------------------------------
The Old-Time Radio Digest!
Volume 2002 : Issue 330
A Part of the [removed]!
ISSN: 1533-9289
Today's Topics:
Smoke-Free Cigarettes [ "Stephen A Kallis, Jr." <skallisjr@ ]
Re: Candy Cigarettes [ Elizabeth McLeod <lizmcl@[removed] ]
Re: Elizabeth comments on WOTW copie [ Eric J Cooper <ejcooper2002@[removed] ]
wings cigarette cards [ Maxjo@[removed] ]
Sleepy Time [ "Stephen A Kallis, Jr." <skallisjr@ ]
Re: The Tail Wagging the Dog [ Elizabeth McLeod <lizmcl@[removed] ]
premiums [ "William Harper" <whhsa@[removed] ]
The Talented Mantan Moreland [ "Thomas Mason" <batz34@[removed] ]
Burns and Allen [ Ivan G Shreve Jr <iscreve@[removed] ]
Re: Lux, Kraft, etc. [ Ga6string@[removed] ]
Re: Jeff Corey's Deth [ "james hunt" <jameshunt@[removed] ]
Re: George's Magic TV [ Elizabeth McLeod <lizmcl@[removed] ]
Jeff Corey [ "Irene Heinstein" <IreneTH@[removed] ]
Burns and Allen [ "Irene Heinstein" <IreneTH@[removed] ]
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 10:46:24 -0400
From: "Stephen A Kallis, Jr." <skallisjr@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Smoke-Free Cigarettes
Mary Anne Morel, reminiscing about the candy cigarettes of old, notes,
I distinctly remember "smoking" Lucky Strikes in the late forties as a
dissolute eight year old, but can't recall any other candy brand names,
except that there were others. Does anyone else remember these? Are they
a gimmick of the forties, or earlier than that? And were the names those
of genuine cigarette brands or just sound-alikes? I doubt if there are
statistics that show the popularity of the different candy brands among
small fry, but it would be interesting to know how big a part they played
in luring children into smoking the real thing.
I remember the candy cigarettes well. The ones I "smoked" had boxes that
looked like the "grownup" cigarettes, but the names were near-misses. I
remember "smoking" "Lucky Smiles" and "Pell Mell," for instance. My
parents smoked Dunhill cigarettes, and I'm retrospectively glad that
there wasn't a near-miss candy cigarette for that brand. The boxes that
the candy cigarettes came in looked at a distance almost identical to the
ones they were imitating. The majority of the candy cigarettes I
"smoked" all tasted the same, and i suspect the different brands all came
from a single manufacturer. (The exception were some chocolate
"cigarettes" loosely enclosed in cigarette paper; these cost a lot more
than the standard ones,)
However, I never became a smoker, though both parents were heavy smokers
(my father died a smoker, and my mother quit cold turkey more than 30
years ago, and still misses the morning routine of coffee and cigarette).
I think that the candy cigarettes were less an inducement to youngsters
to start smoking than because youngsters like to ape ":grownup things,"
which smoking is.
I don't believe that there was any concerted effort to get children to
smoke in the 1940s, since in those days most adults smoked, and smoking
was shown in most films and even depicted in OTR shows. The candy
cigarettes in those days, I suspect, were merely a kid's prop, just as
cap pistols were for those who played cowboy or detective/cop.
Are they a gimmick of the forties, or earlier than that? <<
Since I wasn't alive until 1937, I wasn't paying any attention to candies
until the 1940s. But I suspect they were around a bit earlier than that.
I recall seeing candy cigarettes as late as the mid-1970s. However,
inflation being what it was, the "pack" was a much smaller box, and the
"cigarettes" were smaller, too.
Were these ever advertised on OTR? I don't recall any such commercials.
Stephen A. Kallis, Jr.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 10:50:38 -0400
From: Elizabeth McLeod <lizmcl@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: Re: Candy Cigarettes
On 8/20/02 12:07 AM OldRadio Mailing Lists wrote:
I distinctly remember "smoking" Lucky Strikes in the late forties as a
dissolute eight year old, but can't recall any other candy brand names,
except that there were others. Does anyone else remember these? Are they a
gimmick of the forties, or earlier than that? And were the names those of
genuine cigarette brands or just sound-alikes?
