Subject: [removed] Digest V2003 #419
From: <[removed]@[removed]>
Date: 11/20/2003 6:50 PM

To: <[removed]@[removed];

    ------------------------------

                                The Old-Time Radio Digest!
                                  Volume 2003 : Issue 419
                             A Part of the [removed]!
                                     ISSN: 1533-9289

                                     Today's Topics:

      Daws Butler on Art Carney             [ Kermyt Anderson <kermyta@[removed]; ]
      Dragnet episode--phrenologist         [ Mahlon Wagner <mwagner2@[removed] ]
      videotape                             [ Kermyt Anderson <kermyta@[removed]; ]
      Re: Radio's Greatest Year             [ Elizabeth McLeod <lizmcl@[removed] ]
      radio's greatest year--Anschluss      [ chris chandler <chrischandler84@yah ]
      Dick Curless on AFKN:                 [ "Bob & Carol Taylor" <qth4@comcast. ]
      Question of dealers                   [ vigor16@[removed] ]
      Fran Allison                          [ "RBB" <oldradio@[removed]; ]
      Imagination Theatre in Los Angeles &  [ lawrence albert <albertlarry@yahoo. ]
      11-21 births/deaths                   [ Ron Sayles <bogusotr@[removed]; ]
      Arc Kansas/ Arkansaw                  [ Ed Kindred <kindred@[removed]; ]
      Drama Hour in Los Angeles             [ "B. J. Watkins" <kinseyfan@hotmail. ]
      Re: Two on a Clue                     [ Jim Widner <widnerj@[removed]; ]
      "Watching" OTR and color              [ Timothy Clough <timothy@[removed]; ]

    ------------------------------

    Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 10:47:12 -0500
    From: Kermyt Anderson <kermyta@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Daws Butler on Art Carney

    Ben Ohmart pointed out that Daws Butler's
    characterization of Barney Rubble was not a
    straightforward impersonation of Art Carney. I'm
    surprised nobody has yet mentioned the "The
    Honeyearthers" sketch from the Stan Freberg show. I
    haven't listened to this one in a while, and I think
    the voices are getting confused in my memory--did Daws
    do both Norton *and* Cramdon in this sketch? Surely
    Stan did one of them, but I can't recall which. June
    Foray did Alice, of course.

    A while back there was a discussion on writing fan
    letters to surviving OTR performers. There are four
    performers I'd like to get ahold of--three of them are
    "Stan Freberg Show" alumni. The first is Stan himself.
    He's been a hero of mine since I was eight and
    discovered my parents' lp of "Stan Freberg Presents
    The United States of America, volume I: The Early
    Years".  Second is June Foray. (Does anybody have any
    details on her other radio appearances? According to
    [removed], she was on
    many shows, including Jimmy Durante and Lux, and even
    had her own kids show as Lady Makebelieve.)

    Peter Leeds is also still alive--at least, he was a
    few years ago when Stan had a reunion for the release
    of his shows by Radio Spirits. I hear Peter Leeds all
    the time in my listening, especially on Nero Wolfe,
    Philip Marlowe, Johnny Dollar and other detective
    shows of that era.

    Lastly is Mercedes McCambridge. When I first got into
    OTR as a young teen, one of the first shows I taped
    off the radio was an Inner Sanctum story called
    "Murder Comes at Midnight". The sterling quality of
    her voice has remained one of my favorite aspects of
    OTR!

    I would love to contact any or all of these folks by
    mail, just to let them know how much pleasure their
    radio work has given (and is still giving) me. If
    anybody knows of a way to reach them, I'd really
    appreciate it!

    Thanks,
    Kermyt

    ------------------------------

    Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 15:32:45 -0500
    From: Mahlon Wagner <mwagner2@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Dragnet episode--phrenologist

    On one Dragnet radio episode one of the suspects was a PHRENOLOGIST.  A
    phrenologist is someone who examines the bumps on the skull to determine
    personality.  This was actually the first American Psychology
    (1810-1910)  Of course it is now discredited but it paved the way for
    realizing that the brain and behavior are intimately related.

    I would like to find a reference to this episode.
    Many thanks
    Mahl

    ------------------------------

    Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 15:34:23 -0500
    From: Kermyt Anderson <kermyta@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  videotape

    It's been interesting (and educational!) to read about
    the history of kinescopes and the origins of videotape
    on this digest. (I especially enjoyed Hal Stone's
    recent piece, though I'm not sure I caught all the
    technical details.) Like a lot of people in my
    generation (I'm 32), I would have thought "videotape"
    is something that was invented around 1980, right?
    Actually, I knew videotape had older roots because
    it's mentioned at the end of Stan Freberg's 1950s song
    "Tele-Vee-Shun".

