Subject: [removed] Digest V2004 #230
From: <[removed]@[removed]>
Date: 7/13/2004 4:07 PM

To: <[removed]@[removed];

    ------------------------------

                                The Old-Time Radio Digest!
                                  Volume 2004 : Issue 230
                             A Part of the [removed]!
                                 [removed]
                                     ISSN: 1533-9289

                                     Today's Topics:

      Stan Freberg Summer Show/Freberg Und  [ "Gary Dixon" <argy@[removed]; ]
      Now and then I need a Rambler         [ David Phaneuf <david_phaneuf@yahoo. ]
      CD TO DVD                             [ "mike kerezman" <PHILIPMARLOWE@peop ]
      Kitty's Employer                      [ "mike kerezman" <PHILIPMARLOWE@peop ]
      Kitty was a prostitute                [ "Garry Lewis" <glewis@[removed] ]
      Page droppers                         [ <otrbuff@[removed]; ]
      Re: Phil Harris                       [ "Brian L Bedsworth" <az2pa@[removed]; ]
      Re: Page Dropping                     [ "MICHAEL BIEL" <mbiel@[removed]; ]
      Gunsmoke Revisionism                  [ "mike kerezman" <PHILIPMARLOWE@peop ]
      7-14 births/deaths                    [ Ron Sayles <bogusotr@[removed]; ]
      Any Game Shows                        [ "kclarke5@[removed]" <kclarke5@juno. ]
      Radio Spirits boxed sets for sale     [ howard blue <khovard@[removed]; ]
      Uncle Dave Macon Cuts from the NBC "  [ Udmacon@[removed] ]

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 15:12:20 -0400
    From: "Gary Dixon" <argy@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Stan Freberg Summer Show/Freberg Underground LP
    X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative
    X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain

    It's always great to read a post about Stan Freberg and I wanted to add just a
    couple comments about the Summer (1957) radio show and the LP that came out
    later.

    Stan made it no secret that he was frustrated by the lack of advertisers for
    his CBS Summer Series (which actually ran into the end of September).  There
    were several references to the fact that his half-hour could use a
    [removed] was why Show #13 and #14 referenced advertising so heavily.
    ["Gray Flannel Hat Full of Teenage Werewolves" immediately comes to mind].

    In [removed] released his "FREBERG UNDERGROUND" [removed] was intended as a
    series of "pay radio broadcasts!"  In other [removed] would have to
    'go into the record store and buy it!'  [removed] was only one
    [removed] the "pay radio" concept never caught on.

    One of Stan's many wonderful qualities is his ability to let a listener use
    his (or her) imagination.  Listen to the 15 CBS Summer Shows, the albums (many
    of which are on CD), and even some of Stan's radio spots ("We get along very
    well [removed]!").  All of these are wonderful examples of a man who
    understands that radio is still "theatre of the mind!"

    I just hope Stan will have enough time to complete the sequel to his first
    [removed] release the 3rd CD in the "UNITED STATES OF AMERICA" series?  His
    talents are awesome.

      *** This message was altered by the server, and may not appear ***
      ***                  as the sender intended.                   ***

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 15:13:23 -0400
    From: David Phaneuf <david_phaneuf@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Now and then I need a Rambler

    Gonna do a bit of rambling here. As a preacher I'm
    tired of putting in logical consistent order, so
    please forgive me for my disjointed, unorganized post
    here! :)

    The name of the saloon in Gunsmoke:  Alafraganza
    (golly, is that the correct spelling even?)  What kind
    of a name is that? what does it mean? And why in the
    world would a show's writers and/or producers come up
    with such a unorthodox name as that? (Long Branch and
    Texas Trail are much better names IMHO, but
    Alafraganza? C'[removed] where did that come from?)

    --0--

    Mention was made in Lee Munsick's post the other day
    about Arthur Godfrey's plane being presented to him by
    none other than Eddie Rickenbacker himself.  Reminded
    me that in my first church, one of my elderly members,
    who died not long after my coming to the church, was
    Dan Ault, Eddie Rickenbacker's aviation mechanic in
    WWI.  You have no idea how many times I've kicked
    myself for passing up an opportunity to pick ol' Dan's
    memories.

    --0--

    Something that has always stumped me is just how much
    actual audience did OTR really have?  I've heard our
    friend Hal Stone talk about the Saturday audience of
    kids at broadcast sessions of Archie, but how common
    were live audiences in OTR land?  I assume shows such
    as Benny and Marx, Crosby and Allen, and other such
    variety shows were before live audience.  What about
    other shows?