What's frightening, in hindsight, is that at least for a time, these
products were actually *licensed merchandise* authorized by the big
tobacco firms, with the specific purpose of appealing to children. (There
were chocolate cigarettes and cigars, and licorice pipes, as far back as
the 1900s and 1910s, but they were generically labeled.) The practice of
copying actual brands seems to have begun in the 1930s, when Brown and
Williamson licensed several of its trademarks, including Avalon, Raleigh,
and Kool, for use on candy cigarettes. As late as 1960, Philip Morris and
Lorillard were entering into such contracts with candy makers, and there
seem to have been tacit agreements in place between American Tobacco, R.
J. Reynolds and the candy makers -- while American and RJR didn't
officially license the products, they "looked the other way" so far as
protecting their trademarks was concerned, figuring the use of their
logos was a form of free advertising.
Public opinion turned against candy cigarettes in the 1960s, and between
1967 and 1970 the Big Tobacco firms canceled their contracts, withdrew
permission for the use of their logos, and in some cases indignantly
denied -- despite the evidence to the contrary -- that they had ever
authorized such use in the first place. Undaunted, candy makers began
using close imitations of cigarette logos on their packages -- as late as
the 1980s, you could find "Lucky Spikes," "Marlbros" and "Virginia Slams"
on the candy racks. In recent years, though, the manufacturers have moved
away from close imitation of real cigarette brands, and have begun
calling their products "candy sticks" instead of "candy cigarettes." Our
local candy store carries a brand called "Target Candy" -- which comes in
a pack with a red bullseye circle on a white background.
Elizabeth
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 10:51:36 -0400
From: Eric J Cooper <ejcooper2002@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Re: Elizabeth comments on WOTW copies
I have to disagree with Elizabeth somewhat on "digital cleanups" of WOTW.
They sound better to me, although I can still hear some surface noise.
However, it seems to me that I have heard TWO distinct versions of LP
copies . You can tell the difference at the point where Carl Philips is
describing the monster coming out of the pit. On one version , you hear,
as in Koch's script: "Wait a minute! Someone's crawling out of the hollow
top. Someone or [removed]" with a big skip type noise during "hollow
top".
In most circulating copies, you hear: "Wait a minute! Someone's crawling
out of the hollow (overlap) someone or something"
I only have heard the first variation once and the two copies I have are
of the second variation. To amateurs like me, it would appear to be an
attempted tape edit to delete the "skip"--and not a very good edit
either.
I once heard a 1968 or 69 interview with Howard Koch on KMOX , Saint
Louis, in which he claimed to have someone that was working with him in
connection with the WOTW material. Could this be Manheim Fox?
Eric Cooper
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 10:51:50 -0400
From: Maxjo@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: wings cigarette cards
i remember about 1940 -1941 wings cigarettes put a card in the cigarette
packs with a picture of an airplane on one side of the card & a brief
description of the [removed] also remember that wings had a drawing every week &
gave away a piper cub [removed] don't remember the exact details,but it
seems like you sent in an empty wings pack .
i still have a few of those cards in my memorabilia.
max salathiel
del city oklahoma
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 10:46:46 -0400
From: "Stephen A Kallis, Jr." <skallisjr@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Sleepy Time
Patrick, in response to Lee's question about a product, asks,
Was that the Copoper tire compant? The slogan being "Time to Retire?
"Time to Retire" was the slogan of Fisk Tire Company. The logo is a
little child in a nightshirt, carrying a lit candle, and with a tire
slung over his shoulder. I don't recall any OTR commercials on Fisk, but
then, in those days, I wasn't very interested in car tire ads.
Stephen A. Kallis, Jr.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 10:52:46 -0400
From: Elizabeth McLeod <lizmcl@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: Re: The Tail Wagging the Dog
On 8/20/02 12:07 AM OldRadio Mailing Lists wrote:
Although, as a radio purist, I never allow these
canned effects in anything I direct if at all possible. Sometimes there is
just a sound that we can't generate on our own in our poorly equiped studio
like a car engine, etc.,
To be fair, there's nothing at all "impure" about using recorded sound
effects. 78rpm sound effects records were being used at NBC as early as
1933, and you'll find advertisements for SFX record libraries all thru
the industry trade publications thru the OTR era. A station I once worked
at still had its Standard Program Library sound effects discs, most of
them originally recorded in the 1930s -- and in fooling around with these
I recognized many effects that were familiar from the OTR era. The
Standard Program Library car crash effect shows up all the time in OTR,
as do the Standard police siren and car brakes (you'll hear the latter
two effects at the beginning of every Mutual-era "I Love A Mystery.")
Properly blending sound effects from two or more discs, using one of the
multiple platter turntable rigs found in every network SFX department,
and may have been even more of a fine art than that of creating effects
manually. With speed variations and clever mixing the recorded effects
could be used to create a wide range of unique sounds -- and it took a
real artist to master that technique.