    On a side note, I have Freberg's recent box set, "Tip
    of the Freberg," and the line about videotape has been
    edited out of "Tele-Vee-Shun"! Does anybody know the
    reason for this? Actually, I just found a website
    ([removed])
    with a Freberg chronology, and it states the song was
    released twice (a b-side both times), in 1952 and
    1957.  Perhaps the videotape reference is only on the
    second version? (This site also lists a lot of Freberg
    b-sides that I've never seen or heard of--they were
    not re-released on cd or his older Capital lps, as far
    as I know. Does anybody have any of these on mp3?)

    Kermyt

    ------------------------------

    Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 15:35:46 -0500
    From: Elizabeth McLeod <lizmcl@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Re: Radio's Greatest Year

    On 11/20/03 10:45 AM [removed]@[removed]  wrote:

>     Up to that time, radio news consisted mostly of a reader in the studio.
>     They might have had some recorded reports, but it was mostly pretty dull
>     listening.

    Well, certainly the five-minute Press-Radio News programs fit this
    description -- and that was, in fact, intentional, given the terms of the
    Press Radio Agreement which then governed the delivery of straight news.
    But there were broadcasts which fell outside this category, airing under
    the definition of "actuality broadcasts" or "special events," which were
    news by another name, and this sort of material, incorporating live
    reporting from remote locations, was very common in network broadcasting
    long before 1938.

    For example, during the calendar year 1932, both NBC and CBS aired an
    average of over a dozen such broadcasts each month -- including live
    coverage of the Geneva Conference in Switzerland, a devastating
    earthquake in Santiago, Cuba, the transatlantic flight of Amelia Earhart,
    gavel-to-gavel coverage of both the Democratic and Republican National
    Conventions,  and as the outstanding news event of the year, detailed
    on-scene reports on the abduction and murder of Charles A. Lindbergh Jr.
    (at least one of which used a multiple-pickup "news roundup" format, a
    full six years before the idea was supposedly invented.) There were also
    dozens of overseas broadcasts, dealing both with European news and
    feature reports on daily life. While these broadcasts were not aired
    under any sort of official "World Roundup" umbrella, they were
    nonetheless a vital part of the broadcast schedule.

>     In March, 1938, Ed Murrow and his crew changed broadcast news forever with
>     the "live" shortwave report of Hitler's march into Vienna.  It put radio
>     news on the map--and just in time.  With war obviously looming on the
>     horizon, that one 30-minute broadcast showed the American public the power
>     radio had to inform.

    We shouldn't forget, though, that the "Roundup" broadcast was largely a
    case of CBS desperately trying to make up ground lost to NBC when they
    were badly scooped by NBC European representative Max Jordan on the
    coverage of the Anschluss, due to Jordan's arrangements with the Austrian
    state radio system for exclusive NBC use of the necessary circuits.

    I'd also suggest that far more than Vienna, it was the
    Sudetenland/Czechoslovakia crisis of September 1938 which stood out as
    the news event of the year, and here again, CBS managed to draw attention
    to itself thru its superior publicity machine while obscuring the fact
    that it had been beaten out by NBC on key elements of the breaking story
    itself. Adding to CBS's frustration was the fact that many of their
    overseas reports were obliterated by static from a furious storm raging
    over the Atlantic during the peak of the crisis -- while NBC managed to
    set up an alternate system of relays which bypassed the worst of the
    static.

    But even with those comments, I'd agree that 1938 was an outstanding year
    for radio in all respects -- the balancing point between the adolescent
    growth and self-discovery of the early 1930s and the overstuffed
    complacency which settled in during the 1940s.

    Elizabeth

    ------------------------------

    Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 15:37:03 -0500
    From: chris chandler <chrischandler84@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  radio's greatest year--Anschluss

    Welsa talks about 'Radio's Greatest Year'...

>     In March, 1938, Ed Murrow and his crew changed
>     broadcast news forever  with the "live" shortwave
>     report of Hitler's march into Vienna.  It put radio
>     news on the map--and just in time.  With war
>     obviously looming on the horizon, that one 30-minute
>     broadcast showed the American public the
>     power radio had to inform.

    What a fun [removed] was radio's greatest year?
    1938 would indeed be an interesting guess, especially
    since historians always say 1939 was *Hollywood's*
    greatest year.  You could also make cases for 1929,
    1932, or 1945, for various and sundry reasons, though
    it's certainly a subjective question.

