Subject: [removed] Digest V01 #168
From: <[removed]@[removed]>
Date: 6/4/2001 9:19 AM
To: <[removed]@[removed];

------------------------------


                      The Old-Time Radio Digest!
                         Volume 01 : Issue 168
                   A Part of the [removed]!
                           ISSN: 1533-9289


                           Today's Topics:

 AUDIO FORMATS PROPAGANDA             ["stephen jansen" <stephenjansen@ema]
 Ralph Bell                           ["Ryan Osentowski" <rosentowski@neb.]
 The REAL Father of Radio             [GEORGE WAGNER <gwagneroldtimeradio@]
 A Clash of Symbols                   ["Stephen A Kallis, Jr." <skallisjr@]
 Profuse Thanks to Greg Gregersen!!   [GEORGE WAGNER <gwagneroldtimeradio@]
 Media at bay                         [Bhob Stewart <bhob2@[removed]; ]
 Re: Mysterious Traveler              ["Jan Bach" <janbach@[removed];     ]
 Don Ameche's Younger Brother         ["David H. Buswell" <dbuswell@rivnet]
 Mandel Kramer                        [otrbuff@[removed]                   ]
 Copyright, Napster and RSI. (whew)   [StepToons@[removed]                  ]
 Final word and an apology            [Eric Cooper <ejcooper2001@[removed];]
 Arlene Francis                       [Gary L Knox <glkteach@[removed]]
 Radio for children -- today?         ["Ted Kneebone" <tkneebone1@[removed]]
 Captain Kangaroo                     [William L Murtough <k2mfi@[removed];]
 =?iso-8859-1?Q?Fluffs=8A=8AA?= Biggi [hal stone <dualxtwo@[removed];    ]

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 02:45:17 -0400
From: "stephen jansen" <stephenjansen@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  AUDIO FORMATS PROPAGANDA