    Related to that is the nature of the [removed] how
    much was actually "acted out" as in stage plays and
    such, and how much was merely standing in front of the
    microphone, reading the script, dropping or not
    dropping (as the case may be) of the scripts on the
    floor, with the Sound FX guys working their wonders of
    imagination?

    All I have to go on are early TV shows of Benny,
    Skelton, et al. --  which definitely had skits and
    acted out portions, not just in front of microphone
    readings -- how reflective of real OTR were these
    early TV?

    And regarding the page dropping [removed] I'm a firm
    believer that many "urban legends, and their like"
    have some basis in reality.  I imagine that someone,
    somewhere did this, and someone picked up on it and
    reported it.  Undoubtedly, the retelling became more
    dramatic with time, more exaggerated, I'm sure.  But
    could it be that some live-audience programs utilized
    the page dropping as "dramatic flair"?  Or was it just
    the dramatic flair of OTR's history tellers?

    --0--

    Like I said, "ramblings"?  Thanks for indulging me.

    Oh, BTW, to my friend Don [removed] I owe you a
    long-overdue email!  Look for it soon! LOL

    And to others who replied personally to one of my
    earlier posts, thanks for your input. I'll be getting
    back to you.

    Yours in Radio Land,
    Dave Phaneuf

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 15:14:00 -0400
    From: "mike kerezman" <PHILIPMARLOWE@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  CD TO DVD

    Someone asked:

>     I am wondering if several individual CDs encloded with mp3 files could be
>     copied to a DVD, which would allow multiple cds on one DVD to be played on

    a

>     DVD player or computer DVD drive the same as if they were individual CDs
>     containing far fewer files. Am I expecting too much, with MP3s playable

    only
    >from CDs and not DVDs. On the face of it it would seem possible and would

>     allow multiple CDs to be backed up on DVD and cut some of the filing

    clutter.

>     If possible, are there any pros and cons to keep in mind?

    Yes its possible. A friend just sent me 900+ SUSPENSE shows on two DVD+Rs.
    The Problem I've run into is getting your stand alone DVD players to
    recognize them. Its seems a lot of DVD players and HOME THEATER SYSTEMS have
    trouble recogizing DVD burned as DATA DISCS. I've found some of best DVD
    PLAYERS at recognizing DVD DATA discs (w/ mp3s on them) are the Cheap ones
    like APEX or NORELCO brands sold at your local WAL MART for around $[removed]
    My MOM just bought a EMERSON DVD+VCR ALL IN ONE PLAYER the other day that
    will NOT READ DVDs burned as DATA DISCS. My PHILIPS HOME THEATER won't
    recognize them either but my cheap NORELCO DVD PLAYER does.   The [removed] x DVD
    burners (like mine) take around 18-20 minutes to burn a
    DVD filled with OTR in MP3. Some of newer drives are a little faster.

    Mike Kerezman
    Macomb, OK

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 15:14:11 -0400
    From: "mike kerezman" <PHILIPMARLOWE@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Kitty's Employer

>     TIME magazine featured an article about radio's GUNSMOKE in the early 1950s
>     and someone involved with the creation of the show blantly admitted that
>     Kitty was a "prostitute" and used the very word when asked what her
>     profession was.  Forget the exact issue and quote but that was confirmed.
>     MG

    Actually this article was quoted from in John Dunning's first book on OTR
    called TUNE IN FOR YESTERDAY (1976) on Page.  260. The article referred to
    is from TIME Magazine (1953) where Norman MacDonnel in a Time interview says
    ""We Never say it, but Kitty is a prostitute, plain and simple"

    Mike Kerezman
    Macomb, Ok

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 15:14:25 -0400
    From: "Garry Lewis" <glewis@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Kitty was a prostitute

    While this may be historically accurate and the intent of the
    author/scriptwriters, I doubt that the censors would've allowed it. To
    portray this oldest profession in a "favorable light" was against the
    rules.
    Besides I think, given what we heard, she would more likely be a Madam with
    a house/saloon of working girls.

    Yours rounding up the chickens on the ranch,

    Garry

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 15:14:58 -0400
    From: <otrbuff@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Page droppers

    I'm not doubting what anyone didn't witness in studios in some places
    concerning page dropping.  But I watched the sheafs of script pages dwindle
    on the live half-hour portion of the Grand Ole Opry fed to NBC as the cast
    littered the floor with 8-1/2x11 sheets.  Out of a four-and-a-half-hour
    show, only that half-hour was scripted and rehearsed.  Everything else was
    totally loose without benefit of paper anywhere.  I even heard the order for
    performers on the non-NBC portions was often written on the back of an
    envelope.  When the curtain came down for a few moments at the end of the
    NBC portion, boys with brooms came out and swept up the paper.  The live
    audience could still see paper being picked up when the curtain went up on
    the next portion, carried only by WSM.  So that did happen somewhere.  It's
    not just a theory.

