Subject: [removed] Digest V2002 #207
From: "OldRadio Mailing Lists" <[removed]@[removed];
Date: 6/6/2002 7:20 AM

To: <[removed]@[removed];

    ------------------------------

                                The Old-Time Radio Digest!
                                  Volume 2002 : Issue 207
                             A Part of the [removed]!
                                     ISSN: 1533-9289

                                     Today's Topics:

      Lets just all get along               [ gad4@[removed] ]
      "Military History"magazine -HELP!     [ Howard Blue <khovard@[removed]; ]
      RE: mp3 Audio                         [ "Steven C. Thoburn" <scthoburn@comc ]
      RE: mp3 Audio                         [ "Steven C. Thoburn" <scthoburn@comc ]
      Re: mp3, My Kavner/Cartwright Blunde  [ John Mayer <mayer@[removed]; ]
      OTR and the Simpsons                  [ "Holm, Chris " <[removed]@delphiau ]
      Re: voice tracking                    [ "Robert M. Bratcher Jr." <bratcher@ ]
      Theme restaurants                     [ Derek Tague <derek@[removed]; ]
      Big Baby Jesus Christmas Dragnet      [ "Elizabeth Minney" <epminney@wcsonl ]
      Mr. President                         [ Dennis W Crow <DCrow3@[removed] ]
      OTR Voicetracking                     [ Michael Biel <mbiel@[removed]; ]
      MP3 Giveaway II                       [ "Richard Carpenter" <sinatra@raging ]
      Trading vs. Copying                   [ Michael Biel <mbiel@[removed]; ]
      Re: I want my MP3 !                   [ BryanH362@[removed] ]
      Clear Channel: Owning "Clear Channel  [ "TIM LONES" <tallones@[removed]; ]

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 15:13:47 -0400
    From: gad4@[removed]
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Lets just all get along

    You know, I was thinking. Every year I go to the FOTR convention and have
    one of the greatest times around. I love meeting the old stars, I love
    seeing fellow otr collectors. And the folks i meet there are some of the
    sweetest kindest people I ever met at any show.(believe me, i go to a lot of
    shows)  Jay Tony and the crew have succeeded brillantly in creating a
    positive friendly atmosphere that encourages more to get into otr.

    How come, for some strange reason, when we go onto the net there's so much
    fighting around us? People saying dealers are bad. People are saying trading
    and sharing are bad. People saying ebay is bad. mp3 is bad, tapes are bad,
    yak, yak, yak:)

    I could write a long letter addressing many of the letters here,stating my
    opinion of whose right and wrong.  And if this tread continues, maybe i
    will;)  But you know something? I think maybe we're all wrong for not
    getting along more.  If someone does something legitimately wrong, thats one
    thing. If someone is criticizing someone's preference, Im not sure if we're
    doing the right way.

    I believe right and wrong should be independent of the format one prefers
    and it shouldnt even be mentioned in such discussions.  Some might like to
    download mp3s, some might like to buy mp3 cds, some might like to collect
    reels, some might like to collect cassettes, some like to collect
    transcription disks, some might like to rent 1st generation disks.

    We're in a state of the hobby that there is something out there for
    everyones taste. Instead of bickering over preference, lets make room for
    everyone.  Instead of being concerned with other's collections  and saying
    theirs is less, lets focus on enjoying ours and each enjoying otr in our own
    way.  Lets try to rekindle that spirit of love and fellowship that we see at
    the conventions here. There's enough for all of us:)

    George

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 15:19:08 -0400
    From: Howard Blue <khovard@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  "Military History"magazine -HELP!

    for a footnote for my book, Words at War, I would appreciate hearing from
    anyone who has any copy of Military History, a magazine. -

    please e-mail me off line.

    Thanks

    Howard Blue

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 15:20:32 -0400
    From: "Steven C. Thoburn" <scthoburn@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  RE: mp3 Audio

    One of the things I have not seen mentioned is the fact that mp3's can be
    UNcompressed into wav files, which can then be burned as a standard CD Audio
    disk.  I have done this successfully for my mom, so she can listen to some
    of her favorite shows in her car CD player.  I use a program called Remixer,
    available from

    [removed]

    I believe that the quality is improved somewhat, but substantial
    hearing-loss on my part leads me to ask if any others out there have tried
    it, and do they see an improvement.  (If you haven't tried it, why not do so
    and let me know!)
    I do know the playback rate on one file I checked went from 32 kbps (mp3),
    to 352 kbps (wav), and the "static-ish" background noise I heard in the mp3
    was reduced.

