Subject: [removed] Digest V2003 #339
From: "OldRadio Mailing Lists" <[removed]@[removed];
Date: 9/10/2003 10:53 AM

To: <[removed]@[removed];

    ------------------------------

                                The Old-Time Radio Digest!
                                  Volume 2003 : Issue 339
                             A Part of the [removed]!
                                     ISSN: 1533-9289

                                     Today's Topics:

      scifi & fantasy definitions           [ benohmart@[removed] ]
      Pre-recorded shows                    [ "Martin Grams, Jr." <mmargrajr@hotm ]
      SUSPENSE halves                       [ "Martin Grams, Jr." <mmargrajr@hotm ]
      9-10 Births/Deaths                    [ Ron Sayles <bogusotr@[removed]; ]
      Re: GWTW on radio                     [ "Michael Ogden" <michaelo67@hotmail ]
      Gone with the Wind                    [ "Martin Grams, Jr." <mmargrajr@hotm ]
      Ending of OTR                         [ "Andrew Godfrey" <niteowl049@[removed] ]
      WXYIE Wonderland                      [ ROB CHATLIN <rchatlin@[removed]; ]
      Howard Blue to Speak on WORDS AT WAR  [ Michael Henry <mlhenry@[removed]; ]
      The Streaming Glowing Dial            [ "John W. Matthews" <glowingdial1@co ]
      The Joy Boys                          [ "Kris Stone" <anaheim47@[removed] ]
      Muffin Face                           [ Ed Kindred <kindred@[removed]; ]
      The JOY of the Joy Boys               [ Lilah60@[removed] ]
      NYT Giselle MacKenzie Obituary        [ Sean Dougherty <seandd@[removed] ]

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 13:00:42 -0400
    From: benohmart@[removed]
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  scifi & fantasy definitions

    My take on the definitions of science fiction and fantasy is that sci-fi refers to technology
    in some way, and fantasy relies on magic in some way. To a lesser extent, sci-fi deals
    with futurism, and fantasy is set in more olden times. Just my 2 cents.

    Ben

    The Walter Tetley book
    [removed]

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 13:02:44 -0400
    From: "Martin Grams, Jr." <mmargrajr@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Pre-recorded shows

    In a message dated 9/7/03 5:31:07 PM Central Daylight Time,
    [removed]@[removed] writes:

>     A program is either
>     recorded or it is live.  A recorded program MUST have been recorded IN
>     ADVANCE, so why say that it was PRE-recorded?  It was recorded.  Period.

    No, not exactly. I think I made a posting about two months ago citing this
    example. Many times during the 1950s producers of radio programs would
    arrange for the radio drama to be recorded earlier in the week via
    transcription. This was usually done for one of two reasons. 1. The actor or
    actors playing roles in the drama was unavailable to attend the regularly
    scheduled broadcast time or 2. budget purposes.

    Then during the scheduled broadcast time, the announcer, the sponsor and
    pitchmen and musician would be in the studio, open the broadcast with the
    music and opening announcement, and then relax for a time while the
    transcription (the drama) be played over the air. Then after the drama, the
    announcer and musician would come back on the air and close the broadcast.
    radio listeners would assume that the actors were in the same studio at the
    time of the broadcast, not knowing the drama itself was recorded earlier in
    the week.  Because of union dues (yes, financial cost factor was involved)
    the cost was kept to a minimum. SUSPENSE and I LOVE A MYSERY (Mutual run)
    are excellent examples.  Anyone familiar with the BURY YOUR DEAD, ARIZONA
    and the THING THAT CRIES IN THE NIGHT serials of ILAM know that there isn't
    any announcer recaps in the beginning of the recording.  Now you know why.

