
 SEE INFO SECTION AT END OF THIS DIGEST FOR UNSUBSCRIBE AND OTHER INFORMATION. 
	  	         === Last Update 1/17/95  ====





	    [removed]   Volume 96 : Issue 44


Articles in this issue of [removed]:

	 ADMINISTRIVIA: copyrights and Mr. T.
	 Two questions
	 Re: Lectures
	 RE: Our dear friend Marty Tabnik
	       "Radio Charlie" [removed]
	 Les Paul
	 2 questions
	 Microwaves
	  les paul
	 More Bradbury shows
	

----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 23:43:25 -0600 (CST)
From: Bill P <rrb@[removed]>
To: otr@[removed] (Old Time Radio)
Subject: ADMINISTRIVIA: copyrights and Mr. T.
Message-Id: <[removed]@[removed]>

}  alabok@[removed] (Bob Jennings) wrote:
} Subject: copyright controversy
} 
} Hello Everyone;
}         I am sure I am as sick of hearing about the horrors of copyright
} infringement as is almost every other person subscribing to this forum.  Yet
} again, we get a long  warning and scolding from the forum moderator to stop
} the screaming and get on with something else.

Let me set the records straight here.  Neither Lou Genco or myself are
'moderators' in the Usenet sense of the word.  I am the list owner and
Lou and I share co-administrator duties.  Neither of us screens the
posts before they are sent out to the list.  Any input we have on
these matters is almost always after the fact.

}         Let me make a suggestion here.  I've just spent a few hours going
} back over these digest issues and it seems to me that whenever this subject
} is raised there is always one focal point of abuse, one member who
} invariably creates ill will by use of abusive commentary and insults and
} that person is invariably Marty Tabnik.

Marty may, indeed, be the main catalyst of much of the flames on these
topics, but without the participation of others on the list, his (or
anyone else's) flame bait would lie there and rot.  So while I (and
others on the list) concur that Marty may be the chief stirrer of
doo-doo, everyone who interacts with that doo-doo gets a little on
his/her hands too.

}         Indeed, looking back over the digest issues it seems that the only
} time Marty Tabnik participates in the digest at all is to jump in with some
} obtuse comment on copyrights, then immediately makes himself the focal point
} of controversy by insulting people taking extracts out of context and
} otherwise stirring up the emotions of people who normally discuss all
} matters in a calm and civilized manner.

Agreed.  And because I am often too busy to read every word in OTR
(sorry) I often get called into the fray after substantial damage has
been done, and from that perspective I have little choice than to post
a call-to-sanity and to re-focus the group (if possible).  

However, to be as fair as I can be, Marty has contributed other OTR
material of value too.  In otherwords, I agree that he goes overboard,
but I disagree that he contributes nothing else of value.

}         Let me suggest that that instead of the moderator jumping on all the
} members of this group, again, and again, that the moderator take the direct
} course of action and exclude Marty Tabnik from this digest.  This one person
} is single-handedly the cause of every screaming match which has erupted
} over copyright, and again, 

I take great exception to the phrase 'jumping on the group ... again
and again".  I very seldom post to this forum.  When I do post, I dont
'jump on' (to use your term) anyone who is not directly involved with
the problem I am trying to mitigate.   However when there has been a
long thread of accusations and insults, it is hard to tell exactly who
deserves what anymore.  

That is the magic of the flame war.  Once started, the doo-doo gets
spread far and wide and it begins to be difficult to determine who's
to bless and who's to blame.

}         Admonisitions to carry over these discussions by private E-mail do
} not work, because he does not respond to private E-mail on a personal basis.

Email does not work because it is private.  Flame warriors need the
public exposure.  They thrive on the fight, not on convincing someone
to change his ways.  

} I suggest again, that rather than lecture the entirety of this forum on our
} responsibilities as civilized human beings, that the moderator exclude
} Marty Tabnik from this group.

Believe me have considered this action many times, but since I
*hate* to exclude, and prefer to persuade, I have not taken this
action yet.  

However, Lou Genco and I are in agreement that if the baiting
continues, there will be actions taken.   We have a very nice group
here and I will be damned if I will sit by and let this single issue
destroy us from within.  

So the final portion of the 'lecture' is [removed]

If Marty (or someone else) posts inflammatory stuff here, *DONT
REPLY*!!!  If you do reply and it becomes clear that this is not a
quest for the truth, but a flame-baiting crusade, *STOP REPLYING
IMMEDIATELY*.   I know it is difficult, a good flame artist makes it
very hard to resist, but resist you must.

