------------------------------
The Old-Time Radio Digest!
Volume 2001 : Issue 415
A Part of the [removed]!
ISSN: 1533-9289
Today's Topics:
The kindly old investigator [ otrbuff@[removed] ]
King Kong [ "Arthur Lortie" <alortie@[removed]; ]
Ted Malone [ "Ted Kneebone" <tkneebone1@[removed] ]
Re: Andy's Middle Name [ Elizabeth McLeod <lizmcl@[removed] ]
Born to Play the Role [ Clifengr3@[removed] ]
Syndicated Big Sister [ chris chandler <chrischandler84@yah ]
Re: Decon History Revisited [ Elizabeth McLeod <lizmcl@[removed] ]
Copyright [ "George Tirebiter" <tirebiter2@hotm ]
Re: born to play the role & status o [ SanctumOTR@[removed] ]
Right Cross [ "Harold Zeigler" <hzeigler@charter- ]
The Greatest Gift--a copyright licen [ Michael Biel <mbiel@[removed]; ]
copyrights, otherwise and OTR [ "Dave Walter" <fredallenfan@hotmail ]
Cleveland and broadcasting [ "Mark Kinsler" <kinsler33@[removed] ]
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 11:59:33 -0500
From: otrbuff@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: The kindly old investigator
I'm anxiously trying to locate some specific episodes of Mr. Keen, Tracer
of Lost Person. Would you collectors who own Mr. Keen please take a look
and see if you have one or more of the following and would be willing to
work with me on a purchase or rental agreement for use in OTR research?
I'd be so highly gratified by any help anyone could offer. All episodes
listed are 30 minutes except as noted. On some lists, dates do not
correspond precisely.
May 29, 1940 - The Case of the Woman Who Wasn't Needed, first part (15
min.)
June 5, 1940 - The Case of the Woman Who Wasn't Needed, final part (15
min.)
June 6, 1940 - The Case of the Vanishing Bride (15 min.)
June 11, 1940 - The Case of the Young Husband (15 min.)
May 13, 1941 - The Case of the Missing Doll (15 min.)
April 15, 1942 - The Case of Murder and the Night Club Singer (15 min.)
Jan. 27, 1944 - The Case of the Man Who Didn't Come Home
March 2, 1944 - The Case of the Lady Who Didn't Want to be Found
March 23, 1944 - The Case of the Room That Vanished
April 20, 1944 - The Case of the Little Black Book
June 22, 1944 - The Case of the Hidden Motive
Nov. 23, 1944 - The Case of the ?
Dec. 14, 1944 - The Case of the ?
May 30, 1946 - The Case of the Golden Scorpion
June 16, 1949 - The Case of Death in the Park
Oct. 20, 1949 - The Martin Street Murder Case
Nov. 17, 1949 - The Concrete Cellar Murder Case
March 23, 1950 - The Yellow Parrot Murder Case
June 15, 1950 - The Amusement Park Murder Case
April 17, 1952 - The Apple Orchard Murder Case
Dec. 13, 1952 - The Famous Actress Murder Case
March 1, 1955 - The Case of Murder and the Omen of Death
In addition, I'm on a major search for Mr. Keen scripts, both for
existing shows on record, and in particular for shows for which no extant
recordings are known to exist. I'd appreciate any help. I'm already in
touch with the Library of Congress, incidentally.
Thanks for any contributions you can make to future OTR research. Your
help will be important to the task, even if you think it might be
insignificant. Kindly contact me directly as soon as you can.
Jim Cox
otrbuff@[removed]
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 12:01:21 -0500
From: "Arthur Lortie" <alortie@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: King Kong
I've just been told about this:
King Kong 02/10/1933 NBC [ad for movie] 30 minutes
Does anyone know if it exists? Or have it on mp3 and / or cassette?
Thanks in advance
Arthur Lortie
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 12:04:48 -0500
From: "Ted Kneebone" <tkneebone1@[removed];
To: "Old Time Radio Digest" <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: Ted Malone
Neal has asked about Ted Malone. I do recall hearing his programs as a
child and teenager (I'm 67). He did have a very relaxing voice and was a
good storyteller. I have two of his broadcasts, but according to the new
Hickerson, there are some others out there.
