Subject: [removed] Digest V2002 #193
From: "OldRadio Mailing Lists" <[removed]@[removed];
Date: 5/30/2002 7:22 PM
To: <[removed]@[removed];

------------------------------


                            The Old-Time Radio Digest!
                              Volume 2002 : Issue 193
                         A Part of the [removed]!
                                 ISSN: 1533-9289


                                 Today's Topics:

  Interesting Website                   [ "James Gray" <jgray4@[removed]; ]
  RE: Commercial products               [ "Steven C. Thoburn" <scthoburn@comc ]
  Lew Parker on radio?                  [ bloodbleeds@[removed] ]
  Re: using old OTR advertised product  [ Ga6string@[removed] ]
  Lum and Abner                         [ Mark Justice <markjustice@[removed] ]
  Ebay, OTR, And Away We [removed]           [ "[removed]" <swells@[removed]; ]
  DVD/MP3 Player Recommendations        [ George Guffey <grguffey@[removed]; ]
  Toshiba MP3 Update + Minidiscs        [ Musiciantoo47@[removed] ]
  Postings                              [ William L Murtough <k2mfi@[removed]; ]
  Random follow-up thoughts             [ Derek Tague <derek@[removed]; ]
  Re: Something for Nothing?            [ Elizabeth McLeod <lizmcl@[removed] ]

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 17:08:10 -0400
From: "James Gray" <jgray4@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  Interesting Website
X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative
X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain

I found this really interesting website of video archives.  Oh I know, we are
all into old time radio, but one of the video's called "Back of the Mic" from
1938 gives an insider's view of the 1930s radio studio showing the production
of dramatic sound effects.  There are about 1000 videos archived there that
might prove to be of some interest to all of us.  I'm gonna go watch "Behind
Your Radio Dial" from 1947.  If you wanna join me go to
[removed]
The videos are listed in alphabetical order so you shouldn't have any trouble
finding the shows I mentioned.  [removed] Gray

  *** This message was altered by the server, and may not appear ***
  ***                  as the sender intended.                   ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 18:18:53 -0400
From: "Steven C. Thoburn" <scthoburn@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  RE: Commercial products
X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative
X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain

How many people on this list are using products because they heard a
commercial on an old time radio program?

I've been on a "Chandu The Magician" kick lately, and have the strangest
compulsion to run out and buy some "White King" soap.

Steve

Arlington (soon to be Charlottesville) Virginia

  *** This message was altered by the server, and may not appear ***
  ***                  as the sender intended.                   ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 18:19:19 -0400
From: bloodbleeds@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Lew Parker on radio?

Does anyone have any pre-Bickersons radio credits for Lew Parker? He did a lot of stage 
work, but I'm curious if he did any radio before the 1951 Bickersons series. 

Thanks.

The Great Gildersleeve book
[removed]

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 18:19:36 -0400
From: Ga6string@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Re: using old OTR advertised products

I love some of the vintage commercials. As we've discussed before, if Roma
Wines were still on the market, I'd buy some! And how about those ads for
Pabst Blue Ribbon, "best beer [removed] anywhere!" OK, OK, I'm not rushing
out for PBR, but if I were, you could credit it to that old ad. And Wildroot
Cream Oil too, although I don't know what I'd do with it, given that I've
mostly outgrown my hair. :^) I'd also buy Lux soap and Signal [removed] And
lest we forget that Fitch's "saponified" coconut oil shampoo? Who could
resist?
Take care,
Bryan Powell

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 18:20:11 -0400
From: Mark Justice <markjustice@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Lum and Abner

Thanks to all for the Lum and Abner information. One more question: Is there a
definitive book on L&A? Or *any* book on L&A?
Mark

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 18:25:33 -0400
From: "[removed]" <swells@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  Ebay, OTR, And Away We [removed]

I would have to side with Harlan on the costs issue. Many people don't
realize that this is not a cheap hobby. I, like many others, have spent
countless, and countless amounts of time, energy, and a mountain of money in
this hobby of ours. I had the same issue come up on the Lum & Abner set I
produced. I heard later that some people got upset about the price, but I
would hope when I explained what I had invested in it, that they would have
some understanding.
The transcriptions on Ebay are something to watch. Things get crazy, that's
for sure. Actually, I have debated this issue a while and I decided that I
am going to offer some of my [removed]'s as well, some pretty rare, and
uncirculated material. I have to get them all recorded onto open reel and
then re-record them digitally before I let loose of them. I want to have
them preserved in atleast two recording formats first! :-)
As for the gentleman who wanted some reels, I maybe able to help you out. I
have a few hundred that I am willing to part with. These are my originals,
not copies.
Shawn

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 18:45:32 -0400
From: George Guffey <grguffey@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  DVD/MP3 Player Recommendations

In issues of the "Digest" published during the last
six or seven days, a number of people have asked for
advice on buying an MP3 player. At least three
different responders have recommended the DVD/MP3
player they currently own. Their recommendations have
taken roughly the following form: "So far my Brand X
has played every MP3 I have thrown at it."