    I Welcome Your Thoughts,
    Steve

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 15:20:44 -0400
    From: "Steven C. Thoburn" <scthoburn@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  RE: mp3 Audio

    I was checking Remixer's web site

    [removed]

    to make sure I had the URL right (I did), and found another program to
    convert Real Audio (ra, rma) files to wav.  They can then be ripped to mp3
    and played on your portable player.

    Handy, Huh?

    Steve
    (No, I do not work for, nor own stock in, Remixer!)

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 15:21:12 -0400
    From: John Mayer <mayer@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Re: mp3, My Kavner/Cartwright Blunder

    "Ian Grieve" <ian@[removed]; commented:

>     How does mp3 sharing hurt the hobby and make shows dry up?

>     Because someone will sell them on e-bay is the usual answer.

    Of course, there's nothing to stop someone from buying a clean show from
    a professional dealer and then selling the show on eBay as analog cd's
    or any other format. The investment in the original show is small, the
    sound quality is better than any mp3 they could have downloaded, and
    they will receive favorable ratings from their customers that will
    encourage others to buy from them. Mp3 is little different from the
    cassette technology that preceded it on that score, save for the far
    greater ease of exchange.

    * *******************

    Thanks to all who chastised me for my carelessness in attributing the
    voice of Bart Simpson to Julie Kavner. I should have known better than
    to shoot from the hip, especially when going off half-coked - sorry,
    that should have been "half-cocked" -  in this group. I had hoped I'd be
    allowed a little leeway in my research when speaking of the lesser
    electronic medium.

    As several correspondents pointed out, it is actually Nancy Cartwright
    who does his voice. I was wrong about the lad's age, too, as indicated
    by the title of Ms. Cartwright's autobiography, _My Life as a
    Ten-Year-Old Boy_. To stay on topic, Ms. Cartwright was trained by
    well-known voice coach Daws Butler who did some radio in its latter
    years, including a couple of shows he did with Stan Freberg. In true
    radio fashion she does multiple voices, all of them boys, on the show:
    Tod Flanders, Nelson the bully, and Ralph the ungifted son of the police
    chief as well as Bart. A far, far funnier and much better written show
    than TV Guide's choice for best show of all time _Seinfeld_. (Don't get
    that one at all; maybe that's why I don't bother buying even one copy of
    TV Guide, let alone all four "collectors' editions" with the four
    different covers. [No wonder the starving masses of the world hate us!])

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 16:19:59 -0400
    From: "Holm, Chris " <[removed]@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  OTR and the Simpsons

    In #206, Rick  Keating writes:

>     One great thing about the Simpsons is that it
>     offers tips of the hat to various aspects of
>     popular culture over the decades. I wouldn't
>     be surprised if somewhere along the way, there
>     was a tip of the hat to OTR.

    I believe there have been several OTR references.  The one that comes
    immediately to mind is one of the Halloween episodes, where Marge tells a
    bored Bart that he should listen to the War of the Worlds rebroadcast on
    public radio.  Bart is not interested.

    -Chris Holm

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 16:37:10 -0400
    From: "Robert M. Bratcher Jr." <bratcher@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Re: voice tracking

    KRTS (a Houston area classical music station) uses voice tracking for 95%
    of the broadcast day except for morning & evening drive time slots. Even
    the concert shows are fed into the automation system.

    How do I know? One of the announcers told me when I met him in person a
    couple months ago. The guy who does Midnight Till Dawn (a 7 hour show) is
    asleep while his show is aired. Besides sometimes I hear a "stuck" CD go on
    & on until the piece is normally over and then the recorded announcer comes
    back on with what we just heard along with whatever else he/she has to say
    before a commercial or the next selection is played. I guess the CD's are
    in some kind of rack player system.