As long as I am mentioning Jay Hickerson's 2nd edition of the Ultimate guide
[removed] (and all the rest), I just received my copy of this 2001 book. Anyone
who seriously collects old and new time radio should have this volume in
their book collection. This is where you find "the facts" about old time
radio programs. Title, dates the show ran, some of the main performers,
networks, theme song, how many shows are in circulation, and who has these
shows for sale or trade. The trader needs to know that even tho Jay lists
total shows, not all of them have been located, so he tells how many have
been located, as of October 1, 2001. And he publishes an annual supplement
to keep collectors up to date.
Contact Jay for purchase information. No, I don't get paid for this
plug! His email address is: JayHick@[removed]
Ted Kneebone
1528 S. Grant St., Aberdeen, SD 57401 / 605-226-3344
OTR: [removed]
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 12:14:26 -0500
From: Elizabeth McLeod <lizmcl@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: Re: Andy's Middle Name
On 12/31/01 11:07 AM OldRadio Mailing Lists wrote:
Kenneth Clark gave Andy of "Amos 'n' Andy" a middle name of Hogg. Wasn't his
middle name HALT?
Actually, Andy didn't have a real middle name at all. He first used the
"H" initial in episode 410 (7/16/29) while testifying in the case of The
People of the State of Illinois vs. Amos Jones. While under oath, Andy
acknowledged that he just added the "H" on his own to make his name sound
fancier, and it doesn't really stand for anything. In episode 637
(4/5/30) Andy reiterates that he has no middle name, and tells a census
enumerator to put down "M" as his middle initial. (We also learn in this
scene that Andy was born in 1894, that his father was from Mississippi,
and that he is a World War One veteran.)
The first reference to "Hog" comes in episode 932 (3/19/31), where Andy
is trying to exploit his recent notoriety stemming from the
breach-of-promise case by writing a serialized autobiography for a
newspaper syndicate. In this autobiography, Andy reverts to using "H" as
his middle initial, and claims that during his younger years down in
Georgia, he was in charge of the hogs on the farm where he worked, and
was on such friendly terms with them that instead of him calling the
hogs, the hogs would call him -- and in honor of those hogs, he adopted
"H." as his middle initial. As Andy reads this article aloud, Amos
comments sarcastically that Andrew "Hog" Brown would be a good name for
him.
>From that point forward, Andy consistently gave his full name as "Andrew
H. Brown," and by the end of the 1930s, Andrew "Hogg" Brown had become
established as one of his nicknames -- appearing in print for the first
time on the novelty "Missing" handbills distributed by CBS in June of
1939 to publicize a storyline in which Andy was missing and presumed
kidnaped.
"Halt" has appeared in some OTR histories, but has no support in the
actual programs -- it's apparently based on a mishearing of "Hogg".
Elizabeth
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 12:51:37 -0500
From: Clifengr3@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Born to Play the Role
My votes go for:
Phil Harris as hisself
Elliot Lewis as Frankie Remley
Jim Yellen
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 13:15:55 -0500
From: chris chandler <chrischandler84@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Syndicated Big Sister
Dave DeSisto [removed]
I didn't see anything mentioned about the Big Sister
series airing around the mid 60's. I know I used to
listen to it on WXKW - 1600 AM in Troy, NY,
a 500 watt daytime station.
It seems unlikely these were produced this
late--there's no middle commercial, among other
things, but it's possible.
The Big Sister run was obviously produced concurrently
with the surviving syndicated run of Pepper Young's
Family episodes. There are similar in style, and most
importantly, both feature large changes in cast and
production technique starting at the episodes marked
"#26": some actors are replaced, and it's NOT an
improvement (particularly in the case of "Pepper
Young's" Peggy), and the live organ themes are
replaced by godawful canned bridges.
