Subject: [removed] Digest V2003 #13
From: "OldRadio Mailing Lists" <[removed]@[removed];
Date: 1/10/2003 8:45 PM

To: <[removed]@[removed];

    ------------------------------

                                The Old-Time Radio Digest!
                                  Volume 2003 : Issue 13
                             A Part of the [removed]!
                                     ISSN: 1533-9289

                                     Today's Topics:

      Re: Sound effects                     [ hal stone <dualxtwo@[removed]; ]
      Jimmy Dudley                          [ "Don Frey" <alanladdsr@[removed] ]
      Re: Paid Admission                    [ Elizabeth McLeod <lizmcl@[removed] ]
      CBRRMT "Sunrise to Sunset"            [ Philipmarus@[removed] ]
      Bob Maxwell                           [ "JLF" <infom@[removed]; ]
      Opry admission charge                 [ "rcg" <revrcg@[removed]; ]
      Re: Literature on Radio               [ passage@[removed] ]
      Re: OTR Stereo                        [ "MICHAEL BIEL" <mbiel@[removed]; ]
      otr stereo                            [ "Mark Kinsler" <kinsler33@[removed] ]
      date on Jack Benny show               [ "Walden Hughes" <hughes1@[removed]; ]
      Perry Mason Movie                     [ "Roby McHone" <otr_alaska@[removed] ]
      Parley Baer on Radio                  [ William Brooks <webiii@[removed]; ]

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 10:08:50 -0500
    From: hal stone <dualxtwo@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Re: Sound effects

    Dan Dunfee asked a lot of questions about sound OTR effects.

>     I'm interested if someone could discuss the art of making the sound effects
>     which are such a central part of otr.

    I'm sure we will hear from fellow Digester and former SFX Man Bill Murtough
    on this subject.

>     Were some of them recordings, such as the sound of car enjines reving up,

    braking [removed]

    Yes.

>     Did the actors watch the sound effect people to coordinate dialog with their

    activity, or the other way round;

    Mostly the latter, sometimes the former.

>     or could they even see each other?

    For sure! It was very necessary for coordination. I can describe in detail a
    typical goof if the dumb actor wasn't paying attention. Let's use an
    incoming phone call as an example. The telephone "ring" was handled by a
    little black box, containing a battery, a bell, and a little button. The
    director would "throw" the cue to the SFX man for the precise moment he
    wanted the phone to start ringing. The SFX man would press the bell button
    the number of times the director wanted it to ring, (determined during
    rehearsals), then he'd pick up the receiver. That sound was made by an
    actual old fashioned table telephone with a headset resting in a "Cradle".
    The sound of the headset "clicking" as it was removed from the cradle always
    signified the phone was picked up, and the ringing stopped or was
    interrupted.

    If the Dumb actor wasn't paying attention, he might say "hello" before the
    sound of the receiver being removed from the cradle. See what I mean? :)

    A polished OTR performer kept one eye on the SFX man, and the other on his
    script. But if he couldn't remember his next line was to say "Hello", he was
    really dumb. In that case, the director might tell him to watch the control
    room, and he'd also throw him a cue when to say "hello". :)

>     When we hear such things as doors closing, are they full size doors or just
>     scaled down pieces with latches [removed]

    Depending on the sophistication of the SFX departments (particularly at the
    Networks) mostly full size, but sometimes scaled down versions.

>     When we hear people speak as though from a distance did they stand away to
>     make the effect or were their mics just turned down?

    Distant dialogue was almost always determined by the actors moving further
    away from the microphone, Usually indicated in the script with the notation
    (off mike) since other performers were usually "on mike" at the same time.

    However, SFX were not always that mobile, and SFX mikes were in fixed
    positions, so the audio engineer, or SFX man would work in concert to make
    the effect sound "distant".

>     How were reverberant sounds as though in a very large space
>     created, mic and speaker in a bathroom?

    Usually done by the audio engineer, (varying degrees of "Echo" could be
    added on the audio console, or by use of "Filter booths".

>     I have always assumed almost all the music was live, but was perhaps some of
>     the oft repeated parts, such as openings, recorded?

    In the early days of OTR, most of the music was live. But eventually, cost
    cutting, particularly for the non "primetime" lower income generating day
    time programming, organ music was played by a "live" organist.