    Interesting topic but not quite [removed]

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 16:47:01 -0400
    From: Derek Tague <derek@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Theme restaurants

    Jell-O Again;

           I was wondering if somebody out there can answer this query: did there
    ever exist somewhere in this country a theme-restaurant or saloon  dedicated
    to OTR. You know, dishes named after OTR characters, re-creations every
    Saturday, 1940s music on the jukebox, etc. I'm not holding my breath waiting
    for this  ever to happen realising that the corporate types who back
    theme-restaurants would probably not think the "demographics" were there (much
    like mainstream book publishers who nowadays won't touch OTR).  Did anybody
    ever try this in the 70s or 80s?
    Of course, the perfect name would be "Duffy's Tavern."

    Yours in  the ether,

    Derek

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 18:54:01 -0400
    From: "Elizabeth Minney" <epminney@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Big Baby Jesus Christmas Dragnet

    Someone on the list wrote of Harry Bartell's portrayal of the priest on
    the "Big Baby Jesus" Christmas episode of Dragnet.  I suddenly
    remembered a video of Christmas shows from the "golden age" of
    television given to me a long time ago.  I had never watched it.
    Wonder of all wonders, it included this very Dragnet program!  So I got
    to see Mr. Bartell in person for the first time!  I recognized him from
    a still photo I had seen, and his voice identified him as well
    (although it was much muted on television--didn't have quite that
    distinctive ring to it).
       There was an unexpected bonus in that same show:  I recognized Ralph
    Moody solely by his voice.  I had never seen pictures of Mr. Moody, but
    his voice was instantly identifiable--without question.  He played the
    crotchety proprietor of a store selling religious objects.  Herb Vigran
    appeared as well, but I don't know his voice as well as those of Mr.
    Bartell and Mr. Moody.
       It was a treat to see Mr. Bartell acting--he made an elegant priest.
       One other comment:  is it the black and white filming which does
    this, or is it my imagination, but nearly all the actors on that
    particular show had exceptionally brilliant eyes.  (Perhaps Jack Webb
    chose his cast for their arresting ([removed]) [removed])
       Elizabeth Minney

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 22:20:13 -0400
    From: Dennis W Crow <DCrow3@[removed];
    To: OTR Digest <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Mr. President

    One of my favorite Sunday programs when I was growing up was "Mr.
    President."  Every week  I received a new history lesson and a tantalizing
    mystery.  Who was Edward Arnold portraying this week? The show's research
    unearthed new stories of our elected leaders, and was the subject of our
    conversation around the dinner table whenever we all had listened  to it.
    SPERDVAC's archive lists several programs. The ones I have recently
    listened to have held up well.

    I am wondering how many folks remember this show? And did its  six year run
     feature ALL of the Presidents?

    Dennis Crow

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 22:23:05 -0400
    From: Michael Biel <mbiel@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  OTR Voicetracking

    Just like Roger Lorette commented, "Voice Tracking" is a new term to me
    also.  I had never heard of it until a couple of months ago when one of
    my audio production students asked for my comments.  When he described
    what he meant, I told him that there was nothing new about it--it was a
    technique that was done even back in the 1960s for tape automation.  One
    guy could record all the announcements for an entire 24 hours of
    programming in about a half hour.  What was different--so I thought--was
    just that it is now being done on computer.

    Well, just last week I spotted an article in the Feb 27, 2002 Lexington
    Herald Leader that was in a pile of papers I was tossing out.
    Apparently it was this story, written by Wall Street Journal writer Anna
    Wilde Mathews, that my student had seen--but I had not.  It explained a
    NEW wrinkle to the old automation scheme.  Group owners are now using
    this technique to share announcements among a few of their stations but
    maintain local angles.  Every so often the announcer will do a break
    with set of variations for each of the stations he is being heard on.
    Just enough to trick the listener into thinking that the DJ in their
    city.  It is THIS aspect of the technique that warrents the use of the
    relatively new term "voicetracking".