     I think back to the pre-cd-burning days about [removed] had just
bought an LP by some BritishNewWaveBand called BowWowWow (come on! I was a
teenager then!) and there, printed on the paper record sleeve was a picture
of a cassette tape with 2 bones in an "X" underneath.  Below this odd
skull-and-crossbones was the phrase: "HOME TAPING IS KILLING MUSIC".
     What a blatant, bald-faced lie!  My poor ignorant teenaged brain didn't
realize it then, but I sure do now.  The '80's had some record profits for
all the big record labels.  They just wanted us to buy THEIR cassettes for
$8 rather than buy a blank tape for $2 and record the album from a friend.
Where did all of those profits come from, if all of us were pirating this
music from each other?!?!  What happened was that more people were exposed
to more music, so they went out and bought more.  Most of the tapes I had
made were of lesser-known bands that I wanted to introduce to someone.
Often, those people went out and bought more music by those bands.
     I'm pretty sure that now there is a copyright fee built into the cost
of every single blank cassette we buy.  Probably the same for
video/DAT/Minidisc/and (definately)"Music" cd blanks.  Never mind the fact
that some of us record OUR OWN music/audio works/family video and must still
pay the built-in cost of those "lost revenues" to the record companies.
     Now mp3 is a whole new can'o'worms.  Frankly, after storing stacks of
record albums and boxes of cassettes and shelves of cds, THESE are some
worms I can really sink my teeth into!  No generation loss.  Lots of audio
in a little space.  All from a nice little computer program.  Thank goodness
the computing industry is separate from the recording industry, or this may
have never seen the light of day.  Back in the early '90's, the recording
industry, through legislation and heavy tarriffs, effectively STOPPED the
introduction of DAT (Digital Audio Tape - for those of you who might not
have even heard of it) into this country.  You couldn't touch a DAT recorder
(couple'a'hundred bucks in Japan) for less than $1,000 here.
     But now, it is TOO LATE!  Mp3 is here, and anyone with a computer can
make their own.  Granted, some OTR fans poo-poo mp3 because much of it is
low-bitrate/ low audio quality, but it doesn't have to be.  This is done to
conserve space, to fit more on a cd, to send quicker over the internet.  It
can be encoded at very high quality (and SHOULD!).
     The times, they are 'a' changin', and you companies better change with
them or be wiped out!  The grandparents still use cassette tapes, but your
FUTURE customers won't!  They'll laugh about them, just like the rest of us
laugh about 8-tracks.  "What were they thinking?  Hawhawhaw!".
     THREE DOLLARS to download a half-hour show?!?!  Make it 25 cents a
download, and I'll come and spend $10 or $20 at the website.  At $3, I won't
spend one thin dime there.  Does that three bucks get me some graphics to
download to print out my own cd cover?  Or a nice text file with
trivia/biographies/complete show log?  What does the company actually DO for
my 6 dollars an hour?  When I say "me", of course, I mean "us", the hundreds
or thousands(?) who visit the site every day.  It makes me think of the toll
road.  75 cents.  Not really that much at all.  Times how many cars every
hour of every day?  HOW MUCH MONEY IS THAT, REALLY?!?!
     Besides the fact that a company can't be bothered to store every
episode of every show in stock, mostly due to storage limitations.  So all
of those cool, strange shows are mostly impossible to find at the OTR
company.  Good luck trying to find Latitude Zero or Police Headquarters or
(fill in the name of your favorite excellent oddball show here).  The OTR
company offers a list of a single show you can BUY, and then pay something
like $12 (!) an hour for those shows on your list.  Which is almost
understandable, because it is a special service.  They must go down to their
vault (shades of Jack Benny) to dig out/dust off the
"not-popular-enough-to-be-showcased-upstairs-with-nice-packaging-and-color-c
over" shows you want and record them onto normal-bias tapes.  Of course,
storage concerns become almost nil when we talk about mp3's.  So a
forward-thinking OTR company could offer an enormous amount of incredibly
varied shows, right there, upstairs, behind the counter.  Or right there, at
the website, for a nice 25 cent download.
     Tell your non-computer friends how for the price of their reel-to-reel
recorder and their cassette recorder, they could buy a nice computer of
their own, and start enjoying OTR for just pennies a show.  It'll pay for
itself in no time at all, just in blank tape costs saved!  And they can pick
up the wonderful RIO VOLT, and listen in their car, or anywhere!
     Then tell them to go visit Martin Hunt's OTR Archive site, and watch
them drool with pleasure.  He's the greatest.  Go there and buy some stuff,
you won't be sorry.  Help keep the OTR hobby alive and thriving!  Be sure to
share your love of OTR with your friends and families.
     Remember, Old Time Radio never dies, it just changes formats!

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 10:13:12 -0400
From: "Ryan Osentowski" <rosentowski@[removed];
To: "old time radio" <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  Ralph Bell

Hi all:
For those of you who were not aware, I am a totally blind person.  I
subscribe to the talking book library, which sends out books on tape for
blind readers.  Last week, I picked up a Sherlock Holmes novel, and when I
popped it in the player, I was amazed to hear the unmistakable voice of
Ralph Bell as the narrator.  Ralph is one of my favorites and ranks right up
there in talent with Bill Conrad, Paul Frees and Mandell Kramer.  Does
anyone happen to know if any other otr actors narrated for the American
Printing House for the Blind talking book program?
RyanO



"It don't matter how a man [removed]'s how he lives that's important."
CPT. Augustus McCrae "Lonesome Dove"

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 10:13:16 -0400
From: GEORGE WAGNER <gwagneroldtimeradio@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  The REAL Father of Radio

     Dr. Mahlon Loomis, dentist, sent radio-telegraph
messages between Washington, D. C. and Virginia in
1865.
     By 1871 Dr. Loomis began construction of
radio-telegraph transmitting stations in California
and Tokyo. At that time connections between the West
Coast and Japan had to be sent the LONG way 'round,
via the Atlantic cable. By the time the messages
arrived at their destination, after numerous repeats,
the results very often resembled the end product of
the once-popular parlor game known variously as
"Telegraph" and "Gossip."
     Unfortunately, Loomis' financial backers were
from Chicago and their fortunes were wiped out by the
Great Chicago Fire of October, 1871.
     In late 1876 or early 1877 Loomis obtained two of
Alexander Graham Bell's brand-new telephones and used
them to hold the world's first radio-telephone
conversations. The 'phones were positioned 20 miles
apart.