    Even the Archie Andrews show was initially broadcast using a live 8 piece
    studio band.

>     For any recorded effects, how did they keep the record free from ticks and
>     pops and other such distortions?

    By very carefully handling it. Usually, a master of the effect was kept on
    file, and copies made for normal everyday use.

>     Who chose what and how effects were done?

    The writer would indicate in the script when and where an effect was needed.
    The Director would make notations as to a specific type of sound ("Heavy"
    rain storm, "very loud" thunder clap. "Huge" explosion, etc. or be creative
    and add "sounds" if he felt it enhanced the situation.

    Sometimes the Director would utilize a SFX check list, and this "want list"
    would be sent to the sound department, to the "Attention" of the SFX man
    regularly assigned to the show. (It was important to have the same SFX man
    assigned, for purposes of continuity, and one that the Director liked
    working with. The SFX man could always contact the Director ahead of time if
    he wanted further clarification of a type of sound needed. That SFX man
    would then "pull" from the record stacks any recorded sounds called for, and
    also assemble carts laden with hand held objects that might replicate the
    sounds required. Ahead of the rehearsal, or program, the studio "set up"
    people (like stage hands in the legitimate theatre) would wheel into the
    studios the Big "doors", "window sash's", etc, that were constructed on
    dollys. SFX men (the good ones) very very creative, and could be depended
    upon to read the script and come up with the sound that would work best.

>     It seems that just as with other such things, quality varied.  Some of the
>     effects were too intrusive and drew attention to themselves, not unlike
>     visual
>     effects often done apparently just to show them off.

    I'd blame the director in those instances. During rehearsal, if a director
    was not particularly happy with an effect that was pulled in advance by the
    SFX man, he could request something different, and the SFX man could arrange
    to either have it delivered, or get a new one during a break.

>     Are there any web resources which might discuss these things?

    I can't answer that. But I can suggest you buy my book. :)

    I tell about how Sound effects were handled during my OTR days, show a
    diagram of a typical studio setup, the placement of the Microphones, and the
    relationship of the sound effects area to the performers. See the website
    below if your interested.  :)

    [removed]

    Hal(Harlan)Stone
    Jughead

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 22:31:01 -0500
    From: "Don Frey" <alanladdsr@[removed];
    To: "otr message" <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Jimmy Dudley

    Thanks to Barbara Watkins for her comments on Jimmy Dudley. I went to
    college with his son, Doug, and began listening to him then (In Ohio from
    1955-59) I thought he was THE voice of the Indians until those on the digest
    told me of other voices. I've always been a Chicago baseball person. Anyone
    know anything about Bert Wilson who did the Cubs in the late 40's early
    50's? And do you remember those baseball recreations that Bob Elson used to
    do (and others I'm sure) in Chicago?

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 22:32:09 -0500
    From: Elizabeth McLeod <lizmcl@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Re: Paid Admission

    On 1/9/03 5:07 PM OldRadio Mailing Lists wrote:

>     The 2nd edition of "The Big Broadcast, 1920-1950" by Buxton/Owen states that
>     "The National Barn Dance" which debuted from Chicago Sept. 30, 1933 on NBC,
>     was one of the few radio shows to charge admission.

    In fact, paid admissions to the National Barn Dance were a major source
    of revenue for WLS thruout the 1930s -- the program itself actually dated
    back to the 1920s before Miles Laboratories placed an hour-long segment
    on NBC. Paid admissions were instituted in 1932 because the program was
    *so* popular that there simply wasn't room enough to accomodate the
    crowds wanting to see their favorite performers in person. Between 1932
    and 1939, paid attendance for the Barn Dance totalled more than 770,000
    at 75 cents a head -- at a time when a first-run movie ticket could be
    had for 50 cents (or even a quarter for the balcony). That's over
    $580,000 in total revenue over seven years -- or more than $82,000 a
    year. Not a bad contribution to the WLS bottom line -- and evidence that
    the Barn Dance was one of the great cash cows in 1930s local radio.

