------------------------------
The Old-Time Radio Digest!
Volume 2002 : Issue 237
A Part of the [removed]!
ISSN: 1533-9289
Today's Topics:
Snoop and Peep? [ "Ken Lanza" <klanza1@[removed]; ]
Who's on First? [ Birdwalk Farms <pheadoux@[removed]; ]
Carl Amari [ "A. Joseph Ross" <lawyer@attorneyro ]
Duke Ellington in Stereo [ George Aust <austhaus1@[removed] ]
WENDY WARREN/DOUGLAS EDWARDS [ HERITAGE4@[removed] ]
Today in radio history [ Joe Mackey <joemackey108@[removed] ]
Re: Long Playing [ Vntager8io@[removed] ]
Amari and Radio Spirits [ "Thomas Mason" <batz34@[removed] ]
Long Play Records and how to make mo [ leemunsick@[removed] ]
The Aldrich Family [ Jerry Bechtel <[removed]@[removed] ]
Thanks, and a new view of an "old" s [ "Ron Vickery" <RVICKERY@anchorwall. ]
Hoppy collectors [ "Garry D. Lewis" <glewis@[removed] ]
Ensemble [ "Walden Hughes" <hughes1@[removed]; ]
Harlan Stone [ Greg Przywara <gmprzywara@students. ]
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 21:33:41 -0400
From: "Ken Lanza" <klanza1@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: Snoop and Peep?
X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative
X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain
OTR Fans:
Anyone have info on "Snoop and Peep" an NBC
show circa 1932? Any Sherlockian connection?
regards,
Ken Lanza
*** This message was altered by the server, and may not appear ***
*** as the sender intended. ***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 22:48:28 -0400
From: Birdwalk Farms <pheadoux@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Who's on First?
In the immortal routine, "Who's on First?,
Have been told this was old routine on the borsht belt as a tailor shop.
Who does the cuffs, what handles the seams ........
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 11:05:35 -0400
From: "A. Joseph Ross" <lawyer@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Carl Amari
Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 11:51:48 -0400
From: "[removed] George" <yourstruly@[removed];
I understand that Carl Amari often reads these messages. Carl, if you are
reading this could you please let us know if you plan to get back into the
OTR business?
Huh? Is Carl Amari no longer in the OTR business? What happened while I was
looking the
other way?
--
A. Joseph Ross, [removed] [removed]
15 Court Square, Suite 210 lawyer@[removed]
Boston, MA 02108-2503 [removed]
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 11:05:44 -0400
From: George Aust <austhaus1@[removed];
To: OTR Digest <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: Duke Ellington in Stereo
Al Copeland asked for info on the Duke Ellington CD with stereo
recordings from 1932.
It was released on the "Natasha Imports Inc." label. [removed] Box 427
Margaretville, [removed]
It conststs of two medleys about 7 1/2 mins each. The first is "Mood
Indigo","Hot and Bothered", and "Creole Love Call". The 2nd medley has
"East St Louis Toodle-oo", Lots 'o Fingers", and the "Black and Tan
Fantasy". The rest of the CD (total of 65:52 mins.) is not in stereo but
is Duke Ellington and Ellington at his peak, so who cares. These are two
previously unissued radio broadcasts from 1940 and 1942 (unfortunately
no further date info is given)
In my opinion this a definite must have for big band collectors.
Incidentally there are also a couple of CD's out with the original Glenn
Miller band in Stereo [removed] were from Glenn's 20th Century Fox
picture "Sun Valley Serenade" and the stereo is put together from
recording's that were made for the purpose of balancing by the sound
engineer on the picture. Again there is only a few minutes of stereo but
there is an interesting promotional transcription for the movie made by
the band for radio station play in 1941. Additionally there is some are
a couple of unreleased tracks of songs from the same movie. This CD is
Called "The Original Glenn Miller Orchestra In True Stereo". Released on
Vipers Nest VN1-57. No address given. But these recordings were released
on another CD label at the same time. I don't recall the label right
now.
George Aust
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 11:06:06 -0400
From: HERITAGE4@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: WENDY WARREN/DOUGLAS EDWARDS
The order of items on WENDY WARREN & THE NEWS was as follows:
1. Headline News (top of the hour news from CBS)
2. "News Reports from 'The Women's World' "
3. New program ends - participants say goodbye - organ fills - Wendy'd daily
drama begins.
Tom Heathwood - Heritage Radio Theatre - [removed]
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 11:06:14 -0400
From: Joe Mackey <joemackey108@[removed];
To: otr-net <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: Today in radio history
From Those Were The Days --
1942 - The first broadcast of It Pays to Be Ignorant was aired on WOR
Radio and the Mutual Broadcasting System.
