism

I have to agree with some of the recent comments in the digest and elsewhere
about the "talking heads" radio shows. Vic and Sade? Not bad and often funny
with its subtle cleverness; ditto, Easy Aces. But the chatty, understated
delivery makes me as tired as the characters usually sound. And here I go
about to make another group mad -- Lum and Abner: When it wasn't being
not-funny, it was just downright silly. OK, as a kid I enjoyed The Beverly
Hillbillies the first couple of seasons, then I realized nobody can be that
dumb year after year. To each his own.

I can agree with Elizabeth, though, when she refers to layers of sound
effects and music. The current Focus on the Family Radio Theatre offerings
that are on cassette and CD are promoted as having "cinema quality sound
design." The problem with that is, it isn't the cinema that they are doing.
I don't know if there is such as thing as too high of high fidelity, too
stereo of stereophonic, but they push the limit in which the sound (and
music) become overpowering and the acting is lost. There's an episode of
21st Precinct that I like ... two policemen get out of their car ... they're
walking on the sidewalk, but there is only one set of footsteps. So was one
riding piggyback? You actually have to be paying more attention than the
normal casual listener to notice it ... and the one set carried the scene
just as well, instead of cluttering it up.

Bob Cockrum

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 May 2005 22:04:02 -0400
From: danhughes@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Highly-rated shows we don't like

Ron Sayles started this; I'd like my turn too (and hope you take your
turn).

So--Radio programs I don't much care for:

Fibber, Gildy, especially The Life of Riley, and any other sitcom where
the husband/father/main male is an idiot and the wife / main female / ANY
female is the stabilizing force of the family / program.  The one BIG
exception to this is The Phil Harris Show, where Phil and Frankie are to
me the funniest pair-up in all of OTR.

I also am left fairly cold by Charlie McCarthy.  And especially Abbott &
Costello and other programs where yelling and screaming substitute for
humor (see The Carol Burnette Show, several decades later).

On the serious side, I don't much like Dragnet (storylines based on fact
are seldom as interesting as those that are totally fiction) or the
Shadow (often the violence is overwhelming).  Give me the Whistler or
Suspense anytime.

---Dan

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 7 May 2005 08:02:46 -0400
From: "mike ray" <mikeray42@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  My 5 worst Old Time Radio programs

Hi Gang:
I must say, that I don't have a worst program for OTR. I just don't. I can't
think of a bad one. I really can't. The golden age was truly wonderful. I
long for those days. Yes, there were shows I liked better than others, but no
bad [removed] for Amos 'n Andy. Those guys were great, and truly funny.
More important, was the impact they had on our country at that time. The
white and black world was moved by their drama and laughter. And think of all
the African American's who got their start because of these wonderful guys.
My next friend Frank who lives accross the street, (85 Years old) wells up in
his eyes when he talks about them. His grandkids don't get it. But he and I
do. Bravo Freeman and Charles. Bravo indeed.
Best regards,
Mike Ray

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 7 May 2005 08:03:26 -0400
From: Illoman <illoman@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Re: Auk

On Friday, May 6, 2005, at 06:43 PM,
[removed]@[removed] wrote:

I am wondering if Arch Obler's show Night of the Auk exists out there
anywhere?

I would like to get a copy of this as well, please!!

Mike

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 7 May 2005 08:03:47 -0400
From: "Paul Williams" <lovemotherearth@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  OTR Mentioned In The New LIFE

I was suprised that no one has posted the high profile plug for OTR in the
latest issue of the newly ressurected LIFE.  It comes out every Sunday as an
insert similiar to Parade and USA Weekend.  This past weeks edition on page 5
under its column LIFE 5 "Our Editors Pick What To Watch, Read & Listen To.
1. CD 2. Book 3. Pets 4. Web and 5 TV.  Under Web they list
[removed], writing, "Relive the heyday of radio with free audio
downloads of classic programs like Abbot&Costello, The Bob Hope Show and
Superman.
Does anyone know anything about this?  I haven't checked it out yet and
suspect that this is another attempt by Mediabay to repackage their programs.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 7 May 2005 08:04:55 -0400
From: "A. Joseph Ross" <lawyer@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  You Bet Your Life on radio

Date: Thu, 5 May 2005 15:29:14 -0400
From: "David Ballarotto" <balla@[removed];

Since there are so many knowledgeable people here, can anyone explain
exactly when "You Bet Your Life" stopped producing a radio version? 
In "The Secret Word is Groucho," Marx says they stopped doing a radio
show in 1957, and Dunning's book gives a final radio air date of 1956.