    There were also cases of paid admissions being charged for programs and
    the proceeds going to charity. When Ed Wynn took his Broadway revue "The
    Laugh Parade" on tour thru the East and Midwest during the fall of 1932,
    he put on his regular Tuesday night Texaco Fire Chief broadcasts from the
    theatre stage in each city, charging admission for each performance. The
    money was then turned over to local charities seeing to feeding the
    unemployed and homeless -- and given that the latter months of 1932
    marked the absolute rock bottom of the Depression, with unemployment in
    excess of 25 per cent and no Federal relief programs in sight, this
    gesture was very much appreciated.

    The two "Mystic Knights of the Sea Friday Night Minstrel Show" broadcasts
    put on by Correll and Gosden in December 1936 were also run on a
    paid-admission basis, with the proceeds from the December 4th broadcast
    donated to the Harlem Community Fund, and those of December 11th going to
    the American Lung Association on behalf of the annual Christmas Seals
    campaign.

    Elizabeth

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 22:32:19 -0500
    From: Philipmarus@[removed]
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  CBRRMT "Sunrise to Sunset"
    X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative
    X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain

     I have just finished listening to the CBSRMT episode "Sunrise to Sunset". I
    realize not all shows of CBSRMT hold up, but I myself found this particular
    program quite good. It is of course a Vampire tale but not Dracula for those
    have not heard it. I found William Johnston in a supporting role adds so much
    to the show. In addition the script had seemingly gothic quality to it that
    reminded me of Bram Stoker's original novel. There were several allusions in
    it to vampire folklore and the "old country" that gave it this quality. I
    became curious as to writer of the script but upon hearing the script writer
    it was no one I recognized. I have re-listened to it twice and have been
    unable to determine where or when the story takes place. It led quite
    naturally to come up with a list of Vampire tales on Old Time Radio

    1. "DRACULA" - MERCURY THEATER ON THE AIR
    2. "THE UNDEAD" - INNER SANCTUM
    3. "THE VAMPIRES DESIRE" - HERMIT'S CAVE
    4. "THE MARQUIS OF DEATH"  - HALL OF FANTASY

    This leaves out New Time Drama such as 7 part "DRACULA" (1984) and "DRACULA"
    on CBSRMT.

    Any further additions would be appreciated. I'm sure overlooking a lot.

    Mike Kerezman

      *** This message was altered by the server, and may not appear ***
      ***                  as the sender intended.                   ***

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 22:32:39 -0500
    From: "JLF" <infom@[removed];
    To: "[removed]" <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Bob Maxwell

    Bob Maxwell also did a program with Garry Moore for Joan Franklin called
    "The Mighty memory Mobile". They typically took a year at a time and played
    appropriate songs and news (both hard & soft) for two hours.

    JLF

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 22:33:33 -0500
    From: "rcg" <revrcg@[removed];
    To: "Otr Digest" <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  Opry admission charge

    I was just on the website for the Grand Ole Opry and saw that they are now
    charging an admission fee of anywhere from $[removed] to $40, depending upon the
    location of the seats. The prices are the same for all four Opry shows, two
    on Friday and two on Saturday.

    The current owners of the Opry have really changed the show. In their
    attempt to modernize the program and go after that, inevitable, "younger"
    audience, they have dismissed several of the older staff musicians and have
    severely limited the number of yearly appearances of many of the older and
    legendary Opry members. Some of these performers such as Charlie Louvin,
    Dell Reeves, and the Sonny Osborne have been quite outspoken in their
    bitterness about the situation.  All of this has resulted in quite a few
    empty seats at every performance and the loss of some longtime radio
    sponsors. A few of the 30 minute segments are, essentially, sustaining so,
    to save face, they claim that the segments are "brought to you" by The Opry
    Scrapbook, or The Opry 2003 Cruise, etc. If Martha White ever leaves them,
    it's all over for the Opry.

    With so many empty seats to fill I don't know how they are able to charge
    such a high admission fee. I guess it's another example of the old saying
    that Barnum was [removed]

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 22:33:45 -0500
    From: passage@[removed]
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Re: Literature on Radio

    Hi All,

>     Much as I like OTR, they did miss the boat in a lot of areas.
>     For instance, it seems to me that when books were adapted
>     for radio it was almost always because they were already
>     popularized in the movies.