    The above snipped quote from Welsa's post, however, is
    a bunch of bunk. :)

    The Anschluss certainly was one of the defining
    moments for radio news, and technically the first
    great radio war-era crisis.  However, while William
    Paley's publicity department would be overjoyed with
    Welsa's recounting of it, this commonly-repeated
    version bears little resemblance to what actually
    happened.

    It was, in fact, NBC's Max Jordan who all but stole
    the show in Austria, managing to set up what was for a
    time an exclusive American broadcast setup from
    Vienna.  CBS's often-scooped Bill Shirer couldn't
    arrange facilities and was forced to broadcast from
    London, complaining (not for the last time) that the
    Nazis must have believed the "National Broadcasting
    Company" was an American governmental entity and
    thusly deserving of special treatment.

    ((Even if this were true, the idea that it's somehow
    inherently unfair is silliness--journalism was and is
    a cutthroat business, and good reporters scrape,
    exaggerate, and otherwise cajole every day to land
    their exclusives.  Sour grapes are sour grapes,
    whether they're attached to Shirer's name or not.))

    By March 13, Ed Murrow had made it on the air from
    Vienna as part of the undeniably-ballyhooed 'world
    news roundup' broadcast.  This did get tons of press,
    much of it CBS-generated, to their great credit.

    The problem is that this self-promotion has carried
    over into later supposedly-legitimate histories, when
    there are two very important, often-overlooked facts:
    one is that the live multi-city-European-roundup had
    been accomplished as early as 1936 (on NBC,
    masterminded by Max Jordan); the other is that
    Mutual--during this selfsame Austrian crisis--was
    stringing together *recorded* overseas reports into
    single-broadcast 'roundups', and thus may have
    actually pioneered the concept for which CBS has
    claimed credit for 65 years.  Mind you this is highly
    arguable, since the Mutual segments weren't live, and
    the evidence isn't entirely clear as to which network
    actually had the concept on the air first.  But it is
    possible, and at the least still more proof CBS wasn't
    as far out in front as we're often led to believe
    today.

    In addition, [removed] Kaltenborn's 1936 CBS broadcasts
    from the Spanish war front had already opened the eyes
    of the public--and the industry--to the possibilities
    of on-the-spot foreign radio coverage.  Also worth
    noting that Ed Murrow "and his crew" could have been
    "on the map" much sooner--had Paley's CBS actually
    allowed them on the air, as NBC's Jordan and Fred Bate
    routinely were during the mid-30s.

    The Austrian crisis certainly is a key reason 1938 may
    have been 'radio's big year'--and the Czech/Munich
    affair six months later, made it even more so.
    However, by *no* means were either of these one-way
    CBS-led shows.  March, 1938, in particular, was less a
    revolution than a confluence--of events,
    personalities, technology, and innovation. That's why
    it made radio history.

    Chris

    ------------------------------

    Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 15:37:19 -0500
    From: "Bob & Carol Taylor" <qth4@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Dick Curless on AFKN:

    My friend the late Dick Curless while in the Korean Conflict was on Arm
    Forces Korean Network,  does any one have any recordings of his show?

    He was a fine singer and a great rythm guitar player.

    The only two shows I have are from Dick's own collection.

    Bob Taylor

    ------------------------------

    Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 17:22:13 -0500
    From: vigor16@[removed]
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Question of dealers

            Hi all,

    Below is a reply that I sent to a fellow listener and hobbiest and wanted
    to alert the new hobbiest to some pitfalls I went through.  I, as nearly
    all of you, love this hobby and want to see it continue.  Many of our
    first generationers are putting it in our hands, long lives but not long
    enough for me, and we better protect it.  Credibility will be at stake.
    Personally, I found friendly folks over the past couple days when
    digestors wrote me and shared their desire to help.  This is what makes
    it worth saving.  I have a new hobbiest friend coming along and it brings
    back lots of memories of my first show.  Do you, second and third
    generationers, recall our first show.  Mine was the 1944 Amos and Andy
    Christmas show, then, "The day they gave babies away", the show I asked
    about.  I have memories of OTR and am not old enough to recall them first
    time.  Thanks for all your kindness and keep our world clean.  Love you
    all and thank our researchers for uncovering shows and info, and Charlie
    for an open forum.