If such a war starts again, I will remove the responsible parties from
the list without any further 'lecture'.  And I cannot promise that the
exclusions will be limited to ONLY the original instigator, since it
is often unclear who that was.  

Please, people, let us not give in to flame and blame.  If you
participate in a flame war, you are only slightly less guilty than the
person who started the flame war.  I may comment on it from an
administrative point of view, but you will NEVER catch me getting
involved in the flame war itself.  I have learned that from many
years on the net.  The only (and I mean only) way to win a flame war
is not to play.

I would appreciate you NOT replying to this article in the digest.
Please reply to me, or to me and Lou personally.  

God bless you all

William Pfeiffer
List Owner/Administrator:  OTR Digest
wdp@[removed]  *  wdp@[removed] * airwaves@[removed]
Web: [removed]~[removed]

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 19:45:55 -0500 (EST)
From: Jim Widner <jwidner@[removed]>
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Two questions
Message-Id: <[removed]@[removed]>

Two questions recently came to me via my web page.  I don't
really have the answers, so I thought I'd post them here:

1) What is Brace Beemer's birth date?

2) Someone asked me if there was a Christmas story on the
Baby Snooks radio programs about the Littlest Angel. He said
he remembers it as a yearly event.  Any details would be helpful.

Thanks.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Jim Widner                      INTERNET: jwidner@[removed]
Dayton, OH                      WWW: [removed]
COMPUSERVE: 74566,3041          AOL: JimWidner  
                          

                                                 

------------------------------

Date: 01 Feb 96 17:44:09 EST
From: Joel  Senter <[removed]@[removed]>
To: Marty Tabnik <[removed]@[removed]>
Cc: OTR Digest <otr@[removed]>
Subject: Re: Lectures
Message-ID: <[removed]@[removed]>

Hi, Marty, thanks for the personal E-mail; you provided me with my very
first "flame" - nice to meet you in person.  Although your postings
certainly add spice to the OTR Digest, what on earth made you think I was
talking about you with my "lecture - tuition" comments??   Best Regards,
Joel    

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 20:43:57 -0500 (EST)
From: Randy Minnehan <rminneha@[removed]>
To: otr@[removed]
Subject: RE: Our dear friend Marty Tabnik
Message-ID: <[removed]@acme>

Hi [removed]

   I could not agree more with Bob Jenning's posting in the last digest. I
agree that this group would be much better off without the likes of
Marty's hateful attacks and negative postings.  Marty enjoys playing his
bitter little game, and I second the motion that the moderator of our
group exclude Marty Tabnik's further involvement with us.  This digest
will be a friendlier place for it.

   Maybe Marty wil get the hint (finally)... just go away and leave us
alone! If he doesn't get the hint that he's not wanted here, yes, he
should be kicked off.  Do we need to vote on it?  Score: Good guys:2,
Marty: a big zero.

   A good disagreement is one thing, but putting up with the likes of
Marty is quite another!

--------------------------------------------------
|Randy Minnehan - rminneha@[removed]|
--------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:          Thu, 1 Feb 1996 21:24:00 EDT
From: "John S. Vamossy" <VAMOSSY_J@[removed]>
To: otr@[removed]
Subject:       "Radio Charlie" [removed]
Message-ID: <4A26B4021EC@[removed]>

   I recently had the pleasure of listening to a series of tapes 
entitled "The Home Front", which, among other things, featured 
numerous segments of WWII era radio broadcasts.
   One of the items featured was a snippet of a song by someone the 
narrator identified by the nickname "Radio Charlie". According to the 
program, this individual was featured in German shortwave broadcasts 
singing axis propaganda songs in English in the big band style.
   I hope I am not too far off topic here, but having a degree in 
Communication, I am interested in both old time radio and the ways 
electronic media such as radio have been used for propaganda 
purposes. Because of this, I was wondering whether any of you kind 
folks out there would have any additional information on Radio Charlie 
or could direct me to a source where more detailed information could 
be located. In addition, does anyone out there know whether any of 
Radio Charlie's recordings are available somewhere? If so, I would be 
very interested in obtaining some of these.
   I will be very grateful for any information which you might 
be able to provide. I will monitor the OTR newsgroup for replies, or, 
if you wish, feel free to E-mail me directly.

   Thanks!
   