What happened was the show ceased to exist as a show in its own right and became a 
feature of NBC's "Monitor."  It continued for several years in that form, first on Saturday 
afternoon and later on Monday evening (when Monitor was extended to weeknights).  The 
only real difference was that the Monitor host would say, "Hey George, you tell us, what's 
the secret word?"  and George would then say what the secret word was, in the same way 
he always would.

But, people who write books and check radio listings often find the date when YBYL ended 
its existence as a separate show on Wednesday nights and don't go further, and they get it 
wrong.  It's not clear just how much of "The Secret Word is Groucho" was written by 
Groucho or whether he would have remembered when the show ended on radio, since the 
end of the radio show didn't change what he was doing.  I don't think the radio version lasted 
until the end of YBYL on television, but it lasted almost as long.

 Also, if you listened to the radio version of the episode on
Wednesday, was the next night on television the video version of
that episode, or would you see the game with those contestants at
some other point? 
 
When I was listening in the mid-1950s, the radio show on Wednesday was the same show 
as the TV show on Thursday.

-- A. Joseph Ross, [removed] [removed] 15 Court Square, Suite 210 lawyer@[removed] Boston, MA 02108-2503 [removed] ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 May 2005 08:05:15 -0400 From: BryanH362@[removed] To: [removed]@[removed] Subject: Walden Hughes YUSA Program live streaming at [removed] live beginning at 7:30 pm Pacific time. Saturday 5-7-05 A. Dick Bertel and Ed Corcoran interview Jack Bishop research writer for Gangbusters B. Walden interviews Chris Volenti of [removed] about his interviews with big band personalities C. Martin Grams talking about Vincent Price D. The Saint E. two Bing Crosby shows F. two Screen Guild shows G. One Man Family 5-7-50 H. Quiz Kinds 8-13-50 I. Information Please Sunday 5-8-05 A. Laura Leff presents Jack Benny of 4-29-45 B. Mike Biel C. VE Day special. this special will mark the 60 years ago when Germany [removed] The special will feature A. big band remote with Duke Ellington B. W. Chuchill speach to an excited audiences in England C. Norman Corwin famious broadcast on A Note of Triumph D. Tom Mix E. Supperman F. Roy Rogers show ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 May 2005 08:05:29 -0400 From: "Tim Lones" <tlones@[removed]; To: <[removed]@[removed]; Subject: Vonzell, American Idol and Harry My wife is just about obseesed with "Idol"..When I heard the name "VonZell, I knew it couldnt have anything to do with [removed] fact she is quite a lovely young black singer, but when I first heard "VonZell" a few weeks ago in connection with American Idol, my first thought was Harry [removed] Tim Lones ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 May 2005 08:05:55 -0400 From: Herb Harrison <herbop@[removed]; To: [removed]@[removed] Subject: Least favorite? As a child of the EARLY television age, I missed most of the radio shows we discuss here when they were first broadcast. I'm hearing many "legendary" series for the first time, and I'm continually astounded by the sheer volume of quality programming that was produced in radio's "golden years". I keep finding episodes of series that I want to hear more of, but one that I can do without is "BOX 13". I like the concept, but Alan Ladd's performance leaves me cold (much like his delivery of his lines). I can't decide if the network bought the show, then searched for a "hot" Hollywood actor to star in it; or if they signed Ladd for a series, then gave him a bunch of scripts for "Box 13" and told him to read into the mic. To be honest, this isn't the worst show I've heard, but it's one of the worst starring a big-name star. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 May 2005 08:06:02 -0400 From: Ron Sayles <bogusotr@[removed]; To: Olde Tyme Radio List <[removed]@[removed]; Subject: 5-7 births/deaths May 7th births 05-07-1884 - Gloria Gordon - d. 11-21-1962 actress: (Mother of Gale Gordon) Mrs. O'Reilly "My Friend Irma" 05-07-1885 - George "Gabby" Hayes - Wellsville, NY - d. 2-9-1969 actor: "Andrews Sisters' Eight-to-the-Bar Ranch"; "Roy Rogers Show" 05-07-1892 - Archibald MacLeish - Glencoe, IL - d. 4-20-1982 writer: "Columbia Workshop" 05-07-1895 - Thomas Darcy, Jr. - Vancouver, WA - d. 5-xx-1968 conducted the United States Army Band on CBS during the 1938 season 05-07-1900 - Ralph Truman - London, England - d. 10-15-1977 actor: John H Watson "BBC Home Theatre" 05-07-1901 - Gary Cooper - Helena, MT - d. 5-14-1961 actor: "Family Theatre"; "Screen Guild Theatre"; 'Lux Radio Theatre" 05-07-1906 - Jack Johnstone - d. 11-16-1991 writer, producer, director: "Buck Rogers"; "CBS Radio Workshop"; "Six Shooter" 05-07-1908 - Edmund MacDonald - MA - d. 9-2-1951 actor: Tommy Hughes "Big Town"; Inspector Burke "Murder Will Out" s 05-07-1915 - Win Elliot - Chelsea, MA - d. 9-17-1998 sportscaster, emcee: "Fish Pond"; "County Fair"; "Quick as a Flash" 05-07-1919 - Eva Peron - Los Toldos, Argentina - d. 7-26-1952 actress, hostess: "Radio Argentina"; "Radio Belgrano" 05-07-1923 - Anne Baxter - Michigan City, IN - d. 12-12-1985 actress: "Lux Radio Theatre" 05-07-1931 - Teresa Brewer - Toledo, OH singer: "Steve Allen Show" May 7th deaths 03-20-1913 - Judith Evelyn - Seneca, SD - d. 5-7-1967 actress: Grace Marshall "Helpmate"; Kay Miniver "Mrs. Miniver" 03-29-1891 - Warner Baxter - Columbus, OH - d. 5-7-1951 actor: "Lux Radio Theatre" 05-18-1922 - Kai Winding - Aarhus, Denmark - d. 5-7-1983 big band musician: "Stan Kenton and His Orchestra"; "One Night Stand"; "Jubilee" 07-13-1934 - Dennis Crosby - CA - d. 5-7-1991 actor: "Bing Crosby Show" 11-21-1894 - Max Miller - Brighton, England - d. 5-7-1963 stand-up comic: "Cheeky Chappie" Spotty BBC career due to blue material 12-09-1909 - Douglas Fairbanks, Jr. - NYC - d. 5-7-2000 actor: "Silent Men"; "This Is War"; "We Care" 12-23-1907 - Don McNeill - Galena, IL (Raised: Sheboygan, WI) - d. 5-7-1996 host: "Breakfast Club" -- Ron Sayles Milwaukee, Wisconsin ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 May 2005 10:00:00 -0400 From: Rodney Bowcock <pasttense_78@[removed]; To: [removed]@[removed] Subject: Re: Vic & [removed] second worst? X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain
2. "Vic and Sade." No story, no sound effects, just three people
talking.

