Subject: [removed] Digest V2002 #192
From: "OldRadio Mailing Lists" <[removed]@[removed];
Date: 5/30/2002 3:08 PM

To: <[removed]@[removed];

    ------------------------------

                                The Old-Time Radio Digest!
                                  Volume 2002 : Issue 192
                             A Part of the [removed]!
                                     ISSN: 1533-9289

                                     Today's Topics:

      Re: Tom Kirby asks about Archie       [ hal stone <dualxtwo@[removed]; ]
      Dick Cavett Show                      [ JIMWMQT@[removed] ]
      Re: Desi/Lucy TV filming move         [ sfx-meow@[removed] (Ray Erlenborn) ]
      RE: Sony Mini-Disc                    [ Habegger <amej@[removed]; ]
      using old OTR advertised products     [ Eric J Cooper <ejcooper2002@[removed] ]
      "Sunshine Sue" Workman                [ Richard Pratz <[removed]@[removed]; ]
      RE: Sony Mini-Disc, revisited         [ Habegger <amej@[removed]; ]
      making shows available.               [ Eric J Cooper <ejcooper2002@[removed] ]
      Re: The Honeymooners (Anothe rPossib  [ otrdsiegel@[removed] ]
      Re: Chicago Phil Lord                 [ Elizabeth McLeod <lizmcl@[removed] ]
      Re: Sony Mini-Disc                    [ Jim Stephenson <jestephenson@[removed] ]
      Honeymooners aside                    [ "joe@[removed]" <sergei01@earthli ]
      The Price of OTR                      [ gad4@[removed] ]
      Something [removed]                      [ "Ryan Hall" <pezman419@[removed]; ]
      Re: Today in Radio History - May 29t  [ "Dave Walter" <fredallenfan@hotmail ]
      Economics of Preservation             [ Christopher Werner <cwerner@globalc ]
      SPERDVAC's guest speaker to be Bob M  [ "B. J. Watkins" <kinseyfan@hotmail. ]

    ------------------------------

    Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 10:14:09 -0400
    From: hal stone <dualxtwo@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Re: Tom Kirby asks about Archie

    Tom asks what time Archie was on the air.

>     Anyway, my grandmother really enjoyed the show, but she had never heard of
>     it. I'm not sure what time it played. It could have been on against
>     something she did listen to, or maybe it was on when she wasn't home.
>     Does anyone know what time the show would have been aired in the
>     Washington, DC area?

    I suppose I should know the answer to that question. (At [removed] and easy
    one that won't tax my memory too much).

    "Archie" was basically considered a Kid's show, so unless your grandma was a
    youngster in the mid '40's and early 50's, it's not likely that she would
    tune in on Saturday Mornings at 10:30 AM. That's when it was broadcast in
    the Washington DC area (Eastern time zone) over the NBC network.

    It was in that time slot for most of it's long run on NBC, except for a 13
    week period on Wed. evenings (7:30 PM I think) as the summer replacement for
    the Kraft sponsored "Great Gildersleeve".

    If your Grandmother never heard the show, maybe she was hooked on CBS's
    "Let's Pretend" which also was on the air Saturdays mornings.

>     Note: I was born in 1957, so I missed the golden age of radio.

    Tsk! tsk! I consider that child abuse.

>     My dad was born in 1931, which was apparently a good year for comedians.

    I'd have to agree, Tom, seeing how I was also born in 1931. :)

    Glad you enjoyed listening to the program. And it might well have been
    Arnold Stang who played the Drugstore clerk. We used Arnold on the show
    often enough. And as it turned out, Arnold took my place playing "Jughead"
    for about a year when I was sent overseas with the Air Force during the
    Korean War.

    Keep listening, and keep posting. Regards

    Hal(Harlan)Stone
    "Jughead"

    ------------------------------

    Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 10:14:16 -0400
    From: JIMWMQT@[removed]
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Dick Cavett Show
    X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative
    X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain

    Hey Evan:

    That Dick Cavett OTR special you're thinking of was actually an episode of an
    old HBO series called "Remember When".  It aired in the early 80's, I think,
    and was rebroadcast later on that decade, when I remember seeing it (and, I
    think, actually taping it, although it no longer seems to be around).  It was
    a series in which, through the magic of primitive digital technology, Cavett
    would "walk" through pictures of events from days gone by.