What's weirdest about the material, though, is this:
the Pepper Young run seems to be using the scripts
from the very beginning of the series' network
run--Peggy has just met Carter, etc; however, the Big
Sister material is using scripts from the early-to-mid
1940s--Ruth and John are married, with a young son,
and John's already had plenty of time to stage one of
his frequent flights from home and hearth.
I have also wondered about the source of this
syndicated run of Big Sister/Pepper Young
material--where it came from, when, why, etc. Any of
the soap experts on the list have any info??
Chris
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 13:35:44 -0500
From: Elizabeth McLeod <lizmcl@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: Re: Decon History Revisited
A. Joseph Ross wonders,
Just what, exactly, is the "deconstructionist approach" to cultural
history -- or to any history, for that matter?
Deconstructionist historians contend that historical events must be
"deconstructed" into contradictory interpretations the same way as
literary texts, and therefore any interpretation one chooses to impose
on an event is as valid as any other, regardless of whether such an
interpretation might have actually occured to the people living in the
era of the event itself. The recently-discussed "Jack and Rochester are
Gay" trope is the classic OTR example.
This school is the opposite of what I consider the "journalistic"
approach to history -- the effort to document, as accurately and as
factually as possible the events which actually occured and the manner in
which they were viewed by the people of that time. Deconstructionist
historians commonly fall victim to the fallacy of "presentism," the
application of current ideals and standards to historical figures and
events.
In very general terms, a journalistic historian is more concerned with
the documentation of facts and a deconstructionist is more concerned with
sociopolitical interpretation outside the boundaries of traditional
historical context. It's possible for both of these schools to be
combined in a single work, but generally you can tell in which direction
an author leans after reading a chapter or two.
Elizabeth
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 13:36:39 -0500
From: "George Tirebiter" <tirebiter2@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Copyright
Hello All,
A. Joseph Ross wrote:
The movie "It's a Wonderful Life" is not an example of a work going
"back" under copyright. I don't recall all the details (I'm sure someone
around here does and will fill us in), but the film was thought to be in
the public domain for some time, and most of it was. But someone, if I
recall correctly, realized they still owned rights to the music, which
was not in the public domain, and that's how the film was brought back
under control. The portions of the film which were in the public domain
still are, but the film can't be shown without the parts that are still
copyrighted. It wasn't that those parts ever weren't under copyright,
just that the copyright holders didn't realize they had the rights.
As I recall there were valid copyrights on both the music and the original
short story on which the film was based. So I don't think you could simply
show the movie with the music deleted or replaced because the story is
copyrighted as well.
There are literally thousands of movies that are not in copyright. Some are
silent films on which any valid copyright would have expired, but many are
films from the sound era on which the copyright was not renewed. Most are
low budget affairs produced by independent producers or the old "Poverty
Row" studios (Monogram, PRC etc.) of Hollywood. There are a number of video
dealers that specialize in this stuff. I suppose if someone was willing to
put the time and effort into it some sort of valid copyright could be
established on a lot of this material, but wouldn't be worth the effort in
most cases.
George
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 15:11:59 -0500
From: SanctumOTR@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Re: born to play the role & status of SFX
artists in late 50s-early 60s
Approved: ctrn4eeWlc
In a message dated 12/31/01 11:04:29 AM, Joe Salerno writes:
Jackson Beck - announcer for Superman
Fred Foy - announcer for the Lone Ranger
Could you imagine any other voice in these rolls?
You don't have to - the pre-Foy eps had another man, I don't know his name,
but he certainly didn't have a voice like Fred. Of all the LR narrators,
only Beamer himself could come close
***There were a number of announcers who preceded Fred Foy ("the fiery
announcer with a voice of might"), and I don't feel that even Beemer came
close to Foy's rendition. Actually, I think the next-best rendition came
during the first television season when Gerald Mohr narrated the series and
did the famous opening. He's not as good as Foy, certainly, but he's better
than any of the other radio announcers (or even William Conrad in the 1980s
TV cartoons).***
And Eric Cooper asks:
In the period between 1956 and 1962, were radio people--actors/actresses,
writers, directors, producers, sound effects people looked down upon
at all because they were STILL doing radio? When exactly did radio start
become a "has-been" or "also-ran" within the entertainment business?