At first glance, these reports would appear to be as
helpful as they are intended to be; but before buying
one of these recommended players, we should ask the
following question: "Specifically what have you been
throwing at your player?" Or to put it another way,
"What were the encoding bitrates of the MP3 files your
player successfully handled?" For lovers of OTR this
is, as I will try to make clear a little later on, a
very important question.

First, let's briefly consider the subject of MP3
bitrates. The agreed-upon standard bitrate is 128 kbps
(at [removed] kHz). This bitrate results in recordings that
approach the quality of standard audio CDs. The lowest
bitrate generally considered usable is 32 kbps. This
bitrate results in recordings that are of AM radio
quality. The sound is somewhat "tinny," and various
kinds of artifacts ("whomping" or "popping" sounds)
are sometimes heard.

How is all this applicable to OTR? As an example, take
my experience with the Sony CFD-S40CP Boombox
(purchased for $129). The most unusual feature of this
player is that it has a built-in audio cassette tape
deck that allows the user to make a standard audio
cassette recording from an MP3 CD file being
played--very useful for anyone who wants to make a
tape recording of a favorite OTR show for a relative
who doesn't have a way of playing MP3 files. The Sony
CFD-S40CP also receives AM/FM radio broadcasts.

Unfortunately, although the sound reproduction quality
of my Sony CFD-S40CP is outstanding, it will
satisfactorily play very few of my OTR MP3 files. Why?
Because the Sony CFD-S40CP was apparently not designed
to play MP3 files with bitrates much lower than 128
kbps. When I try to get it to play one of my OTR
discs, a number of negative things can happen. For
example, it may start to play a given OTR show and
then jump to the beginning of the next show on the
disc. Or, it may play the first minute or so of a show
and then jump to the last five minutes of that show.
Sometimes it even refuses to play any part of a given
show at all.

If I ask my Sony CFD-S40CP to play a standard audio CD
or an MP3 file encoded at 128 kbps or higher, it does
so beautifully. What bothers me most is that in none
of the advertisements I saw for the Sony CFD-S40CP and
nowhere on the box that contained it was there any
indication of the range of bitrates it could handle.
Only when perusing the last page of the Manual that
accompanied the player in the box I brought home from
the store did I come upon the following statement: "To
compress a source for an MP3 file, we recommend
setting the transfer bit rate of the compression
software to '[removed] kHz,' '128 kbps,' and 'Constant Bit
Rate.'" If only this information had been available to
me at the store!

Just before beginning to write this message, I
randomly checked the bitrates of approximately a dozen
files on one of my "Lum & Abner" mp3 CDs. (An easy way
to check the bitrate of a file is to play the file in
question on a computer using Winamp; the bitrate of
the file being played is indicated in a kbps field
near the top of the Winamp window.) For the encoding
of the "Lum & Abner" files I checked, the following
different bitrates, all of them relatively low, had
been used: 24 kbps, 32 kbps, 48 kbps, and 64 kbps.

Now, an owner of a Sony CFD-S40CP might be asked, "How
good is your Sony player?" If the owner had thus far
used it to play only MP3 files with bitrates of 128
kbps or higher, he or she might truthfully and
accurately answer, "So far it has played every MP3 I
have thrown at it." If, on the other hand, the owner
had thus far used it to try to play only MP3 files
with bitrates of 48 kbps or lower, he or she might
reasonably answer, "So far it's not played my files
very well. I'm frustrated and disappointed with it."

This is not to say, however, that I think the DVD/MP3
players recently recommended in issues of the "Digest"
can't play very low bitrate MP3 files. I have never
tried the players recommended and therefore have no
idea what their bitrate capabilities are.

I have been told that a few stores will allow
customers to try their MP3 discs out on store demo
players. If a store doesn't allow such testing, one
should ask to look at the Manual that accompanied the
relevant out-of-the-box player on display. If a
salesperson promises a potential buyer that a player
in question can handle all MP3 discs, the customer
should request that this capability be guaranteed in
writing.

