Subject: [removed] Digest V2004 #24
From: <[removed]@[removed]>
Date: 1/16/2004 3:13 PM

To: <[removed]@[removed];

    ------------------------------

                                The Old-Time Radio Digest!
                                  Volume 2004 : Issue 24
                             A Part of the [removed]!
                                     ISSN: 1533-9289

                                     Today's Topics:

      Heart of Darkness and Park Plaza Hot  [ "Martin Grams, Jr." <mmargrajr@hotm ]
      Mp3's once again                      [ Al Girard <24agirard24@[removed] ]
      Re: [removed] Lovecraft                     [ StevenL751@[removed] ]
      Gangbusters Clues                     [ "Martin Grams, Jr." <mmargrajr@hotm ]
      1/17 births/deaths                    [ Ron Sayles <bogusotr@[removed]; ]
      Nostalgia Ain't What It Used to Be    [ "Stephen A Kallis, Jr." <skallisjr@ ]
      Uta Hagen                             [ Ron Sayles <bogusotr@[removed]; ]
      OTR pets/better [removed]               [ "Katja and Tom" <kattom@[removed] ]
      By Proxy                              [ "Martin Grams, Jr." <mmargrajr@hotm ]
      H. P. Lovecraft                       [ "Kurt E. Yount" <blsmass@[removed]; ]
      Bad source for OTR info               [ "Martin Grams, Jr." <mmargrajr@hotm ]
      Don't throw the Baby out with the Ba  [ "Bill Scherer" <bspro@[removed]; ]

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 14:27:58 -0500
    From: "Martin Grams, Jr." <mmargrajr@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Heart of Darkness and Park Plaza Hotel

    I hate coming in on these things late but I was away for a few days.

    Mike mentioned:
    I had previously listen to Heart of
    Darkness on OTR THIS IS MY BEST and the MERCURY THEATER, I must say this
    version on the BBC really captures the spirit and atmosphere of the novel. I
    highly recommend it.

    Trivia: The reason Orson Welles did Conrad's "The Heart of Darkness" on
    radio was because it was one of his favorite stories.  When Welles went to
    California circa 1940, he signed with RKO Studios to film his first motion
    picture.  Welles even went to work on a screen version of "The Heart of
    Darkness" with the intention of telling the story from the first-person
    camera technique, which would have been used for much of Welles' point of
    view in the film.  There was supposed to be spectalura tropical sets, a cast
    of thousands of extras (yeah, Welles was thinking BIG), and even talk that
    Tallulah Bankhead would star.  The estimated budget was more than one
    million dollars which set off bells and whistles at RKO, and it was
    eventually decided that the film would be postponed temporarily until Welles
    got a more traditional picture under his belt.  Course, Welles eventually
    suited to doing a biographical drama about William Randolph Hearst as his
    premiere project which later became known (and still is) considered the
    greatest film ever made.

    I do believe, incidentally, that "The Heart of Darkness" was filmed, a
    Coppola production called APOCALYPSE NOW decades later.

    As for the recent posting about the Park Plaza hotel . . . the reason no one
    was able to figure out where the hotel was located was because (if I recall
    accurately), the name of the band leader and his orchestra AND the name of
    the hotel was purely fictitious.  CBS, like all major broadcasting stations,
    had what was known as a continuity department and all scripts subject for
    broadcast had to meet with that department's standards ([removed] self-inflicted
    censorship, partly for legal reasons and moral values).  They had objected
    to the name of the hotel (can't recall off the top of my head what was the
    original name featured in early drafts) as well as the name "President of
    the United States" so those were changed simply to "Park Plaza Hotel" and
    "Secretary of the Interior."  Course, this meant nothing to listeners who
    obviously heard the broadcast and questioned the validity of the broadcast's
    hidden [removed]

    Martin Grams, Jr.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 14:48:07 -0500
    From: Al Girard <24agirard24@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Mp3's once again

>     Not all of us prefer the MP3 format,
>     in fact, some of us down right loathe it, due to the frequent poor quality
>     that is offered.

    It's not mp3 that's the problem - it's the mis-use of the technology that's the
    problem.  Done correctly, mp3 encodes can be excellent.  However, there are
    too many people encoding shows without learning first how to encode properly.
    They then post their shows to Usenet, the shows are downloaded by people who
    are only out to make a buck and those terrible encodes are then sold on eBay.