            Hi,

    Actually I am looking for "The day they gave babies away", found out it
    was Columbia radio workshop or Cavalcade of America.  I guess, according
    to some logs I looked at "All is bright" is CBS Radio Workshop, but my
    copy isn't real terrible.  Some day, may look for a better copy, but not
    right now.  Just had a problem, since the two shows had the same lead in,
    because they were on the same tape, I guess.  The guy that sold it
    apparently has no regard for preservation.  Just another case of the "all
    mighty buck" and that's not nice to do to a new hobbiest.  We will never
    preserve OTR unless we have the greatest regard for future collectors,
    listeners, of course, and recreators.  I don't understand people like
    that.  I understand, from a couple of reputable dealers that he is out of
    OTR selling, and should be.  You can fool a fool, but someday, the fool
    wises up or gets smarter. I have a respect for history and preservation.
    Those who change it, for the sake of dollars, will enjoy it for a while.
    He was notorious for the following practices, which should be no nos:

    1. Putting other show lead ins on wrong episodes--Suspense for Escape,
    CBS Radio workshop, and Columbia workshop etc.
    2.  Seling me shows badly recorded, pops, clicks etc.  I had friends in
    OTR later who told me that some of my shows were terrible.
    3.  Fragmented shows for shows that are in whole and have been for years.

    4.  Recording on mono recording devices.
    5. Received one of his telephone conversations onn tape, inadvertently.
    6.  When I received a bad recording his response on the phone was that
    these are old shows and some of them aren't very good.  The show in
    question was aLRT that I had gotten a year later and was crisp and clear.
     If I have a show that isn't clear, I'd allow one to return it for an
    exchange or something.  Most reputible dealers do that.

    Not very professional.

    I know, you didn't ask for all this, but OTR is my hobby and I want
    others to enjoy it as much as I do.  I have learned to listen to
    reputable dealers, not to say that you aren't. Somebody should get these
    terrible tapers out of the  hobby domain and not support them.  If you
    don't mind, I plan to send this e-mail to Charlie Summers Digest.  I have
    friends who are just getting in and want them to enjoy OTR as much as I
    do.  Thanks for your interest.  Those of you who have responded, and
    there were more than a few, are great folks who love it much.  Let's keep
    it clean.  I have no problem with a person selling shows, but let's make
    it a hobby and not a gold mind.  Just like in the Old West, we may need
    some marshals I guess.

    Hope I didn't boare you,

    Your kindness prompted me to send this,  thanks,

    Deric

    ------------------------------

    Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 17:22:31 -0500
    From: "RBB" <oldradio@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Fran Allison

    I received an inquiry about obtaining recordings of Don McNeil's Breakfast
    Club
    from Chicago with Fran Allison who played the part of "Aunt Fanny."  The
    writer's Mother
    was Fran Allison's cousin, so he would be most interested in those
    broadcasts that,
    in particular, featured "Aunt Fanny."  Please contact Jim Flynn directly at
    FlynnBrokerage@[removed]    Many thanks.

    Russ Butler  oldradio@[removed]

    ------------------------------

    Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 17:22:54 -0500
    From: lawrence albert <albertlarry@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Imagination Theatre in Los Angeles & San
     Francisco.

      The other day Carl Amari posted that "The Twilight
    Zone" will soon be heard in both Los Angeles and San
    Diego. He also said that "Imagination Theatre" might
    be joining his show on both stations. What he didn't
    say was that when he was in talks with management of
    theses stations he suggested they take a look at our
    show, in short he did a pitch for us. Well it worked.
     We will soon be heard over KSUR 1260AM in L. A. and
    KMZT 1510AM in San Francisco.

       We're already on KMBF in San Diego so San Francisco
    was chosen since the same company owns both stations.

      Jim French and I want to publicly thank Carl for his
    generosity and help. He didn't have to do this and we
    didn't ask him.

                           Larry Albert

    ------------------------------

    Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 18:14:50 -0500
    From: Ron Sayles <bogusotr@[removed];
    To: Olde Tyme Radio List <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  11-21 births/deaths

    November 21st births

    11-21-1908 - Martha Deane - Star Lake, NY - d. 12-9-1973
    commentator: (The First Lady of Radio) "Martha Deane Show";
    11-21-1912 - Eleanor Powell - Springfield, MA - d. 2-11-1982
    singing tap dancer: "Flying Red Horse Tavern"
    11-21-1920 - Ralph Meeker - Minneapolis, MN - d. 8-5-1988
    actor: "Crime Does Not Pay"
    11-21-1920 - Stan Musial - Donora, PA
    baseball superstar: "Image Minorities"
    11-21-1921 - Vivian Blaine - Newark, NJ - d. 12-9-1995
    actress, singer: "Lux Radio Theatre"