    Another easy example is the SUSPENSE episode "The Shooting of Billy the Kid"
    from Spring of 1952 with William Conrad.  The drama exists in recorded form
    but anyone who has ever heard the recording knows that it's just the drama -
    no sponsor quips, no announcer remarks, no music theme song. The reason is
    because Conrad and the rest of the cast appeared in a studio, rehearsed and
    recorded the drama, collected their pay checks and went home (or dinner as
    the case may be). Then a few days later, on the particular evening that
    everyone was used to tuning in to, Harlow Wilcox, Bert Holland, Larry Thor
    and the musician, etc. went into the studio, the station went on the air
    live, the announcers and sponsors opened the broadcast "presenting William
    Conrad in The Shooting of Billy the Kid, tonight's presentation of . . .
    SUSPENSE!"  And as the music died down, someone in the studio began playing
    the recording.  Half way through the drama, the recording stopped, the music
    picked up, Wilcox and Holland pitched Auto-Lite, Larry Thor invited
    listeners to listen to the conclusion of SUSPENSE, the music cue came on,
    the second half of the recording played to the end, music and announcer and
    pitchmen again, and the broadcast concluded.  Problem is, an actual
    "on-the-air" recording does not exist from that 1952 broadcast - but the
    recording of the drama does exist and that's why if anyone listens to that
    episode they'll wonder why they hear the entire drama acted out, but no
    announcer and pitchmen.  In a sense, at least we have the drama to enjoy -
    better than no recording at all.

    This is why we sometimes hear on the recordings at the end of some radio
    broadcasts "portions of this evening's broadcast was pre-transcribed" or
    something to that effect.
    Martin Grams, Jr.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 13:04:37 -0400
    From: "Martin Grams, Jr." <mmargrajr@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  SUSPENSE halves

    Michael Gwynne asked:

>     They are both incomplete for the oddest of reasons. I speak of the
>     Suspense episodes from April 19th and April 26th of 1951.
>          "The Rescue" and "The Thirteenth Sound" two shows back-to-back in
>     broadcast schedule and both incomplete in opposite ways. One missing the
>     beginning
>     and the other missing the end.
>          Tell me it's not true!
>          Can Someone can help me?  The James Stewart show is missing the end and
>     I am left hanging.
>          The other show has merely a missing opening and is just annoying
>     because
>     I know the story.
>          Does anyone have info on why these shows are so weirdly incomplete?

    Sorry Mike, the second half of those dramas are not known to exist in
    recorded form - yet, maybe someone will find a complete recording one day.
    The reason why only the first half of "The Rescue" is known to exist in
    recorded form and the second half of "The Thirteenth Sound" exists is easy.
    A similar discussion was brought up in a previous Digest issue. The
    broadcasts were recorded as they were broadcast "live" so when the studio
    (or sponsor depending on the contracts between the two) were arranging to
    have the episodes recorded asthey aired, the technician knew that if you
    stopped half way through a drama and flipped the transcription disc, they
    would miss a few seconds in the center of the broadcast.  So two machines
    would normally be set up.  Fifteen-minutes into a thirty-minute broadcast,
    the technician would lift the recording needle from one recording machine
    and lower a needle on the second machine to create a constant flow of
    recording.  Since the show was recorded on two separate discs, the very next
    week the technician would use side B of those two same discs to record the
    next broadcast.

    Problem is, over the years these transcription discs got dispursed or thrown
    away or locked up, (whatever) and collector today when they often find a
    transcription disc cheer with joy but easily discover that one disc doesn't
    have one entire program. What they get is the first half of one broadcast
    and the second half of another broadcast - usually consecutive recordings.
    This is why we have the first half of "The Rescue" 4/19/51
    and the second half of "The Thirteenth Sound" 4/26/51.

    This is the same reason why there are two specific broadcasts from February
    of 1951 from INNER SANCTUM that we only half the first half of one broadcast
    and the second half of the next broadcast.  Same reason why there are four
    half-episodes of MURDER AT MIDNIGHT (first half of one episode, second half
    of the next episode and later in the run, once again, the first half of one
    episode and the second half of another).