I suspect that none of the MP3 players in existence is
capable of playing satisfactorily *all* of the OTR MP3
files currently available. An unfortunately large
number were created on underpowered computer systems
or on computer systems that were multi-tasking at the
time the MP3 files were being burned. Such conditions
can lead to ugly audio artifacts. However, some of the
players I own handle very well almost all MP3 files
with bitrates ranging from 32 kbps to 320 kbps.

At one time, OTR lovers mainly listened to programs
stored on tape. Today, most collectors--especially
collectors new to the field--are using CD compilations
of MP3 files. Many sorely need reliable information
about the capabilities of the various MP3 players
currently on the market. Recommendations that specify
not only brand names and model numbers but also
bitrate capabilities are the most helpful kind.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 18:46:59 -0400
From: Musiciantoo47@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Toshiba MP3 Update + Minidiscs
X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative
X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain

Continuing to experiment with bitrates I have determined that the lowest
bitrate that the Toshiba unit will play OTR comfortably with is 40kbps. 96 is
fine of course, but Hopefully the 40 will serve the same purpose while
allowing me to also record more programs to the disc. I'm used to having
anywhere from 50 to 100+ programs on one disc and unfortunately that won't be
possible within the limitqtions of the Toshiba. However, I hope that I have
reached a happy medium. Thanx to everyone who helped me & gave advice.

Also, regarding Minidiscs, it's true that they were meant to be a step up
from cassettes and they serve That purpose well, and more. However, I have
Two full size units, both Sony. The first one, the MD-501, was their top of
the line when I bought it in 1995. I have a few pre recorded discs and some I
made myself so I sill have the unit in my main system.  I Still have blanks I
haven't used. I never use it for recording anymore because a few years ago it
developed a problem where it won't record an entire disc without "Error"
popping up and screwing up the recording (among a few other minor electronic
glitches.) I haven't bothered to get it fixed ($[removed] flat rate) since I now
burn CD's. And, the Second Sony unit I bought about 2 years ago, was
practically Brand New when it started its malfunction. Whereas the 501 is a
strong, heavy, well built solid brushed Metal, the other unit is a light
cheap plastic. I purchased it from Fingerhut as a second unit for the
bedroom. Not long after I got it the Loading mechanism screwed up on it and
wouldn't eject. So I had to send it in for repair with the disc still in it.
I sent it to the reccomended service center and it came back still broken. I
sent it in Again (free shipping) and it came back still broken Again. And
during the Second time it was in repair the warranty ran out on my extended
service plan. Fingerhut then refused to honor the warranty, even though the
machine had never been repaired to begin with and was still under warranty at
the time I sent it in. YET, Fingerhut Still wanted me to make payments on the
thing. They even ADDED money to what I owed, completely Overshadowing all the
money I had already paid. I wrote letters to Fingerhut and Sony, but to no
avail. I still get phone calls from Fingerhut but I just tell them straight
out, it's broken, I tried to get it repaired, it Wasn't, and you don't want
to honor the warranty. So you are NOT getting any more money and I am never
buying anything else from you - end of story. Opinions & comments surely
welcome.

  *** This message was altered by the server, and may not appear ***
  ***                  as the sender intended.                   ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 19:52:03 -0400
From: William L Murtough <k2mfi@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Postings

First in regard to Mutual. Many stations that were under contract with
one of the major networks (NBC-Red; NBC-Blue; and CBS) also subscribed to
Mutual, which was mutually owned by it's subscribers. WOR in New York was
the key station.

As to WLW operating at 500,000 watts, they were doing it illegally. They
were actually licensed to operate at that power only on an experimental
basis, meaning after midnight and non-commercial. However,they operated
full time at the power. For some unexplainable reason, the FCC ignored
the situation.

I was surprised to note that someone knew of the "WLW Line" This was an
[removed];T. circuit between WHN in New York and WLW. It came about due to the
fact that their sports guy, Red Barber, had a commitment in New York, and
WLW wanted to continue his commercial sports program. Consquently it was
fed from a WHN studio. Although I do not remember the situation, we may
have fed some of our many dance band remotes on it. Also I doubt if we
took any of WLW's excellent dance remotes as there would have been added
expense to reverse the line and it  was most likely was on an hourly
charge basis (per hour/per mile). WLW's dance remotes were terrific as
they hung an extra mike from the ceilings getting a "roomy" sound. (they
made their own mikes) One I remember was from the ":Netherland Plaza".
Another was from a night spot across the river in Kentucky. They paid
their engineers, who worked previously in the Crosley factory,  only
about $[removed] per week, promising that they could get experience to get a
good paying job elseware. However their announcers did better getting
about $[removed] Durwood Kirby, who had worked there, told me that his
father, who was a farmer in Indiana, was annoyed that his son could be
making such a big salary. At one time when I thought that I would like to
return to my native Ohio I contacted Chief Engineer Rockwell who I knew.
He discouraged me , saying that I wouldn't want to work there. I think
the FCC finally caught up with WLW's illegal operation and put a stop to
it.