    Jim Cox

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 15:15:21 -0400
    From: "Brian L Bedsworth" <az2pa@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Re: Phil Harris

    Allen Wilcox <aawjca@[removed]; asked:

>     When was the last recorded live Jack Benny show and
>     how long did the reruns play?

    The last regular "fresh" Benny show was broadcast 22 May 1955, though there
    was a one-hour Christmas program of new material the following year.

>     Did CBS run the shows even when Jack went to television?

    Though reruns ("Best Of Benny") continued on CBS radio until 1958 (and, ever
    since, in syndication), Jack began broadcasting on television in 1950; for
    several years, the Benny program could be seen on television =and= heard on
    radio. Jack's television program was never a weekly broadcast during the
    radio era, though, so [removed]

>     If so I gues you might have been real lucky to hear him on radio one
>     night then to see him and the gang on tv.

    When Jack settled into his bi-weekly television schedule, the program was
    broadcast at 7:30 Eastern; you didn't have to be lucky to hear him, you just
    had to have a set and know which week he was on TV to be able to hear his
    radio show, then immediately watch his television program.

>     By the way, did Phil Harris join Jack on his tv program? I know that
>     the rest was there, but I did not know about Harris.

    Phil appeared occasionally on Jack's earlier, irregularly scheduled TV
    forays but, by the time the Benny televison program had settled into its
    bi-weekly regular schedule, Bob Crosby had taken over as the show's
    bandleader. In later years, however, Harris guested several times on the
    regular Benny TV show as well as his late-career variety specials.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 15:26:47 -0400
    From: "MICHAEL BIEL" <mbiel@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Re: Page Dropping

    Lois Culver informed us:

> > >     The only page-dropping I saw was on the "pretend"
> > >     radio shows which showed up on TV later.

    At FOTR a year or two ago, there was a re-creation performed by a talented
    high school group, who's only fault was that they were dropping their
    script pages.  Even when they were sitting in the background waiting for
    their turn at the microphones they were dropping their pages.  When the
    show was over and everyone wanted to go up and congratulate them, these
    poor kids were down on their hands and knees retrieving their script pages.
    Ten minutes later they were still grouped together trying to complete their
    scripts by trading off pages to get the ones with their markings.
    Immediately after the production I was able to get to the lead performer
    before he started to hunt up his pages and told him that the performance
    was great except that you should never drop your pages.  He said that they
    had been wondering about that.  SOMEONE that morning had told them during
    their run-thru that they should be dropping their script pages if they
    wanted to be authentic.  They debated this idea among themselves for a
    while, but finally unfortunately figured that that guy, whoever he was,
    knew more than they did, so they did it.  They were quite relieved to now
    find someone else who could reliably tell them that the other guy was
    crazy.

> > >     I never saw ONE person drop a page during all the time
> > >     I sat in on radio show reheasals.

    When script dropping was first discussed a few years ago, I mentioned that
    you couldn't rely on rehearsals to be your evidence because the scripts
    would be needed for the performance, whereas the scripts could probably be
    trashed after the performance itself unless there was to be a repeat.
    Although this might seem to mean that they could drop pages during the
    performance, actually it doesn't, because it would be unlikely that the
    performers would all be doing something as basic as this differently for
    rehearsals and performances.  If you don't drop them during rehearsals you
    wouldn't drop them during performances.

    From: "Alan R. Betz" <arbetz@[removed];

> >     My mother and father told me that they attended the taping of a Bing
> >     Crosby program in San Francisco in the very early 50s. His sons were
> >     guests on that show. They said that script pages were dropped on the
> >     floor and that they picked up a few.

    Sounds like either Bing's kids were grandstanding for attention, or that
    you might have misunderstood what your parents were saying and that they
    had picked up script pages that had been discarded after the program ended.