    I saw the show before I had an interest in OTR.  Like you, what I wouldn't
    give to see it again now, when I know what I [removed]

    Jim Koski

      *** This message was altered by the server, and may not appear ***
      ***                  as the sender intended.                   ***

    ------------------------------

    Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 10:41:54 -0400
    From: sfx-meow@[removed] (Ray Erlenborn)
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Re: Desi/Lucy TV filming move

    I believe the DL radio show was "My Favorite Husband"! Yes, the DL duo
    also took two more KNX personnel with them to the studio on Gower and
    Melrose. My buddy, Sterling Tracy who was Assistant Director on their
    KNX show and Charlie Douglas who decided to freelance his famous
    Audience Reaction Laugh and Applause machine. This move made him
    practically the Czar of the laugh track business in Television. He sent
    his machine "Clones" and crews out to service TV shows everywhere.
    In the 60's I adapted the McKenzie 5 channel (loop/casette) playback
    machine,
    adding foot peddles for continuous laugh and applause tracks to lengthen
    the
    "natural" laughs I punched up on the keyboard. In so doing I nudged the
    "laugh Czar" out of TV City and began by sweetening "The Red Skelton
    Show"
    followed by the others at the "City".
    (The other networks soon "Cloned" their own adapted McKenzie machines.
    "Red" was able to "milk" some pretty big laughs from his audiences. The
    recorded "loops" created were "lifted" from his own previous
    performances.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 11:26:48 -0400
    From: Habegger <amej@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  RE: Sony Mini-Disc

    Hi David,

    Do not buy a Mini-Disc Player/Recorder! I have two portable
    units and one system unit. They just collect dust.

    MP3 is the current way to go. Players get cheaper (and better)
    every day. Follow the current posts for units. Currently,
    Wal-Mart and Circuit City have good deals on system units from
    APEX. I have several "card" type portables and do not use them.
    Let someone else advise you on portables.

    I use MP3 CD's in my notebook computer. That's life!

    Good luck,

    Dick
    Anaheim

    ------------------------------

    Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 11:26:57 -0400
    From: Eric J Cooper <ejcooper2002@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  using old OTR advertised products

    I only use Maxwell House because of GOOD NEWS, GEORGE BURNS AND GRACIE
    ALLEN and FATHER KNOWS BEST. I use Pledge because it's made by Johnson's
    Wax. Alka Seltzer thanks to LUM 'N' ABNER. And probably others that I
    cannot think of at the moment.

    Eric Cooper

    ------------------------------

    Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 11:27:30 -0400
    From: Richard Pratz <[removed]@[removed];
    To: "OTR (Plain Text Only)" <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  "Sunshine Sue" Workman

    OTR reference books are a wonderful [removed], but not always. I
    own several (including Dunning) but none have been able to help me. So where
    better to turn than this digest? I'm frustrated trying to obtain bio
    material on "Sunshine Sue" Workman whose real name was Mary Arlene Higdon. I
    have a brief obit on her and because of one line, I'm intrigued. "Sunshine
    Sue" is touted in her obituary as being "the first woman radio show host in
    the [removed]"
    Can this be correct?  I believe she died (age 67) June 13, 1979 in Richmond,
    Virginia and was a country singer widely known in the 40's and 50's. If she
    was so "widely known" why can I find no mention of her in Dunning, [removed]
    Her obit says she was born in Keosauqua, Iowa and her "Old Dominion Barn
    Dance" program was broadcast on Saturday nights by WRVA in Richmond from
    1946 to 1957 and frequently heard over CBS' "Country Side Show."
    Her program is said to have discovered or given a boost to such country
    singers as the Carter Sisters, Grandpa Jones, Chet Atkins, "Crazy" Joe
    Maphis and Mary Klick.

    Does ANYONE know "Sunshine Sue's" birthdate and birth place, more bio
    information or know where I might obtain a picture of her?

    Rich

    ------------------------------

    Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 11:31:43 -0400
    From: Habegger <amej@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  RE:  Sony Mini-Disc, revisited

    David, I forgot to mention the main problems with Mini-Discs:

     1. Compression routine that does not copy well.
     2. Slow speed copy rates; 1X (normal) some, higher.
     3. Short recording times.

    Please consider MP3!

    If you have to go with a small portable unit, consider a Rio,
    or another brand with plug-in memory.