    Maybe in general, but there were some significant exceptions.
    Check out World's Great Novels.  They adapted books in any
    where from 2 to 6 30-minute episodes.  They did Les Miserables
    in 6 episodes in 1945, War and Peace in 6 episodes, Vanity
    Fair in 4 and a whole lot of others.  World's Great Novels
    went on to become NBC University of the Air, which stuck to
    1 hour adaptations.  Then there's NBS Short Story which brought
    over 120 short stories to radio.  IMHO, it seems to me adapting
    a short story to radio seems like a natural.  Of course, the
    BBC is still doing multi-episode adaptations.

    Frank

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 22:34:23 -0500
    From: "MICHAEL BIEL" <mbiel@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Re: OTR Stereo

    Cnorth6311@[removed] responded to Tom Barnett thus:

> >     I vaguely recall a few occasions wherein a TV station would send
> >     out a stereo broadcast via the TV audio and a "friendly" AM or FM
> >     station. It probably was PBS Channel 13 and WNYC or WQXR.

    From: John Mayer <mayer@[removed];

>     I remember this being done before there was such a thing as PBS. ....
>     Stereo music was a novelty then - perhaps stereo record players
>     were just being marketed and this was, in part, to promote the
>     concept. Such event were well publicized and listeners were
>     instructed as to which channel/station combination to tune to
>     and how to position your radio and television for best sound.

    I've discussed this here in the past.  There were some instances of radio
    programs being broadcast in stereo on  AM and FM stations as early as
    WMAQ's 1953 local radio series "New Dimensions."  Then in 1956 the entire
    season of Lawrence Welk's TV program was broadcast in stereo nationwide,
    while Art Ford had a local jazz program on WNEW-TV broadcast weekly in
    stereo.  These used the affiliated radio stations for the other stereo
    channel.   On October 28, 1958 there was a special edition of The George
    Gobel Show that was broadcast nationwide in stereo and color sponsored by
    RCA Victor which had recently started marketing their Living Stereo LPs but
    had been selling stereo pre-recorded tapes for almost 4 years.  (TV Guide
    had a fold-out that week that you would put on the lower half of your TV
    screen at an announced time to supposedly show the difference between what
    you were seeing on your black and white set and what the rich folks were
    seeing on their color sets.  I've always wondered if those who had color
    sets also did it and if they were surprised to see how little the colors
    probably matched!!)  By that time WRCA/WRCA-FM were doing nightly stereo
    broadcasts at 10:05 PM "Jazz, Voices, and Strings."  In 1959 ABC telecast
    Disney's Sleeping Beauty in three channel stereo using the TV for the
    center channel with the AM and FM affiliates supplying the left and right
    channels.  Many companies were selling tuners with separate tuning knobs
    for the AM and FM sections to make this procedure easier.  You'll see these
    in electronics catalogs between 1958 and the introduction of multiplex
    stereo in 1962,

>     I don't recall which shows, but likely shows might have been the regular
>     Met opera broadcast with Milton Cross announcing, the Voice of Firestone,
>     the Bell Telephone Hour, and the Longines Symphonette.

    Even though programs like "The Voice of Firestone" were simulcast on radio
    and TV in the late 50s, I do not recall ever hearing that these were done
    in stereo, and they have not been mentioned in any of the contemporary
    newspaper articles that discussed some of the above programs.  The PBS/NPR
    efforts discussed yesterday were from the late 70s to mid 80s, but by then
    the stereo was totally on the radio station, not split between the radio
    and TV stations.  Once the current system of TV stereo audio was
    authorized,  FM-stereo simulcasts became moot.  The last one I recall was
    when the Disney Channel did a series of Prairie Home Companion simulcasts
    in the late 80s before they were stereo on their cable channel.  The Met
    may have gone stereo when it was moved over to WQXR-FM from WOR-FM in the
    mid-60s.  But again, it was not a dual-station type of stereo.

    [removed] McGregor's "Heartbeat Theatre" was in stereo from the mid 1960s
    although this fact was not marked on the disc labels!  Thus many of them
    have probably been dubbed off only in mono.

>     BTW, as to why musical shows are not more popular among collectors,
>     well, mp3's aren't helping. . . . Bad sound quality is easier to overlook
>     in a drama or comedy.