     From: "B. J. Watkins" <kinseyfan@[removed];

>     As for the script dropping myth, we were talking about this one day
>     in my radio drama group, and one who used to work in Canadian
>     dramatic radio said that they used to do that because the scripts
>     were on onion skin paper (or something like that). I was amazed.
>     Barbara

    YIKES!!!  I'm amazed too, because ONLY AN IDIOT would type a script on
    onion skin paper!  Not only does this stiff rough paper make too much
    noise, it would confuse reading because the pages below can be seen thru
    it.  One of the first things ALL script writers or typists were taught was
    to used paper that was opaque and soft.  Erasable paper was popular back in
    the 60s when I was being taught radio production, but we were specifically
    told that we would not be allowed to use it because it was noisy.  As for
    the Canadian situation, should somebody have shown up in a studio with
    scripts prepared on onion skin paper, dropping the pages would not help the
    problem of its transparency because the next pages are the ones that are
    showing thru, not the previous pages.  Having crinkly paper on the floor
    would be worse than having soft paper.  And having a packet of paper in
    your hand is actually quieter than having only one or two sheets.

    For recent subscribers to this digest, this was a topic that was forcefully
    fought out a number of years ago.  But never fear, Hal and I will enter the
    fray any time somebody thinks that dropping scrip pages is a good idea.
    (Until Charlie gets nauseous, that is.)

    Michael Biel   mbiel@[removed]

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 15:34:18 -0400
    From: "mike kerezman" <PHILIPMARLOWE@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Gunsmoke Revisionism

>     The law has been on the run from revisionists
>     since the trashed 1968 Chicago convention which liberals hold up as a
>     great moment in history. The television series seemed to run out of
>     gunsmoke somewhere around that time.  Let's hope it wasn't because they
>     were up against the Monkees and Rowen and Martin's Laugh in.

    I agree mostly with those desiring to keep generalized political statements
    offlist. The one thing that sticks in my mind is Suzanne and Gabor Barbas
    book GUNSMOKE: A COMPLETE HISTORY (McFarland, 1990) seemed to make a point
    (If I remember right) that the Anti-violence movement in 1960s in reaction
    to the TV show THE UNTOUCHABLES had sharp effect on GUNSMOKE on TV. The
    above mentioned Gunsmoke book tried make the point that Gunsmoke on TV
    became a "Western soap opera" in the Soap opera sense emphasizing the main
    characters relationships in an effort to tone down the violence in order to
    survive the growing political atmosphere at odds with the show. Barbas makes
    reference at one point to threatened action by certain members of Congress
    if I remember right - its been several years since I read this book. Barbas'
    book mentioned the opening of the TV show changed to reflect this by
    emphasizing a series of portraits of Doc, Chester, Miss Kitty, and Mr
    Dillion. Gone was the long shoot out opening. Mr Dillion appeared usually
    only at the end with the bulk of the program set aside for the guest star.
    . My late father listened to first GUNSMOKE shows on Radio "Billy the Kid"
    (1952) while he was in High School. I remember my father telling me that
    after GUNSMOKE on radio did the 1953 show "The Pierceville Hostage" an
    exceedling bloody episode, that the show's violence had to be toned down for
    at least thats the way my late father remembered it. My Father I recall also
    remembered a episode in which Mr. Dillion and Chester trail some bankrobbers
    who kidnap Miss Kitty during a holdup and take her to a cabin. In the end,
    Mr Dillion and Chester having been hiding in woods outside for hours use
    their rifles and shoot down the two outlaws when they come outside in the
    morning without giving them chance for a "fair fight". This is for my money
    closer to Real West when you read about what a lot of people people in
    Tombstone thought about the Earps and other "good guys".

    Mike Kerezman
    Macomb, Ok

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 15:35:39 -0400
    From: Ron Sayles <bogusotr@[removed];
    To: Olde Tyme Radio List <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  7-14 births/deaths