[removed]'d go so far as to call Vic & Sade the absolute best
radio comedy ever.  Sure, it's 3 people talking, but it's three people saying
the funniest things that have ever been said.  Paul Rhymer was a genius.  I'm
frequently in awe of his writing.

Now, The Cisco Kid?  That was pretty bad, and don't get me started on The
Comic Weekly Man.

rodney.

  *** This message was altered by the server, and may not appear ***
  ***                  as the sender intended.                   ***

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 7 May 2005 10:36:27 -0400
From: Charlie Summers <charlie@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Re: VE day coverage on XM

At 6:43 PM -0400 5/6/05, <mbiel@[removed]; is rumored to have typed:

I have been hearing promos on XM that their channel 4, The 40s, is going to
be doing something like 32 straight hours of VE Day OTR this weekend,
possibly starting at 8:35 AM Saturday.

   Ah, would that they [removed]

   They started their badly-recreated "newscasts" at 8:30am EDT; the sound of
the teletype chattering in the background alone was enough to send me running
and screaming into the next room. The "newscasts" are sprinkled between the
standard 1940's music fare of XM Channel 4 (I'm too lazy to check to see if
all of the songs are 1945-and-before), with not a bit of original OTR to be
found (at least as of this writing, ~10:30 am EDT).

   Too [removed] could have done one helluva job by using actual programming.

         Charlie

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 7 May 2005 11:22:50 -0400
From: "MICHAEL BIEL" <mbiel@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Click! Click! Click!

Click! Click! Click!  Do you hear that clicking sound?  Know what it is?
It is the sound of recording machines all over the country turning OFF !
It turns out that the 36 hours of V-E Day coverage that was promised on
XM's 1940s channel are just re-created bulletins by an "Ed Baxter" inserted
at about 15 minute intervals in between their regular line-up of records.
I've never really listened to this channel, and I suppose the newscasts
that the web site mentions that they have several times a day are also
re-creations.

Oh well.  It seemed like a good idea at the time.  The promos gave no
indication that this would be anything other than the legit original
broadcast recordings.

I wonder if "Ed Baxter" is any relation to Ted Baxter?

Michael Biel  mbiel@[removed]

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 7 May 2005 17:58:11 -0400
From: OTRadiofan@[removed] (Stuart Lubin)
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  least favorite

In reading Ron Sayles' five least favorite radio programs, I am reminded
of the old expression: There's no accounting for taste, said the lady
when she kissed the cow.

Stuart Lubin

--------------------------------
End of [removed] Digest V2005 Issue #142
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