    Dick
    Anaheim

    ------------------------------

    Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 11:32:11 -0400
    From: Eric J Cooper <ejcooper2002@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  making shows available.

    My comments in answer to Harlan Zinck. I concede that those of us who
    have downloaded shows from newsgruoups (and I must say here that I have
    rarely if ever shared my MP3 collection except face to face with a few
    friends--I do NOT sell shows on EBay) might not be able to afford them
    any other way, certainly not for $275 per show. There is something to be
    said for folks like you and others who take time and effort and spend
    money to preserve OTR. I salute you. But on the other hand there are a
    lot more people who have been able to enjoy OTR thanks to wide
    circulation via the internet, Media Bay , Barnes and Noble etc., for all
    the good or evil those methods of circulation bring with them . OTR is
    alive for a lot of people like me because of wide, low cost circulation
    by whatever means.

    Eric Cooper

    ------------------------------

    Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 11:32:28 -0400
    From: otrdsiegel@[removed]
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Re: The Honeymooners (Anothe rPossibility)

      Back in the 1930's(or perhaps early 1940's) Mr. and Mrs. Eddie Albert (of
    film fame) did a  radio comedy skit called (I believe) THE HONEYMOONERS.
       That program had NO relationship to the later Gleason TV show. It does,
    however exist on audio and I have two orthree episodes.
       Eddies wife at the time was GRACE and not MARGO.

       Dave S.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 12:17:45 -0400
    From: Elizabeth McLeod <lizmcl@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Re: Chicago Phil Lord

    On 5/30/02 10:23 AM OldRadio Mailing Lists wrote:

>     Years later, when I'd mention having known Phil Lord, I always had to
>     qualify it by saying, "no, not Phillips H. Lord". But I know nothing
>     specific about his work in Chicago radio. Is it possible you were referring
>     to the man who was so nice to a young kid so many years ago. The man who in
>     no small way was responsible for my becoming a radio actor?

    The Phil Lord I was talking about was the "New York" version, who
    generally used "Phillips H. Lord" to avoid confusion with the Chicago
    "Phil Lord," who was a character actor of considerable activity during
    the thirties and early forties. However, Phillips Lord was usually
    referred to informally as "Phil," and is sometimes referred to as such in
    the trade press. As a result their credits are sometimes confused.

    The "Philip" Lord you encountered in Chicago played character roles in a
    long line of Chicago-based programs, including "The Chicago Theatre of
    the Air," "Grand Hotel," "The Guiding Light," "The Story of Mary Marlin,"
    and "Woman in White." He was generally typed as a "kindly old grandpa"
    figure. One of his more interesting credits is an obscure early-forties
    WGN-based sitcom called "The Great Gunns," in which he played the
    patriarch of a family of temperamental stage actors. This series
    supposedly devoted much of its run to satirizing the pretentiousness of
    "modern theatah," and was apparently quite popular with actors and
    critics as a sort of an inside joke on the business (It sounds a lot like
    a trial run for "The Magnificent Montague" of a decade later.)

    "Phillips H. Lord" was of course a producer-actor of even greater renown.
    He pretty much cornered the market on Maine dialect programs in the
    thirties, beginning with "Sunday Evening at Seth Parker's" and continuing
    thru "The Stebbins Boys," "Uncle Abe and David," and "Country Doctor."
    Then when a scandal broke in 1935 claiming that there was a great deal of
    boozing, whooping-it-up, and general licentiousness going on during the
    ill-fated round-the-world cruise of his private clipper ship, the "Seth
    Parker," Lord dropped his rural characterizations and began producing
    shows like "Gangbusters," the "Phillip Morris Thrill Program," and "We
    The People." He also owned a stake in "Mr. District Attorney."

    Elizabeth

    ------------------------------

    Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 12:29:37 -0400
    From: Jim Stephenson <jestephenson@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Re: Sony Mini-Disc

    David asked:

>     Does anyone here
>     use one and how does it handle the lower bit rate and sample rate for
>     some OTR shows?

    Mini Discs are equivalent to audio cassettes; that is, sounds are
    recorded onto a physical medium which can be removed, archived, erased,
    etc. They'll play *anything* regardless of bit and sample rates.