    Al Girard

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 14:50:46 -0500
    From: StevenL751@[removed]
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Re: [removed] Lovecraft

    In a message dated 1/16/2004 2:28:36 PM Eastern Standard Time,
    [removed]@[removed] writes:

>     To best of my knowledge, the only [removed] Lovecraft adaptations are

    <snip>

>     "At the Mountains of Madness"  (ATLANTIC RADIO THEATER - Modern Dramatization)
>     "Shadow over Innsmouth"          (ATLANTIC RADIO THEATER - Modern Dramatization)

    The last two adaptations on your list were actually produced by the ATLANTA
    RADIO THEATRE COMPANY, who also did adaptations of these Lovecraft tales:

    The Dunwich Horror
    The Rats in the Walls

    You can get more information about Atlanta and all their fine work at their
    website:  [removed]

    Steve Lewis

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 15:15:40 -0500
    From: "Martin Grams, Jr." <mmargrajr@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Gangbusters Clues

    Mark Stratton wrote recently about GANGBUSTERS:

>     I heard an episode where a couple of kids spotted somebody they had
>     heard about on Gangbusters, but really wondered how often the descriptions
>     actually helped the authorities.

    The descriptions given toward the end of each GANGBUSTERS broadcast was
    often termed as the "clues."  The mechanics of querying regarding the clues
    were extremely detailed and outlined.  Phillip H. Lord's main sources were
    FBI Identification orders and general news intelligence about crime and
    criminals.  Leads came to Lord's office principally in the form of state
    police bulletins which were published and mailed widely throughout the
    country.  Lord's office was on a number of such mailing lists.  Certain
    police departments which were extremely familiar with Lord, sent them flyers
    of particularly "Wanted Criminals."  Also, the majority of the
    correspondence that left Lord's office usually closed with some mention that
    they were always at service for the broadcasting of clues to people they
    were seeking.

    The clues were usually put together at the last minute, cleared legally the
    day before the show.  The actual text of the clues were written in the
    office more or less after a formula.  However, the lawyers frequently wanted
    a word changed for reasons of their own.  In order not to be caught short in
    case some criminal proposed for the program clue was captured, the final
    script always featured an alternate program clue.  If not needed this was
    thrown away an hour or two before broadcast.  In March of 1951, about
    fifteen years after the show had began broadcasting on radio, Lord remarked
    in an interview that they never had to use the alternate clue.  Amazing.

    The people hired by Lord to handle the program's production always had a
    stack of "clues" ready to be used.  Many of them, however, didn't meet the
    standards of broadcasting so they were never used.  Ideally, a 5 foot 6 inch
    man with brown hair and brown eyes would never be described on the show.
    Now, if that same man had scars, tattoos, amputations, etc., then the
    "wanted" man (or woman) would definately qualify.  The types of clues they
    choosed had to be one of the four following:  Wanted for murder (or fleeing
    to avoid prosecution - murder), Escape (especially when criminal considered
    dangerous type or if serving long prison term for a major crime), Armed
    Robbery (or fleeing to avoid prosecution for this charge) or Wanted for
    Shooting with Intent to Kill.
    A criminal wanted for rape or sexual assault was considered taboo for
    description.

    Lord's office also received numerous telegrams and wires and phonecalls and
    letters from listeners and every lead was forwarded to the proper
    department.  A staff member in Lord's office was usually on call to forward
    information knowing that an hour's delay could mean the escape of a criminal
    at large.

    As for the success, by the end of the third year (1939) 110 criminals were
    apprehended as a result of the clues.  By 1943, that total had risen to 286.
      By 1946, the total rose to 377.  The show ran till 1957 so you can see how
    much good the program did.

    Lawrence Devol, bank robber, murderer and member of the Alvin Karpis-Ma
    Barker gang, escaped from the Minnesota Asylum for the Criminally Insane and
    was described on the June 17, 1938 broadcast of GANGBUSTERS.  A man named
    James O'Neil recognized Devol at a table in his tavern and called the
    police.  In the ensuing gun battle, Devol and the police officer were
    killed.

    Edward (Willie) Bentz, who admitted robbing more than a hundred banks, heard
    himself described in a clue broadcast February 12, 1936, became frightened
    and changed his rooming house.  By moving, he put police on his trail and
    was captured.

    Hoffman and Penning, bandits who robbed the Big Rapids, Michigan Savings
    bank were captured by police in Charlotte, North Carolina as the result of a
    clue broadcast August 12, 1936.

    Claude Beaver, Oklahoma fugitive described May 20, 1936, was captured the
    day after.