     George Wagner
     GWAGNEROLDTIMERADIO@[removed]

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 10:15:23 -0400
From: "Stephen A Kallis, Jr." <skallisjr@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  A Clash of Symbols

J Alec West, commenting on the MediaBay/RSI lawsuit, noted,

I meant a bit more when I said "symbolism." They're basically roping a
dead horse.  <snip> There
are too many other peer-to-peer clients out there providing a MUCH better
selection of OTR than Napster ever did.  <snip> Anyhoo, that's what I
mean by symbolic.  They're roping a dead horse while a whole herd of
stallions gallops by behind them.

There are two factors that are important.  One is that they might be able
to get some cash.  Second, and more important, if the case is settled in
their favor, MediaBay has an established precedent -- another weapon that
can be used against smaller dealers.  Wouldn'yt it be ironic if the only
two ways people could get Public Domain OTR shows would be through RSI
and free over the Internet?  I don't want to see the other dealers go out
of business if they have Public Domain OTR shows because of what looks
like sleazy legalistic processes.

Stephen A. Kallis, Jr.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 10:15:26 -0400
From: GEORGE WAGNER <gwagneroldtimeradio@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Profuse Thanks to Greg Gregersen!!

    Greg most kindly supplied me with three really
nice laser prints of noted radio actor Matt Crowley
("Jungle Jim," "Batman," "Mark Trail," etc.). Crowley
has been one of my favorite radio voices for many
years, but I'd never before seen so much as a single
photograph.
    So thank you very, very much, Greg. You are truly
one of the best of the good guys of OTR.

    George Wagner
    GWAGNEROLDTIMERADIO@[removed]

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 10:17:21 -0400
From: Bhob Stewart <bhob2@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Media at bay

Amid the hoohah over Radio Spirits, I keep waiting for someone to
elaborate on MediaBay's world takeover. But this doesn't seem to be
forthcoming, so I'll toss this in. My source is a January issue of
PUBLISHERS WEEKLY. Employing content from Radio Spirits, MediaBay
currently produces three syndicated radio series: WHEN RADIO WAS with
Stan Freberg, RADIO SUPER HEROES and RADIO MOVIE CLASSICS. This same
content provides a basis for their new subsidiary, RadioClassics Inc.

RadioClassics has several business partners, including Richard Brescia
(formerly with CBS Radio Networks), Lloyd Werner (formerly with CBS
Cable) and Stanley Moger of SFM Entertainment, an ad-oriented
programming provider to national television. This team intends to take
RadioClassics to numerous platforms -- cable TV, satellite TV, satellite
radio, traditional radio and the Internet.

Moger explained, "We can offer advertisers wholesome family
entertainment and package this entertainment across multiple channels,
so that one ad buy can get an advertiser on radio, cable, satellite and
the Internet."

With this approach, MediaBay has been in discussions with cable
companies, DirecTV, radio stations and other outlets. MediaBay currently
projects RadioClassics will bring $70 million in revenues and $25
million in profits during the next five years.

I can see how this could easily fit into the line-up on a digital cable
system. For instance, Time Warner digital cable carries Music Choices
Channels. When you click to bottom of all television channels, the final
40 channels are the audio-only Music Choices. Each is a different music
genre, and suddenly finding a single channel there airing 24-hour OTR
would be no surprise.

Bhob @ PRE-FUSE @ [removed]

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 10:17:23 -0400
From: "Jan Bach" <janbach@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  Re: Mysterious Traveler

Hello again --

Owens Pomeroy says:

It seems like no one mentioned the OTR Program "Mysterious Traveler" and
"The Man In Black," who introduced the show.