    November 21st deaths

    04-09-1897 - John B. Gambling - Norwich, England - d. 11-21-1974
    host: "Your Personal Program"; "John B. Gambling Club"
    05-12-1892 - John Barclay - Blethingly, Surrey, England - d. 11-21-1978
    singer, actor: "Palmolive Beauty Box Theatre"; "Richard Gaylord "Guiding Light"
    07-11-1906 - Harry Von Zell - Indianapolis, IN - d. 11-21-1981
    actor, announcer: Bill Smith "Smiths of Hollywood"; "Burns and Allen"
    09-15-1889 - Robert Benchley - Worcester, MA - d. 11-21-1945
    comedian: "Buick Program"; "Melody and Madness"
    10-17-1904 - Jerry Colonna - Boston, MA - d. 11-21-1986
    comedian: "Bob Hope Show"

    Ron Sayles
    Milwaukee, Wisconsin

    ------------------------------

    Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 18:57:29 -0500
    From: Ed Kindred <kindred@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Arc  Kansas/ Arkansaw

    What does this arky stuff have to do with OTR? Well, I did cross a very dry
    Arkansas (choose your own pronunciation) river about 50 years ago
    between Fort Smith and Van Buren to visit Robert Burns house.

    The following two web addresses could lead one to believe that the river
    and state are unrelated to each other in pronunciation. The first would
    purport
    that the river is named after a tribe called the kanza and an arc in the
    river.  The second would place the saw pronunciation on some French with
    perhaps
    a silent trailing s on arcansas for the name of the first white settlement
    in Arkansas

    [removed];q=Arkansas+river+pronunciation&u=http%3a%2f%[removed];s=a&bu=http%3a%2f%[removed];o=0

    [removed]  and then A FEW FASCINATING
    FACTS ABOUT ARKANSAS and How Arkansas got her name.

    The matter for the state pronunciation was settled by legislative committee
    in 1881 and it was once against the law to pronounce it as AR  Kansas.
    Even though my mother was born in Hatfield Arkansas I am now  content to
    pronounce river and state differently, not that anyone really cares.
    Ed Kindred

    ------------------------------

    Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 20:42:21 -0500
    From: "B. J. Watkins" <kinseyfan@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Drama Hour in Los Angeles

    For those who mourn the loss of the Drama Hour on KNX, you can listen to a
    different Drama Hour on
    KSUR "K-Surf" (1260 AM) every evening beginning this Monday at 8 pm and
    repeated at 1 am. They will be airing the new "Twilight Zone" radio show for
    the first month while they work out the rights to the old shows.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 20:49:16 -0500
    From: Jim Widner <widnerj@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Re: Two on a Clue

    At 10:45 AM 11/20/2003, you wrote:

>     [removed]  Does anyone have "Two on a Clue"?  I've seen that a couple episodes
>     exist, and always wanted it, but can never find it.  Ditto for "Secret
>     City".

    Jerry Haendiges has the two episodes, I know. As a side note and not sure
    if this is what brought it to your mind, but the scripts for that series
    were written by the same scriptwriter for "The Affairs of Peter Salem" of
    which Jack French just unearthed a 5 minute clip - Louis Vittes.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 20:47:51 -0500
    From: Timothy Clough <timothy@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  "Watching" OTR and color

    Something I've been wondering about for a while now is in what color do
    people "watch" OTR in? In other words, do you see it in black and white,
    full color, faded color, etc., or is it more like I do--it depends on
    the series, if not the episode?

    For example, on Jack Benny, the oldest shows (pre-Jell-O) are basically
    black and white for me. Starting around the Jell-O years, until they
    left radio, I mostly picture it in faded color, but the colors get less
    faded as the years go on. However, whenever they spoof a movie, I more
    or less see it as I picture the movie itself (regardless of whether I've
    ever seen or even heard of it before).

    Other series aren't quite as complicated. Lum and Abner is just black
    and white for me; Suspense and Escape depend on the individual episode
    more than anything.

    So, to repeat my original question: In what color do other people
    "watch" OTR in?

    Timothy Clough

    --------------------------------
    End of [removed] Digest V2003 Issue #419
    *********************************************

    Copyright [removed] Communications, York, PA; All Rights Reserved,
      including republication in any form.

    If you enjoy this list, please consider financially supporting it:
       [removed]

    For Help: [removed]@[removed]

    To Unsubscribe: [removed]@[removed]

    To Subscribe: [removed]@[removed]
      or see [removed]

    For Help with the Archive Server, send the command ARCHIVE HELP
      in the SUBJECT of a message to [removed]@[removed]

    To contact the listmaster, mail to listmaster@[removed]

    To Send Mail to the list, simply send to [removed]@[removed]