In
modern audio drama, the temptation is to simply have the actors read the
same way, regardless of the scenario they are portraying, and let the sound
effects tell the story. This is why MAD irks so many OTR fans, and sounds
sort of funny in an odd way, like it just does not sound natural.
The tail *does* wag the dog for a lot of Modern Audio Drama productions,
perhaps because of the "coolness" factor in creating elaborate SFX. If
you find yourself listening to the sound effects more than the story --
if the SFX actually call attention to themselves for the sake of their
own cleverness -- then for my money, the balance has been lost.
If they were to remake it today, special effects would run amuck
trying to portray the rabbit in clever and concealed ways, thus removing
>from the story that which was the most crucial, its minimalist element.
I've often said -- and I firmly believe -- that the most challenging form
of radio is the ultra-minimalist two-person dialogue serial in the "Amos
'n' Andy"/"Lum and Abner"/"Ethel and Albert" manner. There are no
crutches to lean on in this format -- no live audience to mug for, no
elaborate sound effects, no lush music bridges to set the scene, no
full-scale production staff, no first-person-singular narration. Just
two people sitting alone in a room creating an entire coherent and
believable world out of nothing but their voices -- all the stress is on
the performers themselves, and the entire program succeeds or fails on
the basis of their ability as actors and on the quality of their script.
There's literally no place to hide, nothing to distract the listener if
you give a poor performance -- which may be why only a very few people
ever really did master the form.
Elizabeth
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 10:52:57 -0400
From: "William Harper" <whhsa@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: premiums
Dear Folks;
Peace be with you.
After the postings about premiums I began to wonder if the various radio
shows that promoted premiums ever did by using premiums in the dialogue of
the show? My research on Straight Arrow indicates that this was done.
Scripture, Sheldon Stark, was keyed to various promotions and thus included
the premium item in the script.
Manituwah,
Bill
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 10:53:18 -0400
From: "Thomas Mason" <batz34@[removed];
To: "OldRadio Mailing Lists" <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: The Talented Mantan Moreland
What a treasure Mantan [removed] a truly gifted comedian. If you have any
doubts get a copy of the movie "King of the Zombies". It has recently been
restored by Roan Archival Entertainment on DVD. He literally steals the
movie with his comedic performance against such B stalwarts as John Archer
(who had a brief run as the Shadow on Radio) and Dick Purcell (star of the
Republic Serial "Captain America"). His work on the later Charlie Chan
movies with Sidney Toler always brought a welcome degree of levity to those
films.
Tom Mason
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 11:30:14 -0400
From: Ivan G Shreve Jr <iscreve@[removed];
To: Old Time Radio Mailing List <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: Burns and Allen
Mike Thompson ventured forth this opinion:
I believe they started doing their husband-and-wife stuff in 1942, due to
falling ratings. I'm with you; I wouldn't recommend the pre-'42 episodes
either. Moreover, the shows just aren't funny. They're poorly written and
the supporting characters are one-dimensional.
I agree with Mike as well--although I will point out that one of the bonuses
of the pre-1942 sitcom shows is that Gracie gets to do musical numbers, with
greater frequency than in the Swan/Maxwell House/Amindent years.
Then, as the applause died down, Chris Chandler added his two cents:
by 1948, the B&A series series featured thinly-veiled imitations of Bert
Gordon's Mad Russian, Bill Thompson's Old Timer, Elliot Lewis' Frank Remley
("Joe Bagley", actually played BY Elliot Lewis!), and Kenny Delmar's Senator
Claghorn--usually all in a single episode!
You know, I'd always been curious as to why the Burns & Allen show
prominently showcased that "Mr. Judson" character played by Gale Gordon (I'm
guessing this is who you are referring to when you mention Burns'
"appropriating" a Senator Claghorn character)--he has to be, without a
doubt, the unfunniest supporting character in the history of radio comedy.
(His punchline, "Little lady, I like your sense of humor" always gets a
scream from the audience, something that still puzzles me to this day.)
Every time I listen to one of those shows I think "They got rid of the Happy
Postman for THIS?"
Thanks for the enlightening post re: Burns & Allen, Chris.
Ivan
--
"I know I'm [removed] as long as I make 'em laugh they're not gonna lock me
up." -- Red Skelton
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 11:45:45 -0400
From: Ga6string@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Re: Lux, Kraft, etc.