   -John





**********************************************************************
John S. Vamossy           "I can't help it. I was BORN in Flint!"
jvamossy@[removed]     
*********************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 01 Feb 96 21:51:38 
From: [removed]@[removed]
To: otr@[removed]
Subject: Les Paul
Message-ID: <[removed]@[removed]>

In response to a request by Kathy O'Connell about the Les Paul radio show tapes
she
found.  I've been a fan of Les Paul for many years and have collected all of
his recordings
with and without Mary Ford.  He appeared often on radio, some times with Bing
Crosby
and the Andrew Sisters and with Mary Ford.  Perhaps the programs you are
refering to are
the same ones mentioned in a very interesting book by Mary Alice Shaughnessy,
'Les Paul:
An American Original.' (William Morrow and Company, 1993).  Her description is
as
follows:
"The couple's (Les Paul and Mary Ford) personal and professional lives became
even more
intertwined when they began making radio shows together for NBC, 'The Les Paul
Show
with Mary Ford.'  The fifteen-minute radio program, prerecorded on
transcription disks
and broadcast every Friday night on LOs Angeles's KFI, was packed with music and
sketches created by Les and mary.  The couple's amiable on-air chats sometimes
included
friends who just happened to drop by, like radio veteran Zeke Manners, who
played Ed
McMahon to Les's Johnny Carson.'
There is much more in the book and it should be available at Barnes and Nobel,
since it
was a recent publication. 
Hope this is of interest to you and other collectors of Les Paul on radio.


--Al Baggetta

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 22:28:06 -0500
From: DavidLHsl@[removed]
To: otr@[removed]
Subject: 2 questions
Message-ID: <960201222805_309831838@[removed]>

  I've been listening to Lum and Abner (the 15 minute episodes) on my way to
and from work lately, and I'm somewhat confused as to the age of Cedric
Weehunt.  When I first heard him, I estimated his age to be around 50.
 However, Lum and Abner started referring to him as young and as a boy
(relative to their own age, perhaps?).  Today, I listened to a hilarious
episode where Abner is reading a children's story about a cute bunny named
Pinky Winky, and Lum chastises them on how shameful it was that "two grow'd
men" could be interested in a kiddie book.  Any ideas on the age of this
character?
  My second question could be called "Which came first: the chicken or the
egg?"  Specifically, was the cartoon character Foghorn Leghorn the
inspiration of the Allen's Alley favorite Senator Claghorn, or vice versa?
  Just wondering.
David Hassell
"I grannies, Abner, I believe that's our ring." (Lum)

------------------------------

Date: 02 Feb 1996 04:08:15 GMT
From: [removed]@[removed] (Ron B. Hare)
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Microwaves
Message-Id: <[removed]@[removed]>

So this isn't my last post after all.
Max, you've got to use the LOW setting on your microwave.
About 3 to 4 minutes works fine.

Ron
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Transmitted via LiveWire, a Virtual Valley service. Modem: [removed]
(FirstClass, VT-100)  Voice: [removed]; E-mail: online@[removed]

------------------------------
Date: Fri,  2 Feb 1996 04:39:00 GMT
From: [removed]@[removed] (Marty Tabnik)
To: otr@[removed]
Subject:  les paul
Message-Id: <96020122184434000@[removed]>

OC> From: "Kathy O'Connell" <oconnell@[removed]>
OC> Message-Id: <[removed]@[removed]>

OC> One of the treasures I picked up at the Friends of Old Time
OC> Radio Convention in Newark last October was a cassette of
OC> "The Les Paul Show." This is basically Les Paul & Mary Ford
OC> singing & playing in their home studio (as far as I can tell).
OC> Could someone fill me on about this series? When did it run?
OC> Any other background?

There's a descriptive booklet in the LES PAUL CBS boxed set.
It has a LOT of details (too many to quote/paraphase here)
about the radio program and about Les's historic place in
radio and in music.  It includes [OTR fans take note] not
only some excerpts from his radio show but also some
classic commercials including
        "When the value goes up, up, up
        And the prices go down, down, down"
                -- Robert Hall ad

        "My beer is Rheingold
        The dry beer" -- [to the Estudiantina Waltz]

Decades later, Les Paul's work is STILL amazing.
(And he did it with phonodiscs *NOT* mag tape!)
---
 * SLMR [removed] * Who is the Internet OTR moderator?  The Shadow [removed]

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 10:24:06 -0500 (EST)
From: passage@[removed] (Frank Passage)
To: otr@[removed]
Subject: More Bradbury shows
Message-Id: <[removed]@[removed]>

Hi All,
 
 
Meade Frierson <afab@[removed]> sent me some additions to my Bradbury
list.  Here they are (with my editing):
 
> The CBC SF can be correctly called Studio 71 and presented Fahrenheit 451 
> in 1971.  The BBC Third Program or BBC-3 presented Leviathon '99 first 
> on 5-3-1968.  WORLD SECURITY WORKSHOP performed The Meadow in 1947. NBC 
> SHORT STORY broadcast The Rocket on 1-4-1952.  Theatre 10:30 also produces 
> The Pedestrian (date unknown).
 