I may be wrong, but wasn't the Man in Black associated only with some of the
early Suspense shows? I know that on that program Joe Kearns played the Man
in Black. I believe the mysterious traveler himself introduced the show of
the same name.

Jan Bach

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 10:17:25 -0400
From: "David H. Buswell" <dbuswell@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  Don Ameche's Younger Brother

Mark Lambert's recent post on  Don Ameche, brought back memories of my youth
growing up in Oak Park, Illinois.  A suburb of Chicago, Oak Park was home to
many notables ([removed], Frank Lloyd Wright, Ernest Hemingway, Betty White, et.
al.).

I was born there and my grandmother's next door neighbor in the 1930s  was
Jim Ameche, Don's younger brother.  Jim, of course, had quite a career in
OTR including the original Jack Armstrong. His voice was almost an exact
duplicate of Don's.

My grandparents were quite proud of the fact that a celebrity lived next
door.

Dave

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 10:17:27 -0400
From: otrbuff@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Mandel Kramer

Fred Berney inquires if Mandel Kramer (note spelling) ever appeared on
television.  Of course!  A distinguished voice like his couldn't be
allowed to simply fade away when the golden age of radio disappeared at
the peak of his career.  With his good looks to go with that identifiable
voice, he was quickly snapped up by one of my favorite daytime serials on
TV, The Edge of Night, where he appeared every day for 20 years
(1959-1979) as one of the masculine leads in the role of police chief
Bill Marceau.

It was the heyday of a great crime drama that lasted all the way from
April 2, 1956 (when it debuted as one of the first two half-hour soap
operas on TV, alongside As the World Turns) through a final telecast Dec.
28, 1984.  Kramer was a key element of the story line in a part that was
made for him (think Lieutenant Tragg on radio's Perry Mason, 1943-55).

The Edge of Night was, of course, a thinly veiled cover for a daytime
version of Perry Mason on TV, relying upon Irving Vendig (who had written
Perry Mason on radio) to create it, John Larkin (Perry Mason) to star in
it at its inception as district attorney Mike Karr, Procter & Gamble to
sponsor it (as it had done for all the years of radio's Perry Mason), and
so many other obvious ties to the aural series, especially the plots.

It resulted when novelist Earle Stanley Gardner wouldn't give his
permission for CBS to bring Perry Mason to a daytime TV audience.  Anyone
enamored with Mason on radio who watched The Edge of Night would have
been pleased with how it was accomplished anyway.  And Mandel Kramer
contributed magnificently, just as he did in every role he ever had.

Jim Cox

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 10:19:13 -0400
From: StepToons@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Copyright, Napster and RSI. (whew)

In a message dated 6/4/01 2:48:48 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [removed]
Kallis writes: (in regards to RSI's response to a query for a list of their
entire catalog)

<< And if a dealer politely asks which programs RSI has rights to, they
respond that
 they're not going to say: their reason being that to do so would give
 unfair marketing advantage to the competition. >>

Hello!

As an innocent bystander but a member in good standing at ASCAP I thought I
would throw in my two cents about RSI's response.
I think it is perfectly fine that RSI not give this information out to any
competitor. RSI apparently spends a great deal of money and time
investigating copyright ownership before offering a title to the public. If a
company or individual wants to sell a recording they should investigate, on
their own time and money, who owns the copyright to the work in question
before they offer it for sale. The Question should not be whether RSI owns
the recording, it should be WHO owns the recording in question. Why should
RSI tell a competitor which titles they have not been able to acquire for
their catalog yet? They should be checking with the Library of Congress. (If
RSI does not own the title in question, someone else might.)
Offering this list of owned materials is not only not legally required it
actually would give unfair marketing advantage to the competition.
As far as RSI's legal attack on Napster, I applaud them, as I would applaud
any other, for trying to squash copyright infringement. Considering that the
Napster Catalog changes, literally, every second (with users signing on and
off) to state and complete list of "WHICH" titles are being infringed upon is
an unnecessary and impossible task. A sampling showing even ONE title is
enough to make their case.
As a copyright owner, myself, if I saw even ONE of my titles unlawfully
offered on Napster, that would be all it would take for me to take action. I
look at my catalog of work as another would look at their own children.
You don't have to take all of my baby's, you just have to touch one of them
and I'll be one angry Papa.
Napster is similar to the "Temple of Thieves." Napster thinks that the temple
shouldn't be held responsible for opening their doors to the thieves and
making them a happy home.
Some condone this practice of "trading" material on line stating that "no
money is exchanged so it is a fair and lawful practice." "Commerce" began
with trade, money only makes commerce easier. Converting goods or services
into money and then back again is what makes business stay in business. All
online "material trading" is doing is skipping a step. But it does not make
it right.
Pay for what you own.
Don't bootleg.
Be honest.
And then you will have the right to feel proud of your collection.
Okay, I need some coffee. It appears I'm feeling a bit grouchy this morning.
Grrrrrrrrr.
Be seeing you!
Step