    These shows are not always done in advance--sometimes the announcer is
    doing the show live in one city but also sending down occasional
    split-announcements to the other cities.  A sidebar article by our local
    paper's writers, Heather Svokos and Karla Dooley, informed me that one
    of my former students, longtime WKQQ Lexington personality Tony Tilford,
    was actually now based in Dayton, Ohio, but still is also being heard on
    his old Lexington station via voicetracking.  20 years ago I had drummed
    "LOCALISM!!!" into his head, and I suppose he is doing split-tracks to
    make his show locally oriented for both Dayton and Lexington--and maybe
    also a few other cities.  (I'd give him a call and ask him--if I could
    figure out where the hell to find him!)

    But since these programs ARE sometimes done live, there WOULD be someone
    somewhere that might be able to react to an important breaking news
    story--a worry brought up by Dan Hughes.  But most of these music-only
    stations have not done any news for many years, so unless it is
    something like the WTC attack they would not interrupt the music
    anyway.  (On 9/11 many of these group-owned stations simulcast the same
    news on all of their stations, feeding them from the news oriented
    station in their mix of formats.)

    But then I pondered as to why I had never heard the term "voicetracking"
    when I suddenly realized that all they had done was make a verb out of
    the old term "Voice Track".  This goes back way into the OTR era.
    Several of the syndicated music library services in the 1930s and 40s
    would distribute voice track discs that would have a series of unrelated
    comments by one of their name band leaders that the DJ could drop in to
    make it seem "almost live".  Back in the 1960s we used to make fun of a
    voice track disc of bandleader Blue Baron that was from an old
    Lang-Worth transcription.  (These are different from the interview discs
    that would have recorded celebrity answers to a printed list of
    questions.  Those were also great fun to fool around with!)

    But what about the original concept of an announcer pre-recording his
    voice tracks for a program?  Who first thought that up?  Might I suggest
    a candidate?  Dave Garroway.  At the Northwestern archive of NBC Chicago
    recordings we had a number of discs for his "11:60 Club" that contained
    only the announcements.  This was a 60 minute DJ show he did at 11 PM on
    WMAQ in the late 1940s, and occasionally if he had a schedule conflict
    he would record his voice tracks and leave that disc with the
    appropriate pile of records with the engineer.  This allowed the music
    to be heard directly off the original 78s, and he could do the show in
    about 15 minutes at a convenient time.  He just had to be very careful
    about timing his announcements so the program would run the proper
    length.  I think that there were occasional notes or a cue sheet in with
    some of the discs because I seem to remember some warning comments if
    there might be a problem with a record or if one of the announcements
    had to be skipped because of a flub.

    I have absolutely no evidence that Dave Garroway invented this
    procedure, but can anyone come up with an earlier candidate?

    Michael Biel  mbiel@[removed]

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 22:20:28 -0400
    From: "Richard  Carpenter" <sinatra@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  MP3 Giveaway II

         The Great Gunsmoke Giveaway continues. To the first person who e-mails
    me, I'll send an MP3 CD-ROM containing about 70 "Gunsmoke" shows, from
    August of 1953 to December of 1954. Ready ... set ... e-mail!

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 22:23:26 -0400
    From: Michael Biel <mbiel@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Trading vs. Copying

    From: "Jackie" <jaxntom@[removed];

>     There isn't anything illegal in trading otr. People trade comic books,
>     cars, tools, etc. That's no different than trading otr and no one will
>     go to jail for trading anything.   Just my 2 cents [removed]    Tom

    Sorry, Tom, but there IS a difference.  When you are trading the comic
    books, cars, and tools, you are trading the ORIGINAL OBJECT.  Most of
    the time when OTR is "traded", you make a NEW COPY and keep your
    original copy.  It is the COPYING that is illegal if the item is under
    copyright.  If you made a facsimile copy of the comic book, kept one and
    sold or gave away the other, that WOULD be illegal if the book was still
    under copyright.  You have put an additional copy into circulation, and
    only the copyright holder has the right to do that.