    I use an older model of MD player/recorder, and have for many years. The
    newer models digitally download and convert mp3 files for use, and in
    LP4 mode can fit over 5 hours worth of sound on a single MD--perfect for
    OTR. In almost every respect, mini discs are superior to standard MP3
    players.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 14:01:54 -0400
    From: "joe@[removed]" <sergei01@[removed];
    To: "OTR List" <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Honeymooners aside

    In the earlier releases of the NBC Thesaurus transcription series, there
    were some items performed by the Honeymooners, not related to the TV series
    of the early 50s. Early Thes would have been middle 30s.

    Joe Salerno

    ------------------------------

    Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 14:26:19 -0400
    From: gad4@[removed]
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  The Price of OTR

    Harlon writes,

>     Don't get me wrong, here. There are a great many wonderful, trustworthy
>     people who enjoy old time radio and I'm all for anything that perpetuates
>     further interest in the shows. But the next time you're frustrated to hear
>     of some rarity that isn't available, consider the above scenario and maybe
>     you'll understand why so many shows are not - and may never be - available
>     for all of us to enjoy.

    Hates to get into such a controversial subject.

    Looking at Harlan's letter, I get the impression he is saying that free otr
    is bad because things cost so much to get out.

    In all fairness to Harlan, while Im sure that is at the times the case, (and
    Ive always said that those dealers who get new material out should be
    supported financially), that is not always the case.

    About a year ago, there was a collection of reels on ebay.  I was planning
    on buying the collection for the purpose of having the collection shared
    freely with others. I was bid up by an mp3 DEALER. When it started to
    approach 1,000, I asked some fellow collectors to chip in. Some offered to
    this, but it got to the point, that as a collector, I couldnt afford to
    continue. Someone I knew who had more money went over 2,000 and was about to
    win them to share with others.  At the very last 10 seconds, Jerry H
    (another dealer) bid higher and the fellow didnt have a chance to reply.

    Keep in mind, Im not knocking anyone. Everyone has a right to bid for
    whatever they want whenever they want. I also believe that dealers serve a
    valuable purpose. That when the cost to get something out is more than
    collectors can pay, they can serve a valuable purpose and should be
    supported for their work.  Also there are MANY out there who prefer to buy
    rather than trade. Dealers fill a major need for those who dont want to
    spend their time in front of a computer downloading and want to buy things.

    But I guess the point that Im trying to make is another scenerio. That at
    times, some of the higher prices are the results of dealers and the few
    collectors who want to keep things to themselves, rather than those who want
    others to enjoy the programs.  When people are bidding with the concept that
    eveyone can enjoy it, there's no sense for bidding to go crazy on a couple
    shows.  I dont think its fair to blame the trader for them.

    Thanks for letting me ramble a little.

    George

    ------------------------------

    Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 14:47:06 -0400
    From: "Ryan Hall" <pezman419@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Something [removed]

    Well, I think the list is getting into the early summer ho-hum, and I
    thought I'd try to liven it up a bit by asking a [removed] this can
    be a new top 5 or top 10 list that otr fans on the list can banter about for
    a while. Who you think had the most dynamic or distinctive radio voice? I
    have always been interested in actors and actresses that just had the tone
    of voice (and maybe its not really tone but diction or on air "presence")
    that when you heard him or her, you just sort of went [removed] a great
    voice. I guess we might have to break this down into male and female voices.
    As for myself, I always thought Orson Welles had a great voice that I just
    liked to listen to, as did Basil Rathbone. Those are my two person favorite
    voices.
    Just something to think [removed]

    ------------------------------

    Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 15:07:55 -0400
    From: "Dave Walter" <fredallenfan@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Re: Today in Radio History - May 29th

    Christopher Werner <cwerner@[removed]; writes:

>     Ok, so it's not specifically 'Radio' but it does involve a famous radio
>     [removed]

>     This afternoon 50 years ago today - May 29, 1942 - Bing Crosby walked into
>     the Decca recording studios and recorded "White Christmas", a selection

    >from his upcoming movie 'Holiday'. The production company thought the

>     public might like the song for the coming season. They did.

    Of course, the actual title of the film was "Holiday Inn."

    One interesting note about the recording is that, according to music
    historian and radio personality Barry Hansen ([removed] Dr. Demento), another
    famous radio personality is listed on the union personnel papers as being
    the drummer on the session (although you can't hear any drums on the
    recording itself): Spike Jones.