    Whenever someone finds "lost" episodes of radio shows from the thirties,
    forties and fifties, usually these "lost" episodes come in pairs -
    especially if they were discovered in the form of transcription discs.  If
    only one disc is found, then only one half of two different episodes are
    made available.  Someone recently found two episodes of GANGBUSTERS from
    1936 (or 1937, can't remember) and they are both consecutive broadcasts -
    because two discs were found making them whole.
    Martin Grams, Jr.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 13:04:47 -0400
    From: Ron Sayles <bogusotr@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  9-10 Births/Deaths

    September 10th births

    09-10-1904 - Emery Deutsch - Budapest, Hungary - d. 4-16-1997
    conductor: "Arabesque"; "Let"s Pretend"
    09-10-1907 - Alvin Childress - Meridian, MS - d. 4-19-1986
    actor: "New World A-Coming"
    09-10-1907 - Fay Wray - Alberta, Canada (R:  Salt Lake City, UT and Los
    Angeles, CA)
    actress: Rosemary "Keeping Up with Rosemary"
    09-10-1909 - Raymond Scott - Brooklyn, NY - d. 2-8-1994
    conductor, composer: "Your Hit Parade"; "Chicago Theatre of the Air"
    09-10-1915 - Edmund O"Brien - Brooklyn, NY - d. 5-9-1985
    actor: Johnny Dollar "Yours Truly, Johnny Dollar"
    09-10-1920 - Vivian Block - Brooklyn, NY
    actress: "Let"s Pretend"; Ann Weston "Wilderness Road"; "Coast to Coast on a
    Bus"
    09-10-1934 - Charles Kuralt - Wilmington, NC - d. 7-4-1997
    sportscaster: "Junior Sports Parade"; "Sports Final"

    September 10th deaths

    01-31-1923 - Joanne Dru - Logan, WV - d. 9-10-1996
    actress: (Sister of Peter Marshall) "Lux Radio Theatre"
    04-01-1923 - Bobby Jordan - NYC - d. 9-10-1965
    actor: (Dead End Kids) "Texaco Star Playhouse"; "Wheatenaville Sketches"
    08-06-1881 - Leo Carrillo - Los Angeles, CA - d. 9-10-1961
    actor: Pedro "Grapevine Rancho"
    10-02-1914 - Charles Drake - Bayside, NYC - d. 9-10-1994
    actor: "Lux Radio Theatre"; "Screen Director"s Playhouse"
    12-09-1905 - Dalton Trumbo - Montrose, CO - d. 9-10-1976
    writer: (member of infamous Hollywood Ten); "Arch Obler"s Plays"

    Ron Sayles
    Milwaukee, Wisconsin
    Hometown of [removed] Kaltenborn and Jay Jostyn

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 13:05:17 -0400
    From: "Michael Ogden" <michaelo67@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Re: GWTW on radio

    Ron Sayles commented on the fact that GONE WITH THE WIND was never done on
    radio. The David Goldin radio index ([removed]) does list a
    surviving GWTW audition disc from 1940. The entry reads as follows:

    Gone With The Wind. August 16, 1940. "The Barbecue and Ball At Twelve Oaks".
    Sponsored by: Vicks Vapo-Rub, Vicks Va-tro-nol. Episode #1, audition. War is
    declared. Actors aren't identified, but performances are good. Includes a
    sales message to prospective sponsor, Vicks. The actors aren't identified,
    but they are not from the cast of the film. Despite the date above, the
    announcer describes the film as "soon to be released."  27:32.

    Mike Ogden

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 13:18:21 -0400
    From: "Martin Grams, Jr." <mmargrajr@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Gone with the Wind

    Ron Sayles asked:
    To the best of my knowledge there was never a radio program based on the
    movie
    "Gone with the Wind." Is the because of contractual problems or because
    maybe
    it was just to unwieldy?