Joe
--
Visit my home page:
[removed]~[removed]
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 11:06:38 -0400
From: Vntager8io@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Re: Long Playing
Thanks very much to Prof. Biel for correcting me on the Edison Long-Playing
discs. I had read or heard somewhere that they ran at 36 rpm, but apparently
that isn't the case. I wonder if there ever was a 36-rpm disc released by
someone, or if I got that number by misreading a sloppily handwritten "30." I
suppose now I'm even more impressed by an 80-rpm 12" disc that will play 40
minutes! In any case, I apologize for my mistake and thanks to Prof. Biel for
correcting it.
Bryan Wright
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 11:06:44 -0400
From: "Thomas Mason" <batz34@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: Amari and Radio Spirits
I am a bit confused on time lines. When did Media Bay take over Radio
Spirits? I being a serial and comics fan, bought all the Superman/Batman,
Lone Ranger and Shadow radio shows I could through Radio Spirits. I liked
the fact that they were restored and attractively packaged although I felt
that they were overpriced. When I would tell many of my OTR friends what I
had purchased, they would fume at me and go into tirades against Mr. Amari
and Radio Spirits. They would tell me that he was ruining the hobby for fans
of the genre with his "buying out the rights" to many old radio series and
claiming exclusivity to them. I did not know of the animosity that was
building up in many of the OTR fans. When did Mr. Amari become unpopular
in the eyes of many OTR fans? I got a sense that this was even before Media
Bay took over.
I credit Mr. Amari for his upgrading of a lot of material that was almost
lost. He had a superior product, but then there were rumors of smaller OTR
dealers who were selling their wares getting warning letters from him,
advising them of possible lawsuits if they continued to sell their MP3 discs
and tapes containing material that was "his alone," even though the quality
of their product did not match his. I visited one site that was crusading
against him vehemently and soon found more. After awhile, you begin to
wonder what the real story was. Does anybody out there have the real story?
Tom Mason
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 11:25:21 -0400
From: leemunsick@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Long Play Records and how to make money
Thanks to our experts for the thread on Long Play records.
It is true that Mr. Edison's company came out with the first "LP" records
although, as has been mentioned, that symbol was a trademark of CRI now
Sony (sigh).
Actually, the first long Play record was a cylinder, when Edison moved from
his 2-minute cylinders to a 4-minute version, which also had the advantage
of being plastic, much tougher than the original, fragile "industrial soap"
cylinders.
On to the first DISC long play version, which as Mike Biel points out,
utilized the 80 RPM "Diamond Disc" format. These were actually called
"Edison Re-Creations" as well as "Long Playing Records", by the gang in
West Orange. Those bulky 1/4-inch records, many of which abruptly ended
their days as "skeetshoot" targets. They were very nearly unbreakable in
normal use, but not as target drones.
To gain public transition to their long play records, Edison introduced an
adaptor kit for the popular Edison "Laboratory Model" upright machines made
for the thick "Re-Creations". This included a special plug-in pickup head,
and an ingenious small gear-train and clutch to switch to and from
long-play, to be installed beneath the turntable.
There was a third item which may or may not have been part of the "LP"
system. I assume it was, since I have not seen 12" "Diamond Disc" records,
just 12" long-plays. This was a device used to position the tone-arm to
drop the stylus correctly at the start of the 10" and 12" records. Two
little buttons would be seen along the left edge of the mechanism chassis,
one marked 10 and the other 12. By pushing either one, an arm extended to
stop the swing of the tone-arm and horn assembly (all one device) at either
of the appropriate positions. While I imagine most Edison customers chose
to have these all devices professionally installed, anyone with mechanical
ability could do it. Even I have managed with no great difficulty!
Because of the extreme fine grove on the longer recordings, the stylus was
shaped like a football, to compensate for the change in tracking angle as
the tone arm was turned across the record by the worm gear below (unlike
"modern" recordings where the stylus is dragged across by the record groove
itself.
Theodore Edison was the man in charge of the development of all this, as he
was with the later, even shorter-lived electrical recordings. He told me
that each stylus had to be installed in the respective plug-in LP pickup
heads at just the correct angle. This was after an intensive manufacturing
process in which each stylus was "played" over and over on a special
turntable device with an abrasive groove which would form the stylus into
the football shape.
One could assume that this would limit the production of these styli,
curtailing the possibility of huge, rapid sales of the machines, and
therefore the recordings.
Ted Edison was faced with an even bigger problem, which turned out to be
insurmountable. These were spring-driven phonographs. All spring motors
have the phenomenon of "chugging". Springs wind up and unwind
unevenly. Edison developed and sold a special gear lubricant, a jelly-like
grease blended with graphite, to allow the layers of steel spring to slide
against each other as uniformly as possible. Nevertheless, as the spring
unwound, the layers would stick and then suddenly release, to slide further
along as the spring expanded its over-all dimension within its housing.