Herb Harrison writes:
Lux is still [removed] at my local '99 Cents Only' store: 3 bars for 99
cents.
Where are you located? I've never seen it here in Georgia, but if I do, I'll
certainly give it a try.
Brian, I assume you watched "Kraft Theater" on TV. Didn't that have an
effect on the brand of macaroni-and-cheese mix that your mother bought?
Well, you know what they say about assumptions. :^) Actually, Kraft Theater
was off the air before I was 5, so I have no memory of it (although I loved
the mac 'n' cheese, and today MY kids do, too). On the other hand, I'm sure
the ads that ran during the "Bugs Bunny - Road Runner Hour" on Saturday
mornings, circa 1970, had a profound influence on what breakfast cereal,
etc., we ate.
But here I go, drifting off-topic [removed]
Bryan (nee "Brian") Powell
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 13:31:34 -0400
From: "james hunt" <jameshunt@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: Re: Jeff Corey's Deth
S I have just finished reading the obituary of actor Jeff Corey in today's
"New York Times
Online."
There is info on his character roles in such films as "Little Big Man",
"Butch Cassidy And
The Sundance Kid" etc and his being blacklisted in the 1950's-all of which I
already knew.
He also-about this time-started an acting school and among his clients were
Barbara Striesand,
Richard Chamberlain and a very young Jack Nicholson.
I know this man from movies and some tv.
However, I think he also did some radio acting in the 1940's-1950's. Though
this Is Not
touched upon in the NY Times article.
Are Jeff Corey, the movie, tv, stage actor and Jeff Corey, the radio
actor-two different
men or the same person?
I have a 1950's broadcast of "Escape:"Three Skeleton Key' and another ,
"Blood Bath"
in which Jeff Corey has third billing.
I'm hoping someone on the list an help me with this.
Thank you very much.
DH.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 13:32:26 -0400
From: Elizabeth McLeod <lizmcl@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: Re: George's Magic TV
W. Gary W. wonders,
i'd have to agree that adding ronnie burns to the TV cast does seem directly
influenced by the success of ricky nelson. but what was the precedent for
the magic TV set in george's den?
I think you can trace this back to "The Big Broadcast of 1936," a 1935
Paramount comedy which brought together a wide assortment of radio
entertainers, tied together by a loose plot. Burns and Allen have a key
role in that plot -- with George trying to sell broadcasting executive
Jack Oakie his latest invention -- a futuristic television set which can
monitor the activities of anyone, anywhere. Burns and Allen demonstrate
the device to Oakie by tuning in on various specialty bits done by radio
personalities -- including a scene in Amos and Andy's "A&A Grocery
Store," a vocal selection by Bing Crosby, a performance by the Vienna
Boys Choir, a dance specialty by Bill Robinson, and -- the highlight of
the picture -- Ethel Merman's "The Animal in Me," with Miss Merman
romping and frolicking in front of a process screen depicting a herd of
circus elephants, who are manipulated into doing Berkleyesque
musical-comedy dance routines by clever film editing. (This is one of the
most skull-imploding, hallucinogenic scenes ever committed to film, and
no amount of description can ever substitute for the experience of
actually seeing it.)
I'd suggest that Burns remembered this "ominscient television set" idea
from the film, and decided years later that a similar concept would work
on his TV program.
Elizabeth
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 13:32:34 -0400
From: "Irene Heinstein" <IreneTH@[removed];
To: "OTR" <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: Jeff Corey
Michael Gwynne wrote of the death of Jeff Corey. In case he and others are
interested here's a link to Jeff Corey's obituary in today's NY Times.
[removed]
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 13:52:57 -0400
From: "Irene Heinstein" <IreneTH@[removed];
To: "OTR" <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: Burns and Allen
Chris Chandler 'bashing' George Burns? :))
Even if everything you said about Burns is true it's certainly not unusual
in a competitive medium, and surely he's not alone.
I'm a big fan of Burns and Allen and George was one of the true good guys in
Hollywood by all accounts. We were on vacation in Lake Tahoe and Burns
was closing his show the same night we arrived at the hotel. My then
adolescent daughter and I got on the hotel elevator and George was in there
alone. My daughter knew him from "Oh God" and showed that recognition.
He was absolutely delightful on that elevator ride and had us laughing for
about 6 floors. Nice man.
He bought Gracie a new mink coat when she was seriously ill claiming that
would keep her from knowing just how ill she was because she knew he
wouldn't waste money buying a mink for a dying person.
Irene
--------------------------------
End of [removed] Digest V2002 Issue #330
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