    To the best of my knowledge, GONE WITH THE WIND was one of the few Hollywood
    motion pictures that was NEVER adapted for a radio broadcast.  There were
    plenty of radio hype about the movie, many for publicity purposes, and in
    New York City, when the film had it's NY premiere, there were some radio
    stations that offered special broadcasts with interviews with the stars and
    such.  The reason why GONE WITH THE WIND was never broadcast over the radio
    is not 100% known, but it's believed that David O. Selznick, the producer of
    the movie who owned all screen and broadcast rights, nevergranted permission
    to radio producers because he felt it would hurt the sales of box office
    receipts.  Remember that GONE WITH THE WIND was the best-selling book
    (according to pre-mature sales records) in the late thirties and the movie
    going audience in the later thirties was just dying to see the movie version
    - so obviously Selznick was right in one aspect - feature a radio broadcast
    that anyone could tune into and the few that could barely afford the cost of
    a movie ticket would route not to go see the movie.  During the forties,
    Selznick was more open to allowing the movies he produced to be dramatized
    on other radio programs.  Rebecca was one he cashed in highly, but a year
    before Alfred Hitchcock began directing the motion picture version, Selznick
    did license the broadcast rights to Orson Welles for a brief time for THE
    CAMPBELL PLAYHOUSE, supposedly to hear how Welles would adapt the novel and
    solve certain plot problems Selznick was unable to figure into the film
    script.
    Martin

    Incidentally, I don't think there was an "unwieldy" reason, just financial
    reasons. Disney's SONG OF THE SOUTH was dramatized on radio quite a number
    of times regardless of the fact that the movie is still regarded "racist."
    (Course, there is more slavery depicted in GONE WITH THE WIND than SONG OF
    THE SOUTH - go figure.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 14:17:14 -0400
    From: "Andrew Godfrey" <niteowl049@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Ending of OTR

      Would like to know at what point it became evident that television would
    overtake old time radio and that OTR slowly began to fade out of picture
    .....and what it was like when shows had to cut back on budgets by
    shortening shows and removing orchestras from shows in the last years of OTR
    as we knew [removed] only 14 on September 30, 1962 so wasn't old enough to
    really comprehend what was going in the last days of OTR.
    Andrew Godfrey

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 15:50:17 -0400
    From: ROB CHATLIN <rchatlin@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  WXYIE Wonderland

    Hi all,
    I'm looking for a copy of this book,
    if anyone knows where I might find one,
    it would be greatly apprecaited.
    I have an extra copy of the Rothel Lone Ranger book
    if anyone needs that one.

    thanks,
    rob

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 16:43:55 -0400
    From: Michael Henry <mlhenry@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Howard Blue to Speak on WORDS AT WAR

    For those interested in the role that radio played during World War II,
    Howard Blue will be speaking about his book WORDS AT  WAR (Scarecrow
    Press, 2002) at the September 12, 2003 meeting of the Metropolitan
    Washington Old Time Radio Club. The meeting starts at 7:30pm and is held
    at the Trinity Episcopal Church at 2217 Columbia Pike in Arlington, VA.
    Admission is FREE.

    For more information about WORDS AT WAR, go to
    [removed]

    For information about the Metropolitan Washington Old Time Radio Club,
    go to:
    [removed]

    -Michael Henry, Program Chairman
    Metropolitan Washington Old Time Radio Club

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 18:43:27 -0400
    From: "John W. Matthews" <glowingdial1@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  The Streaming Glowing Dial

    Hi folks, just another lowly self-promoting plug here, but one I'm very
    proud of.  The Glowing Dial has just become part of Jerry Haendiges' Olde
    Tyme Radio Network!  Our first new episode, which premiered on my site on
    9-1-2003, just went up on his site
    [removed] .  It is available there as
    streaming audio.  Hope you all get a chance to listen!
    See you on the radio!
    John W. Matthews
    The Glowing Dial Page
    [removed]

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 18:54:30 -0400
    From: "Kris Stone" <anaheim47@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  The Joy Boys

    The following article appeared in TV Radio Mirror, October 1964.

    They are the "Joy Boys" of [removed] watch them running to and [removed] Willard
    Scott and Ed Walker, otherwise known as the "Joy Boys," conduct their
    program every weekday evening on WRC in Washington DC. With skits and
    satire, they present the silly side of life to their listeners. Together,
    they have developed a full repertoire of characters -- "The Sod Buster,"
    "The Yellow Ghost" and "Miss Janitor."

    Not only do the "Boys" work together, they each have their own programs.
    Willard Scott assumes the title of "Mr. Music" on his mid-morning WRC show.
    He also does a children's program, "Bozo the Clown." Willard's favorite
    childhood game was "playing radio." It paid off.