    July 14th  births

    07-14-1880 - Donald Meek - Glasgow, Scotland - d. 11-18-1946
    actor: "Lux Radio Theatre"
    07-14-1898 - Pat C. Flick - Philadelphia, PA - d. 11-1-1955
    actor: Pablo Ittheptiches "Fred Allen Show"
    07-14-1901 - George Tobias - NYC - d. 2-27-1980
    actor: "Cavalcade of America"; "Screen Guild Theatre"
    07-14-1903 - Ken Murray - Nyack, NY - d. 10-12-1988
    comedian: "Hollywood Hotel"; "Texaco Star Theatre"
    07-14-1904 - Annabella - La Varenne Hilaire, Val-de-Marne, France - d.
    9-18-1996
    actress: "Lux Radio Theatre"
    07-14-1909 - Isabel Jewell - Shoshone, WY - d. 4-5-1972
    actress: "Dr. Kildare"; "NBC Presents: Short Story"
    07-14-1910 - Boris Aplon - Chicago, IL - d. 11-27-1995
    actor: Ivan Shark "Captain Midnight"
    07-14-1910 - Gloria Stuart - Santa Monica, CA
    actress: "Suspense"
    07-14-1911 - Terry-Thomas - London, England - d. 1-8-1990
    Free lance comedian
    07-14-1912 - Woody Guthrie - Okemah, OK - d. 10-2-1967
    songwriter, singer: "Pursuit of Happiness"
    07-14-1914 - John Laing - NYC - d. 5-15-1979
    announcer: "Great Gildersleeve"; "Sealtest Variety Theatre"
    07-14-1915 - Jerome Lawrence - Cleveland, OH - d. 2-29-2004
    cbs staff writer: "Frank Sinatra Show"; "Doris Day Show"; "Kate Smith Show"
    07-14-1917 - Douglas Edwards - Ada, OK - d. 10-13-1990
    newscaster: "Wendy Warren and the News"
    07-14-1923 - Dale Robertson - Harrah, OK
    actor: "Lux Radio Theatre"
    07-14-1926 - Harry Dean Stanton - West Irvine, KY
    vocalist: "Suspense"; "Lux Radio Theatre"
    07-14-1927 - John Chancellor - Chicago, IL - d. 7-12-1996
    newscaster: WMAQ Chicago, NBC; "Voice of America"
    07-14-1928 - Nancy Olson - Milwaukee, WI
    actress: "Lux Radio Theatre"; "Dimension X"
    07-14-1930 - Polly Bergen - Knoxville, TN
    actress: "MGM Musical Comedy Theatre"

    July 14th deaths

    08-08-1907 - Benny Carter - NYC - d. 7-14-2003
    saxaphonist, songwriter (Professor) "Chamber Music Society of Lower Basin
    Street"
    08-24-1900 - Preston Foster - Ocean City, NJ - d. 7-14-1970
    actor: "NBC University Theatre"
    09-05-1910 - Kenny Delmar - Boston, MA - d. 7-14-1984
    actor: Beauregard Claghorn "Fred Allen Show"; Commissioner Weston "The Shadow"
    11-11-1892 - Al Schacht - NYC - d. 7-14-1984
    sportscaster: ( The Clown Prince of Baseball) "Al Schacht's Sports Show"
    --
    Ron Sayles
    Milwaukee, Wisconsin

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 16:05:47 -0400
    From: "kclarke5@[removed]" <kclarke5@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Any Game Shows

    I'm interested in purchasing any game shows (the year,
    particular game show doesn't matter).  If anyone knows
    where I can get hold of any, contact me by e-mail
    at kclarke5@[removed].  If your price is reasonable,
    you just might have a customer.  All that I ask is that
    the sound quality be such that I can hear the entire
    program without having to adjust the sound all the time.

    Always interested in radio,

    Kenneth Clarke

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 19:07:16 -0400
    From: howard blue <khovard@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Radio Spirits boxed sets for sale

    I still have some boxed sets --all-new in original wrappers--(CDs and/or
    tapes) from Radio Spirits which I can offer at discounted prices.
    Please contact me off-line if you're interested for prices etc.:

    a.  The Shadow
    b. Radio's Greatest Sitcoms
    c. Bob Hope
    d. Suspense
    e. Hollywood Stars
    f. Gunsmoke
    g. Kings of Comedy
    h.  Too Hot for Radio

    Howard Blue

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 19:07:56 -0400
    From: Udmacon@[removed]
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Uncle Dave Macon Cuts from the NBC "Grand Ole
     Opry".

    For us fans of the WSM Grand Ole Opry's first superstar, Uncle Dave Macon,
    the Holy Grail has arrived. It's a nine CD set of every available recording
    ever made of the "Dixie Dewdrop," but most important to OTR fans, there's a
    30 cut CD that features virtually all of his appearances on the Prince Albert
    NBC portion of the Opry, from the late 30s and early 40s.

    I have no personal financial interest in this box, and it's available on the
    German Bear Family label, BCD 15978JCM, and comes complete with a
    magnificient hard cover book written by Tennessee country music authority
    Charles Wolfe. Of course many photographs of Uncle Dave on the Opry are
    featured, some never before in print.

    [removed], Amazon and Barnes & Noble are some of the sites that have
    this item.

    Hot dog!!

    BILL KNOWLTON: "Bluegrass Ramble," WCNY-FM ([removed]) Syracuse, WUNY ([removed])
    Utica; WJNY ([removed]) Watertown NY. On the web: [removed]. Sundays: 9 pm to
    midnight EST (since 1973)

    --------------------------------
    End of [removed] Digest V2004 Issue #230
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