***Well, lots of radio performers were already moving into television by that
time, especially sound effects artists and engineers who were network staff
employees and were shifted over to do sound work for video series. For
example, Ray Erlenborn worked on Jack Benny's TV shows and worked for 8 years
on Red Skelton's television shows (and later on SONNY & CHER and other
series. Ed Blainley and Terry Ross provided sound effects on ABC's final
season of THE ADVENTURES OF SUPERMAN and later worked together on
television's DARK SHADOWS (which Ross pointed out had almost as many sound
effects as a radio mystery program and often required two SFX artists). And
of course, lots of radio actors and actresses ended up in television,
especially in live soap operas. (And of course, the casts of TOM CORBETT and
SPACE PATROL did double duty, starring concurrently in both radio and TV
versions, and then there were the radio voice actors like Mel Blanc and JUne
Foray who moved to TV cartoons.) Most of the cast of radio's PERRY MASON
moved to television in THE EDGE OF NIGHT, while Dwight Weist did the early
newscasts on WOR-TV. And of course William Conrad was already working in
films and TV while GUNSMOKE was still on the air (as narrator of ROCKY &
BULLWINKLE and later THE FUGITIVE, THE INVADERS and BUCK ROGERS and director
and/or producer of 77 SUNSET STRIP, NAKED CITY and BAT MASTERSON). --Anthony
Tollin***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 15:15:53 -0500
From: "Harold Zeigler" <hzeigler@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Right Cross
Hi Anybody,
I don't know where you can get a copy of "Right Cross" from radio but
TMC will show the movie next Tuesday morning (01/07/02) at 03:30 [removed] It
dates the film as from 1950.
It seems strange to the year 02 so soon . How time flies.
Till Next Time,Harold
[removed]
HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!!
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 15:15:39 -0500
From: Michael Biel <mbiel@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: The Greatest Gift--a copyright license!!
From: Joe Mackey <joemackey108@[removed];
The original song is now, in fact, a copyrighted piece of music,
though it wasnít at the time.
From: "A. Joseph Ross" <lawyer@[removed];
How is this possible? Once anything is in the public domain,
it can't go back under copyright.
Check the copyright law again. It's been changed perhaps several times
since you might have last perused it. There is such a thing as
recovered or recaptured copyright, although many of these have to do
with foreign registrations and international treaties.
The movie "It's a Wonderful Life" is not an example of a work going
"back" under copyright. I don't recall all the details (I'm sure
someone around here does and will fill us in), but the film was
thought to be in the public domain for some time, and most of it was.
But someone, if I recall correctly, realized they still owned rights
to the music, which was not in the public domain, and that's how the
film was brought back under control.
I am surprised that I have not been able to find a web source with the
details, but I believe the music had absolutely nothing to do with it.
It was the underlying magazine short-story the film was based on, "The
Greatest Gift" by Philip Van Doren Stern. From what I remember, Stern
had died during the initial 28 year copyright term and his estate
renewed the story's copyright for another 28. Because this second term
was still in force when the 1976 law went into effect, the copyright
term then became the life-of-the-author-plus-50 years. It is now
(thanks to Sonny Bono's skiing skills) life-plus-70 years. Because an
option in the law apparently allows heirs to renegotiate assignable
rights in the second term if the authors had died during the first term,
the heirs to the writer reassigned the film rights to the story to Frank
Capra, Jr. The closest I've been able to come to the details is a
posting at [removed]
Looking thru the on-line copyright registry, it is interesting to note
that the Marlo Thomas version, "It Happened One Christmas" does not
mention the Capra film at all, but is apparently licensed directly by
the Stern heirs. Quite possibly it is this fact that gave Capra, Jr.
the idea that he could also license the film rights and recapture the
rights to his father's film. If anybody unauthorized shows or
duplicates the film at that point, they are violating STERN'S rights, as
well as Capra's.