> Just came across a 1952 publication approved by Ray Bradbury listing his 
> presentations up to then and learned some new info:
 
> 2 more SUSPENSE - Summer Night - 7/15/1948
>                   The Crowd - 9/21/1950
 
> ABC's Molle Mystery Theatre - Killer, Come Back to Me -??/1950
 
> 3 more STORIES BY OLMSTED:
>         The Night - 1947 (One timeless spring also in 1947)
>         Powerhouse - 1948
>         The Miracle of Jamie - 1948
 
Thanks Meade!
 
Also, I got a couple of request where to get the 4 Theater 10:30 shows.
I got mine from Steve Kelez's Radio Showcase (sorry it's to late to take
advantage of his Internet Cassette sale).

 
Frank

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 12:15:25 -0500
From: alabok@[removed] (Bob Jennings)
To: otr@[removed]
Message-Id: <[removed]@[removed]>

Hello Everybody,
        A few issues back someone (can't recall exactly who) made a
reference to an issue of the Journal of Popular Culture devoted to old time
radio and comments they might have made about Amos & Andy.
        I have that very issue before me right now.  The exact issue is Fall
1979 Vol 12 #2, an entire thick issue devoted to a look at classic radio.
If you can get your hands on this publication at a used book store you
should snatch it up right away.  Many libraries also carry the Journal of
Popular Culture, which is produced by the Popular Culture division of
Bowling Green State University.
        The article on Amos & Andy is written by Arnold Shankman and covers
extensively the reaction of the Negro community in the early days of the
Amos & Andy program.  Interestingly enough, many Negro listerns were quite
happy and flattered when A&A initially hit the airwaves, and for many years
many people, both black and white, were unaware that the creators and actors
were two white men.
        Reaction against the program was spearheaded by Robert Vann of
Pittsburg, publishers of the Pittsburgh Courier, a prominent black
newspaper, and apparently his primary goal was to gain lots of new readers
with an emotional issue.  He was successful, but not entirely so, since
readers (and the writer of this article) pointed out that the Courier itself
was running many offensive sterotyped cartoons of "darkies" and "coons"
within their own pages while the editorials hammered at the sterotyping of
the Amos & Andy program.
        Not everybody jumped on the anti-A&A band wagon, and a number of
other black papers correctly noted that Vann was using the issue primarily
as a publicity/circulation gimick without seeming to really care about the
program or its long term effects.
        Many Negro commentators noted that A&A was the ONLY program on radio
with black primary actors, and some people objected because the sterotyping
of Andy as the ignorant business blunderer might affect the changes of other
Negro business people to achieve credit with white banks.
        All of this was initially a shock to Gosdan and Correll who had
worked closely with black community leaders in Chicago and gave benefits for
the annual picnic.  It is also interesting to me, that later in their career
when the program began to use other actors and the format changed to half
hour shows instead of the fifteen minute comedy-soap opera they had started
with, that virtually all the other cast members except Gosdan and Correll
were black.  Over the years they continued to perform fund raising and
chairty work for the Negro community.
        I'm not going to paraphrase all the article, it's miticuleously
researched and very interesting, well worth looking up in any library.
        A point that cannot be overstated enough in my opinion is that when
A&A came on the air the viewpoint of most white Americans to the Negro
community was one of almost total ignorance and bigottery.  Black people
were virtully invisible to most whites, segregated, ghettoized and kept away
from sight or contact for the overwhelming majority of whites.          Amos
& Andy came on the air, and despite the comedy sterotypes used to generate
humor, what the program did was show that Negro people were human beings,
they had thoughts, dreams, aspirations, fears and worries just like
everybody else in the world.  This was smething of a revelation for the
times, and because they continued to show the human side of blacks as well
as the humorous, A&A in my opinion was a pioneering ground breaker when it
came to breaking down barriers between races which previous to this had had
as little to do with each other as possible.  It's hard to maintain harsh
sterotypes when humorous, likable people visit your home every day via the
radio waves.  It was a firm step in the right direction, whatever other
comments might be made about it.
        This issue also contains a superlative article by J. Fred MacDonald
(who wrote a great book on the history and development of otradio) on the
Treasury Star Parade, a propaganda series produced by the US Government.
There are many other really good articles in the issue (and to be fair, some
bad ones as well).  It's worth taking a look at this in your local library.

        ---Bob Jennings

------------------------------

    


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---- 
End of [removed] Digest V96 Issue #44