    Martin Grams, Jr.
    Material above reprinted from rough draft of a book about GANGBUSTERS due
    for publication in June, and set to premiere at the REPS Old Time Radio
    convention in late June.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 15:16:00 -0500
    From: Ron Sayles <bogusotr@[removed];
    To: Olde Tyme Radio List <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  1/17 births/deaths

    January 17th births

    01-17-1875 - Minetta Ellen - Cleveland, OH - d. 7-2-1965
    actress: Francis 'Fanny" Barbour "One Man"s Family"
    01-17-1884 - Noah Beery, Sr. - Kansas City, MO - d. 4-1-1946
    actor: "Campbell"s Playhouse"; "Lux Radio Theatre"
    01-17-1891 - Marjorie Gateson - Brooklyn, NY - d. 4-17-1977
    actress: "Lux Radio Theatre"
    01-17-1903 - Warren Hull - Gasport, NY - d. 9-14-1974
    actor: Jack Hamilton "Gibson Family"
    01-17-1904 - Knox Manning - Worcester, MA - d. 8-26-1980
    announcer: "Advs. of Sherlock Holmes"; "Headlines on Parade"
    01-17-1919 - Dallas Townsend - NYC - d. 6-1-1995
    newscaster: "CBS World News Roundup"; "World Tonight"
    01-17-1921 - Herb Ellis - Cleveland, OH
    actor: Archie Goodwin "Advs. of Nero Wolfe"
    01-17-1922 - Betty White - Oak Park, IL (R:  Beverly Hills, CA)
    hostess: "Betty White on Animals"
    01-17-1927 - Eartha Kitt - North, SC
    singer: "Here"s to Veterans"
    01-17-1930 - Dick Contino - Fresno, CA
    accordionist: "Horace Heidt Youth Opportunity Hour"
    01-17-1941 - Clive Elvyn Rice (Clyde Campbell) - Haslemere, Surrey, England
    actor: Bobby Benson "Bobby Benson and the B-Bar-B Riders"

    January 17th deaths

    03-06-1916 - Rochelle Hudson - Oklahoma City, OK - d. 1-17-1972
    actress: "Hollywood Hotel"
    09-26-1920 - Barbara Britton - Long Beach, CA - d. 1-17-1980
    actress: Pamela North "Mr. and Mrs. North"; "Screen Guild Theatre"

    Ron Sayles
    Milwaukee, Wisconsin

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 15:19:19 -0500
    From: "Stephen A Kallis, Jr." <skallisjr@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Nostalgia Ain't What It Used to Be

    Derek Tague observes,

>     On the topic of nostalgia vs. history: some post-ers here want to
>     delineate between the OTR fans who heard all these great shows when they
>     were fresh and "live" and the latter-day adherents like myself. Please
>     keep in mind that when it comes to great entertainment, nostalgia can
>     take on a new life at any age.

    Speaking as a geezerly sort who listened to the shows "live," the
    nostalgia I feel was for more than just the shows, but also the
    environment they were embedded in.  Although a few series recordings
    exist with recorded offers of radio premiums, there is *no* way that a
    younger listener can recall nostalgically the ritual of eating whatever
    cereal one had to for a specific premium and then carefully Scotch taping
    the coins to the boxtop and sending it off.  I nearly chipped my teeth
    eating the Kix of the era to get a Kix Atomic Bomb Ring (aka the Lone
    Ranger Atom Bomb Ring), and the eagerness I experienced attempting to
    view the "splitting atoms" when it arrived.  The whole ritual of sending
    for premiums is lost, alas.

    About 30 years ago, I got recordings of virtually the entire season of a
    1940 Jack Armstrong_ adventure: the Sulu Sea one with the offering of the
    Dragon's Eye Ring (made with a "green tenite stone") based on the ring in
    the story.  The buildup was masterful, and by the time the ring offer was
    introduced, I wanted one.  Of course, that was old, conditioned reflexes
    kicking in.  And in the 1970s, getting one was more than sending in a
    Wheaties boxtop and a coin.  (I have a really beautiful ring now, but at
    uncomfortable cost.)

    That level of nostalgia cannot be evoked by the younger listeners.
    More's the pity.

    Stephen A. Kallis, Jr.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 15:28:15 -0500
    From: Ron Sayles <bogusotr@[removed];
    To: Olde Tyme Radio List <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Uta Hagen

    I see the Uta Hagen just died at the age of 84. Does anyone know if she did
    any radio?

    Ron Sayles
    Milwaukee, Wisconsin

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 15:28:28 -0500
    From: "Katja and Tom" <kattom@[removed];
    To: "OTR Digest" <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  OTR pets/better [removed]

    Hi:

    Our cat isn't named after an OTR [removed]'s named after an actual
    radio.