The portions of the film which were in the public domain still are,
but the film can't be shown without the parts that are still
copyrighted. It wasn't that those parts ever weren't under copyright,
just that the copyright holders didn't realize they had the rights.
Nothing based on the story can be produced without licensing from the
Stern heirs. Since the entire film is based on this story, NOTHING from
the film can be shown without licensing from the Stern heirs. And they
aren't licensing anybody except Capra, Jr. (and he in turn is licensing
Republic Films who held the original negative.)
If somebody has authoritative details and can cite the source, please
pass them on.
Michael Biel mbiel@[removed]
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 17:55:27 -0500
From: "Dave Walter" <fredallenfan@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: copyrights, otherwise and OTR
"A. Joseph Ross" <lawyer@[removed]; quotes Joe Mackey
<joemackey108@[removed]; and responds:
The original song is now, in fact, a copyrighted piece of music, though
it wasnít at the time.
How is this possible? Once anything is in the public domain, it can't go
back under copyright. The tune, at least, is and has been under
copyright belonging to the heirs of the two women who wrote the song
(originally "Good Morning to You").
This was also my understanding of the situation. I recall this was also the
general basis of a gag in a magazine (National Lampoon?) about twenty years
ago in which, in a "This day in history" spoof column, it was "noted" that,
upon the 1956 release of Elvis Presley's "Love me tender," several schools
were supposed to have sued him because the melody was supposed to have been
taken from their respective schools' anthem (which, in turn, would have been
based on "Aura Lee," wouldn't they?).
The movie "It's a Wonderful Life" is not an example of a work going
"back" under copyright. I don't recall all the details (I'm sure someone
around here does and will fill us in), but the film was thought to be in
the public domain for some time, and most of it was. But someone, if I
recall correctly, realized they still owned rights to the music, which
was not in the public domain, and that's how the film was brought back
under control. The portions of the film which were in the public domain
still are, but the film can't be shown without the parts that are still
copyrighted. It wasn't that those parts ever weren't under copyright,
just that the copyright holders didn't realize they had the rights.
I believe it was the copyrights to the music and the story "The Greatest
Gift" that had been acquired by Republic Pictures to bring IT'S A WONDERFUL
LIFE under its control. This basic principle was also used by Michael
Jackson to take a mail-order edition of THE BEATLES AT SHEA STADIUM off the
commercial market once he acquired the rights to the Northern Songs
publishing catalogue (which contains most of John Lennon and Paul
McCartney's Beatles-era compositions).
An additional wrinkle in the issue concerns NIGHT OF THE LIVING DEAD, and I
suspect this would in turn apply to most OTR recordings. As I recall that
mess, George Romero's Image 10 company had originally copyrighted that film
under another title (I want to say NIGHT OF THE FLESH EATERS) but the Walter
Reade Organization, which distributed the film during its first theatrical
run, had changed the title to NIGHT OF THE LIVING DEAD, and in the process
of imposing their title on the release prints of the film Reade removed the
copyright statement (which Romero had applied underneath the original title
super) and never reinserted it. As a result, after Reade went bankrupt
within a couple of years of the theatrical release, hundreds of bootleg
prints began popping up, with the bootleggers apparently beyond any legal
recourse Image 10 would have had under the law at the time. Of course, since
most OTR programs don't have copyright statements during the shows
themselves, that's the same basis upon which many of them got released on
the commercial record market in the late '60s and '70s.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 17:59:39 -0500
From: "Mark Kinsler" <kinsler33@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Cleveland and broadcasting
A question for Mr Murtough, and of course everyone else as well:
My mother, a life-long Clevelander, once told me that Cleveland was the home
town of many nationally-known announcers because, among other reasons, the
Cleveland 'accent' makes you sound like you're from anywhere. It is, or
was, sort of a standard of American English pronounciation. Seattle, WA was
the only other city with that distinction.
Since Mr Murtough seems to have some connections with Cleveland, I thought
he might have some thoughts on this.
M Kinsler
512 E Mulberry St. Lancaster, Ohio USA 740 687 6368
[removed]~kinsler
--------------------------------
End of [removed] Digest V2001 Issue #415
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