    Michael Biel  mbiel@[removed]

    ------------------------------

    Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 23:47:32 -0400
    From: BryanH362@[removed]
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Re: I want my MP3 !
    X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative
    X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain

    06-05-2002

    I wanted  to be the one who would come out and say it  ----I like MP3 !
    There are many who decry the lousy  quality of MP3 . These folks remind me of
    the radio networks in the 30' s who were proclaiming so loudly  " the sound
    quality of  transcriptions is inferior to live programming"  when in fact the
    'canned shows'  ,as transcriptions were often referred to,  often had
    superior sound quality to what was coming off the network line. This was
    particularly  true if the station  was a rural one  at the end of the network
    line.  On  the same note MP3 is just not  as bad as some make it out to be .
    Oh sure I have heard some really bad MP3 .On the same token I have heard some
    pretty bad reel to reel and cassette recorded OTR as well.
    Since I have some OTR shows on MP3 that sound fabulous I  realize that
    getting    quality sound from   MP3  is not impossible.  It's just that too
    many people take little care in what they are dumping on to  MP3 discs.   I
    have  experienced the same lack of care when hearing what others have quickly
    and carelessly recorded enmasse on to reel to reel and also on to cassettes
    as well.  MP3 is no different its just that with MP3 it is vastly too easy
    for some to  widely disburse multiple programs without any care as to the
    quality . But just as there is a lot of lack of quality out there in MP3 land
    there is also some pretty decent stuff as well. Most of it may not be the
    remastered  sound but lets  face it not all of us can afford to be purists. I
    love Jack Benny , Suspense , Fibber McGee and Molly , Escape , Phil Harris
    and Alice Faye  and many more AND  I love to listen to the shows regularly.
    To listen to regularly you need to  have a standing collection . Boy,  under
    the old methods of collecting this would cost thousands and thousands of
    dollars ( who could afford that ) not to mention the storage space to have
    all these shows. MP3 is simply convenient and saves dollars. Even  If the
    quality is not quite as good it's still a fair swap in many people's  minds.
    Another  real plus with MP3 is its  portabillity. I don't know how many times
    I would leave town and want to take some OTR shows with me. Usually I would
    take a few tapes and hope that the few shows I chose  would be the shows I
    would be in the mood to listen to when the time came.  With MP3  I can easily
     choose from hundreds of shows by just taking a few discs.  It's great.
    And don't think for one moment that long time radio fans are not into MP3  or
    that MP3 people do not contribute to the hobby . I belong to a few radio
    clubs   (REPS, SPERDVAC ,  NARA )  and also belong to the IJBFC  , the  Radio
    Memories tape library and this Digest . I have also purchased from  many of
    the dealers . In fact I purchased the entire Escape series on cassette from a
     dealer  . That was a few dollars you can be sure.  Quite often in the circle
    of friends I have from among  the local OTR club I  still keep hearing people
    talking about MP3 and they seem  to be pleased with it for the most part and
    not at all in agreement with what is often ranted about on this board. These
    folks who appreciate MP3 as I do tend to stay with a few reliable  MP3
    dealers . And I can assure you that  many of these  people who have  MP3  are
    quite involved in the OTR hobby, the clubs and OTR preservation .
    To suggest those who collect MP3 are just internet freeloaders with no long
    term love for the hobby is simply untrue. it's time for a reality check.

    -Bryan

      *** This message was altered by the server, and may not appear ***
      ***                  as the sender intended.                   ***

    ------------------------------

    Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 09:15:08 -0400
    From: "TIM  LONES" <tallones@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Clear Channel: Owning "Clear Channel" statioms

    Lee:,
         Clear Channel Owns Many of the so called "Clear Channel" AM radio
    stations, including:
    WTAM 1100 Cleveland
    WLW 700 Cincinnati
    WOAI 1200 San Antonio
    I'm sure there are many others.  Their plan seems to be getting as many
    Major AM stations as possible in as many cities. s they can(Just in Ohio
    they own WSPD 1370 Toledo, WKBN 570 Youngstown, and WTVN 610 [removed]
    Major "Heritage" AM stations.) All have news talk on them and essentially
    sound the [removed] the FM side just to get as may signals and formats as
    possible and "Cluster" them in populated areas which is where
    "voicetracking" comes in. Makes for very homogenized, boring sounding radio.
         I am glad for the internet, where at least there can be something
    interesting to listen to if one takes the time to [removed] OTR, for
    [removed]

    Tim Lones
    Canton, Ohio

    --------------------------------
    End of [removed] Digest V2002 Issue #207
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