    Scott's partner, Ed Walker, has proven himself so popular on WRC that they
    won't let him go home. It's almost impossible to believe that Ed is totally
    blind. In addition to his daily "Joy Boys" bout, he also hosts "Granddad's
    Record Shop" and "Time for Dreams." They leave him with little time to
    dream, but that's [removed] in his book. "Whenever I get a free fifteen
    minutes, I usually blow the whole quarter-hour trying to figure out where I
    got them from."

    His most devoted fans are "my mother, my wife and my two kids." His other
    fans are always checking up on him. One day he met a doubting fan in one of
    his sponsors' restaurants. it was a good thing he did! "I came to see if you
    really ate in this place, like you say you do on the radio," said the
    suspicious fan.

    Ed and wife Nancy have a home which resembles "a small, unpaid-for Rambler."
    Last Christmas, Ed bought Nancy an electric lawn mower. Nancy gave Ed a den,
    which she now uses herself, and they bought their youngest daughter, age
    two, a refrigerator. "Next year," exclaimed Ed grandly, "she gets a
    toaster."

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 18:56:13 -0400
    From: Ed Kindred <kindred@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Muffin Face

    Thanks to Sean Dougherty bringing up the obit on Giselle McKenzie. It sent
    me scrambling to see if it was really true that
    I remembered a knee slapping ditty ala duo with Muffin Face and Helen
    O'connell when they were about 25 and 31
    respectively. Shor nuff, "Water Can't Quench the Fire of Love" is still
    available on a CD of Helen O'Connell's biggest hits.
    I really enjoyed that piece when I wuz 15. I wonder if I would today 50+
    years and maybe some added maturity (don't count
    on it) later.  In December 1958 (thanks IMDB) I saw her and Jack Benny
    spoofing it up on his show. I kept hoping he would
    play something seriously. Are You Kidding?!?!!!!
    Switching to Jack my late uncle Patrick, a violinist told me that despite
    all of the shenanigans Jack Benny could do a lot of things
    technically that many violinist would like to do.  I did however see
    Monsieur Benet and  Isaac Stern play a Bach concerto for
    two violins in a serious vein. I could hear why Jack had earned the title
    of the Van Gogh of the violin. He had the fingers but not
    quite the ear. This is not meant to be a criticism of Jack Benny as his
    willingness to play brought Millions to charitable organizations.
    I am so grateful that because of recordings he has not really left us.
    Ed Kindred

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 23:02:38 -0400
    From: Lilah60@[removed]
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  The JOY of the Joy Boys
    X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative
    X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain

    If you've ever lived in metropolitan [removed] you've heard about the Joy Boys,
    the zaniest radio
    duo bred in these parts, who were heard on Washington's WRC from 1955 to 1972
     .Willard Scott, TV's Bozo the clown, original Ronald MacDonald, and also
    long-time weatherman
    on NBC's Today show, now lives and writes on his farm in western Virginia.

    Ed Walker, long-time radio announcer, disc jockey, and general raconteur,
    hosts a great four-hour old-time radio show here on Sunday nights. I would
    not miss
    it for anything; I know I can count on hearing a great Gunsmoke ep at eight
    each Sunday.
    You can hear Ed's show at the American University's "WAMU" website archives
    at [removed]. The Ed Walker page there also promotes our Metropolitan
    Washington
    Old-Time Radio Club (MWOTRC) meetings held in Arlington VA once a month.

    You can listen to Joy Boy music and skits at [removed].

    Enjoy!

    Claire Connelly
    Yours from below the Beltway, Fairfax County VA

      *** This message was altered by the server, and may not appear ***
      ***                  as the sender intended.                   ***

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 23:02:53 -0400
    From: Sean Dougherty <seandd@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  NYT Giselle MacKenzie Obituary

    The New York Times weighs in with a solid obituary for Giselle MacKenzie in
    today's edition.

    Sean Dougherty
    SeanDD@[removed]

    <[removed];en=f
    481a137cd741c73&ei=5062&partner=GOOGLE>

    --------------------------------
    End of [removed] Digest V2003 Issue #339
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