A lot of well known radio talent did get their start at WLW. The singing
group "The Merry Macs" came from there, as did Mutual announcer, Tom
Slater.

Bill Murtough

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 19:53:17 -0400
From: Derek Tague <derek@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  Random follow-up thoughts

Jell-O Again, Everybody:

    Eric J, Cooper wrote how he finds himself being partial toward OTR-era
advertised products. I know how he feels: the only reason I've ever bought
Barbasol shaving cream was because of Singing Sam, the Barbasol Man.
    For all you TV-trivia aficianados: both TV versions of the DRAGNET
"Big Little Jesus"/"The Christmas Story" feature a different TV sitcom family
kid playing the altar boy.  In the 1950s version, the altar boy is played by
Billy Gray, who also played "Bud" Anderson on TV's "Father Knows Best." In the
1960s      version, this same role was essayed by Barry Williams
who played Greg Brady on "The Brady Bunch."  Incidentally, the priest--Father
Rojas--was played in both TV versions by the OTR Digest's own
Harry Bartell.
    I believe the Dick Cavett/Remember When program re: OTR is available for
viewing at NYC's Museum of Television & Radio (MT&R). In NYC, it's located at
the  palindromic 25 West 52nd Street, next door to the fabled
"21 Club."
     I don't know if it's still available, but  for years now, I have seen a
fair-conditioned copy of Tony Wons's "Tony's Scrapbook" at one of my favourite
used bookstores   The Old Book Shop [note the unaffected name--it's not "Ye
Olde Book Shoppe"], 4 John Street, Morristown NJ. I don't remember the postal
code or the phone # off-hand.  Ask for Virginia or Chris.
     If olympic skater Tara Lapinski married jazz musician Sun Ra, divorced
him & married Richard Boone,
divorced him & married Mister District Attorney, she'd be:
"[removed]"

Yours in the ether,

Derek Tague

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 20:55:44 -0400
From: Elizabeth McLeod <lizmcl@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  Re: Something for Nothing?

Eric Cooper wrote:

OTR is
alive for a lot of people like me because of wide, low cost circulation
by whatever means.

This, to my way of thinking, is the most important service an
organization like the First Generation Radio Archives provides. I've been
involved with the organization myself for over two years as a transfer
technician, and have seen a great deal of material come thru that quite
simply would not have been available had not the Archives made the effort
to acquire the discs -- and I think it's important to emphasize that this
material *is* being made available. Anyone who wants to hear it need only
join the Archives and take advantage of the library rental program.

Some might think the Archives is taking an elitist attitude by requiring
as a condition of membership that the materials not be "freely
distributed" by trading or Internet posting -- but think about it for a
moment. As Harlan has pointed out, discs cost money -- and so does the
equipment to properly preserve them. That money has to come from
someplace -- and since there aren't too many Eccentric Millionaires
lining up to fund radio preservation efforts, that money has to come to a
considerable degree from membership fees and library rentals.

To put it in brutally simple terms, if someone posts Archives materials
for free distribution By Any Means Necessary -- every person who
downloads them is a person who *won't* be sending in membership dues or
renting materials from the Library. And eventually, if the Why Buy The
Cow When You Can Get The Milk Thru The Fence attitude builds up enough
momentum, the revenue stream dries up completely and the organization
simply can't survive -- and a great many rare discs don't get dubbed or
distributed *at all.* It doesn't get any more basic than that.

Elizabeth

--------------------------------
End of [removed] Digest V2002 Issue #193
*********************************************

Copyright [removed] Communications, York, PA; All Rights Reserved,
  including republication in any form.

If you enjoy this list, please consider financially supporting it:
   [removed]

For Help: [removed]@[removed]

To Unsubscribe: [removed]@[removed]

To Subscribe: [removed]@[removed]
  or see [removed]

For Help with the Archive Server, send the command ARCHIVE HELP
  in the SUBJECT of a message to [removed]@[removed]

To contact the listmaster, mail to listmaster@[removed]

To Send Mail to the list, simply send to [removed]@[removed]