    Can any of the Crosby and/or Jones fans on the digest list fill us in on
    whether there were other tunes cut at the same session that Spike indeed
    appears on, or might this have been a case of ghost payrolling?

    ------------------------------

    Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 15:21:12 -0400
    From: Christopher Werner <cwerner@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Economics of Preservation

    Harlan made some very good points about the economic considerations of
    obtaining and producing OTR programs that may be pirated and provided for
    free through other sources. This is the kind of dilemma that technology
    (especially the Internet) has posed for many years. It is also at the heart
    of copyright law. Unfortunately in a hobby that loves to re-interpret
    copyrights to remove the guilt of production and a little income it becomes
    very difficult to justify anything other than the 'buy and hold' strategy.

    For the good of mankind:

    Last year I had a similar dilemma that I think fits the same mold here. I
    was doing some research on Boston Blackie pre-radio publications and came
    across some of the outstanding periodicals of the early part of the
    century, Red Book, American, and Harper's Magazines. If any of you have
    ever watched prices on eBay of Harper's Magazine you will appreciate the
    fact that lithographs *torn* from old Harper's Magazines sell for $[removed]
    depending on what historic scene is for sale. The 6 month bound volumes
    regularly sell for around $50 each when they are available. Ok, so I placed
    a bid on some of the bound volumes and one in particular mentioned that
    they "have several other volumes available, please inquire". I did and they
    had come across a collection of Harpers bound volumes from 1851 (when it
    was first published) to 1901. The set was missing 3 volumes. Understand
    that these contain all of Mark Twain's early publications, memoirs from
    soldiers during and after the Civil War, Spanish-American war history, etc.
    They are major history resources.

    My thoughts were "this is too important to just be in a library or private
    collection out there. The contents of all these volumes should be published
    on the Internet then every scholar, every student could have access to this
    information."

    Noble thoughts. I negotiated with the owner to purchase the entire lot (97
    volumes) for $[removed] each. Shipping would cost another $200 (gotta love
    paper). My family reminded me of all the oustanding bills I had yet to pay
    and I also considered the effect of spending 10 years of my life scanning
    and converting printed documents to electronic form. Was it worth it? I
    decided to remain married. But the real issue is cost - whether time (in my
    case) or money (in Harlan's case). You do all this work for the good of
    mankind and what do you get in return? Yes, you may be admired and revered
    by your fellow historians by the wonderful thing you did for all those
    schools. But 10 years is a long time (ask anyone who has written a major
    research book). And in a similar light to Harlan's example, the minute the
    website would become available the value of all the Harper's magazines
    would become minimal. Who would buy them if they could be obtained for
    FREE? Who pays the cost of converting paper (or sound) to electronic format
    (text or MP3)? Many have struggle with the economic models of Internet
    commerce, with millicent billing rates, with copy protection and use fees.

    Sadly, as Harlan said, there is a lot of incentive to just buy and hoard
    until the market settles and some more tangable method of protecting
    ownership/processing rights is created. There are some solutions out there,
    but they are priced for the big organizations (like ASCAP or BMI) and not
    for the little publisher who just wants to protect what they have done.

    By the way, I did contact Harpers Magazine and attempt to secure permission
    to do this. Noone replied to my e-mails. I think they are busy enough just
    publishing this months issue.

    Keep the faith!

    Chris Werner

    ------------------------------

    Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 15:21:29 -0400
    From: "B. J. Watkins" <kinseyfan@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  SPERDVAC's guest speaker to be Bob Mitchell

    The SPERDVAC guest for the June 8 meeting at noon in South Pasadena has been
    confirmed. It is BOB MITCHELL, musician, organist & choir director on radio,
    TV & movies(over 50!). He started as a kid organist for silent films in the
    mid-1920s, moved on to early [removed] radio on KHJ, KFI & other stations. He
    created & directed the famous Mitchell Boychoir which performed with Bing
    Crosby ("Going My Way") and Roy Rogers among others. He still provides organ
    accompaniment to film shows at Los Angeles's Silent Movie Theatre. He has
    many stories to tell! The meeting is free and open to the public. The
    address is the South Pasadena Public Library Community Room, 1100 El Centro
    in South Pasadena, CA.

    Hope to see you there!
    Barbara

    --------------------------------
    End of [removed] Digest V2002 Issue #192
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