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 10:19:16 -0400
From: Eric Cooper <ejcooper2001@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Final word and an apology

I obviously have trouble communicating with dealers and some others on the
subject of costs. So this is my final word on the subject ( I promise,
Charile!!).  First of all
an apology to OTR dealers on this mailing [removed] I am sure there is not one
of your customers who doesn't appreciate the time and trouble that you and
your fellow
OTR/tape dealers go to to get things to sound better and are willing to pay
for it. I am sorry If at at all implied that you do not do a lot of work and
go through a lot of
trouble for your customers. I am sure that you do .

My experience with various OTR dealers is that,  with some it has been worth
5 or 10 dollars per tape or CD, while with others, it would seem that they
are merely
selling me a tape or CD of an MP3 copy of an episode that they themselves got
over the internet. The reason I know this is because I have now had the
experience
of obtaining more than a hundred shows in MP3 format and burning them onto CD
for my own personal listening. I know the variances in sound quality that one
finds
out there using this mehod. and therefore I make that claim becuase I
recognize the sound quality of the material that they are trying to sell me.
I am not saying that
EVERY OTR dealer sells MP3  or 5th or 6th generation source material in the
guise of "obtained from the original transcription" But there are some who
obviously do.

Of the shows that I have obtained and burned onto CD, I can say that about
85 percent have reasonable sound quality (to me). Of course this is a highly
subjective
thing. The other 15 percent I am willing to put up with for various reasons,
mostly because I like a particular episode, sound quality not withstanding.

And cost ends up being a big factor with me. I only have to spend 50 cents
per hour of material and I get reasonable audio quality 85 per cent of the
time.

I still drive my 1991 Toyota with its dents and  service needs , because it
still gets me where I want to go. I do not have to shell out $25,000 for a
new Toyota to get
me where I want to go.

I obtain OTR off the net and burn onto CD for 50 cents per hour of material ,
because I am listening only for myself I have been able to listen to a lot of
material that I
have dearly wanted to hear at a fraction of the cost of obtaining excellent
sound from a dealer. And caveat emptor, in case I have tempted a few to start
straying from
OTR dealers--ultimately you will get much better sound quality from them. BUT
while  I am willing to put up with some sound imperfection, others may not be
willing to
do so.

Again this is highly subjective thing.


Eric Cooper

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 10:32:03 -0400
From: Gary L Knox <glkteach@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  Arlene Francis

My parents could not afford a television set in the late 40's and early
50's.  My mother's uncle invited us to their home to watch TV with them.  We
always watched 'What;s My Line'.  Surprisingly, it became one of my favorite
shows when I was about 10 years old.  Recently I found reruns of the show on
cable TV on the Black and White Sunday on the Game Show network.  It still
remains a fun decent enjoyable show after all these years for me.  Arlene's
fun loving, cheerful, and friendly personality made viewers like me wish we
could have met her.  She brightened our day during a difficult time.

Gary Knox
Newton, IA

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 10:32:05 -0400
From: "Ted Kneebone" <tkneebone1@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  Radio for children -- today?