Does this sound like the classic explanation of tectonics? The sides of a
geological fault-line would build up pressure and then suddenly shift in a
rapid spurt,so one side could slide against the other? That movement is
described in layman's terms as "an earthquake"; the result can be rather
shocking. Even after-shocking.
The exact same thing happens within a spring motor. No matter how much
this shock is dampered, it is still present. It drove Ted Edison nuts,
because it would jump the stylus across those extremely fine
grooves. Young Edison simply could not find a practical way to isolate the
drive mounting from the turntable and tone-arm assembly. These two
problems defied mass production, the technical reason why the program was
abandoned.
There was an artistic reason as well. The vast majority of the long play
recordings issued were "transcriptions". As in other businesses, it was
easy to just use up existing stock! In other words, they were anthologies,
if you will, of a group of standard recordings already on hand, dubbed over
to the new format. As with any other medium, some quality was lost from
one generation to the next. If one listens carefully, one first hears the
soft surface noise of the "new" recording, and then the start of the old
one. Record collectors who are also heart surgeons will call this "dub-dub".
There was another problem with Edison recordings. With the advent of
strong competition from Victor and Columbia, record buyers found that most
of the artists and performances they wanted to hear were not on Edison
records. This was true in part to Mr. Edison's strange musical tastes, and
his parsimony in paying fees to artists, who deserted him heartily. He had
lost the market to the more aggressive record marketers.
Transcribing old material for their new media held true not only for
Edison, or today's non-digital video tapes, for instance. It was true with
the RCA "Program Transcriptions". That was the name given to their 33-1/3
RPM recordings, in the format which became successful only as the familiar
(to us at least) as "transcriptions" of radio programs. Generally, both
Edison and Victor planned quickly to move on to original recordings for
their long-play processes, but basically never got that far. They suffered
the same problem as the Edsel in the 1950s; people weren't willing to wait,
preferring to switch rather than to fight.
Record collectors from around 1950 will tell you that the same thing
happened with the "new" long play system: the first LP "albums" were
transcriptions of existing 78 RPM albums. Sound familiar? Pun
intended. Need we mention 8-track and CDs? All those "tombstone sleeve"
Columbia LPs!
What the Peter Goldmark crew at Columbia did do, was to
1) take the RCA speed,
2) merge it with a new, not-so-delicate "micro-groove" suggested by the
Edison experiment, and
3) plop the resulting record down on an electrically-driven turntable which
eliminated spring problems.
Actually, I think the RCA Victor innovation far more interesting, combining
the handy size and shape of their 45 rpm disc with an incredible
improvement in the record-changer. A long way from those early
monstrosities which wore out records, sliding them across chutes, flipping
them over, and banging them back down on the turntable. Alphabet slop: A,
MM, AM, et al.
Who would ever have thought in the "battle of the speeds" that the outcome
would be long works on 12" discs played at 33-1/3 RPM, and popular, shorter
works on not-quite 7" records running at 45 RPM?
Historically, this produces interesting incongruities. A young friend told
me some years ago that he was excited to have discovered a rare "miniature
LP" record! I regaled him with the brief attempt by Columbia to match the
Victor 45s with their own 7" LPs, complete with an analysis of the raised
radii molded into these light records, so they would not slip on the
turntable. He was totally puzzled. Turned out the rarity he had found was
a 10" LP! Then there are today's record sellers who insist on calling 78's
"vinyl", or all disc records "albums". Double sigh.
So Peter Goldmark had his day. Voila! The "modern long-playing
recording". Which would not play nearly as long at the earlier Edison
products, although a bit longer than the Victor entries.
Theodore Edison was on the right track. He had two problems. First, he
was a bit early for existing technology. Sort of like those pioneering
Cook Records, which produced Stereo LPs by having two tracks and a double
tone-arm, when all they had to do was combine the vertical and lateral cuts
of Edison and Berliner.
Second, the younger Edison had his father's prejudices blocking him. TAE
never did like the idea of disc recordings. And his early experiment with
electric phonograph motors convinced him that while they eliminated
winding, they would not produce a consistent speed, essential for sound
recording and playback.
When his "Balmoral" type electric cylinder phonograph proved impractical,
Edison re-introduced the more reliable spring motor, with great
fanfare! Ironic: the great electrician admitting the shortcomings of an
electrical device!
Those new spring operated phonographs have serial numbers which start with
the letters 'SM' . In his later experiments with spring-driven long-play
turntables, young Ted Edison perhaps pondered on other meanings for those
letters.
He wanted to move into electronics. He did a lot of work in secret, and
had to fight with his father, who reluctantly agreed to go into the radio
business. Again, by the time they started so to do, the market had already
been taken away from them by Victor in its new guise as RCA.