    Fada.

    Tom Zotti
    Wolfeboro, NH

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 15:29:21 -0500
    From: "Martin Grams, Jr." <mmargrajr@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  By Proxy

    Mark Statton asked about GANGBUSTERS:

>     Also, the phrase "by proxy" is used quite a bit to introduce a law
>     enforcement official who was relaying the story.  What did they mean by
>     that?

    By proxy meant the law enforcement official was not really the person you
    heard on the air.  A radio actor like Santos Ortega, Jack Grimes or someone
    else was actually doing the voice of the law officer.  The program
    originated from New York which handicapped some law officers living on the
    Western half of the US.
    Examples:
    3/13/48  "The Case of Robert Lee Robertson" featured Det. Lt. John Sinclair
    of the St. Louis, Mo. Police Department by proxy.  Sinclair had received a
    copy of the script the day before broadcast, approved of the hosting
    comments, and Jack Grimes played the host, Det. Lt. John Sinclair.
    Listeners only believed what they heard but by mentioning that Sinclair
    appeared "by proxy" kept the program honest.
    3/20/48  "The Case of the Broadway Bandits"  did feature John J. Sullivan,
    Former Chief of Detectives and Deputy Police Commissioner of the City of New
    York.  And that broadcast really did feature the real John J. Sullivan
    because he was from 84 Eighty-Sixth Street in Brooklyn and that was an easy
    trip to make to the studios.
    3/27/48  "The Case of Phillip and William Heincy" featured (by proxy) Alfred
    W. Kahl, Commissioner of Iowa Department of Public Safety because Kahl was
    from Des Moines, Iowa.
    Hope this helps explain the purpose of "by proxy" that is mentioned in the
    GANGBUSTERS recordings.
    Martin Grams, Jr.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 16:48:24 -0500
    From: "Kurt E. Yount" <blsmass@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  H. P. Lovecraft

    I think one reason Lovecraft didn't have more stories done on radio is
    that in a sense a lot of his stories were the same, at least the Chtulu
    (spelling) mythos. He wasn't like say Bradbury whose stories ranged
    widely in subject matter and tone. I may be biased here, since I never
    really got into much Lovecraft, but the sameness of the material may have
    caused not as much of it to be done on radio as other authors. The rats
    in the walls is a bit different, but in a sense it still involves
    ancestors, one of Lovecraft's major concerns. As I say, I do have a
    definite bias so you have to make allowances for that. Kurt

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 17:12:03 -0500
    From: "Martin Grams, Jr." <mmargrajr@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Bad source for OTR info

    Zongo mentioned:

>     With all this Jerry bashing going on,  I just had to chime in.  HIs logs are
>     amazing.  They have helped my collecting of otr more than any other single
>     reference.  His site is wonderful.

    First off, I have never had any dealings with Jerry in years and when I did,
    I never had a problem with his recordings though it did take six months to
    send a MURDER AT MIDNIGHT tape and i've never ordered since.  Jerry is a
    very busy man and as anyone who has a web-site and offers recordings can
    tell you, processing an order is not an over-night project.  But like the
    old saying, if you do not like the service, go visit another company.  (See?
      Favortism and Support in the same posting.)

    Now I REALLY don't want to get in on this discussion and I'm not going to
    make any further postings or e-mails about the matter other this this one,
    but I have to state an opinion that is DEFINATELY shared by almost every
    major researcher/scholar/author of Old Time Radio.  I am only stating a fact
    because Zongo (?) made a reference to having amazing logs.
    A large majority of those broadcast logs on Jerry's site is VERY inaccurate.
      Do not, and I repeat, DO NOT use the information on Jerry's site as a
    definitive source of information.

    For years researchers have warned me (I already know, thank you) not to use
    Jerry's site as any source of reliable information when it comes to dates
    and titles.  For serious researchers, there are other sources and other
    web-sites that list logs far for accurate.  Lou Genco's and Terry Salomson's
    are a couple.  Remember that the internet allows anyone to post anything up
    on the internet, with very little regard toward cross-referencing.  Here are
    two examples I know of just browseing the site a few minutes ago.
    Jerry's HAVE GUN WILL TRAVEL log has the following errors:

    The episode entitled "Bitter Vengeance" should be 12/6/59, not 11/29/59.
    The January 11, 1959 broadcast Jerry lists as "British Courage" should be
    titled "The Englishman."
    8/30/59 "Love Birds" should be "Love-Bird."
    10/18/59  "Brother Lost" should be "Anything I Want."
    10/4/59   "The Contessa" is not the title.  It should be "Contessa Marie
    Desmoulins"
    11/8/59  "Hired Gun" should be "Brother Lost."
    Jerry lists "Landfall" on 11/15/59 and "Fair Fugitive" for 11/22/59. He has
    the dates switched.
    12/20/59 "Ranch Carnival" should be "Ranse Carnival" cause a character in
    that episode is named Ranse.
    12/6/59  "Bitter Vengeance" is not the title.  it should be "Bitter
    Vengeance."
    12/27/59  "The Marriage" is not the title.  It should be "About Face."
    Jerry lists "Lucky Penny" for 5/22/60 and "Dusty" for 5/29/60.  He has the
    dates switched.
    1/31/60  "Bad Bert" should be titled "The Boss."
    2/7/60  "The Boss" should be "Bring Him back Alive."
    2/14/60  "Bring Him Back Alive" should be "The Dollhouse in Diamond Springs"
    2/28/60  "The Dollhouse in Diamonds Springs" should be "Bad Bert"
    7/24/60  "Delta Queen" is not the title.  it should be "Way for the Delta
    Queen"
    8/7/60 and 8/14/60 was a two-part story entitled "Viva" and "Extended Viva",
    not "Father O'Toole's Organ"
    Jerry needs to switch the titles for 10/2/60 and 10/9/60, "Sam Crow" and
    "Talika"

    In the case of INNER SANCTUM MYSTERIES, he lists the wrong title for the
    premiere episode.  It shouldn't be "Death for Sale," it should be "The
    Amazing Death of Mrs. Putnam."
    Jerry says he has two copies "The Black Seagull" broadcast 2/7/43 and
    3/7/43.  That drama was never broadcast twice.  It was only broadcast 3/7/43
    and Jerry is offering the same recording twice - beware people who buy both
    recordings thinking one recording will differ from the other!
    2/18/41  "The Strangled Snake" should be "The Case of the Strangled Snake."
    7/29/44 and 8/5/44 "The Mad House" was a two-part thriller but the real
    title is "Madhouse Murders."
    10/23/45 should not be "The Man Who Couldn't Die."  It should be "Death for
    Sale."

    And this is the part that clued me in on the source.  Jerry lists the
    broadcast of 2/25/41 being "[removed] BloodH Toupe".  This is not the correct
    title.  The correct title is "The Case of the Blood Type."  During the
    seventies, Ray Stanich created what was the first episode guide for Inner
    Sanctum and used an old fashioned type writer to type out his logs.
    Therefore, it's sometimes hard to see what is typed.  Ray was the only
    person who also created abbreviations when typing out the titles of dramas
    so he would often type TCOT in place of "The Case of the" and sometimes on
    an old typewriter a C looks like an O.  Jerry's source for the Inner Sanctum
    log was apparently from Ray Stanich's (which incidentally is inaccurate by
    many standards).

    This is just an example of mistakes I caught while browsing two of Jerry's
    logs and these are mistakes I caught without using any reference guide
    (imagine the number of errors if I used a refernce guide).  Many of his logs
    list the wrong titles, the wrong dates, the wrong guest stars and in some
    cases, one out of every three titles is inaccurate!  I just listed a sample
    of errors I saw within minutes, but believe me there are TONS of errors so
    if anyone uses his site as a source of information, please keep an open mind
    that the information is not accurate.  There are many OTR authors and
    researchers who have stated this publicly so I know I am not the only one.

    (Incidentally, I noticed the YOURS TRULY, JOHNNY DOLLAR log has been revised
    and surprisingly the information is the same (though less detailed) as Terry
    Salomonson's broadcast log which Terry researched directly from original
    [removed] I didn't see Terry's name acknowledged?)

    Martin

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 17:12:29 -0500
    From: "Bill Scherer" <bspro@[removed];
    To: ""old-time radio digest">" <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Don't throw the Baby out with the Bath water

    Hey all,
    I'm just going to pop in to say that just because you've gotten low quality
    MP3's does not make the format bad.
    I have gotten poor quality cassettes and reels in my collecting days too but
    that's not the fault of the format, but rather the fault of the person making
    the dubs.
    You are not going to ever get superb quality on a disk that holds 100 shows.
    You could, however, get good quality on a disk that holds 10 to 20 shows.
    It's all about the bit rate and about the original quality of the show in the
    first place.  Oh yes and the guy making the MP3.
    Once again don't blame the format for the crappy quality.
    Bill

    --------------------------------
    End of [removed] Digest V2004 Issue #24
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