Maybe someone can answer this for me:  aside from popular music, is there
anything left on radio that appeals to children today?  I'm talking about
young children and teenagers.  In our area, we receive all the remaining
networks.  I hear nothing on them, nor do I hear anything produced locally
with kids in mind.  In some of my contacts, I have found teachers who are
using radio as a teaching tool in English and speech classes.  But no one
hears those programs except the students and teacher involved.
    I hate to use the word "market" but maybe there is a marked for kids
shows.  Their allowances and earnings from after school jobs surely is more
than I made in 1947.
    In a recent email, I was reminded about the now-defunct Childrens Radio
Theater.  It was a group that offered to come to your city and produce live
children's radio drama.  In fact, I recalling one program in which all the
authors of the scripts were children.

Ted Kneebone / 1528 S. Grant St. / Aberdeen, SD 57401 / 605-226-3344
tkneebone1@[removed] | OTR:  [removed]

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 10:42:14 -0400
From: William L Murtough <k2mfi@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Captain Kangaroo

I was substitute audio engineer on Captain Kangaroo and never saw a
bottle on the set. Lumpy (Mr. Greenjeans) and Bob (The Captain) did their
swigging during lunch at "Calico Kitchen", which put them in a happy mood
during the taping of the show. That's right, it was recorded.  Also it
was "ad libbed". One of Bob's favorite stunts was managing  to get the
camera cable lined up with his foot, then walking on it straight into the
camera, causing his image to loom up, while Marty, the cameraman, was
furtively trying to "pull back", with no results. By the way, Lumpy
Branigan had played trombone with Fred Waring.

Another comment. Tesla was noted for holding the patent on the "Tesla
Coil".

Bill Murtough

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 11:16:38 -0400
From: hal stone <dualxtwo@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  =?iso-8859-1?Q?Fluffs=8A=8AA?= Biggie:

Subject:  Fluffs

George Aust asks if anyone remembers fluffs or embarrassing moments on OTR.

I remember relating this story before, but I'm not sure if it was in a
public forum like the Digest. Stop me if you heard this one! :)

During the years that the "Archie Andrews" show was on NBC, I can only
recall making one major Boo-Boo. And it was a real "Doozey!

The scene called for Archie (Bob Hastings) and Jughead (yours truly) to
encounter all sorts of problems with a house painting project. The mishaps
happened fast and furiously, with the climax being a horrendous crashing
sound effect. Ladders toppled, glass broke, paint cans flying, etc. Archie
Yells at JugheadŠŠ "What Happened?" to which Jughead was supposed to wail in
response. "I stuck my foot in a bucket of paint". In the heat and passion of
the scene, unfortunately, the line was slightly altered. I inadvertently
yelled back, "I stuck my f--k in a bucket of paint. (Too many "Uck" sounds).

Fortunately for me, NBC, and the innocent little ears of our young
listeners, the show was being recorded and not broadcast live at the time.
After the rest of the cast composed themselves and stopped rolling on the
floor laughing, (or revived after fainting), we redid the scene and my
career was saved.

Honestly, I did not do it on purpose, secure in the knowledge that the show
was being recorded. It just happened.

But that calls to mind a little bit of trivia about the Program and inside
scoop that probably has never been documented. The reason we were recording
the show prior to airing the program in it's regularly scheduled time slot
was a major concession to me by the Cast, Director, and NBC management. I
had recently been called up for Active Duty in the Air Force, and we were
recording the show around my availability to get Leave or Furloughs from an
Airbase in New Hampshire. That lasted about a month, as I recall, before I
was shipped overseas. (Overseas?) Hah! since Newfoundland is bounded by
water, I guess I can use that term.

But you have to admit, it was a damn nice gesture and accommodation on the
part of everyone for the hapless serviceman doing his duty, and protecting
our nation from a potential Northern invasion by something or other. Perhaps
Caribou.

Hal(Harlan)Stone

--------------------------------
End of [removed] Digest V01 Issue #168
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