    True, but the good wideband hi-fi sound that is present on many of the
    original discs can enhance the enjoyment of drama and comedy also.

    Michael Biel  mbiel@[removed]

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 22:34:39 -0500
    From: "Mark Kinsler" <kinsler33@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  otr stereo

    Re: broadcasting in stereo with AM on the right and FM on the left.

    This was done in Cleveland several times, I believe with live broadcasts of
    the Cleveland Orchestra.  My old man would swipe my little AM radio and set
    it up on a chair in the living room.  His home-brew FM set was tuned to (I
    think) WDOK, and the AM set was tuned to probably WJW.  I don't know what my
    father thought of the stereo effect, but I sure wasn't impressed much.  I
    was maybe twelve, and wasn't impressed by much.

    Much later in my career, I had a stereo repair shop.  Occasionally one of
    those giant tube-type receivers would come in.  Made by Kenwood or
    Lafayette, generally, these things would have maybe twenty tubes and were
    about 18" square.  One of their features was utterly puzzling to me until I
    recalled the Cleveland Orchestra broadcasts.  There were two tuning
    dials--one for AM and the other for FM.  And there was one setting that
    would allow you send the signal of an AM station out of the right speaker,
    and the signal of an FM station out of the left speaker.  So apparently the
    practice of AM/FM stereo was considered fairly viable at one time.

    The theory was that you could obtain a good stereo effect even if the
    frequency range of one channel wasn't as high as the other.  A number of
    engineering studies supported this theory, I believe--a technology based on
    it showed up in quadraphonic disk recordings twenty years later.

    M Kinsler

    who thinks mono is perfectly fine

    512 E Mulberry St. Lancaster, Ohio USA 740 687 6368
    [removed]~kinsler

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 22:34:48 -0500
    From: "Walden Hughes" <hughes1@[removed];
    To: <[removed]@[removed];
    Subject:  date on Jack Benny show

    Hi Everybody, a person ask me to find him a copy of a Jack Benny show where
    Jack pick up a old guy who was a fullback for either UCLA or USC football
    team for the Rose Bowl.  Does any one have an idea of the broadcast date of
    that show, in order I can check my files?  Take care,

    Walden Hughes

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 22:35:25 -0500
    From: "Roby McHone" <otr_alaska@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Perry Mason Movie

    Ivan G. Shreve, Jr. thought I might have made a mistake in my posting about
    a Perry Mason movie, where I said that Perry drank a deadly poison, in
    court, to get his client off.

    He wrote:

>     Are you sure this is from one of the Perry Mason films made by Warner
>     Brothers in the thirties?  The reason I ask is, it sounds suspiciously like
>     the plot for a 1932 film called "The Mouthpiece."  That film was also a
>     Warners product, and starred Warren William as the attorney--I think you
>     might have confused it with a Mason film because William played the part of
>     Perry in several of those Warner Brothers films.

    OK, Ivan, you caught me.  You are right, the movie I described was "The
    Mouthpiece" from 1932 where Williams played a lawyer.  I dug out some old
    video tapes and found it.  It was on a tape with the Perry Mason mystery
    "The Case of the Curious Bride", guess I mis-remembered which was which.  By
    the way, The Mouthpiece" has one of my favorite secondary actors in
    [removed] Kibee.
    Youse guys are too smart for me.  Thanks for the correction.

    Roby McHone
    Fairbanks, Alaska

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 22:35:46 -0500
    From: William Brooks <webiii@[removed];
    To: [removed]@[removed]
    Subject:  Parley Baer on Radio

    Ted was looking for a list of radio appearances made by Parley Baer
    on radio. No one knows how many thousands of shows he was in, Parley
    himself didn't know, but for a staggering example of shows in just
    one mans collection go to ([removed]). This is the site from
    Dave Goldin. Once in the site click on "search by actor". This will
    give a good idea of just how busy a good radio actor could be. Notice
    also that on several dates Parley was on more than one show in the
    same day. This was a very usual occurance. Like many good radio
    actors Parley would do 3, 4, sometmes 5 shows in a day. Parley was
    one of the very best actors, and one of the most loved men in the
    business. It was my very great honor to have know him, and lord how I
    miss him.

    Bill

    --------------------------------
    End of [removed] Digest V2003 Issue #13
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