The senior Edison wasn't especially fond of producing "entertainment"
recordings from the start, seeing the phonograph essentially as a business
machine. In 1929 the firm went out of the record business except for
dictating equipment, although continuing to service its customers in that
business into the mid 1950s!
We have photographs of railroad gondola cars lined up on the siding next to
the loading docks at the Edison phonograph works. At first sight they look
like incoming coal cars. Actually, they are piled high with the "diamond
disc" records, probably to be taken to some northern New Jersey land
fill. Now THERE'S a business where Edison could have made money!
Long-time recipe for financial success: Buy a big hole and a hill. Fill
up the hole and sell off the hill. Top off the hole with the last remnant
of your hill, and you have nice even land for future development. I pass
that one with no charge to our younger readers. Live long and prosper!
Lee Munsick
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 11:31:59 -0400
From: Jerry Bechtel <[removed]@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: The Aldrich Family
I'm sure different people listen to their "favorite" shows for various
reasons. My reasons are not for art sake, not because the shows are well
produced, not because of an exquisite plot, not for some social
redeeming quality but purely because as a youngster, prior to tv I
remember sitting in front of the old radio with my family and listening
to THAT show. It brings back memories of times past. The Aldrich
Family, as did many others, contained no violence, no foul language, no
subversive plots but just situations that I found myself and my friends
in much of the time. The way the kids talked to and treated their
parents is still, to this day, not corny but refreshing. After listening
to the show several years ago with my children, they actually began to
say "yes sir" when they talked to me. "Shucks", "oh boy" and "golly"
where a big part of the vocabulary back then and that was well reflected
on the show. Family values were important. Yes, when you listen now,
especially if it's the first time you have ever heard The Aldrich
Family, you will probably think the show has no great story line and
serves no useful purpose. But it entertained us in the '40's and that
was pretty much the way life was then. Not bad! It's a shame there
aren't more of The Aldrich Family shows available to the public.
Thanks for [removed]
Jerry
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 11:44:55 -0400
From: "Ron Vickery" <RVICKERY@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: Thanks, and a new view of an "old" show
First, I would like to publicly thank Richard Carpenter for the Suspense
CD I won in his MP3 Giveaway. I greatly appreciate it, and look forward
to hearing the shows. Thank you, Richard!!
Secondly, I had an interesting, only slightly off-topic experience this
last weekend. I was cleaning in my garage, and came across a bag of
toys my wife had bought at a garage sale. The item on top was a Sesame
Street videotape of Songs and Games, which my 4-year old son Benjamin
immediately went inside to watch (so much for helping).
Ironically, the clips on the tape were from shows I remembered seeing
when I was little. There was one part where Cookie Monster was on a
game show with Guy Smiley. He had to get three items that rhymed with
rain, as part of a game show (cane, and chain, attached to a monster).
The third item he brought was a train, right through the studio wall.
As all hell broke loose, the engineer came in and announced he was
"leaving on track 3 for Anaheim, <big monster growl>, and Cucamonga." I
immediately thought of Jack Benny. My question is this: Did Sesame
Street frequently use OTR references such as this on their earlier
shows?
Ron
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 11:46:27 -0400
From: "Garry D. Lewis" <glewis@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: Hoppy collectors
as a follow-up to my post to OTV, I found this site as all things
Hop-a-long Cassidy- videos, radio programs, t-shirts, ect.
[removed]
--
Remember: for every silver lining, there is a cloud!
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 14:49:22 -0400
From: "Walden Hughes" <hughes1@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: Ensemble
I would like to nominate two more show to the grate ensemble cast radio
shows. First I Love A Mystery. I believe the New York cast was out
standing, and Carlton E. Morse writing is hard to beat. I also believe that
the Great Gildersleives show is a wonder ensemble cast and has wonderful
personalities. I am planning to have Shirley Mitchell soon as a guest on
Yesterday USA to talk about that show and other when her schedule is free.
Take care,
Walden
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 15:51:15 -0400
From: Greg Przywara <gmprzywara@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Harlan Stone
If Harlan Stone, the voice of Jughead on Archie Andrews is still in contact
with some of the members of this newsgroup would you please see that he
gets this message from my 10-year-old sister. Thanks.
Dear [removed],
I think that when you played Jughead it was hilarious! Do you know if the
actor who played Archie Andrews is still alive? Did you ever see Bergen and
McCarthy in person? Did you like the actress who played Veronica?
Sincerely,
Charlotte
[ADMINISTRIVIA: He's around, but he's getting ready for the REPS con, so he
may not answer until he gets back. --cfs3]
--------------------------------
End of [removed] Digest V2002 Issue #237
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